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Former Google+ UI Designer Suggests Inept Management Played Role In Demise (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Morgan Knutson, a UI designer who seven years ago, spent eight months at Google working on its recently shuttered social networking product Google+ and who, in light of the shutdown, decided to share on Twitter his personal experience with how "awful the project and exec team was." It's a fairly long read, but among his most notable complaints is that former Google SVP Vic Gundotra, who oversaw Google+, ruled by fear and never bothered to talk with Knutson, whose desk was "directly next to Vic's glass-walled office. He would walk by my desk dozens of times during the day. He could see my screen from his desk. During the 8 months I was there, culminating in me leading the redesign of his product, Vic didn't say a word to me. No hello. No goodbye, or thanks for staying late. No handshake. No eye contact."
He also says Gundotra essentially bribed other teams within Google to incorporate Google+'s features into their products by promising them handsome financial rewards for doing so atop their yearly bonuses. "You read that correctly, "tweeted Knutson. "A f*ck ton of money to ruin the product you were building with bloated garbage that no one wanted." Gundotra is today the cofounder and CEO of AliveCor, maker of a device that captures a "medical grade" E.K.G. within 30 seconds; AliveCor has gone on to raise $30 million from investors, including the Mayo Clinic. Asked about Knutson's characterization of him, Gundotra suggested the rant was "absurd" but otherwise declined to comment. Knutson goes on to paint "a picture of a political, haphazard, wasteful and ultimately disappointing division where it was never quite clear who should be working on what or why," reports TechCrunch.
He also says Gundotra essentially bribed other teams within Google to incorporate Google+'s features into their products by promising them handsome financial rewards for doing so atop their yearly bonuses. "You read that correctly, "tweeted Knutson. "A f*ck ton of money to ruin the product you were building with bloated garbage that no one wanted." Gundotra is today the cofounder and CEO of AliveCor, maker of a device that captures a "medical grade" E.K.G. within 30 seconds; AliveCor has gone on to raise $30 million from investors, including the Mayo Clinic. Asked about Knutson's characterization of him, Gundotra suggested the rant was "absurd" but otherwise declined to comment. Knutson goes on to paint "a picture of a political, haphazard, wasteful and ultimately disappointing division where it was never quite clear who should be working on what or why," reports TechCrunch.
I thought he was supposed to save Google+ from itself?
I feel like the next hundred comments could each mention a different issue that played "a role" in google+'s demise.
I'll start: Invite-only rollout.
This guy might be right, but he's also a huge narcissist. This guy thinks he shits gold
That's a good question but I suspect the answer is "never" and the real story hidden beneath this facade of incompetence is whatever crimes Gundotra was committing that he was afraid this guy would find out about if he got involved too much in decision making.
My Google+ account that I pretty much never use because Google+ sucks so badly... still works. What do they mean by "shuttered" ? I've seen no articles about that.. only seen it mentioned right here in this article.
What, did Twitter up its character limit again?
How do you get to be in management and ruin shit? Not give a crap? Be shitty to other people? What?
I'm bored of being a techie and given enough bonuses and golden parachutes I could be an utter asshole too.
What happened to Google+ is what your company will end up with if you hire Indians.
You hire ONE Indian, he or she will hire MORE, and when MORE and MORE Indians infested your company, they start to act like THEY ARE YOUR MASTERS
They will employ FEAR and SNOBBERY like what Vic Gundotra had done, treating AMERICAN (or any other non-Indian colleague) like SHIT
I have been in companies which were infested with Indians, I know what I am talking about !
Google, Microsoft, Oracle are now lead by Indians. Wait for their demise, soon.
During the 8 months I was there, culminating in me leading the redesign of his product, Vic didn't say a word to me. No hello. No goodbye, or thanks for staying late. No handshake. No eye contact.
This is how I deal with all UI/UX designers. Best not to engage them unless you're up for a tedious conversation revolving around their unsubstantiated opinions.
I hate to second guess people in bad situations, but from my reading through his few hundred tweets earlier today I would say a few points jumped out to me as him doing the wrong thing at the time:
1) Should not have agreed to design review meeting the next morning. If a deadline is totally unrealistic, don't agree to it man. Tell them you need to delay It by whatever makes sense. If they hate you already they will not hate you any more or less because you push back.
2) When report of grandmother dying comes in, drop everything and send a message out noting you need a reschedule and why. If they say no, well wouldn't it be great to go to HR with a complaint that a manager would not let you attend to a dying nana? Regardless urgent family matters ALWAYS come first for anyone you care about.
3) When meeting was called off the next morning do not whine about that to whoever. Just roll with it. It would have been irrelevant anyway if the first two points I made had been followed. As it was it led to an HR complaint and since it made you look weak the people that hated him tried to take advantage and treated him even worse after.
4) If you are put under a manager you know "will not end well", GET OUT ASAP. Maybe finish up some important task you have but start figuring out your exit immediately, because you will be exiting anyway and better to do it while you have endured minimal stress.
Again, I know I was not in the situation at the time, but there is no situation I've ever been in where point 1 or 2 could not be followed all the time without repercussion. You should always always push back on very unreasonable things and not just pretend you can meet them, even if sometimes you can. Anyone worth working for can understand reasonable pushback, so if they can't you needed a new job anyway.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I like Google+. I felt they really botched the roll-out when they had lots of excitement, but didn't have features for businesses and such. They had one shot at taking out Facebook, and they completely messed it up. I don't see anyone else having enough credibility to convince people to move to another platform, no matter how better it may be.
It seems like a common theme at companies like these is that people are paid enormous salaries to perform trivial tasks at far below their skill level. Yet for some reason Google or Facebook on your resume makes people seek you out.
There is more talent and skill in the average small company than in 99% of Google and other big tech.
I know that when I look at resumes and I see either
1) An inflates title at a company that is selling out our privacy and becoming an arm of the surveillance state
2) A hungry employee looking for a leg up, coming from a small company where every decision is life or death for the bottom line
I pick 2 every time.
Google on the resume? NO HIRE
And who is to blame for gnews nonsense ?
More than one year has past and it's still impossible to sort by date!!!
I guess nobody use it @ google
They realized that we all have different circles we are willing to share different stuff in.
It'd be interesting to hear other hindsight perspectives on why it failed, as their premise was correct. It'd be amazing if the fail was mostly down to one bad exec - I'd believe it, but that'd make it the execs bosses who f'd up, hiring him and then not managing him well or out.
Why put Trump in prison when you have APK hosts engine APP, moo
In another man's anus.
He is a faggot
Did you get that feeling in the interview? Was this a surprise?
Did you feel the same way about Immigrants before this experience? How has it changed your outlook?
Orange man bad
They have gone through the transition from a small, cool, outwardly facing start up to a huge bureaucratic, inwardly facing monster. Happens to all successful companies.
The Damore memo incident is a good indicator of this. Not because I care about Damore but because it gave a rare insight into the thinking and priorities of Google's CEO.
Alphabet was a good idea as a way to try to escape it. Not sure whether it will succeed.
Breaking news - large bureaucracy has psychopathic narcissist climber as mid level boss - film at eleven tonight
Out of curiosity is this a large company or a small one? Big tech? Medium? Startup?
So you're telling me...a company with the resources of Alphabet/Google were unable to put together a viable social platform but Second Life is still a thing?
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
We thought that no company could as despicable as Microsoft, but you guys seem to be getting there pretty quickly.
What's Google+?
TFS makes me think of how Google+ was rolled out to people ... Essentially by shoving it up their asses.
I remember having to fend the goddamned thing off with a stick, because Google was suddenly saying "we have this new social media, you will use it whether your want to or not, we will make it impossible to use anything else without this piece of this social media, but we'll also publish your full name on the internet for you so every random site sees who the fuck you are all in the interests of openess and ad revenue".
Google+ was just suddenly embedded in everything and forced on you. Never mind that I don't want social media and have no fucking interest in using my real fucking name to identify myself to random websites.
Sure, I'd buy that the asshole who rolled out Google+ would be the douchebag described in this summary. He showed about as much consideration for the users.
I think this sums it up nicely.
There's a lot of stereotyping here. Some of it is true, some is not. The truth is that there are some Indians who act that way, but also many Indians who do not. When you find the Indian who thinks he is superior to everyone else you should look around and notice that other Indians try to shun that person as well.
A key personality type here that may start the stereotype is the Indian manager who is too agreeable and refuses to say "no" when asked if something can be done. Not all Indian managers are this way but enough of them are that many people know an example. This means if the project is impossible then the Indian manager will claim they can do it then turn around and drive the workers nuts trying to get it done in time. I know many Indians who say they would prefer not to work for an Indian manager.
The problem was that they brought in a UI designer, and those guys can fuck up just about anything.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
I copied my misspelling from an AC post I was replying too, who managed not to copy it correctly from a previous post where he had actually already quoted the correct spelling. It's properly Vic Gundotra.
Just what is it about AC that shaves off 30 IQ points, as a general starting point?
In any case, my post was entirely my own. My bad.
Superfag Ken Doll will very soon find out that there are real world consequences for incessant lying.
TFS title should've read: "Former Google+ UI Designer Suggests Corrupt Management Played Role In Demise". Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by even more malice, or sumpthin' like that.
Donald J TRUMP drank all my beer!!
I support Trump.
Look everybody - a butthurt weakling is making vague threats to try to shut down free debate!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, internet tough guy, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Googledouches are paid such ENORMOUS salaries that they can often afford to rent their very own studio apartment - no roomates! - with only a 4 hour round trip commute. Those tech bros sure are overpaid!
If all the knob ends know how to do is futz a design on a sidebar all day then they probably deserve to live a 4 hour round trip from the office. The only shame is that it takes them six figures to do that.
Yet more reason to pass on FaceGoogle employees: outsized pay expectations relative to the rusty crusty skill set.
“Vic Gundotra .. ruled by fear and never bothered to talk with Knutson, whose desk was "directly next to Vic's glass-walled office”
Sounds like one of my former managers who used send me directives by email even though he was sitting right next to me.
tldr = Google are becoming the new Microsoft.
Ultimately, you hire people from Microsoft and other large companies (plus MBA's etc), and you act surprised when your company behaves like these large companies? What happened to the community of enthusiastic developers like "the old days"?
Remember when Microsoft were being praised for being a "little startup" that took down IBM? look what they became..
Someone should come up with a name for the cycle of - company produces good product and grows; "management" get brought in to improve profits; product suffers. users jump to a new product developed by a different company. this company grows and brings in "management" to improve profits.....
You can tell Google have been infiltrated by morons because a) They have hired ex-Microsoft employees; b) they listen to these idiotic UX "experts" and have gotten rid of vertical scrollbars; because everyone needs to know gestures now as gestures are so much more intuitive than something you can see on a screen...
A personal rant about Google here (tl;dr Google software is becoming as much as a pain as MS software) - I do the IT for a School and Google are getting just as user hostile as MS ever were. Their attitude is now "what we want matters more than what the users want" (Google got big by providing what users wanted, and Microsoft is getting smaller for ignoring this - e.g. MS browser share is now 3%. 3%! can you imagine that 15 years ago?).
I ended up recommending Bing to my users a few months ago because Google kept prompting users to fill in a Captcha every time they did a search - which sounds fair enough but a Captcha involving picking street signs, 10 - 15 times, for each page of search results? Is that the best they can come up with?
Our Proxy IP address was showing "Bot-like activity" - I have checked our logs for evidence of malware or other bogus searches (found none) - I can see how a thousand searches an hour for "Fortnite Skins" seems like bot activity, so I can't criticise them for this too much - but why isn't there any human support where I can inform them that we are a school and our search profile might be different? our IP address is even on an educational-only ISP.
Instead you just get to an FAQ telling you to run a virus scan because their algorithms are never wrong, never mismatch search patterns; basically they do not care.
Ultimately it is their software, their servers and they can do what they want. Such it is that I can also switch our default search provider over to Bing, and inform my users that Google software is basically just as bad as Microsoft software.
120 characters should be enough for anybody
BUT, and this is a huge, service-destroying BUT, dear god did that fucking site do its best to annoy users and drive them away. Every time I went to use the thing it would annoy me with interstitials - Add more information about yourself! Invite your friends!etc. Then after skipping those to get to my feed there would be permanent embedded nag panels telling me to link, add info etc. I very much doubt the programmers decided to do this, but management / marketing did. I'm not surprised to learn management for the product was dysfunctional.
So anyway, I stopped using it.
Twitter and Facebook have their own annoyances, Facebook especially likes nagging but two points apply here a) Facebook's nagging is still not as annoying as Google+, b) why is Google copying the worst aspects of its competitor anyway? They should have just thrown it out there, ad-free, nag free and let it grow at its own pace. People would hang out there, treat it as a personal space without all the dissonance reminding them that it's not. Google could still no doubt scrape up information / usage under the surface so why even go this route?
This guy sounds like an asshole with an axe to grind, honestly. Nobody completely in possession of their rational faculties writes a Twitter thread that long. If I got this in an email, I would read about a quarter of it, realize the author is crazy, and put them in my spam blocklist.
Google+ was nice initially. It had rough edges, but all the excitement of GMail back when you needed an invitation to get an inbox. Of course it was Facebook that had the critical mass, so adoption was slow-but-steady at first - unfortunately Google didn't have patience for the "slow" part. When they started aggressively trying to force it on users of any Google service (along with Buzz and Google Accounts) that alienated most of the people who had originally been enthusiastic about it, while failing to bring along new supporters to replace those they lost.
I've been a software developer for almost 30 years and I can certainly attest that incompetent management is one of the leading causes of project failures and management is almost always a limiting factor on the success or potential of projects. Unnecessary constraints and top-down decisions with a lack of understanding is what it seems to be, in my experience. I don't think that is only about software projects, though. I think it's endemic in business... probably more so in larger organizations.
Sometimes it can also be dirty business. Once I was even blamed by my manager after successfully doing everything he asked me to do, all the while lightly noting that I didn't think it was going to work the way he suggested it would. Later I heard that toward the end, he was making me look incompetent in meetings I did not attend. In private, he gave me all kinds of praise and even when he let me go, said he'd be a strong reference for me.
I remember signing up on Google Plus when it was invite only, but mostly because I thought the hangout idea was cool. I liked the idea that you could chat/talk with friends and watch a youtube video as a group.
I then proceeded to never use that feature, and my google + experience was uploading a picture and saying I was testing Google + out.
Giving this kind of data to Google is even worse than giving it to Facebook. The fact that Google are absolutely lacking in ethics or anything resembling the ability to innovate (and apparently, self-awareness. Hysterical that they are trying to create software that emulates what they so clearly lack themselves) might have had just a wee bit to do with it.
I have a G+ account that's not me (which wouldn't have been allowed at their ill-advised rollout requiring real names) and I use it a LOT. It's all the stuff I don't want linked to me but I want to post. Facebook is for cat pictures and memes.
When I heard they were shutting it down I decided to start a Blogger blog so that I could continue to post. And get some formatting in the darn things but that's another story.
Unfortunately there's no way to simply move your G+ posts to Blogger posts. Since the basic format is the same you would think that doing so would be a minimal effort. Nope. The best way to do it is to export your G+ posts in HTML format then copy-paste each one into a new Blogger post.
This means the dates are hopelessly screwed up since everything shows it being posted with the current date.
I'm working through six years of posts and doing Control-C, Control-V over and over and over and over. I'm only through 2012 so I might see if I can work some magic to convert these to some kind of XML Blogger will recognize and maybe even get those original post dates in there since the G+ export has them.
I'm not surprised to see G+ bite the dust. I'm more annoyed they didn't provide any kind of reasonable method to even move to one of their own products.
Was Orkut shut down to support Google+?
Was is a just/smart decision really?
What were the reasons for the decision really?
... No goodbye, or thanks for staying late. No handshake. No eye contact. ...
I work in Dilbert's world -- that is, a standard cube farm. There is a very small number of non-cube offices in my building; one of them has a printout taped on the window, with the stereotypical business man type meme which is captioned, "One of my annual holiday traditions is to come out of my office and acknowledge cubicle people."
In over a year working here, I've never even seen the occupant of that office in his office... so I honestly can't be certain if the meme is posted entirely in jest or not.
'Vic" also wasn't his real name. Hypocrites gonna hype.
Remember how they killed the + operator in google search because + might confuse people with google plus? What a great idea.