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eBay Files Lawsuit Against Amazon Over 'Seller Recruitment' (bbc.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the come-to-the-dark-side dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from BBC: EBay has filed a lawsuit against Amazon, accusing the U.S. retail giant of using illegal tactics to recruit sellers. It says Amazon representatives abused eBay's internal email system to contact sellers -- a violation of the marketplace's policies. Amazon declined to comment on the case, which follows a letter from eBay demanding an end to the activity. It had previously said that it was investigating the claims. In the lawsuit filed in Santa Clara County, California, eBay says Amazon representatives created eBay accounts to solicit sellers, often sending messages within minutes of setting up their profiles. The activity dates back to at least 2015 and involved dozens of Amazon representatives, who each sent hundreds of emails, it says. EBay was alerted to the issue a few weeks ago by a seller and asked Amazon to stop.

38 comments

  1. Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a customer, I prefer Amazon over eBay. Better protections and faster.

    As an honest seller, I prefer Amazon over eBay. The commission is a little less, but the seller security is better.

    I didn't need any recruitment email for that. I used everyone I could and the FREE MARKET decided for me.

    1. Re:Whatever.... by kaka.mala.vachva · · Score: 1

      Sure, but that isn't what this lawsuit is about. It sounds like eBay is accusing Amazon of using eBay resources to lure sellers away from eBay. Amazon is alleged to have created eBay accounts to do this, which is a violation of eBay's policies. If Amazon had setup a big board on 101 encouraging sellers to move from eBay, that might be okay - but eBay may have a case here.

    2. Re:Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the FREE MARKET decided for me.

      You sound like you've got an invisible hand up your ass.

    3. Re: Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their policies are meaningless and carry no force of law

    4. Re:Whatever.... by kiddailey · · Score: 1

      I'll second the "Whatever.."

      I signed up on eBay in 1997, had occasionally bought and sold many times over the years and accumulated a long history with positive feedback and reliable payment.

      Tried to log in again a few months ago to buy sell a few things and discovered they had deleted my account with no warning. No explanation from customer support, who refused to help and repeatedly told me that it was "impossible" to recover my account. Can't imagine that I'm the only one.

      Done and moved on.

    5. Re: Whatever.... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It's a unilateral contract, but not entirely without force of law.

    6. Re:Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see Amazon is still astroturfing.

      https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/08/24/1740207/amazon-warehouse-envoys-rally-to-tweet-upbeat-comments-about-working-conditions

    7. Re: Whatever.... by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 1

      The recourse for violating the terms of an online account are generally limited to forfeiture of the account or an overall ban from the service.

    8. Re: Whatever.... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Next step is to abuse the CFAA to claim that it's unauthorized computer breach since it's a violation of terms.

    9. Re:Whatever.... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      So what though. Please stop, no, disconnect. New account, please stop, no, disconnect. Just the reality of business, try suing Amazon, they can counter sue because you are acting in a prejudicial manner against the individuals you kick off.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    10. Re: Whatever.... by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      Their policies are meaningless and carry no force of law

      What are you talking about? Courts have upheld TOS in the past. Probably runs afoul of the Computer Fraud & Abuse Act as well. You can't use someone else's computer system, in violation of their policies, to contact their customers.

      This isn't a case of Amazon emailing Ebay sellers from outside. This lawsuit alleges that Amazon created Ebay accounts and then contacted sellers from within the Ebay system.

      That's bullshit. I don't care if you are pro/anti Ebay, there's no way a reasonable person would think that it's okay to use your competitors resources, without their consent, against them.

    11. Re:Whatever.... by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      So what though.....try suing Amazon, they can counter sue because you are acting in a prejudicial manner against the individuals you kick off.

      Yo... Genius, that's exactly what's happening. Ebay is suing Amazon.

    12. Re:Whatever.... by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

      Ebay can be better than Amazon. With Amazon, you have to hold off on placing an order until you reach $25 worth of items in your cart to get free shipping. Ebay frequently has the same $5-10 items with free shipping and no minimum order. From what I've read, Ebay also has buyer protection that sellers hate, since they always side with the buyer.

    13. Re: Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The free market is only free until a monopoly takes over and pretty soon EVERYTHING you RENT is owned by the company store. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

    14. Re: Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And limited to the forfeiture of the asset in question, the account.

      Nothing to see here move along.

      I'm sure Amazon's lawyers will put a summary motion infront of the court and have it dismissed, before it gets off the ground, even assuming Paypal can prove Amazon was behind the accounts in question.

    15. Re:Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ebay also has buyer protection that sellers hate, since they always side with the buyer.

      Not always. I got ripped off once. Post office delivered it to the wrong box (I have one of those fucking cluster boxes) and my neighbor stole it. eBay and the seller made me file the insurance claim. Turns out it was under insured, so I lost $100, but that took months and it was too late to complain to Ebay or to even rate the seller down for under insuring it. Now, when I get someone else's package in my mailbox, I don't deliver it to them anymore. I take it to the post office and talk to a manager about it. And I don't buy from eBay at all.

    16. Re:Whatever.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still buy from them occasionally, but won't sell anymore since a customer at one point claimed they never received a package (despite postal tracking saying it was delivered) and ebay decided that meant they got a refund. I looked into the delivery address after, and it was a property for sale with nobody living in it, and one of the former occupants (not the addressee) had died recently in another state. Email correspondance with the customer claimed they were still living at the property, and made all sorts of statements regarding my dishonesty, etc.

      It wasn't actually an expensive item, but I had sold 2 expensive items in the prior month (albeit with signature confirmation), and the whole thing scared me to sell anymore. I told eBay exactly this, but I don't they cared.

  2. Ebay doesn't own it's sellers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This sounds like a bunch of bunk to me.

  3. Waaaaah, waaaaah, competition! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, so shut down their accounts if they violated the rules. It's not like most sellers can't be contacted without using the eBay system anyway.

  4. Amazon wanted to be Ebay... by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

    With the current state of their 'marketplace', well now I view them in the same way as Ebay. Mostly a junk shop. Amazon used to be my first stop, now it's the last resort. Congratulations!

  5. That word "policy"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    a violation of the marketplace's policies.

    Once again, a company's "policies" carry zero legal weight. All they can do is deny those individuals use of Ebay's services. There is no legal requirement to follow "policy", any more than Amazon has to follow my policy of selling me everything at a 99% discount.

    1. Re:That word "policy"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By 'policy' they're referring to the terms and conditions you agree to when signing up for an account. If those have no legal weight then it's not possible to have a contract with any online or mobile entity. Basically any commercial activity using the internet would fall apart and abusing any computing resources to do/get whatever you want would be legal. In USA, breaking those terms is often considered a federal crime (since you're now using those computing resources in an unauthorized manner).

      eBay is saying Amazon created multiple eBay accounts then used them to advertise discounted services to eBay sellers through the PM system. If true, it effectively means Amazon 'hacked' eBay to send spam. Advertising other services on eBay is strictly prohibited by the ToC. People get tossed in jail for changing URL parameters around, Amazon did more than that and did it for financial gain.

  6. Forgive my cynicism, but... by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    This seems to me like a shouting match between streetwalkers, with each one screaming that the other is a "Ho".

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  7. Ebay and sellers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If eBay had bothered to take care of their sellers, instead of shafting them all these years, it wouldn't be a problem.

    Oh well.

  8. Impolite perhaps, but unlawful? Maybe afterward by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I'd be interested to read the suit to see exactly which law eBay is cutting to make this unlawful.

    You mentioned "so shut down their accounts". Perhaps after eBay shut down the accounts for this reason and notified them, they kept setting up new accounts with fraudulent info. In a way that's reminiscent of trespassing, I suppose. A store can kick you out, providing clear notice, and coming back in after receiving notice is trespassing.

    1. Re:Impolite perhaps, but unlawful? Maybe afterward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, for one, they are spamming eBay users with unsolicited messages. Just replace "Amazon" with "email spammer" if that helps you understand the issue.

  9. Streissand Effect ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    Really Ebay should have just amended their TOS and then memory holed emails from Amazon's accounts.

  10. Re:eGAY, GAYpk has the solution for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Glad to see you're trying to be a bit more concise, apk.

  11. Note to eBay by jrumney · · Score: 0

    Your T&Cs are not law. Please do not abuse the word "illegal" like this.

    1. Re:Note to eBay by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      The TNCs aren't law, but violating them and continually accessing the servers is "computer fraud and abuse" and illegal. Just like if you keep sending random usernames and passwords. The law doesn't distinguish those two types of acts... and if you think about it, it's hard to draw that line.

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    2. Re:Note to eBay by jrumney · · Score: 1

      The TNCs aren't law, but violating them and continually accessing the servers is "computer fraud and abuse" and illegal.

      This is a dubious legal argument which is hinted at in an earlier article linked by the article: "might fall foul of Californian laws governing reasonable access to computer systems". This is especially dubious where the alleged fraud and abuse is using a feature of the website for sending messages to the seller to ... send messages to the seller.

  12. It's worse than this - one contacted me by slashmydots · · Score: 2

    I had someone from amazon buy something from my ebay store specifically to get my phone number from my paypal account then he called me on the phone to try to recruit me to sell on Amazon. Talk about creepy and going way too far. Amazon is the worst monopoly abuser, especially with their recent Prime nonsense, in the history of the world.

    1. Re:It's worse than this - one contacted me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope you reported them to eBay.

  13. Which is rude, but not illegal (can-spam sucks) by raymorris · · Score: 1

    The CAN-SPAM act doesn't make unsolicited messages unlawful. So still just rude, not illegal.

    Except, perhaps, for the "unsubscribe" requirement of CAN-SPAM.

    Then you have the question of whether an eBay message is within the scope of the Act. To be applicable, the message must sent to an "electronic mail address":

    (5) Electronic mail address
    The term âoeelectronic mail addressâ means a destination, commonly expressed as a string of characters, consisting of a unique user name or mailbox (commonly referred to as the âoelocal partâ) and a reference to an Internet domain (commonly referred to as the âoedomain partâ), whether or not displayed, to which an electronic mail message can be sent or delivered.
    (6) Electronic mail message
    The term âoeelectronic mail messageâ means a message sent to a unique electronic mail address.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/us...

  14. High fees are highway robbery by OppMan29 · · Score: 1

    I used to sell every now and again ( not a power seller ) on ebay but their fees were just too much! Ebay is probably upset that the emails actually worked and got people to sell in amazon too or move there for good.

    1. Re:High fees are highway robbery by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Of course they're upset because the emails worked! And that's completely fair. If you go into McDonald's with applications to work at Burger King and a higher wage, McDonald's would tell you to leave. And when you came back, they could get you arrested for trespassing. Just stand off their fucking property. And don't use Ebay's internal mail system to get their sellers. Use literally any other method to reach out.

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