Ex-Facebook Security Chief Calls Out Tim Cook and Apple's Practices in China (cnbc.com)

On Wednesday, Tim Cook lambasted at many companies, saying they are weaponizing data against people and societies. Cook's remarks made headlines across the world. But someone reminded that even Apple appears to be bending backwards at places. Agreeing with everything Tim Cook had shared, Alex Stamos, former CSO of Facebook called out the company over its actions to limit access to apps in China. From a report: "We don't want the media to create an incentive structure that ignores treating Chinese citizens as less-deserving of privacy protections because a CEO is willing to bad-mouth the business model of their primary competitor, who uses advertising to subsidize cheaper devices," Stamos said in a series of tweets responding to recent comments made by Apple CEO Tim Cook.

[...] Though Stamos said he agreed with "almost everything" Cook said, in a series of tweets he called out Apple for blocking the ability to download VPN and encrypted messaging apps in China, which could provide ways to connect to the internet and send messages privately and without surveillance.

Comments

Nothing to see here

[bobstreo]

Just capitalism making sweet sweet cash helping totalitarian governments control, monitor and report the activities of their serfs/slaves/citizens.

Re: Nothing to see here

[saloomy]

The thing about Stamos is, he is wrong in one respect. Tim Cook is trying to influence opinions on privacy vs. security by speaking his mind. He isn't flouting law.

In China, it is law to block those services. Like it or not, their rule of law applies to US companies who do business there. The right way to change laws is to debate and convince law makers (or whatever system you hve arranged to determine what your laws are) and not simply flout them.

Apple should absolutely follow Chinese law when operating in China, and its employees or management are free to speak their minds when they are here (I don't know if China has free speech laws) if they disagree with those laws.

We would expect a Chinese company operating in the US to respect American laws when they are operating here, irrespective if they disagree with them.

Apple has done nothing wrong by trying to follow the law there. Neither for that matter has google. It's just stupid PR that got mishandled.

I disagree with many laws in the US, but I don't protest them by breaking those laws, I voice my opinions in the hopes that opinion will persuade government to move towards my way of thinking. Tim Cook is doing the same thing.

Re: Nothing to see here

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

I don't know if China has free speech laws.

Well, they have the following type of free speech laws, which I will illustrate via a joke from the early 1960s. By the way, my ex-girlfriend, who was born and raised in China, loved this joke because it really hit home for her.

An American named Jim goes with a tour group to Moscow and while there he meets a local Russian, Ivan. Their conversation goes like this:
Ivan: So, Jim, you are American. How you like trip to Moscow?
Jim: I have enjoyed it very much. Red Square is beautiful and there are so many interesting places in Moscow. The Russian people have been very friendly also.
Ivan: I am glad you like Moscow.
Jim: But there is one thing I don't like. You don't have freedom here.
Ivan: What you mean, we don't have freedom here?
Jim: You can't criticize the government. When I go home, if I want to, I can stand outside the White House and say that the president is a bad man and nobody will arrest me.
Ivan: Oh, it is the same here. If I want, any day I can go stand outside the Kremlin and say that the American president is a bad man and nobody will arrest me.

Now I've seen it all

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook calling someone out for not doing enough to protect everyone's privacy

Is it April 1st already?

Following local law is unethical?

[goombah99]

I see nothing hypocritical here. In one case they are forced to follow local chinese laws that the US finds repugnant. The other is selling private data which isn't covered by US laws mostly.

In actual fact in the US we also allow authorities to demand access to data. Apple is actually making technology that prevents that from being abused. Whereas other's are selling the data they harvest either directly or through what they allow the apps to collect.

I believe that's because it's ILLEGAL

[the_skywise]

I'm pretty sure China bans the use of snooping protections on the internet - much the same way many states in the US ban radar detectors.
I disagree completely with China's stance here but I don't think you can fault Apple for having to follow the laws of the country they're operating in.

China has Apple by the balls

[sjbe]

Though Stamos said he agreed with "almost everything" Cook said, in a series of tweets he called out Apple for blocking the ability to download VPN and encrypted messaging apps in China, which could provide ways to connect to the internet and send messages privately and without surveillance.

It's easy to take the moral high ground when you have nothing at stake. While ethically he probably has a valid point, Apple along with every other maker of electronics has a problem. Apple's products are mostly made in China and there aren't a lot of good alternative manufacturing options currently for the sorts of volumes and products Apple needs to make. China has a rather scary high percentage of market share in the electronics industry. It's rare to find a product that doesn't have significant China content in it. Therefore China's government has Apple by the balls if they don't cooperate with China's state surveillance policies.

Now this is to some degree a problem of Apple's own making and it doesn't excuse their behavior in cooperating with this sort of oppression. But we can understand why they do what they do even if we don't approve. Yes it makes them hypocrites to some degree but I'm not sure how much of a choice they realistically have right at this moment.

Choices and consequences

[sjbe]

I disagree completely with China's stance here but I don't think you can fault Apple for having to follow the laws of the country they're operating in.

Oh I can fault them for it. They made the choice to do business in China and they get to live with the consequences both good and bad. I understand that they are in a pickle since China could shut them down in a heartbeat if they didn't follow China's laws. But Apple put key parts of their supply chain voluntarily under Chinese authority and so they basically handed their spine to the Chinese government in the process. I get why Apple did what they did but they don't get off the hook ethically just because they painted themselves into a corner.