Slashdot Mirror


Amazon Has Pulled Ads From Bloomberg Over Controversial 'Big Hack' Chinese Spy Story; Apple Has Not Invited Outlet's Reporters To a Product Event Next Week (buzzfeednews.com)

Both Amazon and Apple are taking retributive measures against Bloomberg, which in a report earlier this month alleged that some motherboards used by these companies were hacked by China. From a report: Amazon pulled its fourth quarter advertisements on Bloomberg's website, a move some within the media giant think is retribution for its controversial story alleging that Chinese spies hacked into the online retailer's servers. According to a source in position to know, Amazon's digital media buyer, Initiative, informed Bloomberg's sales staff on October 16 that it would cancel its ad buys for the fourth quarter due to budget cuts. Internally, the source said, the staff received that decision, made only eight days after a previous communication with Initiative confirming that the ads would run, as a direct response to Amazon's displeasure over the October 4 story. (Amazon announced Thursday that its marketing expenses for Q3 2018 were 3.3 billion dollars, up more than 800 million dollars from the year before.) [...] According to multiple sources, Bloomberg was not invited to Apple's fall product event next week in Brooklyn. Further reading: In an Unprecedented Move, Apple CEO Tim Cook Calls For Bloomberg To Retract Its Chinese Spy Chip Story.

22 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. But no lawsuit.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They don't want to go through discovery, they just want to bury the news.

    1. Re:But no lawsuit.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They don't want to go through discovery, they just want to bury the news.

      You mean bullshit; because the entire article was bullshit.

      It reeks of a hatchet job planted by Trump's camp followers going after "Leftist Apple" and the "Chinese".

    2. Re:But no lawsuit.... by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would be difficult to actually succeed with a lawsuit, as they would first have to demonstrate that they've suffered some material harm from this. Realistically, if anyone had a chance of doing that, it would be Super Micro as opposed to Apple or Amazon. Neither Apple or Amazon have seen their stock fluctuate wildly enough that it would be easy to point to this story as the only (or even primary) cause. Super Micro on the other hand had their price drop to about half of what it was prior to the announcement.

      I think companies are also a little reluctant to sue mainstream press, even when they think they've been hit with a hatchet job. Like any group, the press don't like attacks against their own from outside. They might call each other left/right wing mouthpieces, but they'll put that aside if anyone starts going after the freedom of the press as a whole. A big company is better off just dragging the news agencies name through the mud. The competing news agencies won't mind too much (or might even join in) and a lawsuit is going to be difficult to win and cost the company more than they get.

    3. Re:But no lawsuit.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're accusing Bloomberg planting a pro-Trump hatchet job against Apple and "the Chinese"?
      You're accusing a highly-reputable business news company of planting a political hatchet job that doesn't mention politics?
      Most absurdly, you're accusing a magazine owned by Leftist politician Michael Bloomberg of running PRO-TRUMP stories?!

      There's something wrong with you.

    4. Re:But no lawsuit.... by RevDobbs · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bloomberg helping Trump? Really? That is highly unlikely.

    5. Re:But no lawsuit.... by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      Well personally I don't see legitimate libel or slander suits against press organizations as limiting press freedoms; at least not in the US - where proving the statement is true is a sufficient defense of either of those civil actions.

      I also think the media gets a pass on using weasel words like "alleged", and "claims" etc. I am fine with it as long as they name their sources - tell me who claims or who alleges blah blah put a spy chip on the motherboards or he sexually assaulted her or whatever. We can than hold that person responsible for making defamatory statements in public. However if the media does this with anonymous sources than THEY should bear the responsibility for defamation if they can't prove it was true. They are the press its their F'ING JOB to corroborate they things they are reporting after all.

       

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    6. Re:But no lawsuit.... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's a perfect, and reasonable, explanation.

      I agree - there's no place for that sort of thing on Slashdot.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  2. This story was reported widely in Feb of 2017 by supercell · · Score: 5, Informative
    This Supermicro server/security story was reported in 2017, although focused on Apple (said others were impacted, no specific mention of Amazon), since it was not highly profiled by Bloomberg Business News, it was not widely noticed.

    Feb 2017
    https://appleinsider.com/artic...
    https://www.macrumors.com/2017...
    https://arstechnica.com/civis/...

    Their claims that they knew nothing of this security issue from Supermicro has all the appererances of a PR cover up

    1. Re:This story was reported widely in Feb of 2017 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bad firmware != deliberately vulnerable hardware.

    2. Re:This story was reported widely in Feb of 2017 by Junta · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, *that* was a problem of failing to provide adequate protection of their servers and download site from fake firmware. From all reports, this was enough to scare Apple off as a customer, but didn't actually get anywhere to have a chance to actually infiltrate anything. This is a class of attack that can be mitigated, and it is correct to select a different vendor for having better security practices to prevent an external attacker that has no business relationship with the supplier from getting in.

      Bloomberg's accusation is that there was a *hardware* attack where a chip was injected and that the attack actually landed and spent a significant time having compromised the datacenters.

      This is a whole different implication:
      -An entity with a business relationship vetted by the supplier would have been the one to execute, suggesting the supplier is at best inadequate in vetting their partners and at worst (and the bloomberg *heavily* hints it this in mildly racist ways) complicit in the attack.
      -Such an attack landed successfully for a significant duration.

      As a few have pointed out, the far safer bet would be a firmware attack, as with the alleged approach it would be far more expensive, less likely to hit, and upon detection has no plausible deniability. The artcile smells fishy, and no other investigation can find a hint of anything to corroborate the claims.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re:This story was reported widely in Feb of 2017 by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Informative

      The issue you're talking about is an unrelated incident dealing with firmware, NOT the hardware issue that Bloomberg is reporting.

      The firmware incident from 2016 that you're talking about is indeed what led Apple to dump SuperMicro. That said, Apple has been open about that incident and even mentioned it explicitly in their initial response to Bloomberg's article, suggesting that—as you just did—Bloomberg confused the 2016 situation with the hardware incident alleged by Bloomberg. I would have hoped you'd have known better, since I already told you all of this just a few weeks ago.

      As for what the firmware incident involved, in short, SuperMicro let a board get by them that had malware on it. As far as Apple could tell, it was an incidental infection that wasn't targeted at them in any way, but it pointed to such a lapse in SuperMicro's QA process that SuperMicro could no longer be trusted as a supplier. Again, that's a separate issue from Bloomberg's claims that there were malicious chips physically placed on boards back in 2015.

  3. Re:It is their only recourse by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

    It's the only way to hold so-called news reporters to any sort of standard.

    Why should Apple or Amazon continue to deal with Bloomberg when Apple and Amazon think they've been the victim of false reporting?

    I agree.

    Plus, it's their ad money, and therefore totally their choice to spend it, or not, where they wish.

  4. Happens all the time by mschuyler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Neither Apple nor Amazon owe Bloomberg or anyone else ads. When an advertiser pulls ads from someone like Sean Hannity or Rosie in a blatant attempt to hurt those outlets, everyone here cheers. But Apple pulls ads from Bloomberg and the cries of unfairness are loud. Some people here will "never buy Apple" because, you know, Chinese slave labor and all that. You get to do that. You have that right. You get to make a political decision about where you spend your money. So do Apple and Amazon. It's nothing more complicated than that.

    --
    How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
  5. More recent research by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Informative

    The thing is, just recently LOTS of news orgs, and the government itself could find no evidence of what was reported - and both Apple and Amazon did not just give PR responses, but much stronger responses that would lead to large fines if they were lying.

    Since everyone else on Earth is unable to verify the story, it's far more likely Bloomburg really screwed up.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:More recent research by supercell · · Score: 2
      There was no attempt at that time to refute the stories by Apple and others at that time. Only when it reached critical mass, (Bloomberg, ran a huge piece on it, did they react).

      If they had reacted to a few blogs post/Tech articles in 2017 they would have had the Streisand Effect on the matter.

      Supermico announced in early 2017 that it lost TWO large data-center customers in 2016 over security issues. Apple being one, Amazon probably being the other. Their stock took a huge hit in early 2017 when their CFO made this announcement on an earnings call.

      Feb 2017 Marketwatch article

      https://www.marketwatch.com/st...

      There is a hell of a lot of smoke here.

    2. Re:More recent research by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      Those are totally separate issues though. One was companies leaving Supermicro because they sucked, which is a far different matter than Chinese spy-grains being embedded on motherboards (which again exactly ZERO people can produce physical evidence of).

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:More recent research by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      There was no attempt at that time to refute the stories by Apple and others at that time.

      You're confusing two different incidents. The reason there wasn't an attempt to refute the 2016 firmware incident you're talking about is because it actually happened. Apple has even talked about it publicly. From Apple's response to Bloomberg:

      We are deeply disappointed that in their dealings with us, Bloomberg’s reporters have not been open to the possibility that they or their sources might be wrong or misinformed. Our best guess is that they are confusing their story with a previously-reported 2016 incident in which we discovered an infected driver on a single Super Micro server in one of our labs. That one-time event was determined to be accidental and not a targeted attack against Apple.

      The 2016 firmware incident in which a single SuperMicro server in a test environment received a malware update is real. The 2015 hardware incident alleged by Bloomberg—in which a malicious chip was physically placed on the boards—has zero factual basis as of yet and zero corroboration from outside sources.

      Moreover, as I've already pointed out to you in previous comments, SuperMicro didn't lose Amazon as a customer in 2017 like you're claiming. From Amazon's response to Bloomberg (same link as above):

      Additionally, in June 2018, researchers made public reports of vulnerabilities in SuperMicro firmware. As part of our standard operating procedure, we notified affected customers promptly, and recommended they upgrade the firmware in their appliances.

      Amazon was still using SuperMicro as of earlier this year. SuperMicro did lose a big customer, but it apparently wasn't Amazon.

  6. Show me the data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If SuperMicro is guilty of this, then all Bloomberg has to do is go online, but some boards and pay MIT or some other school with the facilities to find the malicious chips. That seems pretty logical right?

    If the chips actually exist, they should be pretty easy to identify. Just cross reference the chips and the drivers and verify what is OEM, Chinese or otherwise and then reverse engineer them and simulate the hack.

    This is not a difficult thing to do.

    I know of a NATO government organization that has pulled the power from a stack of Nutanix servers because of this article. I asked them to prove to me that the story had any merit other than FUD and they explained that they pulled the plug because they need proof there is no merit not the other way around.

    I think SuperMicro should sue the shit out of Bloomberg over this. So should Nutanix and every other company financially effected by this article. Then Bloomberg will be forced to either prove their claims ... at which point we can all apologize and thank them or they can suffer the hundreds of millions in losses over publishing this rubbish.

  7. Conspiracy theory time? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd guess that the story is true and the affected megacorps are trying to cover it up. I'd guess that these megacorps are cooperating with the TLAs investigating the issue, and don't want the story made public because they'd rather not go public about a data breach (at least not individually and earlier than necessary), which the TLAs would also prefer in this case. So the media would be both compromising the investigation and bringing bad PR to the victims by reporting on this.

    In a couple years we'll probably hear that it was all true and the affected companies will jointly disclose the data breach.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  8. Re:Kohath you're a fucking moron lol. by Kohath · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's almost certainly not intentionally false and provably motivated by malice. If the story is merely false, it isn't (legally) libel.

  9. Age of paranoia by Headw1nd · · Score: 2

    So while reading the "comments" where it seems everyone is accusing everyone else of being a shill, I couldn't help but thinking any number of them could actually be from Chinese or Russians, working against each other to either discredit the story or hype it up. As an American it seems strange to live in a world where everything around you has the potential to be tainted by foreign psyops, I imagine this must be a little bit like the third world felt during the cold war.

  10. A good review of the technology by davecb · · Score: 2

    https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2018/10/05/making-sense-of-the-supermicro-motherboard-attack/

    "Perhaps the animation is an artist’s concept only, but this is just the right place to compromise the BMC.

    That's the Security Group at the University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory, and they take no prisoners (;-))

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net