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Lime Recalls 2,000 Scooters After Reports of Some Catching Fire (businessinsider.com)

Posted by msmash on from the lithium-batteries-doing-things dept.

Lime has recalled 2,000 of its electric scooters from the streets of Los Angeles, San Diego, and Lake Tahoe, the company said Wednesday, after the Washington Post contacted it about some catching on fire. From a report: In a statement, Lime said it was investigating the "unconfirmed" reported and had pulled the vulnerable models, manufactured by the Chinese company Segway Ninebot, from circulation. "At no time were riders or members of the public put at risk," Lime said. "Unfortunately, despite our efforts, we've recently received an unconfirmed report that another Segway Ninebot scooter model may also be vulnerable to battery failure, which we are currently investigating." Until the problem is solved, scooters will only be charged in Lime facilities and not available to "juicers," people who are paid by the company charge scooters after-hours. These facilities will be monitored 24/7, the company said, and all scooters in Lime's fleet, regardless of manufacturer, will undergo a "new daily diagnostic training program."

49 comments

  1. Catch Fire by ArgonautThief · · Score: 1

    Would be great if they all caught fire.....

    --
    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
    1. Re:Catch Fire by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

      Halt and catch fire?

    2. Re:Catch Fire by ArgonautThief · · Score: 1

      Indeed - exactly what I was thinking.

      --
      The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
    3. Re:Catch Fire by jellomizer · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why?
      Do you just like seeing people seriously hurt in general? Or do you just don't like the idea of motorized transportation that isn't a full sized car or motorcycle. Because there was someone who slightly inconvenienced you with some unsafe driving.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Catch Fire by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why?
      Do you just like seeing people seriously hurt in general? Or do you just don't like the idea of motorized transportation that isn't a full sized car or motorcycle. Because there was someone who slightly inconvenienced you with some unsafe driving.

      Because most people riding these are under-aged, and blast down the sidewalk at top speed. Broken wrists and legs result.

    5. Re: Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only enjoy seeing geeks get hurt, but they're not real people.

    6. Re:Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you just like seeing people seriously hurt in general?

      They like to pseudo-anonymous express their violent sociopath fantasies.

      Or do you just don't like the idea of motorized transportation that isn't a full sized car or motorcycle.

      I smell a real sense of: Got to punish anyone who doesn't conform to my way of things.

      Because there was someone who slightly inconvenienced you with some unsafe driving.

      He's probably the kind of driver who doesn't yield for pedestrians at a crosswalk. Would rather snake his car around them than wait 30 seconds.

      You know what? we hand out driver's licenses to anyone these days.

    7. Re:Catch Fire by ArgonautThief · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because they are motorised vehicles that interact in public spaces with other vehicles and pedestrians but there is no requirement to have a licence to operate them, any test that proves aptitude, responsibility, any form of consideration for other members of the public or decency on the part of the user in any way whatsoever.

      Slight inconvenience, no problem, that's ok, who cares?

      Reckless foolishness that forces drivers / pedestrians to take evasive manoeuvres? That's an issue. People with drivers' licences already do foolish, dangerous things. No need to add even more potential for accidents to the mix.

      I obviously wouldn't want them to catch fire and injure the rider and / or bystanders. Maybe just all quietly burn to ashes in a warehouse somewhere.

      --
      The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. - Albert Einstein
    8. Re:Catch Fire by rockmuelle · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because they are not safe and the companies are exploiting gaps in laws and enforcement to profit at their customer's expense.

      I've been a bike commuter for 20+ years and am well aware of the hazards of the roads and how to bike in a city safely and lawfully. The vast majority of scooter riders are not being safe and are breaking laws on a regular basis.

      Some examples (Austin as my reference point):

      - Scooter users regularly dart through intersections when lights are red, often executing dangerous left turns. Proper action: act like you're a car and obey the stop lights or get off the scooter and use the cross walk.
      - Scooter users try to pass cars on the right when cars are making right turns. Proper action: act like a car and line up behind the car and wait your turn.
      - Scooter users weaving in and out of pedestrians on side walks. Proper action: don't do this. All it takes is a pedestrian waving their arm or shifting their path and both the scooter user and pedestrian are injured.
      - Lack of helmets. Proper action: Wear a helmet. Sure, they don't stop concussions (common argument used against helmets that's generally true), but they do stop your skull from getting cracked in low speed collusions (much worse than a concussion).

      I can go on, but you get the point. Riding these scooters is not like walking or using a push scooter. They operate at speeds most users are not familiar with on infrastructure not designed for their use. There's also an entire population of other infrastructure users that are not conditioned to be aware of them.

      Look, I love the idea of these scooters. I love that there's potential to help us all adapt to make it safer for all lower speed methods of transportation (bikes, skateboards, push scooters, running ;) ). But, putting everyone at risk and pretending you're not is an incredibly irresponsible way to go about it.

    9. Re:Catch Fire by AndrewFlagg · · Score: 1

      as a kid, we had barbaric skateboards with real steel wheels and ball bearings, wood plank.. played in the streets all the time... got out of the way of cars, trucks, tractors and cows... if a kid did not yield, they got honked at or worse... run over by a cow.... let the kids play in the streets.. i dare them..

    10. Re: Catch Fire by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

      Yo Reddit is that way sis ---->

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    11. Re:Catch Fire by fafalone · · Score: 1

      Just how fast do these things go? Google says 15mph top possible speed. You can pedal a bike more than 15mph without a motor (and much quicker down an incline), so unless you think bikes ought to have similar requirements, it seems kinda ridiculous to regulate these like actual motorcycles and cars. You know what bicyclists can also do? Get tickets for biking in a reckless manner. Unless there's some odd legal loophole where they can't ticket these scooter users in a similar manner, enforcement is what's needed, not stomping out an innovative new transportation service. And if there is such a loophole, that can be fixed as well.
      Some people ride their bikes like assholes and cause injuries too; it hurts to get slammed into by a biker being reckless, just happened to me a few months ago. Do you want to ban those as well? Have to get a bike license after passing a bike road test? If a motor isn't faster than foot power, it shouldn't be regulated like traditional motorcycles.

    12. Re: Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither bikes nor motorized scooters belong in sidewalks. Basically, nothing that can sustain speeds higher than a typical pedestrian belongs on sidewalks (accessibility devices for those with diagnosed mobility problems excepted).

      Scooters belong on the street with other âoevehiclesâ.

      Personally, Iâ(TM)m not a pop-Darwinist or wracked by the fear that if there are more people around, too many will be better than me at stuff, so I see no upside to adding ways for people to parlay a small mistake into an early demise.

    13. Re:Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Face it. The real reason you don't like scooters is because you, like many Slashdotters, are too damn fat to ride one. Lose some weight, tubby.

    14. Re:Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Replying as AC so as not to burn mod points I gave you but I have been to Austin and seen these scooters in action and the Austin riders make the riders in my city look like law abiding saints!

    15. Re:Catch Fire by Miser · · Score: 1

      lp0 on fire?

    16. Re: Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You first little bitch.

    17. Re:Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still see those so called "hoverboards" around L.A. now and then. I guess there are a few left that haven't caught fire yet.

    18. Re:Catch Fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they are much more dangerous than a skateboard or even a pedal bike, because at least you can hear a skateboard coming, and most bikes do make some noise, at least enough to give some warning provided they are not being ridden at a very high speed.

        Those e-scooters on the other end are nearly silent, and a couple days ago, one zoomed by just an inch or two from my right arm. Had I made a sudden turn to the right at about that moment=very nasty accident.

  2. wheelchair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In addition to fire, these scooter companies put people in wheel chairs at risk of perishing because their support staff are starting to place groups of 3 to 5 of them on the sidewalk ramps

    1. Re:wheelchair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying people in wheelchairs DIE because of this? Wouldn't it be simple to look ahead of where they are going especially it (in your opinion) causes death? Upon spotting such open spike-pits, have someone clear the way for them? I know I would help out, and I'm positive I'm not unique. /me looks up the stats on wheelchair deaths and scooters.

      Nope, nothing there. Maybe you don't know what "perishing" is. That actually makes more sense.

    2. Re:wheelchair by sexconker · · Score: 2

      You're a moron. I see it every day here now that some asshat as decided that placing and recharging BIRD scooters in my area was going to be his "side hustle".

      The scooters are lined up in the sidewalk in the morning, 3-5 wide, blocking the ramp a person in a wheelchair would need to use to cross the street. in many cases, they outright block the entirety of the narrow sidewalk. I've said it before and I'll said it again: If I see one of these in my way when I'm walking, it's going into the nearest dumpster.

    3. Re:wheelchair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      another rough tough keyboard warrior .. why bother spouting crap you'd never actually do?

  3. Catching? by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder if they are catching on fire, or some are being set on fire...

    I know some people dislike Lime scooters quite a lot, I've heard of some found with wires cut or otherwise mangled.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: Catching? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of my conservative peers hate them with a passion. I wouldn't be surprised if some are setting them ablaze. Good point.

    2. Re: Catching? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They would be more likely to shoot the scooters.

    3. Re:Catching? by hey! · · Score: 1

      That shouldn't be hard to figure out by an examination of the remains.

      It should be extremely difficult to get one of these things to burn, and the effort required will leave traces. If it's easy to set one on fire, that'd be a design flaw in itself.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Catching? by sexconker · · Score: 2

      Are you stupid? The vertical portion is a column filled with Lithium-based batteries. It would be trivial to cause them to explode. Oh, sorry, I mean "experience thermal runaway, with ejecta and flaming report".

    5. Re:Catching? by hey! · · Score: 1

      Are you stupid? The vertical portion is a column filled with Lithium-based batteries. It would be trivial to cause them to explode. Oh, sorry, I mean "experience thermal runaway, with ejecta and flaming report".

      So you don't carry a mobile phone because of the danger of thermal runaway, right?

      I may be stupid, but I do know enough about battery technology to know that even though the underlying lithion chemistry is unstable, it's not trivial to get an assembled li-battery to explode by thermal runaway. In fact it's hard to get them to explode by an external heat source, unless it's something like a gas torch, in which case you'll get a localized explosion of a single cell.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:Catching? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A phone battery only need to supply very low currents - most of it goes to light up the display. Safeguards are easy. (And necessary - a pocket fire is dramatic)

      A scooter battery must deliver enough power to accelerate the scooter up to its legal speed limit, with a person on top. That is a serious amount of power. It is enough power to melt substandard wires that are too thin (or have gotten too thin after flexing and bending some times.) If the insulation melts, the wires may short and then the battery is capable of quickly heating them to incandescence and set fire to things.

      With badly engineered batteries, this sort of thing may happen inside the battery. A well-engineered battery won't do that - but can still supply enough power to set badly engineered external wiring on fire. Fuses help only partially - a scooter/ebike may very well need 50A. So the fuse will pass 50A then - and won't know if those 50A is supplied to the motor controller or to a partial short.

      Both battery and wiring can be well engineered and manufactured. In that case, it probably isn't a cheap Chinese import. When gasoline was "new tech", there were a lot of gasoline-related fires. This improved as technology matured. Electric systems is also mature technology - the starter in a truck see more current than these electric scooters due to the much bigger load. You don't see many truck fires due to starter current setting fire to the wires. But scooters are built by shady companies where looking cool (for some definition of cool) is more important than durability. Cheap or safe - pick one.

    7. Re:Catching? by hey! · · Score: 1

      You are making my point: if the scooter is catching fire because of use, it's an engineering design fault. That said, if the cells are catching fire due to load-intitiated thermal runaway, it's not just a system design fault, it's likely that substandard cells were used -- possibly gray market counterfeits. Individual cells are supposed to have thermal runaway protection, usually in the form of a pressure/temperature/current switch built into the anode end of the battery and a current interrupt device built into the cathode end. These should convert a cell under load stress into an open circuit.

      So for load-initiated thermal runaway to be a problem in your EV fleet, you have to do two things: (1) use defective (possibly gray market counterfeit) cells AND (2) not build proper load or charging protections into your system.

      My original point was that the methods used by a vandal would likely leave some kind of forensic evidence behind, and that the fires are likely a design or construction fault. For that point to be wrong (stupidly wrong, in your words), we'd have to expect well-designed and correctly constructed EVs to catch fire.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:Catching? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they get thrown into fountains, parts are stolen off of them, people chuck them into the middle of a street or down a ravine, etc, etc, etc..

        Not because people are protesting their usage, but because we have alleged people who are really animals that belong in a cage who just like to destroy things for whatever reason.

        And this is why it's often hard/impossible to have nice things.

  4. Lime fire is the new Dumpster fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like a dumster fire but it could be anywhere, even next to your parked car or shubbery.

    And then who cleans up the toxic waste steaming on your lawn? Is there even a phone number to call? Where do you send the bill?

  5. Something something... stop drop and "roll" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't need a recall, just a new slogan. lol

  6. Yes, They're Dangerous by cunina · · Score: 2

    And not just due to fire hazards. I've actually owned one for a couple of years, and I've had a number of close calls. They are absolutely a hazard to ride on the sidewalks, and American-style bike-unfriendly roads are no place for them either.

    1. Re:Yes, They're Dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also illegal to ride them on sidewalks in virtually every city in the country.

    2. Re:Yes, They're Dangerous by silverkniveshotmail. · · Score: 1

      It's also illegal to ride them on sidewalks in virtually every city in the country.

      [citation needed]

    3. Re:Yes, They're Dangerous by sexconker · · Score: 1

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Beyond that, they're motorized and not a medical device such as a wheel chair, Rascal, etc. You can't use motorized shit on the sidewalks.

    4. Re:Yes, They're Dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also illegal to ride them on sidewalks in virtually every city in the country.

      [citation needed]

      Different AC here, but.. seriously? It's not legal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk in most place, let alone a motorized vehicle.

  7. now watch this sic tailwhip! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    man, this new Ghostrider reboot is LAME

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  8. It's either.. by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

    Crappy Lipo batteries or crappy chargers puffing up the crappy lipo batteries. Run into that all the time with radio control models using lipo batteries.

    --
    You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
  9. Re:Catch Fire - obligatory pic by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

    Hot-ass scooter .

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  10. That's a feature by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    It's a feature, not a bug.

    Next up, a fiery twist of lime.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  11. Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's funny how their statement was "at no time was anyone put in any danger." If something is catching on fire then pretty much by definition it is potentially putting people in danger (catching a building on fire, etc).

  12. Known problem. Keep it dry. by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Was it raining? Lime can real hot when wet, hot enough to start a fire.

    Although quicklime is not considered a fire hazard, its reaction with water can release enough heat to ignite combustible materials.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  13. Remove the batteries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Turn them into kick scooters. Nothing wrong with getting some excercise.

  14. Funny story.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..I found one of those rental scooters propped up against a shop window in Santa Monica. It wasn't a Lime scooter, but from another company operating in the area, the ones with the digital speedometer at the center of the handlebars.

      Anyway, somebody removed the drive section, leaving just the stalk and the handlebars propped up against the window, and the speedometer/control was still lit up and operational!

      So, what does one do with just the drive section?