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Israel Aims To Ban Gasoline, Diesel Vehicles By 2030 (cleantechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CleanTechnica: 2030 seems like a long way off, but it's really just around the corner. And when the bell tolls at midnight on December 31, 2030, you may not be able to buy a gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicle in Israel. After that date, all passenger cars will be electric and all trucks will be powered by electricity or compressed natural gas, if a proposal currently under consideration gets approved by the government. A final decision is expected by the end of this year. Energy Minister Yuval Steinitz [told Reuters last month] the biggest challenge will be creating a "critical mass" of electric and CNG powered vehicles before the deadline arrives. "We are already encouraging [the transition] by funding ... more than 2,000 new charging stations around the country," he says. The plan was set in motion one day after the United Nations issued its latest climate assessment that finds nations must do far more than they are currently doing in order to stave off warmer global average temperatures that will put the environment at risk. In order to reach the goal, the Israeli government will "reduce taxation on electric cars to almost zero, so they are going to be much cheaper," Energy Minister Yuval Steinitz said. He expects there will be about 177,000 electric cars on Israeli roads around 2025. By 2030, the expectation is that there will be nearly 1.5 million EVs in the country. The country has a ways to go though, as there are less than 100 electric cars on the roads today.
Because you can't spell war without bomb. (In Hebrew.)
Fossil fuels were put in the ground by Satan to confuse innocent God-fearing creationists. Emissions such as sulfur dioxide are harmful to humans because they originate from Hell. Global warming is actually a plot by Satan to terraform Earth to more resemble his domain. /s
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Way to stick it to the Saudis and Iranians. Be on the forefront of making their primary product worthless while helping your own environment...
Because of the surrounding hostile muslim countries it's inefficient to get fuel to Israel anyhow.
Soo, there's this old book that says my peeps like, totally owned North America, it's like, our land as ordained by like God and stuff, soo, going to need y'all to leave. It's cool though, Texas wasn't part of that whole deal, so...off you go. Oh, did I mention, going clean energy, and I'm pretty sure you are siding with Iran. You know what? You don't get Texas. GTFO.
Want to know just how sick and twisted the owners of Slashdot really are?
Go read actual quotes from the satanic js who are the current 'ministers' in Izrael's goverment. Almost all of these demons have first hand experience of raping, torturing and murdering those the js call 'sub-Human'.
These depavaties are open about wnating hundreds of thousands of palestinians MAIMED for life- which is why the current j-ish hitler implemented his free fire sniper policy on demonstartors.
Google "ONE SHOT TWO KILLS". The satanic js awarded graduates of the izraeli sniper schools with clothing that depicted a j-ish sniper cross-hair on the belly of a pregnat 'sub-Human'. This was no prank, but widespead policy by the j-ish military. The very thing the js accuse the original nazis of doing, they themselves boast they have perfected in izrael.
The self-described 'enemy' of the js were the modern secular nations of the Middle East, like Libya, Syria and Iraq. Wahhabi sh-tholes were the allies of Izrael, for the despots that ruled to keep their people down in the name of 'Islam' suited the js just perfectly. This is why Izrael assisted saudi Arabia in its wahhabi invasion of Syria. And why the current butcher whole rules in Saudi arabia boasted of his eternal friendship with Izrael.
Slashdot will lionise Izrael whenver it can, and demonise Iran, russia and China whenever it can.
Izrael is the purest example of evil imaginable. As I type, the j-ish conbtrolled houses of Congress in the USA will be voting to offer absolute support to the demonic js for their new atrocities in Gaza. Even in the UK and France this never happens in their parliaments. But 100% of members of the US congress are j-ish owned. Are you Americans proud to be slaves to such a death cult?
Izrael's j-ish hitler wants American to wage war on Iran. And america is preparing to do just this. What sick sadistic monster could support such a situation to any degree? The j-ish control of America = the murder of millions of Iranians.
Clinton promised immediate war on Russian forces in Syria in support of the wahhabi terrorists if she were elected, and a quick path to the Iran war shortly afterwards. THAT is why Trump won. Now Trump is just as much pro-war. A consequence of the stranglehold the death cult holds over America.
Now think about the REAL reason Slashdot hosted this story.
The interesting point will be when the filling stations are mostly all electric charging stations, and driving your vintage car across the country gets to be pretty challenging.
Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
All you're doing is shifting the CO2 emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack.
So what? You put the smokestack in occupied territory...
Doesn't necessarily require the renewables / nuclear first. If you have more and more EVs on your network they act as storage capacity. Combine with smart meters and you can use EVs for load shedding vs dumping to heat. Even if you don't ever recover any energy from the evs increasing or decreasing charge rates will allow you to stabilise the network.
Once you have that stabilisation effect in place you can increase your % of renewables.
The elephant in the room with EVs is that they become economically unfeasible to keep on the road once the battery pack sufficiently degrades. Unless there's a major breakthrough in battery longevity, we're looking at a future where those with a lower income will no longer have access to inexpensive used vehicles. I'm guessing that's why they're also hedging their bets with CNG vehicles, which will gracefully age into second-hand clunkers. But if the primary market gravitates mostly towards EVs, people looking for a cheap car are going to be totally out of luck. EVs are essentially scrap once the batteries crap out.
Don't get me wrong, helping the environment is a big deal. But giving the middle finger to the poor in the process seems like the wrong way to go about doing it.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
watt for watt the cleanest cars are dirtier than the dirtiest coal plants, dipshit.
Are you telling us that the Israelis going to turn all their military vehicles, including tanks, trucks, and bulldozers, into EV?
Are you going to tell us that the Israelis gonna convert their fleet of fighters into solar planes?
Are you going to tell us that the Israeli missiles going to be propelled by electricity?
This is STUPID !!
This is about autarky, but autarky is a dirty word when spoken by non-Israelis ... so lets say climate instead.
That is not actually a rule in the english language. Some language prescriptivists tried to make it one arbitrarily in the 1800's to make english line up with latin. There is no historical linguistic basis for the two terms having such strict differentiation. The real rule as per historical and actual use is whichever sounds less awkward.
Israel is small enough that current EVs should be able to go border-to-border on a single charge. Given that range anxiety is one of the major reasons why people don't want EVs, it seems a small country can convert much more easily.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Ah, yet another delusional autistic grammar fuck who is ignorant of the fact that the little book Robert Lowth shat out in 1762 was merely a proposal of restrictions on English grammar using Latin rules and other random brain farts he thought would be wonderful. Creative writing has ignored it often since then to the present day. Loath the Lowth, set your puny little mind free.
A Hybrid - Gas/Electric is the best answer.
When batteries are drained, run with gasoline (NOT "petrol").
While that may be true, I think "less than 100" does sound more awkward.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
set your puny little mind free.
.
I would rather kick your ribs in and listen to you try to breathe.
This is does not make sense. The cleanest cars are as clean as the power supply as an electric car has no emissions. The power supply gets cleaner every day as more renewables are put in place around the world for electric power production. The electric car + renewables is as clean as the sun and wind.
Yes, there is energy used to produce the car, solar panels, and windmills. That doesn't really matter when the source is 100% renewable energy. Then you have clean power making more clean power. The materials in the batteries are recyclable and not terribly toxic (no heavy metals). And electric cars last a lot longer than combustion engine cars. No one talks about it, but auto sales will go down when all cars are electric. There will simply be no reason to replace them. Maintenance will also be very little. Electric engines can last for years and years with no maintenance.
What you WILL see is a need for regular inspections to make sure people give the car some maintenance. The brakes are regenerative, so they won't wear down anywhere near as much as in current cars. But they will eventually. The same is true of the tires, maybe the suspension. I think there will be poor people who inherit their cars from their grandparents and get in accidents because no one did a safety check or maintenance on the cars for 20 years.
Bullshit!
CO2 emissions are lower for EVs that are charged using power generated using natural gas than ICE vehicles power by gasoline.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Great, so not only does your car take hours to fuel up, it might even take double that if the power company decides it wants to reduce load.
Every time I think I've found every reason to not want an electric car, someone surprises me and finds some new ones.
What about the military ?. I can't see an electric tank being that viable.
O.K. they have their own supplies but if you aren't making and selling the fuel for civilian use supply chains are going to get very fragile.
See my subject:... & you KNOW that Mr. UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous STALKER of myself: I'd never whine that way, LEAST OF ALL to "your kind" here & as to YOUR "fine advice" you so freely dispense (like shit is & if I wanted any shit? I'd squeeze your head, lol)?
No thanks - I don't want to be the GNARLED FUCKWEEZIL you are which EXPLAINS YOUR PATHETIC WHINING, bitch (lmao @ U).
APK
P.S.=> I'd rather be ME & keep EXPOSING your bs games https://hardware.slashdot.org/... & letting you CONTINUALLY make FOOLS of yourselves instead, lol - thanks in a way - your reaction PROVES it works... apk
You're apparently an idiot, you think you control local gasoline any more than you do local electricity? Get a solar setup and pump your own watts, crybaby idiot. You're not going to get a similar deal with gasoline. Be a fool, IDC.
This is pure internal Israeli politics/propaganda. Nothing to do with transportation. The country is heavily dependent upon fossil fuel taxation -- NOTHING is going to happen. Fortunately, Yuval Steinitz did get his headline.
Ev cars are full everytime you get in them in the morning.
Theres no getting in the car with the fuel light on. For most people and most usage cases a daily range of 450km is more than enough. It doesnt really matter if it takes 6 hrs to charge if youre asleep.
The only time charge time matters is when you exceed 450km in a day.
You would also get a choice. Cheaper power to allow car to be storage or more expensive for not. Same options as ive got for hotwater systems and aircon
Well done Israel!
Ferret
What he's saying is that Internal combustion engines for cars are inherently less efficient and more polluting than coal-fired generators.
Soooo....you know how you don't like absurd over-simplifications? And you know how you then said "Happiness is EARNED"? Don't you think that might be an, um, absurd over-simplification? Or do you think babies should not be happy?
All you're doing is shifting the CO2 emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack.
Think about that "all" for a bit. Also the "CO2" in front of "emissions".
You get to shift 100% of tailpipe emissions of all types, not just CO2, out of city centres and suburbs to large scale powerplants that can run at maximum efficiency with much more effective scrubbers. That's a set of major gains right there.
Trump is a faggot, Trump supporters are morons, your JD just means you know more about the law than his entire administration, but yes you are a fucking idiot. Yes, you are. And a nazi enabler. You should hang next to him.
For EVs to be effective at combating CO2 emissions, you have to first switch your electricity generation so it's predominantly nuclear and renewables.
Why do you necessarily have to do one before the other? Changing/transitioning the source of the electricity through renewable (or lesser emitting) sources can be done at the same time as advancing energy storage, particularly towards Electric Vehicles.
Laptops, phones, IoT devices, etc, don't care if they're recharged by renewable or fossils fuels. The companies making the batteries will worry about storing the energy and others the end-of-life recycling of the batteries; the energy companies will worry about providing renewable energy sources.
We don't give a second thought to those other, smaller rechargeable devices especially in the combination of advances in hardware & software to maximize battery life, reducing the need to recharge in the first place. I bet if you had a time machine and went back 20 years you'd have laughed your a$$ off to their ignorance. When asked "What would you have done different?" and your response would be "LOL IDK Emoticon Hashtag #PeopleInthePastArestupid
I see cars as a more scaled up version, everything happens in 'baby steps'.
Ev cars are full everytime you get in them in the morning.
Theres no getting in the car with the fuel light on. For most people and most usage cases a daily range of 450km is more than enough. It doesnt really matter if it takes 6 hrs to charge if youre asleep.
The same thing applies for natural gas cars. A natural gas car can fill up at home with the low pressure lines common in many houses by using a pump. They take a while to fill up this way but it doesn't matter if you are asleep.
The only time charge time matters is when you exceed 450km in a day.
With a high pressure NG fill supply at a filling station the fill up times can be kept to a few minutes. I know there's claims of getting 80% charge in 20 minutes but a natural gas car can get 100% fill in 5 minutes, and not have the problem of wear on a battery for a quick charge.
If you are in a nation where a large percentage of your electric supply comes from natural gas, such as Isreal, USA, UK, Japan, and I'm sure many more, then electric cars don't seem like a great idea. In fact they seem like a bit of a waste. Electric vehicles might offer more choices on where this electricity may come from, presumably something even cleaner than natural gas. In a tiny nation like Israel where the neighbors aren't all that friendly the ability to use solar and wind is not that great. Rockets and mortars on fragile solar collectors and windmills could lead them to energy problems, and importing this kind of energy is just handing them a rope to make a noose. A nuclear power plant on the other hand can be put inside a sturdy bunker. Use a fuel synthesis process like the US Navy has been working on and they can make natural gas for their cars even if the bombings take out power lines.
I'm thinking electric cars, and I mean pure electrics rather than hybrids of some sort, will be a fad and go out of style at some point. Or if they do hang on then they will be considered a lesser option for those not able to afford something better. Kind of like how aluminum was once considered more valuable than gold but is now cheap once the technology advanced on aluminum refining. If batteries get as cheap as people claim they will then I'm guessing the hierarchy will flip, electric cars won't be for the "one percent" but instead for the commoners.
Natural gas looks to me like a great fuel for cars. I wish Israel success in making this switch.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I wanted to see someone from outside the system take the reins for a while and shake things up.
How's that going? Is the swamp drained yet?
No sig today...
Electric vehicles are 4 to 5 times as efficient as internal combustion engines.
So shifting from gasoline cars to coal powered power plants saves minimum 50% of the fuel (coal powered plants are only ~42% efficient, cars are below 20%)
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
If you are in a nation where a large percentage of your electric supply comes from natural gas, such as Isreal, USA, UK, Japan, ...
You lost your audience somewhere between "such as" and UK or Japan
Natural gas looks to me like a great fuel for cars.
It is. Most transportation in Thailand is done with LPG. (Technically not the same as "natural gas"), however your "refueling times" are way off. Refueling a Truck takes +30minutes, refueling a bus about 20 minutes.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
He's creating a new one next to it. bigger.
From https://www.theguardian.com/fo...: (with a nice infographic :) )
For every 100km travelled in a petrol car ... ... it takes 26 megajoules to get petrol out of the ground and transport it to the car ... ... and the car itself uses 142 megajoules to move itself around.
For the same distance in an electric car, using electricity generated in an oil-fired power plant ... it takes 74 megajoules to generate and transport the electricity to the car ... ... which then uses just 38 megajoules to move itself and its passengers
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Passenger car diesel engines have energy efficiency of up to 41% but more typically 30%, and petrol engines of up to 37.3%, but more typically 20%
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Gasoline engines effectively use only 15% of the fuel energy content to move the vehicle or to power accessories, and diesel engines can reach on-board efficiency of 20%, while electric vehicles have on-board efficiency of over 90%, when counted against stored chemical energy, or around 80%, when counted against required energy to recharge
And finally, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...:
Typical thermal efficiency for utility-scale electrical generators is around 37% for coal and oil-fired plants[4], and 56 – 60% (LEV) for combined-cycle gas-fired plants.
I couldn't find good statistics on energy costs of mining and transporting coal, pumping up and refining oil, and pumping up gas but I'm sure they're on the wiki somewhere :). Also, no idea of the energy cost of assembling the batteries vs an ICE but I would assume over the total lifetime of the car it should be negligible.
In any case, the most "optimistic" comparison (from the EV point of view) it gets total fossil-to-wheels efficiency of .6*.8=48%. The most pessimistic is .37*.8=30%. The former figure is lower than total ICE efficiency, while the latter figure is comparable. The statistics from the Guardian link above (which have the ICE use 3.7 times the energy per distance traveled) seems to be close to the 20% vs 80% comparison.
All in all, there does seem evidence for assuming that an EV will get better total energy efficiency, but it will be more like 1.5-2x as efficiency and not an order of magnitude better. Of course, an EV fleet gives better options for generating power - ICEs can only use fossil fuels or biofuels (which are problematic in many cases), while EVs can use anything that generates electricity. Especially solar seems a good idea for Israel.
I'm not whining. YOU, are whining. I state fact: c6gunner caught impersonating me & ZIP = blowhard fool liar https://hardware.slashdot.org/...
* So STOP your whining - bitch.
APK
P.S.=> Facts ARE facts - immutable truth QUOTING them both - no denying it (you're obviously 1 of them & don't like the EXPOSURE) - well, keep impersonating me LIKE YOU DID HERE https://hardware.slashdot.org/... (as no way I'd ever say any of that, least of all to weezilz, lol, like YOU here)? I keep this up... apk
Theres no getting in the car with the fuel light on. For most people and most usage cases a daily range of 450km is more than enough. It doesnt really matter if it takes 6 hrs to charge if youre asleep.
The only time charge time matters is when you exceed 450km in a day.
Also remember this article is about Israel. Haifa to Eilat is 450km, and there's pretty much nothing longer you could drive. Any two places excluding the Negev desert you can do round trip, including e.g. Haifa to Beersheba. The borders to Lebanon and Syria are closed. Theoretically you can drive to Jordan and Egypt, but almost no one ever does. So, while in the US 300 miles might not be all one ever drives in a day, in Israel I'm pretty sure it covers most use cases :)
You're caught impersonating me c6gunner (your name's the submitter signing "APK") https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & you ALTERED /.ers PRAISE of my work (not yours you don't even HAVE).
(Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house vs. me: RIGHT ZIP? https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... )
LIAR ZIP says he has no account "I don't have an account, so I don't have mod points" https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
Yet LIAR ZIP says he downmods my posts (IMPOSSIBLE MINUS AN ACCOUNT on /.): "I down-modded a few of your post on other threads" - by Anonymous Coward "ZIP" on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:31AM (#57461058) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
APK
P.S.=> GROW UP weezils - you do it to yourselves trying to "take me on" & FAILING like you always do (especially on tech) + so then you start STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts OR by IMPERSONATING me (weak BITCH tactics only a HOMO would do, lol)... apk
When it comes to converting electricity to motion, yes. Not when you convert chemical energy to electrical energy, transmit the energy to a battery, charge the battery, discharge the battery, run it through a control unit and then run the engine. Then electrical SUCK compared to burning the fuel at the point of use. Sadly this is the way we usually use electricity in car engines. Only way to make electrical car feasible from an emission point of view is if we go massively nuclear but that is not economically feasible with todays regulations... buy a horse!
You lost your audience somewhere between "such as" and UK or Japan ...
So sad that the loss of my audience didn't include you.
Refueling a Truck takes +30minutes, refueling a bus about 20 minutes.
That would be relevant if I stated that natural gas was a great fuel for buses and trucks.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Long live Stannis Baratheon, the one true king of grammar.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Electric cars are a Jewish conspiracy aimed at neighboring Arab countries that live off oil.
There has been no public discussion of this matter in Israel - and I should know since I live here and follow the news.
While it's possible that such a measure will be taken, considering the natural gas reserves discovered off the coast - this is just fanciful thinking on the reporter's part. I challenge you to find this story in Israeli news media.
Well I live in Australia now and almost no houses have direct gas connections, and i lived in the uk for 4 years from 2004 and none of the areas i lived had gas connections to the houses.
So while the concept of home fueling of an lng car would be awesome the infrastructure for large scale fueling at home isnt there and would cost an absolute fortune to deploy.
I even have a gas hotwater system and gas stove and they are run off 45kg bottles.
You can probably afford to hire an accountant. Why don't you?
LPG is not comparable to filling up your car with natural gas. Look up some photos from WW2 in the UK to understand that, although pressure vessels offset that sonewhat. You definitely don't want to be supplying high pressure natural gas to homes as firstly it would be a huge new infrastructure cost, secondly maintenance would be problematic as failures of the infrastructure at domestic locations would be complex. I suppose you could liquify your own gas at home, but given the efficiencies of such small set ups it might well be better just to use an EV. Finally, a tank of compressed gas that is not liquified? Count me out.
It's incredibly unusual for houses in the UK not to have natural gas connections. I've lived in places like that precisely twice - student accommodation in both instances (perhaps they don't trust students with it, which is probably wise - I'm amazed we were allowed access to electricity and water).
Nobody who can actually afford an accountant would be stupid enough to ask that question.
In fact, EVs charged from coal plants still have less CO2 emissions that ICE vehicles.
The law should concentrate on the effect (pollution and renewable energy), instead of concentrating on the type of engine. The law should state that starting in 2031, all vehicles that are sold must be non-polluting, and must use renewable energy, instead of forbidding or mandating a particular technology.
What if someone came up with a way to move a vehicle, which used renewable energy, and was non-polluting, but was not powered by electricity or compressed natural gas? Should that vehicle be forbidden, because it's not an EV or CNG vehicle?
I have my doubts that by 2030 EV vehicles will even be a thing anymore. Yes I do think fossil fuel vehicles will eventually be replaced. But its going to be by a technology much better then EV's. Because EV's require way too much infrastructure to be practical and unless battery technology improves greatly. Its not the holy grail of the future.
A nuclear power plant on the other hand can be put inside a sturdy bunker.
Which is exactly why NPP's have high capital costs, the huge amount of concrete for thermal containment. Now you propose more so basically you're proposing a NPP that will never be built.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
So sad that the loss of my audience didn't include you.
Maybe he doesn't find you as boring and repetitive as the rest of your audience does.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
The power plant which generates using fossil fuels is significantly more efficient and clean than an internal combustion engine. Not only that but the source of power is getting "greener" all the time with the continual adoption of different generation technologies.
You probably also think you shouldn't end sentences with prepositions or split your infinitives.
Want some cheese with that wine?
I highly suspect you're lying but if you're not please shut up and accept your good fortune to earn that much in the first place. And on the off chance you're not lying, you also need to fire your accountant.
You're seriously claiming that legal tax-evasion via tax-havens is not a thing? Are you living under a rock? Sure, if you make all your income as a salary from a corporation, then reducing taxes on that is difficult, If you however own a corporation tax-evasion becomes easier the larger that corporation is. I mean, what do you think is the reason for basically all major multinational companies owning subsidiaries in the Caymans or other small nations with low taxes? Why do you think it is that basically all megacorps have a lower effective tax-rate on their billions of profit than you do as a employee making a million if creative accounting doesn't exist?
The way the game works when you get to the big-league depends a bit on where you're located and what you're selling but the basic idea is pretty simple and same everywhere: you setup a couple of companies, one in whichever country you're conducting business in (company A), another in a country with suitably lax tax-laws (company B). You then for example make sure that the licensing rights of the software or whatever it is that you're selling are held by the company in the tax-haven. You then do some math and figure out that after operating expenses and salaries and all, the profit of your actual company (company A) is say 100 million. Okay, you don't want to pay taxes on all of that. Well great, you just make a contractual arrangement so that company A has to pay licensing fees to company B to the tune of say, 95 million, and suddenly the profit of company A goes down to 5 million, and the 95 million gets moved to your tax-haven company that pays next to no tax on it.
Variations of this model are so common it's basically a public secret. It's how Apple & al have been dodging billions in taxes for years now. The most common of these arrangements used by US corporations especially to shield around a hundred billion from american taxation a year was known as the Double Irish that used to be combined with what the accountants call a Dutch sandwhich. Basically using Irish and Dutch tax and IP law to move massive amounts of profits from the EU to Bermuda and other tax-havens.
These schemes were forced to be closed by the European Union (American officials and government seemed not to care one bit even though the existence and use of these schemes was known for decades and even though it cost the US a lot in lost tax-revenue.) in 2014. However, Ireland, not wanting to lose all the corporate business especially on the IT-side that this loophole had brought them basically just re-instated the loophole (now known as the 'single malt' arrangement and used by for example Microsoft and probably Facebook) with slightly changed wording and application, but it's essentially still there and still used.
Hell, there's an entire wiki article on Ireland as a tax-haven, which states at the very beginning:
And Ireland is by far not the only country with such (intentional) loopholes in the laws, it's just the most commonly used. But yeah, clearly because you personally cannot avoid paying taxes on your million or so of (presumably wage) income, that means it must be impossible,
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
by good fortune you mean hard work? Ofc there is always an element of fortune but that is useless if no work has been done.
Try living in Europe... THEN come back and complain about taxes... We make you pay high taxes of the same money atleast 3 times in some situations.. So you pay one, pay again with the money that is ledt and then pay again
Ie. You inherit money your dad payed taxes from, you pay again for inheriting, you pay again when spending some of it
Storage is gasoline is much easier and cheaper than storage of electricity... You can gain some level of control by purchasing it in advance and holding it in containers.
If the grid is using your electric vehicle for storage, then it will increase the wear on your battery and could result in the battery being depleted when you expect to use the car.
If a country is using solar power for generation then not only will it generate nothing at night, the power usage will be higher due to heating in cooler countries, so the last thing you want is for your electric car to deplete its battery overnight and leave you unable to travel to work in the morning.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Depends on the source of power... If a lot of solar is being used, then the grid won't have much surplus power at night - if your car is being used to offset the lack of generation from solar plants then your car could even be empty in the morning.
That results in an unreliable vehicle, that might not be charged when you expect it to be. If your gasoline car has the fuel light on in the morning it's solely because you didn't full it up - entirely within your control.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Noting that the longest possible journey you can make in Israel (I just checked on Goggle maps) is from say Eilat on the Red Sea to Mount Hermon in the Golan Heights. It comes in at 540km which avoids the West Bank. I can't imagine that many people in Israel make that journey very often, and it's a 6.5 hour trip so there is going to be some comfort and food breaks in there which will get you over the capacity limit. So unless you like driving around in circles current EV's are more than adequate for Israel which is a fairly small country.
Note I am assuming that the opportunity to take a trip outside Israel in a car are somewhat limited due to the geopolitical situation and as such can be discounted.
The cities and towns all have gas connections, some smaller villages might not, and some apartment buildings might not have the internal pipework to support it.
In a lot of rental properties the infrastructure is all in place, it's just not used because having a gas supply introduces addition liabilities for the landlord and while electric heating is usually a lot more expensive this isn't the landlord's problem as the tenant pays for heating costs.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
by 2020
While they are less efficient than the large generators used in power plants, you are converting chemical energy directly into (mostly) kinetic energy...
For a power plant you are converting chemical energy into heat, converting the heat into kinetic energy, converting the kinetic energy into electrical energy, transmitting the electrical energy a long distance, storing it in a battery and finally converting it into kinetic energy.
Each of these steps introduces inefficiencies, so the overall difference isnt as much as people think.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
It always seems to be 12 years off ...
Well, hopefully all the pieces will be there and it will be affordable for most by then. We're getting there.
I've dreamed of electric vehicles since I was a kid; nothing against them. I do have something against commissars ordering me into one though.
Looks like they'll in reality eventually become pervasive by actually being better, not truly by fiat, which is good. 12 years from now they'll either be actually affordable and have all the pieces in place, or else the deadline will get moved out again.
Israel has a good case for eliminating readily used and transported flammable fuels - her neighbors. Not about sticking it to the oil-rich, but denying* those who would make firebombs a common fuel for such things. It won't solve everything, but it makes sense to take away what can be taken away. And auto/truck bombs don't work so well if the answer to them is to cut power so EVs cannot be (re)charged in lawless areas.
* or at least making acquisition more difficult for...
I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
CNG does produce less CO2 per BTU/joule/calorie than gasoline. However Natural Gas powered engines tend to run hot which means more NO2. Unlike CO2, NO2 is visible and fairly toxic. Even with compression, Natural Gas tends to take up a lot of volume -- which often mean somewhat less payload space. One other drawback is that Natural Gas is probably more likely to catch fire in an accident than gasoline or diesel.
Presumably all that can be dealt with.
But all in all CNG is probably a perfectly OK vehicle fuel. It's widely used only in Iran and Pakistan I think.
======
Israel isn't very big -- about the size of New Jersey, and it's neighbors aren't very friendly, so the problem of recharging pure EVs on long trips possibly will be minimal. Israeli's likely won't be taking long trips any time soon?
Maybe this plan isn't as ditzy as it sounds.
But I personally would be a lot happier if my fire trucks were powered by liquid hydrocarbons that can be refueloed from a can or barrel.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
Today you learned: Political motivations are pop culture parasites.
I agree partially, but also disagree. Is taxation a good method of wealth distribution? Hell no! It's a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. But-- does that mean we should simply sit back and do nothing? No.
If we had a healthy, vibrant free-market, then competition amongst business owners would be such that there would be few or no [m/b]illionaires. We need caps on size of businesses in order to encourage more entrepreneurship and reduce corporate consolidation.
But of course, everyone would rather argue about whether to prescribe whisky or pills for the pain.
I don't remember seeing a 100% tank before.
Pretty trivial to solve tbh. If its a smart meter for an ev then having it charge to 75% and then go into storage mode would be simple. That gives you a min range level. (Configurable ofcourse)
As for charging at night vs day you would nornally do a mix of renewables with a base load generator. Solar will be offline at night but wind wont be, and power demand is a lower at night as well meaning smaller changes in supply have bigger effects.
During the day there will still be a % of evs connected to the network. Either those ar home or those on work charging systems.
Must have been because they were rentals in the uk then.
Its not something used here is aus though
Fucking Heebs turned into Nazis. FREE PALESTINE!
Unless if it's coal. So basically depends on the local source of power generation. Are Electric Cars Worse For The Environment? Myth Busted
Life is not for the lazy.
It should also be worth considering that an EV's power train should be significantly less complicated than that of an ICE vehicle. Less complicated/less moving parts = easier and less costly to maintain. It can also result in a smaller footprint necessary for the vehicle, although most people seem to have a thing against vehicles that don't have the same form factor as traditional cars.
I made over a million last year, will again the next 3 years. I paid over 50% in taxes.
The highest federal tax rate is 39.6%. That rate is only applied to amounts over $500k, probably giving you an effective federal tax rate of around 29%. You would have had to pay over 21% in state and local taxes to pay over 50% total. So a large part of your problem with taxes is that you choose to live in an area with higher local taxes than typical.
Switching to EVs does very little good if 95% of your electricity generation is via fossil fuels.
Ah yes. Can't talk about EVs on Slashdot without somebody claiming that they pollute as much or more than gasoline burning cars because, whatever. And again, I point out that there are excellent reasons for moving to electric vehicles that have nothing to do with pollution reduction. I guess I'm going to have to spell this out for you, but given how many petroleum producing countries aren't friendly to Israel and at least one questions its right to even exist, it seems logical to me for Israel to move away from dependence on those countries.
It turns out that most ICEs convert about 20-30% of their chemical energy into kinetic energy, with the rest going to heat.
To use the numbers in an earlier post, it takes about 112MJ of energy to get from oil in the ground to moving an electric car 100km, but it takes 169MJ of energy to get from the ground to moving a gasoline car 100km. The electric car uses two thirds the amount of oil and puts its polution far away from the city.
Keep in mind that's an oil-to-oil comparison. As centralized power generation gets cleaner and more renewable with solar and wind, the electric car comes out looking even better. When your energy comes from wind it only takes 43MJ to go 100km and there's essentially no pollution.
Obviously there are many variables, but gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's hard for them to come out on top.
dom
Do you live in your car? I don't understand the "hurr durr, it takes time to charge" argument. Don't you ever fucking PARK your car? Are you CONSTANTLY driving it every hour of the day? Do you never fucking sleep?
Switching to EVs does very little good if 95% of your electricity generation is via fossil fuels. All you're doing is shifting the CO2 emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack.
This move, in the 2018-2030 time frame is not intended to eliminate CO2 emissions from motor vehicles in Israel (though in the longer run it is absolutely the path to get there).
You need to look at Israel's plans for providing electricity in 2030 also. At that point their power will be 80% natural gas, 20% renewables (they are eliminating their use of coal entirely). Natural gas is a fossil fuel, but in a combined cycle plant it drastically reduces CO2 emissions compared to ICE vehicles (see below) to only 38% of the present emissions, so yes it moves the ball way forward.
The overall energy efficiency of EVs powered by fossil fuels is barely better than ICE vehicles
Now you are just making yourself look like a fool. The efficiency of natural gas combined cycle plants is expected to hit 65% in the next decade (i.e. before 2030), whereas ICE vehicles are limited to about 21% efficiency. Throw in a generous 5% transmission loss (small country, short transmission distances), and a 90% charge to wheel efficiency for 2030 era EVs, and you still have an overall efficiency of 55%. "Barely better", sheesh.
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
The average commute time in th United States is 26 minutes one way. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but the fact is that an EV would be suitable vehicle for most Americans. Not all, but most.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Long live Stannis Baratheon
Grammar is an orphan, SB died at the end of season 5.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
This is the first time I hear about this. Has anyone written about this in our own country's newspapers in hebrew?
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Ok, found one http://www.bizportal.co.il/gen...
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
I wonder...if you're a programmer, and X and Y are integers, do you pronounce a relational expression of "XY" as "X is fewer than Y"?
Ezekiel 23:20
All you're doing is shifting the CO2 emissions from the tailpipe to the smokestack.
Think about that "all" for a bit. Also the "CO2" in front of "emissions". You get to shift 100% of tailpipe emissions of all types, not just CO2, out of city centres and suburbs to large scale powerplants that can run at maximum efficiency with much more effective scrubbers. That's a set of major gains right there.
... and then you can swap out that set of large scale fossil fuel burning power plant for something with a much lower carbon footprint and enjoy an even large set of major gains.
The parent is talking about NG for electricity generation, not in cars, which is more more efficient.
Israel is small enough that current EVs should be able to go border-to-border on a single charge. Given that range anxiety is one of the major reasons why people don't want EVs, it seems a small country can convert much more easily.
It's amazing that they have only 100 electric cars in the entire country, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg has more EVs that that.
and it's just about to go kaput. That's 15 years more. When it dies there's a good chance it'll be parted out to keep other 25 year old cars running. It might even make it down to Mexico. Ever see those pictures of cars in Cuba? Those things are from the 60s and still going.
It's not impossible to do that with an EV, but it requires a lot more tech that poor don't necessarily have access to. About the only thing I can't do on my car is the engine & transmission overhaul, but that's mostly due to a lack of skill. I knew lots of poor blue collar guys who could do their own engines and a few that did their own transmissions. The trouble with Battery packs is cost. Lots of specialized gear and chemicals. It's not just steel and iron. You can't just brute force it with welding and ingenuity. You need the tech, which the poor don't have. So when that car dies instead of spending 2 or 3 weekends rebuilding a transmission they'll have to come up with $2k+ to get a battery professionally rebuilt.
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I wanted to see someone from outside the system take the reins for a while and shake things up.
How's that going? Is the swamp drained yet?
Yup, he drained it straight into his administration. One of Trump's greatest achievements.
There are typically two moving parts in the electric powertrain. The rotor, and the single reduction gear it drives. Usually, a single motor drives two wheels so a few more gears for implementing the differential. Pedants may count some more moving parts in the form of ball bearings and such. Still, the entertainment system has more moving parts than the powertrain - at least if a cd player is involved.
The average commute time in th United States is 26 minutes one way. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but the fact is that an EV would be suitable vehicle for most Americans. Not all, but most.
It would be a suitable vehicle for most Americans who have a dedicated commute vehicle. But once you decide to make a trip to pretty much anywhere else, you rapidly find that our population is spread out enough to make EVs a problem anywhere there is not a fast-charging network. Anywhere Tesla hasn't built that network, it doesn't exist, and no other vehicles can use their chargers.
While it's true that a lot more people could be driving EVs than are now, it's hardly the massive percentage for the USA that it is for most other nations, where population densities are much higher and trips tend to be shorter.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Dumping to heat? Bitcoin mining?
ICEs can only use fossil fuels or biofuels (which are problematic in many cases),
That's not strictly true. They can also run on hydrogen produced by electrolysis, although it's stupid to do so. Or you can use large amounts of electricity to make fuel from the air, which can be hydrogen or hydrocarbon.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I am a EE and I also have a JD ( law degree, patent law ) and I voted for Trump. Not all who voted for Trump were idiots,
True. Some were merely morally corrupt shitbags who figured he'd make them richer, and who didn't give a crap anyone anyone but themselves. Every single person who decided to support Trump is also supporting racism and rape, and there's literally no way around that simple fact.
I voted for Trump because I wanted to see someone from outside the system take the reins for a while and shake things up.
And it was okay with you if they were a racist rapist who even before they became president cost the USA millions of dollars in court costs through deliberately manipulative and fraudulent business practices.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You're caught impersonating me c6gunner (your name's the submitter signing "APK") https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & you ALTERED /.ers PRAISE of my work (not yours you don't even HAVE).
(Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house vs. me: RIGHT ZIP? https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... )
LIAR ZIP says he has no account "I don't have an account, so I don't have mod points" https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
Yet LIAR ZIP says he downmods my posts (IMPOSSIBLE MINUS AN ACCOUNT on /.): "I down-modded a few of your post on other threads" - by Anonymous Coward "ZIP" on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:31AM (#57461058) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
APK
P.S.=> GROW UP weezils - you do it to yourselves trying to "take me on" & FAILING like you always do (especially on tech) + so then you start STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts OR by IMPERSONATING me (weak BITCH tactics only a HOMO would do, lol)... apk
Interesting but irrelevant. I was comparing natural gas burned in generating plants to gasoline burned in ICEs.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
By 2023, legacy car makers should be in deep trouble. I doubt that ppl will buy many new gas/diesel vehicles. With that said, we really should make exceptions for military, EMS, and true off-road vehicles. But, we should require they be series hybrid.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
should be significantly less complicated...
Should?
Where have you been living over the last 10 years? In a cave somewhere?
They are significantly less complicated. And on top of that, regenerative breaking is extending the life of brakes on the order of the life of the car. Maybe one brake job every 10 years/100k miles. Or even less often.
Talking to some EV owners, they all noted that they had to get used to refilling their windshield washer fluid again. Why? Because they used to take their car in for service often enough that the shop kept it topped off. With their EV, that's the most frequent maintenance that needs to be done. Tire rotations are the next one. After that.....there's nothing. No oil changes, no coolent, no transmission....
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
Which is exactly why NPP's have high capital costs, the huge amount of concrete for thermal containment. Now you propose more so basically you're proposing a NPP that will never be built.
In Israel they have limited choices for energy. The nation is effectively an island because they are not on good terms with their neighbors. Building a "super-grid" like has been proposed in North America and the EU is not politically practical, making the inherently distributed solar and wind power not all that viable. Building windmills and solar panels inside their borders, when they are under near constant bombardment from their neighbors, means they'd have to keep repairing those solar collectors and windmills. I'm not saying they can't have any solar and wind power, only that they know building it within rocket range of its neighbors would be a bad idea for reliable power. Israel doesn't have a lot of oil and coal but they did find a lot of natural gas, as stated in the fine article. Much of the oil and coal they burn is imported.
If Israel wants energy independence then they need to produce what they can inside their own borders. Given their options that means lots of natural gas, lots of nuclear power, and a small bit of oil, wind, and solar.
I agree that building a hardened nuclear power plant would be expensive. I don't see a whole lot of other options. If Israel can't have nuclear power then they run the risk of running out of energy real quick. They've been living off of the good relations from the USA, UK, and other allies, for their energy. They must know that this cannot last forever, and their natural gas supplies cannot last forever either. Many of the nations in the Middle East have been stating an intention to build nuclear power, including Iran. This will mean they will want it too.
Any power plant is a prime target in Israel. A nuclear power plant would be no different. I'm guessing that they protect them very well inside bunkers. If they can afford a hardened natural gas power plant then they can afford nuclear power.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
The average commute time in th United States is 26 minutes one way. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but the fact is that an EV would be suitable vehicle for most Americans. Not all, but most.
I would think a lot of families could have one of each for a while. Keep the EV for work days and the gas engine for weekend/longer trips.
reduce taxation on electric cars to almost zero, so they are going to be much cheaper,
until they jack up the taxes again once adoption rates reach 50% "Where did our revenue go!?"
But I personally would be a lot happier if my fire trucks were powered by liquid hydrocarbons that can be refueloed from a can or barrel.
Why? Do you think they're going to drive 300 miles to a fire?
Fire trucks are one very good example of something that should be electric. Simplified power train so it's far more reliable, will last a lot longer, and requires a lot less maintenance. They don't tend to travel very far, so there's no worry about having to recharge. And they're big and heavy, and need a ton of torque to get moving.
Other than taxis in stop-and-go traffic and garbage trucks, I can't think of something better to have as an EV.
Seriously - in most urban/suburban areas, there's a fire station every few miles. In the little city I live in, I just counted 14 fire stations in a 10 mile radius.
Maybe electric won't work way out in the country where fire trucks have to travel 100 miles to fight a fire, but I can't imagine that there are many places where that's true.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
He's not under a rock he's in his moms basement he's not a millionaire.
I said should because I didn't feel like researching half a dozen articles to back up my claim and half remembered hearsay. I also don't have empirical data on hand to back up my maintenance claims. You see, when I make assumptions I don't make my statements as if they were facts even if I have common sense reasoning to back them up.
Yup. There's obviously tons of important ancillary benefits that come prior to this stage as well: less noise, less vibration damage, less brake dust, etc. And there's also lower CO2 due to cars lasting longer because fewer moving parts.
Ev cars are full everytime you get in them in the morning.
Theres no getting in the car with the fuel light on. For most people and most usage cases a daily range of 450km is more than enough. It doesnt really matter if it takes 6 hrs to charge if youre asleep.
Wait what? How the hell does that happen?
I get what you're saying but you know it's not magic, right. You'll need the have the charging station installed and a place where to install it, which many people without their own garages don't have. And of course you also need to pay actual money for the electricity.
Because if you didn't, everyone would "inherit" all the time. No loophole for you.
No joke, no irony.. It's going so much better than I possibly imagined.
48 RINOs were ejected from office or "retired" because they are unelectable.
The Democrats couldn't retake the Senate, and barely took the House. Obama lost 69 House seats and 13 Senate seats under identical conditions, and he wasn't even literally Hitler.
Two Supreme Court justices.. Maybe 3?
More judicial appointments in two years than Obama's 8?
Our government is no longer talking about prosecuting people for misgendering the mentally ill.
The economy is the best it has been in over 50 years.
You are fucking retarded if you think things are going badly.
> Voted for Clinton
> Believes he doesn't support racism and rape
"Why? Do you think they're going to drive 300 miles to a fire?"
That actually happens sometimes. But the problem is that in the case of major disasters like California's wildfires a truck may be on the firelines literally for days. And if it's pumping water, it'll go through a lot of fuel. It is much better to bring the fuel to the truck than to pull the truck offline to recharge it.
Same with military vehicles BTW
Ambulances, not so much. They need to return to base often anyway. But the long recharge time of current batteries might be a problem in a real disaster.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
Nope, then "X is less than Y" sounds correct. That's the fun thing; by changing it to "what sounds correct", you lose consistency.
It may be because the fewer/less distinction was drilled into my head at a younger age. But, contextually, one is making a statement, and the other an evaluation.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
I'm not a 1%, but I have made several million in software development.
Can confirm, taxed over 50% in real dollars, and definitely very discouraging.
Also straight ticket Democrat voter. Just hate their fiscal policy.
Don't spread misinformation, studies showed that electric cars even when powered by fossil fuels generated electricity are cleaner then gasoline - and this is the starting point, which can only get better with more renewable energy, not to mention direct health benefits for all the urban dwellers and commuters.
https://greentransportation.in... From the article: "... Repeatedly studies have shown even if the electricity comes from coal, electric cars are cleaner than gasoline ..."
You're missing electricity transmission efficiency (about 95%), battery charge efficiency (about 80%, less for quick-charges), battery discharge efficiency (can't find measurements for it since it's incorporated into the EPA kWh consumption, but usually it's about the same as charging efficiency), and electric motor efficiency (about 90%).
I did the calculations here.. Based on EPA energy consumption figures (kWh and gallons) for nearly identical vehicles (Nissan Leaf vs Versa), EVs powered with fossil fuels use slightly less energy than ICE gasoline vehicles. About 19%-25% of the energy in the fuel makes it to the wheels for EVs, vs 17%-23% ICE gasoline. Diesel ICE vehicles are slightly more efficient (25%+).
Here are a few possible reasons why we have so few electric cars in the country currently:
- We had this company called 'Better Place' that was building an electric car infrastructure, gas cars converted to electric, battery swapping stations, charging stations, etc.
It ended up going out of business, which I guess left a bad taste in people's mouths.
- A lot of tax money comes from gas and car sales, so the government is not incentivized to encourage EVs.
Plus, cars are expensive already, without incentives you'd have to be really rich to be able to afford something like a Telsa Model S.
- Most people live in apartments and park in the street, so they don't get the advantage of charging overnight, and would have to wait the half hour it would take to charge an EV a reasonable amount at a charging station.
- I guess for a company like Tesla, who does business with our neighbors, it might be more trouble than it's worth getting bad press in the Arab world for doing business with us.
Israel is a tiny country, really, so it's not a big deal really, but face it: internal combustion engines must go the way of the (dead) dinosaurs (that have been fueling them). Fossil fuels were always a limited resource, it'll run out eventually, and we see how destructive using it is in the long run. Just relax, ICE fans, you'll still have high-horsepower vehicles, and easier than with ICEs, and the maintenance will be a tiny fraction of what it used to be. Trust me, you'll like it just as much if not more so.
Unless you have to go to work and then grandmas then the mall then back to grandmas then home. It's good that most Americans only drive to work.
British Columbia will be at 80 percent electric vehicles for all new car and truck purchases by 2020.
2030 means Israel will be way too hot.
No, hotter.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Lol, racism and rape. I'll give you prostitution for sure. But racism and rape? Help me out with that one.
Let's talk about the Clintons though. You know, Bill who paid all that hush money to the many women he raped over the years. Or Hillary to this day who lets a racist comment slip every now and then.
"I know they all look alike." -Clinton on blacks, Oct. 2018
RINO is an odd term. Nothing defines what a Republican really is, so we have today a president with almost zero resemblance to classical Republicans with fans who accuse everyone who disagrees with him to not be a real Republican. Ronald Reagan would be a RINO in your eyes I suspect.
The economy is based upon the previous decade for the most part. In two years nobody can turn an economy around. It started bad at the start of Obama's presidency and was slowly making gains through today. When the economy looks good, Trump makes tax cuts which is bizarre because that's something done when times are bad to give a short term boost. But the cuts just aren't very large and there's no way to pay for them (tariffs may do this in a roundabout way but will hurt the economy in turn). And the economy is not the best in 50 years, the economy sucks unless you only look at official figures which discount a lot of real world effects - homelessness seems to be up and salaries have stayed stagnant in relation to inflation.
I think a key difference is that after paying taxes in Europe you generally have something to show for it - education, healthcare, economic safety nets, and a higher standard of living. In the US you don't see as much coming back to you.
Having designed plans and specs for gas piping systems including gas booster pumps to take the utility's low pressure service (6"WC) to an HVAC system's "medium pressure" distribution (2 psig), I can tell you that a small booster pump can cost around $20,000 to buy and as much as double that including installation. Natural gas pumps for a car would be lower capacity, so smaller, but would need much higher pressure (around 3,000 psig), and would require even more specialized installation, maintenance, and safety requirements. And you'd still might have some range issues, as you can't really store that much compressed gas in a reasonably sized tank.
You know, fire trucks have pumps in them that might need to operate for hours while putting out fires. And many kinds of fire trucks have hydraulics running off the engines for things like ladders. Operating in rural areas away from easy sources of sufficient electrical power is not that unusual. Also the considerable work that would be required to convert field-proven diesel designs to all electric likely makes the proposed change unappealing to those in the business. So I'm not sure that they're the best example of what can easily be converted to batteries.
Most people won't want their cars to only provide 75% of their intended range, they will turn that feature off.
Wind may be on at night, but there's no guarantee - if it's a calm night you wont be getting any power from wind or solar. If it's too stormy wind turbines are shut down too, in order to prevent damage.
The % of EVs connected to the grid will be highly variable, just like wind and solar power. You will end up having to massively over provision capacity to cope with the worst case scenarios.
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You appear to be motivated to overlook some simple answers. Most homes in Israel have solar hot water heaters - they are cheap, reliable, and nobody blows them up cuz there's millions of them. Why not add a few panels next to the existing solar setups? You could provide energy when it is most needed, not a big target.
It would be smart for a country with a siege mentality to gravitate towards distributed generation. I'd be shocked if Israel didn't embrace this - looks like this new policy is heading in that direction.
Man, you really need that seminar!
Really. Another way to marginalise the oppressed.
The fact that your comment was modded insightful is testament too exactly how far our society has fallen.
Guess what. I'm a first generation immigrant Jew who at one point was on welfare and Medicaid. I also voted for Trump... not because I liked him, but because I moved out of the Soviet Union, and don't really fancy the US turning into it's equivalent.
Owners of EVs do keep their cars charged to less than full. If you own a tesla they recommend keeping it less than fully charged to the batts last longer.
My 2 mates that own Tesla S both have theirs charge to less than full. They have theirs set to about 300ish KM range each morning and if they plan to go further they set it to full charge the night before.
Total capacity of EVs on the network may vary wildly, but they aren't generation sources. They are excess capacity dumps. You would still have heat dumps for use if shedding is required.
There will always be situations where a particular location isn't generating, but when you have a country wide grid the chances of having everything down is low. You also are able to plan for these things. Pumped storage, network level batteries, rapid cycle gas power plants etc are all part of your network design. The challenge with renewables is the storage component. Storage costs are currently too high, but potentially EVs could be the solution to that.
Highly unlikely that would come anywhere near close to range of an EV.
Apparantly average annual mileage for americans is ~ 22,500km or 62km per day. A tesla has a range of 7 to 8 times that before you need to charge. Is doing a 450km drive in a day, even a semi-regular occurrence? Thats a full tank of fuel for most cars.
Auto correct sucks btw. Its vs it's etc...
Electricity for an EV in Australia is $1 per day to a connection in your house. I assume that people have somewhere they park their vehicles where you live? Garage, Car ports / driveways? Unallocated street parking is more of a challenge and would require either allocation or some kind of municipal connection.
Obviously though my post referred to having the car plugged in over night.
I don't think anyone is suggesting having the evs depleted. Having 5% of the total capacity of your EV available for network storage would have a massive impact on the total storage available on the network if all cars were electric.
Also no country is going to only go solar, its a flawed argument to suggest that. There will always be a mix of solar, wind, and others in order to share the generation around. That other will be coal or nuclear or gas for the foreseeable future. But if you can load shift your renewables via storage your requirement for always on baseload will drop.
It's not a silver bullet but it all helps.
If you travel at 150km/h for three hours you can consume your tank of fuel. I can't really imagine that this kind of driving is a semi-regular occurrence for the majority. The only group that regularly do these distances are delivery drivers.
"It is much better to bring the fuel to the truck than to pull the truck offline to recharge it.
Excellent idea. Have a trailer of batteries brought by an auxiliary vehicle The new batteries can either be plugged into the fire truck as-is or some form of battery swap could be done.. Repeat as often as necessary. A gen-set trailer is also an option which could use the same electrical connection as a battery trailer. Plenty of options.
The right get richer and everyone else gets stuck footing the bill.
Soooo....you know how you don't like absurd over-simplifications? And you know how you then said "Happiness is EARNED"? Don't you think that might be an, um, absurd over-simplification? Or do you think babies should not be happy?
Yes, I think you are an adult baby and you earned happiness with this post. Beyond that I have no idea wtf you are talking about
Nobody cares. Go away.
Local delivery trucks, especially USPS trucks.
It's scandalous that the USPS is looking for a new truck and isn't looking at EVs.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
You appear to be motivated to overlook some simple answers.
I did not overlook the simple answers. I've been studying the energy problem for a long time, soaking in all kinds of differing opinions for years. Solar power is simply insufficient to run a first world nation. There's nothing wrong with putting up some solar panels, and there are plenty in Israel. What they will still need is natural gas and nuclear power.
I've seen the math and there is no way to maintain a modern economy without nuclear power. Do the math yourself. Here's a website made by people that did the math and explained why nuclear power must be part of the energy policy of any nation that wants to have a modern economy: http://www.roadmaptonowhere.co...
There are no simple answers. What I've found is that there is no solution to our future energy needs that does not include nuclear power. Distributed generation might sound nice but it destroys any economy of scale. The world will need big efficient power plants or the lights go out, this includes Israel.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
The economy is based upon the previous decade for the most part. In two years nobody can turn an economy around. It started bad at the start of Obama's presidency and was slowly making gains through today. When the economy looks good, Trump makes tax cuts which is bizarre because that's something done when times are bad to give a short term boost.
Those tax cuts are costing the USA $1 trillion per year (and counting...)
It's hard for the economy not to go up when you inject $2 trillion into it.
The question is: Who's going to repay that loan?
(You can bet it's going to be the main job of the Democrat that follows Trump, and he'll get the blame for all the bad news).
I only hope that Trump gets reelected and has to deal with the fallout himself in his second term.
No sig today...
"B-b-but we should have elected Hillary, because the only way to save the economy is to raise taxes and import millions of uneducated welfare recipients," you sniveled.
And yet you gleefully praised Obama's improving the economy and showered him with Nobel Peace prizes within 2 months of taking office.
I thought you people were supposed to be the smart ones.
Speaking of Nazis!
Agreed.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
I'm a first generation immigrant Jew who at one point was on welfare and Medicaid. I also voted for Trump... not because I liked him, but because I moved out of the Soviet Union, and don't really fancy the US turning into it's equivalent.
So in spite of having moved out of the soviet union where the Nazis were primarily defeated, you voted for a white supremacist who is pushing us in the direction of Nazism, because you didn't want to see the USA turn into the USSR? A soviet republic is too much for you, but the Fourth Reich is A-OK?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Lol, racism and rape.
Wow, you're a shitlord.
I'll give you prostitution for sure. But racism and rape? Help me out with that one.
He's clearly racist, only racists in denial about their own racism are still in denial about that. Trump's a white nationalist, just like his father, who was a known member of the KKK. You can tell he's racist by his racist policies, not just through supposition. We know him by his actions. As for rape, he raped one of his former wives. It only wasn't legally rape because, unlike civilized states, a husband was legally incapable of raping his wife at the time. There are still several states in this country where women give up bodily autonomy when they get married. That's just another way slavery has remained with us.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You have no idea what I'm talking about? Surely you can't be that stupid. Surely no-one can. The point is blindingly obvious: if happiness is earned, then babies can't have access to happiness, because they have yet to do anything to earn that happiness. And given that you're apparently ridiculously stupid, let me state for the avoidance of doubt that I'm using the word "earn" in the same sense you originally used it: not actual financial earnings, but actions that are deserving of reward (in this case, happiness). Babies can't act in that way. Which goes to show you are a hypocrite, complaining about absurd over-simplification and then making an absurd over-simplification of your own in the very same post.
All those fancy degrees, and you had to resort to ad hominem because, in your own words, you had "no idea wtf [I was] talking about". I mean, if you're as clever as you think you are, you should be able to figure out what I meant even if it didn't make sense to you at first reading, even if you thought the logic was all twisted -- and then respond to it with some kind of piercingly brilliant argument that lanced straight through the heart of my assertions. Instead, you had to resort to the sort of thing a 5 year old would find a bit childish: "talking about babies? Hah, well you're just a great big baby yourself". I mean, c'mon dude. Have some self-respect: if you're going to use an insult because you can't think of an argument, at least use an insult consonant with your expensive education.
Most my left leaning friends and I were pretty perplexed about the Peace Prize award. Even President Obama was perplexed by it.
Also the Norwegian Nobel Committee selects the winners so Americans can't really shower him with it...
That would be relevant if I stated that natural gas was a great fuel for buses and trucks.
If you did not, then you should add it to your arguments list, as it actually is a perfect fuel.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I like nuclear power, but it isn't feasible in the current political climate. Also wind/solar/bats are becoming so cheap and good they're already cheaper and will continue to become more so.
You can run a boat, RV or house with wind/solar/bats for not much money right now. Entire countries are planning on this in the near future. Try to open your mind to what is possible, and what is already happening. The economies of scale are in the factories making the equipment. You don't need the power to be all in one place, that makes the problem of distribution offset economies of scale.
Man, you really need that seminar!
Stop mass murder, mass incarceration and violation of every human right there is. Israel needs to be dismantled. Send Israelis home to Europe, Russia, North America, wherever and leave the indigenous populations alone. The white Sparta colony is not wanted nor needed.
There is no way the car (traction battery) owner is not going to get screwed by the power companies in this deal.
The other problem is the extra expense of implementing bidirectional power conversion at each charger and car whether it is used or not. At least it gets used with a stationary battery bank.
The average commute time in th United States is 26 minutes one way. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions, but the fact is that an EV would be suitable vehicle for most Americans. Not all, but most.
I agree and the part I find amusing about this is that short range EVs which meet this requirement will make longer commutes less economical. This will hurt rural areas.
I like nuclear power, but it isn't feasible in the current political climate.
The political climate changes, the laws of physics do not. There is no future with our current standard of living that does not include nuclear power.
Also wind/solar/bats are becoming so cheap and good they're already cheaper and will continue to become more so.
Nuclear power will get cheaper too. One problem is that there is a bottom end on all these technologies, and that is the cost of materials. Nuclear power takes less materials for energy produced than any other energy source we have today. Source: http://cmo-ripu.blogspot.com/2018/08/why-i-favor-nuclear-power.html
The only thing making nuclear power more expensive than wind and solar power is the political climate. Given the inherent shortcomings in wind, solar, and batteries, the politics on nuclear power will shift as the materials needed for these energy sources become painfully apparent.
You can run a boat, RV or house with wind/solar/bats for not much money right now. Entire countries are planning on this in the near future. Try to open your mind to what is possible, and what is already happening. The economies of scale are in the factories making the equipment. You don't need the power to be all in one place, that makes the problem of distribution offset economies of scale.
Open my mind? Look in a mirror. You've closed your mind to the option of nuclear power as a future energy source. I agree that there is a political problem with nuclear power but that's really the only problem it has. Nuclear power is safe, inexpensive, reliable, low resource, and low CO2. I've opened my mind to what's possible and if you do the math a world powered by wind, solar, and batteries is not possible. Well, not possible unless we lower our standard of living and/or our population.
I have seen what's happening. Germany, UK, and so many other nations are seeing their plans of a "green" future without nuclear power fail. And fail miserably. There is no future without nuclear power. We can have our wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, batteries, and whatever else too but nuclear will have to be part of that mix or it all falls apart.
Don't open your mind so wide your brains fall out. Do the math on the materials and labor needed for a future powered by wind and sun, compare that to a future with nuclear power in there, and you will see why we cannot rule out nuclear power. Here's a link to a website that did that math: http://www.roadmaptonowhere.com/
You say nuclear power is impossible in the current political climate? Well, the politicians will have to change their minds soon because the global climate can't wait for the wind and sun to save us.