The Story of Lenny, the Internet's Favorite Telemarketing Troll (vice.com)

dmoberhaus writes: Here's a conversation with the developer who maintains the public server for Lenny, a robocalling algorithm that throws telemarketers through a loop. Lenny was created in 2009 and almost a decade later has developed a cult following online. Anyone can forward their telemarketing calls to Lenny, who is a kind and forgetful old man who is interested in whatever the telemarketer is selling. Some telemarketers stay on the line for up to an hour interacting with this chatbot, leading to hundreds of hours of hilarious recordings on YouTube. This is the story of Lenny's rise, and an analysis of its effectiveness at stopping unsolicited calls.

Comments

Huh?

[Evtim]

What telemarketers? I have had zero such calls on the mobile in 17 years. Do we have some kind of privacy protection in Europe? I guess so....

I have had 4-5 calls in the same time period on the land line [the number is public] either from credit card companies or energy providers. Since I don't use it anymore that's gone too. However, recently I did get a call on the mobile from an energy provider trying to convince me to change, but I kicked such a fuss about it that I hope they blacklisted the number forever.

Re: Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting story. Lenny was written by a recluse who lives in the entire top third of an apartment building overlooking the Atlantic Ocean. The author wrote Lenny during breaks from cleaning his rooftop pool, hosting dinner parties, and working in his multi-story greenhouse and butterfly warren. The idea came to him one day when he noticed that he hadnâ(TM)t watered this one plant in many days and yet it was blooming as fresh as could be. He said hey I wonder if I could make a chat it that is impervious to telemarketers, much as the flower was impervious to drought.

Re:Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Do we have some kind of privacy protection in Europe? I guess so....

No, you don't, since the calls often originate from countries friendly to telephone spam and European law doesn't apply to India or Nigeria no matter how big the EU thinks they are. Sure, they're routed through a local VoIP box to save on long distance, and European law will shut down that VoIP box, but I think you know just how many minutes it takes to build a replacement.

What does work in your favour is calling European cell phones isn't free.

Re:Huh?

[Bigbutt]

I put my phones on Do Not Disturb a while back. I see the occasional spam scumbag call from everywhere in the country if my phone's in front of me but seldom do these immoral douchbags who need to take a long time dying after a horrible car accident in which their family burns to death, leave a message.

Sadly I get them at work too and I have to answer those calls. I've taken to answering, "Good morning, this is [John], what is your emergency?" which seems to turn into a lot of hangups (we have internal caller-id so I don't worry about saying that for some coworker or manager and I'm, likely justifiably, not customer facing).

[John]

Re:Huh?

[petermgreen]

The USA and EU (at least the parts of it i'm familiar with) set up their phone systems differently.

In the USA mobile phones get ordinary geopgrahic phone numbers and the amount charged by the receiving telco to the originating telco is the same for landlines and mobiles. The recipiant pays (either explicitly or as part of the cost of their plan) for the call to be delievered from the terrestrial phone network to their mobile.

In most if not all of the EU mobile phones get phone numbers from a special range. The recipiant doesn't pay anything for incoming calls (unless they are roaming outside Europe or are diverting a landline number to a mobile or some other unusal corner case). Instead the originating telco pays more for a call to a mobile than for a call to a landline.

This has two effects, firstly there is the direct cost impact on the telemarketers. Secondly it means they can't claim (truthfully or otherwise) ignorance about the fact that the number they are calling is a mobile.

Re:Huh?

[ShanghaiBill]

What telemarketers? I have had zero such calls on the mobile in 17 years. Do we have some kind of privacy protection in Europe?

Yes. First, most telemarketers are trying to get a CC#. European credit cards have chip+PIN, so the number alone is not enough to steal money like it is in America.

Second, most telemarketing calls originate in low wage countries such as India and the Philippines, and caller-id spoofing to make it look like a local call is much more restricted outside of America.

Third, in America the cell phone network is directly overlayed onto the landline system. There is no way to look at a number and know if it is a cell or a LL. In most other countries, cell phones use a different numbering system, and there are greater restrictions on auto-calls to cell phones.

Fourth, the political system in America does not respond to diffuse issues that are not geographically or ideologically important. So politicians focus on wedge issues like who uses which toilet, and ignore issues like massive telemarketing fraud and identity theft that affects millions of people regardless of their political affiliation. Fixing these problems is not even on the political radar.

Fifth, America speaks English. If you are going to set up a 3rd world call center, it is far easier to do so for English, which many people learn and there are hundreds of millions of people to call. Where in the 3rd world are you going to hire German, or Swedish, or Polish speakers?

Bottom line: American is a big lucrative market with many fraud-friendly laws and policies. Crooks go where the money is.

Re: Huh?

[c6gunner]

Wrong.

mobile
adjective
1. able to move or be moved freely or easily.
"he has a weight problem and is not very mobile"
2. relating to mobile phones, handheld computers, and similar technology.
"the next generation of mobile networks"

noun
1. a decorative structure that is suspended so as to turn freely in the air.
"brightly coloured mobiles rotated from the ceiling"
2. BRITISH. a mobile phone.
"we telephoned from our mobile to theirs"

Re: Huh?

[Miamicanes]

The WAY card chips get used in the US is different from Europe, even though it's (more or less) the same underlying hardware.

In the US, chips attest that SOMEONE (probably) had physical possession of the card at the time of a first transaction (as opposed to merely knowing its number, or cloning its mag stripe. In Europe, they go a step further & attest (via PIN) that the authorized user was likely to be the one who intended the transaction.

Contrary to popular belief, signatures do nothing to directly validate credit card purchases at the time of transaction. Nobody compares the signature on file or on the back, because it's too wildly unreliable in both directions -- they're easy for someone who's seen your signature to forge, and most people's signatures aren't consistent over time anyway.

The purpose signatures DO serve is to *massively* amplify the legal consequences of fraud if you do it and get caught.

The entire US financial system depends not (directly) upon transaction-time security, but on the ability of banks to absorb temporary & permanent losses so it can focus on after-the-fact retaliation & punishment (poor credit scores, penalty fees, clawbacks, lawsuits, and/or criminal prosecution) to deter abuse by most over the long term, regardless of what happens from day to day.

The problem with PIN codes gets amplified in the US, because WE tend to have people with lots of low & medium-limit cards. In places like Germany, someone is more likely to have only one or two cards with higher-than-US limits. Somebody with a dozen cards can't be expected to remember a dozen random PIN codes... they'll either use the same PIN for "everything", or write them down (both of which compromise their value to such a degree, they ultimately add little real security & lots of headachej anyway).

Re: Huh?

[ShanghaiBill]

PINs have nothing to do with credit cards. You are confusing them with debit cards.

Outside the United States, both debit and credit cards use PINs.

Works great for my mother in law

[Anonymous Coward]

Lenny takes calls from my mother in law at least twice a week. The hours they have spent bonding has really helped strengthen my relationship with my wife's family.

Useful info

[BringsApples]

FCC Telemarketer and robocall blacklist

Instructions as to how to "use" Lenny.

Re:Oversimplification of telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

but there are also telemarketers that are actually following the law and just trying to do their job

Who gives a fuck? Your job is to call me and sell me shit, I have no way of telling the difference between the scammers and the people who deem themselves legitimate.

we still should acknowledge that there are telemarketers who do have humanity to them and aren't out to just ruin your life

And it's not my job to figure out which is which, all telemarketers get the same response ... fuck off.

Get a real fucking job, and stop calling me peddling your shit. But don't expect a polite response, you called me unsolicited, you get the response you deserve.

Sorry, no way I can muster any sympathy for telemarketers. Not now, not ever.

Re:Oversimplification of telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. It's the 99% of them that give the 1% a bad rap.

Re:Oversimplification of telemarketers

[MikeDataLink]

we still should acknowledge that there are telemarketers who do have humanity

False. Anyone who signs up to do this job accepts the shit storm they will receive. You don't get to say "I'm just doing my job." Find a different job.

Re:Oversimplification of telemarketers

[Shotgun]

My wife fussed at me a few nights ago, because I was impolite to an ADT salesman that randomly showed up at my door. I'll tell you the same thing I told her:

-The salesman lied to me. She said she wasn't there to try to sell something. WTF ever. Get off my property.
-The salesman attempted to manipulate to me. "Didn't they tell you at the closing that I would be coming?", she asked. A) The closing was months ago. B) No one ever told me that, and "they" is vague enough that I can't contradict you. C) If "they" HAD told me you were coming, I would have asked them to tell you to stay at home. D) Them "telling" me that you were coming is not a requirement that I give you the time of day. WTF ever. Get off my property.
-The salesman attempted to manipulate me by assuming a posture of familiarity that was unearned. I didn't know her from Adam, and the "we're friends" attitude is an attempt to break down my barrier of suspicion. WTF ever. Get off my property.
-If I wanted her product, I would have went looking for it. WTF ever. Get off my property.
-When I saw her ADT folder as she was walking up to the door and said, "No, thank you.", she persisted. Salesmen are taught not to take No for an answer, but instead to push and manipulate. I have learned to say, "I'm not going to argue with you. Fuck you, and get off my property." followed by "I'm calling the police." I consider that relationship to be symmetrical.

People who come to me randomly, seeking to push something on me have no right to anything other than a blunt, "Go away." Telemarketers fit squarely within this category.

Telemarketers are my prey

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

They call me, and I ruin their day. I keep 'em on the line for as long as I can, asking them kooky shit, having to put the phone down "so I can go get my card" over and over, asking them what they're wearing (works for both men and women!), asking them detailed questions about their sex life, etc etc.

I'm usually "Bob", but "Bill" is who they really need to talk to, so hold on a minute while I get him. Oh, it turns out that he got "Will" instead of "Bill", so hold on again while I get him. Whaddya know, "Bill" says they need to talk to "Bob" again or maybe "Frank", so let me transfer you...and so on and so on. Sometimes I give them part of a credit card number and then we get "disconnected". So close, but no cigar. Very sad.

Re:Telemarketers are my prey

[jwhyche]

That is pure evil. I'm going to file the serial number off that for my next round of calls. You know, instead of just tossing the phone in a suitcase and pounding out a few rounds of "Another One Rides the Bus" on it.

But I really want an extended warranty

[Bob the Super Hamste]

I keep getting the extended vehicle warranty ones or the "free trip from Marriott" ones. If I am at work I answer them and string them along or inform them of the illegality of their actions. For the car warranty ones I keep trying to get an extended warranty for a 1916 Stanly steam car roadster or 2016 Koenigsegg Regera. When fucking with them with the Stanly for year, I respond 16, they ask for make and model I respond with Stanly and roadster and it usually takes them a few minutes to figure out that I don't mean 2016 and then they get all pissed off but I keep demanding a warranty for one. With a Koenigsegg they usually can't figure out what I am saying and ask me to repeat it. For the free trip ones I politely inform them that interstate wire fraud is a felony and that I suggest that they report their employer to the FBI before they are also named as a co-conspirator.

Re:But I really want an extended warranty

[jwhyche]

I got the extended warranty calls. I usually string them along for a few minutes then when they try to close the deal. "What? I have to have a car for this great deal?"

I had one guy completely lose his shit one time....

Re:Oversimplification of telemarketers

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife fussed at me a few nights ago, because I was impolite to an ADT salesman that randomly showed up at my door.

Several years ago, both the wife and I were working from home, and I was in the basement where my office was.

Three guys showed up claiming to be from "the energy company" (sufficiently vague and non-specific as to imply they were on 'official' business) ... they talked their way into the house, and my wife took them downstairs to show them the furnace, because they were telling us we 'had' to replace the vent pipes due to changes in the building code. Ignoring the fact that any such change grandfathers in existing stuff, and hiding the fact they were in no way associated with my actual energy company.

My bullshit meter went off, and I started asking pointed questions. They tried their little song and dance until I finally said "get the fuck off my property before I call the police". At one point their 'evidence' that I 'had' to do this was a photocopy of an article which they were trying to pass off as some form of law, but in reality said nothing of substance.

My wife thought I'd overreacted, but I quickly found her news articles talking about this exact scam. Literally sign people up to replace their furnace for no legitimate reason other than to take your money and lock you into a support contract you don't need.

She now understands that all door to door sales people are lying sacks of shit who mis-represent themselves and try to make it sound like their official business is almost a legal requirement -- and even if they're not, we have to treat them as such.

I don't answer the phone if I don't know the number, and I don't ever let a door to door salesman get a word in beyond hello ... I just go straight to "oh, look, someone with a clipboard, please fuck off an go away".

I had one especially persistent guy who kept trying to do the "but you have to" schtick, and eventually I said "look, we both know you're lying, so if you don't leave I'm going to hurt you and then call the police because you're here under false pretences and representing yourself as something you are not". He left pretty quickly.

People who come to me randomly, seeking to push something on me have no right to anything other than a blunt, "Go away." Telemarketers fit squarely within this category.

Pretty much this, if I wanted your service I'd track it down myself ... but since I didn't, and didn't invite you to make your sales pitch to me, I'm not fucking listening to it.

Your pathetic job going door to door or phoning me trying to scam me out of money doesn't carry a duty for me to give a shit.

Most interesting part of TFA

[Solandri]

According to Sahin and her colleaguesâ(TM) research, automated telemarketing calls cost about four cents a minute, but using human operators can cost up to a dollar a minute. Even when this human labor is moved overseas to call centers in the Philippines or India, telemarketers still pay about 20 cents per minute to call.

4 cents/min = $2.40/hr
20 cents/min = $12/hr
$1/min = $60/hr = $120k/yr equivalent @ 40 hrs/week, 50 weeks/yr
And that's just what the telemarketing company pays the dweeb they hired to call you.

No wonder there are so many telemarketing calls. You can make (steal) a huge amount of money doing it.

Where is mobile Lenny

[Strepto]

I love Lenny to bits... someone needs to make an andoid/ios lenny app, which auto-records of course. I would happily pay for such a work of art.

So, long story long...

[davesays]

I miss Don. He moved into the neighborhood when I was about 10 (~1977). I wanted to play saxophone but the school district only taught clarinet for elementary schoolers. Don had his 1927 rosewood Conn clarinet re-padded so I could learn on "something of quality." But when anyone came to the door; telemarketers, Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, he would always slide the screen door open real slow. And regardless of gender he would tell them "you got nice legs, want to come in?" Over 3 years he pretty much cleaned up the whole block. I miss Don.