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Elon Musk's Boring Company Cancels Los Angeles Tunnel Following Lawsuit (gizmodo.com)
Elon Musk's Boring Company has settled a lawsuit preventing the company from building a tunnel beneath the 405 freeway in Los Angeles. "[T]he cancellation of the Westside tunnel project is a major blow to Musk's grand plan in the City of Angels," reports Gizmodo. From the report: The Los Angeles Times reports that the project's demise began shortly after the Boring Company obtained a preliminary exemption to skip California's environmental review process and start digging. The city's authorities have been friendly to Musk's plans, but a group of residents in the Westside area filed an environmental suit in May alleging that the tunnel violates state law. The crux of the group's argument was that the Westside tunnel is part of a larger project that the company outlined with a map late last year. According to the suit, California law forbids the approval of individual facets of a larger project, stating that a full environmental review can't "be evaded by chopping large projects into smaller pieces that taken individually appear to have no significant environmental impacts."
The Westside group did not get a ruling on its lawsuit; instead, it seems the two parties settled. The Boring Company did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Gizmodo, but it sent a statement to NBC News that reads: "The parties (The Boring Company, Brentwood Residents Coalition, Sunset Coalition, and Wendy-Sue Rosen) have amicably settled the matter of Brentwood Residents Coalition et al. v. City of Los Angeles (TBC -- The Boring Company). The Boring Company is no longer seeking the development of the Sepulveda test tunnel and instead seeks to construct an operational tunnel at Dodger Stadium."
The Westside group did not get a ruling on its lawsuit; instead, it seems the two parties settled. The Boring Company did not immediately respond to a request for comment from Gizmodo, but it sent a statement to NBC News that reads: "The parties (The Boring Company, Brentwood Residents Coalition, Sunset Coalition, and Wendy-Sue Rosen) have amicably settled the matter of Brentwood Residents Coalition et al. v. City of Los Angeles (TBC -- The Boring Company). The Boring Company is no longer seeking the development of the Sepulveda test tunnel and instead seeks to construct an operational tunnel at Dodger Stadium."
Are we worried about the disruption of the natural habitat of Lumbricus terrestris?
This is why we can't have nice things. If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole. If the whole has an impact, then if none of the other parts had any impact, then whatever part happens to be last must, by definition, have the same impact as the whole. This is basic logic.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
And if it truly doesn't have an impact, dig then. Like everyone else with a project, there are rules for a reason.
Not UNDER My Back Yard
Isn't the tunnel going to be built on state-owned property?
Oh no, Elon Musk is such a genius he can't do basic paperwork
That's... not true. Things have nonlinear effects. It's sorites paradox.
Or, put it another way, no given xray (or cigarette) is likely to give you cancer. But getting 100 xrays a day (or smoking 5 packs a day) is likely to cause you to get cancer. That's why it's illegal to split a project into smaller pieces.
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It's probably not an issue with wildlife, but an issue with digging under people's property. There have to be checks done to make sure that digging won't cause subsidence of buildings on the surface, or affect things like wells. There can also be issues with drainage and underground waterways that get diverted by the tunnel, which can have knock on effects.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
in the earth do private property rights extend to?
It's probably not an issue with wildlife, but an issue with digging under people's property.
*shakes fist*
Not Under My Back Yard!
Always disrupting the disruptor's disruptions.
He got the publicity he wanted. Job done
If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole. If the whole has an impact, then if none of the other parts had any impact, then whatever part happens to be last must, by definition, have the same impact as the whole. This is basic logic.
It's funny though, my cat fell off my table and it had no impact, but when I threw it out the third floor window it got hurt. Can you explain?
If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole.
Well, no. "No environmental impact" really just means "an acceptably low degree of environmental impact".
One cow grazing in a ten-acre field is sustainable, in terms of plant life; but that doesn't mean you can put ten thousand cows on the field without destroying the biosystem.
You can drill one hole in a rafter and it'll still support the roof just fine - that doesn't mean you can drill a thousand holes in that rafter.
#DeleteChrome
I can't imagine why Musk does California the favor of doing anything in California, or any other company for that matter.
He should just let LA slide into the Fallout like destiny it seeks, a complete wasteland of fire and traffic where you can only move via blimp or scooter.
A land where someone blocks an obviously useful thing like a tunnel to protect the spotted long-tufted earthworm or some other imaginary underground dweller, is a land not worth saving.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
*shakes a 3 inch stack of papers* - "Just do the EIR, if you're serious about your multi-billion mega-project!"
A container of elemental sodium and a container of water don't have much environmental impact separately, either.
CAPTCHA: capitals
More correctly, it's not that they have an impact that is the question. It's WHAT their impact is going to be and how the infrastructure company is going to mitigate that impact. You have to prove that you can build this thing safely BEFORE you start digging.
It's called ethics. I know this is a new concept for most programmers reading this on /., but it's a thing civil guys have been dealing with for decades. It's not a new problem for us.
See here for an example:
http://www.hudsontunnelproject...
The whole is not equal to the sum of its parts
You fail
Yet another cat that has failed to fly. Testing must continue!
No one said the individual parts have no environmental impact. They said "no significant environment impact".
If the bar for "significant" is "10" and your project is deemed to be "20", you're not allowed to complete it in 4 parts, each with "5", to avoid mitigation of the impact.
I'm surprise Rei isn't here blaming it on short cellars.
TY, IHAW.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole.
That's not necessarily true. It's the same reason tic-tacs can represent their product as "sugar free": "Tic Tac® mints do contain sugar as listed in the ingredient statement. However, since the amount of sugar per serving (1 mint) is less than 0.5 grams, FDA labeling requirements permit the Nutrition Facts to state that there are 0 grams of sugar per serving."
If a given project is only allowed to cause so much of an environmental impact, but the project as a whole will exceed that limit, you're not allowed to split it up into smaller projects in such a way that each sub-project will be under that limit.
Yes I can explain. You used an invalid analogy. When you threw it from the 3rd story, that wasn't a series of harmless actions, but a brand new single action that was harmful. But what if the cat went from the 3rd floor rail to the ledge, then went total the 2nd floor rail, them 2nd floor ledge, then first floor rail, and finally the ground? It seem the individual harmless pieces add up to something also harmless
The future of California us a bunch of brown fags puttering around in their little DooDoo rideshare safety-bubble hoopty cars, powered by their HIV diarrhea.
Around here there are properties that had to be written off because tunnels or more often mines dug under them caused problems. Water companies occasionally have to pay out because of burst underground pipes.
For this particular project I'd like to know what happens if there is an accident and a fire in the tunnel. Lithium batteries, gasoline, confined but ventilated space... Say the concrete melts, what then? What kind of fire suppression do they have?
I'm sure they have figured all this stuff out, but we have to check.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Once again, some idiot on slashdot can't even read the f---ing title. The unknown issue is a lawsuit. The same idiot also doesn't understand the difference between a goal and a promise.
Hmm. Your signature is awfully ironic. Sorry if this is just a joke of yours. In that case, whoosh to me!
"A land where someone blocks an obviously useful thing like a tunnel to protect the spotted long-tufted earthworm or some other imaginary underground dweller, is a land not worth saving." = You need to leave this planet, faggot.
You are worth killing.
and strong regulations help keep it that way. I don't know enough about what Musk is proposing to comment on it's relative safety, but I can imagine there's lots of good reasons to control where somebody digs a tunnel. The most obvious ones are having your house collapse under you or a gas explosion.
Now, you might counter that with "We've been digging like this for ages and that never happens". But here's the crux: We've been digging like that for ages under one of two conditions:
a. Relatively little city build up (especially compared to Los Angeles).
b. Strict gov't regulation of the sort Musk just ran into.
See, here's the crazy part. Contrary to what you're being told in mainstream media regulations exist for a reason. Yes, there are cases where zoning is abused (usually old people who don't want the extra traffic from new shops) but there's lots of cases where it's _not_ being abused. Most regulations were created because there was already a problem or disaster and the regulation is a response to that. American laws aren't very proactive.
Again though, watch something like Fox News, CNN or MSNBC and you won't get this. That's their pro-corporate bias showing through.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Back in reality, it was a test tunnel. They decided the Dodger Stadium one can serve the same purpose with more utility. It changes nothing about their plans.
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"Why can't I just be a pure Libertarian asshole and do whatever I want and set fires and rape squirrels and shit in wells, I'm a REPUBLICAN and THIS IS MURICA! California is oppressing me, rheeeeeeeeEEEeee!"
What if it falls off the table into a wood chipper
and strong regulations help keep it that way.
That is such bullshit. How do regulations prop up the vast tech industry there?
In a world where people constantly prattle on about privilege, what California has that has kept is so prosperous is pretty much the privilege of good weather + ocean. It has kept a lot of tech people there, and film people, and creative people of all kinds in California because they like living there.
Regulations have not helped at all. The state parks in other states for example are WAY BETTER managed than CA state parks. There are lots of other places that are nicer environmentally than California, so it's not like the absurd California environmental regulations have done anything except jack up housing prices since you cannot build a home anywhere useful now. Which has driven people to have 2-3 hour commutes, how does that help the environment exactly? Or perhaps you meant they prosper because they force cable makers to say every single thing you touch causes cancer.
If Apple/Google/Facebook alone left California tomorrow, how prosperous would California be? If a lot of other companies followed them, how long before the entire state collapsed under crushing debt (pension liability alone) with no-one able to pay for it?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you read the first sentence of the summary, it says the tunnel in question was planned to run under the 405 freeway. There are no houses on the freeway.
It was likely either a cynical attempt to slow the project down and get bribes for stepping aside, or some uneducated people imagining that their houses will be shaking constantly from nearby tunneling. The EIR wouldn't turn up anything, but it'd still require time and lawyers to write the nothing.
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But even still, the subsequent parts have nonlinearly increasing effects. The only way you get the whole not equal to the sum of its parts is if you don't evaluate them as you do them, but rather pre-evaluate each part in isolation, which is an entirely different thing.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
While I think this is a silly way to block this project, Los Angeles sits on vast oil reserves. It's the reason the city grew to be the largest on the West coast. The La Brea Tar Pits (located right next to downtown Los Angeles) are a part of this. When they first began digging the tunnel for the Los Angeles subway, they came back the next morning to find that tar had seeped through the tunnel walls dug the previous day. They had to put the project on hold for a year while they figured out how to deal with the tar seepage. A delay which ballooned the construction cost from $400 million to over $1 billion (making it the most expensive public transportation project in U.S. history at the time, until it was eclipsed by Boston's Big Dig).
So yeah, an environmental impact report is most appropriate in this case.
Yeah, but the point is that the second hole has to be evaluated after the first one is done, and the thousandth hole after the 999th one. At some point, the person evaluating it will say, "You know what, we really can't safely add the nth hole."
Even if you divide it into parts, as long as you evaluate the parts as you do them, either you'll reach a tipping point where the environmental impact becomes meaningful enough to trigger a review or you won't. If don't, then the whole project shouldn't have triggered a review, and if you do, then dividing it up had no effect.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tQvv8YFCGsY/maxresdefault.jpg
Maybe a proper assessment might be a good idea...
Your city sucks. People who do cool things don't like it. Maybe your city should start acting more like California to attract people who do cool things, as opposed to whining about how California doesn't deserve them.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
"Why should I follow the rules? I'm SuperMusk Kendall. My GUT knows." - Your entire whiny rant distilled to the crux of your ongoing problematic pseudo-Libertarian intellectual failure.
Shouldn't you be staring at the sun or something? Screw the rules, who cares.
"If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole."
One hunter kills all the deer, and you have no herd next year, or ever.
One hunter kills one deer, and you have no lasting impact. the herd will continue just fine.
Gather up enough hunters, and let them each kill one deer, instead of having no lasting effect by summing up all those 'no effects' you end up with the catastrophic effect where you have no herd next year (or ever).
"This is basic logic."
Even in basic logic this is a phenomena, just look at numerical stability analysis. Where catastrophic errors can accumulate in otherwise innocuous operations if you aren't careful. If you are just dividing a couple numbers the instability isn't relevant, but if you are doing millions of divisions in a connected system you might want to take a closer look to make sure you are not accumulating error effects that will come to dominate the results.
Thats exactly why the law is in place - how stupid would it be to do 2/3 (or pick any signicitant amount) of a project and then STOP and not be allowed to complete it? If the project is paid for by the government it would be a complete waste of money, and if it's private like this one, and the company sues the state, that will happen? Having a law that says you need to start with the end in mind is a good idea.
Fuck CA, fuck "environmentalists" and fuck tunnels.
All of the above deserve each other and I don't have to suffer any of it. Enjoy suing each other until you're living in next Venezuela. I will point and laugh.
The subway in L.A. was held up for decades because the rich Beverly Hills residents didn't want to be disturbed by the building of it. So the intelligent route couldn't be used, the one the old L.A. Red Line had, so the L.A. subway skirts Beverly Hills. Now Elton want to build his tunnel and the bozos in the rich areas of the Westside get it stopped. Plutarchy in action just like the whole Trump administration is all about.
Except that this tunnel had a useful purpose even if none of the rest of the work ever got done; its purpose was to prove that the concept could work.
I mean, say you're building a hotel. It makes no sense to say, "Your design has extra doors intended to let you later add two additional wings, so we can't let you build the first wing without an environmental review that includes the second and third wing that you might or might not ever even build, or might completely change between now and when you build them." That would be borderline absurd.
It may or may not make sense to take the risk of a future expansion getting blocked by an environmental review. But that decision should be in the hands of the entity paying for the work. It isn't the government's responsibility to keep businesses from wasting money.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Oh no, Elon Musk is such a genius he can't do basic paperwork
Musk's mistake was attempting any major project in Californiastan, full stop. I could have told him that this sort of thing would happen.
There are reasons why people and businesses are fleeing the State in droves. This is but one of countless others.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
"California received only 78 cents for every dollar it paid in federal taxes."
"There’s certainly some truth to that claim" that California is a donor state, said Steve Boilard, executive director of the Center for California Studies at Sacramento State University. He formerly worked at the California Legislative Analyst’s Office.
"You look at other states and they are getting quite a bit more of a return. They are getting $1.10 or $1.20 per dollar," Boilard added. "We really don’t send out that much more than we bring back. But we get back a lot less than most states."
Mississippi had the highest ratio, receiving $2.57 in federal spending per dollar of taxes paid. New Jersey had the lowest, receiving just $0.77 per dollar.
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2017/feb/14/does-california-give-more-it-gets-dc/
https://taxfoundation.org/press-release/federal-taxing-and-spending-benefit-some-states-leave-others-paying-bill-1/
https://calbudgetcenter.org/blog/california-federal-dollars-two-way-street/
Also, we should consider the environmental impact of NOT building the tunnels, and everyone continuing to commute with SUVs on the freeway.
NIMBYism is destroying America.
Here is an outrageous statement: The real purpose of these laws is to force people who want to get things done to make political donations. Whether it actually achieves any reasonable goal is beside the point.
In this it is no different from a corrupt country where you are expected to pay 10% of the cost of a new building to the building approver, or an immediate fee to the officer who pulled you over, or a few hundred to the DMV person so you don't need to mysteriously wait 5 years for a license.
I reiterate: "valid" regulations, even if granted as good, end up being misused this way.
Working as designed -- getting in the way of people who get things done. It has taken longer to clear regulatory hurdles to dredge a bay 5 feet deeper to handle superpanamax ships than it took to dig the original Panama canal.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
we should consider the environmental impact of NOT building the tunnels
Said more efficiently (fewer words) than I'm generally capable of.
Respect. :)
"environment" is so subjective. One mans hole is another mans dream!
Or you know, this is LA. What happens to the tunnel in the case of an earthquake? Is it hardened against causing collapse? Would it exacerbate earthquake damage? Would we even know?
Gorgeous strawman you've erected there, and you tore it down beautifully.
Where did the post you responded to say anything about CA failing? It said that people and businesses are fleeing the State in droves which is absolutely true and factual.
Perhaps the fumes from all the human shit on the streets has affected your reading comprehension.
If you read the first sentence of the summary, it says the tunnel in question was planned to run under the 405 freeway. There are no houses on the freeway.
But freeway subsidence or collapse can be just as bad. The collapse of the Nimitz Freeway in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake was that disaster's single largest death toll; 73% of the earthquake deaths occurred on the freeway rather than in collapsing/damaged homes.
I'm surprise you not English learn now yet, but have moist for Rei? Ew
As opposed to commuting to the Hyperloop station with SUVs on the freeway, then getting in the Hyperloop which, despite common misconceptions, still requires dirty power to run, then get out of the Hyperloop and renting a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/etc.?
The Hyperloop will never happen. It's bullshit.
All the good schools are on the East Coast. Just stay here and work on something important instead of going over there and wasting your life being a javascript monkey for an adware company.
Yeah...since I've lived here we went from worlds 10th to 6th largest economy and my income has gone from $110,000 a year to $300,000.
I am crying about California failing. Really.
Uh, CA went from Nth to 5th and are now sliding down to 7th and below.
That would be absurd, because that's not how hotels get built. You plan the entire thing out. And yes, you would have to get the whole plans signed off on before you start building.
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Nothing will happen to the Hyperloop in an earthquake because the Hyperloop isn't ever going to be built.
Please note all those figures are to the general fund and nothing else. All that coastguard area, roads, universities, military bases, border security, federal policing, taxbreaks and incentives which disproportionately support Californians all do not count to that 78/100 figure.
All taxes out to all federal dollars in, California is a drain.
NIMBY doesn't know state boundaries. This is a wealthy neighborhood concerned about elevated traffic due to the tunnel. This happens everywhere in the US anytime you attempt any construction project near wealthy people.
You'll get this worse in other states east of California where property owners also own the mineral rights. Somewhere like Texas you'd get every single property owner anywhere close to project suing to be paid claiming an impact to their mineral rights. California like many of the states west of Colorado have state laws that separate out mineral and surface rights giving the property owner no challenge to tunnel type projects via mineral rights. Instead these wealthy property owners are using a state environmental law to claim no analysis of impacts like traffic to attack the project.
Honestly the property owners are right, if Musk does want to build this massive private tunnel network he needs to spend a little money and do a real environmental analysis on what the impacts will be. Such a system would likely dramatically change traffic patterns and could cause aquifers to be disrupted along with a bunch of other things that should be analyzed before building it.
Environmental documents aren't a bad thing, they are simply a process that requires planning and a look at the effects the project will have before you build it. This is a good thing, these documents and the process they entail can often make projects run smoother and win public support and once the document is approved many of the avenues for a lawsuit get closed off, which is one of the purposes of the document.
No the real issue is retard musk doesn’t know what he’s doing. His tunnels so far cost more and are dug slower than competent tunneling firms.
Subsidence is probably a non-issue in this case, he's deep enough it's not going to have an effect at surface level unless the entire tunnel collapses and even then it'd probably bridge a soil arch before it reached the surface.
There are real issues with aquifer disruptions, traffic pattern changes and a bunch of other stuff that should be looked at. Environment documents are required because of stuff like this but the process is also setup to help build public support and in the end environmental documents have the effect of closing off a lot of lawsuits by taking away standing from potential plaintiffs who just want to block the project.
Make note it is not the government driving this sort of stuff, it is existing businesses and their stranglehold on government and endless astroturfing in Hollywood land, it is their very nature. Any threat to existing business will be shut down. The boring company, leads straight to very effective public transport (to build say a turbolift system under a city and out through the burbs, you can have a station on your land, only for you to use of course, fully automated carriers in tunnels no windows and video display instead and your own lift, needs lots and lots of tunnels, under every road) and will be attacked by civil works companies (bridges and highways), automotive dealerships, the car industry, the fossil fuellers (and just because Tesla and any attack on Tesla, well, it is all too fucking late after the General Motors announcement about it's shift to electric vehicles for the consumer market, wow, did that punch a hole in fossil fuel prices, regardless of the fossil fuellers paying corporate main stream media to stay mainly silent).
Musk was totally correct, tunnelling under cities will be a big thing and way more likely than flying cars, where any bingle up there is likely to lead to death down on the ground, as flying cars would crash into people's houses, in quite large numbers. Tunnels and turbolifts are the only way to substantially, realistically increase public transport options and flows. So if you can afford an entry in you home, you can catch a life from home, right to the basement of your office and your life, goes home until needed, or goes to a parking bay, somewhere not far. For the public catch one at most road intersections, punch in destination and it for example will take you right to the basement of your preferred quality supermarket. Get drunk catch a life home, throw up, the public lift goes to home base to get cleaned and you pay the bill or the lift routes to a police station, if you are worried walk ;D.
A shit bucket ton of tunnelling does need to be done and it will happen.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Those reasons are figments of your imagination, since there's been a monotonic increase in both population and, excepting nationwide recessions, GDP.
Where's the flight, pray tell, you disingenuous hack.
Still 5th. Not taking your fact-free word for it either.
I believe this is a bunch of smoke to hide the fact, Elon's vision of some new tunnel transportation is nothing new at all. It's a fricking subway, dork.
You no complain English him bad! Yourself learn English proper first!
What if it doesn't fall but you put the table in the wood chipper?
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
Yes but you could make two tunnel entrances which have no impact because neither of them goes anywhere.
It's only when you build the middle bit between them...
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
Then you dive in head first to get it.
IMHO, anybody/everybody, who is living in Los Angeles & think the traffic is quite literally torture to deal with (almost) everyday,
please send your thank you message to whoever these people are (!!!):
"a group of residents in the Westside area"
You linked to the complete DEIS document, which is a 158 MB zip file.
I'm not ashamed to say: too long, didn't read.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Build a nice tunnel under the border, si? Lots of money for el gringo! You like to party? We got the good shit, straight from colombia. we got some putas, better than grimes, sucky sucky 5 dollar, si gringo?
I'm going to sidestep the low-effort jokes about "how can a tunnel affect the environment" to point out that they do, in fact, affect the environment.
The tailings, or spoil, that is removed from the tunnel needs proper disposal. This material can be anything from rock to mud to coal and even soil contaminated with chemicals. Some of the rock releases acid when exposed to water, like the pyrite exposed by I-99 construction in PA. The Gotthard Base Tunnel in Switzerland had to have expensive temporary work just to prevent spoil from destroying the local environment.
All tunnels require drainage. For example, the Washington DC Metrorail system pumps out millions of gallons of water every day, most of which requires treatment before being released into the environment. Speaking of Metrorail, tailings were illegally dumped into local waterways that damaged them permanently.
While the air in the Boring Co tunnels aren't intended to be breathable by passengers, serious consideration must be made for combustible gases and it must be documented.
Finally, the affect on the overburden of the tunnel must be considered when digging. Disturbing it can release methane gas, cause contamination of groundwater by sediment, cause water migration, and cause subsidence on the surface.
So, laugh all you want about tunnels and the environment, but tunnels are NOT invisible.
Kriston
You remind me of a developer I talked to who wanted to blast a harbor in one of the Hawaiian Islands and couldn't figure out why the locals were opposing him. Exactly that same attitude: why can't I have my harbor? Oh yeah, the island will get trashed, so what.
So if I want to build a 100 mile road thru a nature preserve, and I apply for 528000 waivers to build one foot sections of road, they should all be approved, because each one foot section can't possibly have an impact, right?
California is packed and far and away the most successful state in the union by any measure except percentage of Republicans elected. I do know old Californians who skew very libertarian and are basically bummed they can't shoot at the multitudes of Hispanics they encounter but I usually joke that gun rights shoot both ways and they get that. LA gets more Hispanic every yearly visit. And this very white registered Independent business traveler says "Viva La Raza!" ... for the chicks alone (wait is that phrase un-woke?)
An individual 12" diameter vertical log in a 100' wide river has no impact; a string of 100 of them, side by side, across the river. That will have a major impact.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
It is entirely under a public road. The only concern is people in Brentwood (ironically where Musk lives when he isn't sleeping on a factory floor somewhere) are concerned that dump truck might be going up and down streets somewhere.
Musk was willing to cancel because he has another idea for a proof-of-concept tunnel (Dodgers), and the Sepulveda tunnel likely only made sense if he could get it moving quickly. He needs a second tunnel to dig to try out his next generation TBM. He might just have to experiment with Chicago instead.
Personally, I am disappointed despite it being a half-baked route map. Anything that can get people off the 405 is a win in LA.
According to the suit, California law forbids the approval of individual facets of a larger project...
If this is how the law actually reads, that is California's way of assuring BANANA (Build absolutely nothing, anywhere, near anyone). Segmenting a potential big project into individually testable smaller sections is a perfectly natural way of trying out something new. Small wonder that it can't even install a TGV that can be ordered right out of the Alstom catalog.
Come to Arizona, where experimentation is encouraged, and bore a tunnel here. The automated car companies are testing on the streets above you.
I don't blame you.
The point is that a tunnel has a lot of potential environmental impacts that have to be studied and mitigated.
The Hyperloop will never happen. It's bullshit.
The way to test this assertion is by actually trying to get one working.
Damaging aquifers? Contaminating water tables? Subsidence? Sinkholes? Triggering earthquakes? ...Yeah, no need to check for any of that, right?
Ah, yes, the ol' outside the environment argument...
RTFA. It is residents and environmentalists. You are just making a pathetic twist it to fit your vision of who is the boogeyman, instead of reality.
Ca is doing big things alrighty. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the-top-four-reasons-california-is-unsustainable/amp/
The underground is not a limitless, renewable or inconsequential resource. Just because someone has an out-of-box proposal doesn't mean it's wise to approve it without thoughtful consideration.
If you're so damn prosperous then why the hell do you have thousands of people who just got burned out of their homes begging for Federal Aid? Why is CA still taking billions in Federal Assistance annually?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"The facility was expanded with hotel tower additions in 1972, 1975, 1980, 1986, and 1996."
It's possible the 72 and 75 expansions were in the original plans, but you can almost guarantee the 80, 86, and 96 additions weren't
There's nothing "NIMBY" about making them do the EIR like everyone else you dumb apologist cunt.
you're putting words in my mouth. Please stop.
Regulations can have a variety of purposes. For example, there are regulations about using your house as a hotel. This can seem like a give away to the hotel industry at first glance. Until you find out that investors used to buy up properties and use them as short term rentals in popular areas, preventing regular folk from buying houses in cities where they worked and resulting in soul crushingly long commutes and a general decline in quality of life all around.
Regulations create an environment where everybody can succeed. Now, it just so happens this tends to maximize over all GDP. What it does _not_ do it maximize profit. That's because making the most money and making a good place for people to live and work aren't compatible. But a good place for people to live and work generates more overall wealth.
That's the trouble with the real world, it's more than a bit counter intuitive. If you study any scientific field you figure this out pretty quick. I wish this country had more education. It would really help.
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> Or, put it another way, no given xray (or cigarette) is likely to give you cancer. But getting 100 xrays a day (or smoking 5 packs a day) is likely to cause you to get cancer. That's why it's illegal to split a project into smaller pieces.
At the same time it's kinda ridiculous here. Yes, you may have grand plans for what you'd eventually like to do-- tunnels everywhere. But you should still be able to build logical, standalone pieces and not somehow try to get through EIR/permitting for everything you've ever contemplated.
How about just digging under California until it falls into the ocean... it's the only way to be sure.
But individually they dont.
Their whole gated community as a whole is a no go zone, and too nice and perfect, makes rest of CA look like shit.
Tear it down.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
its underground you piece of shit.
Did you do a EIR for the DOD when they used 2500 nukes in Navada ?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
what do you get? 15th?
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
By your definition, GPS would never be built and be banned
because it would disrupt so many businesses.
Smart phones affect traffic patterns too.
What time sport is on affects it too
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
https://tunnelbuilder.com/Arch...
Singapore builds, you cant stop them.
CA could learn from them
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I think it's more about a possible infestation of streetgangus criminalis being unintentionally transferred into their neighborhood.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
If they are going to build a big long squiggly tunnel underneath LA, then maybe it makes sense to make sure it will have more than one purpose - capacity for power, fibre-optics and other services.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
I think they are concerned about the environmental impact of having a hyperloop station in their neighbourhood where certain undesirables could appear out of nowhere, mug whoever is around in the area and disappear again.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Yeah, I still don't get the whole, "super fast underground transportation in Los Angeles." California, ya know, earthquake's homeland in America? What the fuck could possibly go wrong in a vacuum sealed tube under ground in an earthquake zone?
An EIS is generally wider than the natural environment impacts. It also covers social, & economic impacts.
eg. this is the EIS objectives for a major tunnel near me.
The objectives of the EIS are:
! to identify potential environmental, social and economic impacts and to ensure that adverse impacts are avoided or mitigated where possible; and
! to identify potential community benefits, including environmental, social and economic benefits.
Where unavoidable, the likely impacts (direct, indirect and cumulative) must be examined fully and remedial measures proposed, so that the development of the Project, including the selection of the final project specification, is based on sound economic, social and environmental protection and management criteria.
Consistent with this objective, the EIS should be a stand-alone and comprehensive document containing sufficient information to make an informed decision on the potential impacts. The document should provide:
for interested bodies and persons, a basis for understanding the project, alternatives and preferred solutions, the existing environment that it would affect, both on and off the site, the impacts that may occur and the measures to be taken to mitigate all adverse impacts;
for groups or persons with rights or interests in land, identification of the impacts of the proposed Project on that land including access and measures to mitigate all adverse impacts; and
for the Cg, a framework against which to:
- consider the economic, social and environmental aspects of the project in view of legislative and policy provisions and decide whether the project can proceed or not;
- set conditions for approval, as appropriate, to ensure economic, social and environmentally sound development; and
- where required by legislation, recommend an environmental management and monitoring program.
It is the responsibility of the Proponent to identify and address, as fully as possible, the matters relevant to the Project in complying with the statutory requirements for EIS preparation.
The Hyperloop will never happen. It's bullshit.
The Hyperloop is bullshit, but it probably will happen.
OTOH, wouldn't it be better if everyone commuted with small, safe, electric cars? Ones that could be programmed to not hit each other (or anything else). This would allow lightweighting of the design for better efficiency.
Or we can waste tons of power shooting rich people through a subway system with a fancy name.
It was likely either a cynical attempt to slow the project down and get bribes for stepping aside, or some uneducated people
Uneducated, like the large company with lots of money who "forgot" to file the right paperwork? The law specifically says that companies aren't allowed to hide the impact by splitting it up into lots of tiny chunks.
Musk just tried to do EXACTLY that.
If there isn't impact then that would have come up in the full report.
Why didn't they file it? The law is entirely clear in this regard and not only that entirely sensible.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
You have a lot of false logical jumps there. like each project has zero impact, rather than being just below a threshold. Say for instance a species affected is permitted to be affected by upto 5% of the population before it is deemed unacceptable. 4 individual parts affecting the population by 2% each would each be within acceptable levels while the project as a whole would be massively over the level.
For extra exitement, go across the San Andreas fault! (Or any other smaller fault in the area, there are several of them.)
If you keep reading the summary you can see that their concern is not so much the bit under the 405, but the fact that if they get the go-ahead for that bit it will help their application for the rest of it to get pushed through hastily.
That law preventing companies from splitting large projects up into small sections is there for a reason.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You must work in the public sector
The future of California is legions of brown fags puttering around in their gay little DooDoo rideshare safety-bubble hoopty cars, powered by their HIV diarrhea.
While true logically, it is not true in the real world.
For example, a single dam may not considerably hinder the ability of certain fish fish to swim from the sea to a lake where they mate. They might still be able to take a detour. But multiple dam building projects could suddenly seriously hinder that ability, as every river leading to the lake now has a dam in it.
But they *are* separate projects! It's pure coincidence that if you look at them all together from a specific angle at the right time of day it (umm, I mean *they*) might, to the untrained eye, superficially resemble a single large one.
And you can't prove otherwise, ner ner ner!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You know the sort of thing that would happen. Let's say the tunnels get built but they only connect downtown to the wealthy suburbs. Extension lines get built to supermarkets, shopping malls, cineplexes, theatres, film studios and office blocks. These become underground ZIL lanes for celebrities, private, safe, no danger of being held up in traffic or freeway shootings. Perfect. Maybe used to transport props between studios, patients between hospitals, just about anything needing secure delivery.
What's going to happen? One political group or other will file a lawsuit to take the company to court in order to force them to provide service to the poor neighborhoods. Or maybe Democrat senators.will file a Proposition, as they see a way of getting subsidized public transport. In the end, it will come under state control and becomes another underfunded state service.
If you dig a tunnel, you have some excavated rocks to dump or transport somewhere. That may have some impact. New transportation links can affect traffic patterns in weird ways - even increasing motor traffic in some unrelated places.
And - a major point - making a hole in the ground can have major effects on ground water. It's possible Musk have some super-sure way to avoid that, but the normal way to assure this is with an environmental impact study.
Or you tunneling methods may end up not just depleting, but actually fouling ground water. Like the Hallandsåsen tunnel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
It's possible the boring tunnels won't have that impact, but that's for a study to find out.
Small projects do not have no impact, they have minimal impact. Multiple minimal impacts can be severe. For example, if you put one teaspoon salt into the water for your noodles, it has minor impact. However, the whole package of salt will make the noodles quite inedible.
You'll want to update wikipedia, because there it's not 5th.
Musk tried to avoid the normal way to start the project. Now in a democracy you do not need to accept authoritarian behavior. Musk must follow the rules like anyone else, he is not above the law. He still can build his thing after due process.
"its underground"
Class assignment: name all the things you can think of that we can do underground that will have a negative impact on humans or the environment.
Off the top of my head: the Fairmont and St Francis in SF, and the Monteleone and the Ritz-Carlton in New Orleans, all have had substantial and architecturally dissimilar sections added on. Most large hospitals are even more like this - ten or more segments would not be unusual.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I used to work at this hotel as a kid, it had a new wing added to it while i worked there, 4 other wings added over 100 years or so
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
the whole point of a tunnel is to reduce traffic. It's like a freeway, it lets you by pass the surface streets.
I think they're more worried about sink holes, damage to the ground water and pipes and maybe even a gas explosion or two. Musk was pretty obviously trying to break down his project into smaller projects to get around a proper impact study. That is more than a bit suspicious.
As for why these things only come up in wealthy neighborhoods, it's because poor people don't have time and money to fight it when a big company wants to do something shitty in their neighborhood. It's why about half of poor rural communities don't have drinkable water right now. A rich neighborhood has stay at home moms who can spend 8 hours at city council meetings and hire lawyers to file paper work they otherwise would have got wrong and missed deadlines for. It's one of the many, many advantages of being rich.
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that's what an environmental impact study _is_. The point of TFA is that Musk tried to break his project into small enough chunks to get out of doing exactly that.
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So shrink the federal government and cut federal taxes. I mean, why do you think Mississippi (or New Mexico) gets so much? It’s a poor state full of poor people, and a lot of them are on (partially) federally-supported welfare. Ditch welfare and that gets a lot smaller. Maryland and Virginia are big recipients, but that’s exactly what you expect when they are the bedroom communities of the federal workforce. DC is at $5.55 received per dollar collected, per your second link! Florida is just below parity, but given the vast number of retirees from NJ and NY who move there, they are basically spending their working lives in the high-opportunity areas and then moving somewhere with a mild climate and lower cost of living when they start drawing Social Security.
There’s no easy way to separate this. If you want to have generous welfare benefits in your wealthy state, then tie them to state taxes and terminate them if people move away. If you move a lot of the tax and welfare burden to the feds, you will get people responding to incentives.
But this is California! I'm sure they've discovered that underground tunnels cause cancer.
Incipiamus, fratres, servire Domino Deo, quia hucusque vix vel parum in nullo profecimus.
That was the âoePeople Moverâ project in Detroit - worked great.
Envirowackos stifle innovation.
These people used to be called Luddites.
Are we worried about the disruption of the natural habitat of Lumbricus terrestris?
Environmental impact is an umbrella term that includes the effects on people and water, if I recall.
This is why we can't have nice things. If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole. If the whole has an impact, then if none of the other parts had any impact, then whatever part happens to be last must, by definition, have the same impact as the whole. This is basic logic.
I think it is more like how cooking spray can count itself as "fat free" despite being fat(oil) and propellant, they pick a small enough serving that the fat content is below the reporting threshold (0.5g) for the FDA. Thus they can sell pure fat as fat free (0g of fat!). This law is there to prevent this sort of non-sense.
Bullshit. CA pays the federal government. It's states like Tennessee and Alabama and especially Florida that take money from the federal government that comes from CA.
Who do you think pays for hurricane cleanup? It's not Florida; it's CA and NY.
According to the suit, California law forbids the approval of individual facets of a larger project...
If this is how the law actually reads, that is California's way of assuring BANANA (Build absolutely nothing, anywhere, near anyone). Segmenting a potential big project into individually testable smaller sections is a perfectly natural way of trying out something new. Small wonder that it can't even install a TGV that can be ordered right out of the Alstom catalog.
Come to Arizona, where experimentation is encouraged, and bore a tunnel here. The automated car companies are testing on the streets above you.
And then those same automated car companies run you over... Thank you for clarifying the fact that Arizonans (?) are in fact lab rats that can be run over in the name of progress.
Enjoy your donkey girls and their ~90 average IQs.
Oh no, Elon Musk is such a genius he can't do basic paperwork
One of the things Musk impresses me the most with, is his ability to cut through red tape. I've never seen projects clear bureaucratic hurdles with such speed.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
> NIMBYism is destroying America.
NUMBYism
Not
Under
My
Back
Yard
=Smidge=
Musk's mistake was attempting any major project in Californiastan, full stop.
No, it was attempting the project in Bel Air specifically. That's where all of the wealthy attorneys live. It's also why other sections of the project haven't been stopped. They are in less expensive neighborhoods, where the residents can't afford the legal fight.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
"If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole. If the whole has an impact, then if none of the other parts had any impact, then whatever part happens to be last must, by definition, have the same impact as the whole. This is basic logic"
lets do a little 'thought' experiment with your 'basic logic' :
1. i place 10 kg on you 'talking out of your ass' dumbass, and i observe it clearly has no 'impact'
2. i conclude since none of the parts in 1. has impact, i can safely dump 100 parts on you and it will be all right.
Jeeeez, how fucking dumb can you be? Go sell your 'mba grade bs' somewhere else
Because the federal government takes our citizens' money and hands it out to shit heel red states.
And Illinois! We barely get back 50 cents for each dollar we send the feds. And if my tax dollars are going to go to clean up another state, I'd rather it be California. Florida can fucking sink for all I care.
Its great, really if you can fit into the globalist, america hating culture in corporations in California and have all of the college degrees and so on. For blue collar workers, its crap, because of all of the rich liberals, the cost of living is driven sky high, plus liberals don't have to care as much about the very high tax rates since they can pay them, it hits the lower income levels the hardest. Plus if you are blue collar you have tons of illegal aliens flooding in trying to "get the american dream" which means "steal the american dream from you by stealing your job and driving blue collar wages into the basement". The Liberals don't care because they are in their cushy corporate jobs and can hire mexicans at $1 an hour etc to mow lawns and so forth. It absolutely eviscerates blue collar American workers which is why suicide and drug use is at record highs in the US adn the wealth gap keeps on exploding. So, if your blue collar, liberalism is not a utopia, its a shitty hell with illegal aliens flooding in to destroy your livilhood.
Exactly! Building a series of stacked, 1-ft walls has *exactly* the same impact as a single, 20-ft wall! And if a piece of a project causes a river to run 1-inch higher (a negligible amount), we can just repeat that 500 times and it'll still be negligible! It's simple math! /sarcasm
Musk's mistake was attempting any major project in Californiastan, full stop
Right. He should have gone somewhere that doesn't need regulation because the population density is so low. Then again, those states don't need tunnels either.
Does it go anywhere then?
Or it's a non-cynical attempt to stop a project that people fear will ultimately be expanded. Look, don't get me wrong, while I can't stand Musk and think this is ultimately a bullshit transportation project, I am nonetheless strongly anti-NIMBY. But the general concept that if you fear a project that ultimately comes to you, you take legal action at the beginning before that even happens, is a well practiced one. The NIMBYs on the Treasure Coast in Florida have been battling every aspect of the All Aboard Florida project for example, and the only reason they've not filed more lawsuits is lack of standing.
Ultimately I'd like a better environmental review process that can cut out NIMBYism (and maybe even make an equivalent of SLAPP for NIMBY lawsuits) but just because NIMBYism is evil doesn't mean they're not behind a lawsuit you don't understand.
Again, fuck Elon Musk. But yes, fuck NIMBYs too. They're even worse. Hopefully Musk will go bust and someone can buy his tunnels and use them for a London Underground Deep Level Tube Tunnel type thing (the trains should fit, they use a very limited loading gauge, but even if they don't you can probably make trains with similar dimensions that do.)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
So far, one person has died from automated car driving testing. While it's terrible that they died, when you put that in the context of the 101 people that died on average every day last year from car accidents, it's pretty clear that automated cars will be a net benefit for society.
We've become extremely adverse to risk and death in our society. Progress costs human lives, whether they end suddenly or as a result of years of toil at a job. Google employs 88,100 full time employees. Assuming a 40 hour work-week, and the 78.6 year life expectancy in the US, this means that they burn through 235 human lives each year. If you account for human work-hours, that number exceeds 500.
Even if you only care about sudden, unexpected deaths, we're doing well compared to before. Over 100 people died making the Hoover dam[1]. The pyramids claimed orders of magnitude more.
To make the world better, people will die. This is today's reality. It may occur suddenly, or gradually over time. Maybe with technological improvement in the future, this could change. But I will not support changing public policy to halt progress over the tragic loss of a single life.
Sources:
[1] https://io9.gizmodo.com/589318...
-=Lothsahn=-
Guess all existing commuter rail, subways, and surface rail should pack it in. They'll be happy to know that after 150 years of doing this, their mode of operation is all bullshit
So you're saying I can eat as many tictacs as. I want without ruining my diet? Awesome!
The Boring Company is going to face difficulties like this all over the world. Their technology is difficult and expensive and will face endless implementation challenges. They face getting governmental approvals and that is always difficult, with approval times measured in decades.
This isn't just a California thing so get used to it. Eventually The Boring Company will go out of business in the face of systemic delays on every single one of it's projects.
The comparison is with the German MagLev trains. They've spent decades trying to get these things installed and how many actual, real implementations are there? Two. There are two, worldwide. One is in Germany and the other is in China. This is after decades of trying, extensive government support, subsidies, everything.
Now, the counter-example is the European high speed rail system. That is real, it's a big system, huge geographic diversity, and it's enormously popular with riders. How did that get built? I don't know all the details but at least part of the reason is that it reused existing rail infrastructure. All the old rail easements, the old railway stations, it all got re-used. The old rail networks had lost much of their passenger traffic (not everywhere) and were neglected (again, not everywhere). Having a spiffy new application, even one that required rebuilding much of the system, was politically and economically attractive. And don't forget, those rail lines and terminals all ran right into the heart of most cities, with excellent siting and access.
I think there's another reason too. Although people no longer rode trains much, people remembered the trains. There was a reservoir of good feeling towards them and trains were a known quantity to the citizens. It didn't take much selling to get people to ride trains again, especially a "space age" fancy new train, with clean stations and on-time service.
The Boring Company is selling something different enough that it can't really leverage these sorts of assets.
It said that people and businesses are fleeing the State in droves which is absolutely true and factual.
Do you have a good source for that?
I'm not American, but when I find stats on this subject, I get the impression that California population growth rate is reducing, which is compatible with what you said but I don't think was what you meant.
Are we worried about the disruption of the natural habitat of Lumbricus terrestris?
This is why we can't have nice things. If the individual parts don't have any environmental impact, neither does the whole. If the whole has an impact, then if none of the other parts had any impact, then whatever part happens to be last must, by definition, have the same impact as the whole. This is basic logic.
But my understanding is that they got a waiver to avoid having to checking whether the individual part had an environmental impact by claiming that this small thing is too trivial a change to need to check. They should have to check, right?
California in a nutshell.
If they never get to build it he's right.
The Hyperloop will never happen. It's bullshit.
The way to test this assertion is by actually trying to get one working.
Many years and hundreds of millions of dollars later and we have a few dozen meters of test track/tube, an empty tin can with no propulsion, seats, etc. for the car/pod/coffin, and abandoned starts of tunnels.
I don't understand why driverless cars are so supported in CA but not underground tunnels.
Source: https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/...
You get this, why can't everyone? It's so simple. It's LITERALLY standard operating procedure, and TBC was skirting it on a sweet deal, and now it's back to SOP. BFD, amirite? But let's get our Libertarian feathers ruffled... it's CA!
After that, let's RTFM to GCHQ and watch them OMFGBBQ.
Guess all existing commuter rail, subways, and surface rail should pack it in. They'll be happy to know that after 150 years of doing this, their mode of operation is all bullshit
Guess you're a retard.
The Hyperloop is a train in a vacuum tube. It's worse than a plane and worse than a train in just about every way. The only good thing it promises is speed, but you'll never get the speeds they promise because you'd need a very long, very straight run with no stops. No such run is even planned.
There are three Holy Grail routes in US travel:
LA to Las Vegas
LA to San Francisco
LA to New York City
The "easiest" to do is LA to San Francisco. Every city along the way demands a stop at their city. If there's no stop, the city gets no benefit from the tunnels. If you want an express line, you have to shut down huge sections of the tunnels at a time, or build multiple, parallel tunnels for each major destination (in pairs). If there is a stop, then you spend time accelerating, traveling, decelerating, waiting for passengers to get off, waiting for passengers to get on / the next departure time, then accelerating again as you travel toward the next stop.
LA to Las Vegas will be worse with regards to getting approvals and crossing state lines, but may have to deal with fewer stops in between. LA to New York won't happen unless the feds eminent domain the whole damn thing.
And if such routes ever prove viable (i.e., popular enough to build and operate), they'll have to deal with all the security theater bullshit airports have. Meaning you have to get to the station well in advance to deal with that.
The whole thing is a farce.
Commuter rail is more energy efficient than cars, assuming reasonable density of passengers per train (typical of most commuter lines), on a marginal basis and TCO. I haven't seen any substantive figures for a hyperloop on energy efficiency.
Things live underground. There are water transport routes (rivers etc) that may be there too. It's reasonable to check.
Plus a tunnel is pretty useless if it doesn't have entrances and exits. At some point the vehicles at the surface level are going to go down and come back up from the tunnel. Where you put those points there can be what most people think of as environmental damage.
There's also underground rivers. In many cities smaller rivers were just covered and life went on.
And the review of that part of the project says, "There's too much of an impact", and the middle part doesn't get built.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Many years and hundreds of millions of dollars later and we have a few dozen meters of test track/tube, an empty tin can with no propulsion, seats, etc. for the car/pod/coffin, and abandoned starts of tunnels.
But the government isn't going to build this. Elon Musk will.
Why do you hate peoole who wish to protect the land they own? I don't get it.
Isn't that what early settlers had to do? Isn't that what America's all about, getting your piece and protecting it?
Why is it bad for a person to stand up to a business and say, no not on my watch, you want to do something then file the proper paperwork. How is that a bad thing? I don't get you fucking repubtards sometimes. I really don't.
No, Hyperloop will never happen.
CA public schools suck. They can't afford to live here with the default education they get here.
But good news, they're still way above average in Texas, and they make room for people who paid attention in school.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Bullshit back at ya.
That analysis ignores federal money paid directly to people that live in the states. CA has 25% of the US population on the federal tit.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
1 Step Forward and 3 Steps Backward...
So sayeth the Trump shill. Here's a fact for you: over 90% of forest areas in California are federally owned and federally responsible. Let's say you are correct that forest lands were poorly managed, congratulations, you've won in pointing out crippled, incompetent federal agency under Trump.
> Musk's mistake was attempting any major project in Californiastan
Wait, did you just compare the US' wealthiest, most progressive, most liberal state, to an Islamic republic which is the exact opposite of those things?
Wow, that's like, not just full retard, that's extreme retard.
You... need help.
You think you're harassing and embarrassing someone, when really, many more are just reminded as to why your own faction is increasingly impossible to tolerate.
I feel silly even explaining it, since if you haven't figured it out by now that acting like petulant morons helped get your arch nemesis elected, then you're far too stupid to ever understand.
Your opposition alone perhaps gives Kendall more credit than they deserve.
So sayeth the Trump shill. Here's a fact for you: over 90% of forest areas in California are federally owned and federally responsible. Let's say you are correct that forest lands were poorly managed, congratulations, you've won in pointing out crippled, incompetent federal agency under Trump.
True, if the fires are in land that is "federally owned and federally responsible", and not in land that California manages.
Your "argument" has exactly fuck-all to do with what the hell we're talking about but I see you've posted it several times throughout this thread. You need to stop being jealous and face the cold hard reality that you're beholden to people you despise and there's not a goddamned thing you can do about it. CRY MOAR SN0WFLAKE.
Yes, thank you, I did enjoy your mom last night.
So you're saying I can eat as many tictacs as. I want without ruining my diet? Awesome!
Yes. That's exactly what he's saying.
That's why I keep coming to /., for the insightful comments.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
So you're fine with TBC coming and not following your construction laws. Do they just need to know who to buy off? That is much simpler, I guess.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
yes, by stealing money from the public to further starve our high speed rail project so that he can come along later and buy it out from under us. then tada the "hyperloop" that "he built"
Nice change of goalposts. Your argument was "As opposed to commuting to the Hyperloop station with SUVs on the freeway, then getting in the Hyperloop which, despite common misconceptions, still requires dirty power to run, then get out of the Hyperloop and renting a car or calling an Uber/Lyft/etc.?" This is not an argument against Hyperloop, as its exactly the same model that millions of people follow every single day. People commute to a Long Island Railroad station with SUVs on the freeway, they get on the train which, despite common misconceptions, still requires dirty power to run, they get out at Penn station and call an Uber/Lyft/etc?. Ultimately it will come down to cost to build and operate 1 mile of high speed rail, vs 1 mile of Hyperloop. Jury is still out on that