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Google's CEO Thinks Android Users Know How Much Their Phones Are Tracking Them (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Google CEO Sundar Pichai thinks Android users have a good understanding of the volume of data Google collects on them, when they agree to use the Android mobile operating system. The exec, who is testifying today in front of the House Judiciary committee for a hearing entitled "Transparency & Accountability: Examining Google and its Data Collection, Use and Filtering Practices," claimed that users are in control of the information Google has on them. "For Google services, you have a choice of what information is collected, and we make it transparent," Pichai said in response to questioning from Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA).
Google's defense on the data collection front is similar to Facebook's -- that is, Pichai responded that Google provides tools that put users in control. But do they actually use them? "It's really important for us that average users are able to understand it," said Pichai, stating that users do understand the user agreement for Android OS. "We actually ... remind users to do a privacy checkup, and we make it very obvious every month. In fact, in the last 28 days, 160 million users went to their My Account settings, where they can clearly see what information we have -- we actually show it back to them. We give clear toggles, by category, where they can decide whether that information is collected, stored, or -- more importantly -- if they decide to stop using it, we work hard to make it possible for users to take their data with them," he said. When asked if Google could improve its user dashboard and tools to better teach people how to protect their privacy, including turning off data collection and location tracking, Pichai said "there's complexity," but it is "something I do think we can do better." He continued: "We want to simplify it, and make it easier for average users to navigate these settings. It's something we are working on."
Google's defense on the data collection front is similar to Facebook's -- that is, Pichai responded that Google provides tools that put users in control. But do they actually use them? "It's really important for us that average users are able to understand it," said Pichai, stating that users do understand the user agreement for Android OS. "We actually ... remind users to do a privacy checkup, and we make it very obvious every month. In fact, in the last 28 days, 160 million users went to their My Account settings, where they can clearly see what information we have -- we actually show it back to them. We give clear toggles, by category, where they can decide whether that information is collected, stored, or -- more importantly -- if they decide to stop using it, we work hard to make it possible for users to take their data with them," he said. When asked if Google could improve its user dashboard and tools to better teach people how to protect their privacy, including turning off data collection and location tracking, Pichai said "there's complexity," but it is "something I do think we can do better." He continued: "We want to simplify it, and make it easier for average users to navigate these settings. It's something we are working on."
If i allow them to track me, should they allow me to track one of them?
He thinks we're fine with not being able to say "no" in any other way than not owning an Android OS-using phone.
Most phone users are imbeciles, and few of any arenâ(TM)t.
... on the other hand, the Apple fanbois deny that the walled garden is to keep them in and that they're wearing their monitoring bracelet on their wrist.
It's more that they just don't care to until something happens, then blame anything and everyone else but themselves.
And rape victims know they are raped. What's your point?
Doesn't mean they are OK with it! Or that they have much of a choice!
(No, if it means you're a social outcast, you don't have a choice.)
This completely, and I think deliberately, distracts from the real discussion.
That Google is evil for doing the snooping and peeping, and even worse, for arrogantly even acting like it's alright.
When it should, if most people had a say, probably actually be a crime resulting in life in prison for him, just for offering it for sale... even if the terms and conditions (read: code, incomprehensible to humans) say they do it.
When will you stop raping my privacy!
I don't think the average user knows how much, but I also think the average user doesn't care enough to go find out. However, I don't believe that is any fault on Google's part. Without getting into whether Google should collect as much as it does, what it collects and where to find it is available as long as the user actually pays attention and/or cares to find it. They're not hiding it.
As an android developer, its astounding the amount of user data that is commonly scraped by developers from apps. Shocking even. You have no fucking idea.
So...he's full of shit. Duh.
I'm certain that he doesn't have a clue how much data is tracked, as I have no idea.
How did he know it was 160 million, I don't remember being told they would collect this information...!
Not only do I think this is disingenuous but he's also failing to point out that Google arbitrarily requires you to give them the whole kit and caboodle of personal data if you want to use certain features. Want to use the Play store? You have to enable location services that Google tracks. Want to use Google maps and actually store maps so you don't download them every time (whether you are on android or not)? You have to sign in and give over all your tracking data. And are there actual legitimate requirements for this? No - Google intentionally moved location services inside of the Play framework, it used to be completely separate and standalone. Do you need to be signed in to download maps to the local device? Of course not. But Google knows people want to use these features on their devices and the force you to give up everything to use them.
Any time I try to toggle off data collection in that "My Account" area, the settings miraculously revert as soon as I leave.
Meanwhile, I've never had that problem on iOS. Heck, I'm not sure what other services I've had that issue with (I'm sure FB would be included, except for my lack of interactions with them.) I've heard rumors about Win10, but again...
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Thou will be missed :(
Fuck, had such high hopes. Now you get to choose if you want to get raped by Google, EU or the US of A(or apple if you like cults).
Thank God climate change or Russia will wipe us out before we get to see the monstrosity the internet will become.
Regardless of what he believes, that's what he's going to tell the committee. It's not like he's going to tell them, "We believe the average user has no idea how much information we're squirrelling away. We're essentially committing fraud here."
People should have the right to request for their data to be purged from
1) the company itself
2) its subsidiaries
3) its partners (present and past)
It would seem that Larry and Sergey are using a moron as their front-end person.
They bought a fucking spyware phone by an adware company. Obviously not the smartest specimens in the lab.
It is right that Google users are in control of their privacy.
You can dig into the Android account settings, and disable most of the privacy intrusion collection that Google is doing. Just make sure to confirm each time in the link that is outside the box, you know, the one that isn't shown by default unless you scroll all the way down. Hitting "back" won't do it. Also make sure to check these settings every other day, in case they revert back or something new is added.
In case this was not done beforehand, you can delete some of the past actions google has been collecting, such as searches in google store and other apps, or sharing maps locations, etc. The ones that you know about anyway.
It's a very simple process to click on "Delete" on every single past event. It should just take 2 days for each month you have been using Android. Maybe 3 days, if you want to take breaks to eat or sleep.
Sundar you miserable geek. Get out of the f**king petri dish and talk to average users, not the techno-incestuous gang you hang out with, but actual people who don't write code or configure servers. Artists, garbage truck drivers, English teachers, soup kitchen workers. They think their phone is a cell phone. They think "I'll buy a cell phone, so then I own it and everything on it. And I'll even pay for some cellular service provider so that I can talk to my family and some friends. A cell phone is an appliance. It's a f**king toaster. Why is it sending my bagels to a dozen different companies I've never heard of?" Who in their right minds would ever consider that we're paying so much for the privilege of letting you siphon off our personal details to be sold to an endless stream of spam monkeys?
Ok. ramp down. off the soapbox. all better now.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
Filthy liar. Google knows full well that they are collecting truckloads of data that the vast majority of users know nothing about. Hell, I am pretty IT literate and I am still shocked at Google practices, SSIDs, GPS tracking without ANY wireless turned on, and who can guess what else. I was toying with replacing my phone with an Android, but gave that idea away a few months back after I started to notice reports of the depth of their tracking. Now I feel that I am forced to use Apple instead, even though I really don't like them much either.
Getting directions on Windows from google maps and sending that to android phone, the texted link no longer can be opened by google maps. Now google want, no forces user to update to newer maps app. But the current/old maps app works fine and I've seen no feature that justifies upgrading.
This may be last stray to abandoning google maps for an alternative.
Anyone have a solution that is reasonable?
I have no Google account. I don't use Gmail, or Wave, or Reader, or Google Videos, or the Android Market, or any of that stuff.
But I do use an Android phone. I've always been curious just what data they track from a device with no Google account.
I'm starting to wonder how dumb it is to have a smart phone. Seriously whats the point anymore? So that it makes it easier for govt to spy on us and companies to advertise to us.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
This is Google Speak for "We will say what is needed to avoid regulations, but carry on as we always have anyway" Google is an advert business , collecting and selling user data is their core activity. Everything else is there to support that.
Google CEO Sundar Pichai thinks Android users have a good understanding of the volume of data Google collects on them,
Android users are people, and the vast majority of people have jobs outside IT. Normal people don't even know the difference between 2G, 3G and 4G except that the higher numbers mean "faster". They also couldn't list the sensors that their phone contains, and barely understand what information the OS has available at all. They know that GPS has something to do with maps, but that's it. They are almost certainly not aware that their phone is constantly doing data transfers in the background nor do they have any idea what data is being exchanged.
This is just the other version of the usual "blame the user" bullshit. We blame the user for being stupid and making mistakes, then we turn around and blame the user for knowing everything so its not our fault, again. Can't have it both ways.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
You know they do. Not that you can prove anything but I guess believing is enough for you.
Apps shouldn't ever need access to my storage. Apps shouldn't need access to many things.
Some permissions are more important than others.
Also, we don't call these phones smart... You may also want to call them *spacey* phones... because they make people spacey (less smart perhaps, mostly distracted) and they are space-aged
If they really wanted people to understand the Android user "agreement", it would be short, concise and clear.
If they really wanted people to adjust their tracking and data collection, it would be (1) opt-in, (2) much more visible, and (3) devastating to Google's business.
I doubt that any settings you may be able to adjust have any effect on what they collect and analyze. It may adjust how some of it is presented to *you* though.
The main problem remains the various manufacturers, loading the device with crapware you can neither uninstall nor disable that is even worse in their privacy invasion than Google ever could be. If you want to create a privacy protection law, force manufacturers to clearly state in no uncertain terms what shit they latch onto the system that you can't remove without rooting the device and effectively throw anything resembling warranty into the toilet.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Them simply lying to the house judiciary committee without even thinking twice, or me knowing that they'll get away with it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I really like this article by Martin Abrams which tries to explain all the different data types and how strong public awareness is about each type.
Core types he recognises are:
- Provided
- Observed
- Derived
- Inferred
When most people think about 'their data', they don't think beyond the 'provided' type.
http://informationaccountabili...
Some people do know how much Android is tracking.. What they don't know is how much GOOGLE tracks them.
In fact, in the last 28 days, 160 million users went to their My Account settings
They track whenever I go to the settings page? I didn't know that!
I'm not sure if I'm better off, but I'd like to think that without the GApps package on my LineageOS phone that I'm somewhat insulated from a lot of this crap.
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
Sheikh Yaseen was very well known spiritual leader of Hamas on West bank. His schedule of going to the prayer was very well known for many years. Finally, Israelis decided to take him out. It was very easy for them.
My point is that Sheikh Yaseen did not give a damn about enemy knowing his position.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
They recently admitted that regardless of your "position history" settings, they will collect locational data and literally pin point your position and movement patterns. Funny how this guy sits there with a straight face and says that you can control what data they collect.
Sorry, but that's what it is.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
“But the plans were on display”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
Hahaha is this a joke? Or athe result of an echo chamber and complete ignorance?
I'd love to know why he thinks that.
Most people assume their private device works like any other thing they don't openly give to people. Why do so many people use password and security?
Look, Google is way out of touch. I don't know when it happened,but they went from geek friendly tech giant to ignorant bloated political toxin.
"We actually ... remind users to do a privacy checkup, and we make it very obvious every month. In fact, in the last 28 days, 160 million users went to their My Account settings,
Wait... how do they know we "went to [our] My Account settings" unless Google is spying on all their users? This attempt at self-exoneration sounds more like an admission of guilt to me.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Sundar you miserable geek. Get out of the f**king petri dish and talk to average users, not the techno-incestuous gang you hang out with, but actual people who don't write code or configure servers.
Why not just use the much more likely explanation that he is lying and he knows it. He's looking for plausible deniability. The guy is smart so I don't really buy the argument that he's THAT out of touch with reality. Simple fact is that Google is doing what is in Google's financial interest and tracking you benefits Google rather a lot. They have to pretend they care about the issue but just follow the money trail to see what they really care about.
Comparing the service that Google provides to rape is asinine.
Disagree. The issue is whether there is adequate informed consent. This requires a clear appreciation and understanding of the facts, consequences, and implications of the action. It is very much akin to rape or at least malpractice if informed consent is not obtained. It's not at all clear that people are in possession of all the facts nor are they presented in a clear and understandable manner. Expecting people to know or suspect there are nuanced negative consequences without considerably effort to inform them is ridiculous
Google gives you something in return. Believe it or not, people aren't forced to use Google and generally do so because they like the products.
A medical quack gives people something in return too. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to allow it. Google is knowingly taking advantage of people's lack of technological sophistication. It's not really a question that a huge percent of the public does not understand the full implications of their actions nor are they being provided adequately clear information and opportunities to remedy this situation.
Stop Google now, before it's too late. Arrest Sundar Pichai. Break up Alphabet.
The term is "data rape".
wifi with no explanation from google. Crap like that. They say we're in control, but we're not, they are.
If you don't limit tracking from the very beginning, Google gets a snapshot that likely covers most of your activities for years to come.
Along this vein, occasionally Google releases a cute little app that requires access to your location and/or camera. There's no intention of the company ever trying to take the app mainstream and support it long-term. What the app does, though, is attract enough users for Google to get a representative sampling of the whole population. From this sampling, the company can extrapolate.
There's no reason every app on a smartphone should have access to the Internet. Go ahead and disable Location Services for an app, if the app "phones home" over the Internet, the app developer can obtain your general location from your IP address. And they can potentially side-load malware, too, subverting Apple's review.
Raise your hand if you want your privacy violated? Yeah. Thought not. That's why it's not opt in. Similar to telemarketing.
Amongst other counter-measures, I put an Android stereo in my Porsche, specifically because the damn thing is always tracking. Good luck to the fool who tries to steal it.
Businesses have been tracking us since before the smart phone. They've just gotten better at it.
Basically, we swim in a sea of surveillance. Take or leave the smart phone, it doesn't matter. They track every Web page, every purchase. You're on camera everywhere you go.
So, people think, what's the point of fighting it? What good is fighting it going to do anyway?
Google's CEO Doesn't Give a Shit if Android Users Know How Much Their Phones Are Tracking Them
Just another day in Paradise