Slashdot Mirror
Turning Off Facebook Location Tracking Doesn't Stop It From Tracking Your Location (gizmodo.com)
Even if you explicitly tell Facebook to not track your location, it says it will still use your IP address to track your location. Kashmir Hill, reporting for Gizmodo: Aleksandra Korolova has turned off Facebook's access to her location in every way that she can. She has turned off location history in the Facebook app and told her iPhone that she "Never" wants the app to get her location. She doesn't "check-in" to places and doesn't list her current city on her profile.
Despite all this, she constantly sees location-based ads on Facebook. She sees ads targeted at "people who live near Santa Monica" (where she lives) and at "people who live or were recently near Los Angeles" (where she works as an assistant professor at the University of Southern California). When she traveled to Glacier National Park, she saw an ad for activities in Montana, and when she went on a work trip to Cambridge, Massachusetts, she saw an ad for a ceramics school there. Facebook was continuing to track Korolova's location for ads despite her signaling in all the ways that she could that she didn't want Facebook doing that.
[...] "There is no way for people to opt out of using location for ads entirely," said a Facebook spokesperson by email. "We use city and zip level location which we collect from IP addresses and other information such as check-ins and current city from your profile to ensure we are providing people with a good service -- from ensuring they see Facebook in the right language, to making sure that they are shown nearby events and ads for businesses that are local to them."
Despite all this, she constantly sees location-based ads on Facebook. She sees ads targeted at "people who live near Santa Monica" (where she lives) and at "people who live or were recently near Los Angeles" (where she works as an assistant professor at the University of Southern California). When she traveled to Glacier National Park, she saw an ad for activities in Montana, and when she went on a work trip to Cambridge, Massachusetts, she saw an ad for a ceramics school there. Facebook was continuing to track Korolova's location for ads despite her signaling in all the ways that she could that she didn't want Facebook doing that.
[...] "There is no way for people to opt out of using location for ads entirely," said a Facebook spokesperson by email. "We use city and zip level location which we collect from IP addresses and other information such as check-ins and current city from your profile to ensure we are providing people with a good service -- from ensuring they see Facebook in the right language, to making sure that they are shown nearby events and ads for businesses that are local to them."
There is no way for people to opt out of using location for ads entirely [unless you spoof your IP address via a mixer network such as Tor].
[quote]
"There is no way for people to opt out of using location for ads entirely," said a Facebook spokesperson by email.
[/quote]
There most certainly *IS* a way to opt out. UNINSTALL THE DAMN APP!
IF you are tracking my I-phone by it's IP, I spend a lot of time in downtown Dallas.. If you track my Facebook access from home, it's going to tell you I'm in the Carrolton Texas area. Both are about 25 miles from my ACTUAL location.
However, there are more ways to give up your physical location than accessing Facebook. Take a picture and share it with your mobile device? (They are usually GEO tagged by your device). Run some "GPS" application to get driving directions? Actually have it turned on and pinging a cell tower? (The carrier knows where you are with very good resolution.)
So why do I care what Facebook is tracking? I fully know my activities are being tracked by multiple services. IF you don't like that, don't access these services.. IF you don't already know about this, that's on you for accepting all the EULA's without understanding them.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I am disgusted by your half-measures and find them to be ideologically impure.
/s on this whole post because good god, look at what we have been reduced to
The obvious only response to "There is no way for people to opt out of using location for ads" is DON'T USE FACEBOOK.
The only useful purpose Facebook serves is a list for the great telephone sanitizer purge.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Apart from the obvious option of deleting your Facebook account, a good VPN should probably be able to obfuscate your IP address effectively enough to prevent this kind of tracking, surely?
One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
I'm ok with IP based tracking, my IP stays static anywhere in my local metro are, so all they know is what city I'm in (and often that's not even accurate for small towns).
If I really want to hide it, I can use a VPN.
What I don't like is the GPS or Wifi SSID tracking which is much more granular and harder to mask. I almost never give apps that permission. I once tried a free flashlight app that wanted location permission and ability to read my contacts, I've been very selective about what apps I install after that.
Apps that aren't installed have an even harder time tracking you.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Duh, they know your previous locations and use that as fallback. They also know your IP address. Your network provider always knows your location and might sell that data to advertisers as well. Your phone IS a location tracking device. It has to be in order to work properly.
If you do not want Facebook to track you, then GET OFF Facebook!
Facebook provides its 'services' to you for free. That means *YOU* are the product.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
One day, with a lot of luck, you will have a partner who can help explain to you the difference between trivia ( oh no, google thinks it knows where I am ) and a sadistic assault.
They take privacy, seriously.
> "ensuring they see Facebook in the right language"
That has nothing to do with location and everything to do with the user. Just because I might be in Frankfurt doesn't mean I want to see content in German.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
First they repealed Net Neutrality, and a year after that, this is happening. How many people have we lost this year to pre-existing brain cancer caused by cell phones, because evil ISPs have teamed up with Facebook to use IP tracking to block people from accessing their local Obamacare online exchanges? Not that it really matters. We're all doomed thanks to global warming. And when we go, nature will start over. With the bees, probably. Nature knows when to give up.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
You hardly need to download anything to be tracked. The phone does it on its own. You cannot turn off location tracking without turning off your phone and removing the battery.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
That's great (assuming you actually want to use facebook for some reason); but it does nothing to hide your location or ip address from them.
Apps that aren't installed have an even harder time tracking you.
Good luck finding a smartphone that doesn't have facebook pre-installed in a way that prevents uninstallation. You can of course choose to not use it (and even go so far as to never sign in to it) but finding one that doesn't have it is nearly impossible.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
You should always be using a VPN and if possible TOR, across all your platforms. VPN's have become so common place that even technology illiterate people know they should be running one. A website should be allowed to track what you let them, and if you give them your IP without any filtering, they should be collecting that and preforming analytics on it. In my case Facebook gets confused constantly as my VPN switches my location every 15 - 30 minutes, and it notices, usually kicking me out and asking me to approve the location change.
remember when geoip was like the fancy new shit just becoming mainstream in teh intarweb? and then a few months later your boss heard about it and all the sudden wanted it in all the things? 1995 was nuts.
Have you tried an iPhone; they are quite popular; and quite free of facebook OOB.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Try "Package Disabler Pro". It only works on Samsung devices, but it will disable bloatware packages, without needing root.
...if you are using Facebook
LOL.. I get what I expect... But I use Facebook sparingly and don't freely share many accurate details of my personal life, mainly because I understand the risks of doing this. But then again, I'm not some naive youngster who was raised with a need for a social network online as I know how to talk to people face to face.
Read the EULIA and Terms of Service people... Think seriously about what they are saying they CAN do with any information they scrape up from you. Then remember that once they have the data, you cannot get it back or guarantee it's erased, regardless of what they promise.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
See online: The Facebook Dilemma That's an excellent documentary, especially Part 2. The Facebook system is seriously flawed, Part 2 says. In several countries people have died because of Facebook posts by destructive people.
... and basically being ignored."
As is explained in the documentary, people are accepting social media as news. But social media has no editor, in many cases. So, often people, especially those with little education, are accepting fake news stories on social media as true.
Problem: Most Slashdot readers are more logical than the average person in the world. Slashdot readers are much more likely to have developed methods of avoiding fake or unreliable news. But, apparently Slashdot readers are unlikely to realize how often it is that other people are not logical.
Social media managers, especially the Facebook managers interviewed for that Frontline documentary, say they have no responsibility.
"News" without an editor is a social problem that existed far less before the Internet became available because it was too expensive to distribute fake news.
Facebook abuse: Look at the 2nd part of the documentary starting at 43:11. Zeynep Tufekci of UNC Chapel Hill (University of North Carolina), Associate Professor, UNC School of Information and Library Science; Adjunct Professor, Department of Sociology says this about deaths as a result of people accepting a Facebook post as news:
"years and years of people begging the company [Facebook]
She indicates that Facebook cannot be trusted.
... the worse Facebook looks.
The vendor accumulating GPS location datapoints in order to do something, that's "tracking" and should be able to be circumvented. If the vendor notices the IP you're at to provide more localized service and then immediately forgets where you are, I wouldn't call that "tracking" - not to mention that IP addresses are not particularly good location correlates.
I know it's fun to bash Facebook, but if this assistant professor is so paranoid, why is she on Facebook at all? This article is nothing but troll bait.
That is all.
Of course, the benign possibility is that the app has some kind of monitor process that phones home occasionally to check for updates. (home being defined as either the app store or the developers own systems) But making that background process also track your location and report that in any of several ways should be trivial for any app developer skilled enough to meet the inclusion criteria of the Android or Apple app stores.
For companies like Facebook and pretty much every free mobile game out there, their entire business model is providing you with a service only as an opportunity to gather every possible scrap of data on you. Just because your phone isn't passing along what it knows about your location doesn't mean that the background app can't determine where you are through a number of other methods. It just means the level of certainty drops a tiny bit.
For example, you go to your favourite caffeine dispensary where they also happen to have free Wi-Fi. You happen to have $shiny_app installed but don't allow it to know your location. But it can still get identifying data for radio sources through the Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and possibly the NFC reader (aka S Beam in Samsung phones, many other phones have something similar). The background process I described already gathers that info and then phones home with that radio finger print. The $shiny_app developer has a data base, purchased from a 3rd party, which lists millions of such fingerprints. Thanks to numerous other mobile users who haven't disabled location data on their devices, the database has a pretty clear idea of where each radio fingerprint is physically located.
It's important to note that deleting an offending app won't solve the problem. MOST of the apps you have installed will be doing this and there are only a handful of providers of that third party geolocation database. Thus the 3rd party database company has dozens, even hundreds of informants at any given time, compiling really massive amounts of data. To me, it is those 3rd party database providers that are the real and pernicious privacy threat.
As far as I know, these data analytic companies collect FAR more than just geolocation data. Many of them also cooperate with programs like Air Miles, store loyalty cards and so on. Which means that not only do they know where you are pretty much in real time, there's a good chance they know your name, credit score, banking information, shopping habits and place of employment. And while there is a tiny minority of people who actually worry about protecting their privacy from these apps (like a majority of slashdotters), very few seem to be taking a step back and worrying about the big picture.
What we need is a way to make protecting privacy more profitable than violating it but I'm certainly not the genius who will come up with one.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
Cancel your account. Or did you expect to get things for free.
That's a great step to take, but Facebook is tracking your location even if you don't have a Facebook account. Facebook knows who you are, where you live, and quite possibly how much money is in your checking account (revealed earlier in the year they had deals with several banks), even if you don't have a Facebook account.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Obviously, you wouldn't get non-consensualy tracked by Facebook if you didn't dress that way.
This whole thing is just a misunderstanding of what the location permission on the smart phone does (and does not). You can bet your sweet bippy pretty much everyone does some sort of IP location based correlation. That's why you should never give your Ip address out on the Internet. Try opting out of that.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
There are only a handful of geolocation and demographic database providers and all of them have numerous data feeds. A rough rule of thumb is that if you are using any free digital based service (Air Miles, store loyalty cards, branded credit cards etc) then these companies know who you are and a scary amount about your shopping habits and normal movement patterns.
As in the world of counter-inelligence, the problem isn't the spy. It is the intelligence agency that employs the spy. It's just that the spy happens to be one thing you might catch and defeat. Good counter-inel isn't just making sure you have no spies in your camp. It is also things like making sure none of your people leave useful information left laying around and carefully feeding false information to the other side. Thing is, that is very hard to do even for very good intelligence agencies. It is hopeless to think of the general mass of humanity (most of whom don't care) achieving the same level of vigilance.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
...and then complain that they know where they live?
If you are technical, you can build a VM, use Chrome Remote Desktop to remote in from anywhere you are to that VM, and have Facebook goodness anywhere. Plus, if Facebook compromises the VM via malvertising or some other means, a restore from a snapshot is a click away.
Being in the Apple ecosystem has different, but equally shitty problems.
Thats the people who pay for using social media get.
A setting on some "GUI" will not change the ads.
The users are the product and cant escape with a setting in a GUI.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Who would have thought that web servers hosting text and images would *gasp* get your IP address...
It's not like we have any geo location technology to find out location by IP or anything, especially here in the US.
Facebook knows where she lives. Did she really think that it would forget just because she isn't being tracked currently? If she goes on vacation elsewhere and FB starts sending ads tied to that location let us know, but her "proof" that they are still tracking her is not proof at all.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Apps that aren't installed have an even harder time tracking you.
Good luck finding a smartphone that doesn't have facebook pre-installed in a way that prevents uninstallation. You can of course choose to not use it (and even go so far as to never sign in to it) but finding one that doesn't have it is nearly impossible.
My Kyocera Hydro VIBE didn't come with the Facebook app.
I'm sure there are many second-tier phones (ie: not iPhone or Galaxy, etc...) w/o Facebook pre-installed.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
"... we collect from IP addresses... to ensure we are providing people with a good service -- [like] ensuring they see Facebook in the right language"
Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Because I should always be served ads in whatever language I'm geographically surrounded by, rather than the language I speak natively and could easily specify via preference. I *totally* buy it.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Use a VPN and connect to a server in another State (or even another country). You should be using a VPN anyway just to be on the safe side.
Want make my blood boil then say stupid shit like " We use city and zip level location which we collect from IP addresses and other information such as check-ins and current city from your profile to ensure we are providing people with a good service -- from ensuring they see Facebook in the right language ". The right language is NOT related to where I am, it related to my OS and browser. It pisses me off that some smart ass has decided that because I am visiting some countries that I have instantly become fluent in the local language and no longer want to use the language I chose when I set up my device. Facebook are not alone in this shit. I though these companies employed clever people so why can't they work this out?
My cheap Moto E didn't and doesn't have Facebook on it. The only extras were a file manager, FM radio app and a lost device locator app, none of which run in the background, well the FM radio can.
It does have too much Google crap on it though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Apps that aren't running have a real hard time tracking where you are.
No they don't. Not if by "running" you mean having some kind of user-facing UI. Apps run services in the background all the time and yes, they collect information about where you are.
The line between app and malware is shockingly blurry, since app vendors fell free to collect, transmit and share data about you without your awareness.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Many companies do this too. :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
My Windows phone (Nokia Lumia 950) doesn't have an FB app, and never did.
I'll sell you my Windows phone. Cracked screen, but otherwise good. So long as you don't want a bunch of games, etc. ... and you don't want FB.
have you tried via the debug bridge?
"The line between app and malware is shockingly blurry"
By the standards of early 2000s, when I had my first job in network security, every app on my Android phone - as well as the OS itself - is malware.
Or better, send your congressman a suitcase full of cash and ask him to please ban Faceboot's cyberstalking-based business model. (You can also write to your congressman without sending a suitcase full of cash, but don't expect him to give a fuck what you say.)
Good luck finding a smartphone that doesn't have facebook pre-installed in a way that prevents uninstallation. You can of course choose to not use it (and even go so far as to never sign in to it) but finding one that doesn't have it is nearly impossible.
Easy, and wrong, respectively. Also, irrelevant. You can disable apps so they don't function. But also, it's trivial to find such a phone. Just buy one that hasn't been raped by a carrier. They don't have any non-removable bundled apps. Also, it's irrelevant because you're already a fool if you buy a phone whose bootloader you can't unlock, so that you can replace the OS install entirely. If you can't be arsed to do the research ahead of time, you'll get what you deserve.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"There is no way for people to opt out of using location for ads entirely," said a Facebook spokesperson by email.
Of course there is. You can just delete your FB account.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The solution to this problem is quite simple. Start by taking out your sim (if you have one) snap it in half. Throw your phone on the ground, and smash it. Now buy a dumb phone. You won't be able to access facebook, but then you won't get adds and if the phone is dumb enough it won't even have GPS capabilities. Problem solved.
Whenever a player quits EVE to go play WoW, the Average IQ of both games increase.
Facebook could be dead in the water for all intents and purposes by the New Year of there was some kind of sea change in how ads on Facebook are viewed. If people en masse decided to hard boycott every advertiser there, the ad companies would yank their ads pretty damned quick. Facebook has enough cash reserves to outlast most boycotts, but of everyone stuck to the boycotts and contacted vendors directly and explicitly said the boycott is because Facebook has proven itself to be fundamentally hostile to the very concept of privacy and by extension, any one who advertises there is going to be assumed to be equally evil.
But as I said before, most people just don't care even when some outrageous violation hits the headlines. At best you see a slump in Facebook use and a small bit of boycotting, a boycott that also doesn't last for more than a month or two.
As I see it, our best and perhaps only hope is for a legislative solution. Fines with real bite to them, laws written with an eye to recruiting the public as eager informants. For example: Facebook took in over 40 BILLION dollars in gross revenue for 2017. Doing a cursory Google search, I find that most fines that Facebook has been handed are in the one million U$ range. That's ten minutes revenue. Another way to put it? Using 100U$ bills, their fines would be a large briefcase each. Meanwhile FORTY tractor trailers full of cash are backing up the Facebook loading dock every year. (35% of which is profit) There just is NO way the kind of fines we're seeing are going to effect change. The EU might fine them a billion or so, but based on past results, Facebook likely won't have to pay anything that large.
What I'd want to do is write a law that ALL profits resulting as a result of a privacy violation are forfeit. Moreover, that the entire amount then be handed over to all the registered users affected by the breach. In other words, the recent Cambridge Analytica scandal would cost Facebook roughly 14 BILLION. Now, Facebook has a LOT of users. Recipients might see 5 or 10 bucks, but it would utterly cripple Facebook. NO Internet advertising platform in the world would dare risk that, no investor would put money into a company that didn't give good assurances that the company has done everything possible to mitigate that risk. They would not only have to take real steps to guard user privacy, it would be sound financial sense to spend good money on proper tech and admins to protect that. As a bonus, it means every user would then have a real (albeit small) personal stake in keeping an eye on those platform's behaviour. (the sound of investors screaming as their expected dividends evaporated would be music to my ears)
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj