Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Chinese Billionaire Jack Ma Says the US Wasted Trillions on Warfare Instead of Investing in Infrastructure (cnbc.com)

Posted by msmash on from the opposing-perspective dept.

Alibaba founder Jack Ma fired a shot at the United States in an interview at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. An anonymous reader shares a report: Ma was asked by CNBC's Andrew Ross Sorkin about the U.S. economy in relation to China, since President-elect Donald Trump has been talking about imposing new tariffs on Chinese imports. Ma says blaming China for any economic issues in the U.S. is misguided. If America is looking to blame anyone, Ma said, it should blame itself. "It's not that other countries steal jobs from you guys," Ma said. "It's your strategy. Distribute the money and things in a proper way." He said the U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion in fighting wars over the past 30 years rather than investing in infrastructure at home.

To be sure, Ma is not the only critic of the costly U.S. policies of waging war against terrorism and other enemies outside the homeland. Still, Ma said this was the reason America's economic growth had weakened, not China's supposed theft of jobs. In fact, Ma called outsourcing a "wonderful" and "perfect" strategy. "The American multinational companies made millions and millions of dollars from globalization," Ma said. "The past 30 years, IBM, Cisco, Microsoft, they've made tens of millions -- the profits they've made are much more than the four Chinese banks put together. ... But where did the money go?"

14 of 594 comments (clear)

  1. He not wrong by fred6666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The US could cut its defense budget in half and nothing would change. The Russians would still have invaded and kept Crimea. The Chinese would still not have invaded Taiwan. Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq would be pretty much in the same state.

    1. Re:He not wrong by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Pretty much. The US has spent 4-5% of its GDP on military for decades. Are our US citizens safer for all these pricey foreign entanglements? No. We still lost Vietnam. We are more targeted by terrorists and murderers than ever before. We still handed over Iraq to Iran. We still let Russia waltz into Crimea. We are still side players in the fate of Syria.

      The warmongers like to talk of the threat of China. But China is doing nothing more than all modern powers do: spends ballpark 2% or less. Because spending more is throwing money away.

    2. Re:He not wrong by The+Snazster · · Score: 5, Informative

      China loves free trade . . . for everyone else. For themselves they much prefer mercantilism (fostering their economy with subsidies, tariffs, investment controls, currency controls, technology theft, government sponsored corporate spying, and any other trade barriers they can raise to their advantage). It's past time the playing field was leveled. If they want to keep playing with the big kids they need to start playing by the rules.

      Too many chump western politicians have let this go for far too long, rather than make the necessary waves.

    3. Re:He not wrong by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is coming from an admitted Communist Party member

      Being a member of the CPC doesn't mean anything in terms of beliefs or ideology. Most people join to improve their career prospects. It is a difficult process. A candidate must take an exam, and provide personal references to his good character. But once you are in, you are in an elite club with many benefits and privileges ... which is sort of ironic when you consider what Communism is supposed to be.

      In America, people with different views join different political parts. But in China, there is only one party, so ambitious people of every ideology join. The CPC has everything from reactionary Maoists to free-market libertarians.

      ... from a country that doesn't value Freedom.

      Per capita, America imprisons far more people than China. This is true even if you include the ~1M Uyghurs in "re-education" camps. China is certainly repressive, but I don't think America is a good counter-example of a "Shining City on the Hill".

      Well here in the USA we value are freedoms and will spend no expense to defend it.

      If our defense budget was cut in half, which freedoms would I lose?

    4. Re:He not wrong by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Defense spending is 15% of all federal spending and the largest category of discretionary spending. It accounts for $610 billion (as of the time of the graphic) of all federal spending.

      You are correct in that there would still be an annual deficit. Current projections for 2018 show a deficit of $810 billion. That would be mean cutting defense spending in half would account for a 38% reduction in our yearly deficit.

      I don't know about you, but if I could reduce my deficit by one third, that seems like a pretty good idea.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    5. Re:He not wrong by penandpaper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Per capita, America imprisons far more people than China. ... I don't think America is a good counter-example of a

      Being arrested for drugs versus being arrested for the wrong religion. Seems comparable. What people are arrested for is far more important than total quantity and per capita.

      Most of the incarcerations in the US are for drug offenses. People voted for those laws and have the power to repeal those laws, as many are doing. Enforcing laws with the consent of the governed via elections is a good thing. Even if the laws are bad. As long as it doesn't violate the Constitution the States can outlaw things, like drugs, incandescent light bulbs, and walking your giraffe down main street (is a law in a city I know).

      Show me a country that cannot outlaw hate speech that allows unrestricted self defense and I will show you a more free country even with vigorously enforced drugs laws.

  2. Yes and no by ChromeAeonuim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    blaming China for any economic issues in the U.S. is misguided

    You mean besides state sponsored IP theft, currency manipulation, dumping practices, and disregarding human & environmental welfare to compete on price?

    He's not wrong about the war part. Bush, Cheney, and their cronies emptied the country's coffers to enrich a handful of millionaire and billionaires in the military industrial complex with their bullshit wars. What they did is inexcusable, especially when you consider the opportunity cost of not investing that vast sum of money elsewhere (ex infrastructure, education, healthcare, research, alternative energy, ect.). Think of what we could have if that money was spent productively, like finding cures for diseases (much more likely to hurt you than a terrorist) or aerospace, or any number of other things, and the US needs to get it's shit together when it comes to planning for the future. But China isn't playing entirely fair either.

    he American multinational companies made millions and millions of dollars from globalization,

    When Joe Schmoe's job disappeared, he didn't see a gain, it was so a millionaire could have even more. It's not hard to understand why some people are unhappy.

  3. conservative welfare & socialism by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's face it: our military is conservative welfare. If you live in a small town or rural area, the only job opportunity for many young men is the military.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  4. Re:Cool! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What a dipshit

    Logical fallacy: argumentum ad hominem.

    The fact that he is a dipshit does not change the validity of his argument. An assertion should be judged on its merits, not on the character of the advocate.

    America is spending a trillion dollars on a new manned fighter as we enter an age that will almost certainly be dominated by drones.

    America is spending $1.2 trillion on nuclear modernization despite already having 10 times the nuke capability of China.

    Prior to WW2, America spent little on the peacetime military. Instead, we had to "gear up" for each war. After WW2, we went to permanently high spending.

    Let's look at the "before" and "after" scorecard:

    Before:
    1776 - Won - American Revolution
    1812 - Tie - War of 1812
    1847 - Won - Mexican War
    1861 - Won - Civil War
    1898 - Won - Spanish-American War
    1914 - Won - WW1
    1941 - Won - WW2

    After:
    1950 - Tie - Korean War
    1964 - Lost - Vietnam
    1982 - Lost - Lebanon intervention
    1991 - Thought we won, but eventually lost - Iraq
    1992 - Lost - Somalia
    2003 - Lost - Iraq
    2001 - Lost - Afghanistan

    So is "eternal vigilance" actually working? I don't think so, and the evidence suggests that the main effect of a "always ready" military is that it makes it really easy to jump into stupid wars without clear goals or strategies.

  5. Wrong by sycodon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We re losing jobs because China and other countries tolerate working conditions, environmental transgressions, and things that would never fly in the US.

    You CANNOT pick up a Chinese steel plant, drop it in Ohio, and operate it at the same level of profit as you can in China, even taking into account the wages and cost of materials. THAT is why US manufacturers go there.

    Some people say we have outsourced jobs. What we really outsourced was the pollution and working conditions that would never be tolerated in the U.S.

    Which begs the question: If it's not OK to manufacture things in the US under these conditions, then why is it OK to do so in China? If we import these items, are we not even a little bit morally responsible for the misery and pollution inflicted while creating these things?

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wrong, we are losing jobs because they are gone. Today it takes 20 hours of human labor to build a car, in 1980 it was over 100. So most of the auto workers are gone. Not coming back. Ever.

  6. Re:We've been tricked by the 1% by Phillip2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "green energy subsidies"

    Carbon, fossil fuel subsides also. Just for balance. The majority of coal in the US is now uneconomic against green energy but is subsidised so they still buy it.

  7. Cut "defense" budget, gain freedom. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Informative

    "If our defense budget was cut in half, which freedoms would I lose?"

    You would gain freedom, because there would be more money for taking care of citizens.

    The "Defense" of the U.S. is poorly managed. Highly qualified people don't want to work helping the military kill people and destroy property.

    800 military bases in more than 70 countries: Where in the World Is the U.S. Military?

    Quote:

    "Despite recently closing hundreds of bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad -- from giant "Little Americas" to small radar facilities. Britain, France and Russia, by contrast, have about 30 foreign bases combined."

  8. Worry about the message, not the messenger. by imperious_rex · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Jack Ma isn't the first person to point this out and certainly won't be the last. For example, Thomas Friedman has been saying this for years. Friedman questioned the wisdom of pouring money into countries that will NEVER amount to anything. Afghanistan will always be a backwards, tribal s**thole country riven by warlords and violence. Iraq has a tiny sliver of potential to be more than just another oil barrel nation, but it's too rife with corruption and sectarian grudges to ever realize that potential. Friedman pointed out that the amount of money pissed away on our adventures in the middle-east and central Asia could buy every American a 4-year college degree and still have money left over for infrastructure development and other societal ills. What really saddens me is that we're 17 years into this "Forever War," and every year the memory of living in a nation at peace fades just a little bit more.