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Chinese Billionaire Jack Ma Says the US Wasted Trillions on Warfare Instead of Investing in Infrastructure (cnbc.com)
Alibaba founder Jack Ma fired a shot at the United States in an interview at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. An anonymous reader shares a report: Ma was asked by CNBC's Andrew Ross Sorkin about the U.S. economy in relation to China, since President-elect Donald Trump has been talking about imposing new tariffs on Chinese imports. Ma says blaming China for any economic issues in the U.S. is misguided. If America is looking to blame anyone, Ma said, it should blame itself. "It's not that other countries steal jobs from you guys," Ma said. "It's your strategy. Distribute the money and things in a proper way." He said the U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion in fighting wars over the past 30 years rather than investing in infrastructure at home.
To be sure, Ma is not the only critic of the costly U.S. policies of waging war against terrorism and other enemies outside the homeland. Still, Ma said this was the reason America's economic growth had weakened, not China's supposed theft of jobs. In fact, Ma called outsourcing a "wonderful" and "perfect" strategy. "The American multinational companies made millions and millions of dollars from globalization," Ma said. "The past 30 years, IBM, Cisco, Microsoft, they've made tens of millions -- the profits they've made are much more than the four Chinese banks put together. ... But where did the money go?"
To be sure, Ma is not the only critic of the costly U.S. policies of waging war against terrorism and other enemies outside the homeland. Still, Ma said this was the reason America's economic growth had weakened, not China's supposed theft of jobs. In fact, Ma called outsourcing a "wonderful" and "perfect" strategy. "The American multinational companies made millions and millions of dollars from globalization," Ma said. "The past 30 years, IBM, Cisco, Microsoft, they've made tens of millions -- the profits they've made are much more than the four Chinese banks put together. ... But where did the money go?"
The US could cut its defense budget in half and nothing would change. The Russians would still have invaded and kept Crimea. The Chinese would still not have invaded Taiwan. Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq would be pretty much in the same state.
Well, he's right... We've been complaining here about inequality and how trickle-down economics don't work, and that's exactly what he's saying. It's not news though. The billionaires took control of politics and have been accumulating both money and power, and have been lying and getting votes from the exact people that would benefit most from redistribution. But that's okay... we prefer to believe we all have a chance at the American Dream, rather than have anything that resembles socialism.
While I expect his statement is meant as a Pro-China anti-US rant probably to rial up the Chinese citizens to help them deal with the economic hardships from the opposed restriction to their trade. Also would want the US to lower its military presence so China would have greater influence.
However he isn't wrong, the US has been complacent in investing into itself. Defecate spending isn't a bad thing, if the money is being put into US services that that will pay for it self later on. However our taxes go mostly to the Military first, and what is left will get the crumbs. This creates a lot of holes in our safety net. This will prevent people from trying to take a risk and start a new business, get up and move to a different state or city to get a new job, being afraid to switch jobs even ones you hate, because you need the medical insurance.
The conservative faction of the US calls such services as un-american, because that is what the Communist do. However a Democratic Republic with a Capitalist economy can have these support services as well too. The Communist also drink Vodka, so do Capitalist.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It might just be possible to be a billionaire in the US without being an evil psychopath. Maybe. But not in China, where you must be complicit in the atrocities of its government in order to succeed in any noteworthy way.
But of course China wants us to have a weaker military. Water is wet, the Pope shits in the woods, and China wants the possible military opponent with the strongest military to be weaker. What were the odds? Taiwan isn't going to conquer itself, after all.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
blaming China for any economic issues in the U.S. is misguided
You mean besides state sponsored IP theft, currency manipulation, dumping practices, and disregarding human & environmental welfare to compete on price?
He's not wrong about the war part. Bush, Cheney, and their cronies emptied the country's coffers to enrich a handful of millionaire and billionaires in the military industrial complex with their bullshit wars. What they did is inexcusable, especially when you consider the opportunity cost of not investing that vast sum of money elsewhere (ex infrastructure, education, healthcare, research, alternative energy, ect.). Think of what we could have if that money was spent productively, like finding cures for diseases (much more likely to hurt you than a terrorist) or aerospace, or any number of other things, and the US needs to get it's shit together when it comes to planning for the future. But China isn't playing entirely fair either.
he American multinational companies made millions and millions of dollars from globalization,
When Joe Schmoe's job disappeared, he didn't see a gain, it was so a millionaire could have even more. It's not hard to understand why some people are unhappy.
That's pretty fucking rich coming from a country that's pouring billions of dollars into building artificial islands in the South China Sea, a brand-new war fleet and expensive ballistic missiles, all of which are designed for the sole and explicit purpose of ejecting the United States from SE Asia by force of arms. To say nothing of blowing tens of billions on the "Belt and Road" initiative, which was intended to spread Chinese influence and control across the region, but has ended up being a colossal waste of money, just like skeptics warned. And this shithead's going to sass us for "wasting money?" Fuck him.
Besides, he knows damn well where the money from globalization went - straight into the pockets of the huge multinational corporations that directly benefited from labor outsourcing, who've either sat on it or re-invested it in expanding factories overseas to employ more foreign workers and create more cheap product - everything and anything butb injecting it into the US economy. We know why our economy stagnated - worker wages flatlining (considering inflation, actual falling) while the globalizing corporations profits skyrocketed. And some of that money went into the pockets of Reps and Senators on both sides of the aisle to keep them lecturing those silly rube voters on why globalism "works."
Fuck Jack Ma, and fuck the Chicoms that brung'im.
Sure, but how much military strength is enough?
Of course this is like asking a billionaire how much wealth is enough. There is never enough!
Isn't it ironic that the supposedly anti-tax party is also the one that supports an expensive military?
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
"The American multinational companies made millions and millions of dollars from globalization"
Billions, not millions.
"Where did it go?
To officers and shareholders of the corporations, i.e. the "elites".
Some of it dribbled down to the workers in China and Vietnam in the form of slave wages, but not all that much. None of it went to American workers, because they're not using American workers. But hey no problem, just get 'em on food stamps and tell them to live in section 8 housing. Who needs a middle class lifestyle?
But it's gonna backfire on them sooner or later. I foresee a socialist revolution in the making, led by the likes of Ocasio-Cortez. Well not by her specifically, I don't think she has the ruthlessness or the balls to become the next Lenin. But someone in her orbit who does have what it takes to be a good dictator and who isn't afraid of executing a few thousand members of the opposition.
Do I want to see such a thing happen? No, not really. Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela etc. weren't exactly pleasant places to live. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, the current rulers of USA (a.k.a. the Deep State) are such despicable characters, it would feel really good to see their billions wiped out and the high and mighty former CEOs and directors and senators become penniless, and then summarily executed 1918 style.
China doesn’t need any carriers, military airplanes, or build artificial islands in South China Sea. They totally could use that money to build more bridges, skyscrapers and maybe fix the roads between Tianjin and Beijing. Or maybe a few more nuclear plants.
He's absolutely right. We've spent trillions of dollars destroying and then rebuilding infrastructure for the Taliban and other terrorist organizations while allowing our own to rot.
Half right, half absolutely wrong.
The US government has spent at least $3 trillion since 2001 destroying infrastructure in Asia and Africa.
But it hasn't rebuilt a single thing. Even in Raqqa, which it bombed relentlessly for months, there are still tens of thousands of corpses rotting under the ruins.
See much rebuilding here?
http://a.abcnews.com/images/In...
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Let's face it: our military is conservative welfare. If you live in a small town or rural area, the only job opportunity for many young men is the military.
Table-ized A.I.
What a dipshit
Logical fallacy: argumentum ad hominem.
The fact that he is a dipshit does not change the validity of his argument. An assertion should be judged on its merits, not on the character of the advocate.
America is spending a trillion dollars on a new manned fighter as we enter an age that will almost certainly be dominated by drones.
America is spending $1.2 trillion on nuclear modernization despite already having 10 times the nuke capability of China.
Prior to WW2, America spent little on the peacetime military. Instead, we had to "gear up" for each war. After WW2, we went to permanently high spending.
Let's look at the "before" and "after" scorecard:
Before:
1776 - Won - American Revolution
1812 - Tie - War of 1812
1847 - Won - Mexican War
1861 - Won - Civil War
1898 - Won - Spanish-American War
1914 - Won - WW1
1941 - Won - WW2
After:
1950 - Tie - Korean War
1964 - Lost - Vietnam
1982 - Lost - Lebanon intervention
1991 - Thought we won, but eventually lost - Iraq
1992 - Lost - Somalia
2003 - Lost - Iraq
2001 - Lost - Afghanistan
So is "eternal vigilance" actually working? I don't think so, and the evidence suggests that the main effect of a "always ready" military is that it makes it really easy to jump into stupid wars without clear goals or strategies.
We re losing jobs because China and other countries tolerate working conditions, environmental transgressions, and things that would never fly in the US.
You CANNOT pick up a Chinese steel plant, drop it in Ohio, and operate it at the same level of profit as you can in China, even taking into account the wages and cost of materials. THAT is why US manufacturers go there.
Some people say we have outsourced jobs. What we really outsourced was the pollution and working conditions that would never be tolerated in the U.S.
Which begs the question: If it's not OK to manufacture things in the US under these conditions, then why is it OK to do so in China? If we import these items, are we not even a little bit morally responsible for the misery and pollution inflicted while creating these things?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
"If our defense budget was cut in half, which freedoms would I lose?"
You would gain freedom, because there would be more money for taking care of citizens.
The "Defense" of the U.S. is poorly managed. Highly qualified people don't want to work helping the military kill people and destroy property.
800 military bases in more than 70 countries: Where in the World Is the U.S. Military?
Quote:
"Despite recently closing hundreds of bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad -- from giant "Little Americas" to small radar facilities. Britain, France and Russia, by contrast, have about 30 foreign bases combined."
Jack Ma isn't the first person to point this out and certainly won't be the last. For example, Thomas Friedman has been saying this for years. Friedman questioned the wisdom of pouring money into countries that will NEVER amount to anything. Afghanistan will always be a backwards, tribal s**thole country riven by warlords and violence. Iraq has a tiny sliver of potential to be more than just another oil barrel nation, but it's too rife with corruption and sectarian grudges to ever realize that potential. Friedman pointed out that the amount of money pissed away on our adventures in the middle-east and central Asia could buy every American a 4-year college degree and still have money left over for infrastructure development and other societal ills. What really saddens me is that we're 17 years into this "Forever War," and every year the memory of living in a nation at peace fades just a little bit more.
Medicaid pretty much requires you to be destitute. If you make $8/hr for 30/week you're not getting it. Source: Have friends & family that depended on it to survive major illnesses.
SNAP has been cut back for decades. WIC too.
The top brackets of our Progressive Income tax have been slashed non-stop for 40 years. Laws were put in place to make it hard to raise them again but easy to cut them, resulting in a "ratcheted" effect where they go down but never up. Government are then forced to implement regressive taxes like the "Netflix" and "Soda" taxes or just plain more sales tax because those aren't covered by the laws.
Good luck getting on SSI Disability. I've got a buddy who's been in a wheel chair his entire life and has massive hearing loss (no call center work for him) and he fights tooth and to get what little he can. Only reason he's not homeless is friends and family keep pitching in.
I could go on. We started slashing the safety net with Reagan. Nobody noticed because there were two massive economic bubbles in a row (Internet and Housing). Those bubbles are over and there's nothing on the horizon, folks are feeling it now. That's how we got a guy like Trump, the lower working class is looking for answers (well, their parents mostly, based on the polls of who voted for him and why). Thing is, we've danced this Charleston before: bad economy, demagogue, desperate working class.... It doesn't end well.
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China is communist in name only. It's a one party dictatorship market-ish economy with uncontrolled capitalism except by the state.
Uh, yes they do. Even the US, probably the wort example in the lot, has been on a steady downtrend of spending since 1954.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
France is the 3rd largest nuclear power, so 2nd largest 1st world nation on that front and their military spending as percent of GDP has been heading down since 1960 too.
https://data.worldbank.org/ind...
So, yeah, you're wrong on the first point. What follows is reasoning from incorrect data.
Actually no, the USSR wasn't certainly communist. Their official stance was that they were merely socialist with the communism as a long-term goal.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap