US Treasury Sanctions 16 Russians For Hacking, Election Meddling (engadget.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Engadget: The Treasury Department has leveled sanctions against 16 current and former GRU intelligence officers (some of whom were targeted in earlier indictments) for their involvement in multiple campaigns against the U.S., including the Democratic National Committee hacks, World Anti-Doping Agency hacks and election meddling efforts. The targets include Elena Khusyaynova, the primary accountant for the Project Lakhta influence campaign that included the Internet Research Agency. The sanctions also target associated entities like the Federal News Agency.

As with the indictments, the sanctions will only have a limited effect. The measure blocks all property and interests from these people that might be in U.S. jurisdictions, and Americans are "generally prohibited" from conducting transactions with them. The targets live in Russia, though, and it's doubtful that they'll travel to countries where the sanctions will hit them. This is more a symbolic gesture than one intended to curb Russian hacks and manipulation attempts.

Comments

AHHH YEAH TRUMP IS GOING TO JAIL

[Anonymous Coward]

*reads the article*

Nevermind. *sad face*

THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

For the last goddamn time, trolling people on facebook is not meddling or tampering or interfering with an election.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[alex67500]

Actually, deliberately spreading false statements in an effort to sway voters one way or another sounds like election meddling to me -- trying to add votes is called fraud, not meddling.

US, UK, Italy, Brazil,... People are falling for it everywhere.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

deliberately spreading false statements in an effort to sway voters one way or another sounds like election meddling to me

So CNN, NYT, WaPo, HuffPo, etc should be locked up for election meddling?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, deliberately spreading false statements in an effort to sway voters one way or another sounds like election meddling to me...

That includes Obama's failed attempt to influence the UK Brexit Referendum in 2016.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Archtech]

Actually, deliberately spreading false statements in an effort to sway voters one way or another sounds like election meddling to me -- trying to add votes is called fraud, not meddling.

And who is the anointed judge of which statements are true, and which are false?

You, presumably.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

There was, there was. You're just too dumb to notice.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, deliberately spreading false statements in an effort to sway voters one way or another sounds like election meddling to me -- trying to add votes is called fraud, not meddling.

And who is the anointed judge of which statements are true, and which are false?

You, presumably.

Truth exists. You can ignore it or call it lies, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring it. Many things were said by Trump and the Russian aids that were trivially proven untrue, usually with a 30 second Google search.

The fact that Trump defends this behaviour after the fact by minimizing it and ignoring it, or flat out lying, is extremely shameful and a complete and total violation of his oath of office. He swore to protect the country against ALL enemies foreign and domestic. Any entity that promotes propaganda and lies is an enemy, for a democratic society depends on truth for its proper functioning.

Re: THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the Fake News colluders deserve it.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

every fucking moron in congress that has supported this dipshit president and this joke of an administration should be 'locked up'.

every clueless fuck that voted for trump should be forced to at least re-take (and pass) junior high (lets get real here, most never did pass and graduate high school, so we have to go back a few grades) civics and american history.

fox'news' should be stripped of any credentials saying they're "news" or bonafide journalists. they themselves have called themselves 'entertainment'.. (as opposed to 'news'). so lets quit treating them like a real news outlet. their broadcasts are largely fictional, they should get no special treatment, no press passes, or constitutional protections for 'the press'.

ALL religious organizations, including churches, should be investigated for tax fraud, as most are NOT in compliance with the tax code that grants them their special tax free status.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[MightyMartian]

All Obama said was that he was not going to prioritize a trade deal with the UK. In fact that pretty much what US policy has been since Obama made his Administration's position clear. It's not like the current Republican president or the republican-contrklled Senate has made any grand overtures to Britain. A trade deal between the US and post-Brexif Britain is no closer today than during the referendum. Trump is no more going to rescue Britain from its attempt at economic and political suicide than Obama would have.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

There can just be no other reason for the way they are voting, huh? Your purposeful ignorance of the situation is a guarantee that you are going to keep getting outraged. That's what the media companies want. They lie and lie and lie and there are no repercussions. Your outrage is the dollar signs in their eyes. Even intelligent people are falling victim to this. Just stop. Step back. Go outside and watch the sky for a bit. Try to understand that some people think differently than you do. They are not stupid or bad people. They are people, your fellow man. Where is the love?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Archtech]

That includes Obama's failed attempt to influence the UK Brexit Referendum in 2016.

One of the main reasons many of us voted Leave.

If Obama ordered me to drink a triple Glenmorangie, I would seriously consider not doing so.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Archtech]

A lot of nonsense is talked about "trade deals" between governments. In fact, of course, governments cannot make any positive contributions to trade - or, really, much of anything else.

But they can screw it up thoroughly if they put their minds to it.

"Free trade" is what people did before there were governments to stop them. It's politicians, and only politicians, who impose tariffs, tell us what we can and can't buy or sell, and thus make global commerce run as smoothly as a car with the handbrake permanently applied.

Governments having "trade negotiations" are like gangsters divvying up the spoils of their respective territories.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Archtech]

Truth exists. You can ignore it or call it lies, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring it. Many things were said by Trump and the Russian aids that were trivially proven untrue, usually with a 30 second Google search.

Whether truth exists, as you say, or not is a question that philosophers have been arguing about for several thousand years - and they still haven't decided.

Imagine a world with no human beings, or reasoning animals of any kind. In that world, does truth "exist"? What is, certainly is. But where does "truth" come into it? Truth is a feature of statements: we say that some are true and others are false. No people, no statements, no truth or falsity.

It is a bit worrying that your concern for truth seems narrowly focused on Mr Trump and his supporters. Do you understand that other people tell lies, too? And people often say things that are untrue without realising it - which are not lies, just mistakes. (Just saying...)

Lastly, your innocent remark about relying on "a 30 second Google search" to establish the truth knocks the bottom out of any credibility you might have had. Google? Really?? I suppose the 30 seconds is how long it takes you to look down the list of Google hits and find one that suits your particular bias.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Archtech]

There was, there was. You're just too dumb to notice.

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye".

- Matthew 7:5

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

What a US president said about anything was a main reason you UK guys decided to do anything in particular? LOL Let alone set yourself up for failure like that, that's funny.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Lastly, your innocent remark about relying on "a 30 second Google search" to establish the truth knocks the bottom out of any credibility you might have had. Google? Really?? I suppose the 30 seconds is how long it takes you to look down the list of Google hits and find one that suits your particular bias.

Nice try, but the truths in question are not the nature of existence. They were frequently things as simple as the size of his inauguration crown, whether or not it rained, whether or not he defeated isis, whether or not he had killed obamacare..

Hell the post has like a list of 6000.. I'm sure they'd appreciate it if you pointed out any inacuracies..

Re: THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed. Now does anyone have contact details for those hit by these sanctions so we know who to thank?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

What is that meant to prove? That tu quoque is not only a logical fallacy but also religious nonsense?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

What if Obama told you the Earth was an oblate spheroid and orbited the Sun? You'd seriously consider becoming a Flat-Earther?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Aww, a no-government fundie. They're always soooo cute.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[drinkypoo]

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye".

Are you suggesting that he's dumb and should get smart, or that his party is also corrupt and he should address that? Because either way, every time we look (at republican request) for democrats meddling in elections, we actually find republicans meddling in elections instead.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[MightyMartian]

I have a hard time figuring out whether you're naive or a moron. Goods that traverse any border by their very nature are the province of governments. Why do you think the Framers put the interstate commerce clause in the Constitution?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Shaitan]

"Many things were said by Trump and the Russian aids that were trivially proven untrue, usually with a 30 second Google search."

Yes but not the biggest and most important ones. A major domestic political party did rig their primaries contrary to the interests of the actual voters in the party and all this bullshit about russia has been news primarily for the purpose of distracting you from that.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[LynnwoodRooster]

Would that mean that Dan Rather was guilty of election meddling?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[LynnwoodRooster]

every clueless fuck that voted for trump should be forced to at least re-take (and pass) junior high (lets get real here, most never did pass and graduate high school, so we have to go back a few grades) civics and american history.

Hillary Clinton won CA by 61% to 31% over Donald Trump - 2nd only to Hawaii. Yet, if you dig into the statistics, you'll find that California is number 1 in percentage of residents 25 and older who never finished 9th grade, and ranks 50th in terms of high school graduation rates.

Seems to me that you should change your perspective about who actually passed...

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mom's calling you upstairs, dinner is ready.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[LynnwoodRooster]

Words are one thing; sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence foreign elections is another.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[MightyMartian]

At worst this was inappropriate vetting of an NGO. The whole "Obama used State Department cash to undermine Netanyahu" is nothing more than a conspiracy theory with no evidence. Even the article you link to makes it clear that OneVoice probably used the money in a fashion not intended for.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

He already is

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

I've come to realize that there really are only two political parties in the US: The (D)emocrats and the (R)ussians.

Go fuck yourself, Ivan. We see right through you.

You made it too obvious when you left Faux-"News" off the list. Everybody in the US knows they are the undisputed king of propaganda.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Archtech]

Nice try, but the truths in question are not the nature of existence. They were frequently things as simple as the size of his inauguration crown, whether or not it rained, whether or not he defeated isis, whether or not he had killed obamacare..

Hell the post has like a list of 6000.. I'm sure they'd appreciate it if you pointed out any inacuracies..

Funny list.

The only one that matters at all (at least to anyone who isn't a US citizen) is "whether or not he defeated ISIS". Obviously he didn't: even if he were disposed to, his staff and the denizens of the Pentagon, State and the CIA would have put him straight.

Inasmuch as there is something called "ISIS", it has been defeated in Syria by the efforts of Russia, Syria, Iran and Hezbollah. (Where by "Syria" I mean the Syrian armed forces, the Syrian government, and many Syrian citizens whether acting as individuals or in concert as militias).

The US government would not try to destroy ISIS, which it created and has sustained at such cost down the years.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

What a coincidence!! That 25% very closely approximates the percentage of the Californian population that are (R)epublican , or (R)ussian, if you will.

And when you look at education levels vs political ideology - well, let's just say that when you put two and two together, we can see who it lacking in their education.

Remember how America used to take pride in the slogan "Better dead, than red"? You know, "red" being a double-entendre for Russia, as well as the color of the (R)epublican - or, again, (R)ussian party.

Say, you wouldn't happen to be looking for any nuclear wessels, would you, Ivan?

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Translation: ANYBODY THAT DISAGREES WITH ME IS A RUSSIAN!!

Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like

Re: THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

So what does a college education have to do with actual wisdom? All the boobs with bs *-studies degrees couldnt pour water out of a boot. Give me a salt of the earth type ie Trump voter over some effete collegetard pajama boy snowflake any day

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

You're talking about the Killian documents controversy? That involves Dan Rather (and others at CBS) reporting incorrect information that they believed was true, apparently failing to do due diligence in verifying it. Someone falsified those documents, but there's no reason to believe it was Dan Rather or anyone else working for CBS.

There's a huge difference between reporting false information because your knowledge is incorrect and reporting false information because you fabricated it from thin air. Those that do the former should be embarrassed and people should know they might not be trustworthy; those that do the latter are committing fraud and should be investigated as such.

Re: THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

So chris steele who prepared the thoroughly debunked dossier from russian intelligence sources recently admitted *under oath in civil court* that the dossier was created for the express purpose of allowing hillary to "contest the legitamacy of the election if trump won"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/12/christopher-steele-hillary-clinton-was-preparing-t/

But keep on with the double talk and projection. Why not you lefties have been doing it since the germans paid off lenin to start the russian revolution

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Curunir_wolf]

"Meddling," huh? Can you quote the law section that prohibits election "meddling?" Is that part of the FEC regulations? No, that would only apply to registered electioneers. Just what law is it that forbids "meddling," anyway?

Re: THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

So chris steele who prepared the thoroughly debunked dossier

That 'debunked' dossier has been pretty damn accurate on most of the claims it has made. Some things are still unverifyable (like the pee tapes).

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Can'tNot]

The fuck? Here is one of many that he used to justify splitting up families. You think that isn't important?

Here is one of many that he used to try and subvert the democratic process. This is what our country is based on. I will just tell you if you can't understand this: this is important.

Here is one that he used to justify cutting taxes even further for the 5,000 richest people in the country. I think that's important, because *someone* still needs to pay those taxes. These tax cuts have not come with matching budget cuts. I think that's really important.

Those are just a few. Trump's list is 33 pages long, and he's only been president for two years. And you're waving all that away because you don't know what primary elections are? Fine: primary elections are a means that private organizations (political parties) use to determine their candidates. Primaries can be conducted in any way and in any order that the parties choose, and in the United States they're primarily organized at the state level. (Remember in 2008, when the Florida Democrats held their primary out of order and the results were disqualified by the DNC? The Democratic party can do that, because primaries are an internal decision-making process of a private organization.)

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Actually, deliberately spreading false statements in an effort to sway voters one way or another sounds like election meddling to me -- trying to add votes is called fraud, not meddling.

And who is the anointed judge of which statements are true, and which are false?

You, presumably.

Political speech is the most protected of all, even lies, lest the government, i.e. those with armed police behind them, become the Arbiters of Truth.

The question here is you don't know which troll posts are foreign government-placed on myriad sites.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Shaitan]

"You think that isn't important?"

I don't recall having said either way. Also, you do know you are referencing a site with partisan bias. A subtle clue is something inflammatory like "pants on fire" in a headline. Snark is not a typical characteristic of legitimate unbiased news sources.

Not that there is much point, you are clearly a partisan and partisans don't use the reasoning centers of their brains to evaluate political issues.

For someone who is not a partisan and reading this. The only issue I'd speak to is illegal immigrants voting. Whether there is "evidence" of it or not, I lived in New Mexico for several years. The MVD is outsourced, they are like 7-11's. Illegal immigrants flood in via El Paso, TX (having also spend time at and crossing this border for Dental work, I can assure you that at least as of a few years ago it is thoroughly infiltrated with Latin King gang members who wear obvious, visible, and well known King ink). Every so often they'll "bust" a MVD giving out ID to illegals but it is highly doubtful it puts any kind of dent in the activity. Every one of them has the documentation needed to vote.

I have no numbers or evidence of any of them voting but I'd hazard the safe middle is probably about half, so that anyone asserting it is insignificant is preposterous and anyone asserting they are all out voting is also preposterous.

Other states have reciprocal agreements of course and New Mexico is hardly the only state with an outsourced MVD.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Can'tNot]

Snark is not a typical characteristic of legitimate unbiased news sources.

I have never heard this claim before. It's awfully convenient, given that most political comedy is left-leaning. Just another reason to dismiss anything that makes Trump look bad? I've been dismayed to see that people have been so willing to cast aside even the idea of fact checking, holding politicians accountable for what they say.

Incidentally, you seem to be confused about what the word partisan means. Partisanship is about favoring one party or person or side. It's not about disfavoring one party or person or side. Disliking Trump does not make me partisan, it's just a rational response to his actions.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[LynnwoodRooster]

The problem was that Mr. Rather didn't admit he got it wrong; in fact, he went so far as to claim "fake but accurate", and while it could never be substantiated he claimed the information was 100% correct. With no way to prove it as such. That jumps from the realm of factual to the realm of advocacy and lying (knowingly stating something as true that you know cannot be proven). That is what led to his downfall - refusing to admit he made an error, and doubling-down on a complete fabrication as "fake but accurate" - with nothing to substantiate his position.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Then stop buying into all the propaganda your president (Putin) is feeding you.

Putin's little bitch, Trump, certainly isn't doing anything to unite the country. He seems quite happy dividing it further. This way, when he inevitably fails, he can spin up a his finger-pointing narrative, by trying to blame it on the Democrats.

Didn't it ever occur to you that he can't get anything done in a Republican controlled congress? Even they don't agree with his policies.

Wake the fuck up.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Archtech]

I have a hard time figuring out whether you're naive or a moron.

Well, that's the Dunning-Kruger effect for you.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Shaitan]

"I have never heard this claim before. It's awfully convenient, given that most political comedy is left-leaning."

And to left leaning or right leaning is synonymous with biased. Both toward left or right but also toward partisan politics. As it happens almost all right leaning news includes a comedic and snarky element as well. That is actually what made the old Colbert Report parody possible and subtle. You are likely too offended by what they are saying to catch when they are joking and treat it all as literal.

"Just another reason to dismiss anything that makes Trump look bad? It's not about disfavoring one party or person or side. Disliking Trump does not make me partisan"

No, but given that this isn't a conversation about Trump, you were replying to me and after a couple turns I've still never even so much as used to the word Trump before this I think your comments are doing an excellent job demonstrating my point.

Most of the time there is some element of truth buried in the talking points of both parties but it is rarely the whole truth. Hence me pointing out a middle ground that is likely closer to the real truth. Weak border controls and what is obviously an intentionally lax control of identification documents does create a situation where hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of illegal aliens are in a position to vote or even for legal citizens to vote more than once. In a world where we have partisan action groups putting dead citizens signatures on petitions and dead people voting it would be disingenuous to assume a big loophole like this isn't being abused. It is also very difficult to find evidence to prove it.

Based on that, I can draw no conclusion with regard to how it impacted vote tallies in the Trump election or any other election. I can however conclude that we need to fix it without having any particular fucks one way or another with regard to the Trump election.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

When the IRA closes shop the CIA and 5 eyes countries will watch you for the rest of your life. You and your entire family will get strip searched at every border crossing forever unless you snitch on your buddies now.
That is if you still have anything to tell that your buddies haven't said already.

Poor life choices ; ;

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Can'tNot]

given that this isn't a conversation about Trump

The fuck? (again)
You: "Trump didn't do this thing. And Hillary was worse because she rigged the primaries in some unspecified way."
Me: "Trump did do this thing, here are three examples. And the primaries were not rigged, that's how primaries work."
You: "I'm the one sane person in an insane world, and you are clearly one of the loons. So I don't have to listen to you. Also, Trump's claim is valid because anecdote."
Me: "That's not what sanity is."
You: "This isn't a conversation about Trump. Also some other stuff." (I stopped reading after "This isn't a conversation about Trump.")

You and I are not having the same discussion here. Let's be perfectly clear: this is a conversation about Trump. I don't care at all about your unsupported assumptions regarding illegal voting. (Though I do care, somewhat, about why you believe what you do.) The point, as I said up top, was that Trump lied about something big and important, as he has done repeatedly, and there's no way to justify it. There's no other prominent politician you can point to and say, "Oh, it's okay because that person is worse. They lie bigger or harder than Trump does." You can't do this because there is no one who is worse. Other politicians lie, but there has been no one within my lifetime who has done as much damage to truth as Trump has.

At least not in the US. I can think of quite a few examples of politicians outside of the US who are as bad as Trump, but they're all dictators.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[WheatGrass]

Mnuchin is about as sick of a person as Michael Morell. He just can't seem to destroy our international relations fast enough. Eventually the US populace will become sickened enough by of this one-man judge-jury-executioner wrecking ball and have his ass. Then his trophy wife can take his left over cash and boast about her flippancy with it all over social media.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

I looked at the stats and with 25 and older who never graduated high school at about 15%. I guess that's where the Republican base in rural CA is from. who woulda thought.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[WheatGrass]

Amazingly, one of Obama's last actions as US president was to give BB the Bird. This was done by way of resolution 2334 in December of 2016. The resolution was one of opposition to additional Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territory. Obama really enjoyed sticking it to people -especially President Putin who interfered with US plans to turn Syria into another Iraq or Libya. The Russian intervention amounted to an internationally coordinated and executed disposal of Syrian chemical weapons. It was such a fair proposal that Obama couldn't refuse it without losing face. Yet, he never let go of his grudge and Ukrainians are still paying the price by their deaths due to the Obama / John Kerry DoS overthrow of the fragile, post western-backed Orange Revolution Kiev government. Now we've got Nazis on the lose with US weapons. Obama's legacy is truly one of disgrace. His arrogance is still killing people in Syria, Ukraine, and elsewhere -even today ...and the best our reprobate politicians and bureaucrats can do is blame Putin. What a s_itty country we've become.

Re:THERE WAS NO ELECTION MEDDLING

[Dr_Terminus]

Maybe go figure out why the Hanseatic League was such a big deal when it started, you'll understand that 'free trade' didn't really exist before controls were put in place.

More than just the USA

[jabuzz]

Thing is that the sanctions mean that most Western banks are prohibited from providing them with services because they are also present in the USA. That's a lot more problematic.

Further plenty of countries will be happy to arrest them pending extradition to the USA, including pretty much the entire EU amount others. They will also be unable to get diplomatic passports for pretty much anywhere now, and if Russia issues false identities to get them diplomatic passports they are invalid and that diplomatic immunity is out the window.

For reference just ask Meng Wanzhou how that is working out for her...

Basically if they ever want to step outside Russia they need to be very very careful where they go.

Re:More than just the USA

[Archtech]

Thing is that the sanctions mean that most Western banks are prohibited from providing them with services because they are also present in the USA. That's a lot more problematic.

It simply means that free, independent nations will increasingly make their own arrangements, cutting out the US-controlled banks and institutions entirely. This is already well under way in Russia, China and Iran - and a lot of other countries can see which way the wind is blowing.

If someone potentially hostile is holding your testicles, it is wise to take steps to change the situation. Perhaps by getting someone else to deal the aggressor a smart blow to the head, or - all else failing - by grabbing his nuts, which at least equalizes things.

Further plenty of countries will be happy to arrest them pending extradition to the USA, including pretty much the entire EU [among] others.

Then they simply stay out of those countries, whose numbers are likely to drop rather smartly once they realise the consequences of arbitrarily arresting foreigners without any legal basis. (Just as I suspect we shan't be seeing a lot more Chinese nationals being arrested by Canada or the USA).

They will also be unable to get diplomatic passports for pretty much anywhere now, and if Russia issues false identities to get them diplomatic passports they are invalid and that diplomatic immunity is out the window.

You don't seem to understand how diplomatic passports work. They are issued by a person's own government, like any other passports. If a host nation does not wish to allow entry to a given foreign national - even with a diplomatic passport - that is its right. Of course, denying entry to accredited diplomats is a rather unfriendly move, and would be taken into account in future relations.

Above all, you don't seem to understand that the "new world order" some deranged people in Washington hoped for does not exist. The USA accounts for about 4% of the world's population, and although George Kennan and others resolved in the 1940s to make sure that the USA went on consuming at least 25% of the world's resources, those days are over.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news...

Remember when Michael Flynn started Lock Her Up?

[h33t l4x0r]

Be careful what you wish for.

That's easy

[Anonymous Coward]

The US Treasury took the easy way out, because "hacking" doesn't mean squat, so it's even more applicable than "mail fraud". What's next, sanctioning smurfs for smurfing?

Re: That's easy

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh oh. Are they gonna sanction *hugs* now?

The bigger picture

[Anonymous Coward]

Spies in 2012-2014 caught trying to recruit US:
"Evgeny Buryakov, 39, who posed as an employee in the New York City office of a Russian bank [VTB bank], according to the federal complaint. The man he met regularly for the handoffs was Igor Sporyshev, 40, "

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/27/us/new-york-alleged-russian-spy/index.html

They went around New York developers offering lucrative Moscow property deals in exchange for getting sanctions lifted against Russia.

VTB bank, the bank involved, were sanctioned, the spies were prosecuted and their diplomat handlers kicked out.

This is why Trump was negotiating Trump Tower Moscow all through the election, which would have seen him basically receive $130 million in name licensing fees, and it's why VTB bank was to finance the project.

This is why he lied about the deal, despite knowing he'd already signed onto the deal, and continued to lie until Cohen's trial.
This is why his lawyer, Giuliani, lied about him signing the deal, only admitting Trump had signed it when confronted with the contract.
This is Moscow hid the deal, and went along with Trump's lie, helping him conceal it. They knew he was lying, they had a copy of the letter of intent he so carefully hid from the FBI... yet they cooperated in the lie.

You see why Trump just handed control of Syria over to Moscow? There's trust there, Trump knew Putin would conceal the lies he was telling to the FBI.

Re:The bigger picture

[Anonymous Coward]

You see why Trump just handed control of Syria over to Moscow?

Yeah, he's fulfilling a campaign promise. Ending stupid wars was a position that got him a LOT of votes, and the US getting involved in a Middle Eastern civil war was as bone-headed as they come. Russia can have Syria. Let's see how that works out for them.

Re:The bigger picture

[Archtech]

Spies in 2012-2014 caught trying to recruit US... They went around New York developers offering lucrative Moscow property deals in exchange for getting sanctions lifted against Russia.

That's damned odd, since the sanctions were only imposed in 2014 and later. Did those guys have precognition, or what?

Moreover, the Russian government has never had the slightest motive to try to get sanctions lifted. They have done Europe a lot of economic harm - tens or hundreds of billions worth - and Russia a great deal of good. (Had you noticed that Russia, not the USA, is now the world's leading exporter of wheat? And safe, healthy wheat - not the GM muck the USA produces).

https://russia-insider.com/sit...

Of course it's no skin off Uncle Sam's nose if Europe suffers economic harm. (As, for instance, by buying expensive American LNG instead of cheap Russian gas from a pipeline - while the USA itself, breathtakingly, is buying the cheap Russian stuff). In fact, it's seen as a positive secondary benefit.

The big idea is to keep Russia from cooperating with Europe - especially Germany - to their mutual advantage. It's quite amusing to kibitz and wonder how long the Germans will go on hurting themselves to gratify Washington before they finally start asking, "Why are we actually doing this?" Surely there are limits to the joy of masochism...

Re:The bigger picture

[Archtech]

Russia can have Syria. Let's see how that works out for them.

Russia doesn't want Syria. You may not understand, but some people just want to keep the peace, trade with one another on a fair basis, and live a decent life. It's not compulsory to exploit, plunder, cheat and kill in order to feel valid.

The Russian government waited as long as it possibly could before giving support to the Syrian government. Another month or so, and Syria would have gone the same way as Libya - much to Washington's satisfaction.

Since 2015 Russia has given Syria the minimum help it needed to defeat the terorists, reclaim its cities and other land and remain a viable, democratic, secular society.

What has Russia gained from this? Something very important: it prevented the creation of a terrorist stronghold just 600 miles from its own frontier.

Re:The bigger picture

[drinkypoo]

Russia doesn't want Syria. You may not understand, but some people just want to keep the peace, trade with one another on a fair basis, and live a decent life.

Okay, but we're talking about the leadership of Russia here, and they don't fit that description, so that's irrelevant.

Since 2015 Russia has given Syria the minimum help it needed to

...become a wholly-controlled puppet of Russia.

Re: The bigger picture

[Anonymous Coward]

Syria has been a client state of Russia for a long time. They don't want to lose that.

So let's apply the same legal standards to Hillary

[Anonymous Coward]

Flynn: no lawyers in his multiple FBI interviews
Hillary!: nine lawyers in her one FBI interview, no notes by FBI allowed

Flynn: failed to register as a foreign agent while he was a private citizen
Hillary!: made millions via Clinton Foundation from Russia while she was Secretary of State approving Uranium One deal.

Flynn: going to jail
Hillary!: Free despite setting up a private email server, almost certainly hacked by multiple foreign intelligence services, and putting classified data on it. Free despite having her uncleared maid handle top secret information. Free despite directing subordinate to remove classification markings and send classified data via her insecure email.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

But, but, but Hillary!!1 Buttery males!

Deflector shields up, Captain!

US sanction on people in Russia

[Anonymous Coward]

That'll show them, for sure.

rats jumping ship=surface is near

[Anonymous Coward]

clinging to our hemispheres we save our gumption for the remergence? cease fire stand down.. recycle the obsoletely fatal wmd on credit factories into community centers.. truth+mercy=justice.. in the life extending spiritual nature of the moms we trust.. aka free the innocent stem cells, aka the mirage remains blurred.. never ends..

next; 'punishment' for fun & profit?

the 'process' (corrupted through our abuse victims tend to abuse hardwiring) should never be more violent than turd flinging & in extreme cases banishment, (which leads to colonization)? do onto.. undone?

then; sprayed on 'weather' more destructive than protective? like fake history of hysteria? not nature's nature?

The real Russian

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no justice until Hillary is "sanctioned" and thrown in her jail for her election meddling with the Russians to create the phony FISA warrant.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

Flynn: no lawyers in his multiple FBI interviews
Hillary!: nine lawyers in her one FBI interview, no notes by FBI allowed

Flynn: failed to register as a foreign agent while he was a private citizen
Hillary!: made millions via Clinton Foundation from Russia while she was Secretary of State approving Uranium One deal.

Flynn: going to jail
Hillary!: Free despite setting up a private email server, almost certainly hacked by multiple foreign intelligence services, and putting classified data on it. Free despite having her uncleared maid handle top secret information. Free despite directing subordinate to remove classification markings and send classified data via her insecure email.

So? Clinton was found innocent. Flynn and the entire Trump administration are criminals. Your point?

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

Flynn: no lawyers in his multiple FBI interviews
Hillary!: nine lawyers in her one FBI interview, no notes by FBI allowed

Flynn: failed to register as a foreign agent while he was a private citizen
Hillary!: made millions via Clinton Foundation from Russia while she was Secretary of State approving Uranium One deal.

Flynn: going to jail
Hillary!: Free despite setting up a private email server, almost certainly hacked by multiple foreign intelligence services, and putting classified data on it. Free despite having her uncleared maid handle top secret information. Free despite directing subordinate to remove classification markings and send classified data via her insecure email.

So? Clinton was found innocent. Flynn and the entire Trump administration are criminals. Your point?

Why did someone so innocent need 9 lawyers and get special treatment?

How gullible can on e get!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Flynn: no lawyers in his multiple FBI interviews
Hillary!: nine lawyers in her one FBI interview, no notes by FBI allowed

Flynn: failed to register as a foreign agent while he was a private citizen
Hillary!: made millions via Clinton Foundation from Russia while she was Secretary of State approving Uranium One deal.

Flynn: going to jail
Hillary!: Free despite setting up a private email server, almost certainly hacked by multiple foreign intelligence services, and putting classified data on it. Free despite having her uncleared maid handle top secret information. Free despite directing subordinate to remove classification markings and send classified data via her insecure email.

ALL those stories were created by the Russians to discredit Clinton to get Trump elected. I cannot believe you're so gullible - but there are millions of people like you in this country and coupled with Republican election rigging, we now have a baboon in the White House who ruined Obama's great economy, got played by the North Koreans like the idiot he is, saddled future generations with debt and environmental ruin, committed treason, made the CFPB worthless, we never got that trillion dollars in infrastructure spending that he promsied ... I'm getting tired of typing - I'd be here all day with Trump's failures.

Re: How gullible can on e get!?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. The final word on north North Korea has yet to be written.
2. The ACA / ObamaCare has also added a hugh amount to US debt before President Trump was in office.
3. The US is doing better than any other EU member lowering pollution and improving the environment without the Paris accords which has no penalties for not meeting the stated goals.

We can go back and forth if you want?

-Geekpoet

Re:How gullible can on e get!?

[Archtech]

...we now have a baboon in the White House...

Well, his enemies called Lincoln a gorilla and the missing link. So far as I know, that puts Lincoln and Trump in a class apart, as the only US presidents every compared to apes or monkeys.

Re:How gullible can on e get!?

[Anonymous Coward]

With the important distinction that one of them was called a gorilla because of his looks, and the other because of his intelligence. There is no need to specify which is which.

Re:How gullible can on e get!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Flynn: no lawyers in his multiple FBI interviews
Hillary!: nine lawyers in her one FBI interview, no notes by FBI allowed

Flynn: failed to register as a foreign agent while he was a private citizen
Hillary!: made millions via Clinton Foundation from Russia while she was Secretary of State approving Uranium One deal.

Flynn: going to jail
Hillary!: Free despite setting up a private email server, almost certainly hacked by multiple foreign intelligence services, and putting classified data on it. Free despite having her uncleared maid handle top secret information. Free despite directing subordinate to remove classification markings and send classified data via her insecure email.

ALL those stories were created by the Russians to discredit Clinton to get Trump elected.

WUT?!?!

Check the date on that NY Times story about Crooked Hillary! profiting from the Uranium One sale to Russian oligarchs - it's from April 2015 .

April 2015, dunderhead.

Jesus H. Mother Fucking Christ, you are stupid.

Calling you dumb as a post would be an insult to every acorn in the forest with dreams of getting buried, sprouting, growing into a tree, getting cut down, hauled to a lumber mill, hewn into a post, and planted as part of a fucking fence.

You utter fucking imbecile.

I cannot believe you're so gullible...

The sad thing is you probably think you're smart.

Astronomers worldwide are lamenting the fact you don't have a twin - the moment you two got too close, the miniature black holes that you think are brains would merge and we'd be able to see gravitational waves up close, probably leading to theories that unify gravity with other forces.

Of course, the concentrated combined stupidity would probably retroactively erase human knowledge back to ancient Greece...

Re: How gullible can on e get!?

[Anonymous Coward]

No need to.

1) Your shitgibbon is going to jail.

I win.

Re: How gullible can on e get!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow spaceman put your tinfoil hat back on. Good lord i thought the usual lefties were wacked out but you take the cake pal

Friendly reminder

[MikeRT]

Those of you still butthurt and crying "da rooskeez" like some 'baccer-chewin hillbilly who never heard about the fall of the Berlin Wall voted for a woman who literally advocated on tape corrupting the Palestinian elections until we got the result we wanted.

Going to bet that if Trump ever woke up and said "fuck it, why the hell not" on declassifying EVERY document of hers from her tenure at State, you'd find a whole lot worse coming from her office in terms of corrupting elections than anything Mueller has on these Russians.

Just like if we ever got the full truth on the weapons and cash-running in Libya (what Benghazi was really about) and how it basically fucked our counter CWMD efforts up the ass for a generation, the investigation would make the Church Committee look like a bunch of back-slapping between buddies for State and the CIA.

Re:Friendly reminder

[Anonymous Coward]

They can have adjacent cells for all I care, why do all you MAGA chuds think that Clinton's wrongdoing means Trump's admin should have a blank check to do whatever crimes they feel like?

Re:Friendly reminder

[drinkypoo]

Going to bet that if Trump ever woke up and said "fuck it, why the hell not" on declassifying EVERY document of hers from her tenure at State, you'd find a whole lot worse coming from her office in terms of corrupting elections than anything Mueller has on these Russians.

I'd take that bet. You can bet that Trump and/or the RNC already has staff looking for such a smoking gun, and one had been found it would have been released already.

Just like if we ever got the full truth on the weapons and cash-running in Libya (what Benghazi was really about) and how it basically fucked our counter CWMD efforts up the ass for a generation, the investigation would make the Church Committee look like a bunch of back-slapping between buddies for State and the CIA.

Selling arms to terrorists, pay for play, and the like are all standard elements of the playbook. Clinton was the status quo candidate, that's not a surprise. But the status quo didn't involve bending over for Russia. Things are so very worse than the status quo now that it still surprises me a little that the Trumpanistas can't see it.

"Meddling"?

[cascadingstylesheet]

Scooby gang: "Mr. Russky???"

Mr. Russky: "Yes, it was me! And it would have worked too, if it weren't for you meddling social media censor kids!!!"

Square jawed policeman: "Good work kids! And where he's going, I don't think his meddling tricks will ever work!"

The targets live in Russia, though, and it's doubtful that they'll travel to countries where the sanctions will hit them. This is more a symbolic gesture than one intended to curb Russian hacks and manipulation attempts.

Square jawed policeman: "Oh .,.. well, never mind then ... maybe they will ... "

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Archtech]

Yes, it's "a nation ruled by laws, not men".

No one ever mentioned women.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

Flynn: no lawyers in his multiple FBI interviews
Hillary!: nine lawyers in her one FBI interview, no notes by FBI allowed

Flynn: failed to register as a foreign agent while he was a private citizen
Hillary!: made millions via Clinton Foundation from Russia while she was Secretary of State approving Uranium One deal.

Flynn: going to jail
Hillary!: Free despite setting up a private email server, almost certainly hacked by multiple foreign intelligence services, and putting classified data on it. Free despite having her uncleared maid handle top secret information. Free despite directing subordinate to remove classification markings and send classified data via her insecure email.

So? Clinton was found innocent. Flynn and the entire Trump administration are criminals. Your point?

Found innocent?

By who?

Comey weasel-worded Hillary!'s "innocence" by claiming she didn't knowingly violate laws regarding the handling of classified data, which is actually irrelevant per the law. Not only that, that's factually false anyway, because Hillary! is known to have directed a subordinate to actually remove classification markings and send a secure fax via nonsecure email.

And why weren't Cohen or Flynn offered immunity prior to their FBI interviews, like Cheryl Mills was?

The list of double standards is endless - Hillary! got away with felonies and her aides got immunity, Trump aides go to jail after being forced to plead guilty to non-crimes. (And no, Trump's payoffs to women are NOT "illegal campaign contributions" - Trump's done those for years, which means by law they're not campaign contributions. Period. Full stop. The more you argue they are, the more you reinforce the fact that Trump's being held to a standard no one else has ever been.)

And unlike you, I have actual factual reporting linked in to back up my claims.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

Irrelevant. "But they did something too" is not a legal defense.

Let's stick to the evidence of crimes now in front of us and stick to prosecuting Trump.

Bad for peace

[Anonymous Coward]

Many people are saying this kind of unfair attack against innocent Russians are what causes instability in the world! Why would USA want to start war with Russia when Russia is USA's strongest ally in the world? Bad idea all around and real Americans like us must oppose this!

Re:Bad for peace

[Archtech]

Russians used to be very friendly towards the USA - especially when they thought it was the land of milk and honey, where streets were paved with gold.

They are still prepared to treat the USA in a friendly way - as far as one can with someone who has tried to poison one and who is known to carry razors up both sleeves and a garrote in his pocket.

Re:Bad for peace

[Anonymous Coward]

You must have missed the aftermath of WW2 and the following Cold War.
Since then most Russians know that nothing good ever comes from the US. And vice versa of course.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't seem to recall her ever going to trial. I do recall prosecutors saying something along the lines of "no jury would convict", which means they chose not to prosecute. That's a world away from being found innocent though. Innocent means "it was brought to trial and the jury did not find enough evidence for guilt". Chose not to prosecute could mean any number of things from "we were afraid of repercussions for prosecuting someone so powerful and well connected" to "we just didn't see a case". Which end of the spectrum this was, we'll never know, but it does leave things open for plenty of theories.

If you ever read the statements though, the FBI used a lot of weasel words. Such as "since she didn't intend to leak the information" despite the accusations were that she broke a law of mishandling classified information, not that she was a traitor, which is what "intending to leak the info" would have legally been. Thus "not intending to leak the info" but leaking it, was basically admission that she broke the law she was accused of breaking. They just chose not to prosecute, because after all, when you get to that level of political influence across the board, they're all more equal than the others.

And by "symbolic gesture", we mean vapid bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully, this pans-out similarly to the last indictment, which the named Russians are now fighting in court and which is exposing further corruption on behalf of Mueller and his merry band of biased buffoons.

Re:THERE WAS ELECTION MEDDLING

[jellomizer]

The average voting American citizen has the equivalent of the 8th grade education. (they may have a higher degree in actuality, but after 8th grade, most students start to diverge and focus on their specialties).

So think about your political knowledge back in 8th grade, you have a general idea on how the US government power is distributed, what the elected officials in general do. But most of your view on politics is based on your Family, friends, church and neighbors.
Myself I grew up near a blue state capital (most of my friends and neighbors where State Employees and very Democrat), but my family is very republican. So I grew up with conflicting messages, probably why I am a moderate today, because I can understand the points made and realize the other side isn't the evil monster as partisans tend to express.

So what did the Russians hackers do that meddled in the elections? Realizing the general naivete of the population, they were able to find what topic they feel strongly about (not overly political), find a group of people with an opposing idea. Befriend both sides and radicalize them, so topics like police shooting unarmed minorities, because they assume they are dangerous because of their looks, becomes political. And they are painted as only caring for the minority and not the general population. While the other side is painted as racist.

So now we have Hillary Clinton who was a public servant vs Donald Trump, who was a boastful personality. Your Russian Friends who are now influencing you and your feelings and pushing your view on topics to the extreme, have now either turned you in a loud mouth radical, or seeing the other side (mainly Clinton) as the enemy.

I heard a lot of Trump Voters who voted for him, not because they liked Trump, but because they were afraid of Clinton, because to them the Clinton Supporters seemed like crazed LiBeRaLs who wanted to bankrupt the country with all their welfare, and because of e-Mails which in the grand scheme of things was just stupid. While Trump with Russian Facebook influence was moderated down, and outraged was calmed, to well he will change after becoming president.

If the Russian Trolls were saying they were Russians pushing a political agenda in America it wouldn't be so bad, as people would take it as such. But they pretend to be peoples friends, and are US Citizens like them. Just to influence the elections and the government.

Progressive = idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

story you should read.

Yep, Clinton paid Steele to get Russian contacts to write up fake info on Trump so she could... challenge a lawful election if she lost. You morons fell for it. The guy who made it all up is literally laughing at how stupid you are.

Hillary Clinton paid for lies, you bought it, and are screaming your head off repeating it. Face it, you don't like democracy and refuse to accept the outcome of an election, something that Clinton had said was "horrible" to think anyone could do it. Yet here you are doing it.

I bet you are so stupid this is the first time you've ever even heard that this Russian collusion thing has been a hoax since they beginning paid by Clinton to challenge an election she lost.

Idiots.

Re: Progressive = idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

And while she plotted to overturn the results was yelling at the top of her lungs about how evil Trump was for not agreeing to immediatley certify the results. Old hat. If you are doing wrong dont deny it... Far better to accuse the other side of doing what your wrongdoing is. Like the rascist dems calling gopers rascist or fascist antifa calling everyone to the right of jane fonda a fascist

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why did someone so innocent need 9 lawyers and get special treatment?

Many people are said that anyone who uses a lawyer should automatically be considered guilty. Imagines if the liberal left let all criminals off hook like did Clinton and Soros! GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!

Re:THERE WAS ELECTION MEDDLING

[drinkypoo]

My family is/was very Republican, too. But they're also assholes. I mean, I haven't kept up with my generation either so I'm not sure what they're like now, but their parents were a bunch of shitlords, and enablers of shitlords. Not all of them were full-fledged assholes in their own right, but all of them made excuses for the assholery of the others so nothing ever had to be fixed or addressed. So I learned a different lesson than you learned.

Leftists may have their heads in the clouds, but they're trying to help. Republicans think they have their feet on the ground, but in reality they are staring at their own feet to make sure they never stumble, and as a result failing to see what is happening around them. It's not that they're bad people, or inherently evil, it's that their actions are evil and you have to make decisions based on people's actions, not their imaginations.

Mark my words.

[rotovator]

This is the begining.

After 16 people were able to reverse the "natural" outcome of the elections of the "greatest democracy in the world", Major powers will change democracy in a way that you can only vote parties previously approved by real powers. No people will be able to create new parties or run for president except for designed ones... just like happens in IRAN, Middle East "democracies", and other repressive countries.

The brainwashing against democracy has begun, once people has realized the false statements of previous politicians.

In some years people will riot against democracy (which has never been thanks to the successful media brainwashing up to now)

Re:Mark my words.

[LynnwoodRooster]

That's how it is in Communist China. They have elections - you just have to be a member of the Party, and there is only one candidate on the ballot who's approved by the CPC and thus who will win.

Re:Mark my words.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, they can create their own parties. And they can also run for president. They just won't win any elections because everyone who really has a chance of being popular will be convicted of something and subsequently locked away in prison.

That is Russian democracy for you. And the whole "lock her up" thing should be a red flag for the same thing starting to happen in the US.
Fortunately one single party does not have the power to see these things to their end, yet. For the sake of the future let's hope that it will stay that way at least a little bit longer and also that Trump will stay a free man as well.

Re:THERE WAS ELECTION MEDDLING

[Anonymous Coward]

Leftists may have their heads in the clouds, but they're trying to help.

Pelosi said she is going to take away the only significant tax cut I've had in my life.
Kate Stynle was killed by an illegal felon using a firearm, they did not convict him and still refuse to protect US citizens by their sanctuary cities and refusing to protect the border.
They are unwilling to accept the outcome of a lawful election that got Trump into the White House
They are attempting to pass an amendment to overturn free speech because of Citizens United case.
Obama shipped thousands of firearms to Mexico killing hundreds there in an attempt to make a narrative that US guns are killing Mexicans.
Obama used the IRS to silence political opposition during an election.
Obama illegally used FISA (for terrorists) warrants to spy on a political campaign during an election

This is "trying to help". Sounds like you are the asshole, not your family.

Re:THERE WAS ELECTION MEDDLING

[drinkypoo]

Pelosi said she is going to take away the only significant tax cut I've had in my life.

Either that tax cut is temporary for you and will be followed by worse taxation, or you make enough money to where you don't really need a tax cut.

Kate Stynle was killed by an illegal felon using a firearm, they did not convict him

So I read up, and while that's a very sad story, you're blaming that whole incident on a party who may well have been telling the gospel truth in his defense. Meanwhile, you're not placing any blame on the BLM Ranger who illegally left the weapon unsecured in his vehicle while he went to dinner with his family. And the man who pulled the trigger could not reasonably have been trying to kill the woman, since the bullet ricocheted before striking her. If it hadn't been him, it could as easily have been someone else.

and still refuse to protect US citizens by their sanctuary cities and refusing to protect the border.

California is not refusing to protect the border. First of all, that's not California's job, the border is federal. Second, sanctuary cities are only necessary because of the way the feds wield deportation power, which is to say highly selectively and for political purposes, not for national security.

They are unwilling to accept the outcome of a lawful election that got Trump into the White House

Who told you that? They're a liar, and you're an idiot. No one is challenging the outcome of the election. Although, since you mention it, there have been multiple signs of every kind of election meddling on the part of the Republicans. Vote fraud, voter fraud, Russian collusion... It's like they went down a list of possibles.

They are attempting to pass an amendment to overturn free speech because of Citizens United case.

Citizens United was about permitting corporations to interfere with elections, not about permitting free speech. People have free speech, corporations are legal fictions which exist only on paper and they have no rights except those which we give them with law.

Obama shipped thousands of firearms to Mexico killing hundreds there in an attempt to make a narrative that US guns are killing Mexicans.

That was shit. But who is Trump sending arms to? Nations which murder Journalists. Not just Israel, which has bipartisan support, but also the Saudis. Like the Bushes before him...

Obama used the IRS to silence political opposition during an election.

lol

In January 2014, James Comey, who at the time was the FBI director, told Fox News that its investigation had found no evidence so far warranting the filing of federal criminal charges in connection with the controversy, as it had not found any evidence of "enemy hunting", and that the investigation continued. On October 23, 2015, the Justice Department declared that no criminal charges would be filed. On September 8, 2017, the Trump Justice Department declined to reopen the criminal investigation into Lois Lerner, a central figure in the controversy.[1]
In late September 2017, an exhaustive report by the Treasury Department's inspector general found that from 2004 to 2013, the IRS used both conservative and liberal keywords to choose targets for further scrutiny.[2][3]

Both conservative and liberal keywords, like you would do if you were looking for organizations with political purposes, which had not correctly registered themselves as such, but regardless of party.

Obama illegally used FISA (for terrorists) warrants to spy on a political campaign during an election

Nah, that one is 100% bullshit too. That shit was covered extensively.

This is "trying to help". Sounds like you are the asshole, not your family.

Too bad all of your examples are bullshit. Bullshit like that is typical religious reich "trying to help". Help themselves.

Drinkypoo IS A LIAR

[Anonymous Coward]

Story where IRS admitted wrongdoing IN COURT.

You used a lot of hand waving to make your points, including quoting the corrupt Comey. You know its all bullshit and I provided the easiest example of it. You know you lie and I just called you out for it.

Drinkypoo IS A LIAR. He thinks removing your rights, or even killing you to support a narrative to remove rights from people he doesn't like is acceptable. Do not listen to him, he is evil.

Re:Drinkypoo IS A LIAR

[drinkypoo]

Story where IRS admitted wrongdoing IN COURT.

Too bad you didn't read the part that said "Republicans claimed the targeting of conservative groups showed political bias in the IRS under former Democratic President Barack Obama. House Republican investigators found no connection to the Obama administration, according to a 2014 report." That's right, even the Republicans couldn't find any evidence of their claims that the IRS' actions were politically motivated. Thanks for proving that you can't read, it makes it a lot easier for people to assume that you are an idiot.

Re:Drinkypoo IS A LIAR

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right, IRS oppresses people and Drinkypoo says it is OK because it wasn't tied to Obama.
Hell, even the 200+ Mexicans (and a US border agent) killed by Fast and Furious to create a narrative to push gun control are ok because that wasn't tied directly to Obama.
In fact, you can do anything to anyone illegally as long as it isn't tied to Obama, and Drinkypoo will support it!

Is this for real? Am I actually reading that you support oppression of citizens because it can't be proven Obama ordered it?

This is "the left trying to help" Killing Mexicans, oppressing citizens, and abusing FISA warrants, as long as it can't be proven Obama ordered it, it is ok by leftists.
This is the level of stupidity you run into when you try and debate them.

sanctions

[Anonymous Coward]

US treasury sanctions Russians with all the bite of a new born baby.

better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Sanction all the


O tot O `NON . NIMBI on NIMBI . CYNICAL `KRONOR on NIMBI .
YD on O . O . O tot O `O tot O `O us are O tot O `O tot O `
O O . O . O . O us are O us are O us are O tot O `O us are
O `O `O . O . O `NEAP `O `NEAP `NIMBI on KRONOR on NIMBI .
O . O O . O . O tot O `O tot O `O us are O . O us are . O `
O on YD . O . O tot O `O tot O `O us are O on O . O tot O `
O tot O `NON . NIMBI on NIMBI . CYNICAL `O tot O . NIMBI .

buuuullllshiiiiit

[Anonymous Coward]

seen the meddling? laughable trolling.

party

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't they confiscate the property of their american co-conspirator? You know the guy I mean.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[pgmrdlm]

Cunts like you are still blaming Bush. Shut the fuck up pussy. You lost, you will lose again. And if this nation is lucky. You will be dead soon.

Re:THERE WAS ELECTION MEDDLING

[LynnwoodRooster]

A few things you need to learn...

Citizens United v FEC was to keep "the government from restricting independent expenditures for communications by nonprofit corporations, for-profit corporations, labor unions, and other associations". Not just corporations. But your selective choice of words speaks volumes...

President Obama topped the list of Saudi arms offers, more than any other Administration. Yet you conveniently left him out of your list, skipping from Trump to Bush - why?

California is suing the Federal Government about the border - specifically about their right to control their border, rather than the Federal Government. This is contrary to what you state.

The IRS apologized for targeting conservative groups, because it did. Yes, there were some non-conservative groups targeted, but they were overwhelmingly conservative.

Shall we continue?

Symbolic

[nospam007]

The Gov should create an AI that trolls those people online mercilessly.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[LynnwoodRooster]

So? Clinton was found innocent.

No, she wasn't. She's never been tried because Comey claimed that her blatant breaking of the law was just a "stupid move" and thus he went above and beyond his own authority and said she shouldn't be tried. That's not the job of the FBI - that's the job of the prosecutors.

Re:THERE WAS ELECTION MEDDLING

[cyberchondriac]

They are unwilling to accept the outcome of a lawful election that got Trump into the White House

Who told you that? They're a liar, and you're an idiot. No one is challenging the outcome of the election. Although, since you mention it, there have been multiple signs of every kind of election meddling on the part of the Republicans. Vote fraud, voter fraud, Russian collusion... It's like they went down a list of possibles.

Too bad all of your examples are bullshit. Bullshit like that is typical religious reich "trying to help". Help themselves.

What do you call the "Resist" movement then?
"Not my president!" ; "Impeach Trump!" (on what grounds??) "He lost the popular vote, he shouldn't have won!"
You Leftists have absolutely denied the legitimate outcome of the election, from wanting to scuttle the electoral college itself to working feverishly with the baseless "Russian Collusion" story that Clinton, FusionGPS, and her cronies cooked up to de-legitimatize the election results.
All Mueller has really found indicates that some Russians paid for some ads and that Flynn and Manafort lied about things they either didn't need to or didn't have a bearing on or relation to the election itself, despite some ridiculous amounts of exaggeration from media pundits.

Voter "fraud" is much heavier on the Democrat side, with videos surfacing of people proudly claiming to vote multiple times under pseudonames, of dead people still conveniently registered to vote, but most of all, the bullshit excuses and refusal to allow VoterID laws that would actually reduce voter fraud drastically. If you were really against voter fraud, you'd require ID. It's NOT too expensive for people to get, anyone who's already registered to vote already has some form of ID on them; those that aren't either don't care to vote, or can easily get an ID when they register.

This ought to be interesting in 2020

[Solandri]

Any non-American posting anything on social media visible in the U.S. for/against any candidate in the 2020 Presidential election can now be told, "please delete your post or you could be accused of election meddling, and face sanctions prohibiting Americans from conducting any transactions with you in the future."

I agree with the principle that people who can't vote in an election shouldn't be allowed to influence it. But I simply don't think that's a goal that's realistically achievable without completly breaking other freedoms of social interaction.

Re:This ought to be interesting in 2020

[Anonymous Coward]

The people pushing this narrative just want to win. If they break freedoms of social interaction then that's just an added bonus, as it just makes maintaining the narrative easier.

See social media purges and witch hunts happening meanwhile.

Re:This ought to be interesting in 2020

[Anonymous Coward]

Any non-American posting anything on social media visible in the U.S. for/against any candidate in the 2020 Presidential election can now be told, "please delete your post or you could be accused of election meddling, and face sanctions prohibiting Americans from conducting any transactions with you in the future."

I agree with the principle that people who can't vote in an election shouldn't be allowed to influence it. But I simply don't think that's a goal that's realistically achievable without completly breaking other freedoms of social interaction.

Barring foreigners from commenting on elections in a country is of course silly and pointless [1], but barring organized false-flag comment campaigns seems very reasonable to me. We call this shilling, and it is frowned upon in all social media.

[1] I must assume the same principles apply if the country is the USA or any other country.

Re:This ought to be interesting in 2020

[Anonymous Coward]

The people pushing this narrative just want to win. If they break freedoms of social interaction then that's just an added bonus, as it just makes maintaining the narrative easier.

See social media purges and witch hunts happening meanwhile.

Oh boohooh! Another loser who can't admit that he has been conned into voting for a corrupt fraud and liar.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

Your link didn't mention how Cheryl Mills DESTROYED EVIDENCE and still received immunity. Comey is so deliberately dense he couldn't 'find evidence' that she did this in order to obstruct the investigation, other than that the evidence was purposefully destroyed.

Nor does it mention Bryan Pagliano, and how he was given immunity - only to not bother to appear before congressional summons, and how dems worked in unison to not even find him in contempt.

The so called Trump collusion investigation, and Comey's handling of the "matter", is the contrast between upholding the strictest letter of the law, and being controlled opposition. It's a sick joke for anyone paying attention.

American Disinformation vs. Russian Disinformation

[Anonymous Coward]

The disinformation produced by Russians does not exceed the disinformation produced by Americans.

Consider the topic of preferential treatment for Hispanics.

Preferential treatment includes affirmative action (AA). It is gross discrimination against Americans of European or Asian ancestry.

The elites in the mainstream media claim that AA does not discriminate against Europeans and Asians. Yet, the statistical data clearly shows that, due to AA, an Asian (or European) must score roughly 300 points higher than a Hispanic, on the Scholastic Aptitude Test, in order for the admissions committee (of Princeton University) to give the Asian (or European) equal consideration with the Hispanic.

Most Americans of Asian ancestry are aware of this disinformation produced by the elites in the media. Most Americans of Asian ancestry condemn this disinformation.

"'[Affirmative action] offends me,' [Yukong] Zhao continued, telling me he believes Chinese-Americans have faced far more discrimination than Latinos. 'Why [do] Hispanics ... get higher preference than Chinese-Americans, or Japanese-Americans?'" (Zhao was interviewed for a report published by BuzzFeed News.)

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do the Democrats control slashdot too?

Re: So let's apply the same legal standards to Hil

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not irrelevant in the least. Legal standards are just that standard else we are talking avout selective prosecution. Not to mention our entire legal system works on precedent which is literally legal results based on what someone else did. By any objective measure hillary and obama did not recieve anything close to parity re legal actions againsy Trump et al. Not the same ballpark not even the same planet. So yeah try again.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Can'tNot]

She's never been tried because actually putting her on trial would defeat the purpose of calling her a criminal. The GOP can keep talking about how evil she is forever, if they never have to prove it. And you will always believe them.

What a fucking WEAK "leader"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, if you want to watch your one-term, Busch-league president tank Obama's economic recovery, that certainly is your prerogative. The Trump-recession is coming soon to an economy near you.

He's getting desperate for a political win, isn't he? Chuck and Nancy fucking pwned!! him. He's not getting his fucking wall. Even that cunt, Ann Coulter, is calling him weak.

Now he wants to go against his advisors and pull our troops out of Syria, in a desperate attempt to fulfill that campaign promise? We defeated ISIS? "Mission accomplished!!", eh? Isn't that the second time he declared "Mission accomplished!!" in regard to Syria? Just like he declared "Mission accomplished!!" with North Korea's denuclearization? Surely he's gonna get a Nobel Prize for that. Come to think of it, Obama got one of those, didn't he?. The truth is, Trump cried about Obama crating a power vacuum, and he's about to do the same thing by pulling out of Syria. He'll be handing a political win to Russia, Syria and Iran, and hand over total control of the region to them. If that's what you call wisdom, you can have it. He's so interested in promoting his own image, he clearly doesn't give a shit about the U.S. at all. He sure played his supporters for suckers with all that faux-patriotism.

No wonder Putin was so eager to help get him elected. Putin couldn't have a strong leader in the White House. He needed somebody weak, like Trump. He saw Trump's ego and massaged it, to get him to run for President. Putin was well aware of Trump's "win at ALL COST" attitude. He played him like a fucking violin. But hey, you are the ones who claimed you wanted to blow up Washington. Hope you're happy.

It's obvious you meant to say, "salt the earth" types.

P.S. - I wonder when Melania's contract runs out, so she can finally divorce that fucking orangutan. I can't wait to see him and his whole family in jail - especially that creepy, hairy son of his, his feckless cunt of a daughter AND her effeminate husband.

P.P.S. - Appropriate CAPTCHA: amateurs

American Disinformation vs. Russian Disinformation

[Anonymous Coward]

The disinformation produced by Russians does not exceed the disinformation produced by Americans.

Consider the topic of preferential treatment for Hispanics.

Preferential treatment includes affirmative action (AA). It is gross discrimination against Americans of European or Asian ancestry.

The elites in the mainstream media claim that AA does not discriminate against Europeans and Asians. Yet, the statistical data clearly shows that, due to AA, an Asian (or European) must score roughly 300 points higher than a Hispanic, on the Scholastic Aptitude Test, in order for the admissions committee (of Princeton University) to give the Asian (or European) equal consideration with the Hispanic.

Most Americans of Asian ancestry are aware of this disinformation produced by the elites in the media. Most Americans of Asian ancestry condemn this disinformation.

"'[Affirmative action] offends me,' [Yukong] Zhao continued, telling me he believes Chinese-Americans have faced far more discrimination than Latinos. 'Why [do] Hispanics ... get higher preference than Chinese-Americans, or Japanese-Americans?'" (Zhao was interviewed for a report published by BuzzFeed News.)

Re: So let's apply the same legal standards to Hil

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

You are correct. A good chunk of the Constitution revolves around stopping the powerful from siccing the power of government onto their opponents.

Since we're loving "But they did it!" arguments, the Republicans dragged on the Whitewater investigation to try to ultimately remove Clinton for a "process crime", that they cry is unfair now. Luckily, they didn't remove him for something unrelated to the original investigation. I.e. didn't successfully use the final step to "get" their political enemy, the real motivation.

And for a stupid reason of infidelity, said reason now also being misused on Trump, but just desserts for Republicans.

Nobody will learn from this because nobody did learn from it last time.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[LynnwoodRooster]

No, she wasn't put on trial because there is one set of rules for you and me, and another set for the powers that be...

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Can'tNot]

Who makes those rules? In this case, it's Trump. Dropping the Clinton investigation was the very first campaign promise that Trump broke, before he was even inaugurated.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[LynnwoodRooster]

The President doesn't prosecute cases; the Department of Justice does. It's hardly going to countermand one of its leaders (the Director of the FBI) now, is it? We'll see what happens in the future with a more independent Attorney General.

Re:So let's apply the same legal standards to Hill

[Can'tNot]

... What? Appointing a special prosecutor, which is the promise he made, certainly is something that the president can do. Here, I'll quote:

Mr. Trump, who branded his rival “Crooked Hillary” and said she would go to jail if he were president, said in an interview with reporters and editors at The New York Times that he was no longer interested in pursuing Mrs. Clinton

This was in November of 2016, just after he won. I don't know how that could be more clear.

Also, what do you mean by "more independent attorney general"? I haven't been following that closely, but I had thought the nominee was just one of his lackeys. In other words, totally dependent. Is that guy out?