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Climate Change Drives Fish Into New Waters, Remaking an Industry (wsj.com)

The catch is shifting northward as water temperatures rise, forcing crews to retool their boats and rework their businesses. From a report: Aboard the Stanley K and the Oracle, two 58-foot vessels, Buck Laukitis and his crews chase halibut across the Bering Sea worth $5 a pound at the docks. As sea temperatures rise, and Arctic ice retreats the fish appear to be avoiding warming waters, migrating northward where they cost more to reach, federal fisheries biologists say. Twice this past fall, the Oracle sailed 800 miles north from the seaport of Dutch Harbor in the Aleutian Islands, before finding the halibut that a decade ago lived several hundred miles closer to home. Each voyage took twice as long and yielded half as many fish. "It keeps me up at night," he says. "I woke up at three in the morning. I couldn't sleep thinking about where the fish are going."

Across the continent from Mr. Laukitis in Rhode Island, black sea bass have moved in with the warming waters. The bulk once lived roughly 700 miles south off North Carolina. Now they are a staple catch in Point Judith, R.I., along with the summer flounder that also have begun appearing. [...] The impact of climate change has a price, and for fishing-boat owners in sea ports, that means following the catch. The northward movement of fish around the world is disrupting some fishing grounds and revitalizing others -- and fishing businesses are trying to adapt their operations.

The impact of temperature on oceans is varied. As the atmosphere warmed in recent decades, oceans absorbed heat unevenly, causing marine hot spots that can last months, scientists say. Spikes of warmer water affect fisheries differently depending on ocean currents, ocean depth and seafloor topography. Higher temperatures mean less dissolved oxygen in the water while increasing a fish's demand for oxygen by speeding up its metabolism. Warming water may also favor predators or drive off species on which commercial fish feed. All told, warming ocean temperatures are pushing hundreds of marine species outside of their traditional ranges, ocean scientists say.

87 comments

  1. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    The oceans are massive and vast and deep beyond comprehension. There is absolutley nothing humans can do to change its temperature. What cookie cutter group think to believe that we humans can warm the ocean. But y'all get a red star on you forehead from the commissar of propaganda for being good little young pioneers.

    1. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit.

      It's not.

    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Most of humanity isn't as worthless as you are, and they can achieve a great many things beyond your meager comprehension.

      Certainly a bathtub is beyond your small minds ability to comprehend but you yourself could befoul the waters of one should you use a bathtub for it's intended purpose...

      Just because you are an idiot with limited comprehension doesn't mean humanity is incapable of doing something far greater than your little mind can understand.

    3. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You an Internet Research Agency Avtomat? Good avtomat.

    4. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot about churches and similar stone and brick buildings. Those are also religious-y

    5. Re:Bullshit by gtall · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah, spoken like a true preacher, say the one of a Church in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay whose island is disappearing. Said the holy man of the cloth, I paraphrase, the world is such a magnificent creation of G-d that man cannot affect it.

      Kind of hard to argue with the fish. They cannot speak but they do vote.

    6. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Who said it couldn't be explained?
      But who wants to try to explain something to some one who pronounces that oceans are beyond compression?

      If I'm going to waste my time explaining something more complex than a big body of water to some one, It's not going to be some one who starts out with "I can't comprehend a big body of water."

      It's a loosing battle to try to explain something to some one who has decided they are an idiot and would like to remain that way.

    7. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you are going to call others an idiot you should at least spellcheck before posting.
        And no it was not a typo.

    8. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem not to understand where the tasty fish live.

    9. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Giant shippers from Chiners pump crap gas into the ocean. What are you doing personally to stop it?
      Still buying cheap Chinese crap?

    10. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I stopped buying vodka in protest of boring russian troll posts. I'd stop buying other famous russian products too, but there aren't any. Caviar from there is fake, and nauseating as a concept anyway.

  2. Adaptation to Change - What a concept! by rogerz · · Score: 0

    "The northward movement of fish around the world is disrupting some fishing grounds and revitalizing others -- and fishing businesses are trying to adapt their operations. "

    Sometime change costs some people money (and risk), and sometimes the exact same change reduces peoples' costs (and risks). Imagine that. The human mind is capable of reasoning about and understanding patterns that will allow us to adjust to changes in our environment. Perhaps we're not all going to die (at least all at once).

    --
    If humans are mostly water, and beer is mostly water, then humans must be mostly beer.
    1. Re:Adaptation to Change - What a concept! by gtall · · Score: 1, Informative

      I see you do not live on one of the islands of the Pacific Ocean that is going bye-bye from higher oceans. Gee, sometimes change costs some people money....like their entire nation.

    2. Re:Adaptation to Change - What a concept! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes change saves a fish species from over fishing.

    3. Re:Adaptation to Change - What a concept! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0, Troll

      Which islands are the ones going bye bye? Real, rock-based islands, not sand jetties off the Carolina coasts...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:Adaptation to Change - What a concept! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trotsky-slut warmists are going to die off. All at once. They will migrate north, to the icy-blue waters of Santa Barbara where falling avocados and Manhattens will prove deadly.

    5. Re:Adaptation to Change - What a concept! by Joce640k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The northward movement of fish around the world is disrupting some fishing grounds and revitalizing others -- and fishing businesses are trying to adapt their operations. "

      Sometime change costs some people money (and risk), and sometimes the exact same change reduces peoples' costs (and risks). Imagine that. The human mind is capable of reasoning about and understanding patterns that will allow us to adjust to changes in our environment. Perhaps we're not all going to die (at least all at once).

      ...unless you live in the Pacific and fish are a staple part of your diet.

      In which case you starve to death.

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:Adaptation to Change - What a concept! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trotsky-slut warmists

      It's no coincidence that Bolsheviks (the only ones really bothered by Trotskyists) and the Republican party share (amongst other things) the color RED.

  3. What fish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Over fishing is a huge problem, bigger so than climate change. Its something for the UN to sink their teeth into where they can really make a difference.

    1. Re:What fish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Over fishing is definitely a huge problem, especially over fishing of Slashdot by creimer.

    2. Re:What fish? by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have very little knowledge about the fishing industry (which is odd since much of my salary is provided by it) but I'm curious.

      The article makes a big deal about how climate has effected the fishing industry. I'm a huge lover of old books and have read pretty much everything I could get my hands on from the past 5000 years of writing. I recall stories dating back to the ancient Egyptians regarding the how a major part of their version of modern politics was centered around the inundation of the Nile. And in recent times, we know that it's very important for dead fish to be left on the shores of the Nile to fertilize crops.

      It seems to me that I can think of books and historical references from nearly every era of human history that would tell stories of fishermen chasing fish because the fishing grounds constantly changed.

      That said, I live in Norway now which depends almost as much on fish as on oil money. A massive portion of the country's income is spent on fish breeding and while Norway is still a whaling country, they apparently are believed to be one of the top contributors to repopulating the whales of the world. I know very little about the details and I have no idea how accurate my understanding of this topic is. I believe most of what I know is hearsay.

      That said, I wonder if anyone here on Slashdot is knowledgeable about the fishing industry and could answer some questions.

      1) Are the migratory issues normal? In other words, did the fish always move similar to this? Is the problem because companies aren't "fishing companies" but instead "halibut companies"? Instead of changing to a different fish as might have happened 500 years ago, the companies are chasing specific types of fish now because they have the means to?

      2) Is the fish population genuinely less or could it be that fish are adapting to a more hostile environment and swimming further from the surface as a matter of survival?

      3) Is this an issue of genuine migration? The blurb makes a point that not only are the fish further north, but there are less of them? Could it be that these fish were probably always there but the southern populations have been so over-fished that there simply aren't enough left to make it profitable?

      4) Could the population have migrated elsewhere and we simply haven't found them yet? I imagine we don't have submarines zooming all over the Atlantic looking for halibut.

      5) Is it even possible to farm fish instead? In other words, here in Norway, much of our salmon comes from farms instead of free range. Is it possible for the industry to adapt for other fish?

    3. Re:What fish? by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      Given that massive changes in animal/fish migration are already very observable, it's highly likely the fish are moving due to temperature increases. The Inuit in North America had no word for Robin...because they'd never seen one before but now they are.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  4. Maine is seeing this too by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    with the lobster industry. One of the frustrating (or amusing if I'm feeling mean) things is watching several "red" states (e.g. they vote GOP, the party currently calling Climate Change a hoax) clearly impacted. Florida had a huge problem with red tide this year. If it keeps getting worse it'll kill their tourist industry. Meanwhile the SEC filings, where mega corps aren't allowed to lie, are chock full of lines about the negative impacts of climate change.

    I'm not necessarily blaming the rank and file though. Most of the Dems don't really have a solution besides "consume less", which would be great if a) the vast majority of pollution was from consumers and not the companies they buy from and b) folks weren't living paycheck to paycheck so on edge they're terrified of any change. A few lefties like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have suggested a "Green New Deal" to address this, but the Clinton Democrats (the right wing of the party) don't want to tax their wealthy donors to pay for it all.

    So the result is this, we're all going to hell in a handbasket and just pretending it's not happening.

    --
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    1. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I live in Florida in the Midst of the Red Tide Area of Sarasota.... The issue with Red Tide IS NOT a climate issue. Its Phosphorus miners dumping MASSIVE AMOUNTS of Phosphorus waste into the Rivers and Channels that lead to the bay. The Overabundance of their favorite food, PHOSPHORUS, makes the red algae reproduce and grow out of control. Choking the local flora and fauna out, as well as causing noxious fumes from their death on the shores, making being at the beach difficult, as it stings to breathe. The Red Tide, has ZERO to do with "Climate Change" Not to say that there are not other good examples where climate change IS the cause, this just isn't one of them.

    2. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not necessarily blaming the rank and file though. Most of the Dems don't really have a solution besides "consume less", which would be great if a) the vast majority of pollution was from consumers and not the companies they buy from

      How does this not lead to the companies polluting less?

      You think they will keep producing even if people doesn't buy their stuff?

    3. Re:Maine is seeing this too by gtall · · Score: 5, Informative

      And yet Florida rewards the governor who refuse to check the miners with a Senate seat. Florida deserves this.

    4. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 0

      The fact that you believe an ENTIRE state of people should suffer, as well as vacationers from ALL OVER THE NATION, just because of the bad choices of greedy politicians, makes you a terrible human being. Not everyone here is a political extremist of EITHER side. Some of us are just organic farmers, going where the soil and sun grow best...

    5. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm generally critical of democrats as well, but they did do that whole push for solar and wind development that's currently driving the cost of renewables below fossil fuels.

    6. Re:Maine is seeing this too by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 0

      Most of the Dems don't really have a solution besides "consume less", which would be great if a) the vast majority of pollution was from consumers and not the companies they buy from

      Careful, now... this is vying with your long-lived (and never documented) canard about broadband costing ISPs $9/month for the dubious honor of being one of the dumbest things you've ever said. In the real world the rest of us live in, companies don't keep steadfastly churning out the same volume of products regardless of long-term demand.

    7. Re:Maine is seeing this too by andydread · · Score: 4, Informative

      Elections have consequences. If the people chose to vote for people that will do this to them then that is their choice. If the people who live in Fla fail to go out and vote for the people that wants to do something about this rather than the people who calls it a hoax and refuse to deal with the miners then that is their choice. In all circumstances it's the people's choice. Bottom line people vote or refuse to vote and they get what they get.

    8. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 2

      Unless you just happened to move here recently for the soil and sun... As a farmer would. Not everyone is "Responsible" for the choices of politicians. Florida is a LARGE vacation state. Many of the people here, are NOT from here, do NOT live here, and cannot VOTE here. YEt are STILL subject to the whims of politicians we may not agree with. Just sayin.

    9. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, that's just uh, your opinion, man.

      Elections have consequences. the governor wasn't voted in by vacationers from all over the nation. the governor was voted in by people of the state. Let them deal with it, or move their business and 'go where the $ITEM $YIELDS best'.

    10. Re:Maine is seeing this too by andydread · · Score: 1

      obviously i was talking about eligible Florida residents/voters. What it comes down to is us voters. we decide who the politicians in power are. If we decide that it's ok for miners to pollute and cause red tides that affects the tourism of the state then it is we the residents/voters that decide to put these people in power to allow the miners to keep dumping sulphur and causing red tides or what ever it may be. Some people may even be fine with the pollution driving away tourism. Less tourism == less foreigners

    11. Re: Maine is seeing this too by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

      Well frankly the Democrats weren't pro Trump enough which is my important than killing off the gulf of Mexico. Both Republican candidates had red hats and warned of scary liberals.

      So the population spoke which is made up of white rednecks

    12. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree that certain politicians and the people who vote for them are responsible for these mining companies still doing business as usual and inundating us all with the red tide. To this very day. But there are people coming to enjoy this place from all over the world, that don't get a say in what goes on here. Or, people like myself, who NEED the sun/soil this place provides and moved here when these persons were already "Installed". The Federal government could EASILY come in here with the EPA and get business done. Shutting down this mass phosphorus dumping into a Critical Natural Resource for Florida. But the Federal government is basically a turd at the moment with the events taking place on cap-hill. The industry/people here are suffering from the actions of only a few. Please just don't condemn the Organic farmers, Vacationers, New Arrivals, Environmentalists, Young people, and others here who did not put those persons into power, and had no ability to effect that change until now. Times are changing. Some of us here in Florida want to see it sunny and beautiful and abundant again asap. Just sayin. As an Organic Grower, Permaculturist, Aquaculturist, I Rely on the environment for my livelihood. Being a Solar/Off Grid Farm, I also rely on the abundance of sunlight Florida offers. Some of us have no choice but to move to places still infected by the swamp. Change takes time.

    13. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Freischutz · · Score: 2

      Elections have consequences. If the people chose to vote for people that will do this to them then that is their choice. If the people who live in Fla fail to go out and vote for the people that wants to do something about this rather than the people who calls it a hoax and refuse to deal with the miners then that is their choice. In all circumstances it's the people's choice. Bottom line people vote or refuse to vote and they get what they get.

      ...they get what they ask for.

    14. Re:Maine is seeing this too by andydread · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the people in power in Fla are fighting tooth and nail to make it as difficult and cumbersome as possible for Floridians to get solar power with the amendment 1 fiasco which i'm sure you're aware of.

    15. Re:Maine is seeing this too by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      In all circumstances it's the people's choice. Bottom line people vote or refuse to vote and they get what they get.

      You don't seme to realise this is Florida we're talking about. 10% of the adult population are (were? did they fix it this time round?) denied the right to vote. You can hardly blame people for the outcome when bullshit laws prevent them from affecting it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    16. Re: Maine is seeing this too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That's not driving the cost below fossils, dumbass, it's forcing people to pay more to buy renewables first

    17. Re:Maine is seeing this too by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Change takes time.

      Yeah, so it does... That doesn't lessen the voters' responsibility for the people they reelect. This is on their shoulders. Any complaints from the outside (tourists) or the inside (locals) should be directed at them. Nobody forces them to vote for bling.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    18. Re:Maine is seeing this too by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I live in Florida in the Midst of the Red Tide Area of Sarasota.... The issue with Red Tide IS NOT a climate issue. Its Phosphorus miners dumping MASSIVE AMOUNTS of Phosphorus waste into the Rivers and Channels that lead to the bay

      But why not blame it on climate change if it will get people and governments to act?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    19. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Bartles · · Score: 0

      What right to vote?

    20. Re:Maine is seeing this too by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is the same issue with the Great Barrier Reef; our farmers here are dumping massive amounts of phosphorus runoff which is negatively affecting the reef. In tests where this runoff has been abated, the Reef has bounced back with surprising resilience.

      Again, ZERO to do with climate change. Everything to do with farmers, and in most cased industrialized farming.

      --
      -Styopa
    21. Re:Maine is seeing this too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep ... we reward the RepubliFat Gub'nor who beat a Trotsky-slut DemoRat teachers union pimp. Florida got plenty from Scott ... and will get more. Open season on Antifa hoes, just like Florida has open-season on fat-azz Haitian buffalo thundering across the panhandle & border-jumping croc-eating pythons. SOC ... suck our crocs ... er SAVE OUR CROCS cause we need 'em to eat warmist ( young/tender/glaring-white ) NYC visitors.

    22. Re:Maine is seeing this too by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1, Informative

      A bit of an oversimplification maybe?

      I used to have the misfortune of living in the minimum wage state for 6 of the worst years of my life.

      First, let's start by saying that "Sun and fun" and "I don't have to shovel rain" are not good enough reasons to move to the state of apathy known as Florida. Florida has endless problems and not least among them is "We really don't care about anything so long as it doesn't make us actually work or learn.". Additionally, Florida is crippled by a population who votes almost entirely with short-term goals since fixing things takes time and if you ask the average voter "Don't you care about your grand children's futures?" and they'll generally respond "Of course I do... but they live in Michigan"

      Red Tide is a problem all around the world. The Florida red tide is of course exacerbated by opportunists. Of course, Florida depends on opportunism to survive... I hate visiting my parents because every time I do, it seems what few legitimate businesses were left in Florida are replaced by "Check cashing" and "Payday loan" places.

      It's absolutely amazing that other than in the Hispanic areas of Miami, the entire state of Florida is in a cultural constant state of decaying.

      But yeh... Tampa and the surrounding areas are an absolute shit-hole. It operates on the golden principal of "Anything for a buck" and the phosphorus problem has only gotten worse over time. And so long as there are actual jobs related to it and most of those jobs are rednecks who actually do vote as opposed to young middle class families (I don't care about the party they belong to), there will be nothing done to fix the dumping problem. It will only get worse until it's so bad that it can't be ignored.

    23. Re:Maine is seeing this too by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      spot on.
      GOP are causing this, but the GD Dems have NOTHING original amongst the lot of them.
      It is so easy to solve things like Cimate change, red tide, even our deficits, but both parties are composed of gutless wonders.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    24. Re:Maine is seeing this too by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Somewhat, wrong.
      You are correct that the PRIMARY cause of red tide is the extra nitrates, Phosphorus, and Fe that enables the red tide microorganisms to thrive. However, normally, there is fast tidal movement that sweeps through the gulf and moves the PO4, nitrates, and Fe out of the gulf and up along the American eastern coastline, which as you know, runs up to Europe and warms them. Issue is, that with AGW, and in particular, Greenland's massive ice melt, it is actually slowing down the movement. This is now being tracked. By slowing down, it allows the pollution to move slow and give the microorgs time to grow. Oddly, there is actually LESS pollution being dumped down the miss, then there used to be. But with the slowing down, it is simply allowing the pollution to hang around and do its thing.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  5. still waiting for that cold day in hell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    could this be it? never a better time/reason to consider ourselves in relation to one another, our surroundings, & our endless creative spirit? cease fire stand down.. in the moms (our earth bound creators) we trust.. the give away more than we keep light is still on.. better days ahead for sure.. see you there

    next; does greed & fear based hoarding shorten our lives? plus, the ups & downs of oathing ourselves/others...

  6. OTOH by nospam007 · · Score: 0

    The restaurants now can buy local black sea bass instead of having it cooled and sent by truck for 700 miles which is good for the climate.

    1. Re:OTOH by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      aahh but then they'll have to drive 700 miles back to the restaurants where it was local before

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  7. Over Fishing much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the fish are moving north because fish stocks around the world have been fished to the edge of collapse and the only place a species can survive now is expensively far from the reach of man.

    But that would be proof that we're just greedy fucks. Unlike climate change where we can blame everyone else.

    I'm glad this keeps Buck Laukitis up at night. It should.

  8. Why would companies make it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If people consumed less, the companies would produce less...
    It's not rocket surgery

  9. Life adapts; it's amazing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the federal government is shut down. Good news all around!

  10. Red Herring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this case, the fish are moving not because of water temperature, but because of decades of overfishing.

    Halibut are perfectly capable of thriving far south of the Aleutians but have migrated north because they are still relatively unmolested there.

    Don't let the climate wackos dupe you on this one.

    1. Re:Red Herring by mcswell · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was also thinking about overfishing, but not migration. I instead suspect these fish have always been that far north, but nobody knew because the fishing was easier further south. But now that the more southern fisheries have been overfished, the fishermen are going further north and finding new--to them--schools.

  11. The people didn't necessarily choose by rsilvergun · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Florida's elections are staggeringly corrupt and pretty close. There's also a mounting of disenfranchisement. 1.5 million Floridians can't vote because of a criminal conviction. They've restored virtually noone's voting rights either. A law was passed to give 1 million of them their rights back and their corrupt legislature is blocking it. And that's just one example. There's a ton of evidence of votes not being counted, voting machines not working in left leaning districts, etc, etc.

    The FL GOP is as crooked as a dog's leg. If the national media was doing it's damn job they'd all be in prison.

    --
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    1. Re:The people didn't necessarily choose by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Even without mass media spoon feeding, people have to take their own initiative and raise hell.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  12. Algae grows best in warmer waters by rsilvergun · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    that's where climate change comes in. Red Tide due to phosphorus is a problem, but it's exacerbated by warming due to climate change. All sorts of things we used to get away with become untenable once climate change is factored in.

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  13. "The northward movement of fish around the world" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The northward movement of fish around the world"

    Uhh no that would only apply to the Northern hemisphere.

  14. DO NOT FEED THE LYINWUSS TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who bothers responding to you is dumber for doing so, go die in a fire you treasonous inbred troll.

    1. Re:DO NOT FEED THE LYINWUSS TROLL by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Pacific islands are overwhelmingly growing, very few are going away. Adding land typically doesn't qualify for "going bye-bye"... But scary phrases and lies rule the day, eh?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    2. Re:DO NOT FEED THE LYINWUSS TROLL by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      'larger' doesn't mean higher

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    3. Re:DO NOT FEED THE LYINWUSS TROLL by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      If the oceans are rising - then yes, larger would mean the island would necessarily have gotten higher (otherwise it would shrink). Again - what islands are shrinking/disappearing?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:DO NOT FEED THE LYINWUSS TROLL by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1
      Tangier Island, MD

      Micronesia - Eight Pacific islands lost

      Islands aren't the only problem. The a huge bulk of human society lives on the coasts. London, Miami, New York, etc. Miami is experiencing far more flooding just from tides than it did just 30 years ago.

      London built the Thames Barrier to prevent storm surge flooding. over 50 percent of it's usage has been regular tidal flooding

      The Thames Barrier has been closed 182 times since it became operational in 1982 (correct as of February 2018). Of these closures, 95 were to protect against tidal flooding

      Sometimes they even close the barrier now at low tide to provide a place for excess rain to go because the rain plus higher tides would be flooding.

      Sea level is rising and now rising faster than it has in 100s or 1000s of years.. That simply isn't in dispute.

      Larger islands don't discount rising seas until they are overtopped. An island that's 1 foot above sea level can get larger with 6 inches of rise without shrinking - that doesn't mean there isn't a significant problem going forward.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  15. Nice! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love me some fresh fish!
    And why is Al Gore buying beachfront land in CA?

    Why doesn't the left do anything except jack up taxes?
    Is it a profit scheme?

    1. Re:Nice! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why is Al Gore buying beachfront land in CA?

      Thanks for confirming that Global Warming is very real by designating a villa 2 miles from the ocean and 200 ft up "on beach front land".

  16. Re:"The northward movement of fish around the worl by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Yeah well, the fish heading south are going to bump into a huge land mass before they get near the pole.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  17. Humans are also Predatory by Amigori · · Score: 2

    Here in Alaska, there is always concern over the fish stocks. The commercial boats want to catch as much as possible for as cheaply as possible. The sport fishers and charter boats want to catch a reasonable amount (relatively small) and have fun doing it. And the subsistence fishers just want to pack their freezers so they can survive.

    From my sport fisher point-of-view, aside from the climate change bits, the problem is over-fishing by the commercial boats. Those trawlers just catch sooo many fish. 8y ago, our average halibut was 45-50 lbs, and keep 2 of any size. Now its

    The salmon aren't any different. The return numbers and escapements continue to get lower. And I can't tell you the last time the US met its TREATY goals with Canada. If the commercial boats catch all the salmon in the ocean, they can't return to spawn to make more fish.

    Many of these problems are man-made with straightforward solutions.

    --
    "The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
  18. News for nerds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yea not, just another lib hippy link that may or may not be actually related to there favorite dead horse flogging.

  19. This has impacted trawler design by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    Now that fishermen are netting fried cod and grilled halibut, the boats are being redesigned to keep the catch piping hot from net to dock.

  20. sardines in CA by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Chances are good that Sardines will migrate north and restart the sardine cannery in CA. Sounds like it is minor, but at this time, the Sardines are around mexico and China basically raids the fisheries quite frequently

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  21. Acknowledge The Problem First by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's say you are correct in all aspects. This still puts the Democrats in a far superior position, in every respect.

    In order to solve a problem, you have to acknowledge the problem first. The Republicans deny there even is a problem, they are still stuck with their head in the sand. For them to change course on Climate Change is a much more difficult challenge.

    The Dems merely have to say, "well, now it's time to enact some policies, and maybe it's going to cost some money".

  22. So easy, but you are getting worse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Twice as bad as EU and China, but still you get worse. When is enough?

  23. Tides go in and out, not up and down the coast. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tides are affected by the moon.is Global Warming now changing the moons orbit too?
    Back to science classes for you...

  24. Re: Tides go in and out, not up and down the coast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Currents and oscillation are not controlled by the moon. When you finish 8th grade, you can then move on

  25. Re: Tides go in and out, not up and down the coast by mcswell · · Score: 1

    WindBourne's post (to which the AC you were responding to was himself responding to) said, "there is fast tidal movement..." The AC you're responding to is quite right: tides are caused by the gravitational attraction of the moon and (to a lesser extent) the sun. They are also affected by other things, such as the size of the water basin (tides in the Atlantic can be sizeable, while tides in the Great Lakes are negligible), the position of the measuring station (tides act something like standing waves, so the tidal range tends to be greatest on the margins, and least in the middle), other geological factors (tides in the Bay of Fundy can reach 50 feet or more, due to the shape and length of the Bay), and yes, to some extent by weather. But to repeat, the ultimate cause of tides is the gravitational attraction of the moon and sun.

    Perhaps you should repeat eight grade. Oh, and on a lighter note, you might read Larry Niven's "Neutron Star", and pay special attention to the ending.

  26. Re: Tides go in and out, not up and down the coast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Currents aren't tides though are they...
    Back to kindy for you? Or just buy a dictionary without pictures?

  27. Solve your deficits LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you propose to do that?

    You can't even stop importing useless junk from China that you don't even need. A billion dollars a day, your tariffs only made it go up!

  28. horse hockey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Horseshit. Fishing pressure is what is driving the migrations, we are seeing the same thing with salmon returns in the puget sound. Returns are pushing later in response to commercial netting, which tends to be front loaded in the run.
    And it's not fish running away from nets or longlines; it's the stocks in impacted areas being fished out, such that you only find fish in more remote areas or later in the season.