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The GPS Wars Have Begun (techcrunch.com)
Where are you? That's not just a metaphysical question, but increasingly a geopolitical challenge that is putting tech giants like Apple and Alphabet in a tough position. From a report: Countries around the world, including China, Japan, India and the United Kingdom plus the European Union are exploring, testing and deploying satellites to build out their own positioning capabilities. That's a massive change for the United States, which for decades has had a practical monopoly on determining the location of objects through its Global Positioning System (GPS), a military service of the Air Force built during the Cold War that has allowed commercial uses since mid-2000 (for a short history of GPS, check out this article, or for the comprehensive history, here's the book-length treatment).
Owning GPS has a number of advantages, but the first and most important is that global military and commercial users depend on this service of the U.S. government, putting location targeting ultimately at the mercy of the Pentagon. The development of the technology and the deployment of positioning satellites also provides a spillover advantage for the space industry. Today, the only global alternative to that system is Russia's GLONASS, which reached full global coverage a couple of years ago following an aggressive program by Russian president Vladimir Putin to rebuild it after it had degraded following the break-up of the Soviet Union. Now, a number of other countries want to reduce their dependency on the U.S. and get those economic benefits. Perhaps no where is that more obvious than with China, which has made building out a global alternative to GPS a top national priority. Its Beidou navigation system has been slowly building up since 2000, mostly focused on providing service in Asia.
Owning GPS has a number of advantages, but the first and most important is that global military and commercial users depend on this service of the U.S. government, putting location targeting ultimately at the mercy of the Pentagon. The development of the technology and the deployment of positioning satellites also provides a spillover advantage for the space industry. Today, the only global alternative to that system is Russia's GLONASS, which reached full global coverage a couple of years ago following an aggressive program by Russian president Vladimir Putin to rebuild it after it had degraded following the break-up of the Soviet Union. Now, a number of other countries want to reduce their dependency on the U.S. and get those economic benefits. Perhaps no where is that more obvious than with China, which has made building out a global alternative to GPS a top national priority. Its Beidou navigation system has been slowly building up since 2000, mostly focused on providing service in Asia.
Kind of funny that the Chinese don't trust the Russians either otherwise they'd be using theirs.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
We just pay for our own satellites with our taxes and use all the other ones for free, just like everybody else.
More satellites, more precision.
I miss the 'war' part of the article.
"Owning" - https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/07/12/google-maps-gps-hack-takes-victims-to-ghost-locations/
https://www.techworm.net/2016/11/gps-spoofing-dangers-gps-data-hacking.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7734296/russia-hack-nato-wargames-gps-signal-norway/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/
Because, if not, the US “owning it” doesn’t really put anyone at the US government’s mercy - it’s a passive service.
Sure, you can jam the clients... but that messes up both friend and foe.
#DeleteChrome
Begun, the GPS wars have...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The synopsis left out a critical detail .. the fact that the US can either intentionally degrade the accuracy of the resulting signal by hundreds of meters.
Or they can disable its functionality completely over a certain area.
That's all on the whim of the US government. They haven't degraded the signal for decades, but they can and would in areas like a war theater or over an arbitrary "enemy" nation / region.
Under normal circumstances I would never expect the US to do so, but with the current government being as erratic as it is, you never know, and that uncertainty is certainly enough to have other nations redoubling their efforts to build competing systems.
Yawn. If I need to go someplace I have never gone before, sure GPS is handy. Usually I go places I already know where they are or people come to see me who already know where I am. It isnt like I am playing some game where I need to surreptitiously meet people and buy stuff in the down low. Here is a sample conversation: Hi Fred I just got out of jail can you pick me up and get me a nice lunch? Sure Wilma, let me get my rock wallet and driving shoes. See you in a few! Next article?
Another fine example of how competition leads to duplication of effort: the world only needs one constellation of positioning satellites, but has more than that already, and with more to come (because WE can't trust THEM. Insert your own candidates for WE and THEM)
This also demonstrates how the idea of a nation state is not compatible with space faring civilisations: we need to have more that one of everything because we can't trust the other groups on this one planet.
How would that look when we occupy more than one planet? USA.Earth vs China.Earth vs Muskia.Mars vs Bezostan.Mars all fighting over the same space rock containing vast amounts of water ice?
Will all the nations of one planet band together to fight/compete with the nations of other planets? Everyone.Earth vs Everyone.Mars?
Phones can only use the services their chipset supports, and when it supports more than one it can use them in tandem to get better accuracy (plus resistance to problems, whether political or technical) The more GPS services there are, the better off we'll be.
If some country like China decides "we want phones sold here to only use our positioning service" then it is a simple matter of software to only use the results from the Chinese system if you are running in the Chinese language, have a Chinese SIM, are inside China's borders (all depends on what their law is) which isn't a problem. So you get slightly less accuracy, it is just a phone.
You are a brexiteer? Fascinating. It is rare to watch people commit economic suicide and be proud of it. Free-trade areas are something you move heaven and earth to get _into_. They are not something you ever want to leave.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Something's wrong with your head, Dave.
Sure, we could build our own satellite navigation system, to rival Galileo. But it needs a bit more than just launching bits of hardware, and we certainly did not provide all of the satellite technology - the work was deliberately spread all around the EU. Still, I'm sure those EU-based companies will happily sell us back the technologies we already partially paid for anyway - and all because of May's fit of pique, in saying that we're not even to get the access the rest of the non-EU will get to Galileo.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
fuck off ivan
GPS systems are like clocks. The only wrong number of competing GPS systems is two. If China makes three that's great.
It will be interesting to see if receivers from Russian and Chinese markets are intentionally nerf'd similar to export grade crap most of us end up with.
Best thing about having multiple GPS systems is ability to use frequency spread between systems to characterize ionospheric delay in order to massively improve accuracy.
This reminds me of a famous quote:
As a patriotic American, I think my citizenship in France is unnecessary, so like any good Berliner, I oppose the building of walls, but as a true Scotsman I understand the need for the Protestant Reformation in the north, though my Irish roots make it clear the Catholic Church is right on the issues of the day now more than ever, so we must vote to kick the UK out of the EU and Brexit forever.
Allah ahkbar, God save the queen!
- George Washington, atheist king of the Confederation of Soviet Socialist China.
We provided all the sat tech
No, you didn't.
but we had to partner with places like France...as they had the colonies near the equator to do the launches
First and foremost, they have the launch vehicles and you do not. But also, "had to partner"? It's an EU project. You didn't HAVE to partner with anyone, you could have simply not participate had you wished to do that. It's that simple.
The UK has the important bit - the satellite tech - we can get any old fucker to launch it.
Well, feel free to go ahead!
Yeah I agree, you WOULD have to be an idiot to say it was Clinton's idea - instead of reading it, where it directly says it was the direct recommendation from the Department of Defense which wrote up the entire thing and proposed it to him.
"Statement by the Press Secretary
RSS Feed White House News
Today, the President __ __ __accepted the _recommendation_ of the Department of Defense__ __ __ to end procurement of Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites that have the capability to intentionally degrade the accuracy of civil signals. This decision reflects the United States strong commitment to users of GPS that this free global utility can be counted on to support peaceful civil activities around the world.
This degradation capability, known as Selective Availability (SA), will no longer be present in GPS III satellites. Although the United States stopped the intentional degradation of GPS satellite signals in May 2000, this new action will result in the removal of SA capabilities, thereby eliminating a source of uncertainty in GPS performance that has been of concern to civil GPS users worldwide."
I suppose if Clinton were Trump (a total retard who didn't listen to expert advice from the Defense Dept generally) you could call it a significant decision to read and sign off on a complete and well-backed DOD proposal / request.
But Clinton, unlike the current idiot, knew he had to take recommendations from experts from time to time, that was part of the job - at that time, YMMV.
No foreign government should trust the US government given its track record in spying.
All of the above. That first point is clear enough. The rest of what you said is indeed derping. At what point should we bother to ask you questions and at what point cut you off?
Well the UK put $1.4 billion pounds into the project which, apparently, isn't good enough to have any say or special access. If it were me I'd ask for the money back but apparently May isn't interested.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
So, you're saying that because someone else proposed it, and it was an expert opinion, Clinton didn't make the decision?
Iâ(TM)m sure various USSR satellite states would beg to differ.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Really? Civilian GPS systems have existed far longer than that. Early 90's or so for handheld models you could pick up at sporting goods stores, probably even longer for commercial "breifcase" sized systems, and SA has been turned off since the mid to late 90's giving civilian GPS accuracy to a couple feet.
Why can't we all share
Heheehe I just realized i said $1.4 billion pounds. I guess that's like £1.4 billion dollars.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Saying "Clinton disabled GPS" or "Clinton decided" without mentioning the horde of worldwide civil engineers, scholars, military planners and strategists who saw the problem up front and proposed that very solution before Clinton even took office is yes intentionally misleading as written - and then for you to double down as if it were a "gotcha" point in your need to repeat pedantically it was his "decision" __ __to accept the long-studied DOD recommendation__ __ and do what everyone had investigated and signed off on the proposal and listen to those experts, letting their expertise stand without him injecting his "gut" and overruling them, it just shows how truly desperate you Trumptards are these days for any straw or floating jetsam to grasp onto as he sinks further into the 8 concurrent major felony investigations into every aspect of his treasonous Presidency from start to finish. Mueller will see you now, if you "decide" to grow balls and face him honestly.
I guess that "decision" is partially yours, Trumptards, as you continue to support a cowardly traitor who lies to your fat willingly-gullible faces daily and in fact hourly.
Yes, I'd say it warranted clarification to say degrading GPS wasn't actually Clinton's idea, it was the idea of a shitload of people both in and out of government, and he didn't fuck up putting his ego in the way of that expertise.
Clinton was never an engineer or GPS expert or even lay-reader. If Jimmy Carter had been the one with his naval nuclear propulsion physics/engineering background, that notion would be considerably more plausible.
Any other pedantic inquiries, Drumpftard? Mail them to the White House, I'm sure they'll be thrilled to get something in the mail that isn't a freshly unsealed Grand Jury indictment of a sitting co-Conspirator #1.
all of the systems currently are VERY easy to block
hopefully the UK system might have some Point to Point information or mitigation
being able to get to the raw sensor data on a receiver is crucial as well as calibration
you can see a list of android phones and their capability here :
https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/gnss
Apple need to step up in this regard and offer L5 Support, SBAS and BeiDou with offsets
Currently apple supports GPS (GALILEO which is compatible) GLONASS and augmentation from QZSS and wifi/bluetooth
regards
John Jones
Taking care of my four-year-old daughter costs about $25,000/year.
I spend about 25% of my salary on stuff for her ($25,000).
She spends 100% of her $12 income on herself.
By your reasoning, I'm not supporting her, she's supporting herself.
Don't go shoot up a school bro.
Dude, what is wrong with you?!? Go take a chill pill or seek some help.
Most people understand that a President or any leader isn't qualified in anything he is actually leading. That they don't make decisions in a vacuum.
So in that real world context, the poster's post on Clinton making the decision is far more accurate than your drivel. As a leader, he made a decision. This isn't a situation of Bush Sr raised taxes when it was actually Congress.
That's interesting. On the other hand, I'd rather be a senior software engineer than a subsistence farmer. Growing your own food is good if and only if it's better than what they had been spending their time and resources on.
You mentioned it's largely because of subsidies - the taxpayer paying them more than the value of the goods produced. That sounds like an inefficiency, a bad thing.
No, it was a really long winded way for a communist pea-brained libtard to work in his 143rd "Fukk Drumpf" post of the 5:00PM PST hour to earn his soup ration from Soros.
Because each new GPS satellite adds accuracy to the existing set of constellations, it’s technical cooperation, not war. The only reason why any country needs to add its own GPS constellation is to assure that it can never lose the ability to navigate, whatever other countries do.
No, they would not. The USSR was not a free-trade area. But your attempt at cheap, dishonest propaganda is noted.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
To be clear, the UK is not deploying a GNSS, despite what TFA implies. The EU is, and the UK had a hand in that, but any talk of a post-brexit UK GNSS is pure bluster. The notion that we will blow billions of pounds in a fit of pique because the EU won't let us play with their toys is laughable.
The USSR was indeed a free-trade area, at least according to the USSR. Now whether agreement within the zone was coerced or if someone flexes their muscle to set prices (like the EU and US often tries to do as well) is another thing entirely, but then you can throw out pretty much every 'free trade zone', especially the EU where every country/area has been granted monopolies on 'their' exports.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Hahaha... How's your Healthcare? Kept your doctor? Premiums went up 200% or down?
How's your privacy? NSA weaponized against you? Ruled unanimously unconstitutional by the Supreme Court?
How's your unemployment rate? Best in over 50 years?
Fuck yourself.
> It's better to be inefficient then depending on a foreign power for your food.
Certainly you wouldn't want to be dependent on a single foreign power for the majority of your food. That does NOT mean it's bad to buy bananas from India and coffee from Brazil. The United States imports more food than it exports, we are not self-reliant. We are also not at the mercy of any other nation for our food. Choose any country and we could stop importing food from them and it wouldn't hurt us much - and it would probably hurt them a lot more.
If a country currently does a lot of technology and engineering work, outsourcing farming to poorer countries, reversing that is probably bad. The country that does engineering and technology development is probably better off than the country based on farming.
So while agree you wouldn't want to be dependent on a single foreign power, agricultural economies are frequently third world economies. You don't want to be more like them.
You mean like Turkmenistan or Tajikistan that are far poorer than they have been during the Soviet times? Yep, go ahead, ask them. Almost all former Soviet republics and satellite states that are truly better off nowadays are EU members.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
No, they would not. The USSR was not a free-trade area. But your attempt at cheap, dishonest propaganda is noted.
USSR was theoretically[1] free-trade within the entirety of the USSR.
[1] They claimed it was, I wasn't living there at the time but for all anyone can tell, it was indeed free-trade.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Today, the only global alternative to [GPS] is Russia's GLONASS
Galileo hasn't deployed all satellites yet but is already operational worldwide. Beidou is planned to attain global reach in 2020.
It was not a free trade area, but a federation with planned economy.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
You are a Euro-Islamofascist. Brexit is in the best interests of the citizens of the UK, no doubt.
The European Union is doomed to fail, and the sooner it fails, the better for all those who are currently member states. It's run by un-elected bureaucrats who think they know best how to run everyone else's lives. You DO want to leave a centrally controlled socialist-fascist power hungry organization such as the European Union.
All the difficult parts of the sat tech was done in the UK.
We don't need our own fucking launch vehicles.. didn't you read? Space launches are commoditised.
Fuck Ariannespace.
It's the UK that is in the driving seat here.
Neither is the EU, dipshit.
Name another "free trade area" that has a supreme court, parliament and demands to control your law making, and imposes free movement - and doesn't consider itself a state.
I can wait.
Yea, just ask Ukraine. 50+ million killed due to starvation under USSR rule. They had it GREAT back then.
Why is it moron liberals think communism/socialism is great and ignore the 100+ million killed in the 20th century because of it? If it helps liberals/progressives get into power they are for it, no matter how many are killed off. After all, those being killed off were against them being in power and deserved it.
Liberalism/Socialism = killing of people against you is acceptable to get you more power.
It also occurs to me that sometimes the UK has a draught (comparatively, for the crops they grow), severe storms, or other other issues that cause a growing season to be largely unproductive. The land area devoted to farming in the UK is small enough that a bad season can affect most of it.
I would much rather have diverse food sources.
But what if the huns start with the U-Boats again?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I should have worded that differently. I shouldn't have said "by your reasoning". I should have said "by percentage of her income".
Of course you're already aware of the problems with the "as a share of their economy" reasoning.
This is really about military applications. Weapons like missiles can use GPS for guidance to targets. Currently the US can and does turn off GPS or scrambles it over war zones, or to mess with NK and China.
And the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere really did bring prosperity to all, according to the Japanese.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
No, the GPS wars will begin with an enemy destroys GPS satellites, leaving driver-less cars stranded.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
https://45daufej2nx1wbya31rbi2... ?
Yet the govt is in gridlock because of a fucking wall that was promised to be paid for by Mexico. Mexico is laughing their asses off right now.
As Hognoxious implied, things can change making shipping food half way around the world very inefficient, and air lifting food for 10's of millions of people is not efficient. Even a small country like the UK has tons of land suitable for food production and I'm a firm believer in diversity when it comes to the economy.
America is a bad example as your well situated to feed yourself, perhaps without bananas but with stables including lots of vegies.
Doesn't hurt to keep trade open as droughts and such do happen. Eventually there is going to be something big, as in a huge volcanic eruption, which will really strain our food production.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
For a start, "Brexit means brexit" means as long as Britain exits the EU, the government have done EXACTLY as asked. Secondly, the politicians for brexit ran like a nude sprinter in a nun's convent when the egg whisks were on sale, and they could have done it, they said what would result on leaving and then when their claims about what would happen could actually be tested, they fucked off.
But as far as the current government is concerned, as long as they exit the EU, BREXIT has occurred 100% as demanded. You fuckwits never said WHAT you meant by brexit. Just "Brexit means brexit!".
And now your tirade is that he wants chaos in brexit???
He's letting the fuckwits who said nothing more than "BREXIT MEANS BREXIT!" get what they demanded.
And that federation enforced free trade within that federation.
That doesn't make sense. A federation is a single country and there is no free trade in a planned economy.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Since airfreight apparently costs the same as sending stuff by sea, perhaps you can explain why we bother having all those container ship thingies.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You were serious?
FYI the huns were absorbed into other conquering peoples in the sixth century. Most of their DNA seems to have ended up in Russia, Ukraine, and Romania.
This might be the dumbest thing I've read on the intetnet. Dumber than "it was cold this morning so global warming is a hoax". But not by much.
Seems a bit of a waste for each country to get their own gps system. There are about 200 countries. How many systems do we really need? One.
How hard can it be? Just make one international system, that simply sends out the highest precision signal, all the time - no signal degradation options whatsoever.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/