Some Chinese Companies Are Giving Employees Incentives For Buying Huawei Devices or Just Giving Them One and Boycotting Apple (nikkei.com)

A growing number of Chinese companies are throwing their support behind Huawei Technologies following the recent arrest of its chief financial officer in Canada, taking such steps as offering subsidies for staff who buy the telecom equipment maker's smartphones. From a report: Many Chinese businesses have told employees they will receive subsidies if they buy Huawei smartphones to aid the company. Most are subsidizing 10% to 20% of the purchase price, with some even covering the full amount. Over 20 Chinese companies also took to social media to announce that they will increase purchases of other Huawei products, such as its business management system.

The show of support has been broad, from information technology providers to food companies. A regional government official said that several hundred businesses were conducting such programs nationwide. Electronics maker Shanghai Youluoke Electronic and Technology is fully subsidizing up to two Huawei smartphones per employee, while display equipment maker Shenzhen Yidaheng Technology will cover 18% of the price for Huawei or ZTE units. Fuchun Technology, a communications service company listed on Shenzhen Stock Exchange announced on social media on Dec. 11 that it would give each of its 200 employees who buy Huawei's smartphone before the end of 2018 between 100 and 500 yuan ($14.5 to $72.5).

Comments

Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Enough with thre chink articles.

Re:Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

aww snowflake does losing your empire and going back to 3rd world nation status hurt?

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

lol whut?

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Extreme leftists are masters of delusion. The weakest of the weak. Dried up leaves ready to crumble from the gentlest of breezes. Do not listen to them. Do not take them seriously.

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

And what stopped them from doing this before?

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

What, Germany?

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as people are divided and call each other names corporations win. Remember that both Republican and Democratic politicians are lined up to sell you out to the highest bidder. Trump is ridiculous. So is Hillary. So is Pelosi. They all think you are idiots to be fooled and fucked.
The French are the only ones who seem to know how to react when things go too far.
If Americans believe they can change things at the ballot box then they will lose. Democracy is dead. Get your yellow vest ready and prepare to bleed.
As Ghandi said: first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Re: Nobody cares

[PopeRatzo]

Democracy is dead.

Mobs in yellow vests don't generally bring it back to life.

The only way to revive Democracy is to practice it. It's like anything else: if you want to get better at something, you have to practice. We may be on a trend of greater electoral participation in the US, which can only help us. There will still be minorities in power in certain places (Wisconsin, North Carolina, etc) who will try to thwart the will of the people on their way out the door, but they're on their way out the door, which is the important part.

I think some guarded optimism is warranted. Maybe it's just the eggnog, but I choose to look on the bright side.

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!!

Re: Nobody cares

[umghhh]

I appreciate your sentiment and for long years I was convinced about that too. In fact I still think the only thing that can save democracy is practice. There are significant obstacles tho. The bigger the society governed by democracy the bigger the problems with legitimacy and the social glue needed for the whole system to work for at least majority if not for all. It kind of work in counties of the Swiss federation. Yet you can see where this leads when the people decide against establishment and external forces of oppression. You could see it for instance in Greece when they voted against certain policies (as reasonable or not they may have been) and have been then forced to accept them anyway by their government. The marxist hysteria that goes through each of the western societies claiming superiority of feelings and ideology over facts and reason is another. Add to this what the IQ distribution in a population tells you - if 10% cannot be even drafted into the military to become a cannon fodder due to their low ability yet they have the same voting rights as you do - and slashdot readers, even those infected with social justice syndrome have above average analytical skills - what does that tell you about quality of decisions made in a group including such a mix? . Throughout history democracy's success is rather based on accident than efficiency. Possibly it allows for easier removal of unwanted politicians or preventing dynasties but when society stabilizes itself into oligarchy it is just a failure anyway and it can hardly work in times of fast arriving challenges. Same histoy books show that, there is no system that is durable and just. No matter what after a while the corruption and/or dementia start to plague any system. Add to this religions that see themselves entitled to control society and politics as well as industry (there is at least one that does that and has success in achieving such control in many states all around the world mostly bringing suffering and oppression to most involved) and conflicts that are usually resolved by discussion and compromise become unsolvable meaning that whoever wins the vote will have to oppress the ones that lost it, just as well as the ones that lost it will see themselves as rightful defenders of democracy and justice including use of violence if need be. I am not sure if there is cure for this. I suppose not. So exercise in democracy while working for some time will have to have order shaking bumps changing social order and fixing it for some time till next bump arises. I personally think we are close to such set of bumps. The technology, demography, politics all seem to exacerbate problems at the moment. No amount of democracy can fix shaking and pain caused by the bumps. A skillful leadership (democratically elected or not) may help.

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

We had a loose confederation. Then this bullshit constitution came along, and all downhill from there. One serfdom for another.

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Somebody didn't see the EC map after the 2016 election. Until either the RNC abandons corporations and their evil deeds or the DNC abandons morally reprehensible positions (killing babies because they're inconvenient, emasculating men and attacking motherhood and fatherhood, wanting to force people to participate in other's delusions, etc.), neither of which is likely, you'll find elections continuing to flip flop back and forth.

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

I find this comment amusing when the Democrats have pretty much defiled Democracy with their, "Resist" movement. Democrats LOVE Democracy, until they lose. Then it's, "Eliminate the electoral college!", "Eliminate the Senate!". Seriously, you people are the most dangerous thing we face as a nation.

I look forward to the next Democrat President because I will spare no effort in spreading false and defamatory information about that person 24/7. Do you fuckers think you are the only ones who can abuse social media?

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Girly Democrat men had better cool it with their disdain for the Constitution.

1. You've turned in all your guns.
2. You are pathologically afraid of guns.
2. Those of you that haven't, shoot one handed, sideways, while holding up your pants wit the other.

Re: Nobody cares

[AlwinBarni]

... I am not sure if there is cure for this. I suppose not. ...

I think education is an answer, a democracy works well only in a well educated society, which keeps practicing it. And the education not as just preparing for a job, but wide and thorough. There are societies (few but still), where democracy is practiced by majority and which put education as an important part of their state responsibilities voting participation.

Also I would not disrepair, democracy truly works - it's better than anything else tried so far.

... No amount of democracy can fix shaking and pain caused by the bumps. A skillful leadership (democratically elected or not) may help. ...

Strongly disagree, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" - there's only one way forward for a not democratically elected government, and it's not a way of freedom, it's a way of oppression, censorship, corruption, political imprisonment, followed by more oppression.

Re: Nobody cares

[PopeRatzo]

I find this comment amusing when the Democrats have pretty much defiled Democracy with their, "Resist" movement. Democrats LOVE Democracy, until they lose. Then it's, "Eliminate the electoral college!", "Eliminate the Senate!".

Think about what you're saying. The electoral college and the US Senate are some of our least democratic institutions. In fact, they are anti-democratic by design.

Re: Nobody cares

[ewibble]

I think education is an answer, a democracy works well only in a well educated society, which keeps practicing it. And the education not as just preparing for a job, but wide and thorough. There are societies (few but still), where democracy is practiced by majority and which put education as an important part of their state responsibilities voting participation [followmyvote.com].

I disagree, people are now more educated than any time in history, we have access to more (dis)information. The reason I think we don't vote is we don't think it makes any difference and all politicians are just liars

Here are things that I think we need for democracy to work better:

1. Public political funding, sure it costs but I would rather pay taxes than have companies and the rich donate because it will cost me more in the long run. Also once money can buy votes you no longer have a democracy you have a cashcracy. Also you have to have a funding system that allows small parties to have their say.

2. Transparency, everything should be made public (sometimes eventually). You are doing things in the public's name, binding them to agreements you make. The public is your boss, you wouldn't get away with secret negotiations at work which you didn't tell your boss about. Yes somethings have to be kept secret for a while but you should have to provide reasons why and know that your actions will be made public eventually.

Sure you should be able to get advice from companies, and companies should be able to lobby you, but only in public. If they are not willing to give their input in public then they should not give it.

3. Honesty, this goes hand in hand with forgiveness of mistakes. Deceiving (relating to policies) should be less accepted, if you made a mistake you should admit it. The public should also accept that politicians are human and make mistakes, if they do not the only way a politician can keep there job is through lies. So you get liars, and honest people are removed.

4. Stop saying everyone should vote, yes it would be ideal if everyone cared and voted, but if you can't be bothered getting of your butt for 30 minutes to vote then you probably haven't put in the time to learn about the issues. All this does, is you will vote by name recognition, keeping small parties with possibly good ideas out.

Re: Nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Coward by name, coward by nature... can't walk the streets without living out a Rambo fantasy...

Re: Nobody cares

[umghhh]

All things associated with additional layer(s) between sovereign and the actual decision making may be necessary in big societies (more people than 9) but they also dilute legitimacy due to proxy layers. This may also mean that voters for particular proxy do not have much in common with voters for another proxy which makes accepting the decisions that are not to one's liking difficult or impossible. In other words democracy is difficult in scaling. If you use it for government system, then it will require a skilled and charismatic leader. But these can do good and evil as skills & charisma have nothing to do with moral. Talking about moral - the hypermoral that modern assholes mob preach is nothing but - the vulgodemocrats have no clue about democracy or about human rights, they just blather about it or otherwise abuse it, It may be that with increasing population density you get less and less freedom, More diversity may also mean less and less freedom but also less and less democracy exactly because you decisions are limited by considerations of minority rights. In modern western society rights of common men especially of common hetero men are less than appreciated. When we celebrated freedom at the fall of communism few decades ago, we expected to live in freedom and democracy was means to to achieve it. It could have been.

Re:Nobody cares

[sit1963nz]

Your soy bean growers in the USA cared.
Asia has 60% of the worlds population, the US 4%
Asia, in particular China is the LARGEST growth market in the world, the USA is about to see itself locked out of that market.
Trade with China is now considered more important than trade with the USA
Chinas economy will become bigger than the US, so will the EU, India and Brazil long term.

Re: Nobody cares

[sit1963nz]

And the countries that are MORE democratic than the USA all have gun control. The USA is 21st.

Re: Nobody cares

[AlwinBarni]

I think education is an answer, ...

I disagree, people are now more educated than any time in history, we have access to more (dis)information. The reason I think we don't vote is we don't think it makes any difference and all politicians are just liars ...

Well, agree. But still there are vast groups of people not well informed about politics, political processes, world in general and most importantly about scientific process of false/true recognition, who are thus easy to be manipulated - hence my "better education" argument.

Here are things that I think we need for democracy to work better: ...

In general agree with all the points, however this can happen only through voting, and to have support for it people have to have historical and sociological knowledge and understanding of human beings and societies, hence my "better education" argument.

Education is not a panacea for all the problems, it is however a good start to make improvements. Most of the good stuff is already in the Constitution, however (in my opinion) it was diluted by some interests groups or simply ignored. Corruption is one of the biggest problems of democracy - it has many forms (like sponsored vacation in the form of conferences, money in the form of payed speeches or promise of well payed positions in the future) - it's hard to fight, but transparency, limiting power of the government and dealing with the problem of "sponsored" representatives would help, which can only come with better understanding of the world, hence "better education".

News for nerds, stuff that matters

[Anonymous Coward]

This story isn't news for nerds, stuff that matters. Slashdot is trying to be a generic tech news site, and it fails rather miserably.

Slashdot used to post about the technical changes in the Linux kernel. Now, Slashdot mostly posts about social issues involved with Linux development. Both are tech stories, I suppose, but only one is really of interest to nerds.

The same thing applies to these types of stories. Sure, they're tech news, but they're just not that interesting to nerds.

Re:News for nerds, stuff that matters

[webmistressrachel]

Speak for yourself, troll; if you want something so mundane as tech changes to the kernel, there's a site for that: kernel.org.

The rest of us like /. so deal with it or check out Soylent. ;-)

Re:News for nerds, stuff that matters

[Anonymous Coward]

They are not 'wrong'. But they are not exactly right either. SD *used* to be about tech. But it has not been that way since at least 2002.

If you want decent 'tech' news I suggest hackernews.

Re:News for nerds, stuff that matters

[Anonymous Coward]

HN is tech news for the millennials and the cry babies!

USian companies should subsidize Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Just kidding. Apple is a "citizen of the world" and so can eat it.

Re: USian companies should subsidize Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is eating it. People are getting sick of iPhones and Apple's constant excuses for hardware defects, like the infamous "you're bending it wrong" speech. And after Microsoft's infamous "your burning it wrong" memo, Android is all that's left, meaning that Huawei is totally at the mercy of one US company.

Re: USian companies should subsidize Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Nonsense. American, Canadian and European telcos are being told bluntly to not use Huawei gear at all. It is not a stretch to turn that into âoeNo Chinese made devicesâ, which is all of them.

If Huawei makes both the basestation equipment and the handsets, then they can degrade other devices at the request of China

Re: USian companies should subsidize Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

People are getting sick of iPhones and Apple's constant excuses for hardware defects

Are you sure? There's a minor slump in iPhone numbers this year, but it's reflected across the board - HTC, Samsung and several no-name Chinese brands are all seeing massive reductions in sales volume as well, at a larger percentage. The cheapest, nastiest phones are holding steady or only seeing slight falls, while the Android flagships have been decimated. Apple is doing OK (not great) in comparison, due to having a higher quality product and stronger brand.

People are just being cheap due to external factors, and 2 huge consumer markets (China and the USA) are currently thrashing around trying to sort their shit out.

Re: USian companies should subsidize Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

More like we are past peak smartphone and people dont see the point in upgrading every two years. Same as desktops, laptops, tablets, watches, fitness trackers, etc. Once the market saturates, its about gaining marketshare through subsidy or incentives. Apple likes making boatloads of cash, so little incentive is given on the price, and without a US subsidy, Huawei can walk in with financial backing of their govt and undercut prices. WTO typically doesnt go for this.

The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[rtb61]

The problem with the arrest and subsequent political press releases is pretty much does make it a threat to all Chinese people and all Chinese companies. There was a surged in racism against Chinese in US comments and those would have been picked up on as well. They tend to be conformist and authoritarian and the mob reaction to this event was bound to spread. How much and how severely entirely up to the Chinese government but some will occur. It was really a bad idea by the US establishment and will have long term ramifications against US and Canadian citizens and companies in China, it will have the odour of trying to force colonial rule back on China and the Chinese living in China, it will not go down well and will last quite a long time. Just low grade idiots our of their depth playing stupid games, that other people will end up paying the price for. Yeah, it is going to fester for quite some number of years, from US or Canada probably smart to go elsewhere rather than China, your very unlikely to receive warnings for petty crimes and likely to receive the harshest penalties, not by orders from the top, just spread sentiment to each little point of authority all the way down the system.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[stephanruby]

Not only that, but now the little white lie "It's ok, I'm Canadian." won't work anymore.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[Ogive17]

Doing business in China already sucks. You basically must bribe the government with a 50% share of any company that wants to do business in China.

It sucks because of the 1.2 billion (or more) potential consumers.. but giving half your profits and all your technology to the Chinese gov't is not a smart plan.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

China is an expansionist Han-Nationalist ethnostate. They are not shy about their desires to see Han-Chinese be the dominant world power and undesirables sent to "reeducation" camps that already exist.

Supporting or defending China is like supporting Nazi Germany and should be punished the same way.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[Jane Q. Public]

This is nonsense.

Hauwei, One Plus, and ZTE phones were all caught spying on their owners and sending the data back home to China. And no, it's not the same as Facebook or Google. This is at the firmware level.

You may know that those companies have been banned for government use for a while now.

There is nothing "racist" or political about it. Companies that spy on people â" no matter who they are or where they're from â" are not welcome. Hauwei's CFO is apparently guilty of arranging trade with Iran in violation of U.S. trade sanctions, and lying about it. That's yet another concern.

Stop with the U.S-bashing already. There was perfectly good reason to do this.

THIS was from last February, in case you don't keep up with the news.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[rtb61]

You can troll it and mod it all the way down you want, your mistake is interpreting from your perspective and not from mainland China perspective and how it will be presented. Nothing in my comment reflects any values what so ever, just the outcome and how perceptions will be managed. Oh wah wah, US bashing, when anything does not agree with US perception, suck it up people, other countries will perceive the same actions in different ways and that will result in different than expected outcomes. From the Australian perspective, largely honestly, indifference, a Canada/USA/China problem something Australia should avoid (beyond the USA not fucking with Australian trade with the rest of the world). Apparently from the US perspective WAH WAH WAH not fair, suck it up.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[rtb61]

That is the impression I am getting. Sure they will hire them, as front people for image sake but they do not want them running anything, a solid hold over from the colonialism era and the Government of China reaches for that when ever it wants to (especially in the rest of the world and then the US government arrogantly pipes in and makes it worse for themselves). Reality is still reality and it is what must be dealt with, offending US sensibilities by pointing out how the Chinese will react in China, well, toughen the fuck up, people in other countries perceive the same things differently.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[rtb61]

You have to apologise to Canadians when you get it wrong in Australia, they get offended, see it in their face in an instant. Although it is a fun way to stir up Canadians in Australia, just be quick on the apology and the smile and agree with what ever is their USA sentiment.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[DNS-and-BIND]

If it only affects members of a single minority group, it is indeed racist. Racism isn't about intent. It's also about outcomes. Racism can occur without anyone having to be a racist - or without someone being actively prejudiced against a person of color. Shutting down racist, sexist, and similar conversations protects vulnerable participants.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[thegarbz]

If you think that's bad, just imagine how horrible things are in the USA, who have openly been caught spying on their own people, their own allies, and even worse imposing unilateral sanctions against a country for no reason and then arranging their allies to arrest foreign nationals because they are having a tempera tantrum that no one is listening to them.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit wrong take is wrong.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[DNS-and-BIND]

Says the man from the country that invented Jim Crow laws and used nuclear weapons against POC. How many illegal wars are you in right now?

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[DigiShaman]

We are in a Cold War with China. All of this you see going on is leveraging power and control in either preparation or as part of a broader planned 'kinetic' response in and around the Pacific.

Re: The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[edris90]

Yabba all the phones we have in the US do the same thing they just send the information somewhere else. Firmware level on a phone is no different than Windows running on a PC. Firmware these days holds an entire OS, abstraction layers apis. It's not the hard to modify bare metal hand assembly tuned code of the old days.. in the old days your firmware was on a read-only chip that bootstrap the OS from somewhere else.

Re: The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[edris90]

Racism absolutely is a measure of intent. What you're doing is trying to avoid testing for false positives guy trying to make a subjective social Construct, a universal objective aspect of physical interaction. Racism exists as a product of interpretation. Deeper down it's just animals reacting to things that are different with suspicion because it's part of the low-level processes that give us the ability to process information in the first place.

Re:The Arrest an Attack up all Chinese

[Anonymous Coward]

As we've seen there will be nationalistic Chinese reactions to having to face the consequences of not abiding by internationally accepted business laws. The question I have is how intelligent will it be for China to make doing business harder with some of the largest consumer markets and businesses in the world? That reaction is self-defeating.

i for one say good.

[nimbius]

disclosure: im an american.

our countries rationale for blacklisting huawei are shady at best:
1. spooky chinese government Does not hold water. Literally every tplink, every cisco, every netgear, and every D-Link are made in China. millions of routers and switches already run on hardware built in or under the direct supervision of the PRC. We've snored through 40 years of offshoring to China and now the government is somehow insisting just this one vendor is a big issue? unlikely.
2.Violation of ITAR: the federal legal statute that prevents you from selling Hitler a router. If you sell to iran -- which Huawei allegedly did -- then you're going to pay a fine. google "ITAR violations" and youll see a litany of various US owned and operated companies that have violated ITAR including Bluecoat and Symantec. Its virtually impossible not to violate it. not once did the US arrest a CEO of any of the ITAR violating companies and request their extradition. In every single case, A fine was paid and business resumed as usual. these companies did not even legally have to admit fault.

so what is the REAL reason we cant have huawei? is it because the Honor 10 is so damned good compared to the iPhone? No,..
The worry is that China will get widespread 5G coverage before the US does, which will allow it to accelerate the development of specific 5G-reliant technologies, like self-driving cars. With the help of Huaweis equipment, China would displace Silicon Valley as the worlds innovation center.

Re:i for one say good.

[Fly Swatter]

5G-reliant technologies, like self-driving cars

Really?

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Important words there are: "which Huawei allegedly did"

If there's proof present it in court, otherwise this just sounds like US companies leveraging the government to bad mouth a competitor.

Put up or shut up, for a country that supposedly believes in the free market there's a lot of what looks like political kneecapping going on here.

 

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

The worry is that China will get widespread 5G coverage before the US does, which will allow it to accelerate the development of specific 5G-reliant technologies, like self-driving cars. With the help of Huaweis equipment, China would displace Silicon Valley as the worlds innovation center.

It's unlikely that Trump himself is forward thinking enough for any elaborate plot to delay Chinese development. Certainly the Chinese are guilty of IP theft, one way, or another. It is certainly possible that there are people in the Trump administration using legal manoeuvres to advocate for certain positions. That's the ultimate problem. Everyone is supposed to be equal under the law, and while that has never been true, it now seems even less true.

Ultimately I understand James Comey's motivation to release what he did on Clinton. He was going with the equal justice under law without regards that his words probably changed the outcome of an election when he had no new information. Still that situation is preferable to wondering whether the next time our government has someone picked up, if there is a political motivation for it.

Re:i for one say good.

[Jeremy Erwin]

The basis of the complaint seems to be:

HSBC is obligated to follow US sanctions policy. If it facilitates transactions with Iran, it's subject to fines and prosecution. It is also obligated to perform a certain amount of due diligence with its clients to ensure that it does not violate US law.

Huawei does business with Iran through Skycom.

When HSBC asked Huawei about the ownership and control of Skycom, Meng Wanzhou characterized Skycom as an independent company-- when in fact, it was a subsidiary. This can be characterized as bank fraud. It might well have exposed HSBC to serious criminal liability.

First of all, according to the affidavit described at Meng’s Vancouver bail hearing, Meng is being charged with bank fraud, rather than violating U.S. sanctions on Iran. It is likely that Meng will be charged by the U.S. with violating the bank fraud statute, 18 U.S.C. 1344, which criminalizes any attempt “to defraud a financial institution,” or obtain funds from a “financial institution, by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises.” According to reports describing the U.S. affidavit, Meng is alleged to have personally made a presentation to HSBC claiming that a company doing business with Iran was not controlled by Huawei in violation of U.S. sanctions. If Meng knowingly misled HSBC in order to get some financial benefit or support, this would likely violate the statute—a breach that carries a possible 30-year jail sentence or $1 million fine.

The Detention of Huawei’s CFO is Legally Justified. Why Doesn’t the U.S. Say So?

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

google "ITAR violations" and youll see a litany of various US owned and operated companies that have violated ITAR including Bluecoat and Symantec. Its virtually impossible not to violate it. not once did the US arrest a CEO of any of the ITAR violating companies and request their extradition. In every single case, A fine was paid and business resumed as usual. these companies did not even legally have to admit fault.

I would throw out that in those cases the companies involved may not have admitted fault, but there's no claims they tried to cover up their ITAR violations. Also, the companies were willing to "work with" the US as far as becoming compliant. The real absurdity of the US is that as long as you have deep pockets and are willing to "work with" them becoming compliant, even if you've repeatedly demonstrated that your current lack of compliance is functionally equivalent to willful ignorance, you'll likely only have to pay a small fine and not admit any wrongdoing.

On the other hand, if you fight the government you will be made an example of and punished harshly. Look at how MS was treated. Plenty of other monopolies have come before the US government and been treated rather cordially. And after MS started playing ball and ponied up lobbying money, suddenly the threat of being broken up disappeared under some notion of impropriety by the first judge. That impropriety, of course, was having that very ruthless desire to punish a company who dared to fight back. Once some palms were greased, that sort of behavior was suddenly considered over the top.

I'm no apologists for MS, Huawei, Bluecoat, or Symantec. It's just patently clear that more than anything, the US is perfectly willing to forgive just about anything a company does for profit with a fine so long as they don't overtly fight them over it. I imagine that if Huawei were to suddenly "cooperate" it would be treated much like Facebook and Google with lots of scowls from Congressmen but functionally little to no actual action. The arrest got Huawei and China's attention. I honestly think the last part was unintended stupidity on the US's part, not realizing the person involved wasn't just some company CFO but a high position Chinese Communist Party member.

Re:i for one say good.

[WindBourne]

Uh no. The reasons for Huawei boycott DOES stand up. The issue is that you will not be shown the full evidence. Ever. Unless you work in the intelligence community. And even then, I doubt it.

And your last paragraph is total nonsense. Ppl like Trump does not give a flying fuck about Silicon Valley. Hell, he is letting iphone plummet against Huawei and not doing anything about it. More importantly, this battle is not from the WH or commerce. It is from the intelligence community. BIG difference.

Re:i for one say good.

[Jane Q. Public]

1) Straw-man argument

Hauwei was caught spying last year, and their products have been doing it ever since. Hauwei, ZTE, and One Plus were all caught doing it. They track everything from selfies to phone calls, and report back to China with the data. That is the reason they are all banned now for government use. It's not speculation, there is proof beyond reasonable doubt.

2) ITAR is irrelevant. That's just another straw-man.

ITAR regulates exports from U.S. businesses. None of those companies are U.S. businesses.

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you haven't seen "the full evidence", then what on earth makes you so sure it "DOES stand up"?

Re:i for one say good.

[AmiMoJo]

You are you going to believe? The US government, which has every reason to lie to hurt Huawei and boost domestic sales, which is known to lie about security stuff all the time (thanks Snowden) and which we know likes to install its own malware in American products. Or Huawei, who are willing to share their source code with governments and big customers, who have a better track record on security than Cisco and who are immune to National Security Letters?

Re:i for one say good.

[DeBaas]

although personally I wouldn't buy Huawei at this moment, the link you provided did not say anything about Huawei being caught spying. The six agency 'expressed distrust' but I didn't see any mention of Huawei being caught spying.

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are right (it is possible after all) Trump doesn't give a fuck. Or even understand. Like you said it is "the intelligence community" pushing this. And we all know they have backdoors into everything, and are in bed with Silicon Valley. It's obvious they are afraid of losing their access and ability to force American companies to bend over. (Which you know they do, National Security Letters etc). What isn't as obvious, is what you stand to gain from siding with them? A paycheck maybe?

Seems you were right only accidentally, does it even count?

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Huawei, the company that's "willing to share their source code" yet have on multiple occasions been caught sending user info back to the mainland, there was nothing in their source code that could have done that and when caught went "oops, we didn't mean to send every bit of data back to our servers"?

Look, we all know you're about as anti-american as can be, but seriously, go fuck yourself. No matter how bad the US is, and I'm not making excuses, we need to do better, China is far worse. And where as in the US I can petition and protest and try to start movements to change things for the better, in China, if you do that, you disappear.

Re:i for one say good.

[WindBourne]

Look. I can not tell you more than I have. However, here is a bit of logic for you. If you are from China, then you are picking the right side and saying the right things.
However, if you are from the west, then ask yourself, who you want listening? Do you want China listening who is in an economic war with the west, or possible America? I can not speak about what we do in Europe, but, O closed rank with most, if not all, of the EU govs after snowden's treason. As such, any spying that America does in Europe, we do with local permission ( obviously VERY high up in any gov). So, with that said, and assuming the worst, who do you want listening (in addition to your gov)? America who is looking for terrorists (and have reported them and stopped a NUMBER of attacks on western nations) OR China, who is using it for economic warfare (steal anything of business value) and will likely use it for warfare when it is to their advantage?

BTW, with all that said, If you mention trump and the fact that we Americans have gone fucking INSANE, then I understand exactly where you are coming from.

Re:i for one say good.

[WindBourne]

a paycheck? No.
I worked with the intelligence community and am aware of what has happened long ago, and still hear things today.

Any westerner believing that Huawei is a none-threat is an idiot.

Re:i for one say good.

[AmiMoJo]

If forced to choose then I'll take Chinese spying. The Chinese can't do much to me, where as the FIVEEYES lot can.

It's a false choice though. Even if we assume that each government backdoors all products originating from that country, you are probably at greater risk from random blackhats. On that front Cisco is one of the worst options.

Re:i for one say good.

[WindBourne]

The Chinese can and do a LOT of damage to you. U just do not realize it.

Re: i for one say good.

[edris90]

To do business in China you have to agree that the Chinese government has permission to assimilate any IP it wishes therefore it cannot be stolen because it's legitimate under the sovereign government of the land. Sovereign locality has complete in Ultimate overriding control what is considered legitimate within its borders. Hey sweet people agreed to pay situational price, and are reneging on it.

Re: i for one say good.

[edris90]

How is Western culture ever going to end unless somebody stamps it out? Jyst cuz you're born into a crap hole with excellent branding, doesn't mean you like it. Western culture, is also malignantly expansive. Western culture has mastered the art of misdirection and branding at the cost of real solutions & sustainable access to quality of life for all. Basically it has failed, continue to exploit countless lives for the benefits and Comforts of other lives. we may be familiar because we are born in it but that doesn't mean everyone is satisfied with the shit hole that is our culture and system of government. Instead of making more shity people what if we crafted a better culture? one that doesn't demand the majority suffer for the amusement for a minority.

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Any native English speaker can spell non. Go home Ivan you're drunk.

Re:i for one say good.

[Anonymous Coward]

He/she/it does. people do.

Hell, he is letting iphone plummet against Huawei and not doing anything about it.

Not doing anything? Letting? He's the cause of it fool. Or did you seriously think there would be no consequences of picking a trade fight with China?
Surely those cleaver people who keep telling you things, told you what to expect right?

Who can blame them

[lfp98]

US officials contend they were just following standard procedure and the rule of law, but Meng's arrest was anything but normal. Extending economic sanctions to companies that do business in Iran is one thing, but what other country would kidnap a high-profile foreign executive in transit at a foreign airport and incarcerate them for engaging in trade with a third country? North Korea, maybe? This is not normal procedure, it is shock-and-awe, a willful demonstration of just how far the US will go to work its will on other countries.

Re: Who can blame them

[spinitch]

This was a bizarre legal action that deserves scrutiny. The West should be setting an example for legal due process. An arrest warrant should have been presented using diplomatic channels since obvious there would be collateral damage to citizens of Canada and US. Outrageous. West does not condone incarceration of its citizens under similar circumstances.

Re:Who can blame them

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what it looks like when the Chinese sleepers wake up and post on slashdot.

Meng's arrest was retaliation for Americans being arrested in China "Because the Chinese government felt like it."

Re:Who can blame them

[Anonymous Coward]

Kidnap? AFAIK it was a routine arrest, regardless of who it was.

Maybe you're thinking it's Canada, so it's cold, so the guys were wearing ski masks, so that's the same as kidnapping?

Let me guess. You're also guessing blindly that they're going to "test him" and the fix is in that he weighs the same as a duck?

You are truly a blathering fool.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're full of shit. Huawei ignored international sanctions and subpoenas/indictments related to major countries they do business with, then officers of that company went into the jurisdiction of that legal order to arrest them. Like anyone else, like the head of Nissan. China, in RETALIATION (which isn't a legal tenet, you idiot) arrests 2 Canadians including a DIPLOMAT on bogus unstated charges and all but blatantly announces they're doing so to influence the legal proceedings of Huawei. None of that is legal on any level. China is a criminal enterprise not even pretending to have legal legs here. You're truly a moron for trying to pretend anything about Meng being arrested, given an attorney, read her rights, having her bail considered AT ALL, and informing the world of all of this including her wellbeing at all times is somehow on par with China disappearing people for months without a word. I hope you see the inside of a Chinese prison some day, for comparative educational purposes.

You are also moronic.

[Anonymous Coward]

"This was a bizarre legal action that deserves scrutiny" What's bizarre is you think characterizing it like that in 1 sentence precludes a need to explain just what the fuck about it was bizarre. Huawei's CFO is fair game.

Of course there's scrutiny, it's a US and Canadian court. They do things in the open, unlike China's "courts" if they can even be called that. Huawei ignored diplomatic channels AND subpoenas. You're uninformed, moron.

Re: You are also moronic.

[Anonymous Coward]

How many US CEO/CFO's were prosecuted post GFC? Nada. The will wasn't there. Now Meng faces charges on bank fraud? Something doesn't add up.

Re: You are also moronic.

[Anonymous Coward]

A New York court issued an arrest warrant for Huawei Technologies' chief financial officer Meng Wanzhou on Aug. 22. Revealed in her hearing not initial reports.
If she received this arrest warrant prior to visiting then fair warning. However China has been known to charge foreigners for violating their laws unknowingly. Why no lawyer from Huawei contested ahead of time is bizarre. Did Huawei or China wanted to provoke an incident and stir National backlash ( wild conspiracy speculation) ? Did Huawei not know? Many Americans and Canadians reside and visit China. This incident should raise questions was it handled appropriately. Never said it was not.

Fuck Chinese criminals. Fuck apologists.

[Anonymous Coward]

If Huawei didn't break the law why did they ignore the people saying they did? If you break US law and you decide to walk on US soil, or an affiliated nation with extradition treaty, it doesn't really matter which law that is.

If you're behind a million dollars on child support, you will be picked up. Chinese, Finnish, Australian, Filipino, or purple tentacle, it does not matter. Fuck Chinese who think they deserve special treatment.

The fact that China arrested two unrelated Canadians on bogus charges as retaliation appears to have been missed by you, as is the response to back their state-owned company in anti-US fomenting directly.

Break the law, face a trial, with your lawyer, and if your defense is as RETARDED as a powerpoint marketing drawing, YOU BELONG IN OUR JAILS for as long as our laws say you do.

Don't like it? Then don't do business with the west, and don't fucking set foot on affiliated soil - OR YOU WILL be picked up and tried for your criminal enterprise.

Fuck apologists. Our process has been entirely legitimate and legal and China and Huawei both intentionally ignored it. Well ignore it now, bitches.

Re: Fuck Chinese criminals. Fuck apologists.

[Anonymous Coward]

If China makes it illegal to sell products to Taiwan, then proceeds to arrest foreign nationals, on foreign soil, in violation of their law, do you really think that's going to wash? I don't think so.

Re: Fuck Chinese criminals. Fuck apologists.

[Anonymous Coward]

They are welcome to do so. If they have an extradition treaty with some other country and pick up Zuckerberg or whomever, why should the US government or citizens care?

People like that are now citizens of the world.

Re: Fuck Chinese criminals. Fuck apologists.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck rich people, fuck them because they think being rich makes them special and above the law, fuck them for fucking the poor to further enrich themselves. See where I'm going with this? So fuck you, you elitist American racist cunt, for bending over like a good boy and thanking the cunts fucking you over. But that's okay, that's the American dream, isn't it? You're so fucked, just like the rest of us...

Re: Fuck Chinese criminals. Fuck apologists.

[Anonymous Coward]

That was wasnt the issue. They were selling US tech bought under an agreed to export control agreement to Iran. They didnt have to sign the agreement and they could have sold other tech. But they voluntarily signed a license with intent to break it, did break it, and then tries to hide it through creative finance accounting.

Re: Fuck Chinese criminals. Fuck apologists.

[Anonymous Coward]

That will work on any foreigner dumb enough to be in China or leave money there. There is a reason the Chinese people with money try to buy property outside of China instead of leaving it at home.

I have been offered double, even triple my salary to work there. Even if the air didn't stink the lack of guaranteed freedom blows.

Re: Fuck Chinese criminals. Fuck apologists.

[Anonymous Coward]

US has openly stated it will not cede sovereignty to ICC investigation of war criminals. That's just investigation, not even prosecution. I very much doubt they would be happy with Zuckerberg facing a Chinese court.

Blatant Bank Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice trolling, but what she did was blatant bank fraud.

Don't blame em

[WindBourne]

Fact is, only in America have our businesses been so stupid as to ignore the nation in which they are based in. In Europe, Asia, South America, etc, businesses remember to support their nation. Here, in America, we have foisted such BS on ourselves that even the executives screw over America. Don't want to employ here, OR be taxed, but by god, if China or some other nation screws with them, we are expected to jump all over it.
Total BS. Congrats to those Chinese companies that are patriotic enough to support their nation.

Re:Don't blame em

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because most of them are actually Irish businesses? What? You know for tax reasons ;)

Re:Don't blame em

[Anonymous Coward]

" we have foisted such BS on ourselves " Bullshit. Unless you mean the Republican corporate apologist culture of allowing workers to be screwed, the environment destroyed, and lies to become on-par with facts, with golden parachutes and a slap on the wrist if they're ever caught destroying the economy. Wasn't Trump elected specifically to drain the swamp, who remembers that? Who did he hire? The GOLDMAN SACHS administration. Only in America could former criminals become powerbrokers again in under a decade as if it never happened, that's true. But saying the US was somehow "foisting" anything on corporate greedypigs to make them fuck over the country repeatedly, the ENRONs and Monsantos and Wells Fargos and Trumps, that's just pure deluded apologism on your part.

China was always nationalist shysters. What changed is that we became so WEAK and FECKLESS that we convinced ourselves to do business with them anyway, where accountability is even further from reality.

People like you, Windbourne, apologizing for criminal enterprise is why criminal enterprise is tolerated here. People you support for your single-issue politik, fool.

Go on, continue bowing to crime you faggot. Sickening.

Re:Don't blame em

[nnull]

The problem is, Chinese patriotism doesn't exist. Chinese don't even like most Chinese products. So I don't see how this incentive program is going to work. First thing they will probably do is trade in their Huawei for an Apple Iphone.

Re:Don't blame em

[WindBourne]

Don't kid yourself. I have deal with 2 chinese spies. Oddly, one of them grew up in Taiwan. The fact is, that most Chinese HATE their gov but love their nation and ppl (not much different than here). As such, they will gladly knock their gov, BUT, once they see fellow country men, coming under attack, they will defend them.

Re:Don't blame em

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is losing market share in China big time. This was before America declared economic war on them. Expect it to get worse from here.
Lots of Chinese products aren't safe, true. But many are first class. Chinese can pick and choose.

Please don't preface your bullshit as "American"

[Anonymous Coward]

"With the help of Huaweis equipment, China would displace Silicon Valley as the worlds innovation center." - Frankly you are making Americans look stupider than we even are on average, Jesus that's dumb on every level lol.

As if Huawei were even China's most important tech export? Retarded even on that level alone. I'm glad you put your name on that so I can read anything else you say with this as a preface, wow.

Duh!

[p51d007]

Commie China, with the help of Google, had AI, cameras, social media scores and what not. You think those that have a little more freedom in China, are going to screw that up, by purchasing anything other that a 100% Chinese brand? Even though the iPhones are made in China, most Chinese will buy from local merchants, because they don't want to be "shamed".

Re:Duh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Commie China

so a country filled with entrepreneurs and capitalists is "commie"

this from a country where the government owns liquor stores and regulates production of dairy

could you be more clueless?

Re:Duh!

[Rick Zeman]

Commie China

so a country filled with entrepreneurs and capitalists is "commie"

You're right; the OP phrased that badly. "Commie" implies a political philosophy besides "pissant, power-hungry, murdering mother fuckers."

It stands up because it a secret?

[Anonymous Coward]

It stands up but it's secret so we can't tell you why...
You have no trouble believing that logic?
Of course you believe, as you are paid to promote certain 'ideas' on here.
No one else will get to see the evidence, but you 'just know' it is true. Based on what exactly? Your willingness to believe and parrot numerous lies on just about every topic you post about?

You have no credibility whatsoever to make those claims WindBourne.
You are just full of shit as always.

Re:It stands up because it a secret?

[Anonymous Coward]

Caffineted bacon/Crimson Tsunami. You are a Gutless lying wonder like always.

Windbourne .

Brain Drain...

[wolfheart111]

Thats what happens when u try to ban xmas... :)

Has anyone shown Huawei has done something

[fredrated]

wrong, or are we trashing this company from speculation and conjecture?

Re:Has anyone shown Huawei has done something

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like a lot of smoke and mirrors right now. Probably all started by apple. Sound like something out of apples dirty trick playbook. Like ebook collusion.

Re:Has anyone shown Huawei has done something

[Anonymous Coward]

Huawei are stupid. This was on the SWOT radar for ages. In Australia they hired some ex-politicians hoping that would hose things down. That failed. so far, they have stayed quiet on their compeditors defects and back doors. Imagine if the same clains were applied to an Israelli product.

Now if they set up a US based clearing house AND a Swiss/German technical firmware clearing house. then slanderous statements must go away. As they have not,the nasty slander will stay.

Re:Has anyone shown Huawei has done something

[Anonymous Coward]

Has Huawei specifically done anything wrong? That's unclear. Has Meng done something wrong, well, the claim is bank fraud in that she purposely misrepresented Huaweis relation to a company that was doing business with Iran. That misrepresentation caused HSBC (I believe) to be involved in an ITAR violation. Since HSBC was doing due diligence in trying to follow ITAR rules, this makes her actions legally bank fraud.

General rule, if you're going to break the laws of a country, don't travel to places that have extradition agreements with that country. Especially if the law you're breaking is also a crime in the country you're traveling to. Many countries will not extradite you if what you're accused of is not also a crime in that country. Canada has export control laws very similar to the US, and had she done the same thing with a Canadian bank, it would have been a violation of Canadian export laws.

This whole thing really has nothing to do with Huawei itself, but I guess trolls and useful idiots are spinning it that way. It's really just about her specifically. The stuff with Huawei and recommendations against buying them is separate. The US has recommended against buying them for undisclosed reasons, though they have been publicly caught sending large amounts of user data back to China, and that may be part of the US' undisclosed reasons.

Re:Has anyone shown Huawei has done something

[thegarbz]

Let's face it. This is China, we instinctively know Huawei is doing things wrong. But make sure you keep looking at China, the ones we are pointing at. Just keep looking that way. Those damn spies. No no don't look at Snoden leaks, CHINA it's all about China. No CIA? What's that? NSA? Is that a football league? CHINA!!!!

Re:Has anyone shown Huawei has done something

[Anonymous Coward]

its funny you call them countries, the correct word is colonies

No "Pie" for my S8?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, this IS an on-topic post.
    I've watched as Samsung carefully avoided making the newest iteration of Android available for my S8. They've covered most of the older ones that can successfully run it, and rolling it out to the newer ones, but nothing for the S8.
  There's a coupla features in the new Android I'd really like to have, if they do as they claim. S8 won't see it tho.
Add to that the fact that the battery in an S8 isn't replaceable, mine's already near death, and I'm absolutely done with Samsung. We'll have no more Samsung products of any type in our home.
    I got Huawei phones for family this xmas, ---- Samsung & fruit. Samsung can KMA.

Android vs IOS

[Anonymous Coward]

The Chinese don't give a fuck, as long as their phone runs WeChat...

Great news!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck apple. They are a disgusting cancer in the tech industry.

Just like Canadian steel, it's national security..

[Anonymous Coward]

You're more full of it than usual.

And if an American company did this...

[Chas]

You'd see the anti-trust investigations hit in stretches of time measurable in micro-fractions of a picosecond.

Spectrum ISP users: Beware CHINA's modems

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & I DISCOVERED MODEMS CHINA MAKES EVEN AN ISP CAN'T GET a LOGON INTO FOR DNS CHANGE (but China can) https://slashdot.org/comments.... & they're 'spectrum' rebranded cases that are really TECHNICOLOR modems instead (that you & EVEN YOUR ISP can't get log onto to do things like turning off uPnP, change your DNS, create a portfiltering range (which is what a GOOD MODEM allows, many to MOST don't in their settings)).

* I almost GUARANTEE the Chinese told the spectrum execs "look, save '$' on your modems you distribute to users & change $10/month rental on their bills too - instead of paying $20/modem, we will give you there for $1/modem"

(STUPID, short-sighted idiots & THEY DIDN'T EVEN CHECK THE MODEMS for ability to logon to change those things I list above for BETTER SECURITY!)

* SLASHDOT EDITORS KEEP DELETING THIS POST (I have screenshots & bookmarks BY DOZENS to prove it - SOMETHING is VERY "FISHY" here...).

APK

P.S.=> This is NO JOKE (especially when your ISP tech folks can't access their OWN modems they distribute to users & for me it was from L1->L2->NOC I spoke w/ that couldn't & THEY ALL AGREED I was right & this IS A PROBLEM) - for all we know, it can turn the ENTIRE SPECTRUM NETWORK into a BOTNET (routers & modems ARE getting attacked + have been shown to have security flaws OR bad setups) to take down other things... apk

Bad value proposition...

[Rick Zeman]

...trading in an iPhone for a Huawei would be like my boss telling me "Ditch that BMW and we'll help you buy a replacement Yugo."

Uhh, I'll decline that "generous" offer.

Must be why lying comes so naturally to you

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked with the intelligence community and am aware of what has happened long ago, and still hear things today.

Explains why you think you are such a good liar .
Pro tip - stick to lying about things people can't check and claiming secrets. Some one might believe you.
Your constant lies about easily checked facts just make you look like a gullible rube. Just parroting what you have been told to say by your secret friends.
Didn't they teach you anything in spy training?

Yep Angela Merkel wanted her phone tapped

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep Angela Merkel wanted her phone tapped...
Would that NUMBER be ZERO? America has created far more terrorists than it has caught.

PS: learn what treason is moron.

Look out the scary Chinese are coming

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that 1 time the Chinese blew up a wedding party?
Or was it a hospital?
Wait it was both... and happened multiple times...
Sorry I meant to say America not China, silly me.

Re:Look out the scary Chinese are coming

[Anonymous Coward]

The Chinese government is responsible for killing more Chinese than any other entity on earth without even considering their terrible environmental policies, I'm talking straight out they killed you because you said or did something the government doesn't like. Millions of people there have been sent to real modern day reeducation camps just in the last decade. The cultural revolution and other misguided grand ideas from China have turned into global disasters with few equals in all of human history. You are either ignorant of the truth or are being facetious.

America makes mistakes and almost universally admits to their many huge fuck ups, that's why you know about them and can list them. China doesn't own their mistakes, they hide them and they have a lot of huge mistakes hiding in plain site like how they treat the people of Tibet where the Chinese Liberation Army is accused of genocide, killing an estimated 1.2 million Tibetans since 1950. The US mistakenly bombs hospitals accepting responsibility by confessing and trying to make amends with the victims while China quietly erases an ancient culture off the planet hoping nobody notices. Its not hard to find evil in any reasonably sized population of people however the problem with China is that the Chinese government never sees any evil in its own doings.

Re:Look out the scary Chinese are coming

[Anonymous Coward]

How many non-Chinese has China killed? How many non-Americans has America killed?
It's not even a competition, America is massively out in front.
1 point for China.

How many Chinese do Chinese people kill and lock up? How many Americans does America kill and lock up?
Again it's not even close. Even with 1 million in 'reeducation camps' America still locks up more. How many people in American prisons get raped? How many in these 'reeducation camps'? When people get out from either, who is better off?
Another point for China.

How many random civilians in each country kill others from that country? Again it's not even a competition, America wins hands down.
China 1 point again.

You want to bring in environmental policies? Americans per person make twice the CO2 as Chinese people.
Who has stronger restrictions on coal plants? China. Who uses the most electricity per person? America.
Who uses the most gas per person? America.
Who has the greater % of electric cars? China
Whose populatrion is increasing and whose is decreasing?
China wins again.

Who has brought more people out of poverty? Whose middle class is shrinking while the rich get richer and richer?

Which nation is full of religious wacko's?

Are you starting to understand? No of course not, your mind was made up back in the 50's. No amount of facts or evidence will change it now.

Remind me again -

[Anonymous Coward]

Remind me again - where is most Apple stuff made? China.

So the Chinese are going to stop buying stuff made in ... China. So they can buy stuff made in ... China.

I'm really confused.

Boycotting

[stooo]

Boycotting Apple is only the beginning.

In unrelated news, I eat apples every day.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Your lies are numerous WindBourne

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone knows it. Everyone knows you falsely accuse anyone pointing out your lies also.

Standard WindTroll bullshit.

like how you heard bird flu was killing millions

[Anonymous Coward]

Like how you heard bird flu was killing millions in China and it would be a big story any day now when the cover-up failed?

That was months ago. What happened?
Yes, more fear and lies from the king of fear and likes.
You just lie and bullshit at every turn WindBourne. You've been doing it for years.