Samsung Phone Users Perturbed To Find They Can't Delete Facebook (bloomberg.com)

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Samsung Phone Users Perturbed To Find They Can't Delete Facebook (bloomberg.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Wednesday January 9, 2019 @01:00AM from the worst-nightmares dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Nick Winke, a photographer in the Pacific northwest, was perusing internet forums when he came across a complaint that alarmed him: On certain Samsung Electronics Co. smartphones, users aren't allowed to delete the Facebook app. Winke bought his Samsung Galaxy S8, an Android-based device that comes with Facebook's social network already installed, when it was introduced in 2017. He has used the Facebook app to connect with old friends and to share pictures of natural landscapes and his Siamese cat -- but he didn't want to be stuck with it. He tried to remove the program from his phone, but the chatter proved true -- it was undeletable. He found only an option to "disable," and he wasn't sure what that meant.

A Facebook spokesperson said the disabled version of the app acts like it's been deleted, so it doesn't continue collecting data or sending information back to Facebook. But there's rarely communication with the consumer about the process. The Menlo Park, California-based company said whether the app is deletable or not depends on various pre-install deals Facebook has made with phone manufacturers, operating systems and mobile operators around the world over the years, including Samsung. Facebook, the world's largest social network, wouldn't disclose the financial nature of the agreements, but said they're meant to give the consumer "the best" phone experience right after opening the box.

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Don't sugarcoat the turd by Opportunist · 2019-01-09 01:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

The best user experience is by definition that which is what the user wants to do. And this is obviously not it.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
1. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by grep+-v+'.*'+* · 2019-01-09 01:18 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  True, but like the article said, hit DISABLE not DELETE. You have a complicated device that only looks simple -- if you don't understand something, RTFM (but like where?) until you're comfortable with things.
  
  The FB app is being kept there for your own safety and convenience -- why if it's *not* there you'd soon be ostracised by your friends. That is, the few you might have left.
  
  Of course this is all bogus -- it takes up "zero" user space since it's kept in ROM space, and that's of course why it's unable to be deleted. (Unless you root.) But the day after the phone's released it'll need an update that lives in user data space, so all they're doing of course it forcing the app available if you would like to click on it, on purpose or by mistake. Besides, FB pays the vendor/provider so you've saved Big Bucks (entire tenths of pennies!) by having it there.
  
  That's a really nice phone you've got there, shame if something wereN'T to happen to it.
  
  And honest, have you talked to users? They want WHAT they want WHEN they want it HOW they want it, and when you give it to them When they want How they wanted it oops they've changed their mind and now want something else.
  
  --
  If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
2. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-09 01:29 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  This is wrong at multiple levels. If it transmits anything back to FB then that is a violation.
  Its stealing space/memory and the OS must be crippled in some way to prevent file by file deletion. Any services running in the background?
  It cant update if it does not know the revision or language settings
  Lets hope the EU stomps on yet another secret agreement where no anti-compeditive documentation has been lodged. FB shareholders should be upset too. Number of disabled images needs to go into the annual report.
3. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by JaredOfEuropa · 2019-01-09 01:31 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If a company mentions "best experience", run like hell from their products. Little known fact: "best experience" is Mandarin for "your data is ours".
  
  I wish these companies would behave like in the old days, when manufacturing consumer electronics meant just that: creating the best device in a certain price range, and making your money by selling it to consumers on its own merits. Sure, even back then companies tried to create silos, and some built tech into their devices to protect their other interests in the content business, but that's nothing like today. The other day I read an article on LinkedIn about data being the new gold, and boy they weren't kidding: everyone seems to want to get in on the game these days. And if FB has to pay Samsung to make their data harvesting apps preinstalled and indelible, then you can be sure that Samsung do not have your best interests in mind by allowing this.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
4. Re: Don't sugarcoat the turd by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2019-01-09 02:27 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account.
  Wanna bet?
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
5. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by drinkypoo · 2019-01-09 02:28 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Of course this is all bogus -- it takes up "zero" user space since it's kept in ROM space,
  No, it is NOT. It is kept in Flash. Part of the flash is desigated as belonging to the system, and it is kept there. But that flash partition is like any other partition, it can be of arbitrary size. And it has to be bigger to accommodate additional apps, and that means there's less space available in the user partition.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
6. Re: Don't sugarcoat the turd by Ol+Olsoc · 2019-01-09 02:36 · Score: 2
  
  It is funny that people act like you are either agreeing to share and sharing all your data with a company or nothing at all. So predictable. You can have a Facebook account and not share data with Facebook. You can have a tiny little Facebook app installed with no account.
  Does Facebook have paid shills now?
  Facebook is tracking you even if you don't have an account or an application.
  Don't believe me? Try this:
  Have a fresh shiny new account with no memberships anywhere.
  Install a script blocker. One that you can look up which scripts are being blocked
  Go to some popular website
  Now take that list and see just who is being blocked. You'll have to look them up. Google has the decency to identify themselves, Facebook hides multiple cryptically named trackers, often several to a page. Whois is your friend. Or not.
  Enjoy.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
7. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by Opportunist · 2019-01-09 03:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The friends I have don't have Facebook. That's one of the reasons they are my friends.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
8. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by Z00L00K · 2019-01-09 03:11 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, the OS isn't "enhanced", it's "bloated" with unnecessary software that may even be a security hazard.
  
  --
  If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
9. Re: Don't sugarcoat the turd by JackieBrown · 2019-01-09 03:17 · Score: 2
  
  Yes - because anyone that has a different viewpoint must be a paid shill.
  And the topic was about the Facebook app. Not sure how your script blocker and going to the web app has anything to do with the discussion.
10. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by ctilsie242 · 2019-01-09 04:05 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  If you can get a Samsung phone with an unlockable bootloader (Sorry, no Snapdragon CPU phones, the main ones in the US are unlockable), the best thing to do is unlock the bootloader, and install a custom ROM or LineageOS. From there, you don't need to worry.
  At the minimum, a rooted OS, so you can have a Linux firewall block all outgoing crap from junkware apps is a must.
11. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by Gr8Apes · 2019-01-09 04:16 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  or just buy an iPhone, and don't worry about all this FB crap.
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
12. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by fahrbot-bot · 2019-01-09 05:19 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  In December, I received a mobile data alert from Verizon that we only had 1 GB left on my data plan. This wasn't surprising since I had been commuting via train to downtown Chicago and had spent about an hour each way on YouTube for a week. What WAS surprising was when I checked what had been using the data, Facebook had used more than DOUBLE the amount of data than ALL OTHER APPS COMBINED, including YouTube. I don't check Facebook during the workday either.
  There's a per-app setting, (under Settings->Apps->Data Usage->[app] -- on Kit Kat anyway) to "Restrict Background Data" that disables background data on mobile networks for that app. The app can then only use mobile networks for data while running in the foreground (ie: you're actively using it) or when connected via WiFi. It's an OS setting so the app can't ignore it.
  
  --
  It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
13. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by srmalloy · 2019-01-09 05:46 · Score: 2
  
  In some sense, it's the opposite; the OS is, in fact, enhanced. Preinstalled apps are included in the system image.
  "Enhancing" the OS is like Microsoft making the Windows help functionality use the IE rendering engine to display help files, making it necessary to have IE installed as part of the operating system. Nothing about Facebook is integrated into Android, such that removing Facebook breaks Android. It's a standalone app that is pre-installed on your device because Samsung made a deal with Facebook.
14. Re: Don't sugarcoat the turd by zilym · 2019-01-09 06:15 · Score: 2
  
  FYI, it's not just Samsung devices. My Sprint Slate 8" tablets don't let me completely delete Facebook either. I've removed it as far as possible and then disabled it, but even still, somehow sometimes Facebook manages to re-enable and update itself later on from time to time. Very irritating!
15. Re:Don't sugarcoat the turd by drinkypoo · 2019-01-09 12:46 · Score: 2
  
  Right, but it's essentially a read-only region of flash. Even if you update the built-in applications, it will revert back to the original version if you do a system wipe.
  I have yet to meet an Android device that uses an inherently ro filesystem, they just mount ro. If you root, you can remount rw and make changes. This may have become more fiddly in recent Android versions, I haven't checked in.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Not even close to a new issue by Iwastheone · 2019-01-09 01:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

My MotoE4 came preloaded with FB App Installer, FB App Manager, Messenger, Snapchat, Amazon, Amazon Prime, Amazon Music & NativeDropboxAgent. All get disabled/Force Stopped, then after a reboot or a few months go by and they all become magically enabled again
My car's radio is always set to one channel by AynRandDuran · 2019-01-09 01:13 · Score: 2

Ford decided my best driver experience is to only listen to a pop radio station loaded with advertisements and very little music, so they actually didn't even put a tuning knob on. Imagine anyone getting to pre-determine how to use your *phone*, but you.
1. Re:My car's radio is always set to one channel by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-09 03:36 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  why does Ford get fuckall to say in my business in the first place
  If I owe them money, fine. If I own something outright, guess who has say? Guess who can modify, mutate, and even destroy it as he pleases?
Dealbreaker by rlauzon · 2019-01-09 01:13 · Score: 2

I've made it clear to my phone vendor that "selling" me a phone where I can't remove the spy-ware is a dealbreaker. If they won't sell me the phone I want without the built-in spy-ware, I will take my business elsewhere.
1. Re: Dealbreaker by slack_justyb · 2019-01-09 03:52 · Score: 2
  
  Given that the millennial "i"-gen are quitting Facebook in droves, I think the future majority populous wants a phone without Facebook on it
  That doesn't kill Facebook. It might kill the app, but we allow these kinds of large companies to form in the US and thus, they hedge their eventual demise on whatever it was they originally started with. I cannot count the number of folks who sat there giving the middle finger to Facebook only for them to then go to something like Instagram, which is owned by Facebook. Or some people wanting to warn others about the dangers of Facebook and privacy, only to spin up a website with ad revenue sharing with Facebook or a Facebook partner.
  So we kill the Facebook app from being pre-installed means insanely little. Facebook has diversified so much, that whatever their leading product de jure is, that's what will get pre-installed. And hell at this point there's a good chance they won't need anything installed. There's content sharing programs that vendors are more than happy to join in on to gain access to the vast wealth of information that Facebook has already collected. So it's just a matter of your phone maker agreeing to share SMS/Location/whatever else out the door with Facebook, no app needed of course you can opt out. But that's even less true for websites that have the Facebook pixel on them, Facebook is so interwoven in the Internet, going somewhere that doesn't have the pixel or a pixel for one of their partners is the exceptional case.
  The idealism that everyone has about "let's kill Facebook" is cute, but it is woefully ignoring how absolutely massive the magnitude of wealth of information that Facebook has, that everyone on this planet wants. You can boycott Facebook till you are blue in the face and rise repeat for all 7+ billion people on this planet and Facebook will sit there and grin at you taking absolutely little to no impact on their true source of money. It is only if and when governments begins to regulate the collection of information and put people's privacy as the default legal option as opposed to opt-out BS that Facebook will ever suffer any kind of shift in their stance.
  Folks thinking deleting Facebook gets rid of the problem are in for a surprise. Deleting the app just makes you less obvious of the underlying issue and solves zero percent of the problem. So let's all be honest with ourselves here. "Facebook ain't going nowhere", everyone needs to either get used to their privacy being meaningless or get serious about making governments press the ever love hell out of this and other companies that collect data on people.
Not really shocking by LubosD · 2019-01-09 01:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

This isn't really shocking. If the app is part of the system image, then the app cannot be normally deleted, because the system image is read-only and only touched during system updates. Disabling the app DOES have the same effect as deleting it, except it doesn't free up any storage space.
1. Re:Not really shocking by Drethon · 2019-01-09 01:28 · Score: 2
  
  So you assume...hard to say what disabled does to an app thats a read-only part of the system image where the 3rd party has paid for this.
  Android is an open platfrom so you *think* you know what its doing, but once it becomes a closed platform like on a Samsung device, assumptions must be made and cannot be validated.
  And what do you assume deleting an app where the 3rd party has paid for the app to be on the phone? Just because you *think* the app was deleted, can you truly say it was? If you want to be paranoid (or realistic, all a matter of perspective), it can be applied evenly, not just to a few cases.
2. Re: Not really shocking by TuballoyThunder · 2019-01-09 01:46 · Score: 2
  
  While Android is open source, there is no guarantee that Samsung has not modified the source to change the behavior on their phones. Bottom line, either you trust them or you don't.
3. Re:Not really shocking by fustakrakich · 2019-01-09 01:55 · Score: 2
  
  What do they actually own when they buy a smartphone?
  The box
  
  --
  “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
4. Re:Not really shocking by Tomahawk · 2019-01-09 02:38 · Score: 2
  
  The source code for Android is available as most of it is open source. So you can download a copy and prove it for yourself.
  https://source.android.com/
5. Re:Not really shocking by _merlin · 2019-01-09 02:43 · Score: 2
  
  Only if you can prove that the source compiles to the image on your phone. Do any of the handset vendors have reproducible builds so you can verify that what you compile produces the same firmware image they signed? If not, and if there's any closed source "secret source", you can't completely trust it.
yup, i am a galaxy 9+ by FudRucker · 2019-01-09 01:21 · Score: 2

and i can not delete the Facebook and Facebook App Manager, i can only disable them, i would feel a lot better about my phone if i could completely remove all of that facebook kludge completely, if Samsung does not fix this so i can remove them i wont be buying another Samsung phone when it comes time to getting a new phone, i would research android phones and find one that is simply pure android without any third party apps welded in that can not be removed,

--
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Er? by cascadingstylesheet · 2019-01-09 01:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

They've just now discovered preinstalled non-removable apps??
Yes, they suck. They are also why your phone is a little cheaper (at least theoretically) than it otherwise would be.
Difference between Google and Samsung. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2019-01-09 01:38 · Score: 2

You are not a user, you are the product for both Google and Samsung.
But, in the case of Samsung, you need to pay for the privilege of being their product.

--
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
I wonder how that plays with Not-Facebook-Members by Sique · 2019-01-09 01:41 · Score: 4, Interesting

As I am not on Facebook (never was), any enabled Facebook-App means that the phone is sending my data to a company I don't have a contract with. And I don't see that there is any agreement between the company and me signed or otherwise agreed upon, that they are entitled to my data, and they didn't present me with any list of things they are intending to do with my data.

--
.sig: Sique *sigh*
Dupe by thegarbz · 2019-01-09 01:47 · Score: 2

I don't know why we are duping these articles but I'm sure this was posted in 2009 not 2019.
Like seriously: User suddenly discovers something that has been the same and unchanged for 10 years. Instant outrage!.
Just disable the app like a normal person and like every Android system has allowed since like version 5. The default "Facebook" install on these phones is a shell app that takes up almost no space. You actually need to download some +100MB from the Playstore for it to even work in the first place.
Not just Samsung by pezezin · 2019-01-09 01:51 · Score: 2

I recently bought an Asus Zenfone 5Q. Today I tried to uninstall Facebook, and I found out the best you can do is uninstall all the updates and disable the app, but it's impossible to fully remove it.
Same thing on LG G6 by Predathar · 2019-01-09 02:00 · Score: 2

I just checked on my phone, a LG G6 and Facebook came preinstalled... no option to delete, just DISABLE...
Shadow Profiles make this moot by OzPeter · 2019-01-09 02:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

Given that FB has been accused of making shadow profiles of people not on FB, does deleting the App from a phone really achieve anything?
No .. I am not saying the outrage is not justified, just that is misdirected.
http://theconversation.com/sha...

--
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Re:Gotta love the doublespeak by thegarbz · 2019-01-09 02:06 · Score: 4, Informative

disablement is not 'acting' like its deleted.
Except it is in every way. Prevents the app from running, prevents it from displaying, and prevents any other app from accessing it, the app being part of a read only image and therefore unable to be physically deleted. In addition the app shipped with a phone is a non-functioning shell taking up a few MB. It is not Facebook, and Facebook itself downloads from the Play store the first time you start the phone. Using the disabling function deletes this download and prevents it from re-occuring.
So yes, it acts in every way like its deleted.
Re:Not even close to a new issue by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-09 02:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

It is only "news" now because there is an active movement to "delete Facebook" and some normal users who don't know about Android system partition vs, user partition and don't understand how Samsung craps up the system partition with undeletable apps have now discovered that they cannot participate in the "delete Facebook" movement.
Re:Same as every other pre-installed app by _merlin · 2019-01-09 02:39 · Score: 2

On the Galaxy S3 none of the pre-installed apps could be removed, but on the Galaxy S8 I found that Google Duo, Facebook, Instagram, Flipboard and a number of other pre-installed things actually could be removed. I don't have as many disabled apps as I used to on my S3 - just Chrome, Game Launcher, Gmail, Google Play Store, and YouTube - since my S8 allowed all the other obnoxious things to be uninstalled. I have Telstra Australia firmware, and it's the SM-G950F variant.
Re:Not even close to a new issue by Ol+Olsoc · 2019-01-09 02:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

My feelings exactly. I have had a Galaxy S6 since it was first released (nearly 4 years ago) and have never been able to delete the Facebook app (or some other apps, for that matter). Not sure why this is somehow news now.
I see. The old" I have seen this, so it must never ever be reported ever again!" The geeks version of "Stay off my Lawn!"
Sorry Anonymous Coward, it's pretty obvious from the posts in this thread that a lot of people didn't know, and it is a good thing for them to know.
In the been there, done that category, this is not unusual on PCs either. A simple program uninstall usually leaves a hellava lot of debris behind. Uninstalling say, Microsoft Office seems just like removing the icons.
Try using a product like Revo, uninstall some program, and select deep scan for leftovers. (don't restart after the program's uninstaller finishes) then look at what the deep scan shows you. Some programs just leave registry items, some pretty much everything.
I do not know if there is a comparable product for phones. There should be.
And since you already know everything, this is not for you. It is for people who might not know yet.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Sigh by ledow · 2019-01-09 02:52 · Score: 2

"the best" phone experience right after opening the box...
would include "Do you want me to install Facebook for you? Yes/No" and if I click No then it doesn't do anything at all and leaves no traces or processes around whatsoever.
Hell, "Would you like me to install a bunch of common apps (e.g. Facebook, Snapchat, Whatsapp, etc.) for you now?" would be absolutely fine - user-friendly, helpful for newbies, and not obstructive to power users.
If Samsung did that, instead of forcing apps that I will NEVER use on my phone (including all the Samsung apps, not to mention things like Flipboard or whatever it is, Office suites and all kinds), I'd actually like them MORE and recommend them MORE and get them MORE customers and money than they will ever get in goodwill gestures from Facebook etc. for doing so.
Honestly, it's not your phone Samsung. Feel free to suggest things, but let me even turn off suggestions.
Re:Duh, another Slashdot non-story by Ol+Olsoc · 2019-01-09 03:16 · Score: 2

Same, this is not news,
Consider that some people might not know this yet.
I've known that Facebook and some others are pretty cancerous for years. That doesn't mean that I refuse to tell anyone about it because I happen to know about it. Y'all need to understand that there are more people out there than yourselves.

It has been like that since I know smartphone. How can this be new?!?!?!?
I don't recall anyone saying this is something that was implemented yesterday. It is a story about how a person was surprised to find out about the practice. So he's telling people about it. Many people who don't already know about the practice. It's news to them.
Do you think that you should be the final arbiter of what should or should not be reported?
Are you the first person that ever knew this - if not, there probably a lot of people before you who knew it, and they never should have told you - old news, you know, wasting the intelligent people's time.

It is also the reason I buy unlocked phones, my latest one, Nokia 6.1, is an Android One phone and no bloatware installed.
How is buying an unlocked phone even news any more? Practice what you preach. Meanwhile, I just file this under a chance to give some folks some knowledge. If they already know, they can scroll on by.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Score one for closed source by Enigma2175 · 2019-01-09 03:25 · Score: 2

Yeah, on my iPhone I just get constant reminders to give my credit card numbers to ApplePay or buy iCloud storage so it's not third parties trying get my money, it's the phone manufacturer doing it directly. Along with the bullshit "unsupported device" messages that come up now when trying to use a headphone adapter (which wouldn't even be needed if they had kept the jack), their moneygrubbing behavior has caused me to resolve never to give Apple another cent. I won't need another phone for a couple of years but I guess I should start looking now, it sounds like it's going to be a PITA to find one that's not constantly marketing to me and spying on me.

--
Enigma
It's not just facebook by guacamole · 2019-01-09 03:29 · Score: 2

My older Samsung devices came preinstalled with Evernote, Netflix, Flipboard, NYTimes, and others. And while it was possible to disable most of these (not completely uninstall though), the Evernote could not be even disabled . Thank you Samsung.
Interesting play on words.. by sycodon · 2019-01-09 03:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

If it "Acts" like it's been deleted, then that suggests it is actually running and therefor able to, "act".
Is this an unfortunate and awkward statement on their part, or is it a deliberate effort to suggest the app is inert while being truthful about that fact the app is still running?
Don't put anything past the lawyers.

--
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
1. Re:Interesting play on words.. by Solandri · 2019-01-09 06:45 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The app is inert if it's disabled. It doesn't run. (Disabling it also reverts it to the original version which came with the device, which is actually a bit troubling since although it's supposed to be a space-saving move, it implies that if you don't disable it your device actually wastes storage space on two copies of the app. On some devices, the original version is just a placeholder about 8 kB in size.)
  
  The problem is another app - Facebook App Manager or whatever they're calling it now. It's responsible for keeping Facebook's suite of apps updated. You're supposed to be able to disable it, but on some devices it can't be disabled. I disabled the Facebook app on my Motorola phone, but couldn't disable Facebook App Manager. I found it's activity spiking one day, then noticed that the Facebook had been enabled and updated. So I disabled the Facebook app again, only to find it re-enabled and updated again a few days later. I had been being lazy and hadn't rooted this phone yet, but that's what finally got me to put aside the time one evening to root it. Both are gone for good now.