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Amazon Dash Buttons Ruled Illegal In Germany (gizmodo.com)
Amazon Dash buttons have been ruled illegal in Germany for making it too easy to buy Amazon products. Germany consumer advocacy group, Verbraucherzentrale NRW, "complained that Amazon's terms enable the company to switch out an ordered product with something else, and the buttons break laws protecting shoppers from buying things they are not fully informed about," reports Gizmodo. From the report: At first the wifi-connected buttons enabled users to quickly buy basic home goods and groceries -- like detergent, paper towels, macaroni and cheese, and bottled water. But Amazon has since added dozens more, from Slim Jims to Red Bull to Calvin Kline underwear. "We are always open to innovation. But if innovation means that the consumer is put at a disadvantage and price comparisons are made difficult then we fight that," Wolfgang Schuldzinski, leader of Verbraucherzentrale NRW, said to in a public statement.
The Munich court has sided with the organization, and ruled that the Dash buttons break consumer protection rules. The Verbraucherzentrale NRW statement suggests Amazon can't appeal the decision. But an Amazon spokesperson told Gizmodo that the company believes the button and its app don't violate German law, and Amazon is going to appeal. "The decision is not only against innovation, it also prevents customers from making an informed choice for themselves about whether a service like Dash Button is a convenient way for them to shop," the spokesperson said.
The Munich court has sided with the organization, and ruled that the Dash buttons break consumer protection rules. The Verbraucherzentrale NRW statement suggests Amazon can't appeal the decision. But an Amazon spokesperson told Gizmodo that the company believes the button and its app don't violate German law, and Amazon is going to appeal. "The decision is not only against innovation, it also prevents customers from making an informed choice for themselves about whether a service like Dash Button is a convenient way for them to shop," the spokesperson said.
The authors formulation suggests that he thinks Amazon's dash was just "making it easy" for people to buy stuff. The same could be said about the noble gambling industry, which also only makes it as easy as possible for people to give away their money. And yet, regulations regarding such "offers" exist in most parts of the world.
How is pushing a Dash button different than electing a politican? You make your selection, expecting one thing, but you might get something different, but close. Maybe the German courts should outlaw politicians, too.
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Not being able to separate what's best for the German people from Nazism eh? How about you petition trump to build a wall on the northern boarder too. When you're economy collapses we don't need you as refugees.
Why are they unable to create their own popular online shop?
For that matter, the entire EU seems to be lacking a proper Amazon competitor. I am genuinely puzzled as to why this is the case. There are some bright minds posting on Slashdot - does anybody have a theory for why Europe cannot seem to come up with their own online shopping portal?
Amazon have multiple branches in Europe made of up entire European companies they bought out for competing against them. Being headquatered and registered in Europe, what makes you thing Amazon Europe is in anyway American?
Well, with 2.7E+9 Euro revenue per year online retailer "Otto" is certainly much smaller than Amazon, might be because they actually pay taxes, higher wages, and do not facilitate fraud and trafficking through some shady "marketplace" as successfully as Amazon does.
Pushing a button in a screenless device does not show the current price of the item you pretend to buy, which may differ from the price it used to be when you acquired the button. And if you do not have elephant memory, you do not even remember the original price.
Seems like a fair ruling to me.
If you need a dash button there's something seriously wrong with you.
The problem is, the user can't agree to this, without actually being shown what they are supposed to agree with. The relevant eCommerce laws say that the full and current price/ amount must be shown to the user, with an explicit acknowledgement that they are now ordering this quantity of items for this specified cost.
This button would be legal if it were equipped with an eInk display showing the current price/ quantity (and the legal fine print making it obvious that hitting the button will order it now).
Thanks for the explanation (seriously). After hearing that Amazon can substitute other items and also that the price can fluctuate, I get why the Germans aren't keen on this.. I don't have any Dash buttons, but if I can't be sure I'm going to get what I want, at a price I know about beforehand, I don't think I'll be getting any..
Please do try to read TFS first. Yeah yeah I muse be new yere.
Now after going through all that effort and work, apparently that means the person didn't actually want the product
From TFS:
"complained that Amazon's terms enable the company to switch out an ordered product with something else,
see?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
There is no power an government can't take over citizens that fluffernutter won't defend.
Yeah enfocing consumer potection laws == govpocalypse
personally, I prefer to live in a civilised wold where there are rules and regulations that keep it civilised. If I ever get tired of pesk laws, I'll up sticks and move to the Libertarian Paradise of the Congo where there's no government to interfere with, well, anything really.
What's interesting is you're not objecting to the massive amount of power amazon has been granted by the government with its limited liability protection. It seems your libertarianism only really swings one way and is really more corpratism.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If I buy a button to buy X and they ship me Y, they're committing fraud
Sure and if pigs had wheels they would be a wagon. WTF does that have to do with a button for X makes them ship you X?
Maybe you should educate yourself about the things you're commenting about before doing that.
If I have a Dash button for a specific product, and the product is out, Amazon reserves the right to send me a similar product instead.
If the proce for the product rose between the time when I bought the Dash button and the time I press it to order the product, Amazon will charge me the new (potentially higher) price.
Both of these things break German consumer protection laws.
What you missed is that Europe has strong laws for "distance selling", i.e. buying stuff on the internet.
In a physical shop you can see and examine the goods. On the internet all you get is a stock photo of the item and a promise that it will match the description. If it doesn't you can return it. I'm not sure about Germany but in the UK you have 2 weeks to change your mind and Amazon pays the return postage. You only need return the item, self-destructing packaging etc doesn't get them off the hook.
It goes further than that though. In this case the problem is that by pressing the Dash button you indicate you want a particular item at a particular price you were offered once. Amazon can substitute whatever it likes for that item and charge you whatever price it has today. Amazon abuses that by slowly ramping up prices and substituting inferior stuff.
The ruling is basically saying that Amazon needs to stop altering the deal after the customer has accepted it. They could probably fix it just by emailing the customer with price changes and subs ahead of time, with a 24 hour grace period for people who pushed the button before seeing the mail.
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Big corp can financially and massively comes with scheme to give the false impression or not deliver what is expected. Joe public does not have the resource to either document/study/understand every such a scheme and their result, neither the financial power to fight corp. Thus in all countries, SANE countries not beholden to do blow job to corp, there is a form of consumer protection. If you don't like it, too bad for you, most of us recognize why such laws are in places.
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That would be your problem.
I did read the summary, and the linked article, and the watch groups public complaint. They simply don't agree with each other.
The article correctly points out the problem. The watch groups lawsuit doesn't mention that, nor does the judges ruling. That is what makes it such a cluster fuck worth pointing out as such.
In fact I would be perfectly happy with having amazon clarifying the language of their terms.
As-is that implies you may one day press your "hefty trash bags" button and receive a set of toenail clippers or something.
In practice it has always meant that if you link to "hefty trash bags, 30 count, $9.49 from amazon wareshouse" that one day you may receive "hefty trash bags, 30 count, $8.99 from random seller"
Also in practice when my "pepperidge farm goldfish crackers, spicy pizza" button was pressed and apparently that flavor was discontinued, far from sending a random item, amazon emailed saying the order wasn't placed due to unavailability.
Sure, they most certainly suggested the other flavors of that brand as well as similar brands to re-link the button to. But it was a very simple matter of me just not doing that.
Has anyone actually had a more expensive item ordered automatically as was implied can happen?
Because yea I can see the issue with that.
But the "issue" of getting a different product, which is really an issue of getting the same product from a different seller, clearly wasn't a problem enough to be bought up in court now was it.
It also wasn't enough of a problem for the court to actually make amazon stop doing on their website.
It also wasn't enough of a problem to have them reword their terms to state they wouldn't do that with the dash buttons, but instead they just outright banned the buttons all together.
So yes, the entire situation is stupidly hilarious.
The ruling was nonsensical, and the actual problems around the issue were not even bought up at the time as problems.
The free market is a failure. It fails because there aren't an infinite number of suppliers of products to give consumers the option to choose the perfect item they require from the perfect supplier. And also that there is no way for a consumer to get all the information required to make a perfectly informed decision.
Personally I welcome government regulations that stop me getting screwed over, because it means I can spend less time worrying about getting screwed over when I buy something and instead spend my time on something more interesting.
Remind of that the next time someone commits fraud against you.
It's funny. Consumer protection rights on sales apply at time of sale. They're not rights that can be remove through contract. Every press of the Dash button is a sale, so those consumer protection rights apply every press. The fact that you believe Amazon should and can interject at its own discretion different products or at different prices without specific consumer approval at each sale because of up front terms is honestly appalling to me; it fails the most basic aspects of "the meeting of the minds" relevant in any sort of exchange. The logic you use, if allowed, would allow *any* seller online to put up front terms that allows them to ship you anything they want for any price they want to charge. Amazon shouldn't be able to do this, even if the scope of the damage is likely minimal.
A fool and his money are easily parted. You have the literal stupidity to not want laws that might at least offer the capability of getting money returned for being scammed. Let me guess: you think Amazon will, out of the kindness of their heart, refund you the difference if they ever "accidentally" sending you a product 10x as expensive. Man, it must be great living in your fantasy world where companies and individual sellers aren't prowling online to take your money without delivering on what was promised.