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Should America Build a Virtual Border Wall? Or Just Crowdfund It... (chicagotribune.com)
As America's government faces its longest-ever shutdown over the president's demands for border wall funding, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has suggested "possible alternatives to a physical wall," according to one Silicon Valley newspaper:
Among the president's justifications for a wall is to stop drugs from coming into the United States, so Pelosi proposed spending "hundreds of millions of dollars" for technology to scan cars for drugs, weapons and contraband at the border. "The positive, shall we say, almost technological wall that can be built is what we should be doing," Pelosi, D-San Francisco, said during her weekly press conference.
That didn't go over well with Fight for the Future, a digital rights advocacy group that on Friday started a petition asking Democrats to drop plans for a "technological wall" that it says could threaten Fourth Amendment rights that guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. "Current border surveillance programs subject people to invasive and unconstitutional searches of their cell phones and laptops, location tracking, drone surveillance, and problematic watchlists," the group's petition says...
In December, the Department of Homeland Security's Office of the Inspector General released a report that showed searches of electronic devices at the border were up nearly 50 percent in 2017. The report also found that border agents were not always following standard operating procedures for searches, including failing to properly document such searches. In addition, information copied by agents were not always deleted as required.
The article also notes that Anduril Industries -- founded by Oculus Rift designer Palmer Luckey (and funded by Peter Thiel) -- is one of several companies already working on "a virtual border wall."
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Meanwhile, another 7,121 GoFundMe members have pledged $160,985 to a rival campaign raising money for ladders to climb over Trump's wall.
That didn't go over well with Fight for the Future, a digital rights advocacy group that on Friday started a petition asking Democrats to drop plans for a "technological wall" that it says could threaten Fourth Amendment rights that guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. "Current border surveillance programs subject people to invasive and unconstitutional searches of their cell phones and laptops, location tracking, drone surveillance, and problematic watchlists," the group's petition says...
In December, the Department of Homeland Security's Office of the Inspector General released a report that showed searches of electronic devices at the border were up nearly 50 percent in 2017. The report also found that border agents were not always following standard operating procedures for searches, including failing to properly document such searches. In addition, information copied by agents were not always deleted as required.
The article also notes that Anduril Industries -- founded by Oculus Rift designer Palmer Luckey (and funded by Peter Thiel) -- is one of several companies already working on "a virtual border wall."
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Meanwhile, another 7,121 GoFundMe members have pledged $160,985 to a rival campaign raising money for ladders to climb over Trump's wall.
AFAIK, the "wall" is supposed to be built outside of official border crossing points. "Official" border crossings have used x-ray or similar scanners since at least 2012; they probably check for radiation too.
https://www.cnet.com/news/dhs-...
I'm not actually in favor of a wall, but Nauseating Nancy Pelosi seems to be discussing an entirely different issue. What's the long-term solution? Fix the broken immigration system, issue an amount of guest-worker permits that's sufficient to meet demand for immigration.
If we're going to build a "wall" along the border, I'm not sure that either a wall or high-tech will do much. Anyone willing to cross a hundred miles of desert isn't going to be fazed by another obstacle that's surmountable. Want to patrol the more rugged parts of the border? First build a road or track along it, then use Border Patrol mounted on horseback combined with drones with IR cameras. The terrain is such that mounted troops are actually more effective than motor vehicles or walls.
Do you really want to fly when air traffic controllers are working without pay and probably even more stressed out than usual? That's how mistakes happen and mistakes get people killed.
Notice I'm not weeping for the "papers please" TSA jobsworths, but things like air traffic control, FAA inspections, FDA inspections, Dept of Ag, are actually useful and desirable.
i can't speak to the murder statistics, but most fentanyl comes by ship from China these days. Most heroin that comes from "down South" probably comes in trucks or by ship, commingled with legitimate cargo.
I guess we should just strike through that "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" crap, eh?
#DeleteChrome
How will a wall help with any of that? Most illegal immigration is the cumulative result of people overstaying visas. In other words entering through a port of entry and then just not leaving. Furthermore the rate of illegal immigration into the US has steadily declined over the years in total, and in particular from Mexico. Immigration from other non-North American countries has increased, but the overall rate seems to be declining.
This current so-called crisis in Tijuana has nothing to do with border walls or border security either. These are folks who will claim asylum at the port of entry. A giant wall across the border wouldn't change this situation.
Also, where will this wall be built? Are wall supporters ready to spend the money not only to build the wall but to buy the land? The vast majority of the land along the border is privately owned. Will the government just take the land? Steal it from Mexico? What about rivers? This doesn't seem to be very well thought out. Earmarking a huge amount of money for a project with no real plan doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I have to wonder who benefits from this wall's construction?
"Socialism" is what makes life in the "Capitalist world" good. Public roads, public education, subsidized medicine research, safety regulations, military, police, equality... All "socialist" ideas, borrowed and implemented in every place you'd want to live.
Tunnels take time to dig and create a single entry point that can be monitored more easily. Claiming a shovel makes the entire wall useless is an idiotic argument, especially when walls have been demonstrably effective where we already have them.
Take $20B out of the DoD budget and build a really awesome border wall.
Advantages:
* $20B that is spent domestically.
* $20B that builds things that last (ie not ordnance, bullets, etc.)
* Will pay for itself quickly with the reduction in human traffic across the border.
* Defense spending that saves lives instead of taking them.
Disadvantages:
* Keeps the flow of new Democratic voters reduced.
* Doesn't enrich the Military Industrial Complex.
* Forces the Chamber of Commerce to hire more native low skilled workers.
Huh, hard choice.
The US mil can detect tunnel use as they need that skill in war zones all over the world AC.
Informants talk.
The problem with a tunnel is the entry part and exit part. Too much new activity gets noticed a short distance from each side of the nation.
Governments get really good at watching for new patterns and understand changes to transport weight AC.
All faces are on CCTV.
The wall makes it just that much more difficult no not have the ability to drive/move into the USA without detection and searches 24/7 AC.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
"Thats why walls work"
There's one thing I don't understand, though... I have clear memories of Trump stating it was going Mexico the one to pay for the wall so, what's the problem with the wall not having a line in USA's budget? Wasn't exactly that what Trump expected -and promised?
The "tired, your poor, your huddled masses" arrived in the USA legally at that time.
Entering the USA now as an illegal migrant now via some random location is not legal.
People with an approved reason to enter theUSA, move tot the USA will still be accepted.
People can still enter the USA at a legal crossing location as normal people do.
Present their documents issued and they are legally in the USA.
The wall keeps out criminals, drugs, illegal migrants by making them have to risk a legal crossing location.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Any barrier that can be built by tools can be penetrated by tools, it's just a matter of time and preparation. And in the very remote places the wall will go through, people have lots of time.
For the wall to work, it needs pretty close to continal surveillance in those remote places. Not only along the wall, but in front to detect people who went through or over or under. You also need to be able to catch those people. Once you have those things, you don't really need the physical wall anymore.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Most of them are not refugees from political violence. Most of them are leaving for financial reasons. And the caravans started because Pueblos Sin Fronteras organized them and told these people their life would be much better if they left for the US. There's a reason the last one hit the border right at election time.
Study walls and fence systems that work legally around the world.
Make sure the wall cant be climbed physically without effort and that all legal attempts to stay in the USA after such attempts fail.
Make sure any illegal migrant who attempts the get over the wall has no legal rights to the stay in the USA after that attempt.
That stops years and decades of legal court work in the USA after each and every attempt to get over the wall.
The illegal migrant is set back to there side of the wall and never allowed back into the USA.
Attempt to get over the wall and that is a crime and no further access to the US is ever permitted for any reason for that illegal migrant.
That will force all illegal migrants to have to buy fake random documents. Such new documents are now more easy to detect at any legal crossing location.
Wondering int the USA at some random location is no longer an option.
Demanding US legal protection later after wondering into the USA will not work.
Use all detection methods the US mil has to detect any new deeper tunnel attempts.
That removes the legal and easy attempts to cross into the USA illegally. All later US court and legal attempts to stay in the USA after getting over the wall.
That then allows more enfacement at ports, airports and all other legal entry locations.
Crime, illegal migration and drug imports are reduced.
Win, win, win.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Not to mention, almost ALL illegal immigrants are coming via airports comparatively. And SEVEN TIMES as many terrorism suspects are caught at the NORTHERN border than the Southern.
Republicans are ideological morons by choice. Kick them to the curb, let them be in whatever swamp they want to run, but they suck at governance. The shutdown over BS proves it undeniably.
Arizona had 240 illegal immigrant inmates incarcerated in federal prison for homicide related charges. California had 2430, Florida had 480, New York had 1350, and Texas had 900
That's some interesting math considering that it's more than the total number of inmates in federal prison for homicide charges.
Virtual walls are expensive to buy and maintain. Its not like the cameras will be simple IR illuminated CCD style you buy at a big box store. They'll be high resolution with thermal imaging. They have to survive difficult environmental conditions. Hundreds of miles of fiber optics and fiber switchgear. Expensive servers and front-end clients. Federal contractors to maintain it all.
Versus a physical barrier CBP can drive by and inspect for damage on occasion.
Versus a Virtual Fence, they're not much of a deterrent. "Woooo, I'm so scared of being caught on video. OMG! What if they use facial recognition that isn't used in my home country?" vs "Hmm... 30ft wall, spikes and/or barbwire... Maybe I should just use an actual border crossing?"
If your donors include many defense contractors, which system are you going to pitch?
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
The most bizarre thing about this is that all of this technical funding (well, at least a lot of it) is already in the request that the Trump Administration is making. Border walls do work (ask any resident of San Diego), and technology can be used in places where the border fencing is not necessary. (As an example, the border wall ends about 20 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean here as the urbanized portion of Tijuana ends and the mountain terrain on both sides provides a good deterrent.)
Here's more detail on the request from a few days ago. Really not sure what Pelosi is yelling about at this point, since a comprehensive mixed-focus border strengthening is ostensibly what both sides want:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-asks-for-billions-of-dollars-to-fund-border-operations/
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
They have a chance to prove their case at any US embassy outside the USA for a real legal reason to enter the USA.
An illegal migration is not a reason to enter the USA.
The US embassy will then consider and if approved grant the needed documents to any person with a real reason to enter the USA.
For a holiday, education, visit, approved health care, to stay in the USA, to move to the USA.
They can tell their story at any legal crossing location.
The wall AC stops random criminals and illegal migrants from wondering into the USA AC.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
There is also the human cost to consider.
Rep. Brooks outlines the cost of not having a wall:
“With the southern border, we have the loss of at least 15,000 Americans a year. You have 2,000 that are homicides by illegal aliens, according to federal government data. You’ve got another 15,000, 16,000 that die each year from heroin overdoses, 90 percent of which comes across our porous southern border. That’s not counting the 55,000 additional deaths that are caused by overdoses, a significant amount of which comes across the southern border,” Brooks stated."
I've looked into this, and the numbers are accurate.
And completely irrelevant to a wall. Do you really think people are carrying bags of heroin on their backs through the desert? The heroin comes through ports of entry, hidden in trucks or ships.
Rep Mo Brooks is lying to you.
The GAO estimates for 2009 show that Arizona had 240 illegal immigrant inmates incarcerated in federal prison for homicide related charges. California had 2430, Florida had 480, New York had 1350, and Texas had 900.
"Taking the data only from these five states, and assuming that each person incarcerated for a homicide-related offense is responsible for only one death, yields 5,400 people killed by illegal aliens."
For comparison, automobile deaths in the US is around 35,000 annually.
Total non-medical deaths in the US is about 161,000 annually. Deaths due to illegals is more than 2% of that
Wow that article is hilarious.
"DACA is bad because a much larger group of which DACA is a very unique subset committed bad crimes!! And I'm skeptical of studies that completely contradict my thesis but won't actually say why!!!!"
depending on where you put the blame for overdosing.
All of this is fact, and should be the basis for any political arguments about the wall.
The human cost of not having a wall is very high.
Even assuming illegal immigration was as terrible as you say did you notice last year when Democrats and Trump agreed to a deal for $25 billion in wall funding, but then immigration hardliners came in and blew it up?
There's a reason they did that, a wall is a giant waste of cash and not that useful for stopping illegal immigration.
But if President Crybaby really wants a wall he can do the thing Presidents are supposed to do when they want a policy and needs the other party's support. Negotiate and find something of value they'll take in exchange.
The US system does not give Trump the right to build a wall without congressional support.
I stole this Sig
In 2019 we've got much better technologies to detect border crossings than some stupid-ass wall that has to be patrolled anyway because they will get over it or tunnel under it regardless of how high or how deep it goes! Just like everything else Trump does he's trying to use 1940's """technology""" to solve a problem; how can anyone be behind this, are you all dumb, too? For fuck's sake for what his retarded-ass wall would cost we could put a surveillance satellite in geosync orbit that would watch the entire border and not have to take any private citizens' land, and be so much more effective because you wouldn't have to have an entire army of people to physically patrol some damned wall.
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran [Brian Kolfage] to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Guess who sits on the Board of Directors of this new non-profit and will probably get paid to do so? Yup, Brian Kolfage, along with his team including:
Erik Prince, an American businessman known for founding the security firm Blackwater (he is also Education Secretary Betsy DeVos' brother), David Clarke, the former Wisconsin sheriff known for expressing controversial views on immigration, and Kris Kobach, the former Kansas secretary of state.
Business Insider (and others) also note:
Kolfage's previous endeavors, which included stints running conspiracy-theory websites and a related Facebook page that was kicked off the platform in October.
People getting refunds from the GoFundMe campaign will be contacted via email and offered the opportunity to donate to this new "501(c)(4) non-profit Florida Corporation named 'We Build the Wall, Inc.'" -- which will probably *not* be refundable (which will be nice for Brian and his team).
In addition, this Business Insiderarticle Man behind 'Build the Wall' GoFundMe has reportedly made a potentially lucrative contact list thanks to a shadowy email-harvesting operation notes (from interviews with former employees and public records):
NBC News reported that Kolfage, who was associated with websites that published false stories and had pages shut down by Facebook, claims to have gathered 3.5 million email addresses through his border wall campaign.
Those addresses, NBC News reported, have allegedly been used to encourage people to support Kolfage's websites, to buy a coffee brand he owns, or to be stored for future use by conservative campaigns.
Lindsey Lowery, a former staff writer at the now-defunct conservative website FreedomDaily, shared a text message with NBC News in which Kolfage discussed his email harvesting plans.
In the texts, Kolfage told Lowery in September 2017 that "we can make our own [petition] through the website to steal/collect emails."
So... this guy sounds great. /sarcasm
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
San Diego is an urban area where walls EXIST. Yes, they work there - at slowing people slightly - because THEY ARE MANNED AND PATROLLED NEARBY. That is not happening along the entire border, nor proposed.
The 2006 study on GK's effectiveness noted a 76% drop from 1992-2004 in San Diego County, so I'd put it at more than "slowing people slightly". It's a fair argument that some/many of the would-be crossers tried crossing more East instead (not just into Imperial County, but much further east... past Yuma in AZ, NM, and TX). One doesn't need to build an entire wall everywhere and Trump's proposal doesn't do that. CBP knows where walls are needed and where they're not, and they're fully capable of allocating resources accordingly.
The technology in the budget requests goes to a lot of IR, drones, and the like... Exactly the kind of smart allocation of resources everyone on all sides appears to claim to want.
So, again... What's the problem?
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
Taxes are crowdfunding v 1.0
and overstay their visit. But even if the goal is no longer to stop the flow of illegals (which is how The Wall was sold to me) but instead of make border patrol's life easier it's no good. For one thing there's ladders. For another it's pretty easy to climb a fence.
As others have pointed out Israel doesn't have a lot of wall or fence. Unless you're gonna station somebody at every inch of fence they're just gonna go over it. Israel's solution is snipers and a willingness to kill. I suppose we could do that.
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Border fence in Israel cut illegal immigration by 99 percent, GOP senator says - Politifact says it's true. I'd say a 99% cut in illegal immigration is rather good, wouldn't you?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
No, he didn't. You can be a Federal prisoner but held in State prison. Illegal Immigration is a Federal offense, Homicide is a State offense. You would be a Federal and State prisoner, and probably held in State prison. But still counted by the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
But I get it, better to nit-pick a tiny point, ignoring the fact there are literally thousands of convicted, illegal alien murders in our system. Nope, no problems with illegal aliens - ignore the thousands who we've convicted for murder. Look over here - we can argue over a Federal and State criminal being counted in the Federal system but held in State prison!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Gonna have to ask for a citation of that. We know about 600,000 overstay their visa (because we check them at the border - the airport), and we know we catch 300,000 illegally crossing the US-Mexico border. How many do we NOT catch? Any numbers for that?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Towers spaced every 200m with .50cal automated machine guns, shooting anything that approaches the border. Problem solved
Air Traffic Control is a Federal/FAA service, and the workers are going unpaid now.
Far more important would be a wall to keep drugs from entering the White House.
Yes. We will need more border patrol agents. Thankfully we have ~40 times the population, so having a population of 330 million supporting border agents for 2000 miles of border should be easier than a population of 8.7 million supporting border agents for 440 miles of border. And ours just want to sell drugs, not kill us. So they see survival - not being caught and/or killed - as more important.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The Israel border is 440 miles long - about 22% of the US Southern border. I think we can agree we have more than 5 times the resources available to patrol?
As far as most people coming through the airports - citation needed. We know how many came through because we have paperwork/visa entry information on them. Do we have equivalent data on those illegally crossing the border - those never checked, never vetted, never issued a visa? No? Then how can you make the claim?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Not INSTEAD of one.
Because, in the end, the default for a physical impediment is "use the door".
The default for a virtual impediment (drones, patrols, etc) is "No cop. No crime."
A wall forces you to breach, surmount or tunnel under.
All of which take progressively more time, take more resources and generally force the crosser to get "noisy" in some way, increasing the likelihood of being caught.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
i can't speak to the murder statistics
The murder statistics are nonsense. Saying "Mexicans murder people in America, therefore we should have a wall", is as silly as saying "Californians murder people in Nevada, therefore we should have a wall".
Illegal immigration does not increase violent crime
Mexican immigrants are LESS likely to commit violent crimes than native born Americans
There's an old saying: good fences make good neighbors, and good neighbors build good fences.
You are misinterpreting the "old saying". It is from Mending Wall, a poem by Robert Frost. His neighbor says "Good fences make good neighbors." But the point of the poem is that the fence actually serves no real purpose at all, and is a barrier between two people who would likely be better friends without the fence.
But don't worry, you are in good company. Sarah Palin also completely missed the point.
As a Texan, I am highly motivated to keeping the masses of people from California, New York, Illinois, oh and especially Oregon and Washington and to a much lesser extent the liberals in Colorado from migrating here after their own states have started failing.
But, alas, like Britain and the Poles, we don't have the authority to do that.
I'm all for a Texit. 250%. Or a Calexit. Either would enable this goal to be possible.
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Which border did the ones in New York cross illegally?
The main problem with the statistics, however, is that the US does not incarcerate murderers for only one year. To find the yearly homicide rate, divide 5400 by the average length of a sentence in years. Then it's not 2%, but something much closer to statistical noise.
If you want to talk about reducing deaths from overdoses then by all means let's talk about building a high quality public health system.
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the wall forces most shipments to pass into inspection.
A wall is no barrier to a drug trafficker armed with a drone or a tshirt cannon.
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Uh, no, it won't. The vast majority of drugs are smuggled through the legal checkpoints and a wall won't stop them at all.
No, they aren't. Because most of them claim asylum from persecution or imminent danger in their home country and those claims by law have to be investigated before they are repatriated.
No one believes that. You know, because of all the evidence against it.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Make it a felony to employ an illegal immigrant (and as a small business owner, I'd totally support this 100%). Require everyone including asylum seekers to declare at a legit port of entry and stay there on their side of the border in a secure facility waiting for their hearing. Anyone else gets kicked out and permanently banned. These simple legal changes would be way more effective than any physical barrier.
I wish we would debate immigration itself and not get stuck in the weeds discussing walls, whether drugs or illegal immigrants come over the border frontier or airports and shipping containers, or whether they're all criminals, and all the other fringe elements of the debate.
I think there are serious questions about the economic impact of high levels of impoverished immigrants. They burden school districts, local social welfare systems, low-income housing, etc. Does their very low wage employment, even in an ideal situation where they are W-2 workers, actually pay off their added economic burden, or are they actually subsidized, perhaps even for a long time -- like a generation. Or even longer, since we know that escaping poverty is hard.
Our social welfare system does a very marginal job of serving US citizens, it seems unlikely to expand sufficiently to cover significant numbers of poor migrants and serve US citizens. This seems like a real issue to me.
Then there are real questions about the US job market and corporate hiring policies for non-impoverished immigrants. Very few of them are "rock star" types, most of them are cheap filler for corporate jobs that actually seems to harm skilled US workers.
If you read the quoted article form politfact.com really, you'll see it is not so clear:
Rated "mostly true", however it is hotly debated in Israel in howfar the 90% reduction (not 99%) is due to the fence or due to other factors.
A fence/wall is told to be only effective "on a small scale and with many guards". The situation on the US-Mexican border is found to be completely different from the Isaeli southern border, no conclusions can be drawn from this to the effectivity of a fence or border on the 2000 mile long US-Mexican border.
Straight from Trump's campaign website. In this case, he didn't say the instrument of payment would necessarily be a check per se, nevertheless the "Mexican government will contribute the funds". The plan was to pressure remittances to coerce the Mexican government into contributing the funds. There would be no need to put pressure on remittances if all along it was going to be a natural outcome of an improved trade deal.
https://assets.donaldjtrump.co...
On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31
CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include
money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to
includewire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that
no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien
first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United
States.
On day 2 Mexico will immediately protest. They receive approximately $24
billion a year in remittances from Mexican nationals working in the United
States. The majority of that amount comes from illegal aliens. It serves as de
facto welfare for poor families in Mexico. There is no significant social safety
net provided by the state in Mexico.
On day 3 tell Mexico that if the Mexican government will contribute the funds
needed to the United States to pay for the wall, the Trump Administration will
not promulgate the final rule, and the regulation will not go into effect.
Visa overstays are between 25 and 40 percent of illegal aliens in the US. Most come across the border illegally, hence the wall.
The murder statistics are nonsense. Saying "Mexicans murder people in America, therefore we should have a wall", is as silly as saying "Californians murder people in Nevada, therefore we should have a wall".
No, it's not silly. Because Californians living legally in the US are different than people who we should be preventing from being here when they cheat to do so. If we can reduce some of the tens of thousands of crimes committed in the US by those who are illegally present, that's tens of thousands of crimes fewer we have to deal with. People who end up alive, instead of dead.
Let me guess. You're going to say that there are simply a fixed number of crimes, and if the illegals who commit thousands and thousands of violent felonies every year weren't in the country, then law-abiding citizens would step up and commit those crimes instead? Do you realize how absurd your position on this actually is? How about we just use that old liberal/progressive staple: "If we can save just one life by [banning/regulating/taking-away-liberty-in-some-way], then it's worth doing." So, if we can prevent thousands of violent felonies from being committed by people, many of whom have been repeatedly deported and who simply walk back across the border because there's nothing stopping them or even slowing them down, doesn't that more than qualify for a Progressive "Think Of The Children" blessing for whatever method contributes to that end? No? I see.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Your estimate appears to be low. According this fact check, around 40-45% of illegal immigrants were overstays during the 90s. There is no real current reporting on the source of illegal immigration right now, the department that previous published that report no longer exists. However, that was near the peak of illegal border crossings, they peaked in 2000, and since then border crossings have dropped by around 70% (they are now the lowest they have been since 1971), and it seems the best estimate is that around two thirds (or more) of new illegal immigrants are overstays.
Fanatically anti-fanatical