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Should America Build a Virtual Border Wall? Or Just Crowdfund It... (chicagotribune.com)
As America's government faces its longest-ever shutdown over the president's demands for border wall funding, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has suggested "possible alternatives to a physical wall," according to one Silicon Valley newspaper:
Among the president's justifications for a wall is to stop drugs from coming into the United States, so Pelosi proposed spending "hundreds of millions of dollars" for technology to scan cars for drugs, weapons and contraband at the border. "The positive, shall we say, almost technological wall that can be built is what we should be doing," Pelosi, D-San Francisco, said during her weekly press conference.
That didn't go over well with Fight for the Future, a digital rights advocacy group that on Friday started a petition asking Democrats to drop plans for a "technological wall" that it says could threaten Fourth Amendment rights that guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. "Current border surveillance programs subject people to invasive and unconstitutional searches of their cell phones and laptops, location tracking, drone surveillance, and problematic watchlists," the group's petition says...
In December, the Department of Homeland Security's Office of the Inspector General released a report that showed searches of electronic devices at the border were up nearly 50 percent in 2017. The report also found that border agents were not always following standard operating procedures for searches, including failing to properly document such searches. In addition, information copied by agents were not always deleted as required.
The article also notes that Anduril Industries -- founded by Oculus Rift designer Palmer Luckey (and funded by Peter Thiel) -- is one of several companies already working on "a virtual border wall."
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Meanwhile, another 7,121 GoFundMe members have pledged $160,985 to a rival campaign raising money for ladders to climb over Trump's wall.
That didn't go over well with Fight for the Future, a digital rights advocacy group that on Friday started a petition asking Democrats to drop plans for a "technological wall" that it says could threaten Fourth Amendment rights that guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. "Current border surveillance programs subject people to invasive and unconstitutional searches of their cell phones and laptops, location tracking, drone surveillance, and problematic watchlists," the group's petition says...
In December, the Department of Homeland Security's Office of the Inspector General released a report that showed searches of electronic devices at the border were up nearly 50 percent in 2017. The report also found that border agents were not always following standard operating procedures for searches, including failing to properly document such searches. In addition, information copied by agents were not always deleted as required.
The article also notes that Anduril Industries -- founded by Oculus Rift designer Palmer Luckey (and funded by Peter Thiel) -- is one of several companies already working on "a virtual border wall."
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Meanwhile, another 7,121 GoFundMe members have pledged $160,985 to a rival campaign raising money for ladders to climb over Trump's wall.
AFAIK, the "wall" is supposed to be built outside of official border crossing points. "Official" border crossings have used x-ray or similar scanners since at least 2012; they probably check for radiation too.
https://www.cnet.com/news/dhs-...
I'm not actually in favor of a wall, but Nauseating Nancy Pelosi seems to be discussing an entirely different issue. What's the long-term solution? Fix the broken immigration system, issue an amount of guest-worker permits that's sufficient to meet demand for immigration.
If we're going to build a "wall" along the border, I'm not sure that either a wall or high-tech will do much. Anyone willing to cross a hundred miles of desert isn't going to be fazed by another obstacle that's surmountable. Want to patrol the more rugged parts of the border? First build a road or track along it, then use Border Patrol mounted on horseback combined with drones with IR cameras. The terrain is such that mounted troops are actually more effective than motor vehicles or walls.
1/12/2019 @ 6:46 PM CST
Goal $1,000,000,000
Current Donations $20,360,122
Current People 340,800
Current Days 26
People/Day 13,108
Donations/Day $783,082
Days Til Goal 1,277
People Til Goal 435,203,679
The idea was to get $80 from all Americans (I don't know what that means ... babies can't participate).
Currently, it's at $59.74 per donor, on average.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Do you really want to fly when air traffic controllers are working without pay and probably even more stressed out than usual? That's how mistakes happen and mistakes get people killed.
Notice I'm not weeping for the "papers please" TSA jobsworths, but things like air traffic control, FAA inspections, FDA inspections, Dept of Ag, are actually useful and desirable.
The mainstream wings of BOTH parties in the US are authoritarian assholes.
Pension bailout? Planned Parenthood? New Aircraft Carrier group?
Just crowdfund it. It'll be apparent everybody just want everyone else to pay for their pet cause.
i can't speak to the murder statistics, but most fentanyl comes by ship from China these days. Most heroin that comes from "down South" probably comes in trucks or by ship, commingled with legitimate cargo.
You mean "nonessential" people like sysadmins who are not at work updating the latest local root bugs, or updating certificates, while Iran is doing a major attack against DNS servers? These "nonessential" people normally ensure that when you go to www.irs.gov to file taxes, you are really going to "www.irs.gov", and not "www.irs.ir", "www.irs.ru", or whatever TLD Lower Elbonia uses. Hopefully your tax return won't be captured and your refund snatched, but "nonessential" people prevent that from happening.
Then there are the national parks. The "nonessential" people keeping others from chainsawing stuff down in Joshua Tree, so they can romp with their four-wheelers.
Or perhaps food safety. USDA and other inspection workers are "nonessential", I guess. Just hope you don't get sick from another lysteria bout.
Maybe the CDC is "nonessential", as it really doesn't matter to some if a mutant flu starts or another SARS variant causing a high casualty count. Perhaps Ebola rearing its head may not be stopped because the "nonessential" people on the lookout for things like that are sidelined.
There will be ramifications of this shutdown that echo for years after this. We don't need a wall on the southern border; we need one in cyberspace.
would beg to differ. As would any air traveler who's stuck waiting in line because they're closing terminals due to a TSA shortage. Oh, and anyone who goes to public parks. And there's a ton of government web sites down.
But of course you know all this and are just trolling. I shouldn't feed the trolls, but there's a slim chance someone might believe you. There's a mountain of stuff private industry won't do because it's not profitable enough but it still needs doing.
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If you didn't read the news, you wouldn't know there is a federal shutdown.
There is literally no impact on regular Americans outside of DC.
As long as the taxes are removed from my paycheck, the government is not shut down.
I don't even feel sorry for the nonessentials. Go look for a new job not funded by taxpayers if you want to avoid political gridlock delaying your paycheck.
That's just not true. 800,000 Americans have been directly impacted by the shutdown. By directly impacted, I mean that they are not receiving a paycheck. You have a right not to feel sorry for those impacted but don't go around saying that nobody outside of DC is effected as that is just plain false.
it's not interfering with Latin American countries for the sake of oil profits, cheap labor and our stupid, anti-left wing drug war.
If you want folks to stop streaming over the boarder make it so their countries aren't hell holes. Those people in the Caravans are refugees from political violence America caused by destabilizing their governments. Reign the CIA and the war hawks in.
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I guess we should just strike through that "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" crap, eh?
#DeleteChrome
How will a wall help with any of that? Most illegal immigration is the cumulative result of people overstaying visas. In other words entering through a port of entry and then just not leaving. Furthermore the rate of illegal immigration into the US has steadily declined over the years in total, and in particular from Mexico. Immigration from other non-North American countries has increased, but the overall rate seems to be declining.
This current so-called crisis in Tijuana has nothing to do with border walls or border security either. These are folks who will claim asylum at the port of entry. A giant wall across the border wouldn't change this situation.
Also, where will this wall be built? Are wall supporters ready to spend the money not only to build the wall but to buy the land? The vast majority of the land along the border is privately owned. Will the government just take the land? Steal it from Mexico? What about rivers? This doesn't seem to be very well thought out. Earmarking a huge amount of money for a project with no real plan doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I have to wonder who benefits from this wall's construction?
AC when an illegal migrant enters the USA they are free to wonder around the USA for years, decades and generations.
Criminals can do all the crime they want until detected.
A wall makes the illegal migrants and criminals have to pass under a camera, get scanned, pass K9 units and have a legal reason to enter and stay in the USA.
Their documents have to be accepted. Their reason to be in the USA has to be accepted.
Count every person into the USA. Count every person out of the USA. No more illegal immigration AC.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
"Socialism" is what makes life in the "Capitalist world" good. Public roads, public education, subsidized medicine research, safety regulations, military, police, equality... All "socialist" ideas, borrowed and implemented in every place you'd want to live.
Crowdfunding the border wall might be a good idea. The irony of doing it that way is that it will show just how unpopular it is overall. I will bet that it will fail to reach the goal because only the lunatic fringe wants the wall built. As an NBC commentator noted, "It is a 13th century solution to a 19th century problem." Drugs will still make it into the United States by flying them via drones. Furthermore, those wishing to cross illegally need only to dig tunnels.
As would any air traveler who's stuck waiting in line because they're closing terminals due to a TSA shortage.
Easily solved with less government: remove the TSA entirely. Go back to airports with private security. Return to respecting the 4th amendment. Government agents searching you without probable cause in order to fly is such a blatant violation of our rights, and I don't ecall anything in the Bill of Rights that says "unless we're scared".
There's no evidence that the TSA improves security over the process we had in 1999. Other changes did help security, but not the TSA. We don't like them. We don't need them. But the government will never relinquish any power, no matter how petty or useless, over the people.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Tunnels take time to dig and create a single entry point that can be monitored more easily. Claiming a shovel makes the entire wall useless is an idiotic argument, especially when walls have been demonstrably effective where we already have them.
Take $20B out of the DoD budget and build a really awesome border wall.
Advantages:
* $20B that is spent domestically.
* $20B that builds things that last (ie not ordnance, bullets, etc.)
* Will pay for itself quickly with the reduction in human traffic across the border.
* Defense spending that saves lives instead of taking them.
Disadvantages:
* Keeps the flow of new Democratic voters reduced.
* Doesn't enrich the Military Industrial Complex.
* Forces the Chamber of Commerce to hire more native low skilled workers.
Huh, hard choice.
The US mil can detect tunnel use as they need that skill in war zones all over the world AC.
Informants talk.
The problem with a tunnel is the entry part and exit part. Too much new activity gets noticed a short distance from each side of the nation.
Governments get really good at watching for new patterns and understand changes to transport weight AC.
All faces are on CCTV.
The wall makes it just that much more difficult no not have the ability to drive/move into the USA without detection and searches 24/7 AC.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
"Thats why walls work"
There's one thing I don't understand, though... I have clear memories of Trump stating it was going Mexico the one to pay for the wall so, what's the problem with the wall not having a line in USA's budget? Wasn't exactly that what Trump expected -and promised?
The "tired, your poor, your huddled masses" arrived in the USA legally at that time.
Entering the USA now as an illegal migrant now via some random location is not legal.
People with an approved reason to enter theUSA, move tot the USA will still be accepted.
People can still enter the USA at a legal crossing location as normal people do.
Present their documents issued and they are legally in the USA.
The wall keeps out criminals, drugs, illegal migrants by making them have to risk a legal crossing location.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Any barrier that can be built by tools can be penetrated by tools, it's just a matter of time and preparation. And in the very remote places the wall will go through, people have lots of time.
For the wall to work, it needs pretty close to continal surveillance in those remote places. Not only along the wall, but in front to detect people who went through or over or under. You also need to be able to catch those people. Once you have those things, you don't really need the physical wall anymore.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Study walls and fence systems that work legally around the world.
Make sure the wall cant be climbed physically without effort and that all legal attempts to stay in the USA after such attempts fail.
Make sure any illegal migrant who attempts the get over the wall has no legal rights to the stay in the USA after that attempt.
That stops years and decades of legal court work in the USA after each and every attempt to get over the wall.
The illegal migrant is set back to there side of the wall and never allowed back into the USA.
Attempt to get over the wall and that is a crime and no further access to the US is ever permitted for any reason for that illegal migrant.
That will force all illegal migrants to have to buy fake random documents. Such new documents are now more easy to detect at any legal crossing location.
Wondering int the USA at some random location is no longer an option.
Demanding US legal protection later after wondering into the USA will not work.
Use all detection methods the US mil has to detect any new deeper tunnel attempts.
That removes the legal and easy attempts to cross into the USA illegally. All later US court and legal attempts to stay in the USA after getting over the wall.
That then allows more enfacement at ports, airports and all other legal entry locations.
Crime, illegal migration and drug imports are reduced.
Win, win, win.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Not to mention, almost ALL illegal immigrants are coming via airports comparatively. And SEVEN TIMES as many terrorism suspects are caught at the NORTHERN border than the Southern.
Republicans are ideological morons by choice. Kick them to the curb, let them be in whatever swamp they want to run, but they suck at governance. The shutdown over BS proves it undeniably.
... he is.
NBC News reported that Kolfage, who was associated with websites that published false stories and had pages shut down by Facebook, claims to have gathered 3.5 million email addresses through his border wall campaign.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
If you didn't read the news, you wouldn't know there is a federal shutdown.
There is literally no impact on regular Americans outside of DC.
As long as the taxes are removed from my paycheck, the government is not shut down.
I don't even feel sorry for the nonessentials. Go look for a new job not funded by taxpayers if you want to avoid political gridlock delaying your paycheck.
Unless you're a government employee who isn't receiving a paycheck.
Or planning to go to a National Park and noticed it's either closed or opened and trashed.
Or flying and dealing with longer lines due to pissed off and absent TSA screeners.
Or you'll just be dealing with some bureaucratic BS in a few months time and whining about lazy government employees not realizing the BS you're dealing with is because the department got way behind dealing with the shutdown caused by your hero's temper tantrum.
I stole this Sig
Arizona had 240 illegal immigrant inmates incarcerated in federal prison for homicide related charges. California had 2430, Florida had 480, New York had 1350, and Texas had 900
That's some interesting math considering that it's more than the total number of inmates in federal prison for homicide charges.
Virtual walls are expensive to buy and maintain. Its not like the cameras will be simple IR illuminated CCD style you buy at a big box store. They'll be high resolution with thermal imaging. They have to survive difficult environmental conditions. Hundreds of miles of fiber optics and fiber switchgear. Expensive servers and front-end clients. Federal contractors to maintain it all.
Versus a physical barrier CBP can drive by and inspect for damage on occasion.
Versus a Virtual Fence, they're not much of a deterrent. "Woooo, I'm so scared of being caught on video. OMG! What if they use facial recognition that isn't used in my home country?" vs "Hmm... 30ft wall, spikes and/or barbwire... Maybe I should just use an actual border crossing?"
If your donors include many defense contractors, which system are you going to pitch?
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
The most bizarre thing about this is that all of this technical funding (well, at least a lot of it) is already in the request that the Trump Administration is making. Border walls do work (ask any resident of San Diego), and technology can be used in places where the border fencing is not necessary. (As an example, the border wall ends about 20 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean here as the urbanized portion of Tijuana ends and the mountain terrain on both sides provides a good deterrent.)
Here's more detail on the request from a few days ago. Really not sure what Pelosi is yelling about at this point, since a comprehensive mixed-focus border strengthening is ostensibly what both sides want:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-asks-for-billions-of-dollars-to-fund-border-operations/
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
There is also the human cost to consider.
Rep. Brooks outlines the cost of not having a wall:
“With the southern border, we have the loss of at least 15,000 Americans a year. You have 2,000 that are homicides by illegal aliens, according to federal government data. You’ve got another 15,000, 16,000 that die each year from heroin overdoses, 90 percent of which comes across our porous southern border. That’s not counting the 55,000 additional deaths that are caused by overdoses, a significant amount of which comes across the southern border,” Brooks stated."
I've looked into this, and the numbers are accurate.
And completely irrelevant to a wall. Do you really think people are carrying bags of heroin on their backs through the desert? The heroin comes through ports of entry, hidden in trucks or ships.
Rep Mo Brooks is lying to you.
The GAO estimates for 2009 show that Arizona had 240 illegal immigrant inmates incarcerated in federal prison for homicide related charges. California had 2430, Florida had 480, New York had 1350, and Texas had 900.
"Taking the data only from these five states, and assuming that each person incarcerated for a homicide-related offense is responsible for only one death, yields 5,400 people killed by illegal aliens."
For comparison, automobile deaths in the US is around 35,000 annually.
Total non-medical deaths in the US is about 161,000 annually. Deaths due to illegals is more than 2% of that
Wow that article is hilarious.
"DACA is bad because a much larger group of which DACA is a very unique subset committed bad crimes!! And I'm skeptical of studies that completely contradict my thesis but won't actually say why!!!!"
depending on where you put the blame for overdosing.
All of this is fact, and should be the basis for any political arguments about the wall.
The human cost of not having a wall is very high.
Even assuming illegal immigration was as terrible as you say did you notice last year when Democrats and Trump agreed to a deal for $25 billion in wall funding, but then immigration hardliners came in and blew it up?
There's a reason they did that, a wall is a giant waste of cash and not that useful for stopping illegal immigration.
But if President Crybaby really wants a wall he can do the thing Presidents are supposed to do when they want a policy and needs the other party's support. Negotiate and find something of value they'll take in exchange.
The US system does not give Trump the right to build a wall without congressional support.
I stole this Sig
If we would simply sit on the sidelines for the next " War on X ", we could easily build that wall 10x over.
Folks talk about how it would be a waste of money to build it, yet where is all that outrage when the US is spending TRILLIONS of dollars in the never ending conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc. etc. ?
+sarcasm
I think I now what we can do with all those surplus landmines laying around. Cheap and very effective.
-sarcasm
around here.
In 2019 we've got much better technologies to detect border crossings than some stupid-ass wall that has to be patrolled anyway because they will get over it or tunnel under it regardless of how high or how deep it goes! Just like everything else Trump does he's trying to use 1940's """technology""" to solve a problem; how can anyone be behind this, are you all dumb, too? For fuck's sake for what his retarded-ass wall would cost we could put a surveillance satellite in geosync orbit that would watch the entire border and not have to take any private citizens' land, and be so much more effective because you wouldn't have to have an entire army of people to physically patrol some damned wall.
CNN also reports on a GoFundMe campaign started by an Air Force veteran [Brian Kolfage] to simply crowdfund the construction of the wall. Though 340,747 people pledged over $20 million, it failed to reach its $1 billion goal, and is now pointing supporters to a newly-formed non-profit corporation -- named "We Build the Wall."
Guess who sits on the Board of Directors of this new non-profit and will probably get paid to do so? Yup, Brian Kolfage, along with his team including:
Erik Prince, an American businessman known for founding the security firm Blackwater (he is also Education Secretary Betsy DeVos' brother), David Clarke, the former Wisconsin sheriff known for expressing controversial views on immigration, and Kris Kobach, the former Kansas secretary of state.
Business Insider (and others) also note:
Kolfage's previous endeavors, which included stints running conspiracy-theory websites and a related Facebook page that was kicked off the platform in October.
People getting refunds from the GoFundMe campaign will be contacted via email and offered the opportunity to donate to this new "501(c)(4) non-profit Florida Corporation named 'We Build the Wall, Inc.'" -- which will probably *not* be refundable (which will be nice for Brian and his team).
In addition, this Business Insiderarticle Man behind 'Build the Wall' GoFundMe has reportedly made a potentially lucrative contact list thanks to a shadowy email-harvesting operation notes (from interviews with former employees and public records):
NBC News reported that Kolfage, who was associated with websites that published false stories and had pages shut down by Facebook, claims to have gathered 3.5 million email addresses through his border wall campaign.
Those addresses, NBC News reported, have allegedly been used to encourage people to support Kolfage's websites, to buy a coffee brand he owns, or to be stored for future use by conservative campaigns.
Lindsey Lowery, a former staff writer at the now-defunct conservative website FreedomDaily, shared a text message with NBC News in which Kolfage discussed his email harvesting plans.
In the texts, Kolfage told Lowery in September 2017 that "we can make our own [petition] through the website to steal/collect emails."
So... this guy sounds great. /sarcasm
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
San Diego is an urban area where walls EXIST. Yes, they work there - at slowing people slightly - because THEY ARE MANNED AND PATROLLED NEARBY. That is not happening along the entire border, nor proposed.
The 2006 study on GK's effectiveness noted a 76% drop from 1992-2004 in San Diego County, so I'd put it at more than "slowing people slightly". It's a fair argument that some/many of the would-be crossers tried crossing more East instead (not just into Imperial County, but much further east... past Yuma in AZ, NM, and TX). One doesn't need to build an entire wall everywhere and Trump's proposal doesn't do that. CBP knows where walls are needed and where they're not, and they're fully capable of allocating resources accordingly.
The technology in the budget requests goes to a lot of IR, drones, and the like... Exactly the kind of smart allocation of resources everyone on all sides appears to claim to want.
So, again... What's the problem?
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
"I can't be outraged about two different things at once!" Seriously?
There is also the human cost to consider.
Rep. Brooks outlines the cost of not having a wall:
“With the southern border, we have the loss of at least 15,000 Americans a year. You have 2,000 that are homicides by illegal aliens, according to federal government data. You’ve got another 15,000, 16,000 that die each year from heroin overdoses, 90 percent of which comes across our porous southern border. That’s not counting the 55,000 additional deaths that are caused by overdoses, a significant amount of which comes across the southern border,” Brooks stated."
I've looked into this, and the numbers are accurate. The GAO estimates for 2009 show that Arizona had 240 illegal immigrant inmates incarcerated in federal prison for homicide related charges. California had 2430, Florida had 480, New York had 1350, and Texas had 900.
"Taking the data only from these five states, and assuming that each person incarcerated for a homicide-related offense is responsible for only one death, yields 5,400 people killed by illegal aliens."
For comparison, automobile deaths in the US is around 35,000 annually.
Total non-medical deaths in the US is about 161,000 annually. Deaths due to illegals is more than 2% of that, possibly as much as 10%, depending on where you put the blame for overdosing.
All of this is fact, and should be the basis for any political arguments about the wall.
The human cost of not having a wall is very high.
The wall will NOT stop any of that. Zero. Nada.
NONE of it. Do you understand that we have THOUSANDS of miles of coastline that is barely guarded?
Do you understand that most of those drugs come in from regular checkpoints?
And let's deal with the REASONS why there are so many drugs coming into the country - THERE IS A DEMAND FOR THEM! Let's deal with that!
The wall is NOTHING but a distraction issue that will solve NOTHING.
And WHY are there so many migrants? Let's look at America's policies shall we?! We CAUSED the immigrant problem!
So let's take some responsibility for OUR actions on the World stage!
Jesus Fucking Christ! How the fuck did Americans get so stupid!! Oh wait! Newt Gingrich and Fox News......
GO ahead, get your fucking wall and "win". Go right ahead!
I am so disgusted now ... Trump is a total moron and yet, my fellow Americans STILL support him?! They'd sooner drop their football team for being less of a loser.
This is unbelievable. The Founding Fathers were morons for not giving us a Parliamentary system. This two-party system is broken and from what I see, it's the Republicans who have jumped the rails into retard land first.
It's a good thing that most of them are old and about to die. The sooner the better and let's fix this country when the Fox News audience is dead.
Taxes are crowdfunding v 1.0
...Because we already HAVE ONE?
Much of the border has a physical walls and fences today, and there's already 'virtual fences' monitored by motion-triggered remote cameras and such.
and overstay their visit. But even if the goal is no longer to stop the flow of illegals (which is how The Wall was sold to me) but instead of make border patrol's life easier it's no good. For one thing there's ladders. For another it's pretty easy to climb a fence.
As others have pointed out Israel doesn't have a lot of wall or fence. Unless you're gonna station somebody at every inch of fence they're just gonna go over it. Israel's solution is snipers and a willingness to kill. I suppose we could do that.
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When you fly into the US, you come through the border (immigration), and your identification, papers, and more are scrutinized. Would you support doing so for everyone who enters across a border? If they can bypass that check - should we let them do so?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
State prisons hold illegal immigrants, too...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Border fence in Israel cut illegal immigration by 99 percent, GOP senator says - Politifact says it's true. I'd say a 99% cut in illegal immigration is rather good, wouldn't you?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
No, he didn't. You can be a Federal prisoner but held in State prison. Illegal Immigration is a Federal offense, Homicide is a State offense. You would be a Federal and State prisoner, and probably held in State prison. But still counted by the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
But I get it, better to nit-pick a tiny point, ignoring the fact there are literally thousands of convicted, illegal alien murders in our system. Nope, no problems with illegal aliens - ignore the thousands who we've convicted for murder. Look over here - we can argue over a Federal and State criminal being counted in the Federal system but held in State prison!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Gonna have to ask for a citation of that. We know about 600,000 overstay their visa (because we check them at the border - the airport), and we know we catch 300,000 illegally crossing the US-Mexico border. How many do we NOT catch? Any numbers for that?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Can you cite the statute you are referring to here?
See that "Preview" button?
Towers spaced every 200m with .50cal automated machine guns, shooting anything that approaches the border. Problem solved
The poem you're quoting from, "The New Colossus" was written by a wealthy Jewish heiress, Emma Lazarus. She was not tired, not huddled, and certainly not poor. It was added to the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty several decades after the French gifted the actual statue.
We should absolutely strike through that poem, as it has nothing to do with the original intention of the gift. It was always intended as the Statue of Liberty, not the Statue of Unlimited Immigration.
Air Traffic Control is a Federal/FAA service, and the workers are going unpaid now.
wouldn't a dome be better? asking like i'm 5
Nice, then we need to expand and enhance ICE and get unconstitutional "sanctuary State/city" laws tossed... More ICE for everyone!
That's what it would actually take if Republicans really wanted to address the issue of illegals.
The wall is just an act of pandering to Republican voters who irrationally believe it will be a panacea for all our illegal immigration woes. The entire mindset behind it is "We want to win the next election, so we need to build that wall", nothing more.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
Far more important would be a wall to keep drugs from entering the White House.
that one is dumb
Yes. We will need more border patrol agents. Thankfully we have ~40 times the population, so having a population of 330 million supporting border agents for 2000 miles of border should be easier than a population of 8.7 million supporting border agents for 440 miles of border. And ours just want to sell drugs, not kill us. So they see survival - not being caught and/or killed - as more important.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The Israel border is 440 miles long - about 22% of the US Southern border. I think we can agree we have more than 5 times the resources available to patrol?
As far as most people coming through the airports - citation needed. We know how many came through because we have paperwork/visa entry information on them. Do we have equivalent data on those illegally crossing the border - those never checked, never vetted, never issued a visa? No? Then how can you make the claim?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
You must be too young to remember all the bombings and hijackings of the 60's and 70's.
Those occurred when there was NO screening. Then the airlines implemented security screening, and the problem mostly disappeared.
Then 9/11 happened, and the feds took over. The cost doubled, and the delays tripled. Yet the TSA does no better on penetration tests than the private security firms they replaced.
The TSA should be abolished, and airport security should be re-privatized.
Not INSTEAD of one.
Because, in the end, the default for a physical impediment is "use the door".
The default for a virtual impediment (drones, patrols, etc) is "No cop. No crime."
A wall forces you to breach, surmount or tunnel under.
All of which take progressively more time, take more resources and generally force the crosser to get "noisy" in some way, increasing the likelihood of being caught.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
i can't speak to the murder statistics
The murder statistics are nonsense. Saying "Mexicans murder people in America, therefore we should have a wall", is as silly as saying "Californians murder people in Nevada, therefore we should have a wall".
Illegal immigration does not increase violent crime
Mexican immigrants are LESS likely to commit violent crimes than native born Americans
They should get real jobs then. You know, like all the peasants. Us peasants who don't merely get paid vacations when our employer runs out of money. Everyone who not a government aristocrat just gets laid off. Cry me a fucking river.
There likely isn't enough jobs in the private sector for all these people. Trivia time: What do you call it when the government invents government jobs for people, so they have some form of employment?
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
With the southern border, we have the loss of at least 15,000 Americans a year.
Damn! That many are escaping, eh? We need a Wall!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Yep. But you're presenting it as an either-or problem.
It isn't, therefore you're being a dishonest bullshitter.
The country can tackle BOTH simultaneously.
And, if the Chicken Little Brigade would actually come up with a viable solution, we could.
Screaming "Hottest *INSERT HERE* EVARRRR!" or trying to implement some gamified social engineering scheme DOES NOT GET IT DONE.
Right now, we're talking about a border barrier that costs 1/1000th of the total US budget.
Meanwhile, foreign aid, and other pork projects will cost us several hundred times that.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Oh, and anyone who goes to public parks.
That is a problem of this adminstration's own doing. The unstaffed parks should've been closed. It is absolutely idiotic that the Republicans worried about the potential bad press resulting from the national parks being closed, but not the fallout from literally thousands of government employees getting a goose-egg on their paystub.
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DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
yet where is all that outrage when the US is spending TRILLIONS of dollars in the never ending conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc. etc. ?
There was plenty of outrage. Probably more than on any other issue since Vietnam. But most of those trillions are already spent, or are being spent on things like disability pay and long term care of wounded that are unavoidable. The on-going cost of out small remaining footprint is not much.
Besides, opposition to "The Wall" is not about it being expensive, but about it being stupid. I would oppose it even if Mexico really was paying for it. We should have cooperation and positive engagement with our neighbors. A wall is the opposite of that.
Nice, then we need to expand and enhance ICE and get unconstitutional "sanctuary State/city" laws tossed... More ICE for everyone!
Or we could just legalize drugs. If a law isn't working, sometimes the solution is to repeal it rather than to pile on more laws, police, and walls. Just a thought.
Let the Border Patrol guys point out where physical deterrents make sense. They know the territory and traffic. Have them work with construction & technology experts to arrive at a practical solution for each of the 1900 miles. Some folks want 90 ft tall concrete slabs or steel curtains for the entire border. I acknowledge that. Emotional satisfaction based in concrete. However, logistically and logically something like that would be difficult to construct, and extremely expensive. Compromise is needed. I'd like to think that technology could provide efficient, practical, reliable and cost-effective solutions, but unfortunately I know technology. Amazonian tribesman armed with poison-tipped darts would work better, but I can't see this administration hiring anyone from south of El Paso.
I see the biggest hurdle being that of lowering peoples expectations. No barrier, be it solid walls, razor-wire fences, autonomous killer robots or sharks with lasers on their heads is impermeable. I predict that "the wall", whatever form it takes, wont keep out undocumented workers, asylum seekers or drugs, it will just change the method and point of entry. When that happens we have 1900 miles of ungodly expensive obsolescence.
I still believe George S Patton was right when he said "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man", but I think we really do need to take CBP's recommendations into account.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
We need a border wall to protect us from violent Hispanic aliens.
At 17% of the overall population, Hispanics commit 22% of all murders in the United States.
Suppose that we calculate the percentages after omitting non-Hispanic Africans from the overall population. Then, Hispanics constitute 20% of the overall population but commit 37% of all murders. Hispanics commit murder at 3 times and 6 times the rate at which European-Americans and Asian-Americans, respectively, commit murder.
The countries in Latin America have high rates of violent crime and are the source of Hispanic emigration to the United States.
Get more info about this issue.
Cokain warrior you really are overhigh if you think a wall stops people arriving at airports,
Well it could if you built it across the middle of the runway.
...or don't live in the US. This concept of a government shutdown is a bizarre one for those of us living in other countries.
In countries with a UK-style parliament the budget is regarded as a confidence motion and if it fails then the government automatically falls and there is an election. In addition, the budget usually only deals with changes and specific investments so if one fails to pass normal operations just carry on as they were before but there are no new projects or changes in taxes or benefits. You guys should try it some time.
I guess we should just strike through that "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" crap, eh?
Based on my experience getting a green card 20 years ago you already did. I had to show that I was not too tired to get a job, had enough money to support myself and did not, nor had ever, belonged to the wrong sort of political party (communist) or thought polygamy was a good idea (which is usually a religious belief).
If you want to update it to the modern reality I would suggest: "give us your energetic, your reasonably well-off, your huddled masses yearning to pay fees".
There's an old saying: good fences make good neighbors, and good neighbors build good fences.
You are misinterpreting the "old saying". It is from Mending Wall, a poem by Robert Frost. His neighbor says "Good fences make good neighbors." But the point of the poem is that the fence actually serves no real purpose at all, and is a barrier between two people who would likely be better friends without the fence.
But don't worry, you are in good company. Sarah Palin also completely missed the point.
I am pretty sure that airports could rehire them, probably just offer them $10k more for the same job and see who jumps.
If not, well, that type of dictatorship needs to be stopped.
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
As a Texan, I am highly motivated to keeping the masses of people from California, New York, Illinois, oh and especially Oregon and Washington and to a much lesser extent the liberals in Colorado from migrating here after their own states have started failing.
But, alas, like Britain and the Poles, we don't have the authority to do that.
I'm all for a Texit. 250%. Or a Calexit. Either would enable this goal to be possible.
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
This is why I have no hope for either my generation (Millennials), the next generation, or the near future.
You're such an idiot.
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
Which border did the ones in New York cross illegally?
The main problem with the statistics, however, is that the US does not incarcerate murderers for only one year. To find the yearly homicide rate, divide 5400 by the average length of a sentence in years. Then it's not 2%, but something much closer to statistical noise.
If you want to talk about reducing deaths from overdoses then by all means let's talk about building a high quality public health system.
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the wall forces most shipments to pass into inspection.
A wall is no barrier to a drug trafficker armed with a drone or a tshirt cannon.
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Air Traffic Controller isn't a real job?
If I were the Democrats right now, I'd offer just enough money to do a detailed engineering study and a thorough environmental impact assessment. Seems like a small price to pay to get a reality check.
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If the U.S. military ever wasn't paid for a month THEN maybe we'd see REALLY POSITIVE SOCIETAL CHANGE for the first time in my life! (born in 1981).
I couldn't imagine a more happy scenario than vast swaths of the U.S. military AWOLing and reducing our huge budget expense by 50% or something. It'd be AMAZING!
Actually, I hope the entire frickin feds shut down for 3 months and prove to all the statist boot lickers and common rabble that we just don't need them and do much better without them!
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
Respect the man with a 6 digit user ID, AC biyatch!
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
Uh, no, it won't. The vast majority of drugs are smuggled through the legal checkpoints and a wall won't stop them at all.
No, they aren't. Because most of them claim asylum from persecution or imminent danger in their home country and those claims by law have to be investigated before they are repatriated.
Wouldn't it be easier to build a smaller wall around the crusty old white-supremacists? I'm sure they'd feel a lot safer behind a protective wall. I think millions of the rest of us would feel safer if those crusties were behind a wall too. I for one would feel safer among Mexican immigrants & central American refugees than racist 2nd amendment NRA nut-jobs.
It's a win-win! :)
BTW, I hear Canada's doing really well with getting lots of highly educated, highly skilled immigrants to work there because of the hostile environment that the current US administration is cultivating. Between that, the trade wars, incompetent elected representatives, & the shamefully bad diplomatic relations the US has, you'd think the USA was trying to drive itself into irrelevance & bankruptcy.
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
The math is that every week it goes on costs the economy $2 Billion. So just one more week and it will cost more than the $6 Billion he asks for.
I hope he vetoes EVERY SINGLE BILL they pass until they get a 2/3rds majority or a rock-solid 15 foot concrete wall.
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
https://www.amazon.com/How-Win...
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
It will be good, for once, to see people mostly from Red States paying for something they want, and actually contributing financially in a meaningful way to all the stuff they normally expect sensible, Blue State, taxpayers to fund for them.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
For all practical intent and purpose unless you have somebody watching it hourly, you don't need much time or construction equipment to destroy such a wall or go under/over it , at least for the cost of construction cited (to make solid far more solid you would have to increase cost by a manifold). So you would need a lot of fuel/car or heli/personal to go over that border and check it very regularly, or have a huge electric surveillance of that wall. And even then you catch at best only 50% of illegals (half of illegals overstay legal entry, and only part of the other half is using coyote, some do use train/board/truck transportation). Walls are lousy when it comes to stop stuff. All places which had working "walls" have actually dead zone , sniper, mines to make it work (Korea even if it is not a wall is a good example of that, another famous example is east germany and the mines and dead zones, then there is Israel where they use a wall ONLY when they can't have a dead zone and armed people). There is no good example of a working wall "alone".
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
No one believes that. You know, because of all the evidence against it.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Make it a felony to employ an illegal immigrant (and as a small business owner, I'd totally support this 100%). Require everyone including asylum seekers to declare at a legit port of entry and stay there on their side of the border in a secure facility waiting for their hearing. Anyone else gets kicked out and permanently banned. These simple legal changes would be way more effective than any physical barrier.
GOP senators say a lot of things. What they never ever do is admit that they are condoning genocide, which is what's going on when they cite Israel as a potential model for the USA to follow. That wall only works as well as it does (which you will notice is not 100%) because of snipers and missiles. Do you WANT a future in which we're launching missiles at Mexico? Because that's the future you're promoting.
Any time anyone says "but Israel does it" you can tell they are morally bankrupt.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I wish we would debate immigration itself and not get stuck in the weeds discussing walls, whether drugs or illegal immigrants come over the border frontier or airports and shipping containers, or whether they're all criminals, and all the other fringe elements of the debate.
I think there are serious questions about the economic impact of high levels of impoverished immigrants. They burden school districts, local social welfare systems, low-income housing, etc. Does their very low wage employment, even in an ideal situation where they are W-2 workers, actually pay off their added economic burden, or are they actually subsidized, perhaps even for a long time -- like a generation. Or even longer, since we know that escaping poverty is hard.
Our social welfare system does a very marginal job of serving US citizens, it seems unlikely to expand sufficiently to cover significant numbers of poor migrants and serve US citizens. This seems like a real issue to me.
Then there are real questions about the US job market and corporate hiring policies for non-impoverished immigrants. Very few of them are "rock star" types, most of them are cheap filler for corporate jobs that actually seems to harm skilled US workers.
If you read the quoted article form politfact.com really, you'll see it is not so clear:
Rated "mostly true", however it is hotly debated in Israel in howfar the 90% reduction (not 99%) is due to the fence or due to other factors.
A fence/wall is told to be only effective "on a small scale and with many guards". The situation on the US-Mexican border is found to be completely different from the Isaeli southern border, no conclusions can be drawn from this to the effectivity of a fence or border on the 2000 mile long US-Mexican border.
The funny thing is that if the federal government announced a highway from San Diego to Laredo nobody would be batting an eye about the engineering, cost, or construction route (well, some environmentalists would, but they bitch about literally everything).
Curiously, though, a wall is an ending financial/engineering challenge?
-Styopa
Straight from Trump's campaign website. In this case, he didn't say the instrument of payment would necessarily be a check per se, nevertheless the "Mexican government will contribute the funds". The plan was to pressure remittances to coerce the Mexican government into contributing the funds. There would be no need to put pressure on remittances if all along it was going to be a natural outcome of an improved trade deal.
https://assets.donaldjtrump.co...
On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31
CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include
money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to
includewire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that
no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien
first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United
States.
On day 2 Mexico will immediately protest. They receive approximately $24
billion a year in remittances from Mexican nationals working in the United
States. The majority of that amount comes from illegal aliens. It serves as de
facto welfare for poor families in Mexico. There is no significant social safety
net provided by the state in Mexico.
On day 3 tell Mexico that if the Mexican government will contribute the funds
needed to the United States to pay for the wall, the Trump Administration will
not promulgate the final rule, and the regulation will not go into effect.
From the same memo: "It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-
10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year
after year."
(The $24 billion is a reference to the remittances sent from Mexicans in America back to Mexico.) Again, not necessarily a check, but a "one-time payment".
The Democrats should provide some funding for the wall, but stipulate that it be constructed of colorful, diaphanous material.
Point made!
tone
The use of rocket launchers in home invasions is rare at best. Drug traffickers are regularly using tshirt cannons right now.
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right up until this month.
That makes sense. There's only 2 outcomes for them and The Wall, neither of them good:
1. Wall works, they're out of the job. And yes, the various private security Unions think about this. One of the big reasons we can't get marijuana decriminalized is the prison guard union campaigns heavily against it (which as a pro-Union lefty kinda breaks my mind, but such is reality).
2. Wall doesn't work, we just wasted $25-$50 billion dollars and they look like idiots.
So yeah, Wall is bad juju if you make your living catching illegals.
What's interesting is the change. It's not like the two points above have gone away. If I had to guess the GOP promised their leadership something.
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The US system doesn't give the President the powers to implement things like DACA, either, but that didn't stop Obama or the judges blocking ending it.
That's actually somewhat debatable, just Trump's Musl^H^H^HTravel ban (which I think was a lot more unconstitutional) the courts give the President a lot of latitude on how to enforce laws, particularly immigration law.
But there is no law that gives Trump the authority to expropriate a bunch of land and build a giant wall on the Mexican border. And certainly none that gives him the money to do so, that's unambiguously outside of his authority.
You'll find that the majority of what the federal government does these days is things it isn't supposed to have the authority to do.
Which is a completely different question from asking whether the Executive branch of the government can allocate money which is explicitly under the authority of the Legislative branch.
I stole this Sig
Some 800 years ago the Han Chinese built the Great Wall of China to keep out Genghis Khan and the Mongols. It was a thunderous failure--the Mongols simply rode their horses around it. The Great Wall of Trump will be equally ineffective.
Where in the constitution did that happen? ATC on private/state property (airports) should be handled private/state.
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Since most of you guys are smart, I was wondering whether this would be a better idea: a very big, deep trench. Since it would at least slow people down, it could be monitored 24/7 by drones (way) overhead, where border police could deal with people trying to cross. It would be cheaper to make, I would think.
We had plenty of immigrants rushing the military presence at the border on a daily basis. They are burning flags. MS13 and other gangs/drugs/gun runners now run their own government in portions of Mexico, Guatemala, Brazil, Belize and a number of other South American states, some argue even a number of Texas towns where police don't want to go in certain neighborhoods at night.
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Dogs do as well. Why do we have locks at all if it never stops anything if you're not home? Generally it takes more skill, time and preparation to penetrate any defense, typically your locks, doors and walls give you enough time to respond when someone does break in and increases the risk to get caught. It takes about 1h to cross the view distance of a border patrol officer without wall. If a wall delays a group about 1-2 hours, this doubles or quadruples the effectiveness of the same number of border patrol agents.
Given we pay $2B in salaries per year just to patrol the border wall, a wall over doubling the presence of border patrol would save money 2-3 years down the line.
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I hope he vetoes EVERY SINGLE BILL they pass until they get a 2/3rds majority or a rock-solid 15 foot concrete wall.
Thank goodness they don't make 16-foot ladders.
But I admit, the Maginot Line held the Germans at bay for nearly half an hour so it wasn't completely ineffective.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
El Paso's wall works, it cut illegal immigration by 89%. Not quite the 99% of Israel, but nothing to sneeze at either, eh?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Walls work for El Paso, TX, what makes you think they won't work in other locations? When about 89% of border patrol agents say a wall will help them do their job, why do you insist otherwise? Do you believe you know more about enforcement of border laws and the issues/problems faced than the actual agents on the border?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Visa overstays are between 25 and 40 percent of illegal aliens in the US. Most come across the border illegally, hence the wall.
Regardless of the legal/Constitutional issues, fact is that ATC workers are going unpaid for now. This is not a good thing.
The plan is already there.
We have data that shows border barriers SIGNIFICANTLY (unless 80-90% reduction isn't "significant" enough for you) reduce overland illegal immigration, human trafficking and drug trafficking.
The plan is to erect a barrier over most of the southern border in conjunction with natural barriers to funnel most human traffic to legitimate ports of entry.
Combine that with human patrols and technology (cameras, drones, etc).
A border barrier and the illegal immigration coming across is NOT some "new" or "sudden" issue.
It's been a problem FOR DECADES. And people are SICK of it.
The "screaming toddler" in this scenario are the DEMOCRATS They won't negotiate. They don't give a crap if it throws their constituencies (including the DACA recipients) under the bus.
Basically all the stuff being talked about was PERFECTLY acceptable to the Dems when Obama or anyone named "Clinton" talked about it.
This is pure, malicious political sabotage by the Democrats. And this is why they aren't arguing FACTS. They're arguing "feelings".
How is a wall "immoral"? Do YOU live in a gazebo on a golf course?
And if you want to talk about immoral? How moral is it that some of these industries "can't work without illegal immigration"?
You're essentially creating a permanently near-slave economic sub-class based on the argument of "Who will pick our cotton?"
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Isn't there some kind of compromise that can be reached where when can you give the wall launchers some sort of symbolic gesture that helps them with their chronic psychological insecurity issues, it keeps their mental distress out of national policy? Should we be paying for therapist for the fearful instead of walls 2 reinforce their paranoia? It's a lot more proficient to treat and contain their paranoia, then to make country dance to the tune I'm paranoid incompetence. Drug dealers only a problem because there is no oversight due to their business being illegal. as soon as you prohibit something completely you lose all control over it. Because then it goes on your Ground. and we are just as many problems with us born citizens raping other us born citizens. You can't distinguish based on rape, because rape is common in any society of people. The more accurate the documentation the higher the reported incidence of rape. The actual occurrences of rape are just as stable as they ever were because it's a natural effect of allowing humans to exist. It's in conflict with our existing conscious morals, but still common to anywhere people exist
The murder statistics are nonsense. Saying "Mexicans murder people in America, therefore we should have a wall", is as silly as saying "Californians murder people in Nevada, therefore we should have a wall".
No, it's not silly. Because Californians living legally in the US are different than people who we should be preventing from being here when they cheat to do so. If we can reduce some of the tens of thousands of crimes committed in the US by those who are illegally present, that's tens of thousands of crimes fewer we have to deal with. People who end up alive, instead of dead.
Let me guess. You're going to say that there are simply a fixed number of crimes, and if the illegals who commit thousands and thousands of violent felonies every year weren't in the country, then law-abiding citizens would step up and commit those crimes instead? Do you realize how absurd your position on this actually is? How about we just use that old liberal/progressive staple: "If we can save just one life by [banning/regulating/taking-away-liberty-in-some-way], then it's worth doing." So, if we can prevent thousands of violent felonies from being committed by people, many of whom have been repeatedly deported and who simply walk back across the border because there's nothing stopping them or even slowing them down, doesn't that more than qualify for a Progressive "Think Of The Children" blessing for whatever method contributes to that end? No? I see.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Show some data to make your point about the efficacy of walls against migration (the topic).
If you go back to the start of this thread, it claims that part of the human cost of not having a wall is death by drug overdose. The efficacy of a wall in clamping down on drug trafficking is entirely on topic.
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El Paso's wall works, it cut illegal immigration by 89%. Not quite the 99% of Israel, but nothing to sneeze at either, eh?
So it keeps out the refugees, but not the bad hombres?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Tunnels take time to dig and create a single entry point that can be monitored more easily.
The men in The Great Escape based upon a true story built multiple working tunnels in a prison camp monitored by Nazis 24/7. Hundreds of tunnels were built under the Berlin Wall under constant East German surveillance. See the movie "Der Tunnel" based upon a true story. Great move and proves you wrong.
I have clear memories of Trump stating it was going Mexico the one to pay for the wall so, what's the problem with the wall not having a line in USA's budget? Wasn't exactly that what Trump expected -and promised?
Because Mexico isn't going to pay for it. You are, providing it ever happens, which it won't. Because Trump is full of shit.
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Your estimate appears to be low. According this fact check, around 40-45% of illegal immigrants were overstays during the 90s. There is no real current reporting on the source of illegal immigration right now, the department that previous published that report no longer exists. However, that was near the peak of illegal border crossings, they peaked in 2000, and since then border crossings have dropped by around 70% (they are now the lowest they have been since 1971), and it seems the best estimate is that around two thirds (or more) of new illegal immigrants are overstays.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Well, if you want to reduce the absolute number of violent crimes in America, clearly the more efficient option would be to deport all the legal Americans and leave only the illegal immigrants behind. That would reduce the violent crime rate by far more than deporting all the illegal immigrants, because not only do illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than American citizens, they are also fewer of them.
Clearly, you are just not willing to go too far enough to get the results you want.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
How do you know the comparative numbers? All you can possibly compare is the numbers that are caught. As usual, the Left promoting stinky brown statistics.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
And, who made Robert Frost a social expert.
Walls make good neighbors, as it delineates a property boundary and reduces conflict.
Contracts make for good business partners, as they delineate responsibilities and reduce conflict.
Fences and walls serve very good purposes. Why else do you think they are so popular?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
If you didn't read the news, you wouldn't know there is a federal shutdown.
If you didn't read the news you also wouldn't know who is president, if we were at war with anyone, or if your favourite football team won the game last night (unless you happened to be at the game).
That's why it's called the news.
There is literally no impact on regular Americans outside of DC.
And that is literally the dumbest and most ignorant statement I've seen on slashdot, and I browse at -1. Maybe you should actually read the news at some point. You'll see the affects of the shutdown are significant and go well beyond the people who have missed a paycheck right during peak credit card repayment season.