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Tesla Proposes Microgrids With Solar and Batteries To Power Greek Islands (electrek.co)

Posted by BeauHD on from the new-and-improved dept.

Tesla is proposing ways to modernize the electric grid of Greece's many islands in the Mediterranean sea with microgrids and renewable energy to reduce their dependence on fossil fuels. "Several Greek islands are relatively remote and rely heavily on fossil fuels to power their electric grid," notes Electrek. From the report: The Greek Minister of Environment and Energy, Mr. George Stathakis, confirmed last week that they have met with Tesla to discuss the deployment of microgrids in Greek islands. They issued the following statement (translated from Greek via Capital.gr): "[...] The extremely interesting thing that emerged from the meeting is that technological progress has now significantly reduced the cost of energy storage. At the same time, successful competitions for new RES investments in Greece, led to an equally significant reduction in the cost of energy production. As a result, the conversion of the islands to RES, apart from being environmentally useful, is now also economically viable. In this context, cooperation with Tesla can prove to be extremely beneficial, as the American company officials have highlighted, showing strong interest in the initiatives promoted by the Ministry for 'smart' and 'energy' islands."

Tesla has reportedly already suggested a pilot project to demonstrate their microgrid system in the region. The government would like it to be on the island of Limnos. The idea is to install a large solar array and combine it with an energy storage facility to store the excess energy during the day and use it at night when the sun is not shining.

85 comments

  1. Re: Thanks Rei by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sell well known technology to ignorant island folk.

  2. Re: Thanks Rei by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So boring. We need a mystical story about the pioneer 10 again

  3. When the sun is not shining by Red_Forman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The idea is to install a large solar array and combine it with an energy storage facility to store the excess energy during the day and use it at night when the sun is not shining.

    Even if the average IQ of Slashdot readers has gone down in the last decade I think everyone knows what "night" means.

    Thanks, dumbass.

    1. Re:When the sun is not shining by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Funny

      You've evidently never been to Northern Alaska in the summer, when night is quite bright. Irritatingly so...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    2. Re:When the sun is not shining by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1, Funny

      The idea is to install a large solar array and combine it with an energy storage facility to store the excess energy during the day and use it at night when the sun is not shining.

      Even if the average IQ of Slashdot readers has gone down in the last decade I think everyone knows what "night" means.

      Thanks, dumbass.

      You overestimate how smart people are. It's degenerated to where they can't even tell what gender they are or which bathroom to use correctly. Citation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    3. Re: When the sun is not shining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are paying attention to other people in the bathroom enough to notice whether or not they have a dick, you are a pervert and you are the problem.

      Also, if we build a hundred billion dollar wall and make it easier to watch the border, how many border patrol agents can fire? Is it none? I haven't heard any number from them showing how it will pay for itself in reduced border patrol agent costs.

    4. Re:When the sun is not shining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny thing is that the sun is always shining.

      Then something that you use when the sun is not shining is something that is never used.

      Night is something else entirely.

    5. Re:When the sun is not shining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The sun is never shining (locally) at night. It's literally part of the definition of night. timeanddate.com has a lot of info on when is it day, when is it civil twilight, nautical twilight, astronomical twilight and night. If the sun is still shining at solar midnight, congrats, you don't have night. Check out timeanddates day/night cycle for something like Alert, Nunavut, Canada, right now they don't have day, and in June they don't have night.

  4. Does Greece have money again then? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    Last time we checked the Greeks were broke.

    1. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 2

      Greece probably can apply for EU green energy loans or something.

    2. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Some nice Germans will be happy to lend them money as long as they buy German manufactured products with it!

    3. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Schaeuble, is that you?

    4. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Last time we checked the Greeks were broke.

      They have finally recovered last year.

    5. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by Antiocheian · · Score: 2

      Have we ?

    6. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by hipp5 · · Score: 1

      Last time we checked the Greeks were broke.

      Well "Greeks" aren't one homogenous blob. I imagine some Greeks and some Greek governments are broke and some are not/

      Also, if the ROI is high enough and the risk low, it shouldn't be hard to get financing.

    7. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      In theory yes. In practice no.

      The last project was something like a 200 MW wind park on an island.
      They pocketed the money, build the wind park but never connected it to the grid. They claimed: the money was for the wind park, not to actually make it operational.

      They are for many tricking very far down on the queue for receiving any payments. Don't let me talk about the island with 10,000 inhabitants from which 6,000 unfortunately were blind ....

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    8. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by careysub · · Score: 1

      The last project was something like a 200 MW wind park on an island. They pocketed the money, build the wind park but never connected it to the grid.

      Citation needed.

      This sounds like one of those "made up facts" since connecting it to "the grid" is cheap and produces free money (the value of the electricity). Indeed Googling does not find this "fact" anywhere.

      Possibly you are confused by the islands not being connected to the grid because - islands.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    9. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Most islands relying on fossil fuels for power spend absurd amounts of money on it. I bet the payback wouldn't be very long at all.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    10. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      That's just what they tell the tax authorities.

      It's amazing how many luxury cars and swimming pools people who earn nothing can own.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re: Does Greece have money again then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't look hard enough. Literally the first result when I typed in "wind farm abandoned".

      Try harder next time, maybe this isn't the line of work for you. Since your brain can't figure out how to research.
      Sad.

    12. Re: Does Greece have money again then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgot to link: https://citizentv.co.ke/business/kinangop-wind-park-project-abandoned-over-land-disputes-115654/

    13. Re:Does Greece have money again then? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I'm not confused. This one of the cases why the EU and Germany refused to pump more money into Greece. However that was 15 years ago ... no idea about the current status.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  5. Solar is ideal for the Greek islands by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Informative

    Solar is ideal for the Greek islands. They have been building wind-power generators on some (e.g. the Cyclades), however the peak energy usage on islands is exactly when the sun is shining hot. The battery requirements should not be that great, especially compared to other scenarios.
    I've had a solar roof on mainland Greece for several years now, which, at 10kW nominal (Renesola Virtus II hybrid) was predicted to produce 12-13 MWh/year due to its suboptimal E/W orientation, but it is generating over 14 MWh every year, and some islands are even more sunny from that mountainous area. For something geek-cool check out the bottom of this page to see how my solar roof "perceived" a partial solar eclipse ;)

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re: Solar is ideal for the Greek islands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for sharing. Hope to visit someday =]

    2. Re:Solar is ideal for the Greek islands by skegg · · Score: 1

      Very dramatic ir photos of the eclipse. Nicely done!

    3. Re:Solar is ideal for the Greek islands by POPE+Mad+Mitch · · Score: 1

      Solar is ideal for the Greek islands.

      well yes, but it has been too expensive in the past, over the decades one constant when visiting various countries around the Mediterranean, especially Greece, is that every single building would have a solar panel on the roof, they would be solar-thermal water heaters, because they were cheap and it is an obvious cost saving. These days, as the pricing has improved, I imagine there are a lot of solar-PV panels as well.

    4. Re:Solar is ideal for the Greek islands by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      The proper model, is distributed solar, with wind power and of course, sewerage collected and than the methane generated collected to power gas turbines, preferably with the waste heat plumbed to heated pools and spas.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Solar is ideal for the Greek islands by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      They could, power Las Vegas, by burning, your superfluous commas.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  6. Re:in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it’s anything like his previous proposals nothing will ever come of it.

  7. Missed opportunity by seoras · · Score: 1

    Most of us reading this are probably thinking the same thing - how does someone who's broke pay for some new tech?
    Ever since the Greek financial woes began I've been saying that they are missing a huge opportunity in legalising weed, selling it to the huge number of tourists they get each year and reaping the tax from that. They have the perfect climate for growing it.
    Nothing would say F.U to their debtors, like Germany, than letting their citizens get high and wasted for two weeks in the sun each year.
    This presents a perfect cover story for why they need to sell dope, something that a Californian business would get behind too.

    1. Re:Missed opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're confusing capital expenditures with current account expenditures. Even with Greece's shitty credit rating they should be able to sell bonds to finance the solar panels. If the economics are right, and it sounds like they are excellent -- expensive to run fossil fuel plants, lots of sunlight, peak consumption matches peak output -- then current account spending will actually fall. They will see short term gains followed up by long term sustainability. Sounds frigging great to me.

    2. Re:Missed opportunity by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Germany will offer a loan to the German energy sector.
      They will enter Greece and build the needed networks. At German prices and the full cost of transport, experts, translation added.
      Greek energy users can then pay German loans back with interest as they use solar power.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Missed opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who would invest in a green-Greek bond ? Admit it: oil is king; worth a fuck! Solar is a Trotsky-slut bitch dealing 3rd rate blojobs.

    4. Re:Missed opportunity by hazardPPP · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most of us reading this are probably thinking the same thing - how does someone who's broke pay for some new tech?

      Greece isn't broke. That was 8-10 years ago. Greece recorded a budget surplus (0.6% and 0.8% of GDP respectively) in the past two years. That is with all the debt payments included. Without the debt, Greece's primary surplus last year was about 3.2% of GDP. In 2017, it was 4.2%. So yes, they can pay for new stuff, especially since solar panels and batteries on islands don't need to be necessarily paid for directly by the central government.

  8. Greek style trip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trip to Greece means something else where I come frum and it's a nice place to visit.

  9. Uh-huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They propose lots of things. Musk->jack->shit

  10. Where is the nuclear only crowd? by JabrTheHut · · Score: 0, Troll

    Where is the nuclear only crowd? Have we finally found a scenario where they won't recommend a nuclear option?

    --
    Work like no one is watching. Dance like you've never been hurt. Make love like you don't need the money.
    1. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by sfcat · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where is the nuclear only crowd? Have we finally found a scenario where they won't recommend a nuclear option?

      Ok troll...the Greek island grids are small so we can build batteries large enough to backup their tiny grids. And that's a great solution. Doing the same things for CA (or the US or anywhere on a continent really) would be an entirely different proposition requiring the drastic increase (several fold) in global production of the raw materials for whatever type of battery you build. Learn to do math and do some research and you will find quite quickly how stupid the solar/wind only proposals for large countries really are. As for Greece, its a great place to build a solar/wind/tidal only battery backed grid and you don't need to strip mine most of Chile and Australia to do it. Now that's you've trolled the nuclear folks for the day, go get your paycheck from the natural gas folks greenie...

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    2. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by iggymanz · · Score: 0

      oh, you mean molten salt storage needing that rare earth sodium chloride?

      we don't need nuclear any more

    3. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 1

      Just like Germany, Greece can contemplate a large renewable energy sector because they have easy and cheap access to nuclear power. They don't have the power plants themselves, but they import from their neighbors.

    4. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Camembert · · Score: 1

      It doesn’t need to be batteries. You could for example pump water to a higher plane during the day with surplus energy, and use a turbine at night when you let it flow down. I understand that something similar is done occasionally with other energy sources.

    5. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Straw-man much? I hardly know anyone proposing going nuclear only. The most sensible thing is to have nuclear for baseload, solar for mid-day peak demand and batteries for evening peak demand. There are many places in the world where solar is predictable, albeit intermittent. Such places are, for example, southern USA, Mexico, Australia, southern Europe, North Africa. These places are really good for solar. There are places, like Scandinavia, where hydro is predictable, because they have mountains and it rains a lot. Some places have predicable, stable wind patterns. Such places are good for deployment of wind turbines.

      There is also the demand side. Some places, like these Greek islands don't have much industry and their power demand at night is very small. In principle they need solar for the mid-day peak demand, and enough storage for the evening peak demand and a bit more storage for everything else. Some places, where there is a lot of industry need stable power supply, such as nuclear or hydro.

    6. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Strider- · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In this case, the islands are quite literally islanded micro-grids that are not connected to the outside world. There are no undersea power cables, instead they rely on diesel/fossil fuel generation.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    7. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by sfcat · · Score: 1, Informative

      It doesn’t need to be batteries. You could for example pump water to a higher plane during the day with surplus energy, and use a turbine at night when you let it flow down. I understand that something similar is done occasionally with other energy sources.

      You understand very little about power apparently. Pumping water uphill is at best about a 30% energy conversion. Electricity to kinetic energy stored in the form of water at a higher elevation. Then capturing back that kinetic energy back to electricity is about 30-40%. So any power you put into your idea, needs to be sold at ~10x the price to make it break even. And that's before you deal with the cost of building an artificial lake and a dam. Even in the warped energy market of CA, price only varies about 3x each day so its not a viable idea either from a physics or business perspective. All of those problem plus you have to destroy a beautiful mountain valley too. That's why nobody is doing it. Its a terrible idea...

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    8. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by sfcat · · Score: 1

      oh, you mean molten salt storage needing that rare earth sodium chloride?

      we don't need nuclear any more

      First, nobody uses NaCl. They do use floride or chloride salts, but not NaCl as if the Na separates from its ionic bonds, its explosive. Second, conversion to and from molten salts is about 45% each way. So it has the same problem with pumped hyrdo, when you do the 2 conversions (from and back to electricity) you get about 16-20% conversion meaning the power needs to increase in value 5-6x from the time its purchased/generated to the time its used. For comparison, in the CA market the daily swings are about 3x.

      The choices are nuclear, some magic battery or flywheel technology that doesn't exist and doesn't look like it will in our lifetimes or natural gas. Guess which one you are picking...

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    9. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Storing heat for electricity is a bad idea and lacks imagination. A huge amount of electricity and fossil fuels used in industry are used to generate heat. Molten salt/silicon can store heat directly for reuse so the losses are tiny. This provides a huge saving for industry. There are molten silicon companies doing this right now.

      "Industrial heat makes up two-thirds of industrial energy demand and almost one-fifth of global energy consumption." - IEA

    10. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Informative

      You don't have to build all required battery capacity overnight though. And I'd point out that going all nuclear, or at least replacing all fossil fuel plants with nuclear, would require a several fold increase in the supply of nuclear fuel and reprocessing too.

      At the moment lithium batteries are getting a lot of investment as they can be used for many different things, but for grid scale we will probably want to use other tech like low temperature sodium sulphur too. At this point it's not really a question of developing the technology, it's already there. It's a question of what is the most economical and what are the incumbents going to do to prevent it devaluing their assets.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The butthurt Rei and his modding friends don't really like the truth about the Chinese garbage that fElon Musk is peddling.

    12. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by hazardPPP · · Score: 1

      Most of the Greek islands already use renewables, and they could work fine on candlelight and wood, as they allegedly have since the times of Homer.

      Mod parent Funny!

      (emphasis mine)

    13. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The round-trip energy efficiency of Pupmed Storage Hyrdo (PSH) varies between 70%–80%

      "Energy storage - Packing some power". The Economist. 2011-03-03. Retrieved 2012-03-11.
      Jacob, Thierry.Pumped storage in Switzerland - an outlook beyond 2000 Stucky. Accessed: 13 February 2012.
      Levine, Jonah G. Pumped Hydroelectric Energy Storage and Spatial Diversity of Wind Resources as Methods of Improving Utilization of Renewable Energy Sources page 6, University of Colorado, December 2007. Accessed: 12 February 2012.
      Yang, Chi-Jen. Pumped Hydroelectric Storage Duke University. Accessed: 12 February 2012.

    14. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bath County Pumped Storage Station claims 79% Overall efficiency and Large modern Water Turbines are commonly operating at greater than 90% efficiency.

    15. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You understand very little about power apparently.
      And you have no clue at all.

      Pumping water uphill is at best about a 30% energy conversion.
      No it is 99% for floating down effective and something like 95% for pumping up, so we are at roughly 94% efficiency. Idiot ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Second, conversion to and from molten salts is about 45% each way.
      No it is not, idiot!

      Heat transfers nearly 100% ... making heat into electricity via a turbine is your 45% (actually less as molten salt is not that warm).

      WTF, stop talking about energy, power, electricity or storage ... you have no clue at all!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    17. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      We are talking about the islands, idiot.
      They are not connected to any mainland or international grid, idiot.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    18. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by vtcodger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You understand very little about power apparently. Pumping water uphill is at best about a 30% energy conversion.

      Closer to 70%. The New York State Power Authority has been operating pumped storage facilities for power generated in off hours at Niagara Falls for decades. If it didn't make economic sense, they wouldn't be doing it.

      BUT the economics only work if you use the facility every day and there are not a lot of sites suitable for pumped storage.in typical terrain.

      Google Gilboa-Blenheim for more information on an actual facility that has been in operation for about half a century.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    19. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      You're right. It doesn't HAVE to be batteries. There are other energy storage options, but to date only pumped storage has been able to actually deliver acceptable performance -- 70-plus percent efficiency, costs as low as a few cents per kwhr. Problems with pumped storage -- shortage of good sites, storage costs are a function of frequency of use (i.e. it's cheap to store energy for a few hours, not as cheap to store energy for weeks/months), difficult to scale to small installations..

      On the bright side, there are a zillion battery technologies -- each with it's own unique combination of capabilities and problems. Tesla would presumably use Lithium-ion because Lion is what they do. But grid storage doesn't really need Lion's high energy density. For example multi-megawatt Sodium-Sulfur installations have been deployed here and there around the world in grid backup applications. Strong point -- Sodium and Sulfur are abundant and cheap. Drawback -- tanks full of molten sodium and sulfur probably aren't something you want to live in close proximity to.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    20. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by JabrTheHut · · Score: 1

      I love the fact that suggesting nuclear power is not viable gets you accusations of being in the pay of natural gas miners, but suggestions that nuclear or coal proponents are in the pay of their respective industries are met with angry denials and/or outrage.

      As for the reference to strip mining whole continents - exactly how much uranium is required to run the whole world on nuclear power for 100 years? What will it cost to do it with unconventional nuclear reactors? Ignore the expense of storing and transporting millions of tons of highly radioactive waste, I know you were going to anyway.

      Solar, wind and storage have their issues too. But the wind is always blowing somewhere, the South Australian Tesla battery is doing very well, and pumped storage and geothermal are under-utilised right now. Battery technology is improving every year. It’s a safer bet than hoping for a magical nuclear solution.

      --
      Work like no one is watching. Dance like you've never been hurt. Make love like you don't need the money.
    21. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 1

      Fuck off, ignoramus. Poland has how many billions now?

    22. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      What has Poland to do with the islands of Greece?

      Why are you posting your bullshit here?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    23. Re:Where is the nuclear only crowd? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      You are making things up. sodium chloride indeed is used in some systems mixed with other common salts. Sodium nitrate in others. Potassium salts also used, and you think elemental potassium is safe too? A mixture of lithium nitrate and sodium chloride can be used.

      You don't understand thermodynamics either, 70 percent of the thermal energy can be converted to electricity. Sure, not the 90 percent of battery storage, but this is free solar power we're talking about, not something from a fuel that costs money.

      Your choices are stupid, you make strawman arguments for a dirty polluting power source that leaves deadly waste, which is nuclear.

  11. If Tesla is selling batteries that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Big enough to power a whole island - that's a lot of lithium. Combine that with the marketing efforts in, e.g., Australia and elsewhere.

    How does that square with Tesla's ambition to make electric vehicles commonplace? There's only so many batteries being produced, they can't be put in cars *and* power grids *and* people's homes. Not for long, anyway.

  12. Re:in other news by meglon · · Score: 2

    https://electrek.co/2018/09/24... or it could be like this.

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  13. Depart of Redundancy Department by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...store the excess energy during the day and use it at night when the sun is not shining.

    I'm shocked to learn that at night the Sun is not shining.

    I have it on good authority that the Sun is actually shining at night, just not where it's, ahem, night.

  14. Re: in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes that. One in which he is thrown around in a sea of normality so acute he thinks it is real

  15. Re:in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they can’t fulfill a simple contract even though the date of New York bought them a $1,000,000,000 factory.

  16. Tesla help PG&E or EBCE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PG&E (Pacific Gas and Electric) has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Maybe Tesla can work with them, or with alternative energy companies like East Bay Community Energy (EBCE), to help supply power.

    Or Tesla might help large numbers of customers get power off the grid, using their solar panels and power walls. (For that to take off, Tesla should lower their prices.)

    1. Re:Tesla help PG&E or EBCE? by sfcat · · Score: 2

      PG&E (Pacific Gas and Electric) has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Maybe Tesla can work with them, or with alternative energy companies like East Bay Community Energy (EBCE), to help supply power.

      Or Tesla might help large numbers of customers get power off the grid, using their solar panels and power walls. (For that to take off, Tesla should lower their prices.)

      Good idea, PG&E won't be bankrupt again for at least a month if you force them to buy even more overpriced power they don't want. CA is already completely oversupplied with power generation and doesn't needs more. PG&E is declaring bankruptcy to get out of liability for all the recent wildfires. They know huge settlements are coming against them from the wildfires. That combined with the sweetheart deals they were forced to sign to buy rather expensive solar and wind at losses and its no surprise they want a reset. And that's what a PG&E bankruptcy is, a reset. They declare bankruptcy on a regular basis for various reasons (3x in the last 20 years) including their own bad management at times (see San Bruno, 2008) but more significantly the regulations that force them to buy renewable power at huge losses.

      And I'm sure that Elon is willing to use the entire year's output of a gigafactory to build a battery that could backup CA's grid for an entire hour. The CA grid is entirely too big for battery backups to be useful for anything more than load shifting (which we don't really need in CA). EBCE is a feel good initiative and nothing more. They can't bend the laws of physics any more than PG&E or the regulators can and will likely only make even more of a mess of the situation than the last round of do-gooders did.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
  17. Re:Greeks to awake! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not a grid *among* islands. It's many grids, one on each island.

    Maybe you should calm down and look more carefully. Berk

  18. Re:in other news by Barsteward · · Score: 1

    Nothing wrong with that - they want to hand it to a local contractor - good for local employment

    --
    "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  19. replace the batteries by bigtreeman · · Score: 1

    and Tesla gets to replace the batteries every 10 years
    win win for Tesla

    --
    Go well
    1. Re:replace the batteries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, unless, of course, the german subordinates, who pose as the greek (so-called ) left wing government,
      opt for the obvious technical solution for such a project, the good old Edison battery.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93iron_battery
      NIckel is quite abundant in Greece btw.
      [ from a financial perspective, Edison batteries, due to their tolerance and long life,
        are the obvious solution for any immobile large scale batteries, ie buildings]

      And that is, if they actually need any batteries at all, as the more obvious solution would be to
      combine such a project with wind power accompanied by desalination and pumped hydro storage for excess energy.
      ( For non greeks who worry about PHES energy efficiency, greek islands do have a severe water shortage problem;
      during summertime its common to import water).

      But no worries, since these are all foo projects never meant to be implemented.

      Tesla execs get to have a nice vacation in greece and show off a powerpoint to some ministry guys,
      both get some good old 15min publicity, to be used as needed : Tesla to get more loans,
      Greek Gov to show off how green and tech savvy they are to attract more liberal voters, as there are elections coming up.

      P.S> On a funny slightly relevant note, Greece is the only country worldwide (AFAIK) that prohibits small wind turbines from connecting to the grid!
      Funny, since small wind turbines are ideal for the greek islands,
      which are quite windy with high gusts that render many large wind turbines inefficient.
      [ see www.rae.gr/geo/?lang=EN and http://www.cres.gr/kape/datainfo/maps.htm (choose the 2nd option in the drop down upper left)
      and press on an island on the map to see mean annual wind speed measurements
      i.e. http://www.cres.gr/kape/images/maps/img_pre2.htm ]

      Not funny, because this is due to an unprecedented bureaucratic fuckup, typical of greeks.
      (the law that prohibits connection of small wind turbines to the grid, is the one voted in order to promote their usage!!!
      As interpreted and implemented by RAE (greek Regulatory Authority of Energy) and the ministry of energy...
      The greek state has been sentenced by the greek supreme court for this case!)
         

    2. Re:replace the batteries by samwichse · · Score: 1

      Edison batteries have a terrible charge-discharge efficiency. It's 65% under perfectly ideal conditions, and something like 50-55% under actual usage.

  20. Just get the money up front. by ruddk · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hi Tesla.
    Just get the money up front.

    Best regards
    The rest of the EU

    --
    L'Idiot
  21. Re:in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They didn’t hand it off to anyone. They completely bailed on the project.

  22. PEDO MUSK Knows Lots of GREEK STYLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such a PEDO.

  23. Re: Thanks Rei by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Peejafiddlerist!

  24. Re: in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL. You fanboys are something. Nobody handed anybody anything, they up and left.