Giant Leaf For Mankind? China Germinates First Seed on Moon (theguardian.com)

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Giant Leaf For Mankind? China Germinates First Seed on Moon (theguardian.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @04:41AM from the marching-forward dept.

A small green shoot is growing on the moon after a cotton seed germinated onboard a Chinese lunar lander, scientists said. From a report: The sprout has emerged from a lattice-like structure inside a canister after the Chang'e 4 lander touched down earlier this month, according to a series of photos released by the Advanced Technology Research Institute at Chongqing University. "This is the first time humans have done biological growth experiments on the lunar surface," said Xie Gengxin, who led the design of the experiment, on Tuesday. Plants have been grown previously on the International Space Station, but this is the first time a seed has sprouted on the moon. The ability to grow plants in space is seen as crucial for long-term space missions and establishing human outposts elsewhere in the solar system, such as Mars.

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And so? by XXongo · 2019-01-15 04:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm really not sure what this is supposed to prove. Has anybody ever suggested, or is there any reason to believe, that seeds would not sprout on the moon?
1. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 04:50 · Score: 0
  
  And the suckage does not prove anything.... march on
2. Re:And so? by jellomizer · 2019-01-15 05:04 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  There is the 672 hour lunar day and night which could be an issue for plant growth, the the technology to make a bubble that can support prolong life in a hostile environment like the moon.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
3. Re:And so? by Nkwe · 2019-01-15 05:05 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Well it least it gave us a punderful headline.
4. Re:And so? by Thud457 · 2019-01-15 05:05 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Should've sent kudzu, the moon would have had a breathable atmosphere by the end of Summer.
  
  --
  the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
5. Re:And so? by careysub · 2019-01-15 05:08 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  After the sprouting comes growth. No one has ever raised a plant in a gravity field of 1/6 G. Never. Schemes to simulate it on Earth do not really do that, and while a centrifuge in orbit can do a proper simulation, no one has ever operated such a centrifuge over a plants life cycle.
  
  --
  Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
6. Re:And so? by AmiMoJo · 2019-01-15 05:09 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  They are trying to create a completely self contained environment in which plants and fruit flies can live, and observe the effects of low gravity on them.
  Sure, we assumed it would be fine, but it's a good idea to prove that assumption before sending tonnes of soil and plants up there with a view to sustaining human life. It's also a useful test of the sealed environment idea and technology, in an environment subject to extreme temperature swings.
  Much of that tech will be applicable to Mars too.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
7. Re:And so? by SomePoorSchmuck · 2019-01-15 05:17 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Well it least it gave us a punderful headline.
  If you like that pun, just wait for the eventual follow-up when they harvest the cotton and announce "Chinese Make One Giant Reap For Mankind!"
  
  --
  
  Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
8. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  /s /s /s /s
9. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:29 · Score: 0
  
  Great Leaf Forward?
10. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:33 · Score: 0
  
  In science you don't truly "know" something until its experimentally observed. We also have next to no data on medium/long term plant growth in a 1/6 gravity environment. I believe that it has been found that some plants can (at least initially) have difficulty with zero-g as they don't know which way to grow their roots and which way to grow their stems. Is 1/6 gravity enough to overcome that or do they still require special setups/handling?
11. Re:And so? by religionofpeas · 2019-01-15 05:35 · Score: -1, Troll
  
  before sending tonnes of soil and plants up there
  That's a stupid idea, no matter what. The moon is a dull gray rock, there is as much reason for people living there as there is for people living in a mine shaft or at the bottom of the ocean, or in the middle of an empty desert.
12. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:43 · Score: 0
  
  And yet we have done it in microgravity which seems far more challenging.
13. Re:And so? by kenai_alpenglow · 2019-01-15 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  A lot of people *like* Phoenix...
14. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:48 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly. Who would build cities in some horribly inhospitable place like the middle of a desert? People go live places because they're pleasant to live in, not because there are things there they can trade for the wealth to live comfortably...
15. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  We already know that "it would be fine" is not true due to the biodome experiments. Trees and other freestanding plants sort of disintegrated and fell over. Without wind stressing and breaking fibers, the plants did not have enough strength to become rigid. It's like having an animal spend their entire life in a state of stupor with no muscle strain or growth.
  The two relevant stressors are wind and gravity. Without both, freestanding plants like cotton fail to thrive.
  We all know how much you hate western everything but you could at least look up the decades old science before magically conjuring modpoints for yourself and brownnose the most dangerous nationalist ethnostate on the planet.
16. Re:And so? by Nkwe · 2019-01-15 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Ding ding ding - Winner!
17. Re:And so? by mark-t · 2019-01-15 05:59 · Score: 1
  
  Lack of any atmosphere, perhaps?
  Oh, and is it just me, or did this article headline remind anyone of the series 1 premiere of The Orville?
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
18. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:20 · Score: 0
  
  The only aspect that can't be duplicated easily in a greenhouse is the lower gravity, and that has already been done in the ISS. This is a nice PR stunt but nothing more.
19. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:28 · Score: 0
  
  Regardless of whether itâ(TM)s more challenging or not, itâ(TM)s a different experiment. Up until now itâ(TM)s been 0G or 1G. This is a worthwhile experiment.
20. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry, I canâ(TM)t tell if youâ(TM)re being sarcastic or not.
21. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:37 · Score: 0
  
  You're kind of stupid for saying it's a stupid idea. Scientifically, there's a lot to be gained by having a small (or eventually, someday, large) colony on the Moon. Don't be so naive.
22. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  A centrifuge would need to be pretty large to give you a valid test. This is because the simulated gravity is higher at the outer edge where the seed would germinate, then gets weaker quickly as you get "higher" from the edge. The plant seed might start in 1/6th gravity but it might be generating leaves at 1/10th gravity as an example.
23. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:38 · Score: 0
  
  The two relevant stressors are wind and gravity. Without both, freestanding plants like cotton fail to thrive.
  Both problems easily solvable at same time with centrifuge.
24. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:44 · Score: 0
  
  What is this ridiculous obsession with Mars lately?
  The atmosphere is poisonous.
  The soil is poisonous.
  Everything there is corrosive.
  There's no hope of terraforming it.
  And from a purely economic viewpoint, why spend all the energy and resources to lift sufficient mass to build habitation off of Earth, just to drop into another damned gravity well that it has no hope of leaving?
  What we need is:
  - Stable orbital manufacturing structures in the lagrange points.
  - Capture of asteroids for materiels processing and manufacture at said facilities.
  - Use the generated resources to go further out, straight to the asteroid belt, maybe to Jupiter's moons if the radiation problem is solvable.
  - The ultimate goal is mobile self-sufficient colonies such that when we need to, we can consider leaving the solar system entirely.
25. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Why would you assume a 672 hour day/night cycle is difficult for plants? I mean, you are aware that plants grow in that area where you're near enough to the poles to have constant day and night but far enough as to not have permafrost. I've heard northern Alaska does very well growing things.
26. Re:And so? by es330td · 2019-01-15 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  This may be one of the more misleading headlines out there. The seed germinated "on the moon" in the same way a seed germinates "on the ISS." It is in an enclosed artificial environment that replicates growing conditions on Earth sufficiently to germinate elsewhere.
27. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 07:13 · Score: 0
  
  It's the location. Low G, easy to land, easy to take off. Not all cities are successful because they had natural resources. Some might be conveniently located to be good trade hubs, others for their scenic views for tourists, etc..
28. Re:And so? by apoc.famine · 2019-01-15 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  It is in an enclosed artificial environment that replicates growing conditions on Earth sufficiently to germinate elsewhere.
  Please explain how that environment replicates 1g in that 1/6g environment.
  
  --
  Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
29. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 07:43 · Score: 0
  
  It's not weather or not the seeds will *sprout*. It's about weather or not space slave labor is viable
30. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 07:56 · Score: -1
  
  Gay N1ggers from Outer Space is soon becoming a reality.
31. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 08:01 · Score: 0
  
  Thankfully China warned us ahead of time, or we'd all panic over why the man on the moon* suddenly has a Chi[n]a 'fro.
  * Fun fact, in China (and at least a few other Asian) folklore it's a rabbit. Specifically, for China it's a rabbit pounding medicine for the mortals. So, I guess we finally see what "ancient Chinese medicine" grows on the dark side of the moon: hashish. Pink Floyd was apparently right.
32. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 08:39 · Score: 0
  
  I know people who grow plants in their basement ... with no windows. And they are most certainly not rocket scientists.
33. Re:And so? by ElizabethGreene · 2019-01-15 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  It proves that, as of today, there is life on one other rock in this Universe. It's not sustainable life and it didn't evolve independently, but it's life on something other than Earth.
  As to who suggested what, that is irrelevant. Until a thing is experimentally demonstrated there is always the chance that it might not be possible. If you can't see how awesome this is then I can't help you.
34. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 09:42 · Score: 0
  
  Is that the sound of the bell or the winner's name?
35. Re:And so? by Gavagai80 · 2019-01-15 10:01 · Score: 2
  
  Before Neil Armstrong, did anyone ever suggest or was there any reason to believe that a man could not take a step on the moon?
  Doing something first on the moon is newsworthy. It's also an essential verification step before creating a moon base, and that's China's stated purpose.
  
  --
  This space intentionally left blank
36. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 10:03 · Score: 0
  
  The scientific method require experimentation and measurement. Feelings and beliefs as well as suggestions do not enter into it.
37. Re:And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 10:20 · Score: 0
  
  Before Neil Armstrong, did anyone ever suggest or was there any reason to believe that a man could not take a step on the moon?
  Doing something first on the moon is newsworthy. It's also an essential verification step before creating a moon base, and that's China's stated purpose.
  It's more that there aren't any additional challenges to sending a planter with a plant vs sending a human (in fact plants are generally easier to keep alive, especially as seeds). This is an impressive accomplishment, but it's impressive in an "I finished 20th in a marathon" sense. Sure, most people can't do it, you're going to get "oh that's nice" more than "wow I'm really impressed" when you brag about it.
38. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 11:15 · Score: 0
  
  It proves that Chinese have men who will spread life to distant moons and planets. Women in the west are afraid of life and believe in protection against pregnancy. They also believe in planetary protection and not exploring space in the event some Martian microbes would be inconvenienced by Earth microbes.
  Not to worry, even though the United States and Europe are devoid of men, there are plenty of men in Mexico and Tunisia that are happy to come over and impregnate the Western Women.
  Hooray for life. Let's spread it to the furthest reaches of the Galaxy. While we are at it let's cure the pathology that is modern white liberalism.
39. Re:And so? by alaskana98 · 2019-01-15 11:44 · Score: 1
  
  Good question. I guess I would say that, given the large amount of processes that need to happen just right for the germination process to be successful, and that these processes were evolved to occur under a very specific gravitational context, it's possible that the low gravity of the moon could have interfered to such an extent that it could have resulted in failure. In any case it is a very interesting and hopeful outcome for the future of space exploration. *I believe germination and these types of experiments have already been performed successfully in zero gravity environments, so not sure that this is a significant find either way. This sounds like one of those, 'well we can't say for sure it will work until we try it' kind of scenarios.
40. Re:And so? by The+Evil+Atheist · 2019-01-15 12:43 · Score: 1
  
  It's a shame Slashdot considers this "insightful".
  
  When you plan to colonize space, you have to test all aspects, step-by-step. Imagine if the experiment was trying to grow plants on the lunar surface. The test fails. What would that prove? First, you have to eliminate the possibility that it's impossible to grow stuff on the moon even if given the best conditions possible.
  
  When people here troubleshoot problems and debug code, do you all jump to the extreme case and test nothing else? Or do you test to eliminate conditions as you go along in order to pinpoint exactly where the problems are?
  
  It's amazing how self-styled nerds throw all their intelligence out the window on this site.
  
  --
  Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
41. Re:And so? by Darinbob · 2019-01-15 13:35 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe the research is with low gravity. In the ISS they grew some plants with zero gravity, similar but not really the same thing. Probably a sure thing that it will grow, but what's unknown is how well it grows, does germination work the same way, etc.
  But don't worry, they didn't go to the moon just to do this one experiment.
42. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 13:54 · Score: 0
  
  Why would you assume that most plants can survive 600+ hours of continuous darkness, even if it wasn't -100*...?
  Most mammals can hold their breath/survive oxygen depravation for a hundred heartbeats worth of time without brain damage. Call it a minute for a human. Do you think 30* that is reasonable? That's about half hour without oxygen for a human.
43. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 14:01 · Score: 0
  
  You sir, fail to understand what a dispositive test is.
  A plant failing to grow in an active barbeque pit tells us nothing about if it can grow in a sunny field. But it does tell us that that particular plant will NOT grow in that particular set of conditions.
  Similarly, planting next to an active fire pit and having a plant grow doesn't tell us whether or not the plant would grow in the flame itself. But if it can not grow even next to the flames, it is highly likely that it will NOT grow in the flames.
  Go back and review your Precalc and induction proofs.
44. Re: And so? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 18:36 · Score: 0
  
  Same thing could be said about the first moon walk: "And so? Proves nothing...".
  Of course, had it been a good old American sprout... AMAZING!
45. Re: And so? by The+Evil+Atheist · 2019-01-16 13:14 · Score: 1
  
  What the fuck are you on about?
  
  Whatever the case may be, you'd still want to test whether we can grow something on the moon without it having to be in the actual lunar soil. If we can't even make anything grow in the most friendly conditions in that environment, then we have no hope of anything else.
  
  Failing at growing something in the lunar soil will help nothing if we can't grow something at all.
  
  --
  Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Surprising by willaien · 2019-01-15 04:45 · Score: 1, Insightful

I'm surprised that a scientific endeavor would allow for the potential of contaminating the surface with live biological samples.
Regardless if there ever were anything on the moon, this makes studying that harder by its very existence.
Also, we've already done zero-g growth experiments, what value did this add? It's not like the lander sourced soil and water for this.
1. Re:Surprising by MobyDisk · 2019-01-15 04:50 · Score: 2
  
  It's in a sealed container.
2. Re:Surprising by MikeDataLink · 2019-01-15 04:51 · Score: 2
  
  I'm surprised that a scientific endeavor would allow for the potential of contaminating the surface with live biological samples.
  Regardless if there ever were anything on the moon, this makes studying that harder by its very existence.
  Also, we've already done zero-g growth experiments, what value did this add? It's not like the lander sourced soil and water for this.
  It's inside the lander, in earth soil. Sealed.
  
  --
  Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
3. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 04:58 · Score: 1
  
  I'm surprised that a scientific endeavor would allow for the potential of contaminating the surface with live biological samples.
  So what? If it somehow grows into a cotten based Kaiju, it will just die on the moon. If it escapes the lander and magically makes the moon green and blue, all the better. At some point in the scientific process, you have to say "Let's roll!" and do the thing instead of worrying about contamination. We know the moon is hostile to terrestrial life. Adding terrestrial life won't hurt none, yo.
4. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:04 · Score: 0
  
  As the GP questioned though. What does this prove exactly. We know you can grow plants on Earth gravity and zero-g. Was there anything in particular challenge the moon provided that zero-g doesn't?
5. Re:Surprising by AmiMoJo · 2019-01-15 05:06 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's all in a sealed environment. The idea is to create a viable, self-contained environment with some plants and fruit flies.
  In any case, that boat has probably already sailed as it seems that at least one of the Surveyor probes was contaminated. And you also have to ask if it's worth worrying about, given that we are fairly certain that the Moon is dead and not having to deal with it will make life a lot easier to establish a presence there.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
6. Re:Surprising by careysub · 2019-01-15 05:09 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Zero-G growth experiments are not 1/6-G growth experiments. This has never been done before.
  
  --
  Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
7. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:14 · Score: 0
  
  It added value to Chinese scientific endeavor (and technically the world, eventually), as of value -> they can successfully launch and deploy a seeded grow room in space; without direct human intervention. This lands on a few (though not unique) accomplishments.
8. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:14 · Score: 0
  
  Containers can be breached. I think this is just China saying "who cares what NASA says, we will do what we want".
  Really, though, the moon could not support any of the life taken up there even if it escaped, so nothing to worry about.
9. Re:Surprising by UperPoti · 2019-01-15 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  This would have been so much easier and cheaper to do and under multiple accelerations from 0G up to 2G on the ISS.
10. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:27 · Score: 0
  
  It wouldn't be if the landing failed and it impacted the moon. I think the reason nobody has done anything like this is because of the risk of that. Probes fail during landing all the time and contamination is a serious risk.
11. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:41 · Score: 0
  
  I'm surprised that a scientific endeavor would allow for the potential of contaminating the surface with live biological samples.
  Regardless if there ever were anything on the moon, this makes studying that harder by its very existence.
  Also, we've already done zero-g growth experiments, what value did this add? It's not like the lander sourced soil and water for this.
  I tend to agree... more or less. I think it is undesirable to live in these places. Heck I don't even like living in crowded cities, let alone in a crowded city where you literally would die if you opened a window. But I think for humanity to have access to the types of technologies that allow us to live in extremely harsh environments and even prosper and grow then that would be of benefit to not only accessing these resources, but also to giving humanity many many options to survive even the worst case scenarios of war or natural disaster.
12. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:49 · Score: 0
  
  I'm surprised that a scientific endeavor would allow for the potential of contaminating the surface with live biological samples.
  
  It's not like the lander sourced soil and water for this.
  Oh please, even if we ever found intelligent life on another stellar body, you people would be blue in the face explaining all the reasons we could never go and meet it. The same is true if the lander did manage to source soil and water. You'd be declaring it a holy ground we shouldn't dare contaminate with earth genetic material.
  If China is willing to move beyond "Outer Space is a big playground for robotists and panspermia evidence seekers only" and actually start trying to do something with it, I'm all for it. Enough with the denialism and realists. Let's actually try to achieve something for a change rather than continue to sit on our hands like we've done for the last 60 years.
  Besides, chances are if the panspermia theory is true and we find anything within our solar system to support it, the differences will be minimal at best due to the chances for said earth originating material to have fallen elsewhere as well during the trip through the solar system.
13. Re:Surprising by cascadingstylesheet · 2019-01-15 06:08 · Score: 2
  
  I'm surprised that a scientific endeavor would allow for the potential of contaminating the surface with live biological samples.
  Regardless if there ever were anything on the moon, this makes studying that harder by its very existence.
  Also, we've already done zero-g growth experiments, what value did this add? It's not like the lander sourced soil and water for this.
  Not sure if there is a need for scientific qualms here, but if there is, China isn't going to have any. This is China we are talking about.
14. Re:Surprising by DaveSewhuk · 2019-01-15 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  There were plenty of contamination events on the other side when the NASA astronauts visited in the '70s. I am pretty sure we didn't sterilize them or their equipment. I suspect there are containers of "waste" left behind to lighten the load to bring back the rocks and dust.
15. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:15 · Score: 0
  
  I'm surprised that a scientific endeavor would allow for the potential of contaminating the surface with live biological samples.
  We're talking about China here - a country that doesn't have the highest regard for quality practices.
16. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:26 · Score: 0
  
  " Enough with the denialism and realists."
  Yes, enough with the reality of space being a hostile dead end!
  Let's indulge in FANTASY! That's what adults do!
  Space Nutters. Sigh.
17. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:43 · Score: 0
  
  Contaminating the Moon? hahahaha, you're funny. You realize how hot the surface gets, yes? Or did you skip science class?
18. Re: Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  Hard to say what the risk of contamination is. I mean, Mars rocks end up on Earth after big impacts, so couldnâ(TM)t earth rocks end up on the moon? For that matter, we now know that there are microorganisms at pretty much every altitude in our atmosphere. So, it is entirely possible for meteors passing through the upper atmosphere to pick up hitchhikers and then pass back out of the atmosphere and later impact the moon. In other words steady contamination has surely been ongoing for millions of years. The moon is a pretty harsh environment with the unfiltered UV light and other radiation. Not to mention the vacuum, and lack of moisture. Add to that the fact that the lunar dust is apparently pretty toxic overall and it doesnâ(TM)t seem likely that escaped samples are going to cause much in the way of biocontamination.
19. Re:Surprising by Shotgun · 2019-01-15 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  The US had quite a few biological samples roaming around up there, and even driving a rover around.
  
  --
  Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
  Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
20. Re:Surprising by R3d+M3rcury · 2019-01-15 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  Which would be great, if only the Chinese had access to the International Space Station.
21. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  You obviously didn't pay attention to space news in 2017. Chinese Experiment Reaches Space Station in Historic First.
22. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  Says every idiot before someone figures out a way to make it work. Then the idiots try to save face.
  Hostilities are meant to be overcome. The fact that you call it fantasy, just solidifies you as a denialist.
23. Re: Surprising by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 18:37 · Score: 0
  
  As well they should, NASA has no authority over the Chinese space exploration effort.
The real challenge by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 04:47 · Score: 0

Is to sprout plants in the unprotected atmosphere of another celestial body, not the protected containers that these plants were in.
Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 04:48 · Score: 0

Thanks, China, for destroying lunar science by contaminating the moon with Terran plant matter. Now we will always have to wonder if what we discover on the moon was exclusively Lunar or if it was a consequence of China's reckless disregard for science.
1. Re:Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by coolmoe2 · 2019-01-15 04:53 · Score: 1
  
  oh dont be so dramatic the solar radiation will sterilize it again in a reasonable amount of time.
2. Re:Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by AlwinBarni · 2019-01-15 05:23 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Thanks, China, for destroying lunar science by ...
  - Moon is lifeless, there is no need to worry about contamination (it's not Mars) - really
  - the seeds are in a sealed container, even if breached it will be sterilized by the solar radiation
  - germinating seeds is an important experiment for potential human settlements on the Moon - shoulv'e been done long time ago
3. Re:Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by HornWumpus · 2019-01-15 05:37 · Score: 1
  
  This is a middle school philosophy based argument. The moon has vacuum and radiation that will sterilize all. It has no 'ecology'.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
4. Re:Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by EmagGeek · 2019-01-15 05:49 · Score: 2
  
  "- Moon is lifeless"
  That's what they said about Ceti Alpha V, and look where that got Captain Terrell..
5. Re:Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 18:35 · Score: 0
  
  Thanks, China, for destroying lunar science by contaminating the moon
  What's wrong with the USians these days?
  Can't they live a single day without blaming China for something ??
6. Re:Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-16 10:01 · Score: 0
  
  "- Moon is lifeless"
  That's what they said about Ceti Alpha V, and look where that got Captain Terrell..
  That is fiction, you moron.
7. Re:Thanks for Contaminating the Moon by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-17 05:27 · Score: 0
  
  It was humor, you moron.
yep,,next step Moon Bases,,, by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 04:51 · Score: 0

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/01/15/plants-grown-moon-first-time-paving-way-lunar-base/
Has they defiled the temple of science? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 04:54 · Score: 0

For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion(operation of wandering)(planet) so that they will believe the lie.
Myserty Red of the Great American Eclipse
It has blood on it!
ABCNews: Eclipse makes pendulum wander
Lunar Eclipse this Sunday evening: Is the red in the dark shadow the whole time, or is it not there, as Nat Geo and WashPost say?
Nat Geo Lunar 101
Chia Pet by goombah99 · 2019-01-15 04:54 · Score: 1

Chia seeds will grow on terracotta pottery and water.

--
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Earth soil by Tablizer · 2019-01-15 05:00 · Score: 5, Informative

It appears it's Earth soil. I found nothing in the article to suggest it's using lunar soil here, which would be the real test. The article should have pointed that out; it's not a trivial admission.

--
Table-ized A.I.
1. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:15 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  "Fake moon soil, totally rigged, believe me! I told you Jiiina cheats, knew they would! Loser probe snuck cheating soil past Earth barrier. Need better barriers to keep out bad hombre probes, Earth is not sending their best. Make moon farmers pay for Space Wall, and Space Force must fix this! #MakeSoilGreatAgain!"
  - Orangebot AI test
2. Re:Earth soil by AmiMoJo · 2019-01-15 05:22 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Could plants even grow in lunar soil? Not without something extra mixed in I would imagine. No nutrients, no moisture, no bacteria or animal life.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
3. Re:Earth soil by spaceman375 · 2019-01-15 05:28 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Also no erosion, which leads to very pointy, sharp edged regolith. Not too comfortable for roots.
  
  --
  On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth
4. Re:Earth soil by LifesABeach · 2019-01-15 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  I really hate myself for enjoying this A/C post. But what a great idea for a thesis a.i. project
5. Re:Earth soil by Holi · 2019-01-15 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  not sure lunar soil would be viable as it would lack many nutrients plants require.
  
  --
  Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
6. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:05 · Score: 0
  
  Libtards will make anything about Trump. Orange Man Bad living rent free in so many empty heads.
7. Re:Earth soil by Farmer+Tim · 2019-01-15 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  It would be possible to mill the regolith, however this comes with the danger of history recording it as “their orders were to go to the moon and pound sand”.
  
  --
  Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
8. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:23 · Score: 0
  
  Doesn't matter. We have 3D printers and computers got better. Anything is possible.
9. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  not sure lunar soil would be viable as it would lack many nutrients plants require.
  Not a problem.
10. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:31 · Score: 0
  
  FTFA:
  
  Scientists from Chongqing University, who designed the “mini lunar biosphere” experiment, sent an 18cm bucket-like container holding air, water and soil.
11. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:51 · Score: 0
  
  Indeed. Not even dirt on Earth can support plant life very well in some regions. You need lots of decomposed organic matter to make plants grow well, and I doubt the moon has any of that yet.
12. Re:Earth soil by es330td · 2019-01-15 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  Even on Mars Mark Watney had to mix waste in with the soil to make his potatoes grow.
13. Re:Earth soil by Tablizer · 2019-01-15 07:05 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Could plants even grow in lunar soil? Not without something extra mixed in I would imagine.
  Adding astronaut feces would be a good test. It's what colonists would probably have to rely on.
  I'd hate to be the person at NASA in charge of creating the poop experiment, though.
  "Dad, what do you do at work?"
  "Why, I prepare important poop for important rockets, Mikey."
  "Dad, is my poop important?..."
  (I avoided a Uranus joke; that alone should get me mod points.)
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
14. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  Trumpeters always think that anyone who dislikes any aspect of The Orange One is automatically a Libtard.
15. Re:Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 08:26 · Score: 0
  
  There is no need for the soil to contain any nutrients. Plants grown hydroponically can be growing in completely sterile "soil", or without any soil at all - you can supply the nutrients in the liquid (which definitely is required). Bacteria and animal life are not required, either.
  Hydroponics has long been suggested as the appropriate approach for growing plants in non-terrestrial environments, including other planets and even in space.
16. Re:Earth soil by ElizabethGreene · 2019-01-15 09:17 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This experiment has been performed with Lunar Soil Simulant (JSC-1) here on earth. Plants were able to grew, poorly, in it directly. Adding organic matter and fertilizer improved growth significantly as expected.
  https://journals.plos.org/plos...
17. Re:Earth soil by Joce640k · 2019-01-15 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  It appears it's Earth soil. I found nothing in the article to suggest it's using lunar soil here, which would be the real test. The article should have pointed that out; it's not a trivial admission.
  Obviously not, because robots don't poop.
  In a human station there would be fertilizer available.
  
  --
  No sig today...
18. Re:Earth soil by AmiMoJo · 2019-01-15 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  Fascinating read, thank you. I'm very surprised at the result.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
19. Re:Earth soil by djinn6 · 2019-01-15 20:12 · Score: 1
  
  The most surprising result from that is how the Martian soil did better than Earth soil.
  I think the researchers probably could've been a bit more careful in their choice of Earth soil. Clearly we have much better soil, such as potting soil, that should have outperformed the Martian soil simulant and would have made a more interesting comparison. After all, the alternative to using Martian soil is not average Earth soil, but the best kind of soil we can make.
  A comparison with hydroponics or aeroponics would be interesting too.
20. Re: Earth soil by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-17 03:15 · Score: 0
  
  Said by the far right Nazi who no doubt railed on Obama with lies.
21. Re: Earth soil by WindBourne · 2019-01-17 03:17 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but if we are going to teraform mars, plants will have to grow.
  
  --
  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
22. Re:Earth soil by billybob2001 · 2019-01-17 04:27 · Score: 1
  
  Adding astronaut feces would be a good test. It's what colonists would probably have to rely on.
  
  You mean:
  It's what colonists would probably have to rely on.
  colon-ists
Mars is a waste by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:03 · Score: 0

Reminder that engineering your own habitat to have the "gravity", atmospheric make up, day length you desire and the radiation shielding you need and building your habitat in zero gravity (O'Neil cylinders) are a far more viable option for moving humanity off the Earth than Mars will ever be.
1. Re:Mars is a waste by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:53 · Score: 0
  
  Do you want Gundams? Because that's how you get Gundams. And a massive expansion of Sydney Harbor. Just the Gundams would be fine though.
Blame democrat party by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:03 · Score: 0

Democrat party leaked nasa seacrets to the Chinks for kickbaks.
NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:11 · Score: -1

The Chinese haven't done anything original since they invented gun powder...maybe noodles...I forget.
Everything since the Communists took over has been stolen from others.
1. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Tablizer · 2019-01-15 05:24 · Score: 2
  
  Everything since the Communists took over has been stolen from others.
  Much of China's industry is highly capitalistic. I'm not defending communism here at all, but to say alleged intellectual property theft or "copying" is caused by their "communism" is silly.
  By the way, many who have lived in China recently say they have some of the best smart-phone apps there are. Many there rely purely on their phone for just about every Internet service and financial transaction. PC's never really caught on there as a consumer item, so phones have taken their place and they are taken phone apps to new heights.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
2. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Tablizer · 2019-01-15 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  to say alleged intellectual property theft or "copying" is caused by their "communism" is silly.
  A semi-caveat is some believe their gov't assists with industrial espionage. Even if true, that's not inherently a "communist" function. US gov't does similar for military technology, handing off discovered secrets to military contractors. Does that make us more "commie"?
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
3. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by sycodon · 2019-01-15 05:56 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Theft of I.P is not, "capitalism".
  It's theft.
  
  --
  When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
4. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:00 · Score: 0
  
  China has not been a communist state in a long time. Actually there has never been a government built upon pure 100% communism, socialism, and even capitalism. China and the old USSR governments have created a class of billionaires. This should be impossible in a Communist or Socialist style of government. And capitalism has created a ultra-wealthy class but that is what Capitalism is built for Capitalism forwards the idea that anyone willing to work hard can succeed without needing handouts from the state. Unfortunately the weakness in any type of government is the people. The Chinese people could over throw the ruling "Party" any time the want. There would be a lot of death and destruction but the "Party" could be run out of the country with 1 billion angry citizens. In the US you have the people who contribute nothing but carbon dioxide to the country while expecting handouts on the premise that they "deserve" to take a piece of what others have earned. It would be ok if people expected a hand up instead of a handout but that is not what the agitated prole class is willing to accept.
5. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  > In the US you have the people who contribute nothing but carbon dioxide to the country while expecting handouts on the premise that they "deserve" to take a piece of what others have earned.
  Every western nation with strong social programs have over all better quality of life for their citizens than the US. You're a fucking idiot.
6. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  Everything since the Communists took over has been stolen from others.
  Much of China's industry is highly capitalistic. I'm not defending communism here at all, but to say alleged intellectual property theft or "copying" is caused by their "communism" is silly.
  By the way, many who have lived in China recently say they have some of the best smart-phone apps there are. Many there rely purely on their phone for just about every Internet service and financial transaction. PC's never really caught on there as a consumer item, so phones have taken their place and they are taken phone apps to new heights.
  Probably because like in Africa many never had PCs to begin with and the smartphone was their first exposure to personal computing. Like how some developing nations have large cell phone networks now but little wired infrastructure, by the time the population could afford phones the landline was already obsolete (plus those damned copper thieves cutting down cables as fast as they go up).
7. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  Information wants to be free.
  Theft is taking something such that the other person no longer has it. That is not what China is doing.
8. Re: NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  Well, IP isnâ(TM)t âoecapitalismâ in the first place. Definitely not free market capitalism. IP is, in fact, a government-granted temporary monopoly created through regulation. Thatâ(TM)s true for copyright, trademarks, patents (including âoedesign patentsâ which are the bastard child of patents and trademarks) and for most of the protections for âoetrade secretsâ.
  Actual free market capitalism wouldnâ(TM)t touch government granted monopolies with a ten foot pole.
9. Re: NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 07:24 · Score: 0
  
  That's not how the government views it. Otherwise, movie and music piracy would not be considered theft, because the copyright holders still have the media. It's not gone, just copied.
10. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Shotgun · 2019-01-15 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  I've been to some of those countries. You're the fucking idiot.
  
  --
  Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
  Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
11. Re: NOthing Since Gun powder by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 07:39 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, the AC is just a run-of-the-mill idiot. I doubt anyone is fucking him.
12. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Scarletdown · 2019-01-15 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  Information wants to be free.
  Meh. Don't anthropomorphize information. It hates that.
  
  --
  This space unintentionally left blank.
13. Re:NOthing Since Gun powder by Darinbob · 2019-01-15 13:34 · Score: 1
  
  Doesn't sound so great actually. It would be more amazing if they learned to wean themselves off of the smart phones.
14. Re: NOthing Since Gun powder by WindBourne · 2019-01-17 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  No, there is little doubt that china spies and steals. I've dealt with 1-2 spies ( 1 that FBI sent packing & the other was not certain ).
  
  --
  I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Dr. Niko Tatopoulos would worry about this... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 05:43 · Score: 0

less G, more Rad :(
little shop of horrors!
So bloody what? by Rick+Schumann · 2019-01-15 06:09 · Score: 0

I see nothing terribly impressive about this. We (the U.S.) could probably land a probe on an asteroid and grow potatoes there -- inside the probe, using Earth soil, and stored Earth atmosphere. We've been growing plants on the ISS for a while now haven't we? This is just a publicity stunt.
1. Re:So bloody what? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:59 · Score: 0
  
  But we did not. Not all science is done by the US. Not all good things are done by the US. China is growing and doing interesting stuff now too. Stop being bitter.
2. Re:So bloody what? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 09:10 · Score: 0
  
  ACs only get told to FUCK OFF until they use a NAME when they comment.
3. Re:So bloody what? by ElizabethGreene · 2019-01-15 09:42 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Have you looked at the US Space Program? I don't mean looking at our historic achievements, I mean looking at where we are today. While we were celebrating our wins, we allowed our Aerospace Industry to drive the cost of space so high that it strangled our ability to explore. Here's a news flash; Apollo 11's landing was 49.5 years ago. Most people who saw the it are retired or getting ready to retire.
  It's worse. Most NASA badges are currently drawing unemployment, and the few that are showing up to work aren't getting paid. We haven't had manned spaceflight capability in almost a decade, and the only reason we're on the ISS is because the Russians choose to let us ride along. With the current electile dysfunction there is a good chance we miss the window for the 2020 rover launch too.
  There are times for swinging your "My country is better than yours!" stick around; this isn't one.
4. Re:So bloody what? by Gavagai80 · 2019-01-15 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  NASA in 2013 had planned to launch pretty much this same exact experiment by 2015: http://blogs.discovermagazine....
  NASA's version was far more of a publicity stunt, since it was all about involving kids in classrooms around the country. But apparently NASA didn't accomplish the mission. China did. Good for China.
  
  --
  This space intentionally left blank
5. Re:So bloody what? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 12:49 · Score: 0
  
  electile dysfunction
  LOL
6. Re:So bloody what? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 18:41 · Score: 0
  
  ... the current electile dysfunction ...
  
  Can't live without you, Liz !
Bloody Inners.. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 06:20 · Score: 0

They take unser Luna, they thinka they some coyo....
We not giving them Luna, Sasa?
Simple truth, communism means environmental fail by SuperKendall · 2019-01-15 07:33 · Score: 1

I've been to ALL of those countries. YOU are the idiot, the poster is exactly right - the more authoritarian a country is, the worse the environment will be, in all sorts of ways (including just overall litter, never mind worse pollution).
East and West Germany was the best example of this profound and endlessly repeated truth - Venezuela being the most recent example of how Communism can turn even the most beautiful verdant land into a swirling cesspit of pollution and filth.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
All wrong by SuperKendall · 2019-01-15 07:37 · Score: 1

I was going to correct you, but honestly since every single point you list is wrong, I figure I would just let people Google your individual points to laugh at you rather than spend all that effort myself.
On a larger meta level, there is a pretty damn huge advantage in having large numbers of people living off planet, some further physically removed than even just the moon or orbit...

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:All wrong by Your.Master · 2019-01-15 23:10 · Score: 1
  
  While I agree that his points are wrong (and somewhat bizarre), the "damn huge advantage" is something you're going to have to explain.
  I've heard people explain that it's a hedge against an Earth extinction event. But I see it as a doubling* of the odds of a planetary extinction event for humans. The sadness of human death is proportional to the number of humans that died, not the number of survivors.
  So I don't accept that one. If there were an economic or social reason why it's useful to have it, that's another story. And like...I like Star Trek too, but no, it doesn't seem obviously important for humans to live off planet in large numbers.
  If there is, then his mobile self-sufficient colonies is not the most insane proposal for getting people out of the solar system. Most reasons to get off planet also apply out of solar system (it's also not original, of course).
  *yes, not literally doubling
2. Re:All wrong by ElizabethGreene · 2019-01-16 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  I'll take a stab at the damn huge advantage bit.
  If I need a pile of rocks moved from point A to point B here on Earth I'm going to call a guy who will drive his diesel powered bulldozer onto the back of his diesel powered truck, drive over asphalt and concrete and highways, unload into my front yard, and sit in the seat moving the levers on the bulldozer to move the rocks.
  That process is so cheap here on Earth that there isn't enough cost, real cost and opportunity cost, to get people to invest in researching more efficient ways to move rocks. Exploring and colonizing the Moon and Mars creates that motive to invest in that research. I have no idea what that research will produce, but it's entirely feasible it could lead to advancement in energy efficiency (Electric Bulldozers?), Autonomy (Eliminating the need for the driver), and Vehicle design (tires made from something other than rubber?).
  One can imagine similar advancements in manufacturing and construction too. A couple of examples: Aluminum containing silicates are ubiquitous here on Earth, but we choose to only mine Bauxite and then ship it from place to place in giant barges powered by dead dinosaurs. An aluminum refining process that worked with different feedstocks or consumed less electricity would be revolutionary.
  Another example: The launch weight restrictions for the Moon or Mars mean that a tiny number of humans will need to rapidly manufacture large numbers of mechanically complex devices. I don't know what advances that will produce, but I could easily see it birthing new point-of-use manufacturing techniques (e.g. cold-spray deposition 3d printing) that can shrink the cost of goods back on this planet.
  The advantage of living and working on another world, besides insurance for survival of our species, is it forces us to rethink basic assumptions about how work can and should be done.
Not impressed by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 09:47 · Score: 0

I'm not really impressed. The soil provides little more than structure for it to latch on to. Ever grow a potato in a glass of water with nothing but toothpicks? How about other plants in a net?
I.P. is Theft by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-15 10:04 · Score: 0

I.P. is a blanket term for Copyright, Patent, Trademark, and Trade Secret. It also implies that I can own an idea or thought, and that you have no right to think of that idea without owing me royalties.
When Amazon patents a button on a website, when Microsoft patents sudo, when Apple patents rounded corners - that is theft.
When John Fogerty gets sued for sounding like John Fogerty, when the RIAA sues the dead - that is theft.
When farmers can not fix their tractors - that is theft.
All of this brought to us by lawyers. Remember, corporations are people too!
No, a SMALL leaf by Tony+Isaac · 2019-01-15 16:24 · Score: 1

Both the article and the summary agree, the plant is still a small shoot, so no giant leaves for mankind. Sorry, just a few very small ones!
Didn't they land on the dark side of the moon? by Micah+NC · 2019-01-16 05:31 · Score: 1

Are they growing this thing in the dark? Is this a separate landfall on the moon? Did they land on one side and travel to the other?
But they forgot to turn on the heat... by Camarillo+Brillo · 2019-01-16 06:00 · Score: 1

...so the poor little plant died after its first day. https://www.theguardian.com/sc... Did Chinese stupidity really need to send a plant to the moon to discover that it would freeze and die during the moon's night time? Hello Chinese scientists! You are morons and copycats. Try something useful and original.
1. Re:But they forgot to turn on the heat... by skinfaxi · 2019-01-16 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  I am impressed it sprouted at all, it should have been too cold or too hot, depending on whether it was moon day or night, for any kind of germination.
No other country has spies, only China. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-17 04:02 · Score: 0

It's only bad if China does it.
Can you read? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-17 04:11 · Score: 0

There is no need for the soil to contain any nutrients. Plants grown hydroponically can be growing in completely sterile "soil", or without any soil at all - you can supply the nutrients in the liquid (which definitely is required). Bacteria and animal life are not required, either.
Send American's if you need extra CO2 by Anonymous Coward · 2019-01-17 22:27 · Score: 0

If you need CO2 when you get to Mars, be sure to pack plenty of Americans. They are excellent at making it, twice as good as Europeans or Chinese.