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Saturn Put A Ring On It Relatively Recently, Study Says (npr.org)

Saturn is famous for its lovely rings, but a new study suggests the planet has spent most of its 4.5 billion years without them. From a report: That's because the rings are likely only 10 million to 100 million years old, according to a newly published report in the journal Science that's based on findings from NASA's Cassini probe. Cassini spent some 13 years orbiting Saturn before plunging down and slamming into its atmosphere. During its final orbits, the spacecraft dove between the planet and its rings. That let scientists measure the gravitational effect of the rings and get a good estimate of the ring material's mass.

What they found is that it's only about 40 percent of the mass of Saturn's moon Mimas, which is way smaller than Earth's moon. This small mass suggests that the rings are relatively young. That's because the rings seem to be made of extremely pure water ice, suggesting that the bright white rings have not existed long enough to be contaminated by the bombardment of messy, dirty comets that would be expected to occur over billions of years. Some scientists thought it was possible that darker debris from comets might lie beneath the bright ice, undetectable to their instruments, but this new study shows that isn't the case.

50 comments

  1. So where did they come from? by bobbied · · Score: 1

    IF they are young, where did they come from and why are they nearly pure water?

    Seems to me that is the real question here...

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    1. Re: So where did they come from? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I am not a cosmologist, nor do I play one on TV, but common sense would suggest that gravity caused particles to slowly form around Saturn at approximately the same orbit until one day there were enough of them to be visible through a telescope. Or maybe it just appeared one day like magic. Ask a cosmologist.

    2. Re:So where did they come from? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      "It's possible that the rings are the remnants of a comet or some other icy object that made a chance encounter with Saturn and got ripped up, he says. Or, perhaps one of Saturn's icy moons got whacked by an impact with a large comet."

      Now, how it would make sense to both be "a remnant from some comet" but also "they're new, and not contaminated by dirty comets" - that one I don't get.

    3. Re:So where did they come from? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you see an article talking about scientists, and not naming it, disregard it.

    4. Re:So where did they come from? by BoogieChile · · Score: 1

      Enceladus, maybe? All that water coming out of it must be going somewhere, right?

    5. Re:So where did they come from? by AC-x · · Score: 1

      Now, how it would make sense to both be "a remnant from some comet" but also "they're new, and not contaminated by dirty comets" - that one I don't get.

      Looks like comets are clean ice below their surface, so it would imagine it would be a case of - pulverizing a comet made mostly of clean ice vs collecting the dirty surface outgassings of passing comets over billions of years.

    6. Re:So where did they come from? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Man, as cool as it was when Shoemaker-Levy hit Jupiter, I can't even imagine what that kind of show might have been like, when Saturn got its rings.

    7. Re:So where did they come from? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IF they are young, where did they come from and why are they nearly pure water?

      Seems to me that is the real question here...

      'Cause if you liked it, then you should have put a ring on it

      obviously Saturn likes it... the real question is... when are they to be married or are they already married?

    8. Re:So where did they come from? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IF they are young, where did they come from and why are they nearly pure water?

      Seems to me that is the real question here...

      the real question is this... how can uranus not have a ring and if it did, where did it go? did saturn steal it?

    9. Re:So where did they come from? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I suspect it might have been a bit slow.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. And they are going away by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Not only are Saturn's rings young, but it appears they are going away soon (astronomically speaking), so if you think about it we are all kind of amazingly lucky to be around while they are here to admire the amazing beauty they offer!

    It also completely removes any inhibitions to mine them for valuable resources.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:And they are going away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't know to from too, how are you supposed to understand basic climate science? You're a moronic uneducated faggot who is more than happy to lie to cover up a fraud so long as it's a Republican fraud. You should hang.

    2. Re:And they are going away by Sumus+Semper+Una · · Score: 1

      It also completely removes any inhibitions to mine them for valuable resources.

      Not really. That's a strange definition of "soon". The 50-100 million years it's expected to take for them to disappear is functionally equivalent to "forever" when compared to human life spans or human civilization (or even the human species). If we were a space faring species with the ability to mine Saturn's rings to the extent that we could cause them to disappear within the span of several generations, the correct response is not automatically "well, they are technically disappearing anyway - it's fine."

    3. Re:And they are going away by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Not only are Saturn's rings young, but it appears they are going away soon

      I can't wait to tell my great^300,000 grandchildren about how I remember when Saturn had rings. It was around the time that Pluto was still a planet, and Ceres was still pissed about it

    4. Re:And they are going away by meglon · · Score: 1

      The universe works on slightly longer time frames than "the human lifespan." One more sign we ain't really much to do about nothing, except in our own, petty, perspective.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    5. Re:And they are going away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't know to from too, how are you supposed to understand basic climate science?

      WARNING! Grammar Nazi alert! WARNING!

    6. Re:And they are going away by RockDoctor · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not really. That's a strange definition of "soon". The 50-100 million years it's expected to take for them to disappear is functionally equivalent to "forever"

      Speak for yourself. As a geologist, I'm quite used to thinking of error bars bigger than that. You're just having a calculation failure.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    7. Re: And they are going away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thatâ(TM)s right

    8. Re:And they are going away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geology is not a real science!

    9. Re:And they are going away by Sumus+Semper+Una · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but that kind of nihilistic argument can be used against aesthetics in general. I mean, if nothing matters anyway why bother making or preserving anything beautiful for our children?

      My point was that if it's acceptable and good to preserve occurrences of beauty in nature then it's not ok to just bend the timeline longer and say "look, if I go massively far enough into the future it's going to go away so it's fine to despoil it now." And if it's not acceptable and good to preserve occurrences of beauty in nature then it doesn't matter whether they're decaying or not.

    10. Re:And they are going away by meglon · · Score: 1

      Well, we live in our perspective. There's nothing wrong with, and in fact it should be a moral imperative, for us to leave the world a better place than it is now... including resources left in their natural state. My point is, 50-100million years may seem like an incredibly long time in our perspective, but in the scope of the universe, it's not really much of anything. While that may seem nihilistic to put our species in that view, it's also realistic.... and not something we have a choice in.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  3. Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where did it come from? Was there a water containing moot that got crashed into? Or did a comet crash into an object orbiting Saturn, or did Saturn pass though a comet debris field and collect the objects?

    1. Re:Water by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Where did it come from? Was there a water containing moot that got crashed into? Or did a comet crash into an object orbiting Saturn, or did Saturn pass though a comet debris field and collect the objects?

      That's the problem. Comets are slushy mud balls, not pure water. So the rings are not just some parts of a comet that got caught in orbit around Saturn, at least not directly. It's also why I'm asking the question. IF it's not possible for the rings to have come from a comet because of their composition, where did they come from?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also depends on what has happened after the rings were formed...perhaps they've changed in some way since then that has removed the non-ice components.

    3. Re:Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other people have suggested larger objects getting torn up in Saturn's orbit, but what about the opposite? The solar wind contains a good bit of ionized hydrogen and, among other things, oxygen. To my layman's understanding, it doesn't seem 100% impossible for some gases to get trapped in orbit around Saturn rather than fall completely into its gravity well, then over the course of megayears eventually form into water molecules that then cool into ice and clump together in a ring.

  4. Interesting by TFlan91 · · Score: 2

    It would be very interesting if they could collect samples of this ice and compare it to Earth's.

    It's been believed that water came here via comets, I wonder if those are the same comets that made up those "pure ice" rings

  5. Monoliths. by sconeu · · Score: 2

    We all know that Saturn's rings were created about 3 million years ago, when the aliens who built the Monolith built the Star Gate.

    Read the documentary book 2001: A Space Odyssey. Note that the film version does not contain this portion of history.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re: Monoliths. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Confucius say, man who take trip to Saturn must planet well

    2. Re: Monoliths. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paging Mr. Morrow, Mr. Tom Morrow, Mrs. Saturn called and wants you to give her a ring.

    3. Re:Monoliths. by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 2

      Ironically, the reason the movie moved the ending from Saturn to Jupiter was because they couldn't come up with a suitable visual effect for Saturn's rings.

    4. Re:Monoliths. by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 1

      We all know that Saturn's rings were created about 3 million years ago, when the aliens who built the Monolith built the Star Gate.

      Came here solely to make this comment. Alas, I was ninja'd by sconeu. Every time I hear a theory about the formation of Saturn's rings, I am reminded of that book.

      As to why the rings contain more water (or rather, less dirt) than comets, one theory I read was that it had something to do with the frequency of impacts and collisions. The chunks would smash into each other, shattering and often vaporizing. The heavier dirt would get pulled towards Saturn faster than the ice, which would re-coalesce into the sky-bergs that Mankind has marveled at for centuries. Repeat the process over a few million years and you get some remarkably pure ice.

    5. Re:Monoliths. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The book is a historical account. The film is a docu-drama which took creative license. The film tells the basic story but some of the actual facts were changed such as HAL's birth date, HAL's instructor, the planet Discovery visits, and of course the star gate - filming Hyperspace with standard equipment of the time is a real pain.

      Rumor has it the plant was changed from Saturn to Jupiter because the special effects to do Saturn were not up to par but Jupiter was easier. The other rumor is that all scenes of the film were done on location. When Dave disappeared into the TMA-2 around Saturn, they towed the it to Jupiter and filmed again using Keir Dullea (a key grip on the film crew) as a replacement actor.

      The reality that very few have put together the fact that the rings were created by TMA-2 (AKA Mjolnir) when Thor destroyed an Ice Giant. Thor allowed TMA-2 to be towed to Jupiter because Zeus (IE Jupiter) was upset his father Kronus (IE Saturn) was getting top billing. Thor liked the idea because he and Zeus have a lot in common. The star gate is actually the Bifrost Bridge. Dave never realized his final moments as a human were spent in Asgard. (citation - Thor, Marvel Comics Universe)

      Fun fact: TMA-1 is stored in the same warehouse seen in the pre-WW II documentary 'Raiders of the Lost Arc'. It is also being studied by 'top men'.

  6. Re:Wandering stars, in blackest darkness forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such assumptions you make about folks... Shesh..

    Sometimes asking for "science" to explain stuff is actually the best way to reach them and fulfill Acts 1:8-9. Certainly whacking them over the head isn't going to work, or do you suppose it does? My experience says no.

  7. They didn't count one by one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These numbers of billions of the years are the false evidence that they did.

    I've another opinion. These rings maybe the consequence of fragmenting and destroying their natural satellites. It's not a fact but my opinion.

    And these rocks from the rings may have an age of thousands of years instead of 1'000'000'000s of years.

  8. Or that the Universe is Young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or perhaps the universe is younger than they assume. Perhaps those pesky Creationists are correct after all.
    But no one wants to admit that possibility...

  9. ACHTUNG! MSMASH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hello Miss Mash,
     
    The title has mention about a "spacecraft dove."
     
    Please elaborate on what a spacecraft dove is, or correct the error.
     
    Thanks!
    Editor Tim
    (I run another news site.)

    1. Re:ACHTUNG! MSMASH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dove = past tense of dive

      Though, I feel you're intentionally being difficult and it wasn't worth the time clarifying.

    2. Re:ACHTUNG! MSMASH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think, thank, thunk.
       
      You, ma'am, ARE AN IDIOT!

    3. Re:ACHTUNG! MSMASH! by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Hello Miss Mash, The title has mention about a "spacecraft dove." Please elaborate on what a spacecraft dove is, or correct the error. Thanks! Editor Tim (I run another news site.)

      Did you read it or have you read it?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  10. Ice moon by DrYak · · Score: 1

    my suspicion: an ice moon.

    i.e.: an object big enough to have some significant gravity, enough gravity so the heavier elements can sink to the bottom, while the water/ice remains on its surface.

    (as opposed to commets which barely have enough gravity to hold the wet dust mud together)

    if such moon gets ripped appart (getting to close and tidal forces) the ice will be relatively clean ( but then you'll also be having rock fragments ).

    is there any speciallist that could help us ?

    (cue in McCoy's "i'm a Doctro, Jim...")

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Ice moon by aybiss · · Score: 1

      that's no moon

      --
      It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
    2. Re:Ice moon by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      that's no moon

      That's yo mamma

      --
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  11. I guess by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Saturn must'a liked it.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:I guess by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      Came here to find a post like this one. Was not disappointed.

  12. Youth Everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty much everywhere we look in our solar system lately we keep getting surprised by unexpected signs of youth. Young surface of Pluto, Saturn's rings, volcanically-active Io, rings around the Centaur asteroids, warm temperatures & carbonates on asteroid Ceres, ice plumes on Enceladus, etc.

  13. Re:Wandering stars, in blackest darkness forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My experience says no.

    To quote Steve Wozniak: "Science is the religion."

  14. poor saturn by sad_ · · Score: 1

    it only just got it's rings, and it's already losing them;

    https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/n...

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.