Slashdot Mirror
Is Disney's Star Wars Franchise In Trouble? (cosmicbook.news)
Disney's Han Solo movie was the first Star Wars movie to lose money. But is there a larger problem? dryriver writes:
Comic book news website Cosmic Book News reports that even though Disney put bucketloads of Star Wars out there in 2018, revenues from all things Star Wars have actually fallen, according to Disney SEC filings. Disney made more Star Wars money in 2017 -- when only Rogue One hit cinemas -- than in 2018, when Solo, Last Jedi and SW Battlefront 2 were released.
A Rian Johnson-led Star Wars trilogy appears to have been delayed or cancelled entirely. Rumored spinoff movies for Bobba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi appear to have been put on the backburner or cancelled. Disney's CEO has confirmed that the Star Wars movies are being slowed down.
A Rian Johnson-led Star Wars trilogy appears to have been delayed or cancelled entirely. Rumored spinoff movies for Bobba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi appear to have been put on the backburner or cancelled. Disney's CEO has confirmed that the Star Wars movies are being slowed down.
Release too many things, too quickly, without enough time between your releases, and people get tired of it and lose interest.
#DeleteFacebook
They've dumped hundreds of millions (billions?) into this franchise and produced 1 good movie, 2 mediocre movies, 2 mediocre TV shows, and 1 more or less bad movie, not to mention the controversy surrounding the games so far. I'm not surprised that Disney is looking to roll back their investment, it's been profitable but it wouldn't take too many more bad projects to kill off the brand. They're getting out while they're still ahead.
Personally I'd rather have my idiots at home glued to the TV than out doing idiotic things
Solo was no Episode IV or V but it was easily of the same quality as VI, and IMO, far more enjoyable than literally any of the other films.
I think Star Wars was a product of its time, and what made it great was the lack of competition. These days, eye-popping special effects are a dime a dozen, and audiences are used to aliens and blasters. It had nowhere to go but down.
It definitely can't help that the Star Wars video games are there to sell microtransactions these days, either. Over half the American public plays video games, don't tell me it doesn't matter.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
STORY. Star Wars in the 1970s had a fantastic story arch. The current batch of Star Wars movie (sans Rogue One, and Solo) have had no heart and soul. Only a bunch of special effects that are unimportant if the story is good.
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
I saw that one SW movie where Princess Leia went through space like Superman. I was wondering at the time: how did that EVER get through any editing process? Did people really look at that and say "hey, that's pretty good?". It was just weird, and I have a low bar for movies. That scene was possibly the worst scene I have seen in any movie, ever. It was just bizarre. I wasn't really paying attention to the movie until that point.
I didn't bother with Solo. Partly because of TLJ. But also partly because I had just seen a Star Wars movie and there was no anticipation or build up to wait for it. No anticipation means no drive to go. The mindset is that there's always a current Star Wars movie and it doesn't matter.
How's this a surprise?
Disney is about making money, not about art or entertainment. Their primary focus is to turn a profit on the movie they are making. So, if cutting corners makes them more money, if not consulting with the creators of the franchise or taking their advice looks like it will produce more profit, they are going to do it.
But let's face it. The original Star Wars concept was at best 3 movies and it's been down hill since The Empire Strikes Back and we are waiting for installment 9? This franchise has been driven into the ground and milked for all it was worth and then some (pun intended). Few franchises last this long with Rocky and Star Trek being about all I remember.
Disney bought an old used up sports car, that had 200,000 miles, poor tires and a bad front end out of somebodies barn. I'm not surprised they are having difficulty making money on it's restoration. Such work is a labor of love, not profit, and Disney is about the latter. I'm thinking this franchise is about over.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I didn't bother with Solo. Partly because of TLJ. But also partly because I had just seen a Star Wars movie and there was no anticipation or build up to wait for it.
Well, you can stream Solo now, and I can tell you that it's a drastically better movie than TLJ. I couldn't finish TLJ even by gaming while it was on, but I sat and actually watched Solo. I couldn't finish Episode IX either. I was so disgusted by the battle scene that I walked away. I don't go to theaters any more (just got tired of the whole hassle and expense, and I make better popcorn than they do) and the last SW movie I saw in the theater was probably TPM, which was definitely the right way to see that stinker (for the pod race.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Rogue One was better than any of the 3rd trilogy. First one was just a rehash, while the second was just trash.
Yes. Disney acquired the rights to the greatest movie franchise of all time and flooded the market. On top of this, they decided to make the tentpole of their investment (the sequel trilogy) without even so much of a sketch of a story arc. (Marvel people must be stunned at their incompetence.) And instead of sourcing great material from a vast and wonderful expanded universe to make the best proper sequel trilogy possible, they decided to make everything up as they go film-by-film, giving too much liberty to the creators. This ultimately resulted in Last Jedi. Just from a literary perspective, how did a script that broke the conventional trilogy story arc get greenlit? It's great, for example, when stories are successful with a non-conventional arc but those are the exception, and the "rule" exists for a reason. You don't bet the farm by taking a risk like that. But that's what Disney did.
Perhaps the gaping plot holes, illogical character actions, and inconsistency with decades of in-universe lore have something to do with it?
Just a thought.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Solo had nigh-impossible shoes to fill. Han Solo is one of the most iconic characters in cinema. Unless they could grow a younger clone of Harrison Ford and have him star in it, there's virtually no actor in existence who could satisfy fan expectations. Disney unwisely took a huge risk in even trying.
A much better idea would've been something more like Rogue One, focusing on less well known characters who inhabited the same universe and were integral to the plots of the original trilogy. Alas, Hollywood is bereft of original ideas these days. They think the "safe bets" are reboots, retreads, and re-use of classic cinema. Personally I'm glad Solo flopped. Maybe it'll force Hollywood to come up with something at least partially original for a change.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
They seriously fucked Last Jedi for me, and technically them as well.
The scene where Leia and Poe were on that ship preparing to escape should have been totally different.
Considering the fact Carrie, you know, died, they should have reshot that scene to make Leia knock out the Admiral, put her on the ship, then had this back and fourth between Skywalker over the force about how she shouldn't do this, make it some really sad scene about the past and embracing the new generation, and she "needs to do this".
Then BOOM, ship obliterated, Skywalker fallen to his knees broken inside, and THAT is what eventually gets him involved with the battle.
Now they have to deal with doing the CG of a dead actress and voice. Great one, you morons.
Such a trivial thing to edit that one scene and it would have made the whole film even more impacting emotionally.
"b-b-but we have 2 other films with her involved!!!".
Do what any other company does, fucking adapt.
I'm not weirded out by the fact, I think it is amazing what we can do with CG now, but it was still the inferior story-line. They missed out big time.
it was just plain a bad movie. The character motivations didn't make sense, the fight scenes were poorly choreographed and there was no character arc like in originals or even the prequels. It was just bad film making.
No idea why they gave it to Johnson. Is he Hollywood Royalty or something? His filmography is sparse. I can't imagine him being handed the keys to the kingdom on one of the largest franchises ever with Looper under his belt and damn near nothing else.
It's pretty clear what happened to. They started doing the Solo kids story, Johnson decided he wanted it to be "his" thing and not just an existing story so he changed it all at the last moment and didn't have time to make it work with his limited skillset.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The first three films had originality, actor chemistry and did not take themselves very seriously. At the time, no one had done what Star Wars had in terms of visuals. The actors played as if they lived in the films. Shit was easy to relate to. Most of Lucas's ineptness as a director was "cured" by skillful post production work. They were good, solid fun films.
Almost everything past them, especially the latest few has been super-pretentious, self-conscious in the "oh, look at me greatness" kind of way, but that's all they had. The cast and the fascination of Lucas with special effects killed the prequels. Portman, the new Vader, the vader-boy, young Kenobi, the bad motherfucker should not have been there. The post-RotJ stuff is all shit, everything in it sucks. The stories are a contrived and stupid rehash of the original trilogy. Nobody knows who the people in the new films are. Hamil and Fisher's characters were unrecognizable, Harrison Ford showed up briefly to die, the token black guy and the giftless flat-chested broad are boring and mechanical. I don't even remember the rest.
So no, the original trilogy is nothing like the rest of the crap.
The only acceptable film post RotJ was Rogue One.
I don't think it necessarily did kill the possibilities. The bad writing and production did.
You can have a good story with strong female characters and weak male characters. It just has to be a good story with a solid plot.
Search your feelings. You will know it to be true.
Reductio ad SJW is about as good as an argument as claiming that men were responsible for all bad things that happened in history, because it was always men who were the leaders.
Sorry but he was right, if the producer AND the director talk nothing but Social Justice and then the entire plot is nothing but Social Justice? Then I don't see how you can call it anything but an SJW movie.
If you would like some examples here goes...ALL MEN in the movie are shown as either weak, incompetent, reckless, or just plain idiots. Our supposed male lead (Poe) gets constantly talked down to, treated like shit, ignored and kept out of the loop, and basically treated like a child. Admiral Gender Studies OTOH is brought in after killing a character everyone actually liked for no damn reason (Akbar) and then made out to be a heroine when SHE KILLS MORE REBELS THAN HUX DOES, she kills so many in fact when I first saw it I thought the twist was she was working for the Empire as she was a better killer of rebels than Hux ever was! Then you have Mary Rey who can defeat trained Sith with ZERO studies cuz...vagina I guess? It certainly is never explained in the damn movie how she is able to defeat all these trained warriors when she was literally a scrap rat a week ago. You have Rose Tico whose whole job seems to be to bring in a completely pointless PETA message and to screw Finn out of actually getting to be anything more than a pathetic comic relief. Which is rather insulting that Lando in the 80s got to be a hero and the only black guy in the new trilogy is a pathetic bumbling sidekick but I guess being a guy trumps his being black in the Oppression Olympics. Hell even Phasma which was built up to be this bad ass evil super trooper got stuffed on a bus and run off screen because God Forbid she actually be able to fight as gasp! Shock! that would mean someone would have to raise their hand to a wamens oh noes! Oh did I mention that Laura Dern announced Admiral Gender Studies is a lesbian so they could score a few more virtue points despite whether she even had genitals or not having fuck all to do with the movie?
So I'm sorry but Kennedy and Johnson made it quite clear on social media this movie was down with Social Justice, the entire plot is based on the premise the females are never wrong and all the guys are evil or incompetent, this is right up there with Ghostbusters 2016 on the SJW scale and the ones that made it are quite proud of that and will be more than happy to tell you so so I really don't see how calling a spade a spade can be argued here.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Can you aspire to be a toy? A car? A robot? A feeling?
Not really, but Disney Pixar made it work somehow in their respective animated movies.
Have you seen Short Circuit or E.T?
How do they manage that? My hypothesis is that they probably know how to write characters and plots the audience can identify with no matter what the characters are specifically.
Have you watched Star Wars before? Terrible dialogue and so so acting with the good vs evil story line.
None of that makes for a bad movie. Also none of that is listed in the GP's complaints.
Rogue One was passable but it suffered from incredibly weak writing and poor character development. The worse is Mary Sue ... err I mean Rei .... oh look, slip of the fingers but I made my point anyway.
I know someone who writes Starwars fan fiction and actually included a character named Mary Sue in his books that wasn't as much of a Mary Sue. Zero training, magical use of the force, able to hold her own against EmoVader, it was just lazy writing. The crappy dialogue can stay as it adds charm and character, but man the writers need to go back to highschool. They all would have failed grade 9 English class with this story.
They should get Marcia in to edit. She was the real genius.
Perhaps the gaping plot holes, illogical character actions, and inconsistency with decades of in-universe lore have something to do with it?
Just a thought.
Yup, that's a big point. As well, the response to criticism was to insult and belittle those who complained. The people who complained were called unable to handle strong women, called racist and sexist.
Now while I suppose that we might make a case that fans of Star Wars are immature and foolish for attending the movies multiple times, and spending thousands on memorabilia.
But in a different Universe, Ferengi's Rules of acquisition number 57. Good customers are almost as rare as Latinum - treasure them.
The abuse hurled at passionate fans who cared enough to complain show that Kennedy, Johnson et al, who don't take telling and seem to think that the people they insulted will put up with anything. and still open their wallets. The fans said they weren't going to watch Solo. It appears to be true.
And the people the new Star Wars Power Brokers have tried to appeal to don't appear to have the same spending habits as the former fans.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
You can have a good story with strong female characters and weak male characters. I
No, you cannot. For a story to be good, it needs characters that all can aspire to. We have plenty of "strong" female and "weak" male characters in the sequels. And you need no feeling search to know it is crap. Or that you're wrong.
SJWars is simply taking the Television model of the Stupid Dumpy Husband and the Hot Smart Wife and tried to apply it to movies, only substituting not so hot women.
You simply cannot win with the people they are trying to appeal to. Remember what should have been the ultimate strong female movie, Wonder Woman, they enraged the easily offended set because Gadot didn't have armpit hair, and that since she came from a female only culture, she was raped because she couldn't really give consent.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Who fucking cares? Does having weak male characters threaten you some how?
Seriously, you mistake not likeing something with being threatened by it.
Kennedy and Johnson belittled and insulted anyone who dared to disagree with them.
Let's take a restaraunt for example. If you order a rare steak and it comes out well done, and you complain, so the manager comes out and calls you an asshole, upbraids you publicly, and if you don't like it you just aren't man enough to handle a well done steak - are you going to come back?
Unless you are a masochist - probably not.
Why don't you ask these presumably threatened males if they like the Alien Trilogy. Or if they like the early Terminator movies. TThere is a disconnect between how "strong women" were portrayed then, and the insecure vibe you get from present day movies, which has a strong undercurrent of misandry.
By the way - manshaming doesn't work any more.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'd argue that Luke's characterization make perfect sense; from a certain point of view.
Look what happens to him:
Ep 4: ... a couple of days?
He starts out as the idealist with lots of faith, sure. Then, one day, with no expectation it's be any different than any other; his surrogate parents are murdered. He sees their bodies freshly dead and realizes it was only dumb luck that he wasn't there and killed too. So he latches onto an alternate father figure who converts him to a new religion and lead him off to save the princess. Next thing you know, he's flying into the scene of the mass-murder of several billion people. He rescues the princess, sure, but then he sees his new farther figure murdered right before his eyes. He then joins the war and fires the shot that destroys the Death Star; and incidentally kills its crew of several million. That's a LOT of death to see and cause over the course of... what?
Ep 5:
He's been running for his life for a few years from Vader and the empire. He gets into a love triangle between Han and (unknown to him yet) his sister. He almost dies, sees the ghost of his father figure, sees many rebels slaughtered by Vader's forces, and takes off to meet Yoda. Yoda continues Luke's indoctrination into the Jedi religion, scares the living bejeezus out of him at the tree, shows him that his friends are in deadly peril, and tries to prevent him from going to help them. He goes anyway, is totally ineffectual, and gets his ass kicked and hand cut off by Vader. Then he finds out that Vader, who is basically space Hitler, is actually his father. Luke attempts suicide and only survives through stupid luck.
Ep 6:
Luke rescues his friends. Great. But he's already using dark side powers to do it as he romps around force-choking guards. He also personally racks up a fair body count in the process. Then he goes back to Dagobah, sees his THIRD father figure die, and finds out from FF#2's ghost that the girl he's been lusting after, and sometimes making out with, all this time is actually his sister. He endangers his friends by going with them to Endor and lets himself get captured. Palpatine torments him psychologically, has DS2 start blowing the rebel fleet into atoms, and lets him know that his friends on Endor are doomed. Luke snaps to the dark, tried to kill Palpatine, and then goes dark with anger again when his dad threatens his sister. He nearly kills his own father, is then saved by him, and then watches dad die anyway. He escapes the Death Star, with millions more deaths (Imperials plus civilian construction workers.) in his wake.
At this point alone, Luke should, by all rights, be a barely-functional quivering mass of PTSD, survivor's guilt, brain injury (Near-electrocution isn't good for you. One of the SW novels actually brought this up.), depression, and who knows what else. He wouldn't just be seeing a therapist at this point. He'd be making a whole team of psychologists and psychiatrists rich for life. And he's not the only one. Leia should be in nearly as dire straits. And the rest of the heroes hardly got off lighten the psychological trauma department. But Luke also has the pressure and burden of being the one tasked with (and the only one who can) rebuilding the Jedi order.
He would have been barely hanging-on when he did go out to train more Jedi. And, setting aside whether the details of the Luke/Ben/Kylo bit were well thought-out; he did fail and many of his students did die. That failure pushed him over the edge; so he took off to the island of the Jedi, quit using the force (ie. abandons his religion) intending never to return and to die there. For all intents and purposes, he attempts suicide a second time here. He's out there, living like a hermit for years, maybe a decade or more. That sort of solitude erodes the social graces, part of which is the concern for others.
Personally? Considering what he's been though, I'd cut the dude some slack.
Imagine all the people...
Luke faces Vader and gets his ass kicked despite some training from Yoda. Rei has no training in anything but can fly the Falcon without any pilot training, manages to escape captivity using the Force and easily beats a well-trained Force user despite never having wielded a lightsaber. But not a Mary Sue oh no.