Slashdot Mirror
Is Disney's Star Wars Franchise In Trouble? (cosmicbook.news)
Disney's Han Solo movie was the first Star Wars movie to lose money. But is there a larger problem? dryriver writes:
Comic book news website Cosmic Book News reports that even though Disney put bucketloads of Star Wars out there in 2018, revenues from all things Star Wars have actually fallen, according to Disney SEC filings. Disney made more Star Wars money in 2017 -- when only Rogue One hit cinemas -- than in 2018, when Solo, Last Jedi and SW Battlefront 2 were released.
A Rian Johnson-led Star Wars trilogy appears to have been delayed or cancelled entirely. Rumored spinoff movies for Bobba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi appear to have been put on the backburner or cancelled. Disney's CEO has confirmed that the Star Wars movies are being slowed down.
A Rian Johnson-led Star Wars trilogy appears to have been delayed or cancelled entirely. Rumored spinoff movies for Bobba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi appear to have been put on the backburner or cancelled. Disney's CEO has confirmed that the Star Wars movies are being slowed down.
Release too many things, too quickly, without enough time between your releases, and people get tired of it and lose interest.
#DeleteFacebook
They've dumped hundreds of millions (billions?) into this franchise and produced 1 good movie, 2 mediocre movies, 2 mediocre TV shows, and 1 more or less bad movie, not to mention the controversy surrounding the games so far. I'm not surprised that Disney is looking to roll back their investment, it's been profitable but it wouldn't take too many more bad projects to kill off the brand. They're getting out while they're still ahead.
Personally I'd rather have my idiots at home glued to the TV than out doing idiotic things
I think it wrongfully took the heat and backlash for the wretched Last Jedi. Last Jedi was pretty wretched and I thought Solo superior.
Solo was no Episode IV or V but it was easily of the same quality as VI, and IMO, far more enjoyable than literally any of the other films.
I think Star Wars was a product of its time, and what made it great was the lack of competition. These days, eye-popping special effects are a dime a dozen, and audiences are used to aliens and blasters. It had nowhere to go but down.
It definitely can't help that the Star Wars video games are there to sell microtransactions these days, either. Over half the American public plays video games, don't tell me it doesn't matter.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
STORY. Star Wars in the 1970s had a fantastic story arch. The current batch of Star Wars movie (sans Rogue One, and Solo) have had no heart and soul. Only a bunch of special effects that are unimportant if the story is good.
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
I saw that one SW movie where Princess Leia went through space like Superman. I was wondering at the time: how did that EVER get through any editing process? Did people really look at that and say "hey, that's pretty good?". It was just weird, and I have a low bar for movies. That scene was possibly the worst scene I have seen in any movie, ever. It was just bizarre. I wasn't really paying attention to the movie until that point.
The more you tighten your grip, Disney, the more franchises will slip through your fingers.
How's this a surprise?
Disney is about making money, not about art or entertainment. Their primary focus is to turn a profit on the movie they are making. So, if cutting corners makes them more money, if not consulting with the creators of the franchise or taking their advice looks like it will produce more profit, they are going to do it.
But let's face it. The original Star Wars concept was at best 3 movies and it's been down hill since The Empire Strikes Back and we are waiting for installment 9? This franchise has been driven into the ground and milked for all it was worth and then some (pun intended). Few franchises last this long with Rocky and Star Trek being about all I remember.
Disney bought an old used up sports car, that had 200,000 miles, poor tires and a bad front end out of somebodies barn. I'm not surprised they are having difficulty making money on it's restoration. Such work is a labor of love, not profit, and Disney is about the latter. I'm thinking this franchise is about over.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Dumbest investment Disney has ever made, hands down. The only way it could ever reasonably expect to be brought back is if they gave projects in or before the Old Republic era a real budget and kept identity politics as far away from the marketing as possible.
Rogue One was better than any of the 3rd trilogy. First one was just a rehash, while the second was just trash.
Yes. Disney acquired the rights to the greatest movie franchise of all time and flooded the market. On top of this, they decided to make the tentpole of their investment (the sequel trilogy) without even so much of a sketch of a story arc. (Marvel people must be stunned at their incompetence.) And instead of sourcing great material from a vast and wonderful expanded universe to make the best proper sequel trilogy possible, they decided to make everything up as they go film-by-film, giving too much liberty to the creators. This ultimately resulted in Last Jedi. Just from a literary perspective, how did a script that broke the conventional trilogy story arc get greenlit? It's great, for example, when stories are successful with a non-conventional arc but those are the exception, and the "rule" exists for a reason. You don't bet the farm by taking a risk like that. But that's what Disney did.
Perhaps the gaping plot holes, illogical character actions, and inconsistency with decades of in-universe lore have something to do with it?
Just a thought.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Have you watched Star Wars before? Terrible dialogue and so so acting with the good vs evil story line. Sure the original movies set the bar for special effects but that was it. The prequels were 100% garbage. I liked Rogue One though.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
They seriously fucked Last Jedi for me, and technically them as well.
The scene where Leia and Poe were on that ship preparing to escape should have been totally different.
Considering the fact Carrie, you know, died, they should have reshot that scene to make Leia knock out the Admiral, put her on the ship, then had this back and fourth between Skywalker over the force about how she shouldn't do this, make it some really sad scene about the past and embracing the new generation, and she "needs to do this".
Then BOOM, ship obliterated, Skywalker fallen to his knees broken inside, and THAT is what eventually gets him involved with the battle.
Now they have to deal with doing the CG of a dead actress and voice. Great one, you morons.
Such a trivial thing to edit that one scene and it would have made the whole film even more impacting emotionally.
"b-b-but we have 2 other films with her involved!!!".
Do what any other company does, fucking adapt.
I'm not weirded out by the fact, I think it is amazing what we can do with CG now, but it was still the inferior story-line. They missed out big time.
So...you're saying that Rian Johnson killed Star Wars, because they were the one that went a head with pissing all over existing cannon, lore, and so-forth.
Om, nomnomnom...
I didn't watch it in the theaters for the same reason a lot of people didn't, which is a shame. Solo was about Han Solo but unlike even Rogue One, it didn't feel the need to wink and nod at the audience every few minutes. I think it may be my second-favorite Star Wars film after Empire.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Well, if they criticized that, then they'd actually made a good point. There's tons of stuff that you may not like there.
But if you see post that focus on the SJW aspect, you pretty much know that they just jumped on the bandwagon and don't really have a lot of points on their own. I think it really says a lot about the person's own preoccupation with gender bullshit.
To use an analogy: It's kind of like saying that midi-chlorians ruined the prequels.
Yes, it was a stupid idea. They should not have done it that way. But is that really the main thing you should focus on when levering criticism towards those movies? Would the movies have been better if they did it different? Would Episode 7 and 8 have been better if they changed the gender roles?
Personally I do not think so. Gaping plot holes would still be there. Illogical character actions would still be there. Inconsistencies and or retconning would still be there.
The Last Jedi has the lowest user score on Rotten Tomatoes (45%) of any major Star Wars film. It's lower even than the prequel films (59%, 56%, 65%, respectively), it's lower than the less-than-stellar Solo (64%), and it's certainly less than the decently well-regarded Rogue One (86%). If you want to pin Solo's failure on anything other than itself, pin it franchise fatigue (too many movies, too fast) and more specifically on The Last Jedi, which utterly failed to connect with audiences and was still fresh on everyone's minds since it had come out just a few months prior.
As for Rogue One, I'll grant that it was a significant departure for the franchise, so it didn't feel like a Star Wars episode, but they never said it was supposed to be one. Quite the contrary, they made it clear that they were going for something different that was set in the same universe, and with that in mind, I'd say it was a smashing success, both critically and commercially. It was a good film in its own right, despite being disliked by a handful of people, such as yourself, who couldn't enjoy it for what it was.
You had me until you brought the SJW thing into it. The movie just sucked in it's own right not because you are threatened by women.
There's just too much Star Wars crap being put out.
That's what I think as well. I think a Star Wars movie of some kind about every two years is about right... much more than that and you start burning people out.
I also liked Solo quite a bit and thought it was a shame that it seemed to be the movie that made them pull back so heavily, when really Last Jedi should have been the movie to cause them to re-think things...
I still look forward to the third movie though just for closure. But I'm glad it's not coming this year.
You should see Solo as I think it will un-burn you in that a lot of it is just fun.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
it was just plain a bad movie. The character motivations didn't make sense, the fight scenes were poorly choreographed and there was no character arc like in originals or even the prequels. It was just bad film making.
No idea why they gave it to Johnson. Is he Hollywood Royalty or something? His filmography is sparse. I can't imagine him being handed the keys to the kingdom on one of the largest franchises ever with Looper under his belt and damn near nothing else.
It's pretty clear what happened to. They started doing the Solo kids story, Johnson decided he wanted it to be "his" thing and not just an existing story so he changed it all at the last moment and didn't have time to make it work with his limited skillset.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
He likes all three movies! Pity that they never made more...
Ezekiel 23:20
from other movies. It's basically Lensmen, the 7 Samurai with a bit of WWII dogfighting thrown in. And the Last Jedi Still cleared $1.3 _billion_ on a $300 million dollar budge. Even if they spent twice that promoting it they still made $600 million.
The reports of it's death are greatly exaggerated.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The first three films had originality, actor chemistry and did not take themselves very seriously. At the time, no one had done what Star Wars had in terms of visuals. The actors played as if they lived in the films. Shit was easy to relate to. Most of Lucas's ineptness as a director was "cured" by skillful post production work. They were good, solid fun films.
Almost everything past them, especially the latest few has been super-pretentious, self-conscious in the "oh, look at me greatness" kind of way, but that's all they had. The cast and the fascination of Lucas with special effects killed the prequels. Portman, the new Vader, the vader-boy, young Kenobi, the bad motherfucker should not have been there. The post-RotJ stuff is all shit, everything in it sucks. The stories are a contrived and stupid rehash of the original trilogy. Nobody knows who the people in the new films are. Hamil and Fisher's characters were unrecognizable, Harrison Ford showed up briefly to die, the token black guy and the giftless flat-chested broad are boring and mechanical. I don't even remember the rest.
So no, the original trilogy is nothing like the rest of the crap.
The only acceptable film post RotJ was Rogue One.
No, that can't be it. They always had gaping plot holes. The original ones were full of them too. Star Trek didn't seem to have a problem going inconsistent with decades of in-universe lore either. It seems to be that people just don't care for Star Wars much anymore or they want it to be more campy like the originals and not take itself so seriously. I'm one of the fortunate few who have enjoyed every one of the movies though.
Ask yourself this then. Did the SJW angle forced by Disney kill the possibility of a good story in the sequels? You know the answer is "yes". Just like the answer to the question "Did Lucas's obsession with irrelevant detail (of which the 'medichlorians' is the shining symbol) kill the possibility of having good prequels?" is also "yes".
And do you know what is the saddest part? That the image of the young Leia, leading a Rebellion while shaking her tits and looking like a heroine of a "next door neighbor" gonzo was much more of an "empowering girl role model" than all the vampiric old skeletons or the "wholesome", sexless Ridley of the new films.
The prequels and the sequels are a lesson in fail.
With some exceptions, the last 20 years or so of Hollywood movies have been retreads of retreads, the same ideas over and over again, and in many cases just outright remakes of old movies. For something like Star Wars, I think you need to mothball it for a generation, then spin a new version of it, when almost nobody is alive to even remember it -- but how about someone comes up with something new instead, eh?
It is important to note that the Poe vs Lesbian subplot would have never happened without SJW subtext. There is a difference between powerful women and incompetent women that we are told are powerful only because they are women. It is distracting and has nothing to do with a space adventure.
Disney corporate greed can f up The Lords Prayer
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
You mean the plot holes and illogical character actions that have been there since the original trilogy? Or perhaps you mean the "in-universe lore" that Lucas himself publicly stated that while he liked some of it and found it interesting, he nevertheless reserved the right to contradict any time he liked?
What long-running franchise does NOT have plot holes and illogical character actions? I won't hold my breath waiting for you to come up with one.
And as for "in-universe lore" that was always one of the major problems that arose when the Star Wars crowd invented their own "anything with the logo is canon" definition. The traditional Usenet definition of canon: "If it's filmed, it's canon. If not, it's apocryphal." presents far fewer problems. You do not, after all, see Star Trek fans getting all butthurt because TNG presents warp drive working differently than it was presented in "The Entropy Effect", presents the transporter working differently than was stated in "The Kobayashi Alternative", or that everything save fan-produced YouTube works ignores FASA's "Four Years War" RPG materials. Or, for that matter, even though Enterprise's "stolen human augment DNA" plot line is kind of a dumb way to explain the changes in various Klingon appearances; there's no general Trek fan outcry of: "How DARE Paramount contradict FASA's Imperial and Hybrid Klingons!?!?!" the way Wars fans rant and rage about the Star Wars sequels not being the Thrawn Trilogy or ignoring the whole Sun Crusher nonsense, or not including the Yuuzhan Vong and Fel Empire.
Far better to just consider secondary and un-filmed miscellanea to be "entertaining but disposable", as was the usenet standard back in the r.a.s.t days; and only hold filmed material to be legitimate. It makes for fewer of these sort of headaches.
Imagine all the people...
I don't think it necessarily did kill the possibilities. The bad writing and production did.
You can have a good story with strong female characters and weak male characters. It just has to be a good story with a solid plot.
Search your feelings. You will know it to be true.
Reductio ad SJW is about as good as an argument as claiming that men were responsible for all bad things that happened in history, because it was always men who were the leaders.
So giving the games license to EA was a really stupid thing to do.
Another one was the hyperdrive suicide attack in TLJ. If you could do that, just stick a hyperdrive engine on an asteroid and chuck it at a starship, no fleet commander with a brain in their head would ever build a Star Destroyer or cruiser anymore, 'cause their enemies would just rip them apart from outside weapons range.
And since hyperdrive tech hasn't really changed since the days of The Old Republic... most Star Wars space combat history is invalidated.
You can have a good story with strong female characters and weak male characters. I
No, you cannot. For a story to be good, it needs characters that all can aspire to. We have plenty of "strong" female and "weak" male characters in the sequels. And you need no feeling search to know it is crap. Or that you're wrong.
Sorry but he was right, if the producer AND the director talk nothing but Social Justice and then the entire plot is nothing but Social Justice? Then I don't see how you can call it anything but an SJW movie.
If you would like some examples here goes...ALL MEN in the movie are shown as either weak, incompetent, reckless, or just plain idiots. Our supposed male lead (Poe) gets constantly talked down to, treated like shit, ignored and kept out of the loop, and basically treated like a child. Admiral Gender Studies OTOH is brought in after killing a character everyone actually liked for no damn reason (Akbar) and then made out to be a heroine when SHE KILLS MORE REBELS THAN HUX DOES, she kills so many in fact when I first saw it I thought the twist was she was working for the Empire as she was a better killer of rebels than Hux ever was! Then you have Mary Rey who can defeat trained Sith with ZERO studies cuz...vagina I guess? It certainly is never explained in the damn movie how she is able to defeat all these trained warriors when she was literally a scrap rat a week ago. You have Rose Tico whose whole job seems to be to bring in a completely pointless PETA message and to screw Finn out of actually getting to be anything more than a pathetic comic relief. Which is rather insulting that Lando in the 80s got to be a hero and the only black guy in the new trilogy is a pathetic bumbling sidekick but I guess being a guy trumps his being black in the Oppression Olympics. Hell even Phasma which was built up to be this bad ass evil super trooper got stuffed on a bus and run off screen because God Forbid she actually be able to fight as gasp! Shock! that would mean someone would have to raise their hand to a wamens oh noes! Oh did I mention that Laura Dern announced Admiral Gender Studies is a lesbian so they could score a few more virtue points despite whether she even had genitals or not having fuck all to do with the movie?
So I'm sorry but Kennedy and Johnson made it quite clear on social media this movie was down with Social Justice, the entire plot is based on the premise the females are never wrong and all the guys are evil or incompetent, this is right up there with Ghostbusters 2016 on the SJW scale and the ones that made it are quite proud of that and will be more than happy to tell you so so I really don't see how calling a spade a spade can be argued here.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Midichlorians upset quite a lot of the fan base, but that was based on canon of a fantasy setting.
The Identity Politics card that's been played (very prominently) is all about being patronising to a whole segment of the fan base in the real world.
Again, it's pretty much what Gillette have done with their recent advertisement. The vast majority of people who this is 'targetted' at already know the 'message', and already live their lives in such a fashion as to render it irrelevant to say it. It's like having a micromanager at work. After the 500th time in a day they tell you _how_ to do something you already know how to do, it irritates the crap out of you, and you just know that you'll have years of having to endure this if you stay.
Can you aspire to be a toy? A car? A robot? A feeling?
Not really, but Disney Pixar made it work somehow in their respective animated movies.
Have you seen Short Circuit or E.T?
How do they manage that? My hypothesis is that they probably know how to write characters and plots the audience can identify with no matter what the characters are specifically.
I scanned the thread as it exists so far, and there seems to be a correlation between SW movies in the Disney era: episodes that discerning viewers like lose money, while episodes that discerning viewers dislike make money.
80% of the available viewership wants a popcorn movie set in space. But you don't want too much immediate grumbling from the discerning crowd, as that might snowball into a social media buzzkill. So what the writers did was Sheldonize it: embed enough fetish lore to keep Sheldon & company immersed in their game night man-toys rather than tweeting toxic takedowns.
J.J. Abrams Reveals the Meaning of Rey's Flashback in "The Force Awakens" — 20 October 2016
This is the ultimate sensory-overload pastiche of everything they needed to accomplish: heaps of Sheldon-appropriate fish food (but it all goes by so quickly the popcorn crowd barely notices), a nod to the Superheros in Spandex "orphan" trope, and there's nothing to tense up the snowflake crowd like perplexed isolation (what they are really thinking: OMG all of this and no Twitter to unbundle her soul).
This is why Rey isn't actually a Mary Sue: yes, she manifests preternatural skills like a genetic amalgam of Wesley Crusher, Jason Bourne and the seven barely distinguishable shades of Robert Downey Jr. (Sherlock Holmes, Fe+2 Man, Fe+3 Man, etc) but she hasn't got social media, nor a single person to favorite, even if she had social media, which she hasn't—OMG. This is more larded with tension to the social media snowflake than a Jules Verne retelling of the Achilles myth from the perspective of a giant squid, whose fatal weakness is replicated on the underside of every giant suction cup. It doesn't matter than Rey has ten giant, undiscovered arms that can each uproot massive trees; what matters is that she's got no-one to tell.
The forceback sequence also tests wu positive: the viewer can discern any mixture of telepathy, telekinesis, the original force, the postmodern force with midichlorians, the postmodern force without midichlorians, fate, predestination, Freudian self-revelation, and even a small hint of dramatic foreshadowing (here a small contingent of the audience perks up "oh, so they do actually know that literature exists" and this potentially glues them into their seats for another 15 minutes). It's a giant glueball of as-you-like-it, each to their own.
I new the entire trilogy was doomed the moment this sequence crossed the screen (as a result, I only seen fragments of the subsequent movies, such as one finds on YouTube).
No surprise to me to discover that Luke jettisons his Freudian-freighted lightsaber to establish his postmodern break as his first hominid act (he's barely more than one of the primordial monkey-men
This thinking is what is wrong with Supergirl. The show succeeds because the side characters are not inherently weak.
Win is a clever computer tech. The Martian Manhunter can handle his own, and has his own story arc.
Jimmy Olsen works because his narrative is a deconstruction of the very notion that male characters have to be weak and attracted to the female lead. He plays into the trope, and fights against it.
Finn deserves to be a character equal to Rey, like Han Solo to Luke. We're just used to Disney pairing characters like Finn and his admirer together, and hindering the character's strengths. It can be said she admires Finn because he is on the hero's path. One where he is willing to self-sacrifice. Okay, I think I am seeing a potential payoff in The Last Jedi's script... If Disney can "redeem" Finn, and preserve his character despite convincing him that he is misguided...
TLJ still sucks as a movie though...
I don't watch "animated movies", so I have nothing to say about them, but from what you say, they are not a story with strong female/weak male characters by producer request. I've seen E.T., though, and I definitely remember it NOT being "a good story with strong female characters and weak male characters". So maybe you really don't know what you're talking about.
If you watch the Last Jedi and cheer for the bad guys, it's actually a really good movie.
But now I'm conflicted because the empire needs to win!
I hope the last Star Wars film ends up with most of the rebels getting killed or going into hiding.
That Chinese chick Rose that ruined TLJ is killed in some hilarious way.
Poe is offered to join the empire, and does. Becomes an elite soldier who hunts done rebel scum.
It would make up for an otherwise hilarious end to a ruined franchise.
The prequels were 100% garbage.
Nah, pod racing sounded awesome and produced a pretty fun video game (it was impressive on the N64, if not the PC.) Everything else was garbage, though. What percentage of the series was the pod race, and what percentage of the pod race do we have to subtract for child "acting"?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That's exactly why it failed...
And a T posing Leia doing a Mary Poppins in space was the moment the franchise "jumped the shark".
The purple haired sjw preachy lesbian was completely unnecessary and made zero sense to the plot.
Leia should have went out piloting the ship that suicide bombed the fleet.
Beside that a slow speed chase over running out of gas also had zero place and made no sense in star wars lore.
The thing about the "SJW" angle of the "oh no where's the nearest gas station" movie is that it was jammed in there for no real reason beyond "see, woman strong, man weak arsehole, fire burn." They could have removed all the in-your-face crap and still had strong male AND female leaders who worked together for the goal instead of turning Poe 180 degrees in his character.
Go drink a bottle of bleach you communist mongoloid
Do the world a favor and after kissing more bolshevik ass like you only know how to, go martyr yourself for your lord and savior Trotsky.
My point is that you can emphasize with whatever as long as the characters and plots are solid. If we can see beyond species, maybe we can see beyond gender? A difficult thought concept?
A strong female character can work. See Alien or Terminator. Weak male characters can work. Although here I can't name any specific movies, because most of them have proper character development.
In general all 'good' characters have both flaws/weaknesses and strengths. Sometimes there are no real strengths to begin with and they only emerge later through plot development where the character fights to overcome obstacles or dies.
That's where the new Star Wars are lacking in my opinion. You've got your Mary Sue type characters, who are just too powerful and with to few flaws, which happen to be female characters. Then you've got incompetent characters who just suck at pretty much everything on the side of the 'bad guys', who happen to be male.
Imagine general Holdo being a male character. An old aristocrat who looks down on hot-shot Poe because he doesn't like his boorish behaviour and tactics. So he pulls rank to keep Poe down. I can tell you that the audience would have disliked that character.
And through that 'reductio ad SJW'-filter you again could say that this is the SJW way to depict how the patriarchy puts down the common man.
Donnie Yen? I thought he was a great addition to it. Then again, I was a fan of him in the Ip Man franchise before I went to see Rogue One, so I'll admit my perspective with regards to him is colored by past experience. Either way, however, he didn't play a significant role in Rogue One, so it seems odd that he'd be a reason to hate the movie, even if you did find him cringeworthy in it.
Have you watched Star Wars before? Terrible dialogue and so so acting with the good vs evil story line.
None of that makes for a bad movie. Also none of that is listed in the GP's complaints.
Rogue One was passable but it suffered from incredibly weak writing and poor character development. The worse is Mary Sue ... err I mean Rei .... oh look, slip of the fingers but I made my point anyway.
I know someone who writes Starwars fan fiction and actually included a character named Mary Sue in his books that wasn't as much of a Mary Sue. Zero training, magical use of the force, able to hold her own against EmoVader, it was just lazy writing. The crappy dialogue can stay as it adds charm and character, but man the writers need to go back to highschool. They all would have failed grade 9 English class with this story.
To be honest, I didn't really like any of the movies as a whole. With all the money, time, and today's technology they got at their disposal they ought to have done a much better job.
Finn was the one character I liked in TFA.
He had a dramatic past. He was part of 'the bad guys'. He didn't like it there. He did something on his own to change things and got out. He joined the resistance. And he kept fighting until he was wounded critically (?).
That is a pretty solid character development that made Finn interesting, although it certainly could be better.
I did not appreciate that much what they did to him in TLJ. They were making him mostly a coward who just wanted to get away from things, abandoning his comrades in arms in the process. To keep himself together and rooted in reality he needed a better half because he couldn't do it on his own.
Here I interpreted his self-sacrifice as a suicide attempt. Another way to escape a situation he didn't want to be in. However not by fighting for a chance to change things (hero's death), but by essentially giving up through suicide. Essentially a soldier with PTSD who tried to quit service in yet another military but is forced by the circumstances to keep fighting.
It is reasonable that someone like that needs some external help. But for the sake of the story, eventually Finn should find some solid ground and then start to pull his own weight again.
This is how I see things anyway. Doesn't mean that it is the only possibility. I can only be more certain after I've seen the next movie.
They should get Marcia in to edit. She was the real genius.
You don't need to be threatened by women to see forced decisions that make no fucking sense be put in for the sole purpose of "empowering women". Don't get me wrong it would still be a turd of a movie if it weren't for the SJW trend, but you turning a blind I to it (I refuse to think you're actually blind enough not to see the absurdity that came out of the shithouse attempt at making powerful and relevant female characters) is not helping the situation at all.
Now I'm going to bow out of this discussion like an elite tie fighter pilot escaping the enemy in a tie fighter while getting shot, ... being piloted by a diversity hire mechanic who needs to look powerful because reasons.
Now I'd like to explain it to you some more, but right now I'm going to go all Admiral Holdo on you and leave you here in the dark for no fucking reason what so ever.
Thing is, you can ignore all that and it's still not a good movie.
It opens with a prank phone call. In Star Wars. From a - I guess they're "resistance" in this trilogy - fighter to the - er, evil First Order? That's what they're going with? Anyway, from the "good guys" to the "bad guys." This is apparently a strategy to prevent them from shooting down his X-Wing, which somehow works, so that he's allowed to destroy all the anti-air cannons with no resistance for no reason. Then they launch bombers, which apparently were intended as a feint, because his big "he's a man" flaw here is supposed to be pressing the attack and not immediately withdrawing, which makes no fucking sense even if you ignore the fact that it's supposed to be flawed because he's a man.
Then somehow space bombers need to have the bombs physically pushed out of the bomber bay so they can fall onto the enemy spaceship, which wouldn't really make sense even if this was the World War II setting the space fighting in Star Wars is supposed to be based off. And then the bomb lady may have some Force powers or something, maybe, or maybe the space gravity pulling the bombs down helped, who even knows.
We then jump to the world's slowest chase sequence, where I guess they only have enough FTL fuel which is distinct from normal fuel to make one jump, but the First Order can now follow them through hyperspace, which apparently is a thing you can't do in Star Wars, despite the fact that such a thing has never been mentioned. I suppose it makes sense if their sensors only operate at the speed of light, but there's probably enough shown in the previous movies to contradict that, but who cares.
This chase makes ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING SENSE and is the main plot of the movie, because during it the main characters are shown freely leaving and rejoining the fleet, and the only way this works as a chase is if we assume literally none of the First Order ships can just pop into hyperspace to get in front of them to surround them. Maybe they wouldn't be able to locate the fleet - except our heroes can apparently get back to the ships via transponders or something. So it stands to reason that some of the First Order fleet could break off, hyperspace jump ahead, and turn around and pop back in front of the Resistance fleet. Or they could just call in more ships. Unless literally the entire First Order fleet was following them. We can safely ignore it taking too long because Rey comes from what's supposed to be the other side of the entire galaxy on the Millennium Falcon in a matter of maybe hours if we're being charitable. And we know it has to be that short because she's been having telepathic conversations with Kylo Ren and therefore we know she left after the chase began!
Even if you ignore the SJW "men are always idiots" plot, the rest of the movie doesn't make any sort of sense.
I've seen every Star Wars film (except Solo), and most of them many times. Yet, for the life of me, I can only describe the plot of the original trilogy.
I personally think that you are bringing a lot of baggage to the table when judging the new movies.
I was born in 1976 and, while I didn't see the original in the theater (I did see Empire and Return in the theater), these movies were a staple for me throughout my childhood and I love them. I am as invested in the franchise as any SW fan.
That said, I think that Force Awakens and Last Jedi movies were phenomenal.
I wish those had been the movies I had grown up with. Rey's "hero's journey" is so much better than Luke's was. Let's face it, Luke just came off as a whiny entitled baby. I never liked Luke or his story except for, briefly, in Return, when he faces Jabba. I feel like that was the Luke that we saw in Last Jedi.
I think you just need to take these movies at face value and don't let a bunch of external inputs or nostalgia taint your view.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Perhaps the gaping plot holes, illogical character actions, and inconsistency with decades of in-universe lore have something to do with it?
Just a thought.
Yup, that's a big point. As well, the response to criticism was to insult and belittle those who complained. The people who complained were called unable to handle strong women, called racist and sexist.
Now while I suppose that we might make a case that fans of Star Wars are immature and foolish for attending the movies multiple times, and spending thousands on memorabilia.
But in a different Universe, Ferengi's Rules of acquisition number 57. Good customers are almost as rare as Latinum - treasure them.
The abuse hurled at passionate fans who cared enough to complain show that Kennedy, Johnson et al, who don't take telling and seem to think that the people they insulted will put up with anything. and still open their wallets. The fans said they weren't going to watch Solo. It appears to be true.
And the people the new Star Wars Power Brokers have tried to appeal to don't appear to have the same spending habits as the former fans.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
So...you're saying that Rian Johnson killed Star Wars, because they were the one that went a head with pissing all over existing cannon, lore, and so-forth.
Pretty much. And the out of character Luke Skywalker - the most revered character in the whole series - was jarring.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Rose is basically the same worthless character and dragged Finn into her worthless story arc, and Luke has turned into a soy boy to make our Mary Sue look better in comparison.
I heard that Rose was put in the movie to Make JarJar Binks look good.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
You can have a good story with strong female characters and weak male characters. I
No, you cannot. For a story to be good, it needs characters that all can aspire to. We have plenty of "strong" female and "weak" male characters in the sequels. And you need no feeling search to know it is crap. Or that you're wrong.
SJWars is simply taking the Television model of the Stupid Dumpy Husband and the Hot Smart Wife and tried to apply it to movies, only substituting not so hot women.
You simply cannot win with the people they are trying to appeal to. Remember what should have been the ultimate strong female movie, Wonder Woman, they enraged the easily offended set because Gadot didn't have armpit hair, and that since she came from a female only culture, she was raped because she couldn't really give consent.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Can you aspire to be a toy? A car? A robot? A feeling? Not really, but Disney Pixar made it work somehow in their respective animated movies. Have you seen Short Circuit or E.T? How do they manage that? My hypothesis is that they probably know how to write characters and plots the audience can identify with no matter what the characters are specifically.
But they couldn't have the line "Mmmm, nice software, Stephanie!" in a movie today. Well, maybe if it was a female robot walking in on Sheedy in the bath.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I don't watch "animated movies", so I have nothing to say about them, but from what you say, they are not a story with strong female/weak male characters by producer request. I've seen E.T., though, and I definitely remember it NOT being "a good story with strong female characters and weak male characters". So maybe you really don't know what you're talking about.
That wasn't what he was talking about. They had characters who were whatever they needed to be. Besides, what is supposed to be a strong femal character today is some woman with a bad attitude. Which is strange, because I read today's "strong female leads" as insecure instead of strong.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
You don't have a point. The story is weak because it is contrived, and it is contrived because of the requirement to show "strong womens" in a particular manner.
That's all.
You need to do some research on Kathleen Kennedy, et al.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
This thinking is what is wrong with Supergirl. The show succeeds because the side characters are not inherently weak.
I'm waiting for a Superman movie with a female Superman, and a Supergirl Movie with a trans guy who used to be a trans woman who used to be a trans guy.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
So here's the thing.
I also watched and found it to be a disappointing movie, basically a bunch of characters not talking for no good reason and making stupid decisions. And there were a couple weird bits that felt preachy, but this obsession with seeing it as a "SJW" movie is just on you.
If you would like some examples here goes...ALL MEN in the movie are shown as either weak, incompetent, reckless, or just plain idiots.
Luke was none of these things.
Admiral Gender Studies OTOH is brought in after killing a character everyone actually liked for no damn reason (Akbar) and then made out to be a heroine when SHE KILLS MORE REBELS THAN HUX DOES
She was a crappy leader for keeping her plan secret (the lazy screen writer's version of dramatic tension) but basically played the one move she had.
Then you have Mary Rey who can defeat trained Sith with ZERO studies cuz...vagina I guess?
If Rey was a male it would have been one of the most standard character outlines in existence. Absolutely nothing was unusual about Rey except her gender.
Oh, and she got personal training with Luke Skywalker plus we know she's super-powerful in the force which gives you a bunch of bonus bad-assery.
It certainly is never explained in the damn movie how she is able to defeat all these trained warriors when she was literally a scrap rat a week ago
Well actually in her introduction in the first movie it was shown that being a "scrap rat" involved her learning to be a pretty competent fighter.
Which is rather insulting that Lando in the 80s got to be a hero and the only black guy in the new trilogy is a pathetic bumbling sidekick but I guess being a guy trumps his being black in the Oppression Olympics.
Or your massive obsession with race and gender means you'll find a flaw with anything.
"Girl is the hero??? That's so preachy and SJW!!! Black guy is the B-plot comic relief protagonist? Ha! They're being racist!!""
Hell even Phasma which was built up to be this bad ass evil super trooper got stuffed on a bus and run off screen because God Forbid she actually be able to fight as gasp! Shock! that would mean someone would have to raise their hand to a wamens oh noes!
I'm not even sure what you're talking about now.
So I'm sorry but Kennedy and Johnson made it quite clear on social media this movie was down with Social Justice,
Maybe, but that's not why it was an underwhelming movie.
the entire plot is based on the premise the females are never wrong and all the guys are evil or incompetent,
They inverted some gender roles, it's not that big a deal. I've seen plenty of films with super-sexist bits and enjoyed them just fine otherwise.
this is right up there with Ghostbusters 2016 on the SJW scale
A decent movie that insecure guys massively overreacted to?
I stole this Sig
You had me until you brought the SJW thing into it. The movie just sucked in it's own right not because you are threatened by women.
Not jumping off a bridge is a SJW move. Now you have to because I wrote that.
No, don't. Just understand that your outlook makes you as manipulable as a Fox News viewer, who wants rebellion because we had a Kenyan president.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
To be fair, the primary complaint of illogical character actions is Luke's story arc and "backstory" for Kylo Ren. Which is a followup to one of the most important threads, and some would say "THE" thread of the original movies, as opposed to some background element.
It is Luke betraying the very core of the moral of the original trilogy. And THEN he goes into Exile while the galaxy suffers from his mistake. He was the brash cocky farmhand who was reckless and always in over his head, but who had faith and conviction and perserverance to see him through. He also had faith in his friends. To see him as somebody who just stands by and does nothing out of fear of failure, is a stark contrast to who he was.
Who fucking cares? Does having weak male characters threaten you some how?
Seriously, you mistake not likeing something with being threatened by it.
Kennedy and Johnson belittled and insulted anyone who dared to disagree with them.
Let's take a restaraunt for example. If you order a rare steak and it comes out well done, and you complain, so the manager comes out and calls you an asshole, upbraids you publicly, and if you don't like it you just aren't man enough to handle a well done steak - are you going to come back?
Unless you are a masochist - probably not.
Why don't you ask these presumably threatened males if they like the Alien Trilogy. Or if they like the early Terminator movies. TThere is a disconnect between how "strong women" were portrayed then, and the insecure vibe you get from present day movies, which has a strong undercurrent of misandry.
By the way - manshaming doesn't work any more.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
That's exactly why it failed...
And a T posing Leia doing a Mary Poppins in space was the moment the franchise "jumped the shark".
The purple haired sjw preachy lesbian was completely unnecessary and made zero sense to the plot.
Leia should have went out piloting the ship that suicide bombed the fleet.
Beside that a slow speed chase over running out of gas also had zero place and made no sense in star wars lore.
You forgot the part about how Luke Skywalker must have been taking meds or had a mental breakdown that completely changed his character. Talk about jarring.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
but for the vast majority of us it just didn't matter.
Rey didn't make those actions scenes a confused, laughable mess where people throw out attacks for no good reason, Rian Johnson did. The same goes for making Luke a depressed, whinny old goat.
Of course they want the old fans. The movie is chock full of fan service, so much that it crowds out the story. Rey is trying so hard to be Luke and Luke to be Obi-wan. That's not virtue signalling, that's bad story telling.
SJWism is annoying, but it's not the world ending event folks make it out to be. Take the couple of SJWish things out of the movie and you've still got a bad movie. Not because the people involved were busy virtue signaling, but because they're just not very good at making movies.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
IMO, this guy explains it pretty well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
to indicate he could be trusted with a by the book movie. He just doesn't have enough experience directing large projects. It's weird. Abrams I get. He had a ton of big, successful movies under his belt (that I hated, but that's just me).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Standard? Luke got his hand chopped off by the bad guy at that point in his story arc/training, and was taking cover from blaster fire. Luke was lucky in Episode V, not skilled. Vader had the upper hand the entire fight, and he knew it. Vader was going easy on Luke. Luke wasn't a one man army until Episode III. And though Luke knew how to fly, that didn't make him the best pilot. He was a likely a better shot than Wedge or Biggs with all his practice against Womp rats. That is why they put him leading the approach in IV.
Rey was skilled with her staff combat, not lightsaber combat. She should have situational awareness, but she shouldn't have been so capable with a lightsaber. Kylo Ren had more training under Luke than Rey had at that point, and should have kept up his training, especially with the threat of Luke still out there. There isn't enough of a sense of a passing of time for Rey's training to be as extensive as Luke's. She's not only naturally better than her peers, she's magically better than everybody else, and from previous films "That's not how the force works!".
I'd argue that Luke's characterization make perfect sense; from a certain point of view.
Look what happens to him:
Ep 4: ... a couple of days?
He starts out as the idealist with lots of faith, sure. Then, one day, with no expectation it's be any different than any other; his surrogate parents are murdered. He sees their bodies freshly dead and realizes it was only dumb luck that he wasn't there and killed too. So he latches onto an alternate father figure who converts him to a new religion and lead him off to save the princess. Next thing you know, he's flying into the scene of the mass-murder of several billion people. He rescues the princess, sure, but then he sees his new farther figure murdered right before his eyes. He then joins the war and fires the shot that destroys the Death Star; and incidentally kills its crew of several million. That's a LOT of death to see and cause over the course of... what?
Ep 5:
He's been running for his life for a few years from Vader and the empire. He gets into a love triangle between Han and (unknown to him yet) his sister. He almost dies, sees the ghost of his father figure, sees many rebels slaughtered by Vader's forces, and takes off to meet Yoda. Yoda continues Luke's indoctrination into the Jedi religion, scares the living bejeezus out of him at the tree, shows him that his friends are in deadly peril, and tries to prevent him from going to help them. He goes anyway, is totally ineffectual, and gets his ass kicked and hand cut off by Vader. Then he finds out that Vader, who is basically space Hitler, is actually his father. Luke attempts suicide and only survives through stupid luck.
Ep 6:
Luke rescues his friends. Great. But he's already using dark side powers to do it as he romps around force-choking guards. He also personally racks up a fair body count in the process. Then he goes back to Dagobah, sees his THIRD father figure die, and finds out from FF#2's ghost that the girl he's been lusting after, and sometimes making out with, all this time is actually his sister. He endangers his friends by going with them to Endor and lets himself get captured. Palpatine torments him psychologically, has DS2 start blowing the rebel fleet into atoms, and lets him know that his friends on Endor are doomed. Luke snaps to the dark, tried to kill Palpatine, and then goes dark with anger again when his dad threatens his sister. He nearly kills his own father, is then saved by him, and then watches dad die anyway. He escapes the Death Star, with millions more deaths (Imperials plus civilian construction workers.) in his wake.
At this point alone, Luke should, by all rights, be a barely-functional quivering mass of PTSD, survivor's guilt, brain injury (Near-electrocution isn't good for you. One of the SW novels actually brought this up.), depression, and who knows what else. He wouldn't just be seeing a therapist at this point. He'd be making a whole team of psychologists and psychiatrists rich for life. And he's not the only one. Leia should be in nearly as dire straits. And the rest of the heroes hardly got off lighten the psychological trauma department. But Luke also has the pressure and burden of being the one tasked with (and the only one who can) rebuilding the Jedi order.
He would have been barely hanging-on when he did go out to train more Jedi. And, setting aside whether the details of the Luke/Ben/Kylo bit were well thought-out; he did fail and many of his students did die. That failure pushed him over the edge; so he took off to the island of the Jedi, quit using the force (ie. abandons his religion) intending never to return and to die there. For all intents and purposes, he attempts suicide a second time here. He's out there, living like a hermit for years, maybe a decade or more. That sort of solitude erodes the social graces, part of which is the concern for others.
Personally? Considering what he's been though, I'd cut the dude some slack.
Imagine all the people...
Standard? Luke got his hand chopped off by the bad guy at that point in his story arc/training, and was taking cover from blaster fire. Luke was lucky in Episode V, not skilled. Vader had the upper hand the entire fight, and he knew it. Vader was going easy on Luke. Luke wasn't a one man army until Episode III.
Rey had a lot more combat training than Luke going into her first movie.
And I said "standard", not that Star Wars had specifically done that exact same thing before.
Young man without any training being called into adventure and within days/weeks going toe-to-toe with the toughest baddie is like one of the oldest tropes in SF/Fantasy.
And though Luke knew how to fly, that didn't make him the best pilot. He was a likely a better shot than Wedge or Biggs with all his practice against Womp rats. That is why they put him leading the approach in IV.
Rey was skilled with her staff combat, not lightsaber combat. She should have situational awareness, but she shouldn't have been so capable with a lightsaber. Kylo Ren had more training under Luke than Rey had at that point, and should have kept up his training, especially with the threat of Luke still out there. There isn't enough of a sense of a passing of time for Rey's training to be as extensive as Luke's. She's not only naturally better than her peers, she's magically better than everybody else, and from previous films "That's not how the force works!".
So flying a hovercraft in the desert and shooting little animals translating into being a great space plane pilot, and probably the best shot in a space plane. Totally realistic.
But translating skills from fighting with a staff to fighting with a glowing sword. Total BS!!
I stole this Sig
It isn't coded language for anything of the sort. It refers to far-left, Marxist, intersectionality-based identity politics. Which is a rather different, and quite unpleasant, beast.
Darth Maul bad was not
Funny you say that. When I watched The Phantom Menace I found Darth Maul as an utterly forgettable character. He appears, do mean stuff, kills one of the good guys and gets killed, all the while uttering maybe 3 words. I felt he was the very definition of one-dimensional character writing: no story, no motivation, no nothing, brutal just because and evil for evil's sake.
That's what I remember of him, at least. But I'd like to know what you saw in him that made you like the character.
Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
It's funny, they finally gave some payoff to the stuff about Leia being force sensitive and people hated the idea. And somehow they think a woman with purple hair who was a bit mean to one of the new guys ruining the franchise, after they gave us Jar Jar and midichlorions.
Why do people take Star Wars lore so seriously anyway? They were kids movies, where a bunch of midgets in bear costumes defeated the Imperial Army and no-one noticed the extremely obvious flaw in their planet-killer that the rebels spotted pretty much instantly just from the schematics. Not to mention the Kessel run that Solo tried to explain away.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Ray is a Mary Sue but Luke is fine? First thing she does is crash a ship into the ground and try to run away from the Force. Luke goes from farming moisture and whining, never having been off-world, to piloting a military spacecraft and taking out the Death Star using the Force, even though Vader is trying to stop him at the time.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Finn's redemption was where Rose helped him see the Rebel cause as worthy and then just as he kicks Phasma's arse he proudly identifies himself as "rebel scum". He went from just trying to get away and only an accidental hero to an actual hero fighting for what's right and what he believes in.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The flaw in that argument is Kylo Ren, who used Ray to help him murder Snoke and become supreme ruler of the galaxy. He went from worshipping Vader and wanting to emulate him to surpassing his achievements, and Ray was both used as a tool to that end and unable to stop him doing it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Luke faces Vader and gets his ass kicked despite some training from Yoda. Rei has no training in anything but can fly the Falcon without any pilot training, manages to escape captivity using the Force and easily beats a well-trained Force user despite never having wielded a lightsaber. But not a Mary Sue oh no.
Counter example: Wonder Woman. By far the best DC movie of the modern era, and directed by an sjw and lacking any gratuitous shots of Gal Gadot's arse. Justice League was directed by Zak and did feature many shots of her arse, and was all the worse for both those things.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'd love to hear how they could have kept Luke the same as in the original films, explain the time gap, and make him not suck like CGI Yoda did when doing action scenes.
That would probably have been a pretty boring film.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Rogue One was pretty good. The pissed-off Vader murder spree at the end was cool as fuck
It was fan service and nothing more. It also didn't make up for the horrible plotting of the film.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
I'm not turning a blind eye to anything. I just don't care. They are free to make their movie any way they want. What I do care about are babies trying to bully people into making art into what THEY want. Nah, fuck all that. You have only two choices when it comes to media and entertainment. Buy it or don't buy it.
Try making some sense next time.
None of that makes for a bad movie.
How about being highly forgettable? The opposite of love is not hate but indifference. I did not hate the film I just found it so bland and generic that I can only vaguely remember what happened in it.
usly, you mistake not likeing something with being threatened by it.
Not really. I specifically said that the movie sucked in it's own right. But then knuckle draggers just HAD to insert the SJW angle. Which means that they have their own agenda to address that has nothing to do with the quality of the movie. These same people would have trashed Empire if they made Han be a bit more respectful to Leia when he was coming onto her.
...but I really liked Solo. I finally caught it on VOD and I didn't get all the hate at all. I found it to be mostly entertaining and decently written/directed/acted. I say this as a man who's seen every SW movie on opening day (except ANH, which I saw opening week as a 7 year old). I just didn't get why people hated it so much.
There is nothing left to be seen there.
I don't disagree; I was simply replying to the comment "The special effects of the original SW movies are vastly superior to current special effects".
SJW is a cop out. Their are far more degenerate films out their that are not only artistically sound and enjoyable but far better mediums for spreading propaganda. While it is often stated that the Left cannot meme, meaning in this context that they cannot be enjoyable or funny, it is undeniable that they used to be able to at the very least.
The core reason the new Star Wars are so bad is not that the writers/directors hate all ideas that differ from their own. I would argue that it is not even at its core because they are bad at their jobs, even though they clearly are. They are horrible films because the writers and directors hated Star Wars. I would argue their is as much or more deconstruction of Star Wars as there was deconstruction of basic human morality.
And while many state the common sense idea that, when you put politics before story your story is going to suck, this is just not true. Some, if not all, great art is built about a certain philosophy, idea, symbol, or other restraint.
Just yesterday I watched a surprisingly interesting critical analysis* of the 1998 movie Pleasantville. Which while no masterpiece, is and was enjoyed by many and maintains a very good review score while being chuck full of 10 times the SJW propaganda of the entire new Star Wars series.
* The video is technically about a different topic that he uses Pleasantville to demonstrate. Skip to 7:25 to just get the Pleasantville deconstruction.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
It's explicitly stated in the movie that Ray has experience as a pilot, as well as being a mechanic.
She doesn't beat Kylo Ren. No idea where you got that idea from. Kylo has been shot already by the time they clash, and he isn't even trying to kill or badly injure her. He wants her to join him, remember. She manages to fend off his attacks until the planet breaks under them and the fight comes to an end.
At least watch the movie first.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The entire plot of the Last Jedi was complete trash and the attempt to turn Star Wars into an in-your-face cheese party was just lame. Worst was that the whole premise of the movie was a slow chase in starships with hyper drives. Somehow we have to believe that the empire had no ships that can catch the rebels, but yet, the rebels have time to go on an spring break trip to Monte Carlo and listen to the Most Eisley cover band. Also, why made the central drama something something as ridiculously stupid as Laura Dern pretending she's entirely incompetent and had no plan... even to get own officers.
You mean all the things that people noticed straight away and have been talking about and taking the piss out of for years. I doubt anyone will still be talking about or obsessing over TLJ in 40 years.
They need to make a new Episode VIII, and have Finn wake up in the medical bay and say "I had a this terrible dream", and go from there.
Imagine this: A strong male lead AND a strong female lead.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Both Star Wars and Star Trek have been 'Abramized'. Largely stripped of their unique identities and turned into more simplistic generic action oriented popcorn flicks appealing to millennials. Which is kind of ironic since they're both scifi templates in and of themselves. TFA was a simplified millennialized reboot of ANH combined with heavy SJW elements like a sudden in universe switch to gender balanced armies with no explanation, heavy 'checkboxing'; a technique where in every action scene the director bends over backward to include gender balanced shots, and a God tier Mary Sue. Of course New Star Wars was so hyped and anticipated however and the general population went to see it. By the time of TLJ, the hype had died down and people were noticing how shitty and generic these movies were. And then TLJ just doubled down on the shittiness and 'gender diverse characters means we don't have to write a good story' philosophy. Plus the crew made it abundantly obvious that they were politically and ideologically driven and this affected the story, in interviews and their social media. So there was a backlash. In response the cast and crew pulled the standard socjus PR movie of developing an antagonistic relationship with the fans which certainly didn't help things. Combined with the general shittiness, contempt, and oversaturation of the franchise its no wonder things are as they are. Say what you will about the prequels. They were shitty but at least they were shitty with more original stories and much less rabid agenda pushing behind them.
They just got fed up of all the bullshit being thrown at them, e.g. that they were trying to attack or destroy masculinity or promote white genocide. If you look at the few tweets being complained about in that context, they seem pretty reasonably.
Unfortunately outrage is a profitable industry.
The kitchen is hot. If you cannot handle the heat, There are cool places to chill axe.
It is sort of amusing. As I noted before, I recently retired from chairing a yearly event. A lot of passionate people with a lot of different ideas. And there were times I was called names, was called insane more than once, stupid pretty often.
When I retired from it, I got accolades and a very exceptional honor that only happened once before. What the hell? Didn't these people hate me?
No, they didn't. Well that's strange, amirite? It is pretty simple. I listened to them. You want to disarm someone who is calling you names? Send them a personal reply. Be nice. Listen to them and ask what their suggestions are. I always made it clear that I couldn't implement opposing suggestions, or that some suggestions harmed other parts of the event. I was respectful. If someone was being an asshole, I could ignore them, but usually didn't . If they got personal, they got one warning. And over the 18 years I was doing this, I only ever had to kick two people out.
People seem to think that top positions are all gravy, and that the interntoobs were the beginning of people taking crap. That's simply wrong. Putting on the grownup pants, treating people respectfully even if they don't treat you that way. Nah... that would never work would it?
This business of attacking people who are fans simply isn't going to work. Hollywood is turning racist and sexist, and it's racist and sexist people will attack you if you don't agree with them. I'll leave that here, and provide the citations if you like. because its not all on topic. So just like Republicans defendint Trickle down theiry or their denialism, there are a lot of standard memes trotted out to defend the reasons whay Solo or the all female Ghostbusters tanked, or why the reviews of Ocean's 8 weren't as great as the actresses demanded (spoiler, it was the fault of white male reviewers - I kid you not)
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'd love to hear how they could have kept Luke the same as in the original films, explain the time gap, and make him not suck like CGI Yoda did when doing action scenes.
That would probably have been a pretty boring film.
The point is that the Character wasn't Luke. It was weird old disillusioned homeless type guy.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Let's see...
1) Rey is the worst Mary Sue in a sci fi setting since Wesley Crusher.
Now, Star Wars had its share of powerful characters. Luke, Anakin/Vader, Palpatine, Dooku, Grievous... Some force sensitive, some not, but all of them very powerful in their own way. Rey is no exception to the power question. She, too, is a powerful character, strong with the force and all that, but with one critical flaw: Not having one. This character has no, absolutely no flaws. She pretty much trips over every plot device and can just so do whatever is necessary to succeed. Sorry, but how the fuck is this supposed to be interesting? Moreover, how am I supposed to be interested in this character or its survival? Storytelling is about conflict, external or internal, but neither exists with her. No external conflict, because whatever conflict there could be or could be built up is instantly resolved. And for an internal conflict, she'd first of all have to have some sort of internal dilemma. She doesn't. She's basically as blank as Anakin was in Ep1, with the difference that she's already at Jedi master levels with her force powers. How? Why?
What you have here is a Luke with Jedi powers akin to what he had in Ep6 but at the stage of Ep4. Which takes away one crucial problem he faced in Ep6, the internal struggle to not wanting to fight his father and turn to the dark side, but at the same time having to aid his friends on the moon below. All that doesn't exist for Rey. No struggle, no problem, no dilemma. What you have here is superman without kryptonite that could harm him and without a Louis Lane he needs to protect. There is literally nothing that makes this character remotely interesting or serves as any kind of story element she could be played off of.
2) Luke as a hermit on some godforsaken planet.
Less dramatic, but about as cliche as it gets. The ultimate hero retreats into obscurity after his failure to train another Jedi (does this sound familiar? I mean, that was already cliche when Obi Wan refused to train Luke), rejects any attempt to get him to train her until he sees the old holo of Leia. Aside of the question why the hell this should convince him to train Rey (oh, right, she's the Mary Sue who gets whatever she wants, forgot that bit), did we really need to be any MORE reminded of how this whole movie smells like it's trying to reboot of the original trilogy?
3) Finn
Why? Just why? Here we had a character that was built up to be interesting in the past movie. He was actually an interesting character, a nondescript soldier who was just a number that dared to defy orders and you could watch him grow and struggle through Ep7. In Ep8, he's basically turned into the comic relief character, some sort of Jar Jar, just less annoying. And I refuse to comment on that ridiculous code breaker side quest, what happened there, did the script grow too thin that they had to attach some sort of spy movie wannabe?
4) Holdo ... shit, that made me remember
She actually got my piss to a boil. No commander on a ship acting like this is commander for long. You DO NOT keep crucial plans from your officers. For good reason. Stuff that pink haired weirdo in an airlock and
5) Leia's space trip ... god knows where.
Not gonna comment on it. No later than here we left this reality and went
There's more. But that's already way more than enough to simply walk out of it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I think making a comparison to a restaurant is a little bit of a weird choice... yes they are making the movie for the audience.... but it's more of a piece of art than a made to order dinner. They had a vision and made a product. You don't get to go in and say... hmmm, 46 cast members. 10 can only be women, 14 have to be black, 7 have to be fish... You don't get to make those decisions.
Food is art. If I say that I don't want Parma in my salad, and they bring it out with Parma - and say I have to eat that - I won't be back. It's that simple. They can make the movie they want, I can make the decision to give them my money or not. That's the crux of this issue. If Kennedy et al don't make money, Disney won't be making many Star Wars movies. Simple math.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Try making some sense next time.
Claiming that the simple Inclusion of SJW invalidates someone's argument is like claiming a news report is fake because CNN reports it.
The longer I live, the more I understand that the far left and far right are more alike than they would ever admit.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I think many people don't realise that there is a significant number of Star Wars fans out there who don't care about the mystical Force and Jedi aspects to the universe - for us, Rogue One was amazing. It was a decent film that expanded the universe with only a touch of the magic McGuffin to detract - perfect.
Give us more!
The pod racers were one of the stupidest ideas in the history of film. The mechanics of the devices was beyond absurd.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Luke is an idiot-savant farm boy who matures over the course of 3 films. Seen in that light, his character is pretty consistent.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Can I just hold your beer for you, moron?
Luke was shown to have become essentially a homeless good for nothing bum.
When he gets his big fight with Darth Emo at the end, we find out that he didn't show up, he literally phoned it in, and it still killed him!
Luke is supposed to be the archetypal hero who never gives up. Disney gutted him.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
They are free to make their movie any way they want.
Of course they are, just as we're free to criticize the shit they delivered.
When the magnitude of Disney's failures with the SW franchise became obvious, did they hire some competent writers and try to do better? No! They did a full-court press in the media to disparage the fans. They have every right to do so of course, but they should expect to be called on it.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Midichlorians, nuff said.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
David Carradine would have done a better job, despite being dead.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
If you go back and watch the (retroactively named) episode IV it's impossible not to notice that the special effects are objectively poor by today's standards. Can't help thinking Flash Gordon.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
To use an analogy: It's kind of like saying that midi-chlorians ruined the prequels.
What's wrong with saying that? An emblematic example of the thousand cuts that undermined the canon and ruined the franchise.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
It's one of the thousand cuts, yes. But if you single that out as one of the main reasons, it does make a statement about one's priorities.
And those would be a focus on political BS in this case, I think. Something that has been plaguing and deteriorated the quality of this site for quite some time. I don't like that.
because he was just competent enough to finish the film on time and he didn't ask for much money? Now _that_ would kill a franchise alright...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Womp rats are not "little animals". Episode IV implies that they're about 2 meters long.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
I'd watch nothing but the Holiday Special for a week straight before I'd violate my eyes with any movie post RotJ even one more time. At least the Special was entertainingly awful. I never fail to laugh at Chewie's pops watching magic space porn.
Go to climactic scene of death star blowing up. Note unconvincing sparks. Go to Flash Gordon flying around in space ship. Note unconvincing sparks. In both cases it was something people hadn't seen before, so willing to overlook the flaws. Now we don't have that excuse, it just looks stupid.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Why not single it out? It shows how Lucas believed that every stupid idea he farted out was somehow sacred. Basically the entire story of how it deteriorated. The triumph of Hollywood screenwriter vanity.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Thats because 4, 5 and 6 has a plot in each movie on top of the overarching greater storyline. So you end up with 2 layers of storyline, that adds more depth to the movies as you watch them.
It also escalating things that is introduced in the first movie, and go further and further into its concepts.
Where Episode 1 really doesn't do anything but the overarching story, 2 need to have Clone Wars for the lore bulletpoint, and 3 needs to have Anakin turn and the Jedi dead. So 1-3 ends up having one storyline with a few good moments to make a good cinema series. Its a lot like watching a better TV series where you have a arc thats multiple episodes: But only with bigger budget, actual quality, good pre planning. And thats why it works, despite being a lot more sparse about its storyline for its runtime.
1-3 also have a less clear plot, so a summary would quickly turn into a bulletpoint over the trilogy:
1. The emperors storyline
2. Anakin story
3. Obiwan's story
The only discredit i have to 1-3 is that most of the good content ends up being shuffed into the Clone Wars series, where its actually allowed to play out in greater artistic detail. Where you suddenly have entire episodes dedicated to Politics, Sith sheenigans, space pirates, or Clone PTSD.
While i haven't gotten around to Solo yet, so far Rogue One has been the strongest movie StarWarsDisney has made.
While the plot is extremely simple(Lets steal the Death Star Plans), and it takes quite a bit of the movie before it goes anywhere(in terms of pacing), once it they end up on the Palm Beach planet the plot and action kicks into what is a good experience.
7 have a lot of things going on, but nothing pans out, so it doesn't become anything to write home about. Like by destroying the Starkiller planet they should have basically won the war, but then by the next installment the Rebels are suddenly on the ropes against the Last Order giga army.
8 tries to repeat Empire Strikes Back without doing anything to advance the plot, or do a story. And i would suspect that 9 is going to do exactly the same, maybe ending the 7-9 arc in some fashion.
So 7-9 is going to end with repeating the problems with 1-3, but its also going to copy what 4-6 did for its arcs without doing anything to have the some kind of progress.
Its going to end up a lot like a copycat film, where you take elements without understanding WHY or HOW they where applied to make the movie a commercial success.
It was a good movie, suck it up the men-only world you remember from your puberty days is gone. Maybe it's not the same old junk as the originals, or maybe you miss Ewoks and capes, but it's far and away better than the three "prequels".
Red Letter Media's criticism is remarkably apt. Rich Evans pointed out something regarding how limited the Star Wars universe is when he, Mike Stoklasa, and Jay Bauman reviewed "Rogue One" about 10m28s in:
RLM also shows scenes in the ad for "Rogue One" that aren't in the movie (I think there's good reason to call this fraudulent on Disney's part).
As Rich Evans has pointed out, "Star Wars has been creatively bankrupt since 1983." and I concur. Evans said he enjoyed "Solo" but I figure that's slim pickings overall. There's just too much junk for me to want to spend money with a business that treats us horribly on important policy issues (copyright term extension, for instance) and is too scared to do anything interesting with some newly-acquired brand. When I consider the Disney-managed Star Wars stuff as a whole, I'm not incentivized to pay them to see it nor would I choose to spend more of my time watching it.
I find RLM's commentary to be far more interesting than a number of the things they watch and I'd understand if they decided they were no longer going to watch more of certain series (Star Wars movies, Star Trek Discovery TV show, to name a couple examples).
Digital Citizen
To me, only the original move is really great. All the rest are chock full of major flaws. There really was no need to make the sequels except to cash in, and despite his claims to the contrary,it is clear that the first movie was originally intended to be standalone.
But despite being full of flaws the movies were somewhat fun (if you block out Jar-Jar). Last Jedi follows that same trajectory, not a work of astounding art like the first movie, but certainly better than the worst that came before. Yes, some parts are dumb, like the commander wearing an evening dress the whole time, but then Ewoks were even more stupid. So yah, they did the ice-planet thing before, but then they did the death star once before as well before trotting that out again.
At the end of the day though - it's just a frigging movie! Get over it!
There wasn't any agenda pushing shit, except from some fans who showed up expecting that their manhood would be besmirched. If you're bringing in politics when you go see a fluff movie then you need some perspective.
The first Star Wars was great. The sequels never measured up. You can like Star Wars while still disliking Empire Strikes Back, and you can also like the sequels without elevating them on a pedestal as well.
They're movies, just go and have some fun.
Ha, Darth Maul was deliberately a throw-away character, entirely forgettable except for his looks. I really expected to see him with more screen-time in the movie given how much hype there was about him before the premiere. Perhaps it was misdirection, getting the fans to think that he's the next Vader and ignoring the guy behind the curtain?
At the time, the effects were so much better than Flash Gordon. Amazingly better. And this despite the entire premise of the movie to be an homage to space opera. Not up to today's standards of course, but at least they didn't have god rays and an exploding ring.
He wasn't your impression of what Luke should be. That doesn't mean he wasn't Luke to some people. If you can't stand some characters in a set of movies not being the way you appear, then write your own fanfic instead.
Saying soyboy in an argument generally invalidates it, just like using SJW. By using those words you're just asking in code for the rest of your Iron Will book club to agree.
And in other film series you Universal's 'Dark Universe'.
They have published 1 okay movie and one terrible movie since 2014. In the same span MARVEL spat out 12 unique movies thats good.
In these movies, each scene thats a part of the 'larger narrative' is mostly terrible scenes which end up ruining the pacing of the movie. Instead of a exciting movie, the possibility of exciting scenes are 'delayed to the next movie' which never comes or delivers on its promise.
So what is going on the MARVEL side of the fence?
The MARVEL films makes money because each film is good.
But there is another benefit: Because of the MCU brand each successive movie basically gets free PR, meaning that each successive "good" movie will continue to cash in on the brand.
This has been tried before with Rocky, Highlander, Pokemon and several other franchises. Its a tried and true concept: People who enjoyed Highlander will watch Highlander II when it lands in theater, making it possible to increase or stabilize revenue.
But the difference between a movie series and MCU is that MCU is based on a franchise that already have the script for a few hundred good movies and storylines. So unlike traditional movie franchises you already have a red line to make several movies. Where movies are written per script, produced standalone, and sequels are made as standalone script with the artistic limitation of being made as a single product.
In the MCU, the framework to make all the movies is already there. The screen writers just have to decide what arc they are going with(Infinity Gauntlet) and then produce that arc, taking other arcs and making them into standalone movies to make the framework for the arc. So far the Infinity Gauntlet Arc has been 15 released movies out of 19 MCU movies.
And that is what makes the MCU into what it is. If you don't know about the source material or look over the list of featured films its not going to be obvious that this has been one large arc.
And i have trouble imaging standalone movies with standalone scripts doing Movie: Movie 19 and not have the wellspring or the structure of the script gone completely dry. Most series have problems making Movie: Movie 2 and even large problems making Movie: Movie 3
Added note: What is funny to me, is that on the movie side MCU is a success. While on the TV side its a disaster that lives purely of the fact MCU have had 19 movies and still more being produced.
On the TV side there has been 11 shows so far, some with enough audience to warrant more than one season. Each of them being produced episode by episode, script by script, with terrible arc progression, terrible budget and poor foresight/planning.
The TV side is EXACTLY what you describe, were its only working because its part of the MCU(despite being mostly terrible).
I think that Force Awakens and Last Jedi movies were phenomenal.
This must be some new meaning of "phenomenal" that is not in the dictionary.
Also, you don't know the original films very well.
Luke did not come off as a whiny, entitled baby. He was a hard-working country boy with a dream, to be a pilot. Between a sunrise and a sunset, he met a war hero and a member of a brutally destroyed legendary cult (Guinness); learned that his family was at the center of the most epic galactic story of his time; fell in love with a beautiful girl (Fisher), who was a hero and a princess (ah, that truly American obsession with royalty); and had his foster family, the closest people to him, destroyed by the person who killed his father.
Did he turn into a hero overnight? No. He chose the hero's way, but he remained relatable. He was a good pilot with some awareness of "the Force", but he did not become insta-Jedi by touching a light saber. He had to spend an episode and a half - an epoch in cinema - to become one. He was mocked by everyone, but his visions of his dead mentor. Solo laughed at him, Yoda mocked him, Vader told him, "you're not a Jedi yet", the mobster lizard dismissed his "mind tricks" and the evilest creature in that universe nearly killed him.
He faced real enemies and in number - he saved a princess only to have her fall for the other guy, fought a space battle or two, got nearly killed several times, spent a long time in exhausting Jedi training, had his hand cut off, and found out the girl he loves is his sister. Yet he did not despair. He won his battles, he learned the Jedi ways, he put on a glove and managed to do a trick no Jedi before him could - destroy the Dark Side couple, which in that universe is finding the Grail. In the end, he congratulated his sister and went on to party with two dead men and a dead lizard. Now, that's what I call a true, selfless hero.
What parts in the "phenomenal" sequel movies come even close to this epic journey? How did the sexless character of that Emma Watson wannabe became a "hero"? What "heroic" things did she accomplish that compare to the story of Skywalker? And what's the story of her getting there? Remind me, for I can't recall, those movies were that bad.
Like I said, you claim to take the movies "at face value", but it appears you don't know their faces very well. If at all.
Yep. I always ask fans of the later movies to compare one scene - the dancing girl fed to the monster - in the original and the re-Lucased versions of the RotJ. Most people who watch them side by side understand immediately why the original trilogy was such a success, and why everything else was meh.
They're both action flicks about what are basically warring kingdoms involving swords, sorcery and skimpily clad women.
There are two differences. One of them involved the level of gore.
The other might attract a much larger fanbase but would certainly get a massive boardroom rebellion, not to mention a mass boycott of merchandise.
The original movie had broader appeal. It was part Eastern-style mystical, part western, part sci-fi, part World War 2 (George Lucas borrowed heavily from Dambusters and 633 Squadron).
That's a very broad audience.
The Last Jedi appealed to... Whom? It wasn't aimed at any of those target audiences and was generally a crap script.
So superior scripts, messier battles and an all-round appeal might rescue the franchise. But I'd recommend replacing LOJ entirely. It disrupts the flow.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
What, they can't ever make a movie about Queen Aethelflaed, Lady of Mercia? Queen Boudicca?
I'm pretty sure the last one was done and was considered damn good.
Know many schoolgirls who aspire to be hung over a bannister rail then dropped, possibly killing them?
Probably not. Didn't affect Still Trinian's revival movie or impact music sales.
We are the best, so screw the rest
We do as we damn well please
Ok, maybe I can see some aspiring to that. Same group that aspired to be Boudicca, I expect.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I agree, the 7-9 movies aren't introducing anything new so far, it's more or less a reiteration of 4-6 so far.
What makes them worse is the stressed pace and action without afterthought. Almost all is fighting and other action, little is thrill, mystery and reflection. Throw away a number of unnecessary scenes like those bounty hunters that are chasing Han Solo - they are just a waste of time in the movie and give more moments of what we have seen in Sergio Leone or Hitchcock movies.
When Kylo Ren dropped the mask it threw away the mystery and made him look like a spoiled brat. It was also too quickly revealed who he was. And Hux - what a farce character... They should have used Kevin Spacey instead, then at least there would have been something to be scared about - watch your butt if nothing else.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Its a chariot race, but in SPACE!!!
The engines are horses, and the pod is the chariot. I wouldn't call it the worst idea. It fits Star Wars if not much else. "Science Fantasy", kinda of like Steam Punk. Its not meant to be realistic, its meant to be cool but thematic. Laser swords man, laser swords.
I thought the notion that Star Wars was sacred was why he sold it. He couldn't enjoy making movies in that universe because fanbois pitched a fit.
Qui-Gon was actually kind of an interesting character if you read between the lines a bit, in the sense that he's supposedly one of the "good guys" and a light-side user of the Force. But he uses the Force it to appropriate a transport from the Gungans, attempts, and hilariously fails, to use the Force to cheat Watto by making him accept Imperial credits, then later successfully uses the Force to throw a dice game in his favor to cheat Watto in order to free Anakin (arguably this one can be justified, though it does bring up the question of why free Anakin and not his mother which muddies it up a bit).
One of the things that makes the first movie so crappy is that it basically plays this straight when it could have pointed this out to the viewers to show that the Jedi order wasn't so sparklery clean and that rot had settled in, foreshadowing its fall in the later movies. Furthermore, it could have planted a seed in Anakin's head - that there are grey areas where it's still okay to use the Force so long as the end result is good - that could have helped explain his actions in the later movies that cause him to turn to the dark side.
Darth Maul really was a throw-away character, because the real bad guy, Palpatine, had to stay around to become the Emperor later. So they created Darth Maul just to have some one they can kill off at the end of the first movie. How/why he managed to show up later in the Solo movie is still a head scratcher though.
Fair point.
I'll find a better analogy.
So we've won on the Star Wars front, but will we be able to slow down those awful things known commonly as "Superhero Movies"? Only time will tell.
First thing she does is crash a ship into the ground and try to run away from the Force.
Falling over yourself doesn't not make you a Mary Sue. The Mary Sue trait comes out of the character development arc.
Luke goes from farming moisture and whining, never having been off-world, to piloting a military spacecraft and taking out the Death Star using the Force, even though Vader is trying to stop him at the time.
Indeed he does. He does so through the help of a mentor. He does so through a character progression arc which is incredibly basic. The finale of his powers in his first movie can be summed up as pushing something slightly one direction so it hits its target. He spends a good portion of the second film training. His first face to face with Darth Vader results in him getting his arse handed to him. More development more character building and off he goes to take on the emperor who hands his arse to him again.
Comparing this to magic girl in the desert who goes from "omg you're talking about the force right?" to using the force suggestion on her first try and then defeating the villain of the trilogy is either being blind, intentionally dense, or maybe you're just a huge Rei fanboi.
Luke's not a perfect character by any means, but seriously the way you talk I wonder if you've actually seen any of the movies.
She doesn't beat Kylo Ren.
Okay you clarified it for me. You're not dense or blind, but rather you haven't actually watched the movie.
She manages to fend off his attacks until the planet breaks under them
She fends of a very mobile and not the least bit injured Kylo attack for about 1 minute. Then Rei Mary Sues her way to becoming one with the force, goes on the offensive, injures Kylo, disarms him, and then cuts through a chunk of his shoulder. Kylo is saved by a Deus ex Machina (since we've already got a Mary Sue and a Mcguffin why not include more lazy writing right?) and spends the first part of the following movie in surgery recovering from his arse kicking.
Seriously man I know it's a bad movie but you should at least watch it to the end if you're going to join a discussion about it.
Luke does have experience with flying landspeeders. They cut that scene out of the re-release though (with Biggs on Tattooine). And his father was supposed to be an excellent pilot. While it's a little bit of a stretch to take that into flying an X-wing straight off, it's at least plausible.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. I was considering writing a long, thought out response to this, illuminating the points that I think contradict your statement. But somebody else has already done it. I highly recommend checking out Everything Great About The Last Jedi.
I also don't think the star wars franchise has been ruined. However, there's an incredibly loud, vocal minority that's doing their best to ruin it, at the moment. It's a story. It's not your story, it belongs to the authors, directors, actors, and studios that pour their time, money, blood, sweat and tears into making it. You're free to dislike what they do, and what they say, but nothing that happens now, or in the future, can change your love of the OT, unless you let it.
Ray was mentored too. Kylo was grooming her to be his partner, and deliberately demonstrated the power of the Force for her, in particular the mind trick.
These are all just standard copy/paste criticisms that don't align with the actual movie. This is a rather good debunking: https://youtu.be/4iqN68PejEc
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
So you went to the bathroom during the where Kylo kills Han (spoiler alert) and then gets shot by Chewie? That's why he was holding his side and bleeding during the fight with Finn and then Ray.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I think Eps. 1-3 are decent but could have been much better. They had storylines a good director could work with, but they were somewhat ruined by the wooden acting, the rather overdone CGI and the departure from the "feel" of the first 3 movies (something that Disney thankfully returned to), and the unhealthy doses of what the MST3K guys call "Lucas Stupid" of which Jar Jar is just one example. The first movies also did a much better job of drawing in the audience, where Eps. 1-3 throw an endless stream of outlandishly extreme worlds and creatures at the viewer.
The latest movies (Eps. 7 and 8) however couldn't have been rescued without a major rewrite. The story is just a mess and the characters are almost all uninteresting and rather forgetable. I did rather like Rogue One.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Waaaaaah stop liking things I don't like
- triggered Slashdot moderator
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You're not seriously defending Star Wars physics are you?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
He wasn't your impression of what Luke should be. That doesn't mean he wasn't Luke to some people. If you can't stand some characters in a set of movies not being the way you appear, then write your own fanfic instead.
Your response at least is more civil than the people who destroyed Star Wars. But you are still having a little trouble getting it.
The primary purpose of entertainment is giving people a product that they enjoy and enticing them to open their wallets. Art is great, but especially the costs of making a movie are huge.
Now Star Wars is a product that is essentially a cowboy movie in space. It has been wildly successful, with fans going to it's movies several times, and spending incredible amounts on memorabilia conventions, and other products.
And the fans looked upon Luke Skywalker as a demigod. In a normal Star Wars Movie, if it was time to kill off SkyWalker, he sould go out in a blaze of glory, not as some homeless-looking weirdo character. Formulaic? You bet. But then what movie genre doesn't make it's product according to some formula?
All I can say is how I know a lot of corporations handle criticism, especially when they get the criticism from their paying customers. They listen.
But Kennedy, Johnson and Abrams refused to take telling. Even from people on the inside. Like Hamill himself.
As noted before any group I've been involved with took the criticism and analyzed it. And sometimes there was good valid criticism. I'venever been involved with a group that responds to criticism by attacking the people who criticized them. That's because it doesn't work, and smart people understand that.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The hero's journey is more about the reluctance to see the gift within. The fact that things "just work out" for them is actually part of the journey that helps prove their potential to themselves despite their own internal struggles and feelings of inadequacy (which most of us norms can identify with).
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Why even bother building a fleet when you can just warp through objects to destroy them? Now I have to assume nobody knew you could destroy the armada by just building large ships and auto-piloting them through the enemy while jumping.
If a single space ship battle happens in the next movie where it isn't a just race to kamikaze, it'll just look like complete ineptitude by all commanders involved.
How do you get out of this huge scientific (magic) discovery?
Ray was mentored too.
Fucking LOL. Let me quote myself from my other thread back at you: "Seriously man I know it's a bad movie but you should at least watch it "
Oh no I saw that bit. What you didn't see was the off camera scene where Kylo was completely treated and healed to the point where he shows absolutely zero impairment and is able to function perfectly fine.
You're right about one thing. I didn't see him holding his side during his fight with Finn. What I did see him is physically overpower Finn with brute strength. What I also saw was him force pull the light saber only for this master of the dark side to be outclassed in the use of the force by Mary Sue who ends up with it in her hand. What I saw was then fight between equals, one who has studied the art of the force his lifetime and the other ... well it's Mary Sue, one who pulls a an even more Mary Sueish "believe in the force" bullshit out of her arse and then somehow starts beating down this dark warrior strong with the force (actual wikipedia description of Kylo Ren, compared to Mary Sue's formal description: scavenger).
You are right about one thing there is a moment when Kylo is holding his side. It's after good old Mary betters him in a light saber battle and cuts him. It's at the 3:44 minute movie if you want to see for yourself how supposedly horribly injured your mate is after that debilitating shot by Chewie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Dude you can pretend all you want but you can't handwave this shit away. Mary Rey says QUITE CLEARLY in TFA she had NEVAR flown a ship of ANY kind, yet her very first time in the cockpit she not only trivially outflies trained TIE fighter pilots with years of exp she actually REPAIRS a ship she has never fucking been on when the GUY THAT FLEW IT FOR 30 YEARS doesn't know how!
I'm sorry but both TFA and TLJ are so filled with "its a wamen so therefor perfect" its pathetic. Mary Rey is perfect at everything the first time she tries, is able to defeat trained Sith the very first time she uses a lightsaber (Luke got his ass royally kicked by Vader in Empire and he had lightsaber training, she did not), Admiral Gender Studies is treated as a big hero despite killing more rebels than Hux (Even if you buy the fuel bullshit she could have used one of the ships about to run out of gas to do the exact same shit she ended up doing BEFORE so many got killed) and Leia becomes Mary Poppins despite never being shown to have done shit with the force.
Meanwhile not a single white guy is allowed to be anything but pathetic or evil, Han is a deadbeat dad, Luke is a tit sucking broken loser, Hux is shown to be incompetent, and if that wasn't bad enough even the non white males are made into buffoons because in the Oppression Olympics being male trumps being black or latino as Finn is made into a comic relief sidekick and Poe makes crank phone calls.
BTW two of my favorite films are Terminator II and Aliens, both of which star strong females. But unlike today where "you cannot allow them to be less than goddesses cuz wamens" Ripley and Sarah Conner were allowed to have actual story arcs, they could (and did) get their asses kicked, faced real adversity,and were able to overcome, with this? Like I said they wouldn't even let Phasma actually use her staff and kick some ass because that would have meant someone would have to raise a hand to a wamen. Don't believe me? Go back and watch TFA and TLJ and watch VERY closely at each fight with Rey, how many times does someone actually strike her? Oh that is right NONE, not a single kick, not a single punch or back hand, Kylo knocks her out using Force powers and every fight its stick on stick or saber, not once does anyone actually strike her or hit her with an object. You see you can't do that in an SJW movie cuz wamnens are delicate goddesses that must be protected.
So keep sticking your fingers in your ears and making excuses but looking at the comments here and pretty much over the entire Internet? Nobody that isn't hardcore left wing is gonna buy your bullshit because just like Ghostbusters 2016 the entire film was pushing the politics.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I saw every one of the movies in first release, and I never saw Luke as a demigod.
I really liked Rogue One as well. But there are some I think who are stuck in the mindset that anything not by Lucas must be terrible.
Darth Maul is the Prequel's version of Boba Fett, he became so popular they needed to keep him around for merch reasons.
Yah, sorry, missed your original meaning. The death star explosion also looks like crap to my eyes, and a hearty FU to physics.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I saw every one of the movies in first release, and I never saw Luke as a demigod.
So you're saying that your one datapoint rules them all?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
But what was worse was the response to the film. If any of the companies I worked for had responded that way, we would of been out of business, period. No one would tolerate that kind of response.
Just as a semi-related example, I was watching a vid on Youtube last night. A Trekkie was explaining all of the things wrong with NCC 1701D Enterprise.
Did he hate Star Trek? Not even, he loves it.
A complaint is a gift. The problem is when the people who complain stop after taking abuse. BTW, The Star Trek people didn't call him names. I suspect they watched the vid, and maybe did a facepalm or two.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'm waiting for you. Feel free to knock on my door and I'll show you how tough you really are.
Looks like I won the argument actually.
I honestly don't care about a strong male or female lead. I only care about an engaging and well written story. The Last Jedi was neither of those. But they could have written a story where all the women have subjugated all the men in the galaxy (or visa versa) and I would have enjoyed it if it were well written and engaging.
I don't really care about actual strength either, but it annoys me when one protagonist, be it male or female, only gets to show the fact that they're strong (physically, emotionally, mentally, whatever) as opposed to the OTHER protagonists instead of by being better than the antagonist.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
I've seen every Star Wars film (except Solo), and most of them many times. Yet, for the life of me, I can only describe the plot of the original trilogy.
That's because they are the only ones with a plot. The prequels were just to set up the originals and these last ones are a joke by people who think vfx is a good enough substitute for plot and structure.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
What? Rey has no "hero's journey". Everything she touches magically works. No effort. No consequences. She's a badly built character.
I like the way she gets into a ship she's never flown before and within minutes is pulling off one of the most impressive piloting moves ever seen in universe.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
First thing she does is crash a ship into the ground and try to run away from the Force.
And then she pulls off some mid air stall that lines up the turret with a small fighter behind her before restarting the engines and blasting away with feet to spare in probably the most impressive piece of flying seen in any star wars film, in a ship she's never flown of a class she's never flown and then starts telling han solo later on how to fix the fucking thing. Yeah, real progression she shows. It takes luke a whole film and massive support network to get there. It takes Mary Rey 5 fucking minutes.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
But I'd like to know what you saw in him that made you like the character.
Probably the horns and kickass double saber thing.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
That's it! That's the whole fu..ing point! Leila was a wonderful woman and a badass warrior in all the movies from the original trilogy. Disney should had stick to a Leila like character instead of a blue air idiot or an unexpressive broomstick.
And then disney took a massive shit all over her legacy at the same time as holding her up as some kind of shining example. The treatment of Leia in the new star wars is fucking scandalous.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Rian Johnson was more concerned with subverting expectation than he was in writing a good story. He certainly did put some nails in the Star Wars coffin.
He certainly succeeded there. We were all expecting a good film, and this is not what we got.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Go QQ some more, SJW soy boy. Time and time again, it's proven that anything the leftists touch just turns to shit. Nobody likes your poison politics, stop trying to shove them down other people's throats. But you never learn. You're dense. You're arrogant. You're stupid.
When did they touch you?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Unfortunately that isn't possible anymore since Disney in their ineffable brilliance declared all of EU non-canon.
That's how the Force is supposed to work. Anakin was the same, little kid gets in a space fighter for the first time, flies it up the enemy base and takes it out. Luke was pretty much the same too, made an extremely difficult shot that even the computer couldn't do manually.
It's entirely consistent and relatively minor compared to the achievements of the Skywalkers.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
100 is, by definition, the average value. So no, it's not "low, low". It's average.
Well done.
Are you sure it was Wonder Woman, and not any other DC movie you watched? I have yet to find a person that can actually tell the superhero movies apart. I thought I was watching Captain America through half the movie.
PS. Wonder Woman was no better or worse than any of the other movies, SJW or whatever. Same boring formula, you can predict with 100% certainty how it will end after 7 minutes of watching, and it's 80% explosions and pointless fisticuffs.
Hmmmmm, maybe. Could also be that she's not really flying at that point either ( https://youtu.be/e2Wm5tuTllk?t... ). The force was never meant to be some deus ex machina though that will just make things happen just because. Who's to say Luke didn't use the force to physically (forcially?) push the torpedoes down the hole? They do seem to make a pretty unnatural turn. Anakin was said to be extremely gifted and all that but he never just knew how to do things, he'd been pod racing for a while and knew how to fly and if I recall he's on autopilot til he gets there, he does get lucky sure but doesn't do anything really out there, he thinks a roll is a good move.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
That seems like way too much work. Easier to just type out a lable that says "stronk womyn" and put that on the forehead (or in this case, hair) of the relevant actresses.
That's some pretty wild speculation just to prove that Ray is more of a Mary Sue than the other two.
The reality is that basically every argument made about her being a Mary Sue is either contradicted by events in the movie or Luke was worse. No one can come up with a single example that is clearly ridiculous, even with two entire movies to draw from.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You can't tell Gal Gadot and Chris Evans apart?!
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
That video more about han but it's just a side note. She blatantly is though. She flies the ship straight out like a pro, she does the force mind control before she even knows its a thing, she goes toe to toe with kylo and doesn't even really lose. That's just the big ones from the first film. She never really suffers any setbacks, especially ones from her own weakness, she doesn't have any real hurdles to overcome. She just achieves everything. Now you may argue shes had all this training off screen or whatever but its never mentioned apart from the one little bit with luke who only wants to show her enough to see his point of view (plus he apparently skips a lesson). She has essentially the same start and endpoint as luke and anakin but none of the journey.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Like many posters, I'll agree that the spin-offs both Rogue One and Solo were better than the sequels, and I think there is a lot of reason why.
1) First off is the stories. What Rogue One and Solo did was take bits of the original movies that were never really explained, but hinted at and basically made a movie about it. How were the DeathStar plans stolen, and why did so many Boffins die? Ok, we could have seen more Boffin death... How did Solo with the Falcon in a card game, and how did he meet and save Chewie's life? My only gripe with that movie was the lover that seemed to sacrifice herself for very little reason. These were things fans were already interested in, so it instantly has appeal. The sequels on the other hand were just fan service and pandering and basically reboots of the exact same stories already told. Ermagah! A DeathStar, but this time it's really really big, oh and twist the bad guy is related again. What was the last one about again? Some sort of returning jedi or something?
2) Technical Science Fiction gaffs that once you do them, hard to come back from. The new Star Treks are guilty of the same BS. Both universes have an existing rich and explored cannon of how physics and various stuff works. What the new produces of both don't seem to understand (or don't care), is that there is a lot of reasons for putting limits on things for the purpose of story telling. It's like if they made a new Superman and decided "you know what, he is more badass than ever, and is no longer weakened by kryptonite!"... Which would be incredibly stupid, because it is there for a reason, as in where the hell do you go from there in future movies etc... So the super teleporters in Star Trek... Why even bother with ships anymore? There was so much of this in the StarWars sequels, it's no doubt they need to have a "pause" and try to figure how the hell to dig themselves out of this mess without just doing a complete re-boot. From Ray basically being some sort of innate super jedi, to FTL weapons technology, space bombers and how gravity works, planet sized DeathStars and Star power, etc... Stupid plot holes like General purple hair going down with the ship again for seemingingly zero reason (I mean they don't have auto pilot? They seem to have a lot of droids hanging around doing nothing, they too busy or something?)
Anyway I'm sure there is a bunch more reasons, but I've complained enough for today. I'm sure the StarWars universe has plenty of life left into it, however they do need to get some new writing blood it seems. Draft up some original stuff, heck there is plenty of written content out there to steal from, I'm sure plenty of folks would love to see the General Thrawn trilogy made!
She flies the ship straight out like a pro, she does the force mind control before she even knows its a thing, she goes toe to toe with kylo and doesn't even really lose.
But none of those things are true, are they?
She crashes the ship into the ground and then into a bunch of other stuff. She has the force mind control demonstrated by Kylo when he uses it on her for interrogation. Remember that Anakin was able to use the Force without any training at all, not to mention the implausibility of a 9 year old pod racer. How did he even get that job?
Finally, she fought an already injured Kylo Ren (shot with Chewie's crossbow that sends people flying across the battlefield) who wasn't even trying to kill her, he was trying to recruit her.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
She's not only naturally better than her peers, she's magically better than everybody else, and from previous films "That's not how the force works!".
Did you notice that title, "The Force Awakens"? The Force itself is asserting sentience, and acting through Rey.
The deal about "how the Force works" has been altered. It is the filmmakers' prerogative to alter it further.
It's not as easy as you think.
Tell me, which movie am I talking about here?
1. The plot begins in an early 20th century city against the backdrop of the war effort.
2. The hero isn't allowed to join the war effort, but tries to by sneaking around.
3. The hero joins the war, and proves themselves in it by completing task after task,eventually forming an elite unit fighting on the front lines.
4. The evil bad guy is using the war as a front for his own nefarious purposes, and doesn't care at all about who wins.
5. The hero uses a gimmick to fight.
6. The hero has a love interest, but alas that love isn't to be.
7. The main man in the movie disappears by averting a terrible disaster in the form of an airplane.
8. The hero has boobs comparable to a well-trained man.
9. The evil bad guy can be reduced to "hello, I'm the evil bad guy. I love being evil and bad."
10. The hero has a personality that would make cardboard seem 4-dimensional and unpredictable.
11. The hero has a support team of "wacky" and "endearing" characters with strongly expressed quirks.
12. The movie had an open ending, setting up for sequels.
13. A considerable part of the movie is set on the front-lines.
14. The hero wears a dark, gritty version of a spandex unitard.
See, it's tricky. Unless I mention hair color or overall quality of the ass, they are the same.
It's been a while but when exactly did Anakin use the force before being trained? Unless you mean his technical gifts like being able to built c3p0 or whatever or his piloting ability which is a fair argument to make I guess but he doesn't just have the ability to do these things off the bat, it's a passive stats buff to int. He was putting stuff together since he was a baby and probably started driving stuff as soon as he was able. Mummy probably wasnt a helicopter parent, what with being a slave and all. Child care probably leaves a lot to be desired in that area, in addition to being a slave himself. He got the job by being child slave with a demonstrated ability to do that stuff. They say about how much better he has got so even though you don't get a montage of it its alluded that it is a skill he has actively developed. I doubt that planet had much in the way of child safety laws and if that alien boss guy sees it as profitable then hes going to make anakin race because he is his slave. He didn't even want to let him race if i recall and qui gon had to force the dice. If anakin could have done that he probably would have by now and be the richest mofo in the joint clearing out gambling dens with his mum with some kind of hustle.
It's cool if you like Rey, no one wants to take that away from you but you have to see from a technical, objective viewpoint she is a poorly developed, bad character. Subjectively, she can be whatever you want.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
LOL! You are scrawny as shit. I would snap you in half like a twig, little faggot.
It's been a while but when exactly did Anakin use the force before being trained?
He was a great pod racer before the Jedi arrived. They diagnosed his pod racing ability as using the Force to see things before they happened, and to control the pod as I recall.
Mummy probably wasnt a helicopter parent
Mummy was a slave who seemed remarkably relaxed about her only child participating in that extremely dangerous sport, which was supposed to be beyond the ability of humans. Oh, and she claimed it was a virgin birth too, the Force got her pregnant somehow.
from a technical, objective viewpoint she is a poorly developed, bad character
Compared to Anakin and Luke? In fact compared to the average Hollywood movie character?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Yeah so it's a passive thing that's making him better than he should otherwise be rather than him 'using' the force in a more active sense. He's using the actual controls and engines combined with his enhanced intuition or whatever not using the force to move the pod racer beyond its capabilities while he sees the future and plans around it. Ok, I'll give you that is more similar to Rey's Millenium Falcon antics, but remember, she's never flown that ship before, as far as I'm aware she's never flown anything other than the hovercar thingies they have, she day dreams of it and then is all of a sudden able to do it and not only that but do it well. It's not just that one instance though, it's a combination of a lot of things.
The less said about the being conceived by the force thing the better, but mummy dearest didn't really get even 3/5 of a say in anything.
Compared to any characters that are considered good. All those arguments have been made a million times though and there's no point going over them again.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Right before they get into the Falcon Finn says to her that they need a pilot, and Ray replies that they have one, i.e. her. So it is established that she does at least know the basics, which is not unsurprising for someone in her profession.
And again, she doesn't exactly fly it well. The first thing she does is crash it into the ground.
For some reason people seem to forget all these details.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Well, she kinda bumps and scrapes it on the ground for a bit after taking off in a craft that hasn't flown in how long? With a pilot who has never flown it, almost definitely never flown anything as big as that, while under fire so you're going to expect a graceful take off but she goes from that, to skimming the ground a little bit once more to loops and the infamous stall flip and go. Which you see her thinking about, she knows exactly what she wants to do and apparently how to do it, she warns finn to get ready and then it happens, ignoring she has zero way to know where that gun is pointing, you could say that bit was a passive force move but the maneuver itself most definitely wasn't. This isn't the basics. This isn't the force guiding her shit, this is active planning, knowledge and ability. And thats ignoring the rest of the bits when shes not even looking where shes going flying at high speed on the deck among debris because you can just put that down to green screen acting.
Watch it for yourself again. The progression is lightning fast and doesn't stop there https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Then they just happen to meet han and chewie in orbit. The whole film is full of bad writing linking one disjointed bit to the next without any real care or attention, it's not just Rey. They then cover it up with frankly fantastic visuals and effects, because it does look amazing. The VFX and SFX people really put the money in on those films. The writers barely even bothered.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
I assumed the chance meeting was some Force nonsense at work. Like the number of ridiculous coincidences in the original trilogy, especially ANH before the ret-con in Empire.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'd love to hear how they could have kept Luke the same as in the original films, explain the time gap, and make him not suck like CGI Yoda did when doing action scenes.
Simple. Give the movie a time-jump with an extended era of peace. You could then weave in multiple plots from multiple books, ranging from the Thrawn trilogy and attempt to restart the empire to Han and Leia's kids becoming force users and being targeted by the empire and resurrected emperor.
Then tidy it all up by creating either animated/live action TV mini-series, or staggered movie releases dealing with each plot line.
Om, nomnomnom...
So...what's wrong with that again? Strange how I didn't hear many people complaining about the film adaptions of LotR or The Hobbit. The only ones who really did were people who'd hoped that more 'loreish' characters would be included like Tom Bombadil. Original stories weren't the way to go, otherwise Disney wouldn't be panicking like hell that they've managed to destroy a franchise and piss off the hardcore fan base.
Om, nomnomnom...
By the way Mashiki, you are back on the shit list of people I'm not engaging with until you stop using your sock puppets. You had your chance to play fair and you demonstrated that you prefer your little pyrrhic victories.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC