Apple's Security Expert Joined the ACLU To Tackle 'Authoritarian Fever' (vice.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Apple security expert Jon Callas, who helped build protection for billions of computers and smartphones against criminal hackers and government surveillance, is now taking on government and corporate spying in the policy realm. Jon Callas is an elder statesman in the world of computer security and cryptography. He's been a vanguard in developing security for mobile communications and email as chief technology officer and co-founder of PGP Corporation -- which created Pretty Good Privacy, the first widely available commercial encryption software -- and serving the same roles at Silent Circle and Blackphone, touted as the world's most secure Android phone.

As a security architect and analyst for Apple computers -- he served three stints with the tech giant in 1995-1997, 2009-2011, and 2016-2018 -- he has played an integral role in helping to develop and assess security for the Mac and iOS operating systems and various components before their release to the public. His last stretch there as manager of a Red Team (red teams hack systems to expose and fix their vulnerabilities) began just after the FBI tried to force the tech giant to undermine security it had spent years developing for its phones to break into an iPhone belonging to one of the San Bernardino shooters. But after realizing there's a limit to the privacy and surveillance issues technology companies can address, Callas decided to tackle the issues from the policy side, accepting a two-year position as senior technology fellow for the American Civil Liberties Union. Callas spoke to Motherboard about government backdoors, the need for tech expertise in policymaking, and what he considers the biggest challenge for the security industry.

Comments

Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

Too late.

Re:Too little.

[msmash (TechXpert)]

Exactly, we need STOP Authorititaritan TRUMP in his trax. With Hillary there would have been hope for U.S.A and rest of world but now we have blood test on side of the road, TSA harass people, white cops beating and murdering innocent black children, and the list goes on. Racist TRUMP all for this, I am confused and startled how any real man could be for this. But the "orange man" is not a "real man" as he rape women and married a Russian, a trophy secretly present by Putin himself.

Re:Too little.

[BeauHD (3492052)]

Couldn't agree more. Here's one of my favorites from ACLU's Mark Potok on Authoritarianism:

Well, presumably, he doesn’t condone open terrorist murder. But let’s remember, he had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the microphone today to finally say something about white supremacy. Let’s remember, too, that, you know, one of his chief advisers, Sebastian Gorka, his supposed adviser on terrorism, said just a few days ago, six days ago, in fact, that a recent bombing of a mosque in Minneapolis was very likely a fake hate crime. And went on to accuse the left, quote, unquote, of staging all kinds of fake hate crimes. He also went on to say that there had never been — never, ever been a major attack that was not connected to ISIS or Al Qaeda. And that is patently false. Of course, we had the attack on Saturday, we had the attack last year. Which Dylan roof in Charleston, South Carolina, and the list is very, very long. But this administration has resisted facing that reality, absolutely. Let’s remember, too, Donald TRUMP at one point was considering changing the countering violent extremism program, the cve program, to something that would have been called the countering Islamic terrorism program. In other words, the ideas there is no such thing as terrorism from the people who have so vociferously supported Donald TRUMP on the white nationalist right.

Re:Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, we need STOP Authorititaritan TRUMP in his trax. With Hillary there would have been hope for U.S.A and rest of world but now we have blood test on side of the road, TSA harass people, white cops beating and murdering innocent black children, and the list goes on. Racist TRUMP all for this, I am confused and startled how any real man could be for this. But the "orange man" is not a "real man" as he rape women and married a Russian, a trophy secretly present by Putin himself.

Hillary... LOL!

Re: Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. All too many incomplete tasks will take them all year working sixteen hour days six or seven days a week. Give em a break

Re:Too little.

[Z80a]

The corporate machine is coming, its churning, its eating everything, replacing man by machine, buying the end of the actual market so it can elevate into actual kingdoms, and then a man, an horrible man appeared, but the corporations told people to not vote on this man, the plastic face celebrities of the machine told people to not vote this man, so they voted this man in a hope it would break the machine somehow.
And you can't see it because the corporate machine is smearing your face with really shitty racial politics, it's the blacks, its the gays, its the whites, but when the machine arrive, no matter your color, it will crush you, equality will be reached by leveling everyone into a blood puddle on the ground.

Re:Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn its from it's so you can ramble more effectively, nazi coward.

Re:Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL talking to yourself about Trump? What a lonely fucking weirdo.

Re:Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

The corporate machine is coming, its churning, its eating everything, replacing man by machine, buying the end of the actual market so it can elevate into actual kingdoms, and then a man, an horrible man appeared, but the corporations told people to not vote on this man, the plastic face celebrities of the machine told people to not vote this man, so they voted this man in a hope it would break the machine somehow.
And you can't see it because the corporate machine is smearing your face with really shitty racial politics, it's the blacks, its the gays, its the whites, but when the machine arrive, no matter your color, it will crush you, equality will be reached by leveling everyone into a blood puddle on the ground.

*poodle

Re:Too little.

[Z80a]

Enjoy being property of Disney, they will give you a nice list of "nazis" to punch and you will obey like a dog.

Re:Too little.

[rickb928]

Let's parse this:

"Well, presumably, he doesn’t condone open terrorist murder."

- The audience can identify the logical errors in this sentence, and its intent.

"But let’s remember, he had to be dragged, kicking and screaming..."

- Ignore the hyperbole. Focus on the obvious opinionated characterization. And then ask if there i evidence of this, as in factual evidence. Fortunately politics is largely opinion. Sadly, much opinion is presented as factual.

"... to the microphone today to finally say something about white supremacy."

- Opinionated hyperbole? You can judge that for yourself.

"Let’s remember, too, that, you know, one of his chief advisers, Sebastian Gorka, his supposed adviser on terrorism, said just a few days ago, six days ago, in fact, that a recent bombing of a mosque in Minneapolis was very likely a fake hate crime."

- Actually, this bombing occurred in March 2018, and the quote attributed to Gorka, in August 2018: “There’s a great rule: All initial reports are false... alleged hate crimes that turned out to actually have been propagated by the left.” Gorka left the White House in August 2017, and may be advising Trump, but does so from outside the WH staff and is not in a known official role. I'm not sure why this quote is attributed to him as from six days ago, nor why the bombing is described as 'recent' when it's about 10 months ago.

"And went on to accuse the left, quote, unquote, of staging all kinds of fake hate crimes."

- There is evidence that this is true. From university professors faking racist graffiti to false claims of threats, it has happened.

"He also went on to say that there had never been — never, ever been a major attack that was not connected to ISIS or Al Qaeda."

- Hard to parse this. Do we go back to Oklahoma City?

"And that is patently false. Of course, we had the attack on Saturday, we had the attack last year. Which Dylan roof in Charleston, South Carolina, and the list is very, very long."

- The logic abuses here aren't so bad as to raise my pulse rate. Feh.

"But this administration has resisted facing that reality, absolutely."

- Not just opinion, but please, citations?

"Let’s remember, too, Donald TRUMP at one point was considering changing the countering violent extremism program, the cve program, to something that would have been called the countering Islamic terrorism program. In other words, the ideas there is no such thing as terrorism from the people who have so vociferously supported Donald TRUMP on the white nationalist right."

- Yes, please, citations. Ignore the attempt to link Trump and "the white nationalist right.", a group both infinitesimally small and without significant influence on the rest of the 'right'.

TDS is comforting, but it's not well grounded in reality. Fortunately for the practitioners, it need not be. It's just opinion.

Re:Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

Corporations, The ones being run by Zuck, Bezos, Berkshire. Nah, they love us!

Re:Too little.

[Shotgun]

but now we have blood test on side of the road, TSA harass people, white cops beating and murdering innocent black children, and the list goes on.

I'm old enough to remember that everything you listed was occurring while Obama was President. How again is it that you can blame our current President?

Re: Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are parsing the words of a known troll.

It seems you have TDS2.

Which is kinda like TDS, except it deals with the obsessive fascination of white knighting for a known liar. See Guilloani he has TDS2 as well.

"The tapes I saw had stuff."

"Did I say tapes? I didn't mean tapes, wrong word"

"I didn't see any tapes.

"I saw tapes before, but those tapes don't have anything to do with this"

LOL. Fucking morons.

Re: Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

Laugh now cry later.

Re: Too little.

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did he blame trump?

Get his cock out of your mouth. You trump supporters are worse than the trolls. Christ sakes.

Re: Too little.

[rickb928]

You can name a politician that hasn't or doesn't lie? You know better. And it doesn't matter about what or why. Pretending Trump is that much different isn't honest.

Re: Too little.

[Shotgun]

Where did he blame trump?

Go back. Read the first sentence.

Get his cock out of your mouth. You trump supporters are worse than the trolls. Christ sakes.

They're working on some medications for the that TDS. Just don't you worry. It'll be all right in time.

I knew I saved this link for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

I knew I kept a bookmark to this Twitter thread for a reason.

It's simply a list of the privacy debacles that have occurred under Apple's watch.

Since I know people won't bother reading the link (even though it's to Twitter, so it's not going to be that long) it includes things like Accuweather tracking Apple users' locations even with location services disabled, Uber's special exemption that let them spy on every app running on the phone, Apple uploading all your call logs and SMS messages to their servers without permission, and Apple allowing third party apps to upload your contacts to their servers without permission. And those are only some of the more recent privacy violations Apple has been caught either helping or allowing.

Re:I knew I saved this link for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

ok so apple screwed up sometimes, I don't think anyone who is remotely rational ever tried denying that

the difference between Apple and Google is that Google is in the business of selling your data

Re:I knew I saved this link for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

"developing for its phones to break into an iPhone belonging to one of the San Bernardino shooters"
Apple claimed they couldn't honor the court order to help the government access the phone contents they claimed it would it would be an excessive burden. They first denied they could get past the security at all. Then they pleaded poverty claiming it would cost to much money. and require an excessive amount of resources. It made for a nice marketing campaign. They then got kicked in the nuts by a 3rd party who gained access to the phone contents in under 3 days.

Apple used a dead terrorist to build their marketing campaign on. The owner of the phone had given the government permission to access the phone contents. Apple has given the Chinese government the ability to by pass the security measures on every iPhone and iPad sold in China. They valued access to the Chinese market much higher the user security. Sort of like Google building a search engine designed to make it easier for the Chinese government to monitor peoples internet activity.

Two of the richest corporations on the planet do not give two shits about security. If removing security features is required to enter the market they oblige.

Re: I knew I saved this link for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple ... isn't selling your data. They're leasing access to you instead.

Re:I knew I saved this link for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly this. apple had nothing to boast about over Android phones ( well except profits; but its hard to rally the cultists with a cry of MOAR PROFITS ) so when the shooter thing happened apple jumped on the security PR bandwagon. But with all things apple is lies and bullshit.

Re:I knew I saved this link for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly this. apple had nothing to boast about over Android phones ( well except profits; but its hard to rally the cultists with a cry of MOAR PROFITS ) so when the shooter thing happened apple jumped on the security PR bandwagon. But with all things apple is lies and bullshit.

I find it very amusing that the Apple iSheep, like us Android users, are ALSO being shaved... in addition to having to pay extertion prices for hardware and features that are atleast 4 years old at launch compared to Android phones... LOL

Atleast on Android we can customize our phones and usually have access to cutting edge tech and features at fair prices, if we exclude certain players like Samsung for example...

One problem on Android, is the amount of companies that make incredibly bad choices based on what Apple does

Re:I knew I saved this link for a reason

[Anonymous Coward]

I knew I kept a bookmark to this Twitter thread for a reason.

Yeah, because just like the author "Zuck Whitacker", you are owned by Zuck.

Re:I knew I saved this link for a reason

[rickb928]

"They then got kicked in the nuts by a 3rd party who gained access to the phone contents in under 3 days."

I'm betting that third party spend more than 3 days to develop that ability. And Apple also, but for Apple it was testing, not developing actual tools to do so.

And yes, that's probably wrong. Apple probably does have tools, just to be able to test improved encryption. They know that the current legal climate would force them to do it, despite the constitutional ambiguities, and then of course everyone everywhere would demand they do so for every offense, even overdue parking tickets and selling cigarettes on the street. They kill people for that, you know...

So...

[Pseudonym]

You can install non-Apple-approved apps on an iPhone, right?

Re:So...

[gl4ss]

if you pay 100 bucks / year and have the source then sure you can.

Re:So...

[tlhIngan]

if you pay 100 bucks / year and have the source then sure you can.

No, you don't need to pay $100/year. You just need a Mac. Since iOS 8 you can sideload apps you compiled yourself with XCode. (The SDK is free)

The $100/year is if you want to submit apps to the app store.

There's a nice repository of emulators and such for iOS these days. All open source because Apple requires you to compile the code yourself. No, RMS will not blow his head off that a proprietary OS has support for open-source.

More worried about Google/Facebook than the NSA

[Anonymous Coward]

- While the government can *theoretically* throw you in prison/Gitmo if it misinterprets your intercepted texts to Mom as coded threats to blow up the White House, the odds of it happening are infinitesimal and the procedure for doing so is long and tedious. In fact there's no example that I'm aware of of anything of the sort happening. The government can't do a single thing to you unless you have (or it thinks you have) explicitly committed a crime. Meanwhile tech companies can and eagerly will summarily and mercilessly financially ruin you and effectively banish you from human interaction if they simply don't like your opinions. While this isn't as bad as getting thrown in jail, the odds of it actually happening are infinitely greater, so the actual expected damage is higher.

- Government is at least theoretically hamstrung by the 1st/4th amendments, while big tech companies get to hide behind the "private company" excuse. (No the constitution isn't going to stop the government long-term, but it at least slows them down and puts them at a competitive disadvantage.) Also, as always massive bureaucracy makes the government slower/worse than the private sector at anything it tries to do.

- Google/Facebook are actively and proudly already using their power to manipulate the public's beliefs/emotions/behaviors. The government does the same, but "influencing" people via customized algorithmic manipulation of the social media feeds that they're obsessively staring at 10 hours a day is much more effective than just feeding some bullshit to gullible buzzfeed reporters now and then.

Taken as a whole, Google probably already has more raw power than all but a tiny handful of world governments (if even that many), with virtually no effective checks on its power or ambition going forward.

Re:More worried about Google/Facebook than the NSA

[AmiMoJo]

Meanwhile tech companies can and eagerly will summarily and mercilessly financially ruin you and effectively banish you from human interaction if they simply don't like your opinions.

Are you referring to people getting booted of Twitter and Patreon?

Poor Sargon, now he's only got all his other sources of revenue and publishing platforms left. Maybe he shouldn't have given up his day job.

Re:More worried about Google/Facebook than the NSA

[Anonymous Coward]

total tangent but when I've heard people who have insurance talk about their horror at the notion of the gov't being in charge of healthcare if we did universal, they invoke the whole stereotype that gov't is inefficient and wasteful and yadda yadda, but the ignore a few important things

1) we have a long running gov't run "health insurance" already, medicare, and it stands head and shoulders above the private health insurance industry in terms of keeping waste and overhead costs low
2) insurance companies (and any large corporation) are just as hugely wasteful bureaucracies as gov'ts

to which I usually add, and what your post made me think, is something like "whether true in practice or not, at least the gov't in theory is supposed to be acting in the best interest of the citizens whereas one thing you know for sure is that a private insurance company puts profit first because that is inherent in a for-profit business"

Re:More worried about Google/Facebook than the NSA

[Can'tNot]

I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over again in these threads, but: don't pick out Google and Facebook as though they're unique. They are just two of the largest players in a whole industry of corporate spying, and while they have access to an enormous amount of your data it's still less than the ISPs have access to.

Further, by destroying network neutrality the ISPs have won the right to manipulate public opinion to their own ends just as you fear Google and Facebook are doing. (I haven't seen any actual evidence of any of these tech companies doing this yet, but all of these companies have the ability and the legal cover to do it. Meanwhile, Sinclair Broadcasting has been doing this for many years.)

Re:More worried about Google/Facebook than the NSA

[LordAba]

Instead of a boot stamping your face forever, it is a person drumming in your face forever. Not much of an improvement.

Re:More worried about Google/Facebook than the NSA

[canesfan]

"- While the government can *theoretically* throw you in prison/Gitmo if it misinterprets your intercepted texts to Mom as coded threats to blow up the White House, the odds of it happening are infinitesimal and the procedure for doing so is long and tedious. " This was once the truth anyway. Trumps lawyer and Roger Stone being great examples of the Justice Dept wielding its awesome power and resources to go after political enemies. Yet the attorney General under Obama having a private meeting with the husband (Bill Clinton) while his wife was being investigated for having (and in fact having been found to have) violated the federal laws regarding the handling and transmission of classified documents is nothing that merits an ethics investigation. The incestuous relationship of civil service and politics is a real danger.

ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

You gotta be shitting me. The ACLU is a racist organization that consistently supports statist postures ... when they hurt white males. Free speech? So 20th century. The new ACLU is 100% focused on leftists propaganda, and doesn't have shit for civil liberties. Sounds like a good match for a guy who's job at Apple was as a prison warden. Their walled garden is a prison, and you are the prisoner.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Bobrick]

Sounds like a snowflake is offended.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Luckyo]

Snowflakes are in love with the walled garden. It's literally what they're asking for.

It is quite offensive to those of us who view the ACLU of old, the one that stood in defence of nazis' right to spew their national socialist anti-Jew BS because it was the right thing to do on principle. Political free speech should not be prosecuted, no matter how offensive. You should be free to say genocidal ideas, be they national socialist, communist, islamic or any other kind. Just as we should be free to debunk them just as vocally.

"I hate your message but I am willing to die so you can say it". Unfortunately, unlike the leftist movement of my day, modern left has no principles at all. In fact, much of the movement literally denounces the entire idea of being a principled actor with agency as impossibility, and claims that all that there is in a discussion is collective power struggle, in which all means justify the end of winning.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

^^ Found the triggered Nazi snowflake.

Re:ACLU!?!

[OYAHHH]

She/he is 100% correct. So your AC nan I snowflake crap don't hold water. Go away.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Darinbob]

The ACLU does not have a rigid policy for all of its members. So just because a few members are abandoning the civil-rights part of the oganization does not mean that the organization itself has abondoned those ideals. Also, don't believe everything you read from the right-of-center news mill, it is a popular tactic to stick "ACLU" in headlines because it's good for click-bait. There's a lot of fake news out there that doesn't hold up when examined; just because a headline matches your preconcieved bias doesn't mean it's accurate.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

^^ Found the triggered Nazi snowflake's girlfriend.

Re:ACLU!?!

[DNS-and-BIND]

Former ACLU legal director and Berkeley law professor John A. Powell recently told a reporter from the New Yorker that free speech rules in the United States fail to weigh the value of speech against the harms that speech can cause, and argued that we ought to regulate speech that can cause P.T.S.D. and "stereotype threat."

An internal company briefing produced by Google and leaked argues that due to a variety of factors, including the election of President Trump, the âoeAmerican traditionâ of free speech on the internet is no longer viable.

It's a real problem and it's only getting worse.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

A link from Breitbart, the king of fake news, sort of invalidates whatever you're trying to say. Please use reputable news sources instead.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Luckyo]

Do facts matter, or does political leaning of the one who says matter?

The process I described above about modern left is literally about the latter. Facts are irrelevant, all that matters is societal power. Which makes facts irrelevant. Which is why you made the statement you did. It was irrelevant to you that his link presented a factual argument. All that mattered was that the one who articulated the argument was against your views.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't disagree completely. Firstly, I am a member of the ACLU, so my opinion is somewhat qualified. Secondly, he or she is not wrong in that the ACLU is 100% focused on leftist propaganda at the moment. I joined because I was under the impression that Civil Liberties are inextricably linked to Constitution, but the last ACLU ceremony that I attended made it abundantly clear that the ACLU does not feel particularly strongly about the Constitution. It cares more about ousting Trump than it does about anything else, including and especially the Rule of Law. I don't support Trump, personally. I support the Constitution and the Rule of Law, so for me, it's disappointing to see the ACLU position itself exclusively as a Democratic institution.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Comrade, you have failed in using the proper officially mandated insults, you should call Nazis INCELS, to imply that a Nazi has a girlfriend might make them seem alright. Off to the gulag with you! Don't worry, it's for your own good.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Here are some 'FACTS' from that dumpster over there." Sources do matter.

Re:ACLU!?!

[DNS-and-BIND]

That's an adult hominem fallacy, not an argument. Moreover it was CNN, MSNBC, and all the other "legitimate" media who lied about those catholic school kids who were minding their own business when adults started messing with them. Lied their assess off.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Plumpaquatsch]

Do facts matter,

They do - that's why Breitbart doesn't.

Re:ACLU!?!

[kaatochacha]

He does have a point. The ACLU used to sort of proudly speak about defending the Nazi party's right to march in Skokie, since they weren't technically breaking any laws.
Would they do that now? no.
They used to be strictly civil liberties, regardless of the person being defended. The whole disagreeing with what you say but defending your right to say it. They now have a biases agenda in this respect.

Re:ACLU!?!

[kaatochacha]

If I find an article from an unreliable source, but the information presented is a link to a reputable source, I don't care.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Can'tNot]

I looked at the guy's argument for your first comment, thought it was really interesting. Here it is in full:

There are better arguments. “No one is disputing how the courts have ruled on this,” john a. powell, a Berkeley law professor with joint appointments in the departments of African-American Studies and Ethnic Studies, told me. “What I’m saying is that courts are often wrong.” Powell is tall, with a relaxed sartorial style, and his manner of speaking is soft and serenely confident. Before he became an academic, he was the national legal director of the A.C.L.U. “I represented the Ku Klux Klan when I was in that job,” he said. “My family was not pleased with me, but I said, ‘Look, they have First Amendment rights, too.’ So it’s not that I don’t understand or care deeply about free speech. But what would it look like if we cared just as deeply about equality? What if we weighed the two as conflicting values, instead of this false formalism where the right to speech is recognized but the harm caused by that speech is not?”

Yiannopoulos and many of his defenders like to call themselves free-speech absolutists, but this is hyperbole. No one actually believes that all forms of expression are protected by the First Amendment. False advertising, child pornography, blackmail—all are speech, all are illegal. You’re not allowed to shout “Fire!” in a crowded theatre, make a “true threat,” or incite imminent violence. These are all exceptions to the First Amendment that the Supreme Court has made—made up, really—over time. The boundaries can and do shift. In 1940, a New Hampshire man was jailed for calling a city marshal “a damned Fascist.” The Supreme Court upheld the conviction, ruling that the words were not protected by the First Amendment, because they were “fighting words,” which “by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.”

Are some of Yiannopoulos’s antics—say, his attempts to intimidate undocumented and transgender students—closer to fighting words than to intellectual discourse? Maybe. But the fighting-words doctrine has fallen out of favor with the courts. In 2006, the Westboro Baptist Church picketed a soldier’s funeral, carrying signs that read “Thank God for dead soldiers” and “You’re going to Hell.” Even factoring in almost seven decades of epithet inflation, this would seem more injurious than “damned Fascist.” And yet the Supreme Court ruled that the signs were protected by the First Amendment.

In the nineteen-seventies, when women entered the workplace in large numbers, some male bosses made salacious comments, or hung pornographic images on the walls. “These days, we’d say, ‘That’s a hostile workplace, that’s sexual harassment,’ ” powell said. “But those weren’t recognized legal concepts yet. So the courts’ response was ‘Sorry, nothing we can do. Pornographic posters are speech. If women don’t like it, they can put up their own posters.’ ” He drew an analogy to today’s trolls and white supremacists. “The knee-jerk response is ‘Nothing we can do, it’s speech.’ ‘Well, hold on, what about the harm they’re causing?’ ‘What harm? It’s just words.’ That might sound intuitive to us now. But, if you know the history, you can imagine how our intuitions might look foolish, even immoral, a generation later.”

Because it's The New Yorker it takes way too many words to say anything, but the point abut the legality of "fighting words" is interesting. I didn't know that speech which is intended to provoke is not protected. Despite the Westboro decision, this is apparently still true.

And yes: one person's right is another person's obligation, that's an acknowledged truth. "No right without its duties, no duty without its rights." So the value of any right needs to be weighed against the harm that it causes. (Not the harm that it may cause, it always causes harm.)

Re:ACLU!?!

[Luckyo]

So facts become something other than facts if [people I disagree with] post them?

See, this is the point where utter insanity of modern leftism kicks in. It's not the facts. It's who says them. If wrong person says them, facts aren't facts anymore, regardless of their merits.

In my youth, this sort of insanity was too much even for really far right wing people in the media. Nowadays, it's a mainstream view on the left. Which is exactly what we saw with the recent narrative on the maga hat kid from Catholic school. The fact that there were multiple videos of the event from different view points was irrelevant, because all of those videos were posted by [people who disagreed with mainstream leftist narrative]. Therefore, they weren't facts, while claims of the [people lionised by mainstream leftist narrative] were facts.

Re: ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not what Breitbart did tho.

Re: ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you know? The ACLU has defended white supremicist before and still do.

Re: ACLU!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. You sir, are a liar.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Plumpaquatsch]

So facts become something other than facts if [people I disagree with] post them?

If they are indeed fact, you could post from some other source that sole reason for existence isn't to spread the opposite of facts. Until then, no facts for you, Nazi.

Re:ACLU!?!

[Luckyo]

Are you sure you want to stick to your claim of "dissent from mainstream = nazi"?

Because overuse of this particular word aside, national socialists are in fact well documented for claiming that "dissent from mainstream = enemy of the people".

Who cares?

[ASCIIxTended]

The ACLU has become nothing more than a troll mill, just like the splc.

Re: Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell it to the ACLU. They have a guy who has nothing better to do than to pick up the telephone and listen to you whine about all the stuff you want them to do.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

just like the splc.

Qué? Who you calleen a splc, señor?

Re: Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

We have by dropping membership. The aclu no longer supports free speech and has allied with the far left in suppressing anything that upsets the commies.

Re: Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Authoritarian Fever?

[BECoole]

What is that? The attacks on freedom of association the Left has been mounting?

Re:Authoritarian Fever?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like boogie fever, but with more safe spaces.

This is great!

[Trailer Trash]

Authoritarianism is actually a problem now at the ACLU:

https://www.theatlantic.com/id...

As one example. Hopefully he'll be able to impact the organization from within. It's a shame, because at one time they seemed like a principled civil rights defender:

https://www.aclu.org/other/acl...

Now, they're willing to throw due-process under the bus for college-aged men while spewing vile looney left-wing talking points.

Re:This is great!

[Plumpaquatsch]

Authoritarianism is actually a problem now at the ACLU:

https://www.theatlantic.com/id...

Errm, that article starts with a lie: "Last week, the NRA kept defending gun rights" - not if you aren't white. Or more to the point: not if you aren't a gun maker.

Re:This is great!

[drinkypoo]

Errm, that article starts with a lie: "Last week, the NRA kept defending gun rights" - not if you aren't white. Or more to the point: not if you aren't a gun maker.

The rights they are defending are available to nonwhites as well. Less available, granted, since the cops are more likely to execute them for exercising them, but they are not preserved for whites and/or corporations only.

With that said, I'd like to see more black people be counted as owning firearms, and see what the NRA thought about that. It would probably be hilarious.

Re:This is great!

[kaatochacha]

Yeah, not so much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:This is great!

[Plumpaquatsch]

Errm, that article starts with a lie: "Last week, the NRA kept defending gun rights" - not if you aren't white. Or more to the point: not if you aren't a gun maker.

The rights they are defending are available to nonwhites as well

But they aren't defending them when it's about non-whites using them. Might as well just push sales of guns like they are supposed to as the marketing arm of gun makers, instead of bringing racism to the mix.

Re: This is great!

[Anonymous Coward]

1 person. LOL. Out of how many members? And he's your only token black guy. Every group needs a token.

It Happens, frequently now

[Anonymous Coward]

James Rosen was harassed, including his parents wire tapped, under Obama administration. He did nothing wrong that they could say. They were investigating him as a likely terrorist, but if you knew who he is you would immediately think that claim ridiculous. What they did was illegal.

FBI/DOJ used 4 FISA warrants, warrants for spying on terrorist, on Carter Paige. All 4 illegally done, each person involved getting FISA committed 6 felonies. They lied about the information, which was false, on the application and failed to verify it. No one involved in getting the 4 FISA warrants has yet been charged for their illegal activity. Again started under Obama administration.

So claiming it doesn't happen is false.
Claiming it can't happen is false.
Claiming that if it does happen, there will be consequences for the government is false.

Just thought I'd let you know what has been going on.

In addition Obama drone struck and killed a US citizen in Yemen without ever even attempting a trial. Claimed secret evidence that was never shown to even a judge.

Re:It Happens, frequently now

[Anonymous Coward]

Except 90% of the people complaining here about governmental abuse of power will approve of it when it's used against Fox News or Trump.

Re:It Happens, frequently now

[Anonymous Coward]

You must come here because you hate yourself then.

Re:It Happens, frequently now

[Anonymous Coward]

He's right though, and I come here to educate nazi faggot Trump supporters into realizing they're traitors. So far it's working, they seem to realize Trump's a faggot. It doesn't totally cure their Republican inbreeding, but it's a start.

Re: It Happens, frequently now

[Anonymous Coward]

President Barack Hussein Obama, recipient of the Nobel Prize, never did or could do anything wrong. If you say or even think otherwise we ANTIFA will kill you and your family.

Re: It Happens, frequently now

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you masturbate in your feces to kiddie porn all the time or just at specific times?

Re: It Happens, frequently now

[Anonymous Coward]

({0}) - that's your asshole.

({0})*+90%. - that's your asshole spitting out lies.

Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

Liberal SJW politics shoved down our thraots. I joined the KKK and voted Trump because THEY promised to stop the authoritarnism of the LEFT. And unlike the left they are competent and not evil.

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for taking the time to pull out of your sister and share your thoughts.

"To Tackle 'Authoritarian Fever'"???!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Let's stop all governments (which are all EVIL!!!) from INTERNET SPYING comrades!!!"
said ANTI-GOVERNMENT (but absolutely DARK WEB criminal user-friendly) people/lawyers of ACLU!!!

IMHO, this is just another public manipulation attempt, to turn all public to an enemy to all governments, nothing else!!!

PRISM was what?

[AHuxley]

Help for US law enforcement?

PRISM WAS AN NSL, MORON

[Anonymous Coward]

PRISM was a national security letter they couldn't rightly refuse and stay in business.

Well that pounds the nail into the coffin lid

[Anonymous Coward]

If this "expert" has signed-up with the ACLU then I'll have to assume Apple is completely untrustworthy and in bed with totalitarian government. The ACLU used to at least pretend to be for individual liberty and freedom (though, in practice they were only for left wing causes which sometimes lined up with these things). The current ACLU has gone so far in favor of dangerous totalitarian government that the famous liberal lawyer Alan Dershowitz is quite alarmed.

Of course, this lines-up perfectly with Apple being in bed with the Chniese communist totalitarian government - confirming the danger.

It would be nice to see some new actual American tech company arise - one with an American CEO, that manufactures stuff in America with American workers, and that was not constantly looking for ways to empower tyrants and dictators and ever-bigger government.

Re:Well that pounds the nail into the coffin lid

[kaatochacha]

The left has started eating the left, those who don't follow the exact script are out. Disagree with non-binary gender? heretic! Someone accuses you of sexual misconduct? Blasphemer! It's like the French Revolution all over again. Dershowitz supported most modern liberal ideals until the left went rabidly anti-Israel, and he saw the writing on the wall.

Re: Well that pounds the nail into the coffin lid

[Anonymous Coward]

The left....left...the left, the lefties, left left left.

Holy shit dude. Man up and take some responsibility. Stop listening to partisan news and form your own views. Jesus Christ you faggots keep pointing at the left like some fucking children playing a blame game. Grow the fuck up. This is why the republicans are a dying party, they no longer take responsibility for their actions. The only thing they know how to do is point to the left and say "THE LEFT"

You are a fucking idiot.

Don't be a sourpuss

[Anonymous Coward]

Let BeauHD swoon over this "security expert" that stands up to "criminal hackers" a little. It's nearly valentine's day.

Death Threat 3

[Anonymous Coward]

And death threat #3 from /.

Yep, it is the new norm on /. When you give liberals facts they don't like, death threats come and not a single moderator will do shit about it.

Re: Death Threat 3

[Anonymous Coward]

LOLOLOL.

What's the matter snowflake? What happen to all those gun loving republicans who handled shit themselves? Oh right it never existed you needed and still need daddy government to protect you.

Fucking pansy.

Re: More worried about Google/Facebook than the NS

[Anonymous Coward]

You
Reap
What
You
Sow.

Deal with it.

uh, dude, what's up with the homophobic rant?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the matter with you loving and tolerant lefties who are upset when somebody properly identifies you as leftists rather than "liberals", which you absolutely are NOT by classical definition?

It seems to be the most common default response by you guys to hurl homophobic slurs and unload a truckload of expletives which interfere with any rational calm discussions.