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Amazon Is Pushing Facial Recognition Tech That a Study Says Could Be Biased (nytimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The New York Times: Over the last two years, Amazon has aggressively marketed its facial recognition technology to police departments and federal agencies as a service to help law enforcement identify suspects more quickly. Now a new study from researchers at the M.I.T. Media Lab has found that Amazon's system, Rekognition, had much more difficulty in telling the gender of female faces and of darker-skinned faces in photos than similar services from IBM and Microsoft. The results raise questions about potential bias that could hamper Amazon's drive to popularize the technology.

In the study, published Thursday, Rekognition made no errors in recognizing the gender of lighter-skinned men. But it misclassified women as men 19 percent of the time, the researchers said, and mistook darker-skinned women for men 31 percent of the time. Microsoft's technology mistook darker-skinned women for men just 1.5 percent of the time. For the latest study, [co-author of the study, Ms. Buolamwini, said] she sent a letter with some preliminary results to Amazon seven months ago. But she said that she hadn't heard back from Amazon, and that when she and a co-author retested the company's product a couple of months later, it had not improved.
"It's not possible to draw a conclusion on the accuracy of facial recognition for any use case -- including law enforcement -- based on results obtained using facial analysis," Matt Wood, general manager of AI at Amazon Web Services, said. He added that the researchers had not tested the latest version of Rekognition, which was updated in November.

"Amazon said that in recent internal tests using an updated version of its service, the company found no difference in accuracy in classifying gender across all ethnicities," the NYT reports. The new study is scheduled to be presented Monday at an artificial intelligence and ethics conference in Honolulu.

91 comments

  1. Inaccurate by Kohath · · Score: 0, Troll

    Software can be inaccurate. It can't be biased.

    1. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Software can have the same biases as its designers.

    2. Re:Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The word biased has a scientific connotation to it. Fake journalists use it to sound smarter. Plus it's been adopted by the offended community, which is the main audience of the Fake News Times. It has special meanings.

    3. Re: Inaccurate by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Machine learning doesn't work like that. You feed data into it and it works out the algorithms itself.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

      If it were equally inaccurate across racial and gender lines, you'd be right. The algorithm has more false positives among dark skinned and female people (because it depends on shadows and lighting, so makeup and dark skin naturally present difficulties.) Also, beards.

      With lidar and better color ranges in the data, the technology would lack bias. Unfortunately, it favors beardless bald white men, so it is, by definition, biased against women and minorities.

      And bearded men.

      Oh, and glasses. Or hats. Long hair. Really, the people with the lowest level of bias are bald white men with no facial hair, like Howie Mandel or Joe Rogan. If you're a bearded black woman wearing a hat, the algorithm wouldn't have a clue.

      The algorithms are interesting technically, and I'm sure there are genuinely well intentioned cops trying to use this for good, but society needs to rein in the surveillance state and big tech before people start getting hurt.

    5. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't like the end results of your machine learning algorithms, again the problem lies with the designers. Software can not be inaccurate, it does exactly what it is told.

    6. Re: Inaccurate by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Machine learning doesn't work like that. You feed data into it and it works out the algorithms itself.

      Algorithms can most certainly exhibit bias.

      https://www.technologyreview.c...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      https://towardsdatascience.com...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re: Inaccurate by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Machine learning doesn't work like that. You feed data into it and it works out the algorithms itself.

      Data can be biased. If the training set is 90% photos of white people, then the NN is going to be better at identifying white people.

      But it isn't clear why bias is a problem here. If it correctly identifies a white thief 90% of the time, and a black thief 80% of the time, is it really better to "fix it" so that the white identification rate is lowered to 80%, so that it is "fair"?

    8. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      typical racist leftist.

    9. Re:Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Software can be inaccurate. It can't be biased.

      Biased software == Software that tells us things SJWs don't like.

      I highly doubt it's either inaccurate or biased.

    10. Re:Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is there one single Tolerant Liberal out there who isn't a raging violent profane lunatic?

    11. Re: Inaccurate by arth1 · · Score: 1

      But it isn't clear why bias is a problem here. If it correctly identifies a white thief 90% of the time, and a black thief 80% of the time, is it really better to "fix it" so that the white identification rate is lowered to 80%, so that it is "fair"?

      Depending on the application, it could be, yes. The difference in false positive rate between 90% and 80% is double.
      If the recognition frequently leads to police action that can be harmful or disturbing for innocents, having a system that falsely identifies one group twice as much as another might cause tension. In that case, lowering the accuracy until it's equal across the board might be prudent, so black innocents aren't twice as likely[*] to be falsely targetted as white innocents are.
      Catching more thieves might not offset that injustice.

      [*]: Or even more, if sequential targeting occurs, trying the second on the list if the first fails, then the third. The total error rate accumulates faster the higher the uncertainty.

    12. Re: Inaccurate by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      The problem is the errors. Say you had facial recognition checking people entering a venue against their recorded details, and it decided that you were the wrong gender and barred you. At best it would be annoying as you had to get someone to manually intervene, at worse you could be badly disadvantaged.

      There was a story last year about a woman who had endless trouble with telephone banking because the system was convinced her voice sounded male. The bank said they couldn't do anything about it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But where does that line of thinking end? Black vs white is pretty clear cut due to the exposure it gets traditionally, but how about Somalian vs Nigerian? Chinese vs Japanese? Etc - other combinations that are known to experience the necessary tension under certain circumstances.

    14. Re: Inaccurate by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      There was a story last year about a woman who had endless trouble with telephone banking because the system was convinced her voice sounded male.

      Do you have a citation? I am curious why a bank would treat one gender differently than another, and give "endless trouble" only to males.

      I have a Vanguard account, and they use voice recognition as an optional extra security feature, but they treat males and females exactly the same. The VR identifies each customer as an individual. Categorizing voices by gender would be pointless and unnecessary.

    15. Re: Inaccurate by arth1 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't end, and shouldn't. Every circumstance is different, and new problems can and will present themselves. This is why we have a legislature and government, instead of relying on black-and-white totalitarian laws and regulation, set in stone and not allowing adjustments to reality.

      One of the functions of a modern government is to protect the minorities from a tyranny of the majority, and make sure that justice is kept blind, even if it means we sometimes have to deliberately blindfold her.

    16. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No but it was just common sense. The claim was that any frequency above some threshold was always female

    17. Re:Inaccurate by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      Wow being modded down for wrongthink.

      No my post was not a troll because I'm not trying ot get a rise. Bias in statistics is a thing. Any alorithm that implements statistics risks bias. Algorithms are not perfect just because they're run on a computer.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    18. Re:Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Save yourself. This site is lost. Getting modded troll for reporting facts.

    19. Re: Inaccurate by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-...

      Their fraud system sees that the account belongs to a woman and flags it up when it things a man is calling.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re:Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kill yourself, alt-right sperg

      I'd LOVE to see you come to the bars where I hang out and start talking your psycho-SJW bullshit.

      You'd get a hard lesson in why it's important to respect others.

    21. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, stupid n1gger. Go back to school.

    22. Re: Inaccurate by jtara · · Score: 1

      The VR identifies each customer as an individual.

      Do you know that for certain?

      A lot of this stuff is more smoke and mirrors than you might think. They may well feel that a rough classification is better than nothing.

      Female voice and they know the account holder is male? Reject!

      British accent, and they know (from voice analysis) the account holder has a Valley Girl accent? Reject, fershure!

      A very reasonable approach, really. Don't assume that this stuff is doing sophisticated voice prints.

    23. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those fighting "possible bias" may have bias.

      If Perfect Facial Recognition Software (TM) recognizes middle aged male entering "female" bathroom in school and rises alert ...it may be biased.
      How that software may know that I am self identifying as female since yesterday?
      It is baaad software with bias.

      On the other hand if such not perfect software recognizes that there is fight between male and female it should classify it as obvious male aggression on female. Never in any other class.

    24. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black vs white is pretty clear cut due to the exposure it gets traditionally, but how about Somalian vs Nigerian? Chinese vs Japanese?

      How about Sen. Elizabeth Warren ? if it classified her as white that is mistake. it should know better.

      When arriving to the US airport I am trying to identify as Native American to skip passport check but they always say you are not ... how do they know? I am in 1/1023 ;-)

    25. Re: Inaccurate by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The fix for that is to invest in better quality equipment that works all over the USA.
      Its not a math, design, computer problem. Its a global data set problem.
      Keep working on the design until it works as expected on all average passengers, drivers around the USA.
      The demographics of a city should be easy to understand. Find nations with the same average demographics and see what their best CCTV detection rate is?
      Other advanced nations have the same count of people to track with CCTV and passports/national ID cards everyday.
      Bring all the working CCTV code back to the USA and every advanced nations police detection math can be added to US math.
      Slowly the detection rate will go way up and less police will be needed to respond to data sets that did not match.

      Jobs, math, cooperation, more police work and more police over time, criminals and illegal migrants detected.
      City crime rates go down and investment returns. Illegal migrants get found.
      Nations that gave the US their demographic math/code get a huge return as the USA exports back their great new police CCTV products.
      Faster computer networks, better detection of every face.
      Export jobs in the USA with new advanced CCTV systems for global use.
      More winning.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    26. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I am in female dress , how it knows that I am male? I self identify as one.
      that is oppression, discrimination and macro aggression ....

    27. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're gender neutral now. Your people told us so.

    28. Re: Inaccurate by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I'd be curious to see how it classifies "Kaitlyn" Jenner, or "Chelsea" Manning.

    29. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're so brave

    30. Re:Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you've lost track of what biased means.

      Persistently inaccurate in the same direction is what biased means.

      A gun can be biased up and to the right, for instance.

      The word's etymology is from the word for an oblique line (as in, slanted). Because an object tossed onto a slanted surface will tend to end up on one side of said surface.

    31. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DATA is racist....We've all seen it.
      The Police in the UK had to backtrack from their crime Database because it wasn't showing what they wanted. I'll let you guess what it did though!
      In Canada we're not allowed to gather data on perps' Race etc anymore...
      Geez I wonder why?

    32. Re: Inaccurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Say you had facial recognition checking people entering a venue against their recorded details, and it decided that you were the wrong gender and barred you

      If they check against an ID with the photograph, the usage of an assumed gender as a sanity check is simply a weakness in the design. A valid ID is something that the people have and can be verified, while the photo can be separately matched to that of the ID. After that come the possession of any codes or tickets that correspond with the ID.

    33. Re: Inaccurate by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      This must be a new meaning of the word "biased" - adj, giving a result I don't agree with.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    34. Re: Inaccurate by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      This must be a new meaning of the word "biased" - adj, giving a result I don't agree with.

      You read those citations and THAT'S your takeaway? I'm not sure I believe you're that stupid, but I guess I could be wrong.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  2. Re: Global warming my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm looking out my window and it is sunny and low 80's. You should move somewhere better.

  3. AI spotted the gorrila in the room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doh!

  4. Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >to be presented Monday at an artificial intelligence and ethics conference in Honolulu.

    When you really want in depth information on AI and ethics, you HAVE to go spend a week in beautiful Hawaii. That's where all the.... uh.... stuff is.

  5. Wait, does Amazon AI prove.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that all black people look the same?

    1. Re:Wait, does Amazon AI prove.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that all black people look the same?

      No, not all the same ... there are several variations using attributer other than skin color:
      height, head hairs, chin stubble, tattoos , missing body pieces (eye, ear, nose, arm or leg ...)
      presence or lack of artificial objects piercing body ...

      And do not forget that "black people" may be for southern India or Oceania ... and some African origin people may be more Middle East or European with only some dominating attributes characteristic to African population.

      Long live the paramount mix from Brazil or Gujana ... part this, part that ... and you end with 2 digits in the denominator to describe fully the mix.

  6. So, biased against white people? by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 2

    So the message is that the software is much more likely to be successful at apprehending guilty white people? Sorry for using a racist tag ("white") in my comment.

    It does sound like it's strongly biased against white people and should be scrutinized carefully.

    1. Re:So, biased against white people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reality is racist as there's more sdm in populations who have historically lived in extreme environments.

    2. Re:So, biased against white people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "So the message is that the software is much more likely to be successful at apprehending guilty white people? "

      What about orange people?

    3. Re: So, biased against white people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Always some tds dumb ass has to go there. This tech is evil all on its own. But did you comment on that? Noooooo! You had to spew Orange Man Bad! because in your echo chamber of acid dropping college drop out art students that is funny.

    4. Re:So, biased against white people? by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      No, the software is more likely to mistake an innocent black woman as being someone guilty of something. White men would be unlikely to suffer undue harassment due to this technology, as it would at least almost always flag them correctly and wouldn't mistake, uh, Mr Rogers, for, I dunno, Ted Bundy.

      Depending on how good LEOs are at not harassing black people due to mistaken identification (I'm stifling a laugh here) it could theoretically increase harassment of black women if deployed as an aid to law enforcement.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:So, biased against white people? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      theoretically increase harassment of black women

      If it's misidentifying *this* black woman as *that* black woman then surely there's no overall change?

      Now if it's misidentifying white men, traffic cones or parakeets as black women then maybe there are some bugs that need fixing.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  7. Sign of just how far gone we are.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...when the concern about this tech is not that it exists but that it might be "unfair" to some artificial identity politics minority.

    1. Re:Sign of just how far gone we are.... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 0

      Would you like to be mis-identified as a criminal, arrested, jailed, stuck with an arrest record, have your mugshot posted online, and have to pay thousands in lawyer fees to keep the system from fucking you or bullying you into a plea bargain (cops and DAs tend not to want to admit that they're wrong)? Start thinking of dark-skinned people as humans, show some empathy, and maybe you'll understand.

    2. Re: Sign of just how far gone we are.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are assuming false positive identifications as the problem in the system. The article is talking about incorrect gender identification. There is no evidence presented here about false positive rates with regard to sub-groups, so your assumption isnâ(TM)t substantiated.

    3. Re: Sign of just how far gone we are.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm ... no one would check the output of this thing and see its clearly wrong ?

  8. Idiocracy. by Charcharodon · · Score: 3, Funny
    Camera sensors that do not have full dynamic range (none do by the way) and the fact that some women are really homely looking = racism.

    Lol idiots (journalists)

    1. Re: Idiocracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homey looking you meant - I am waiting with baited breath for the Honolulu seminar

    2. Re:Idiocracy. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Whoosh. That the sound of the point completely passing you by.

      Your face gets matched, they haul you in, or send a SWAT team to your house, or make you miss your flight. These systems encourage lazy policing. We have seen it before, and they assured us that it wouldn't be rolled out until the problems were fixed. They lied.

      If you were being pulled over and detailed regularly because your face kept triggering the facial recognition software you would get pissed off pretty quickly. For some people it's more than an inconvenience and many think that the police are already biased against them.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Idiocracy. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Then over time the police networks will be improved. Police do not have enough staff to get that amount of wrong matched faces.
      To drive out and stop every wrong "matched" face is another urgent call to the police at the same that has to be held back.

      How to fix that?
      Buy better equipment that works and gets better results all over the USA.
      Criminals and illegal migrants in inner city areas get caught/tracked when driving, as a passenger.
      Along with any real time smart phone in use, any criminals in contact with them. Voice prints for city/state use would be the next gen upgrade.
      Police get to track criminals as they move around their city, all around the USA.

      The problem is not with the math, policing, the dataset. A criminal already has their data in the system.
      Better detection will find the criminals, illegal migrants.
      Slowly inner city areas see a reduction in crime. Fewer part RV, less waste and trash in streets. Fewer tents.
      Investment and tourism returns. Full gentrification sets in. Rents go up.
      Criminal know that cant just wonder around now safer city areas as they get detected and searched.
      A set number of city police can then enforce city laws. Less non criminals get matched as the tech is improved all over the USA.
      Criminals and illegal migrants find their fake ID no longer work as well as they did for decades.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Idiocracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is not with the math, policing, the dataset. A criminal already has their data in the system.

      Yeah they already have a Social Security Number.

      Better detection will find the criminals, illegal migrants.

      No better policework will catch the criminals. Police work. You know that thing that you're supposedly paying them for and bitch about how much it costs in taxes?

      Slowly inner city areas see a reduction in crime. Fewer part RV, less waste and trash in streets. Fewer tents.

      No. That occurs with a better economy. Guess what? Despite what the orange idiot you keep cheering for has said, it's crap.

      Investment and tourism returns. Full gentrification sets in. Rents go up.

      Now you're just living in a fantasy world. Crime isn't caused by "born-criminals" nor illegal immigrants. Crimes are caused by lack of legal opportunity, and stratification. I.e. Claiming you're above helping out another person because of the number of zeros, or lack thereof, in your bank account.

      You want crime to go away? Quit being a selfish dick. It doesn't matter how many cameras you have, nor how many police officers are on the beat. At the end of the day, when you face down the business end of a shotgun barrel, the only thing that will let you live is the compassion the person holding the gun has for your life. Not any magic incantations, praying, or asswipes on a piece of paper made by a politician, compassion is all that matters. That's true of lesser crimes too. How bad are you going to feel about stealing that pack of gum? How about robbing that bank? Or driving over the speedlimit? How much do you justify putting yourself above others in each of those instances? Fix that, and you'll fix a whole lot of problems not just the criminal ones. Don't fix it, because you want to continue being a selfish dick, and don't be surprised when others return the favor.

      Criminal know that cant just wonder around now safer city areas as they get detected and searched.

      And as a result criminals are now much more likely to "tie up loose ends" and make more dangerous decisions to avoid being detected / searched. After all if no witnesses live to call the police, the criminals have more time to get away. If they take out the traffic cameras by causing a blackout at a nearby hospital, they can cover their tracks easier. If they kill you and take your car for their getaway, it's less likely to be flagged by a license plate scanner during their escape. Of course this also means heavier weaponry is needed by criminals to expedite these new tactics, which means there's even less of a chance of you doing anything to stop them, and it "necessitates" similar weaponry build ups with the police, while enraging the "Gun Ban" crowd even more and giving them more ammo to hit lawmakers with. Way to go dick, you've made the situation worse for everyone.

      A set number of city police can then enforce city laws. Less non criminals get matched as the tech is improved all over the USA.

      Because having less police do the work and moving it all to machines is the answer huh? If that thing ever gets hacked, I hope you speak binary.

      Criminals and illegal migrants find their fake ID no longer work as well as they did for decades.

      Hey mouthbreather, the site you're looking for is over there.

    5. Re:Idiocracy. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      AC 'and make more dangerous decisions to avoid being detected / searched. "
      Criminals doing their decades of "crime" in inner city areas not stop crime and bring back investment and jobs.

      Re "because having less police do the work and moving it all to machines is the answer huh?"

      A city can only afford so many police every decade and to cover their pensions.
      Thats a set number of police in a city to cover all requests for help and all results of CCTV.
      Detecting inner city crime using CCTV allows the same number of police to work a lot better at catching criminals and illegal migrants.
      A reduction in inner city crime will free up city tax collection and spending.
      A city can then focus on transport, housing, roads, new methods of transport, parks, tourism, working to attract more private sector jobs.
      Stop the inner city crime and a city becomes a great place to live and invest in again.
      Advanced CCTV to detect faces, voice prints, the tracking of all transport entering a city, smart phone tracking will detect criminal patterns.
      Crime is not longer a way of life for decades in an inner city thanks to advances in tech and much better policing.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:Idiocracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better detection will find the criminals, illegal migrants.
      Slowly inner city areas see a reduction in crime. Fewer part RV, less waste and trash in streets. Fewer tents.
      Investment and tourism returns. Full gentrification sets in. Rents go up.

      Well, this sucks. Fewer tents, fewer RVs AND rents that go up and you might get harassed by police if walking alone at night. You're just making the city more unlivable then.

    7. Re:Idiocracy. by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      Lol, lived in the UK with there CCTV......and it did squat all to reduce crime. The police spent all their time watching the cameras and rarely came out to do anything about the actual crime.

  9. But, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How well does it discriminate between the individuals? Law enforcement should focus on known criminals and the behaviour of the individuals rather than their gender, which should be more important for researchers and marketers.

  10. Get off slashdot and go read the tabloids by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    Along with all the other morons who believe that local weather = global climate.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  11. Ethnicity? by tomhath · · Score: 2

    the company found no difference in accuracy in classifying gender across all ethnicities

    Maybe the spokesperson is clueless, but ethnicity is not race. Look at people in Cuba: some appear Black, some European, some Native American, many are mixed. But all are Hispanic ethnicity.

    1. Re:Ethnicity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's because "hispanic" is a catch-all made-up bullshit ethnicity to begin with. Those people don't "appear" black, white, native Indian/Asian, etc. They ARE black, white, native Indian/Asian, etc. There are "hispanics" who have more lily-white European DNA than a country music fest in Salt Lake City. There are also "hispanics" who are as African as a poor slave who just got dragged off the boat. And there are "hispanics" who are as pure Asian as the first ambitious bear hunter who crossed the land-bridge in Alaska.

  12. Well, visible light camera sensors by presidenteloco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    work by recording the light reflected from objects.
    Darker-toned faces reflect less visible-wavelength light.
    That's just physics, not racism.
    So the amount of light, and ability to resolve contrasts, edges etc, would be less.
    So the image classification task might be subject to more error.
    Perhaps a different spectral range would work better?

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re: Well, visible light camera sensors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or a simplier explanation, the training sets are larger for whit men than black women so the NN is better at identifying white men.

    2. Re:Well, visible light camera sensors by scamper_22 · · Score: 0

      I'll just latch on here.

      In the entire article, there is no mention of the word racism. There is mention of bias... and it is biased. It performs better against some groups and worse against others. Pretty much the definition of bias.

      Now I am not saying you're connotation is wrong here.

      There's a high chance some people will read the article and read 'bias' as 'racism' in these times we live in, when it is most likely just a case of Amazon's software not being as good as it could be. But there is no claim of racism in the article. The lady basically says she is just highlighting the difference to encourage the firms to do better. Sounds good to me.

      Again, not naive here.
      You read into the article and assume they're charging racism when they're not doing it directly.
      Others will read into the study and assume Amazon is racist when they're not doing it directly either.

      The claim in the article is that IBM and Microsoft do a better job across darker skin tones. I severely doubt anyone at Amazon is like, let's tailor the algorithm to identify black women as men. It's probably just some aspect of science as you say, and some aspect of not emphasizing darker tone identification in their trials. Their 'metric' for success is probably not something like 90% accuracy for white people, 90% for black people, 90% for Asian people... If it were they wouldn't release with such issues. Their 'metric' is probably 90% across a sample size.

      And let's not pretend this kind of technology can't have a severe impact downstream. Suppose the end result of this is that blacks are misidentified 20% more than whites. That means innocent blacks getting stopped and questioned for misidentification 20% more than whites. No one is explicitly racist, but the end result is more problems that can manifest themselves in racial tensions.

      Let me give an example here. I used to live in a 'troubled' neighborhood. The result was more policy presence (I think validly). But the problem was I got stopped a lot. When I started driving, I was terrified of being pulled over or stopped. Not for doing anything criminal. Just regular driving infractions like speeding or whatever. And I was stopped for all the stupid reasons you see on TV. "Oh sir your license plate light is out". Sure... go ahead and search my car so i can be on my way.

      I then moved to a nicer neighborhood. I pretty much never got stopped. The screwed up part is, with my new found freedom, I actually did more 'illegal stuff' I had the freedom to think I could keep weed in the car and not worry about being stopped by police.

      That got me thinking of two people, both living average low-level illegal lives. Drinking and driving, smoking weed...

      One lives in a troubled area and gets pulled over by the police more often.

      One lives in a nicer neighborhood and does not get pulled over.

      Through no fault of the police. They're just doing their jobs, the system is unfair to the kid in the troubled area doing low level crime as he is more likely to be stopped and thus found out doing crime. The kid in the nicer neighborhood gets to do his youthful low level illegal behavior pretty much without consequence.

      Now again, someone might say, well they're still doing a crime, so it's not a problem they get arrested. Just don't do anything wrong.

      There's some truth to that. That's how I behaved living in the troubled neighborhood. I was told not to screw up and by in large I did not. But I was exceptional (stereotyped indian immigrant story). But should we as a society expect the other 95% of kids in troubled areas to behave like the very best boy scouts? Better than kids in better neighborhoods. That just sound unreasonable.

      Anyways, I'm not complaining of racism here. I don't think I'd have the police act any differently. I'm just pointing out how things which are not explicitly 'racist' can still have an impact. Pushing for accurate and fair systems especially as we more to mass surveillance is definitely something to watch out for.

  13. Re: Bias: no no,no no no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why the hell would you WANT some fucked up bezos computer to identify you as you walk down the street?

    I would say it is biased against bald beardless white men. Black women get misidentified at such a high rate the tech is worthless to identify them. That is a GOOD THING FOR BLACK WOMEN!!!

    Iâ(TM)m not bald and now I am definitely keeping my beard. For once, a benefit to being a black woman: you dont get tracked and stored by bezos and his evil minions.

    And any amazon engineers reading this who worked on the tech, SHAME ON YOU! You could have earned just as much working on tech that is not evil and not putting it straight into the hands of evil people and everyone with a dollar.

  14. Is this face recognition? by longk · · Score: 1

    When a person recognises another person's face we usually mean to say that they've seen the person before and/or can possibly identify the person.

    This slashdot article suggests that something else is meant here: gender and race recognition. Is that indeed the case? Are we asking law-enforcement systems to identify gender and race?

    If so, to what end? To find people based that match often vague descriptions?

    I'm probably being a moron for not realising this until now. All this time I thought they were just looking to match people on the street with photos of people that are "wanted".

    1. Re:Is this face recognition? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      It sounds like gender is used as a proxy for matching effectiveness (i.e. "it can't even recognize gender correctly"). I'm guessing that authorities want to use those systems to match passers by against a database of wanted people's faces.

    2. Re:Is this face recognition? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The idea is to get every face of every passenger and driver linked to their smart phone and method of transport when moving around any US city.
      Move into any larger US city using any establish method of transport and that new face is detected.
      That detects all criminals and illegal migrants expecting their fake ID to work.

      Inner city crime can then be detected and tracked over time.
      Prediction then sets in as average criminals that move in the parts of the inner city have always expect to be as safe. As in past decades and generations.
      A change to criminal methods that have always worked in some city areas becomes a risk.
      Maps, GUI, police in the area can alter their methods to changes in real time CCTV detected criminal movements.
      How long it takes for police to respond given traditional patrol times and set numbers of police in an inner city area becomes more dynamic and very unexpected to criminals.
      CCTV and the real time detection of criminals and illegal migrants can offer a real time and rapid change to expected police movements.

      Police corruption is reduced as they are also tracked :)
      No responding, slow to respond? Th GUI detects and plots every reported crime. Police been seen with criminals? Corruption can be detected federally and by city police well outside inner city areas.

      A city may not be able to pay for a lot more police.
      The ability to enforce city laws and pre position police in much better ways using vast new real time CCTV datasets.
      Full gentrification sets in.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Is this face recognition? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If human cannot always recognize gender correctly .... why machine is obliged to do so?

      Who first will declare I will never make mistake identifying human gender from the picture, in clothes, ... by night with weak light ..
      Only such person can complain about bias ....

      Everybody is making mistakes ... that "lady in dress and long hair" after few drinks and surprise in the hotel room ...

  15. Re: Global warming my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet facial expressions make a big difference looking at still pictures

  16. We need to stop all this race hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It does not matter what color, gender or religion you are. We can All be Bros. The important thing to do is divide the world up along the lines of thin crust pizza or thick crust pizza. All people who eat thick crust are destroying the planet and raping babies. They need to die.

    Go thin crusy

    1. Re:We need to stop all this race hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disgusting thin privilege from the alt-pie crustist. I bet you think all thickers should just "go back to Sicily" too.

      You just can't handle a REAL pie. With thick sides and curves.

      CRUST AT ANY SIZE

  17. Re: Bias: no no,no no no! by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    Why is this a good think for Black women? It seems like they'd be falsely arrested at a higher rate than other people, assuming the tech is seeking matches for wanted criminals or terrorists.

  18. I don't believe it. by hey! · · Score: 2

    Facebook would *never* promote a technology without thoroughly thinking through the implications. They are the pinnacle of corporate social responsibilty...

    Come to think of it, that last part may actually be true.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  19. Obviously this technology should be banned by Solandri · · Score: 1

    In the study, published Thursday, Rekognition made no errors in recognizing the gender of lighter-skinned men. But it misclassified women as men 19 percent of the time, the researchers said

    Obviously this technology needs to be banned from use until it misidentifies men as women as often as it misidentifies women as men. We can't allow anything that yields unequal results from ever being used.

  20. Biological men and women or self-identified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm human and in 2019 I'm not always sure - is the AI being trained to recognize chromosomes or affect? This is not a troll, I am serious.

    1. Re: Biological men and women or self-identified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the point of AI and ML is to figure out what is important as well as decide rather than use a pre-existing criteria.

  21. it will always be biased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    therefore this is a non-story.

    1. Re: it will always be biased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe a memo on the range of acceptable outcomes was circulated a while back

  22. Told Ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Y'all look alike to the rest of us.

  23. So Facial Recognition tech is useless? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Facial Recognition Tech That a Study Says Could Be Biased"

    Is Facial Recognition Tech, supposed to be absolutely error free, or, how much error it is allowed to have exactly?

    Is Facial Recognition Tech, always do less errors than any human doing the same job, or more?

    If Facial Recognition Tech does errors, what is the harm of those errors exactly?
    If a facial recognition tech identifies somebody as a criminal, are the police just go & arrest that person & put him/her to jail?
    Nobody ever checks/verifies (first) whatever Facial Recognition Tech says?

  24. Probably trained on full-time development staff by jtara · · Score: 1

    They probably trained this on their full-time development staff.

    They should have included warehouse staff, and then a double measure of cleaning/maintenance staff.

    There. Fixed that.

  25. Re: Bias: no no,no no no! by fafalone · · Score: 1

    Some people are under the mistaken impression that something wildly inaccurate and highly biased towards false positives wouldn't be sufficient to void Constitutional rights. The Supreme Court put that notion to rest when they ruled a cop merely needs to claim a dog trained to please him gave permission, and the 4th Amendment is gone. People who think inaccuracy is a good thing will be sorely disappointed. Well, they won't until the day comes when they're on the receiving end of police bullshit, but then they will.

  26. Monkeys by QuadEddie · · Score: 1

    Remember when Google's image algorithm classified multiple black people like gorillas and monkeys? YouTube's video suggestion algorithm did the same thing: After a report on a crime committed by black people, viewers were recommended a video of a baby gorilla born at a zoo.

    This pattern recognition was completely unbiased. Without human political correctness, computers do think black people look like gorillas, and that's a harsh pill for many to swallow.

    Am I surprised that black people are again on the raw end of computer logic? No. Computers think that black women look like black men a significant percentage of the time. Programmers now need to try and figure out how not to misgender black women (a really hard problem to solve in technology). I suggest that young non-black children might even have a similar struggle and error rate in black gender identification by facial photo.