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Amid Chaos Venezuelans Struggle To Find The Truth, Online (npr.org)
In Venezuela, where media is controlled by the government, figuring out what is truth, rumor or propaganda has always been difficult. NPR reports: In recent days it's gotten even more confusing. President Nicolas Maduro has refused to cede power to the opposition party. There have been widespread protests and looting -- and the rumor mill has been churning on social media. But many Venezuelans have found a way to use social media in their favor.
Javier Rojo owns a pharmacy in the capital city of Caracas. As the chaos started, he gave his workers the day off, went home and turned on the TV -- only to find nothing was being reported. "Independent media has been gradually attacked or shut down over time," says professor Gregory Weeks, who teaches Latin American politics at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. "So that in general social media becomes the means by which you learn what's going on, on an ongoing basis."
Back at his house, Rojo says he started getting messages on WhatsApp like this one from from one of his employees: "Tanks are rolling into the park. They are launching tear gas." But then, Rojo started receiving WhatsApp messages with rumors from people he doesn't even know. One man, who says his aunt's husband is a military officer, swore that Maduro has resigned. Professor Raisa Urribarri researches technology and politics at Universidad de Los Andes in Venezuela. She says it's hard to trace the origins of some messages in Venezuelan social media. They can be from panicked citizens, the opposition or the government.
Javier Rojo owns a pharmacy in the capital city of Caracas. As the chaos started, he gave his workers the day off, went home and turned on the TV -- only to find nothing was being reported. "Independent media has been gradually attacked or shut down over time," says professor Gregory Weeks, who teaches Latin American politics at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. "So that in general social media becomes the means by which you learn what's going on, on an ongoing basis."
Back at his house, Rojo says he started getting messages on WhatsApp like this one from from one of his employees: "Tanks are rolling into the park. They are launching tear gas." But then, Rojo started receiving WhatsApp messages with rumors from people he doesn't even know. One man, who says his aunt's husband is a military officer, swore that Maduro has resigned. Professor Raisa Urribarri researches technology and politics at Universidad de Los Andes in Venezuela. She says it's hard to trace the origins of some messages in Venezuelan social media. They can be from panicked citizens, the opposition or the government.
They can be from panicked citizens, the opposition or the government.
That should probably read 'a government'.
I reserve the write to mangle english.
https://twitter.com/Louis_Alld...
@Louis_Allday
This is too perfect.
Anti-Maduro Venezuelan on 19 January: "I'm living in the cutest apartment in Paris studying fashion... life is good"
24 January: "I live here [Venezuela]. I live this. live with having rationed food, toilet paper, basic human necessities."
The Internet has a protocol for this problem: Pics or it didn't happen.
Video is even better.
When you get right down to it, trust is a valuable, important thing. Civilizations that learn how to cultivate and protect it do better than those which don't. US media once knew this. Then they discovered they could lie for money, and burned all the trust they'd ever had (except among the elderly who are no longer capable of detecting that their once cherished institutions have turned into money-grubbing liars). I would have called them lying whores, but whores at least provide a useful service.
This is an opportunity for some Venezuelans to become a reporters. Real reporters. If they live through it, they could win the Pulitzer prize. Odds aren't good they'll live through it. Speaking truth to power in such places is hazardous to one's health.
If you spend your whole life blaming everyone else for your problems it becomes difficult to accurately trace cause to effect.
Oh yea, and some of the people in charge are secretly evil.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0...
Conspicuous by its absence in much of the mainstream news coverage of Venezuela’s political crisis is the word “socialism.” Yes, every sensible observer agrees that Latin America’s once-richest country, sitting atop the world’s largest proven oil reserves, is an economic basket case, a humanitarian disaster, and a dictatorship whose demise cannot come soon enough.
But socialist? Perish the thought.
Or so goes a line of argument that insists socialism’s good name shouldn’t be tarred by the results of experience. On Venezuela, what you’re likelier to read is that the crisis is the product of corruption, cronyism, populism, authoritarianism, resource-dependency, U.S. sanctions and trickery, even the residues of capitalism itself. Just don’t mention the S-word because, you know, it’s working really well in Denmark.
Curiously, that’s not how the Venezuelan regime’s admirers used to speak of “21st century socialism,” as it was dubbed by Hugo Chávez. The late Venezuelan president, said Britain’s Jeremy Corbyn, “showed us there is a different and a better way of doing things. It’s called socialism, it’s called social justice, and it’s something that Venezuela has made a big step toward.” Noam Chomsky was similarly enthusiastic when he praised Chávez in 2009. “What’s so exciting about at last visiting Venezuela,” the linguist said, is that “I can see how a better world is being created and can speak to the person who’s inspired it.”
Stop lying. The refugee invasion from Libya caused the French and Italian military response, not the other way around. The Afghan government harboring Al Quada caused the US invasion, not the other way around. The Iranian puppetry in Baghdad caused the rise of ISIS, not the US. You desperately want to blame the US, because that's what you've been told to believe, but you just keep spreading lies.
European allies wanted the so-called refugee influx! They begged for it. They even try to shame other countries for not wanting it also. They did it to themselves. They say it's immoral to not want millions of immigrants!
US did not create the Venezuela mayhem. The people there voted it in, then realized too late that it was the wrong thing to do. Here in the US there are also goof balls that want socialism and try to act like Venezuela is just an anomaly and not the typical result.
In all of those places the mayhem was not created by the US but instead the US has to go in after it was already started and try to quell it before it gets worse. The US then becomes the policeman for the world. The US gives billions of aid to countries to try to solve these problems. I really wish we would stop and just let them battle it out. Of course if the US did stop policing they would then be criticized for not policing.
Wrap your head around it.
The biggest "news" channel in the US is Fox "news."
How is that the democratic left? It's the propaganda arm of the Republican party.
Hey man, the U.S. is just backing up what CANDA said - that Maduro is not the recognized president.
If you find yourself on the wrong side of Canada, you should be questioning your life-choices.
P.S. if you want to ask about interference, perhaps you should be asking why you are backing the person backed by both Cuba (who sends military and social manipulation advisers to Venezuela) or Russia (same deal, and they support Maduro).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The biggest "news" channel in the US is Fox "news."
How is that the democratic left? It's the propaganda arm of the Republican party.
These days it may be more accurate to say that the Republican Party is the political wing of Fox News.
Here in the US the media is controlled by the democratic left - just as many lies to the people as in Venezuela.
You mean the media that got Trump elected? That "democratic left"?
The media that has put a Republican majority in our local, state and federal governments for 20 years now?
Did you know that the number one cable news channel is Fox News? Are you saying that they are controlled by the "democratic left"?
If you think the US media is "democratic left", I don't want to know what you think is centrist or even right wing.
I bet you think Venezuela is "socialist" too.
We're supposed to listen to the other side, but the other side is so misinformed to the point where their opinions have no basis is reality, all bets are off. I was brought up as a Ford/H.W. Bush Republican, but today's conservatives are just off their fucking rocker to the point of being just kooks.
Maybe, just maybe, this is a mess created by Chavez and further worsened by Maduro.
I know it's popular to blame the US for everything that happens.. but shits been hitting the fan all over the world a lot longer than the US has been in existence.
If the people are being taken care of, I doubt there would be massive demonstrations.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Fox News is a single cable channel that leans right.
Is that a balance against the other major cable news channels of MSNBC and CNN which lean heavy left and left?
Does that also balance out the 3 major OTA commercial news channels (which are also shown on cable) of NBC , CBS and ABC? Those also lean left, some more than others.
You have all these left leaning networks and you bitch about ONE right leaning network in Fox News?
Wow....at least there is one dissenting voice out there....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Of course I support single payer health care, after all as a developer I make enough to afford the supplemental insurance that ensures I will not die if I need to use it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Have a look at the main newspapers. Here is a list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Most private newspaper are against Maduro. They even came to the extreme of asking for an intervention. Look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Plus internet is not blocked in Venezuela. Total bullshit article
In 2009, Noam Chompsky said " “What’s so exciting about at last visiting Venezuela,” the linguist said, is that “I can see how a better world is being created and can speak to the person who’s inspired it.”
In 2017, he says "I never described Chavez's state capitalist government as 'socialist' or even hinted at such an absurdity. It was quite remote from socialism. Private capitalism remained ... Capitalists were free to undermine the economy in all sorts of ways, like massive export of capital."
It's always "I have seen The Future, and It Works", until the megadeaths become impossible to ignore, then "Oh, no, that wasn't real socialism. We need to try real socialism. This time for sure."
That trick never works. Never.
Chile, Contras in Nicaragua, Supporting fascist thug government in Guatemala, Cuba. ... now Venezuela (and I'm sure I missed a few).
USA sort out your own f'**ing mess and stay out of other peoples' countries.
You say you make the world safe for democracy. That's BS, you kill democratically elected governments who don't let you steal resources, or who you have some political disagreement with.
Venezuelan crisis is a creation of US economic sabotage. (embargos, preventing international lending, etc etc) Wikipedia it yourself.
Venezuelan Presidential Elections:
1998 Chavez (Democratic Socialist): 56%
2000 Chavez (Democratic Socialist): 60%
2004 Recall-Chavez-Referendum: No: 58%
2006: Chavez (Democratic Socialist): 63%
2012: Chavez (Democratic Socialist): 55%
2013: Maduro (Democratic Socialist): 50.6%
2018: Maduro (Democratic Socialist): 68%
Summary: The slim majority of people in Venezuela have for 20 years and continue to support the democratic socialist regime in power.
The main CRIME of this government party according to US was nationalizing oil resources. In other words refusing to sit back and just take a few bribes while US oil companies raped the resources and took almost all of the profits.
Current US government can't STAND that there is a democratic socialist government in South America that dares to say that its own people own their natural resources and US does not own it. It's an afront to the US's worldwide modus operandi.
We are seeing the process of the US stealing the Venezuelan oil reserves back from the uppity local socialists.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Only a small percentage are secretly evil.
The rest are pretty open about it.
They are trained to do this and therefore can figure things out much better than you or I can.
You've never heard the media reporting on something you have personal experience with, have you? What's remarkable is the number of people who hear and read what the media write about things they know, and know they've gotten it wrong, but then trust the media to be right about everything else. And now this message that they media knows better than we do about what is right and true.
but he is the democratically elected representative of the nation.
He is no more "democratically elected" than any other tyrant in history.
Which is why CANADA supports the fellow who actually won, and many are calling for an open and monitored election to take place...
As for "probably not a nice chap", turning the bread basket of South America into a hell-hole where there is literally nothing - not clean water, not clean food, not even toilet paper - someone who maid that happen, is the Devil incarnate. He has earned his place with the monsters of history like Stalin or Pol-Pot.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why do you support intervention in foreign countries? How many times in the past 65 years has that actually helped?
Weren't you recently going off on slashdot about how the US has a glorious past punching Nazis in WWII? I'm pretty sure all the Nazis attacked in WWII were on foreign soil.
(Or is this another one of your positions where it's okay, but only if their politics match yours?)
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
People willing and wanting to cover more than one side of an issue. It's ok for reporters to have an angle, if you have lots of different reporters so that pretty much all angles are covered. That is, fake news is a symptom, not a problem. The remedy isn't to quash fake news. The proper remedy is to educate the people so that they're better able to determine for themselves what news is fake and what isn't. Then all you have to do is allow all news reports to get through, and the people can decide for themselves what the truth is.
That's what worries me about the current fervor to stamp out "fake news." While I can appreciate the intent, you're basically taking the the power to judge what constitutes real or fake news away from the people, and handing it to a few people at a company or in the government in charge of deciding what's fake and what's real. Those of you who've never lived through armed repression (i.e. the vast majority of the U.S. population) don't truly understand how precious a free media is. The people in Gwangju burned down one of the TV stations because they weren't doing their job and reporting what was happening. The reporters had been intimidated by the government and feared for their lives if they spoke the truth.
Yes, having a commission or department which decides what constitutes fake news can help. But it can also be horribly abused, with no way for the population to tell that it's being abused to repress legitimate information. The system works best when such repression is made more difficult, not easier. You just have to take upon yourself the harder task of properly educating the population, instead of the quick and dirty solution of a committee to decide which "fake news" should be repressed.
He's the democratically elected representative of the nation.
This is what happens when you boycott elections. Lefties in America stayed home because they didn't like Hilary and that got us Trump. Elections have consequences.
But it's more than that. I'm guessing the opposition party boycotted the election so they could de-legitimize Maduro in preparation for the US to help them over throw the government. Then they'll hand us the oil in exchange for power.
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You will notice I specified "past 65 years". Plus, as you well know, Nazis are a special case. Whenever they appear, it is incumbent on all free peoples to come together to put them down.
Last I heard, there were no goosestep-incarnated Nazis down in Venezuela.
LOL.. You DO realize that South America was a favored place for the Nazi's to flee after WW2 right? I suspect more than one ended up in Venezuela and may still be there. The "Bolivar revelation" of Maduro is not exactly Nazi in name, but it shares many of the same concepts, principles and practice that brought Hitler and his party to power. Largely it's been successful in destroying the economies of most of South America, where socialism took deep root in the poverty ridden societies that once thrived down there. Rich in natural resources, squandered by social programs, no government can effectively spend more than it takes in, without eventually destroying the very economy that feeds it. Poverty and lower standards of living, with rebellion and bloodshed follows like the plague after the scourge of socialism takes root. It's happening in Venezuela right now.
The names may be different, but the results that follow as sure as the sun rises in the east, are the same.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Of course not.
I'm saying that the concepts of socialism behind the rise of power of the Nazis are alive and well, in South America, they just have Spanish and Portuguese names down there. Further these concepts where not unique to pre-WW2 Germany, they didn't originate there nor did they die there. They just keep taking root in poverty and desperate economic conditions, like in Germany (and many times before that), with the promise of a better, more fair way that some then have to force on the masses.
It's what is killing Venezuela and will lead to the bloody revolt that is almost sure to soon come at this point. It's what nearly killed other south American countries in violence and economic collapse.
I've been down there, I can tell you that the poverty they have is like nothing you can imagine if you are from the states. I've seen some BAD places in the back woods of North Carolina, shanty huts with dirt floors at wide places in the road, but those places are heaven compared to the poverty I've seen in South America where row upon row, block on top of block of desperately poor, even in *nice* places like Chilie where the economic conditions are not as bad as some. It's no wonder such ideas catch on down there.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
The further to the left a society goes, the more totalitarian it gets.
Which, when you think about it, is the natural outcome of pushing socialism. At its heart, socialism is the antithesis of human nature. Humans as a group are not altruistic. The average human is concerned about what's in it for them, not whether it benefits some nebulous "other" or society as a whole. It doesn't mean humans are evil. It's the natural instinct for a species to focus on individual survival and that's been bred into us over millions of years. Socialism tells you the individual must sacrifice for the group. People won't do that voluntarily. Capitalism entices people with a risk/reward structure which encourages the individual to work hard for a reward; the benefit to society is a side-effect.
Since people by and large won't do this voluntarily without a defined individual reward -- which is the case under socialism -- they must be coerced into doing it. That requires socialist governments to amass power and repeatedly wield it in every corner of society. It's forcing a round peg into a square hole and will not work for long. It's caused massive suffering everywhere it's been tried with the suffering being in direct proportion to how hard it's been pushed.
The sad part is socialism looks so appealing on paper. Couple that with the apparent lack of awareness of history and you have whole swaths of well-to-do societies clamoring for it. Meanwhile everyone that's ever been under the heel of a socialist government is running away from the concept.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Go look up some of their interviews with AOC where they desperately try to get negative sound bites out of her. Go look up their coverage to the run up of the Iraq war. Go look up their coverage of the 2008 market crash and bail out.
MSNBC & CNN are left of center on social issues (Gay rights, Abortion, general civil rights, etc). They're that way because they're corporatists, and they go with whatever has the least controversy and generates the most money. Gays money spends well, so they're for Gay rights. 70% of americans support Abortion rights, so they're for Abortion rights.
But on anything economic they're right. Hard right. Go read or watch Norm Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent". The mainstream media is _not_ on your side.
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