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Ask Slashdot: Is It Ethical To Purchase Electronics Products Made In China?
dryriver writes: A lot of people seem to think it's O.K. to buy electronics made in China. We get to buy products considerably cheaper than we otherwise would, and China by all accounts is growing, developing, and modernizing as a nation due to all the cool stuff they now make for the world. There is only one problem with that reasoning. 21st Century China has an atrocious human rights record, and almost all human rights watchdogs report that China is becoming more and more repressive each year. Freedom House put it this way in 2018: "It's worth noting that, in its attitude toward political dissent, the Chinese Communist Party has proven much harsher than the old Soviet regime of the Brezhnev era. Modern Chinese sentences are longer, the prospects for early release are far worse, and the Chinese authorities are generally unmoved by pleas for leniency from foreign diplomats." Basically, consumer dollars from around the world are not gradually creating a gentler, freer, more prosperous and more modern China at all. They are making the Chinese Communist Party richer, stronger, bolder and more aggressive and repressive in every respect. To the question: knowing what the human rights situation is in China, and that consumer dollars and euros flowing into the country from abroad is making things worse, not better, is it at all ethical to buy electronics or IT products manufactured in China?
The US is the #2 manufacturing nation on the planet.
Manufacturing as a percentage of GDP has remained the same for the last 50 years. We shifted from labor intensive to capital intensive manufacturing. Automation has lowered the number of jobs in this sector. America is still a manufacturing powerhouse.
What is the proposed solution? Ban imports from China? Is THAT "ethical"? Drive prices up so high on products that poorer people here can't afford to buy anything? Is THAT "ethical"?
I think the answer is to place tariffs on goods from other nations based on how workers are treated in those countries. If it's legal and/or permitted to pay them slave wages, we should put sufficient tariffs on the products that it's not economically beneficial to pay them slave wages. If they get something in between that and an actual living wage, then the tariff should be somewhere in between, too.
It's not a perfect solution because that alone will actually encourage some employers to pay slave wages, but it's not really feasible to place those tariffs on a per-corporation basis, and the goal is to put pressure on the governments.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
By European/Canadian standards you make the same argument that it is unethical to purchase products from the US where workers are paid below-poverty wages, may not have access to health care and can be fired for disagreeing politically with their employer, plus some types of torture are deemed ok etc. So should we all stop buying each other's products or should we accept that the best way to change another's opinion is through leading by example and discussion rather than by refusing to talk/trade with them?
I'm willing to bet you bought a lot more Made in America products than you think...
Did you buy gas for your car?
Did you or your office buy you some post-it notes?
Have you bought any medications lately?
Do you use Gillette razors?
Drink any cheap beer lately?
Plan on buying a Hallmark card for Valentine's day?
Buy a car in the last 5 years?
And this is just the kind of day-to-day products you'd probably run into. We *export* over $125 billion in machinery alone....
Show me on the 1st Amendment bobblehead where the moderator touched you...
You mean the same China who is putting people of certain religions in re-education camps, and who is sacking captured territories? The same China that uses people for medical research... or just sells their organs on the market? The same China making military fortifications as a way to harass ships and claim territory that isn't theirs?
Sorry. I won't buy Chinese if I can help it. It can mean one less missile aimed at my kids, one less bullet aimed at a Western soldier. I refuse to support a totalitarian government which would commit (and has commited) genocide of Japan and the surrounding PacRim region, given the chance.
If you are Han, keep your social credit score high, and toe the line, you will do decently in China. If you are not of the "master race", your fate will be way different on the mainland.
Well, the cars sold in the US are typically made from parts coming from several countries, with components assembled in several countries, and generally only final assembly counting as to which country it is made in. Some Japanese cars are mostly made in the US or even have final assembly in the US.
My experience at companies that make products is that very often overseas contract manufacturers are used when there are lots of them to be made, but local US manufacturers are used to make small lots of products such as for early testing or limited runs. And then there's often some sort of local in-house manufacturing step, such as final assembly, installation of software, customization, etc. The US manufacturers are convenient because they're close and you can easily visit them when there's a problem or you need a quick turnaround, but the cost is significantly higher.
Often the difference isn't necessarily about labor costs. Most of these manufacturers are automated and most of the labor comes from setting things up. The traditional assembly line that wants an unskilled worker is relatively rare.
Japan hasn't been relevant in high end audio for a few decades. Outside of Chord and Meridian, there is nothing from Britain. Germany has Burmester, and that's about it High end is YG, Magico, Von Schweikert, D'Augustino, Krell, Ayre, Cary, Manley, and many, many more - and they are US based. Go to a high end audio show like Rock Mountain AudioFest, or AXPONA and check it out...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I know well the story of our Navy, the Marines, and the history and traditions embodied in the Marine Corps Hymn.
But how that relates to the assertion that "regardless of color or ethnicity, not a single one of us is without an ancestor who was a slave." escapes me.
Now, if you're wondering how it was that our nation, the United States of America, found itself battling Muslim pirates so early in our history, consider that this was a response to the restraint of trade imposed by the Barbary Pirates on so many nations, the inability of so many of those other nations to take the measures necessary to respond and re-establish free passage on the seas, and our need to trade cotton, slave-harvested, with Europe.
Sound familiar? It ought to.
At that time Europe was still battling the results of Muslim invasions, and feared antagonizing the Empire, which could not be good for them. Europe was also mired in their incessant internecine squabbles, especially at the time Western Europe, with colonization fever at the highest pitch. The French Revolution would not help this region. American influence was welcomed, tacitly, as we took the initiative, secured by our ocean border, and assumed our ongoing role as the world's policemen of (mostly) last resort. To this day our Navy has, as its primary mission, defense of the free flow of goods over the seas, for all nations. And we still find opposition to that free passage, don't we? Not just the Somali pirates, either...
The Ottoman Empire, while by some measures decrepit in the end, wasn't disbanded that long ago, My mother would have been born before that. World War Two finally finished it off, and set off an era of Middle East unrest, with the entirely predictable consequences. The end of the 'Cold War' permitted Eastern European conflicts to reoccur, similarly predictable. And in all this, the militant Muslims are still looking to expand their control and dominance, not just in the Middle East, but to Europe and beyond. Not much has changed since the Crusades, it seems.
And Europe finds itself in the midst of another invasion. So also are we now facing an invasion. And a revolution-in-the-making. A revolution coming, and one inspired by the same philosophies and intentions as so many in this era. We have choices to make, and soon.
But the assertion, again, that "regardless of color or ethnicity, not a single one of us is without an ancestor who was a slave." is nearly specious. You have to go back, in my family tree, to the beginnings of Albion, and possibly before. What difference, at this point, does it make?
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.