Ask Slashdot: Is It Ethical To Purchase Electronics Products Made In China?

dryriver writes: A lot of people seem to think it's O.K. to buy electronics made in China. We get to buy products considerably cheaper than we otherwise would, and China by all accounts is growing, developing, and modernizing as a nation due to all the cool stuff they now make for the world. There is only one problem with that reasoning. 21st Century China has an atrocious human rights record, and almost all human rights watchdogs report that China is becoming more and more repressive each year. Freedom House put it this way in 2018: "It's worth noting that, in its attitude toward political dissent, the Chinese Communist Party has proven much harsher than the old Soviet regime of the Brezhnev era. Modern Chinese sentences are longer, the prospects for early release are far worse, and the Chinese authorities are generally unmoved by pleas for leniency from foreign diplomats." Basically, consumer dollars from around the world are not gradually creating a gentler, freer, more prosperous and more modern China at all. They are making the Chinese Communist Party richer, stronger, bolder and more aggressive and repressive in every respect. To the question: knowing what the human rights situation is in China, and that consumer dollars and euros flowing into the country from abroad is making things worse, not better, is it at all ethical to buy electronics or IT products manufactured in China?

Comments

Right

[aleck7]

20 years late question.

Re:Right

[lgw]

The context has also changed a lot.

It used to be believed by reasonable people that communism and capitalism were fundamentally incompatible, and tat capitalism brought democracy along with it. History justified those beliefs, at the time. Sending business to China was seen as a way to subvert the communist/totalitarian system by injecting capitalism.

However, China has proven that a totalitarian communist system can incorporate a lot of capitalism and just keep on oppressing. I think that changes the answer, at least for some of us.

Of course, there's also the question of the ethics of globalism vs protectionism, but that's not specific to China.

Re:Right

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. But it's even worse than that. The question as posed doesn't make sense. Quoth the submitter:

that consumer dollars and euros flowing into the country from abroad is making things worse, not better

How on earth do you possibly know that? You have access to a parallel universe where China didn't become an electronics manufacturing center? Perhaps you have a delorean? How on earth can you possibly claim to know that Western consumer dollars are making things worse not better?

You're probably looking at all the fancy shmancy tech Western dollars support - great firewalls, social credit scores, surveillance and tracking technology, etc. What about the flip side - the rising Chinese middle class? The people getting jobs with Chinese electronics giants? I don't mean the manufacturers like Foxconn... more firms like Huwai, Xiaomi, ZTE, etc. Even the Foxconns, as bad as they are, may be a better alternative to rural farm life for unskilled workers. Tens of millions died in Chinese famines not that long ago.

So you have a few hundred thousand people who get jailed and treated inhumanely, versus hundreds of millions moving into a vaguely middle class lifestyle. How do you weigh the social utility of that tradeoff and unflinchingly conclude that it's negative? How do you assume an authoritarian regime isn't what most people in China want, regardless of how abhorrent it is to Western cultures?

Nation building doesn't work. Colonialism doesn't work. Mercantilism doesn't work. Of all the choices available, trade and economic prosperity seems by far the best choice. Even if it doesn't bring Western culture with it.

Let the Chinese people deal with the Chinese government. Keep your nose in your own business.

"ethical"?

[markdavis]

>"Is It Ethical To Purchase Electronics Products Made In China?"

Here are some reply questions: Do we even have a choice? Exactly what can I buy that isn't made in China? What is the proposed solution? Ban imports from China? Is THAT "ethical"? Drive prices up so high on products that poorer people here can't afford to buy anything? Is THAT "ethical"? Is it "ethical" to try and interfere with another sovereign nation's political and operational process? Even if we restricted trade based on "ethicality", how effective would that be? (We are far from their only market) And how much influence would we THEN have? Is there some difference between electronics/IT and any other products we buy from China? (Other than perhaps spyware, which has nothing to do with human rights inside THEIR borders).

Wrong question.

[YukariHirai]

For huge numbers of end consumers, there's not much choice. With wage stagnation and general costs of living generally increasing, the cheap Chinese-made thing is all they can afford. If there even is an option made somewhere else. Assuming the other options aren't made by companies being just as exploitative.

The real question should be, "is it ethical for corporations to outsource all their manufacturing to China?"

Re:The luxury of asking that question..

[zlives]

isn't that part of the question, do you try to buy local/US made?
i do but its not always available even at a higher cost. and cost is part of the real equation. Not every one has the luxury to search for American made products, even the ones that are just packaged here.
can't talk about manufactured in China without talking about job loss or income inequality.
we must buy cheap because we can't afford anything more.

recent change

[hdyoung]

Up until fairly recently, the strategy worked. We allowed them into the world of modern trade and commerce and bought their stuff. Overall, the country became more open and more modern. The strategy helped to pull about half a billion people out of poverty. Yes, we had to tolerate a highly flawed Chinese government with a bad human rights record and a lot of dodgy Chinese business practices, but nothing worse than we've tolerated from a dozen other countries we regularly do business with. Overall, the benefits were enormous.

Then something changed. China started backsliding. The most obvious symptom of this is Xi Jingping, who has actively pulled the country back towards autocracy, but there's a long list of things that suggest our "do business with them and they'll improve" strategy isn't working any more. A lot of foreign policy types are concluding that a change is needed. I've read that even most pro-Chinese economists in the West have concluded that China is sliding backwards. The carrot isn't working any more, so governments are trying a bit of stick instead. They're not going to have much luck expanding their overseas businesses for the next decade or two.