Right To Repair Legislation Is Officially Being Considered In Canada (vice.com)

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Right To Repair Legislation Is Officially Being Considered In Canada (vice.com)

Posted by msmash on Thursday February 21, 2019 @08:11AM from the newest-frontier dept.

Canada is the newest frontier in the fight for the "right to repair" after an Ontario politician introduced a bill on Thursday that would ensure individuals and independent professionals can repair brand-name computers and phones cheaply and easily. From a report: Manufacturers make it incredibly difficult to repair our broken devices ourselves. Instead of taking a smashed phone to a local repair professional for an affordable fix, a complex matrix of trade secrets and government intervention often means consumers have to make a pricey trip to the Genius Bar or buy a new device entirely. This is bad for your wallet, but also bad for the planet.

Ontario Liberal Party MPP Michael Coteau ran into this issue head-first after his daughter dropped his Samsung smartphone. An official repair job from the manufacturer was more expensive than just getting a new phone from his carrier, he told me over the phone. "It's a shame," Coteau said, "because the Samsung S8 was very good for me. Everything was perfect. I would've kept using it. But now I've replaced it." On Thursday, Coteau introduced a private member's bill in provincial parliament that, if passed, would be the first "right to repair" law for electronic devices in North America. More than a dozen US states are currently considering similar bills, but nothing is on the books yet in the US or in Canada.

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Let's try baby steps by Snotnose · 2019-02-21 08:13 · Score: 1

Require an easily replaceable battery and go from there.
1. Re: Let's try baby steps by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:16 · Score: 0
  
  Right to repair not the same as choosing to repair. Donâ(TM)t forget there are repairs nobody would ever attempt in a million years. Other than cases where there is kind of a stupid reason not to allow self repair. If so, this creates a new market where some other party can repair this old phone.
2. Re:Let's try baby steps by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:17 · Score: 0
  
  Require an easily replaceable battery and go from there.
  This is like, racism, right there. Why are you such a bigot?
3. Re:Let's try baby steps by DickBreath · 2019-02-21 08:19 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  The Samsung Galaxy S5 had:
  * removable back, which covered a . . .
  * replaceable battery
  * SIM card
  * SD card
  * A headphone jack (how cowardly compared to Apple's "courage")
  
  BUT . . .it was also WATERPROOF. There are YouTube videos of people taking their S5 phone swimming, shooting video underwater with it, and coming up to the surface. A video of someone washing their S5 in a front loading washer with the screen locked to the on position so you could see the well lit up phone during the entire washing.
  
  Wow. A phone that was waterproof, with headphone jack and replaceable battery. Somehow we no longer have the technical capability to build that combination of features in a phone.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
4. Re:Let's try baby steps by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:46 · Score: 0
  
  Sadly it also has a design flaw the limits the lifetime due to the cable connecting the screen not making a good connection.
5. Re:Let's try baby steps by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:50 · Score: 0
  
  "cowardly "
  Jebus but you autistic fucks really don't understand how multinationals work, do you? They don't give a crap about human emotions they just care that they shaved however many cents off their overhead.
  And then useful idiots like you come along whining about something completely irrelevant. Apple sure does appreciate your unpaid service though.
6. Re:Let's try baby steps by thereddaikon · 2019-02-21 09:02 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  English must not be your first language. He was mocking Apple's self described "courage" when they removed the headphone jack from the iPhone.
7. Re:Let's try baby steps by tlhIngan · 2019-02-21 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  Require an easily replaceable battery and go from there.
  And how do you define "easily replaceable"? Because even iPhones are easy to replace the battery with. Granted, not every drooling idiot with a butter knife as a screw driver can replace it, but if you're reasonably competent, you can do it. Given every shopping mall has at least one cellphone repair shop, it doesn't seem like a hard problem either.
  And given the drooling idiot's tool of preference, well, it's probably a good thing they're not stabbing batteries to replace them.
8. Re:Let's try baby steps by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 11:23 · Score: 0
  
  There is no good reason to need tools at all. Pop the back cover off, pop the battery out, replace both. Until the last couple models of most devices, this was how it was done and it was only Apple being difficult.
9. Re: Let's try baby steps by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 21:32 · Score: 0
  
  There should be no banned self repairs, if it's something mission critical, maybe require 3rd party recertification. But if I'm capable of fixing an MRI without being licensed, why shouldn't I? So long as it's verified as functioning safely before use with people or animals. There is no danger in repairing itself. But suggesting people don't is OK.
10. Re:Let's try baby steps by gweihir · 2019-02-21 22:35 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. In fact, I consider a not easily replaced battery a severe design defect and will not buy, but many people do not really understand what they are getting into by not insisting.
  
  --
  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
11. Re:Let's try baby steps by Rhipf · 2019-02-22 03:32 · Score: 1
  
  It isn't hard to replace an Apple phone battery but it is a pain in the ... to get the damn thing out. Is there really any need to use such a strong adhesive to hold the battery in place? There is a back cover on the phone after all. Shouldn't that be enough to keep the battery in place?
12. Re: Let's try baby steps by david_thornley · 2019-02-22 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  There should be no banned self repairs,
  
  If you're my neighbor, I'd really appreciate it if you wouldn't try to make major repairs to your natural gas lines. Finding that it's functioning unsafely could cause me serious problems.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
13. Re:Let's try baby steps by david_thornley · 2019-02-22 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  I have an iPhone 5S, bought shortly after it came out. It's about five and a half years old now. The battery works well. If I have to get the battery changed, and want Apple to do it, it's under $100. That's less than $20/year, far less than I pay for connectivity.
  So, yes, I understood what I was getting into. I fully expected to have to get a new battery before this, and I was aware of the cost. My only misunderstanding was that I expected it to be more cost and hassle than it actually was.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
14. Re:Let's try baby steps by DickBreath · 2019-02-22 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  You miss the point. I'm not saying it was perfect. I'm saying that today's phones should be waterproof, have removable batteries, gaskets protecting SIM and SD cards, and also have a headphone jack.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
15. Re:Let's try baby steps by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-27 23:39 · Score: 0
  
  Buying an Android is a bigger defect, a security one.
  Enjoy your pain.
Whew by fat+man's+underwear · 2019-02-21 08:18 · Score: 1

My side-business repairing Commodore Plus 4s and Atari Falcons is safe!
1. Re:Whew by Seven+Spirals · 2019-02-21 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  I hope you aren't joking but I sense that you probably are. There is a growing retro scene out there and a number of folks who do board-level repair on C64, Amigas, STs, you name it... I personally don't think it's funny at all and I've used their services to do things like VRU or capacitor replacements many times.. I think it's awesome. I'm much excited about someone being able to repair fun & reusable "old" retro tech rather than the privacy invading garbage "intellectual property" of software megacorps and sue-happy hardware griefers who've brought us throw-away "app stores" and hardware that won't last longer than 5 years.
2. Re:Whew by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 09:34 · Score: 0
  
  ... and hardware that won't last longer than 5 years.
  The hardware lasts for as long as you care to look after it. The limiting factor is the lack of security fixes supplied by vendors, which is about 3-5 years from the best offerings, but likely 0 days for the majority of Android offerings. Despite Google allegedly clamping down on this bad behavior.
3. Re:Whew by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 09:49 · Score: 0
  
  ... and hardware that won't last longer than 5 years.
  The hardware lasts for as long as you care to look after it. The limiting factor is the lack of security fixes supplied by vendors,
  golly does that mean we can't use our old commodore 64s?
4. Re:Whew by Seven+Spirals · 2019-02-21 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  Bullshit. "Security fixes" aren't the only solution to security problems that crop up. Ring fencing, firewalling, byte patching, and many other mitigation strategies exist for security issues. One of which is simply "don't use the thing that's vulnerable." Another would be "replace the software with an open source alternative." Coward, you are very narrow minded if you think waiting like sheeple for "The Almighty Vendor" to come to your rescue for money, you might be sorely disappointed. They don't have the best history of giving a fuck. But yeah, for hyper-conformists who want to run the absolute most mainstream spyware garbage (read: Android && iOS) they can find then you are pretty much depending on the paternal vendor to come save you. How's that shit been working out so far bruh? Also you are dumber than most cowards if you think sealing the fucking battery or otherwise making the hardware difficult to service doesn't destroy the lifespan of the device for most people. Sadly, you aren't alone, though. A lot of other 12 year olds feel the same way.
Cue the lobbiests by ilsaloving · 2019-02-21 08:20 · Score: 1

I imagine that there is now going to be a massive uproar because this kind of legislation is a very very scary thing to corporations who have gotten used to gouging their customers.
I don't have much faith it'll pass though, considering there is a conservative majority.
1. Re:Cue the lobbiests by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:46 · Score: 0
  
  I see this legislation going over well with the farm equipment and auto manufacturers who are probably the intended targets of it anyway, the cell phones is mentioned just to pique the interest of places like /.
2. Re:Cue the lobbiests by dryeo · 2019-02-21 09:10 · Score: 2
  
  It's a private bill by the opposition, doesn't matter what is in it, it isn't going anywhere in Ontario and everyone knows this.
  
  --
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
3. Re:Cue the lobbiests by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 09:39 · Score: 0
  
  It's the Federal government as well as it aligns with the current state government. I don't see it getting shelved.
4. Re:Cue the lobbiests by green1 · 2019-02-21 10:23 · Score: 1
  
  going over well? I hope that was sarcasm. John Deere is probably the leading lobbyist against right to repair. So I doubt they'll find friends in the farm equipment industry. As for cars. Try to repair your own Tesla and get back to me. They'll fight you tooth and nail on that one.
You do have the right. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:22 · Score: 0

You have the right to choose to purchase a device that you can repair.
If you choose to purchase a device that you cannot repair, then that's your right, too.
Get it yet?
1. Re:You do have the right. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:29 · Score: 0
  
  You have the right to shut up about shit you are not able to grasp, get it?
2. Re:You do have the right. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:51 · Score: 0
  
  the planet is 'getting it'.. right in the ballsack.
  billions of discarded devices and billions of new product to replace them is helping to kill the environment in which we live.
US and Canada only? by jpaine619 · 2019-02-21 08:35 · Score: 0

I'd like to point out that the US and Canada are not the only countries in North America... There are 23 sovereign nations in North America. Did the author check to see if none of these countries have right to repair laws? I highly doubt it...
1. Re:US and Canada only? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:37 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry but shit holes don't count.
2. Re:US and Canada only? by mark-t · 2019-02-21 08:56 · Score: 2
  
  Pot, meet kettle.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Private Members Bills Never Pass by Bradmont · 2019-02-21 08:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

In Canadian politics, private members bills (bills presented by an individual representative rather than the party in power) almost never get passed. This one is doubly unlikely as it was proposed by an MPP of an opposition party, under the majority government of a right-wing, pro-business, quasi-populist premier.

So, move along, nothing to see here. It's not going to happen.
1. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by mark-t · 2019-02-21 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  While the Conservative party might be pro-business, as you say, it is still ultimately made up of individuals that may individually see the merit behind such legislation. Since the Conservative party typically permits its members to vote with their conscience, rather than according to any official line set by the party leaders, I would give this legislation better odds than 50-50 of going through.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
2. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by dryeo · 2019-02-21 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  Came to say the same thing. I will add that if popular enough, similar bills might be introduced in other Provinces by the ruling party, or in the case of a minority government such as in BC, the two opposition parties could actually pass it.
  
  --
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
3. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by Bradmont · 2019-02-21 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  I am inclined to argue with you, but really, I hope you're right, this would be a great step (even if I'm not in Ontario, it may spill over provincial lines). Still, the cynic in me is convinced that anything that makes sense is going to get screwed up by parliament...
4. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by green1 · 2019-02-21 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  Members voting not along party lines? In Canada? Where have you been for the past couple of decades? That simply doesn't happen. Ever.
  
  Sure, it used to, but not anymore. At this point, a majority government is really a government by one person. The Premier/Prime Minister. They tell their party how to vote on every issue, and that's what happens. Really we should simply eliminate all the individual members and their offices and save money. They aren't allowed to represent their constituents anyway.
5. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 11:16 · Score: 0
  
  Also came to say the same thing. The party of the member doesn't matter either. The PMBs that get through are apple pie, happy confirmations, or meaningless labelling of a date or location. There is maybe a 1 in 1000 exception to that rule.
6. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by mark-t · 2019-02-21 11:30 · Score: 1
  
  Members voting not along party lines? In Canada? Where have you been for the past couple of decades? That simply doesn't happen. Ever.
  Sure it does. You simply haven't been paying attention if you think otherwise.
  Not all parties advocate free votes, but the Conservatives in Ontario definitely do. Officially, their position reads as "The only whipped vote will be on the budget. Otherwise MPPs will always be allowed free votes."
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
7. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by diodeus · 2019-02-21 11:35 · Score: 1
  
  Bradmont, you are so correct that this shouldn't even be a news story.
8. Re: Private Members Bills Never Pass by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 14:27 · Score: 0
  
  ford is a full on populist.
  he voted to spend more money ripping out bike lanes than they cost to install
  his efforts to reform hydro one cost us $100,000,000 and any credibility as capitalists and a rebuke from idaho and Washington
  his buck a beer pitch screwed over ontarian beer makers and promoted foreign breweries
  the list of idiocy goes on
9. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by Mashiki · 2019-02-21 15:55 · Score: 2
  
  That's not really true. Private members bills pass often enough in legislatures across Canada, the reason you don't think they do is because most often those private members bills are party-centric policy actions that the aligned party doesn't want to tie their name to for whatever reason. Keep that after ~15 years of the Liberal Party of Ontario being anti-business, pro-business killing regulations, pro-tax the hell out of everybody, and screw you peasants you'll like the $0.18kWh electricity rates, and FT jobs? You'll like your PT service industry jobs. There's a good reason why people elected a pro-business government that's quasi-populist, that believes that industry and FT jobs aren't evil.
  But if you haven't really been paying attention to politics in Ontario, so far Ford and the conservatives have stuck pretty hard to their platform of helping people in Ontario. So the chances of this making into law are higher then average, but keep in mind that the bill itself will have to goto committee too. Ontario has a lot of things wrong with it, and I mean a lot. The liberals went out of their way to fuck up everything they could to pander to Toronto while screwing the rest of the province over.
  And just a FYI for those that want to really get into the political corruption, money laundering and whatnot. You might have heard about the SNC-Laval corruption scandal currently running the federal Liberal Party of Canada hard. Well just go take a look at G.M. Butts, he's the same guy who was behind McGuinty(Ontario premier liberals) and Wynne's(same as McGuinty) political ideas. Enjoy the shitshow, because it gets more interesting when Canada was bared from all federal US infrastructure building, and a few days after that happened the Globe and Mail were the ones breaking the SNC-Laval scandal open.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
10. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by green1 · 2019-02-21 16:06 · Score: 1
  
  is it a real policy, or a PR policy? have you looked at the voting record? how often do members exercise that right? I bet you'll find almost all votes are still right along party lines.
11. Re:Private Members Bills Never Pass by mark-t · 2019-02-21 18:28 · Score: 1
  
  It often can be the case that people who ally with a particular party tend towards the views of the party, so even a free vote can reflect party values.
  However, as I said, the matter of right to repair is an issue that spans party lines. Anyone, regardless of political affiliation, has the potential to be adversely affected by corporate abuse in these regards, and there is a not insigificant chance that even many Conservative party members may have personally felt its sting, as this Liberal MPP did, so I'd not be at all surprised if this passes.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
narcissists galore by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 08:41 · Score: 0

Require an easily replaceable battery and go from there.
who the fuck cares about your phone, this is about farmers' ability to repair the equipment they need to grow our food
LG V20 Phone for a super fixable by foxalopex · 2019-02-21 09:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

I went through a huge mess to find a properly working LG V20 and from everything I've read it was one of the last and fastest fixable phones. It features a replacable battery, sim and microSD slots. It was held together by about 22 regular micro screws and nothing was permo glued causing Ifixit to jokingly say V stands for "Very Repairable". I hope it lasts a long time compared to the epic glued together phones of today.
1. Re:LG V20 Phone for a super fixable by dunkelfalke · 2019-02-21 18:01 · Score: 2
  
  Glue is not a big deal. Affordable replacement parts are.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Maybe a different approach? by jbmartin6 · 2019-02-21 09:14 · Score: 2

How about instead of "right to repair" they just make restrictive covenants on consumer goods like this unenforceable? Let's get rid of the 'you are just licensing it' crap altogether.

--
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
1. Re:Maybe a different approach? by Hillie · 2019-02-21 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  Amen.
  
  --
  - Alex
2. Re:Maybe a different approach? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 10:45 · Score: 0
  
  Restrictive Covenants that are not disclosed before sale and that are not part of the conditional sales contract are unenforceable...
Ownership used to be a natural right. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 09:28 · Score: 0

Never buy/use a product that has loyalties to its manufacturer over you.
There may not be a purely legislative fix other than that.
1. Re:Ownership used to be a natural right. by green1 · 2019-02-21 10:29 · Score: 1
  
  So never buy anything with a computer chip in it. You have to go without any consumer electronics, and without any vehicle.
  
  Sorry, not willing to go that far.
Beautiful! by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 09:37 · Score: 0

This is exactly how we get good laws.
1. Re: Beautiful! by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 09:55 · Score: 0
  
  Now anyone can fix our politician's mistakes
Right to Ownership is better by Hillie · 2019-02-21 09:59 · Score: 2

This is the problem when governments start to get bigger than the "protect the citizens' rights" limit that they should be.
Government starts to introduce laws that cater to large corporations that say "We can prosecute you for repairing stuff yourself" that is a violation of trade.
Once I pay you over a thousand dollars for something I should be able to do with it as I wish. That is ownership.
All of this started with the DCMA and we all warned this would happen and of course we were all called paranoid.
Make a simple law that states that once a consumer buys a product from that company the company cannot in any way shape or form do anything that would impede the consumer's freedom over use of that product, and not limited to but including, and then put every single possible use case and then extend it infinitely.
Of course this is a problem because governments have hyperextended their reach into consumers' lives beyond hat they should be allowed to do.

--
- Alex
1. Re:Right to Ownership is better by green1 · 2019-02-21 10:36 · Score: 0
  
  Someone at some time decided that software and hardware would not be treated equally. That's where it all fell apart. And only because people deliberately chose not to understand what software is.
  
  If I buy hardware, I'm allowed to do anything I want with it. It's mine. But if I buy something with software on it, it's NOT mine, and I can't do what I want with it. Suddenly companies can revoke all your rights just by implementing a feature in software instead of hardware. Of course almost everything these days is software, so as a result, almost nothing is actually yours anymore.
  
  Never should the implementation have mattered. I don't care if my toaster has a spring and gears to time the toast, or if it has a microcontroller and an operating system. I just want it to work. There's no reason why I should be allowed to fix and modify the former, while being prevented from even looking at the latter. There's fundamentally no difference between a hardware feature and a software feature except because lawmakers decreed it to be so. It's the old joke of everything being brand new if it's "on a computer" or "on the internet", that doesn't make it new, it's just presented differently, and no new laws should have been required to deal with it.
2. Re:Right to Ownership is better by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 11:05 · Score: 0
  
  DMCA has no applicability in Canada. It is a US piece of shit only applicable in Ameritardland.
  Once you "buy" a product, in Canada, that product is yours to do with as you please. No covenant or restriction or "fine print" of the manufacturer or seller is valid unless (a) it was disclosed prior to the sale and (b) that condition forms part of the *signed* conditional sales agreement. No conditional sales agreement under seal, then no conditions. Easy peasy. (For those of you that are having difficulty, that means that if you buy something at a store and you do not sign a contract, ownership has 100% unconditionally passed to you and you may do as you please with no restriction possible with the thing that you now own, and that all "fine print", embeded shrink-wrap agreements, "this bit here is the property of the seller" are null and invalid -- unless those conditions form part of the agreement signed by both the seller and the purchaser at the time of sale).
  Just cuz a bunch of Ameritards do stupid shit does not mean that anyone else does that same stupid shit.
3. Re: Right to Ownership is better by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 12:40 · Score: 0
  
  The US it totally 'owned' by corporate interests. They give us racist presidents and legislators to keep us occupied and looking the other way while they rob us blind.
Re:Socialism & Secularism by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-21 16:58 · Score: 1

How many times do people need to be told.?
Venezuela's PRIMARY problem is corruption, not socialism. It also happens that the USA's greatest problem is corruption, not capitalism.
Nice try, but... by jenningsthecat · 2019-02-22 03:31 · Score: 1

As a life-long Ontario resident I can tell you that with the Conservative party in power here and enjoying a solid majority, this bill has precisely zero chance of becoming law. Especially given the knuckle-dragging fuckwit we have as our provincial Premier. After all, Doug Ford is the guy who cut funding to student unions and justified it by saying "I think we all know what kind of crazy Marxist nonsense student unions get up to".

--
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Already exists in Australia by Anonymous Coward · 2019-02-22 19:09 · Score: 0

Weâ(TM)ve had it for decades!