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Netflix May Be Losing $192 Million Per Month From Piracy, Study Claims (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: As many as 1 in 5 people today are mooching off of someone else's account when streaming video from Netflix, Hulu or Amazon Video, according to a new study from CordCutting.com. Of these, Netflix tends to be pirated for the longest period -- 26 months, compared with 16 months for Amazon Prime Video or 11 months for Hulu. That could be because Netflix freeloaders often mooch off their family instead of a friend -- 48 percent use their parents' login, while another 14 percent use their sister or brother's credentials, the firm found. At a base price of $7.99 per month (the study was performed before Netflix's January 2019 price increase), freeloading users could save $207.74 over a 26-month period. At scale, these losses can add up, the study claims.

The report estimates Netflix could be losing $192 million in monthly revenue from piracy -- more than either Amazon or Hulu, at $45 million per month and $40 million per month, respectively. Millennials, not surprisingly, account for much of the freeloading. They're the largest demographic pirating Netflix (18 percent) and Hulu's service (20 percent). But oddly, it was Baby Boomers who were more likely to borrow someone else's account to access Amazon Prime Video. According to the study, 59.3 percent said they would pay for Netflix (or around 14 million people), contributing at least $112 million in monthly revenue, if they lost access. And 37.8 percent, or 2 million, said they'd pay for Hulu; 27.6 percent, or 1 million people, said they'd pay for Prime Video.

23 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. Again this rubish? by LavouraArcaica · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Again this bulshit-study where it is assumed that every pirated-material would be purchased if piracy wouldn't be on the table?

    That's so 90's...

    1. Re: Again this rubish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In addition to that, by what bullshit definition is watching something owned by a friend or family member considered piracy?

      I agree, this study is utter rubbish.

    2. Re:Again this rubish? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is the same bullshit when people say New York lost 25,000 jobs because they didn't want to subsidize Amazon. The jobs were never created so nothing was lost.

      Just like these people would never have paid for the content so nothing is lost, right?

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    3. Re: Again this rubish? by Andtalath · · Score: 3, Informative

      1-4 number of screens at the same time, depending on how much you pay (you also get higher res the more you pay).
      At least in Sweden.

      They are supposed to be used in the same household though, which is the thing which is generally seen as mooching when families whom have moved apart still use only one login.

    4. Re: Again this rubish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What about people with multiple homes? I pay for my childrenâ(TM)s education. As far as I am concerned I have a house, a dorm room, and an apartment.

    5. Re:Again this rubish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      No! You don't understand! Netflix is a victim. A VICTIM!

      See, they used the word "Piracy". That means people are STEALING.
      Don't you understand? This is a CRIME!

      It's a CRIME. These people, who are basically watching a show over someone's shoulder, are CRIMINALS.

      Prosecute them! Take away their money! Make them pay!

      Or, you know, just scare them so about 20% will stop doing it out of some sort of latent fear of repercussion from some vague authority.

    6. Re: Again this rubish? by azcoyote · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, and if I remember correctly, Netflix actually encouraged sharing at least at one time, and simply set limits on simultaneous streams. So if Netflix has allowed it, then in no way can it be considered piracy.

      --
      Incipiamus, fratres, servire Domino Deo, quia hucusque vix vel parum in nullo profecimus.
    7. Re:Again this rubish? by pr0fessor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Netflix doesn't just charge by account but also each tear of service has a different number of max streams 2 for the standard account and 4 for the premium. It's not really piracy if someone is paying extra for more streams?

       

    8. Re:Again this rubish? by Junta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is true and should be recognized.

      Of course self-reporting is likely to be incorrect:
      -When it's purely academic, you assume yes, but then you actually look at your budget or perhaps notice that Hulu is cheaper, maybe you don't get netfilx
      -A policy change to clamp down on moochers creates negative PR, souring people's opinion of netflix
      -There are probably some people that don't care about Netflix that much, but still pay for it because they have a friend/family member mooching and it's worth the small amount of money to not inconvenience that friend/family member. So there may be some losses of those not surveyed.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    9. Re: Again this rubish? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The friend doesn't own the content, he merely has a subscription to stream it. And I bet the terms & conditions have something to say about when and where sharing that stream is allowed; generally that only includes members of one household, or a limited number of devices. That's not an unreasonable limitation.

      I can see both sides of this.

      I mean, in the old days of VHS, if I leant my friend my VHS cassette, you would be hard pressed to say that he was "stealing the content."

      On the other hand, some people stream Netflix for free because they can; some would probably pay for subscription, others probably wouldn't. My wife lets her mother watch Netflix on our account, her mother is well off and probably wouldn't think twice about paying for her own subscription if she couldn't use ours for free.

      It is a grey area, and anyone who says it is "definitely piracy" or "definitely not piracy" is over simplifying. No one would say that a parent couldn't let their child use their account. What about when they're at a friend's house; or off to college... where do you draw the line.

      Overall, I see this as not an issue for the courts but an issue for Netflix themselves. They already limit lines. We get two, so, if we're watching and the mother in law is watching no one else can. Netflix makes you pay for lines, so they can restrict you from going crazy and sharing with everyone you know. They might in the future use a technical solution to fix this.

      "2 lines at a time" - but only if being channeled through the same router. They can cut off the grey area by policing it better themselves... but will customers be OK with that?

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    10. Re:Again this rubish? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Netflix made 16 billion in profit last year. I wish that I could be "victimized" like that.

      Playing devil's advocate; this is the feast before the famine.

      There are a lot of Netflix wannabes. Disney, CBS, BBC, etc, are all pulling a lot of content off of Netflix. Netflix is a veritable wasteland of well-known content compared to what it was even three years ago, and it's only going to get worse. They're having to make their own stuff to maintain content.

      I highly doubt Netflix are going to go under- but Netflix execs are probably looking at their cheques with concern- are their end of year bonuses going to be so well padded in 5 years from now? How are they ever going to be able to afford the bigger yacht if they lose half their marketshare in the upcoming years.

      Netflix is bathing in money right now, but, it is potentially facing a less rosy future. They're not going to become the next blockbusters and disappear, but they may not dominate the landscape in the near future either. They're looking for ways to scrape the barrel.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  2. That's nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's nothing compared to the housing market losing $7.2 TRILLION per year from pirates living more than one person per house.

  3. Faulty assumption by bigHairyDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This assumes that 100% of the moochers would have paid for an account if they didn't mooch. I don't know what proportion of people would actually have paid for an account, but I'm guessing more than 10% and less than 50%? Still a lot, but the presence of that glaring error in the conclusions makes me wonder how much the study authors are biasing their assumptions to make the most headline-grabbing number possible, rather than engaging in a good-faith effort to find out how much money these companies are really losing.

    --

    foo mane padme hum

    1. Re:Faulty assumption by Carewolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This assumes that 100% of the moochers would have paid for an account if they didn't mooch. I don't know what proportion of people would actually have paid for an account, but I'm guessing more than 10% and less than 50%? Still a lot, but the presence of that glaring error in the conclusions makes me wonder how much the study authors are biasing their assumptions to make the most headline-grabbing number possible, rather than engaging in a good-faith effort to find out how much money these companies are really losing.

      Also assumes they someone didn't pay for the extra seats in the account. The way Netflix works is that you have to buy multiple seats, so ofcourse when you legally buy them, and then actually use them.. That shouldn't count as piracy, but now apparently does..

      Watching things that are paid for, is now piracy....

    2. Re:Faulty assumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      This assumes that 100% of the moochers would have paid for an account if they didn't mooch.

      Actually TFA quite clearly states that it assumes 59.3% moochers would have paid for an account if they didn't mooch, based on a survey where 59.3% of the respondents who answered that they were currently sharing someone else's single-user-only Netflix account ALSO answered that if they lost access to that account they'd go and pay for an account of their own.

    3. Re:Faulty assumption by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The way Netflix works is that you have to buy multiple seats, so ofcourse when you legally buy them, and then actually use them.. That shouldn't count as piracy, but now apparently does..

      And it doesn't factor in all those people who bought the extra seats and then didn't use them either. Pure profit for Netflix! If you're going to count "piracy" losses, you need to count the "bought but didn't use" gains against that, since the two are very much related.

      If there was only one login available at one time, you wouldn't have much "piracy", but you wouldn't have all that bought-but-didn't-use revenue either.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  4. Watching together by religionofpeas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder how much money they are losing because family members watch a movie together, instead of each streaming to their own account ?

  5. This is a non-story by timholman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the first place, the CEO of Netflix has stated that he considers account sharing to be an overall positive, not a negative.

    Second, if Netflix wants to fix this "problem", it is completely within their power. Institute a single-stream HD plan (instead of the current single-stream SD plan), and many households will switch to it, instead of the double-stream HD plan. Or, Netflix could simply charge a fixed price per additional stream, in which case the owner of the account becomes moot.

    Regardless, if I'm paying for a stream, why does it matter who I allow to use it? If that person hogs the stream and locks me out, that is no one's problem but mine. Either I change the password, or I buy another stream.

  6. Re:Greed by GungaDan · · Score: 4, Funny

    "my wife purchased her pain ticket with my Visa"

    Kinky.

    --
    Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
  7. Account Sharing, not piracy. by sarkeizen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Personally, I'm disappointed that Slashdot actually posted this.

    So it seems that this isn't about piracy at all. Just account sharing, which is defined as "anyone who used a streaming service but did not pay for it". This would include ones parents, common law spouse, girlfriend/boyfriend, or sibling - collectively totaling over 60% of the Netflix account sharers. It doesn't really clarify how they determined if this was inside or outside the policy for the given service based on the definition I'd wager they simply didn't care.

    How accurate this is depends significantly how the questions were posed. i.e. Saying "Do you pay for your own Netflix account or do you use someone else's?" could easily mean to someone who isn't violating the TOS

    Also to those who are saying the implied claim is that 100% of the people who use someone else's credentials would buy their own. Apparently they asked the question "If you lost access to this credential would you get your own." For Netflix aboutt 60% said "yes" and this was used to determine the overall "cost" of account sharing.

  8. Nothing on trading by jgtg32a · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My parents have Netfix, I have Prime, brother has HBOGo.
     
    We all share.

  9. Did anyone mention by CodeHog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    that it's assumed people not paying for it would actually pay for it? I see that's covered. How about this - maybe this study was done for some other reason, like to prop up stock prices? Or maybe drive them down a bit so someone can buy at a lower cost? nah, that would be wrong, they're good guys.... Oh look a squirrel.

    --
    Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
  10. I once lost 10 billion by Gabest · · Score: 5, Funny

    By not playing the lottery.