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$200 Million Dollars a Year Could Reverse Climate Change, Says Wave Energy Pioneer (bbc.com)

dryriver writes: BBC Future reports on a geoengineering technique called "marine cloud brightening" that makes marine Stratocumulus clouds -- which currently reflect almost 30% of total Solar radiation back into space -- whiter, causing them to reflect more sunlight away from earth. Professor Stephen Salter of Edinburgh University, a well-known 1970s wave and tidal power pioneer, has designed an unmanned hydro-foil ship, computer-controlled and wind-powered, which pumps an ultra-fine mist of sea salt toward the cloud layer, causing it to turn white: "'Spraying about 10 cubic meters per second could undo all the [global warming] damage we've done to the world up until now,' Salter claims. And, he says, the annual cost would be less than the cost to host the annual UN Climate Conference -- between $100-$200 million each year. Salter calculates that a fleet of 300 of his autonomous ships could reduce global temperatures by 1.5C. He also believes that smaller fleets could be deployed to counter-act regional extreme weather events.

Hurricane seasons and El Nino, exacerbated by high sea temperatures, could be tamed by targeted cooling via marine cloud brightening. Salter boasts that 160 of his ships could 'moderate an El Nino event, and a few hundred [would] stop hurricanes.' The same could be done, he says, to protect large coral reefs such as the Great Barrier Reef, and even cool the polar regions to allow sea ice to return. So, what's the catch? Well, there's a very big catch indeed. The potential side-effects of solar geoengineering on the scale needed to slow hurricanes or cool global temperatures are not well understood. According to various theories, it could prompt droughts, flooding, and catastrophic crop failures. Another major concern is that geoengineering could be used as an excuse to slow down emissions reduction, meaning CO2 levels continue to rise and oceans continue to acidify -- which, of course, brings its own serious problems."

31 of 316 comments (clear)

  1. this has been a pretty brutal winter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The last thing I'm interested in is trying to figure out a way to make it even worse.

    1. Re:this has been a pretty brutal winter. by AHuxley · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gets warmer that's some powerful global warming.
      Got colder? Thats all that climate change moving in.
      Always a reason for a new project.

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    2. Re:this has been a pretty brutal winter. by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 2

      Who are you, Kenny Bania? Get some new material.

    3. Re:this has been a pretty brutal winter. by Calydor · · Score: 2

      Second hottest February on record (hottest was 1990) in Denmark.

      This is why the plural of anecdote is not data.

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    4. Re:this has been a pretty brutal winter. by religionofpeas · · Score: 5, Informative

      Second snowiest Feb ever ( well, since 1893) and about third or fourth coldest in Spokane.

      Snow is more an indicator of high moisture than extreme cold. Also, it's called 'global' warming, not 'Spokane' warming.

      Here, check the worldwide map for January:
      https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gis...

      (next month you can go back and check world map for Feb)

    5. Re:this has been a pretty brutal winter. by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've been counting the number of polar bears in my back yard since the early 90's. They have shown no significant decline.

      But peer-reviewed journals won't accept my data and continue to claim it's anecdotal.

      Just more mainstream cuck liberal data scientists who won't consider data that conflicts with theirs just because I live free in the proud conservative state of Mississippi.

    6. Re:this has been a pretty brutal winter. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It will soon be raining salt water .

      I wondered that. How can we prevent the extra salt from travelling over land and adjusting the chemical composition of farm land. It almost seems like that could lead to a worse environmental disaster for places along the wind currents of these salt sprayers than global warming.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    7. Re:this has been a pretty brutal winter. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Gets warmer that's some powerful global warming. Got colder? Thats all that climate change moving in. Always a reason for a new project.

      And it's soooo confusing some times!

      I wasin Florida most of February. It was unusually hot. Upper 80's, humid, sunny. Ahhh - there's Global warming!

      Came back to the Northeast, and snow! Freezing rain! Temps below or near freezing. So much for global warming!

      Amazing that some folks debunk global warming by looking out the window and taking in maybe a square mile of the world.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re: this has been a pretty brutal winter. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Butt butt... wait are you saying the world is not flat?

      I think it depends on the granularity. On the coast of Florida or Northwest Ohio, it surely looks pretty flat. Here in the Ridge and Valley region of PA - it's hard to tell what level even is.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. Sure, it *could* reduce net warming. by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But it wouldn't reverse all the effects of climate change, such as ocean acidification. You'd also continue to have increased solar forcing in places with fewer clouds, and a different amount of sunlight of all wavelengths in other places.

    I would make sense to try something like this if we were demonstrably on the brink of some kind of runaway thermal effect, but it wouldn't maintain the status quo or return the status quo ante. You'd still see major and widespread ecological disruption.

    An approach like this could keep the *average* temperature increase around the globe down, but in fact that average temperature increase is not that dramatic -- its only about 2 degrees. But that represents a vast amount of total energy, and the changes that energy will bring to air and moisture circulation is what is going to be dramatic. Doing something like this will introduce different, perhaps nearly as dramatic changes in global weather patterns.

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    1. Re:Sure, it *could* reduce net warming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then the criteria for geoengineering on a massive scale are fulfilled, and we should be doing that immediately.

  3. Look at the motive here by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course a guy named "Salter" is going to have a vested interest in spraying salt.

    1. Re:Look at the motive here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Super villian detected

    2. Re:Look at the motive here by AbRASiON · · Score: 3, Funny

      I "spray salt" almost daily and it just leaves me short of breath and one more sock to wash.

    3. Re:Look at the motive here by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      I "spray salt" almost daily and it just leaves me short of breath and one more sock to wash.

      Look at the flash git with his fancy sock. Just wipe it on the curtains like everyone else.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  4. Unintended Consequences? by david.emery · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We're working off of computer models of climate. Those get validated by taking past data and running them into the models which are built on past data. The idea of messing with the weather on a planetary level scares the bejezzus out of me. See "Law of Unintended Consequences."

    1. Re:Unintended Consequences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thankfully the clouds of misted water dissipate quickly and don't have any byproducts, unlike other suggestions, aerogels, etc. So it can be done in a pretty safe and stoppable way if some unforeseen consequence emerged.

      They're just artificial clouds, it's just water. Where and when they do this and how the wind carries it, monitoring all of that, it's not simple but it is pretty straightforward. Certainly less risky than some alternative proposals.

      But your fear is warranted of course.

    2. Re:Unintended Consequences? by swilver · · Score: 2

      Too late, we're already messing with climate on a global scale.

  5. But Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez... by CRB9000 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...says it will take $92 trillion of social programs to reverse climate change. Oh, and we have get rid of farting cows.

    1. Re: But Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Did a bit of research. It's a number calculated by a right wing thinktank with little credibility, and doesn't include any of the savings vs. doing nothing, or compare costs of alternative plans.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  6. Part of the dialogue by Livius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I see a lot of unanswered questions and potential limitations, but I like that someone is thinking about dealing with climate change in terms of solutions that are feasible technologically, economically, and politically.

    My guess is that this would be at best part of the solution, but it's better than believing the only possibilities are to deny the existence of the problem or to naively hope people will casually give up their standard of living.

  7. Re:Oceans are becoming less alkaline, not acidic. by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

    In oceanography a reduction of pH is called "acidfication".

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  8. Salter's paper on the sea-going hardware by Namarrgon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Quite a lot of detail here. He also includes calculations for required levels of spray to achieve the desired albedo increase, methods for assigning vessels to the areas with the highest effect, etc.

    --
    Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
  9. "Geoengineering" is an idiotic substitute by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 2

    for the thing that needs to be done - which is actually reducing the CO2 output.

    Why? Because it will not address the issue, and will add further stress to the biosphere, the thing that we're allegedly worried about.

    We only recently had that story about another space cadet and their rig that was supposed to "clean" the oceans of plastic garbage, which proceeded to become plastic garbage instead.

    So, nope, how about we address the real issue, and have the solution paid for by the people who have profited most from it.

    1. Re: "Geoengineering" is an idiotic substitute by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 2

      It is very funny how the staunchest proponents of "capitalism" and "personal responsibility" start screaming "Marxism" whenever personal responsibility means they have to actually pony up for their own mess.

      It is also funny how they blabber about "world ending crap that never happened" and drop in the "ozone hole" or the risks of nuclear war or acidic rain, all of which are real and were removed or significantly reduced by policy.

      It is even funnier how they mix up real problems (like water shortage, hunger) with bullshit in the hope that the real problems will somehow stop to be real because of that.

      The level of stupidity, willful ignorance and lack of concern for anything but your own lardy ass is unbelievable. You are truly what you shit.

  10. Whether this or something else ... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 2

    Whether this or something else ... it's going to be technological solutions. It's not going to be solved by everyone going stone age,

  11. OK Jeff Bezos by WindowsStar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Jeff Bezos give 1 billion dollars a year for climate change, even if you live a 100 more years you will never go broke! Problem solved!

    1. Re:OK Jeff Bezos by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Jeff Bezos give 1 billion dollars a year for climate change, even if you live a 100 more years you will never go broke! Problem solved!,

      That depends on how many times he gets divorced...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    Salted rain ? What could possibly go wrong with that ?

    Not much. It is 10 m^3/sec of seawater. On a global scale that is an infinitesimal amount of salt, and is harmless.

  13. Re:Get a therapy then. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2, Funny

    Did it tip over like Guam almost did?

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  14. What could possibly go wrong? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

    Oh yeah. How about Ice Ages from hell. (Hmmm. that didn't work out so well ... ice and ... hell)

    Ok. Redo - how about Ice Ages from Niflheim. (If you're into Norse Mythology and all that. )

    And yeah. I had to look it up. I can't remember things I can't pronounce.

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