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Facebook, Twitter, and Google Still Aren't Doing Enough About Disinformation, EU Says (theverge.com)

Facebook, Twitter, and Google still aren't doing enough to battle disinformation on their platforms, European Union officials said in a statement released this week. "As part of a plan to fight disinformation on social media, the companies signed on to a voluntary proposal to crack down on the problem last year, which included making plans to increase transparency and fight fake accounts," reports The Verge. "The European Commission is now publicizing monthly progress reports on the topic, and has released the first, covering January." From the report: In the statement, the officials criticized the companies' responses, saying "we need to see more progress." "Platforms have not provided enough details showing that new policies and tools are being deployed in a timely manner and with sufficient resources across all EU Member States," the statement said. "The reports provide too little information on the actual results of the measures already taken."

Facebook, Twitter, and Google were each singled out for not providing enough information in their reports to officials, who said in today's statement that they remain "concerned by the situation." The statement pressed the platforms to move faster ahead of European Parliament elections in May. In an accompanying op-ed in The Guardian this week, EU commissioners said, "if we do not see sufficient long-term progress, we reserve the right to reconsider our policy options -- including possible regulation."

110 comments

  1. Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Battle disinformation = conduct censorship. No difference.

    1. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Censor or validated? You can validate information isnâ(TM)t biased or manipulative or you can threaten and ban outright the subjects of discourse that threaten some weak dictatorship power base or sorry some cheating son of a landlord who cheated his country by not paying taxes to the same country that gave him most of his money to build housing... Truth is subjective until you present the whole picture and that requires all the facts, so all of this web representation is pure shitty little words until it becomes the coherent singularity of information that presents the whole picture and isnâ(TM)t just words.

      Be careful what you ask for...

    2. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll be promoting official government conspiracy theories too, not just censoring the truth. A bunch of guys in a cave demolishing skyscrapers with jet fuel doesn't qualify as "disinformation", even though we all know it's scientifically impossible.

    3. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Christ is lord and savior.
      Muhammed is the true prophet.

      Yeah good luck with that battle.

    4. Re:Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Censorship" is not what it is when a TOS is enforced on a private website. That's called basic shit, sorry basic shit eludes you.

    5. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They ARE the disinformation.

    6. Re:Censorship by any other name by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Censorship" is not what it is when a TOS is enforced on a private website.

      It is when it is compelled by the government, which is what the EU is doing.

      Censorship in China works the same way. It is not done directly by the government. They outsource it to tech companies, who do what they are told so they can stay in business.

      So what's the difference?

    7. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50 tons of gold out of Syria! Wooooo!

    8. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Pity you're a moron. Censorship is censorship and requires no government.

      The concept of freedom of speech existed and exists outside of the US's first amendment and the barely comparable apings of Eurotrash.

    9. Re:Censorship by any other name by BlueStrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Battle disinformation = conduct censorship. No difference.

      Exactly.

      Much like the long list of other parallels that exist between the EU and the former USSR.

      The EU is well on the path to becoming a "kinder, gentler" USSR-style super-State. No surprise the EU is resorting to similar authoritarian measures against "wrong-think" and for suppressing dissenting voices.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    10. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever read the historical context of religions at the time of these examples of religion founding individuals?

    11. Re: Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone claiming to have absolute truth is a liar and a charlatan.

      For example, every leftist moron on this website KNOWS Donald Trump CONSPIRED with Russia to steal the 2016 election from Hillary Clinton, because IT WAS HER TURN!

      And yet there is literally zero evidence to support this narrative. The only thing that suggests it is a document created and paid for by Hillary Clinton.

      And they claim to be the intelligent ones, dedicated to truth and fairness, who want to be the arbiters of FACT.

    12. Re:Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, here it is strat spouting his delusions again. What a useless cunt.

    13. Re:Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ummm, disinformation should be censored and that should be transparant and reported on. who is doing this. why.

      this whole wilful ignorance of nuance, and black and white maxmalist free speech schtick is getting super tired.

      censorship is a fundamental part of publishing. some stuff goes in the paper some doesn't that's just how it works. my breakfast choice probably won't be in the headlines tomorrow.

      the reasons behind what does and doesn't make it are what matters.

    14. Re:Censorship by any other name by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Indeed. But it's even worse than that, in a way.

      Even if they wanted to block disinformation -- and they don't -- they are incapable of knowing disinformation from the other kind.

      Not just because of normal human limitations, but also because of their inherent (and by now obvious) biases.

    15. Re:Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Battle disinformation = conduct censorship

      wilful ignorance is pathetic.

      efforts to misinform a population should be curbed.

      this has nothing to do with stopping people from expressing themselves.

    16. Re:Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL!

      "Blue Man Bad!"

    17. Re:Censorship by any other name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly - the internet means that anybody can tell the TRUTH about anything they want, and the powers that be don't like that - seeing as the powers that be are the slaveowners of the people.

      The Jewish 'Holocaust' is a lie - don't believe me, investigate it for yourself. Ask yourself why people are in PRISON right now, for merely saying something that the Jews don't like:

      www.codoh.com

  2. So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's stop using them.

    1. Re: So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then how will I manipulate the millions of voters who know nothing about BREXIT?

      You should not use them, you are making it harder for me to manipulate the sheeple! Go away smart people!

    2. Re: So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With all the cheese in China?

    3. Re:So by Excelcia · · Score: 2

      You're not wrong.

      Twitter and Facebook have been the flagship champions of empty-calorie non-information from their inception. How anyone even cares about 'dis' information there is beyond me.

      Anyone who uses Twitter or Facebook for "information" in the first place deserves to be the victim of disimformation.

    4. Re:So by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anyone who uses Twitter or Facebook for "information" in the first place deserves to be the victim of disimformation.

      The problem is that these people can vote, so their delusions become everyone's problem.

    5. Re:So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - The problem is that these people can vote

      What a classic move

  3. Re: Also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop using EUssr.

  4. Robotic Filtering by mentil · · Score: 5, Funny

    Using automated content filtering is how you get cases like Marvin the paranoid android. Please, think of the androids!

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Robotic Filtering by postbigbang · · Score: 2

      More simple still: put a flag of the country of origin of the IP address and the user. Both of these are known values, easily placed. Add TOR exit nodes with an exclamation point. Easy.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  5. That pesky 1st amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Disinformation is that which displeases the strongest and most violent.

  6. The EU is full of greed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are just looking for reasons to fine these companies lots of money.

    All of these companies just need to say "Fuck you" and move all of their operations out of EU,

    1. Re:The EU is full of greed. by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      The far more likely context is the upcoming EU parliament elections, where it seems that pro-EU parties are going to get a serious beating as the anti-EU sentiment is rapidly climbing across most of the member states. One way to curb this would be to sensor any news painting EU in a negative light as "disinformation" and anyone spreading it as "bad people with bad agenda".

      Mainstream media across EU is largely on board with this and has been for many years. So to lock the information down completely, one needs to attack the remaining vectors. That would be major social network platforms. Facebook, twitter and google shoved their own necks into the noose when they signed on, because one of the key reasons these platforms are popular is because they allow people to talk about things that mainstream will literally persecute you for talking about. The good part here is that this isn't about them, but internal power struggle within EU. So people within those corporations who signed on are likely banking on the fact that they're very much outsiders in this fight, and by taking side with the authorities, they will be kept out of it.

    2. Re:The EU is full of greed. by AHuxley · · Score: 0

      If EU nations can't tax freedom they want to ban freedom.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re: The EU is full of greed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are popular because they catter to people's narcissism and allow the dissemination of silly memes.

      Anything you said is just a side product.

    4. Re:The EU is full of greed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't fix stupid Democrat faggots like this - you can only hang them for treason, inevitably. Pity the dumb cunts.

    5. Re: The EU is full of greed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now friend, rounding up faggots and hanging them is now "lynching" and massively illegal because faggots feared the comupance and passed some shady laws. Best we take the ones with AIDS and withhold their meds, while the rest we allow security forces to faggotnap, drug, and fly over a large body of watet.

    6. Re: The EU is full of greed. by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      We are in agreement. The only thing to add is that this is one of the countless cases where "side product" is more important than the core one.

  7. Disinformation by manu0601 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am all in favor of suppressing disinformation, but who should decide an information is truth or not?

    We all remember Irak's Weapons of Mass Destruction, a government backed information followed up my many medias, which turned to be a huge fake news. It was so fake that US invaders did not even manage to plant fake evidence to support it after they "won" the war.

    1. Re:Disinformation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or any of the things that happened since. I mean you could have picked something from Obama's eight years of media disinformation and outright lies, but you chose to go back nearly 20 years. And let's see there is a more recent example in the White House. Yeah let's not talk about that right?

      You can always tell an oldster by which president they insult.

    2. Re:Disinformation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fixed quote:

      In the statement, the officials criticized the companies' responses, saying "we need to see more free money." "Platforms have not provided enough free money to all EU Member States," the statement said. "The reports provide too little information on the actual money already taken."

      Facebook, Twitter, and Google were each singled out for not providing enough money to officials, who said in today's statement that they remain "concerned by the free money." The statement pressed the platforms to move faster ahead of European Parliament elections in May. In an accompanying op-ed in The Guardian this week, EU commissioners said, "if we do not see sufficient free money, we reserve the right to reconsider our policy options -- including possible regulation."

    3. Re:Disinformation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am all in favor of suppressing disinformation, but who should decide an information is truth or not?

      We all remember Irak's Weapons of Mass Destruction, a government backed information followed up my many medias, which turned to be a huge fake news. It was so fake that US invaders did not even manage to plant fake evidence to support it after they "won" the war.

      Well, it definitely should be some sort of governmental body, something directly controlled by the EU, after all can't trust anyone else with such an important undertaking, eh, comrade? I'm thinking top level administration unit, so a ministry seems about right. And seeing as it is devoted to the service of truth, let's call it The Ministry of Truth. Ministry of Love, Peace and Plenty are soon to follow.

    4. Re:Disinformation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look

      1. Social media also started reporting on the mainstream media. Despite being a sewer of shit, there were occasional jewels in there. Video that had been edited by the likes of CNN were shown in full on social media. People suddenly saw what they WEREN'T see before.
      2. The establishment and mass media was sorely embarrassed when people began to organise and call them out on their lying. They want lots of isolated drones being fed the right narrative. Whether that's Trump, Brexit or vast raping of working class white girls across the UK by Muslims.
      3. Mainstream media wants its place back as the establishment water carrier. They don't like being caught out in their lies

      Result: The push to close down the ability of people who disagree with the establishment narratives in advance of a) The next US elections b) The Brexit re-run they plan to force on the UK c) the acceleration of mass migration initiatives

    5. Re:Disinformation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but who should decide an information is truth or not?

      The Proper Authorities, duh!

    6. Re:Disinformation by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Can you. I thought he was criticising Bush there. You kids know nothing!

      A good reason to use Iraq's WMD as an example is because it was many years ago, so long ago that nobody will come up with the tired tropes they do today to deflect from their favourite president. So today, you say "Trump did bad" others will jump up and reply "but Obama did badder", and vice-versa.

      with WMD it is now "history" and thus a little past the tribal politics, we can use it to highlight the problem with fake news quite well as it not only stands up as a prime example, but is self-contained and not nearly as mixed up in current politicking.

    7. Re:Disinformation by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      A good reason to use Iraq's WMD as an example is because it was many years ago

      Indeed, this is exactly why I chose that example, rather than more recent government-backed fake news for which there are remaining supporters.

    8. Re:Disinformation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll have you know that this goes all the way back to the days of William Henry Harrison when he realized he didn't want to be President and faked his death with the collusion of newspapers.

  8. The Verge (and VOX) = FAKE NEWS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The social media won't be successful until ALL fake news are banned!

  9. Idiots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Facebook, Twitter, and Google are disinformation.

  10. Your free speech is not disinformation by AHuxley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What do European Union officials want to ban now?

    Who is saying what disinformation is?
    The user has the ability to publish and link to any information they want. Its their comment.
    Why should an NGO, think tank, mil, any nation, European Union official say thats not approved speech?
    Spain on a comment about Catalonia?
    Germany on history?
    Germany on its open migration policy?
    China on Taiwan?
    Big agriculture wants some Ag-gag laws?
    France wants to ban funny comments about politicians and all news about protests?
    No comments on DRM?
    No comments on political movies not selling well?
    No right to talk about repairing brand name products with imported parts?
    Weak junk crypto is a banned topic?
    No linking to published whistleblower news about the mil and security services?
    No funny memes about NATO?
    No comments on EU nation arms exports to really bad nations?
    No funny memes about EU nation censorship attempts?
    A computer company on what needs to be curated and what speech is a sin?
    Social media on what politics it will allow?
    Will the EU has a blasphemy test for questions of faith? Can any faith, cult, theocracy tell the EU what they think disinformation is?
    Can a Communist party demand the removal of information on democracy, faith, history, freedom by nations in the EU?
    No saying Taiwan is the real China?

    Do European Union officials have books, movies, plays, publications that want to ban due to "disinformation"?
    Why stop with reporting and removing content online?

    Go full German BfV on all EU publishers and online comments?
    The US freedom to publish and the to stay free after publication is looking great after the views of EU nations.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Your free speech is not disinformation by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Is anti-vaxx stuff protected by freedom of speech?

      If you shout "fire" in a theatre and people are injured or killed trying to escape the non-existent conflagration, you may be liable for that. If you convince parents not to get their kids vaccinated and they suffer illness, life long poor heath or death as a result, "free speech" doesn't seem like a very good defence.

      "Oh but I just told him where the money was, how to get in after hours and what the combination of the safe was! That's just information, I was helping him making an informed choice to rob that bank or not!

      On the one hand we of course want there to be open discourse and concerns about vaccinations discussed. But on the other hand the consequences of spreading misinformation and FUD can be deadly. Even in the US the constitutional right to free speech doesn't protect you from any and all consequences of what you say.

      And actually all the EU is asking for is for companies to do what they claim they want to do (to remove harmful material from their networks).

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Your free speech is not disinformation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do European Union officials want to ban now?

      Anything that goes against Brussels' sanctioned opinions.

      They've been attacking anyone who is not on board with their agenda. More and more people are disagreeing with their politics. Brussels is getting worried and more rabid in their attacks against the people. Especially in light of the upcoming election.

      Don't like open borders? Giving up all your national sovereignty to unelected committees like the EU commission? Having more and more things banned by out of touch ivory tower politicians? Citizens getting a say in the course of their country? Welcome to the basket of evil evil "populists" and your own "special place in hell".

      Brussels is explicitely only targeting new media on the internet. Old media is exempt because they are already on board. Hell, they're even working on their own Pravda and a Ministry of Truth.

    3. Re:Your free speech is not disinformation by freax · · Score: 1

      Here in the EU it's always the judge who decides whether or not you broke the law by speaking. Never the government or the legislative branch. You see, we have separation of powers since the enlightenment period.

      The legislative branch creates the laws. The judge interpretes and executes the law (makes it happen, judges). The executive branch ensures that the law is applied (policing, imprisonment, etc).

      So who decides? The judge after the legislative branch has creates the laws that the judge needs in order for him to interprete them.

      It really is like that here. It's not a farce or something. It's in my country also the constitution. And separation of powers is also a de facto requirement before you can join the EU and/or if you want to stay in it (see Poland and Hungary who are both being told, clearly, by the EU, that they should not interfere with their country's juridical branch - and else you can fuck off from the EU).

    4. Re:Your free speech is not disinformation by Z80a · · Score: 2

      On the example of the theatre, you can easily consider the shout something that is not speech, as well, you're screaming.
      And on the case of not vaccinating, its not the speech itself causing the trouble, but not vaccinating.
      And its way easier to just make illegal to not vaccinate your kids and keep tabs on what they took or not than creating a 1984 hell where all speech is monitored by the government.

    5. Re:Your free speech is not disinformation by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      No medical comments?
      No talking about crypto and DRM? Who gets to set what "material" is to be removed?
      What speech is a sin?
      What will be curated and who can lobby for all other sinful material to be removed?
      A movie company what wants the negative "political" reviews of their new movie to stop and all past comments and links to be removed?
      A hardware company that has a lot of failed product on the market but wants people to stop having the freedom to report on defects?
      A faith group that wants to stop people from talking about leaving the faith, changing to another faith?
      Can a faith group demand full legal EU nation blasphemy protection for its teachings?
      No talking about the results of national and city politics in the EU?
      No funny memes as the art work is so good it has to be the result of another nations gov/mil experts?
      That a funny joke had to be created by another nations experts?
      No comments about China and the history of Communism due to EU trade deals?
      No comments allowed on a Catalan declaration of independence?
      EU nations, cults, brands, actors, political groups, think tanks will have the money and lawyers to sway EU law to block speech and publication due to their own presented views.
      Thats why the US view of freedom of speech and freedom after speech is so great.
      People can publish, comment, review without fear of an EU government saying no to further publication in the name of an NGO, cult, brand, think tank, faith, mil.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:Your free speech is not disinformation by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I don't think the "but I said it at normal volume therefore free speech" defence is likely to stand up in court. You can also imagine scenarios where shouting is not necessary.

      The more fundamental problem here is people conflating freedom of speech with freedom from consequences. There would be no need to ban people from saying certain things, only to punish them for the consequences. And that has been happening forever, e.g. fraud, true threats, masterminding crimes, leaking classified information etc.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Your free speech is not disinformation by Z80a · · Score: 1

      What the tech companies, EU etc want is to ban people from saying certain things.

  11. Who decides? by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a pretty fine line between "preventing disinformation" and quashing free speech and dissent.

    Is UKIP saying "Britain will be better off after Brexit" disinformation? Is Trump saying "some illegal immigrants commit heinous crimes in the USA" disinformation? Are directed wikileaks exposures disinformation? Is truth a defense?

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Who decides? by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      The line is not that fine, this is a broad jump across it.

          Of course, the real issue is that they need to figure out a new way to shake down the major US players for more cash.

    2. Re:Who decides? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      The EU is made up from the wisest people in Europe, who went to the best schools. They are well able to decide what's true and false. Britain will not be better off after Brexit, that's fake news which must be deplatformed. So many lies out there doing harm.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:Who decides? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      Is UKIP saying "Britain will be better off after Brexit" disinformation?

      Is the claim that GBP350 million a week would go to the NHS disinformation? Yes as it happens. It was a bald-faced lie.

      Farage made an almost identical claim (55 million per day) which was also a bald-faced lie.

      These are not subjective opinions. You can literally count the net flow of money from the UK to the EU, and it is not those numbers.

      So yes it was demonstrably misinformation.

      Is Trump saying "some illegal immigrants commit heinous crimes

      That's a pretty strong misrepresentation of Trump's overally position. I can see why you don't like disinformation being pointed out.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:Who decides? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the claim that GBP350 million a week would go to the NHS disinformation? Yes as it happens. It was a bald-faced lie.

      That was never the claim.

      "we send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead"

      No idea how the £350 million figure was arrived at but we paid £13 billion (before rebate) in 2017 which is a tidy £250 million a week.

      As for disinformation; What is the air speed velocity of a laden swallow? The EU may not know that.

    5. Re:Who decides? by swillden · · Score: 1

      It's a pretty fine line between "preventing disinformation" and quashing free speech and dissent.

      You're right to be concerned, but wrong about the problem.

      The problem isn't that it's hard to distinguish disinformation from free speech and dissent. Oh, you can find examples of cases where it's hard to make this call, but they're cases where the truth isn't actually all that clear. By and large, it's very easy to distinguish disinformation from honest, thoughtful disagreement, and the exceptions (a) aren't terribly important and (b) tend to clarify in reasonably short order.

      No, the problem isn't that correct use of centralized disinformation-suppressing power is impossible, it's that incorrect use is possible. To talk sensibly about this, we have to first understand the context:

      Traditionally, the lack of central control, the high cost of information distribution, and the inability to target narrow sub-audiences defined by interest/opinion has allowed truth to be distilled from the hubbub. Slowly, inefficiently, but usually effectively, simply because it was too difficult and expensive to push disinformation to broad audiences. Even in autocratic states with a monopoly on information distribution, the truth was hard to contain, because people understood the monopoly power and were skeptical of it.

      But the world is different now. Information distribution is very close to free, which has created an information glut. In the overwhelming flood of information, people have to be selective; they simply cannot consume all that's available. This makes it easy to form self-targeted segments who choose the information they consume based on what feels true to them -- meaning what tickles their own biases most effectively. This self-segmentation occurs naturally when people have too much information available and deep power to be selective. Worse, those self-selected groups become echo chambers, reinforcing their shared biases. (Note that this happens across the spectrum of ideas; not just on the left or the right). That in and of itself would be mildly problematic, but it's only the beginning.

      These "filter bubble" and "echo chamber" problems are turned up to 11 when people with deep resources realize that it can be exploited; that they can infiltrate the self-selected groups and feed them targeted disinformation which both exploits and exacerbates the group biases. This is a real problem, particularly on the right. For various reasons, the left is more prone to self-deception and bad judgment but less susceptible to manipulation. The right is more vulnerable to this sort of manipulation, so we see more of its effect there. Note that I didn't say the left is invulnerable, just less vulnerable.

      The EU (and other governments) see a real, legitimate problem here. But their proposed solution, to demand that disinformation be suppressed, is a risky one because it requires building an infrastructure of information suppression, an infrastructure that can -- and mostly will -- be used to suppress harmful disinformation, but could -- and likely occasionally will -- be used to suppress legitimate dissent.

      There's another, more subtle problem here as well, the anti-democratic nature of information suppression systems. Even if they are only used to suppress egregious disinformation, their mere existence creates doubt in the fairness of important institutions. Worse, the self-selected population segments who embrace the disinformation being suppressed will see the suppression as not only casting doubt on democratic institutions, but as proof of their destruction/subversion by the "enemy". This is precisely the facet of human nature that makes it so difficult for autocratic regimes to successfully push their preferred narrative, turned on its head.

      What is the solution? I don't know. Ultimately, we need to pop the bubbles, to remove either the ability or the desire of people to self-segment into information echo chambers. Man

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    6. Re:Who decides? by ganv · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is pushing us to address a major confusion about what kinds of communication are acceptable and what are not. It doesn't work to use truth status as the main distinction...because as you say there are major disagreements about what is true. We are currently in a crisis over 'communication with a hidden agenda'. Our communication channels are so full of self-interested communication in the form of advertising that people have started assuming self-interest and dismissing messages with clear sources and agendas. It becomes more effective for self-interested communication to hide its source and agenda. With source and agenda hidden, purposeful disinformation becomes a more effective tactic. People are trying to make this illegal, but it is very hard to do that without an authority deciding which messages to suppress.

    7. Re:Who decides? by argStyopa · · Score: 0

      The fact that you (deliberately) built strawmen to argue about, made it into a political side-bias point, and attacked the semantics rather than recognizing the point of the comment beyond that...proves that you're precisely part of the problem.

      Thanks for making my point. You're EXACTLY the sort of tendentious person who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anyone else's free speech constraints.

      --
      -Styopa
    8. Re:Who decides? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      For someone who claims you like freeze peach so much you sure don't like it when someone uses tiers to disagree with you.

      Yes UKIP and the Tory party spread misinformation. That's not really up for debate unless you deny reality.

      I do like how you spin anyone disagreeing with you as being against free speech. Free speech means you are free to lie. Free speech means I'm free to call you out when you do so.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:Who decides? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > That was never the claim

      I suppose this picture is a forgery then.

      Your Brexiters can't stop lying, you can't even tell the truth about what you've said in the past, can you?

    10. Re:Who decides? by argStyopa · · Score: 0

      Again, you seem to be arguing against what YOU WANTED/EXPECTED me to say, rather than my actual words.

      I didn't say shut up. I didn't say you shouldn't speak.

      I said that your obvious tendentiousness means you should never be anywhere near the controls of 'what's free speech or not'.

      L2read.

      --
      -Styopa
  12. Re:Attention HUXLEY you FUCKING MORON : by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anonymous Dipshits just LOVE sucking giant corporate dick. It's okay, the law says they can censor all they want so no problem! Buy our razors!

  13. Modern examples by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am all in favor of suppressing disinformation, but who should decide an information is truth or not?

    We all remember Irak's Weapons of Mass Destruction

    In modern times, we get the following:

    a) Buzzfeed reports that Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress, which Mueller's office contradicts the next day.
    a) Buzzfeed reports on the Covington students, they were lambasted in the media for about a week, then better video evidence was available
    b) Jussie Smollett gets attacked in NY by two white, MAGA-hat wearing Trump supporters who put a noose around his neck and splash him with some liquid. And later charged with obstruction for making the whole bit up.

    I find it particularly entertaining because Microsoft NewsGuard counts "Drudge Report" as fake news. "Drudge Report" is mostly a story aggregator (as Slashdot is for tech news) and doesn't have many news stories on its own, so it can hardly be considered "fake".

    ...however, when the recent government shutdown ended they managed to get the scoop on *everyone*, so many people read in the news that the government shutdown had ended, and Microsoft readers were told that it was fake news!!!

    Scott Adams made an interesting suggestion for a fake news filter: if it's on all 4 major networks (Breitbart(*), Fox, CNN, MSNBC) then it's probably not fake. This is an interesting take, because the left-leaning outlets tend to wait for the full story when it's potentially bad for them, and the right-leaning outlets do the same when it's bad for their side. Waiting until both sides agree that the information is available and solid would prevent problems of "instant speculation gets the story wrong" like the Covington students or Jussie Smollett.

    If you have an eye for humor, the current MSM is right risible. Some 80% of the population (84%, by a recent poll) now doesn't trust the mainstream media for just about anything spectacular.

    By going after conservative outlets as "fake news", the public now labels the MSM as untrustworthy.

    That's hilarious!

    (*) Yes, Breitbart. Get over it. Breitbart has more readers than the next two networks (Fox and MSNBC) *combined*. CNN is in 4th place.

    1. Re:Modern examples by fafalone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because clearly bias is binary and not a spectrum. The reality of situation is, yes absolutely the outlets like CNN and MSNBC etc have a liberal bias, but the degree of their bias, their intention to mislead, isn't in the same universe as Breitbart and Fox News (yes, some are, but the cable networks and giant print papers, no). E.g., improperly verifying source info or nitpicking details to call something a lie just isn't equivalent to being deliberately misleading and showing overt, maliciously unbalanced bias.
      It's like, CNN gets some specific detail of the 2567614th awful thing Trump said/did wrong and issues a correction a day or two later, meanwhile Fox News is spouting 'Look at how the fake news media smeared the honest, upstanding, genius Donald Trump! Now here's our 10-part series on how the caravan of MS-13 and ISIS is a full-scale invasion and will destroy America!'
      CNN: Trump told 18 lies today. Fox News: The Fake News CNN called one of those 18 "lies" a lie because the number was 14,000 and not 15,000! Now here's our piece about how Trump and Huckabee-Sanders were truthful and sending the right message when he said thousands of terrorists were caught trying to cross the Mexico-US border even though the "actual" number was just 6, who were on a watchlist and not confirmed terrorists.'
      Yes, it was bad fact-checking bias to call 15k instead of 14k a lie, but then Fox News/Breitbart immediately followup their 'caught the liberal media being biased again!' with overt hostility towards the truth, blind worship of Trump, and bias so severe it makes whatever they were calling out seem like a paragon of neutrality.
      Fox News: "MSNBC lied when said the middle class didn't benefit from Trump's tax cuts!" (Because they got a few hundred in pay or tax benefits) "This proves Trump was truthful and correct in saying that the tax cuts hurt the rich and him and his friends personally and was a massive giveaway to the working man!" (Even though 90% of benefits went to the top 1% and Trump&friends substantially benefited.) Then they'll proceed to repeat Trump's lies about how megacorps using all their tax savings on stock buybacks and virtually nothing on wages actually benefits the middle class and not the wealthy too. But those liberal liars can't be trusted because we caught them lying about the middle class actually receiving a pittance instead of nothing! So them lying proves we're not!

      That they've convinced 80% of everyone that the false info, deliberate misleading, and overt bias is so pervasive even outside of Fox News/Breitbart that mainstream news in general can't be trusted is the ultimate 'fake news'.

      PS: I went on a tear about SJWs and their 'white men are all racist/sexist!' schtick earlier today, so when you conservatives give me a '-1 The Truth Makes Me Angry!' mod on this post, how's about balancing out the '-1 The Truth Makes Me Angry!' mod the liberals will be giving me for that one ;)
      Now I'm off to look for a thread talking about "centrists" to see if I can hit the trifecta of pissing off the entire political spectrum in one day.

    2. Re:Modern examples by mentil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Automatically believing something that the left-wing AND right-wing biased outlets report on is still unwise, as it just means that outlets that lack critical reporting and are willing to publish regardless of truth merely have to agree to prioritize profits. It's commonplace that a white house press release will happen and all the publishers across the spectrum will report on it, even if it's blatant disinformation. Reporting "person X says Y" is technically factual, even if the reporter knows the content is bullshit. I expect newswires to do that, but any news outlet that editorializes should be more skeptical, and I'd only factor in the ones that are.

      How about if, say, The Atlantic, BBC, Al Jazeera, and Christian Science Monitor all agree on something?

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    3. Re:Modern examples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There was a 2 hour video of the Covington kids available SAME DAY

    4. Re:Modern examples by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Troll

      if it's on all 4 major networks (Breitbart(*), Fox, CNN, MSNBC) then it's probably not fake.

      Consensus is a shitty way of determining if news is fake or not. For a start it's not like all four of them will send a journalist to report on every story, for the most part they all pick up the AP or Reuters story and add their own spin.

      A better option is to weight sources. The BBC is mostly reliable and can be relied on to publish corrections. If it's on Brietbart it's probably false. Then WAIT, don't leap to conclusions and start shit-posting instantly, and if it's important maybe do some research to better understand the story, and see how it develops over time. Stuff that is fake tends to get debunked fairly quickly, so all you really need to do is avoid being part of the mob that gets triggered by it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:Modern examples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please. Liberal media are witch hunters and demagogues. They absolutely intentionally mislead.

      There are the countless made-up accusations against Trump which were "backed" by imaginary sources and copied from one outlet to the next without any verification. Or the story about the Covington kids. Or the Smollet shitshow.

      Left-wing media are hate-mongers. They sell hatred.

    6. Re:Modern examples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The reality of situation is, yes absolutely the outlets like CNN and MSNBC etc have a liberal bias, but the degree of their bias, their intention to mislead, isn't in the same universe as Breitbart and Fox News (yes, some are, but the cable networks and giant print papers, no).

      Are you fucking kidding me? Breitbart has an intention to lead, they are very biased, but their misleading is accidental because they don't have a good editor. The other news outlets lie their asses off every single day as a matter of policy. Here is a very small number of examples off the top of my head where the outlets like CNN and MSNBC fabricated news and reported the opposite of the truth:

      • George Zimmerman was a NAACP volunteer who had campaigned against police brutality.
      • The Palestinians are a terrorist organization whose founder advised Adolph Hitler to kill the Jews instead of using them for forced labor.
      • The West Bank is Israeli land. All of that media whinging about The Occupation and Illegal Settlements is fake.
      • Transgender is a quasireligious order founded in Yogyakarta, Indonesia in 2007 that is supported by Cynthia Rothschild, George Soros, the Rockefeller foundations, and the British Army Bureau of Psychological Warfare.
      • Gamergate was a racketeering scandal that the FBI refused to prosecute because the people responsible were working for the White House and State Department. There was so little harassment of women that the FBI closed the case after interviewing three teenagers, one of whom was a friend of Brianna Wu. Meanwhile, US Government agents inside Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and LinkedIn gathered the identities of everyone discussing the scandal, convinced most of Silicon Valley to blacklist them from employment and industry conferences, and shipped their information to Qatar.
      • That Catholic kid in the MAGA hat who was grinning nervously while someone he didn't know, who turned out to be a professional Indian, had walked up to him and was banging a drum in his face to try and cause a reaction, he literally did nothing but the media wanted him murdered.
      • The Indian tribes called themselves Redskins, formally, during diplomacy, and there is nothing derogatory about the name.
      • Donald Trump did business with Russia as an FBI sting operation, which means that the FBI officials who made up Russiagate to derail his presidency knew that he was an undercover agent.
      • There are several White Genocide projects, we saw it happen in Rhodesia and South Africa and the American inner cities, it is not just a conspiracy theory but people have been caught conspiring to make it happen.
      • That kid in Texas with the fake bomb was arrested because he committed a felony and the school was required by law to call the police on him. There was no racism involved. He did not invent a clock, he disassembled one.
      • Pepe the Frog was the most popular meme on the Internet since AYBABTU when the media started claiming that everyone using it was a Nazi just so they could have an excuse to call Donald Trump Jr. a Nazi for posting a Pepe meme.

      When presented with evidence that they are wrong, Breitbart will sometimes get around to fixing it. The reporters from the Big Three and CNN and MNSBC will insult whoever sent in the correction, we see them do it on Twitter, and they put pressure on social media organizations to develop algorithms to automatically block any independent media that might report different facts to the same story and any users who read independent media.

      What's scary is that their disinformation is getting into the education system because "everybody" is reporting it except for those "fringe" independent websites that are

    7. Re:Modern examples by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Automatically believing something that the left-wing AND right-wing biased outlets

      100% of mainstream media outlets in the United States have a right wing bias. Yes, that includes MSDNC and National Pentagon Radio.

    8. Re:Modern examples by Kirth · · Score: 1

      "Liberal" Bias? No. They're just more centrist.

      It's like calling Hillary Clinton "Liberal", where she is clearly Authoritarian: https://www.politicalcompass.o...

      --
      "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
  14. Reaping what was sown by malkavian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Essentially, the education system has told a generation (or two now) that evidence doesnâ(TM)t matter. You donâ(TM)t have to be correct, rigorous or diligent in working out what the hell is going on; you just have to express yourself, be confident in your conviction and never let anyone tell you youâ(TM)re wrong. And in this pursuit of self affirmation, itâ(TM)s the worldâ(TM)s responsibility to keep you safe, no matter what you choose to do.
    So, now we arrive at a position where pseudoscience is running rampant, people arenâ(TM)t equipped with the critical thinking skills to delve deep and discern fact from fiction and relevance from irrelevance, and thereâ(TM)s an overwhelming attitude of opinion being the gold standard, and if thatâ(TM)s dangerously flawed itâ(TM)s someone elseâ(TM)s job to protect them from any consequences so they donâ(TM)t need to change their opinion.
    And now, again, itâ(TM)s âoeoutsourcing critical thinkingâ, conditioning people to believe even more that what they read must be true because an app hasnâ(TM)t flagged it as false.
    Critical thinking though be core in education, and everyone should be taught to debate. How to build logical progressions (and just as important, how to build false ones, so you can better spot the tricks others use when trying to manipulate you). How to win and lose gracefully. And how to exercise that marvellous tool we have called a brain, rather than switching it off and just using the mouth.

    1. Re:Reaping what was sown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When Hillary (Beto, Cortez) hangs, education can resume. That will be a massive lesson for them, mostly wasted, but it will be used to crush them over and over again. Amen.

      Educators know treasonous Democrat faggots must die for America to be great again - get ready, here it comes.

    2. Re:Reaping what was sown by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Essentially, the education system has told a generation (or two now) that evidence doesna(TM)t matter. You dona(TM)t have to be correct, rigorous or diligent in working out what the hell is going on; you just have to express yourself, be confident in your conviction and never let anyone tell you youa(TM)re wrong.

      I think you are looking at history through rose-tinted glasses. It's not like the 1950s, or the Victorian eras were the pinnacles of reason.

      The Victorian approach to education for example was to declare "facts" which may or may not have been completely wrong and could well have been based on a fetishisation of Antiquity, then hit you with a stick until you parroted them.

      Many of those "facts" survived a long time. Like the "fact" that the wheel is the greatest invention because there's no way that's an opinion or up for debate, and I seem to remember tht was in it's final muted death throes by the 1980s.

      So, now we arrive at a position where pseudoscience is running rampant,

      Is it more rampant than before? There's always been lots of pseudoscience.

      people arena(TM)t equipped with the critical thinking skills to delve deep and discern fact from fiction and relevance from irrelevance, and therea(TM)s an overwhelming attitude of opinion being the gold standard,

      I encourage you to read this story: http://central.gutenberg.org/a...

      It covers that fairly thoroghly and provides a solid skewing of social media. except it's from 1909. I think we can take it from that that these concerns and so behaviours are not new.

      Critical thinking though be core in education, and everyone should be taught to debate.

      Critical thinking certainly should yes. Debating well people should be taught about debating, to spot rhetorical tricks certainly. Being able to debate live isn't necessary to be able ot dissect a transcript after and spot the holes. I think the latter is more important than the former.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  15. The EU the new China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The EU the new China, yet many give them special treatment and let them off for doing the same things.

    1. Re:The EU the new China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 funny and ignorant

  16. Allow gullible people to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... increase transparency and fight fake accounts ...

    How does one know it's a fake account? Rather like 'Info wars', they are presenting a 'sky is falling' narrative, lacking official recognition or witnesses, as verified fact.

    On the one hand, Facebook, Twitter and others want their subscribers to create content that can easily peddle advertising. On the other, they have to disincentive-ize criminal activity and fake news. They made some fact-checking efforts for their news wall but the scale of fraud means it is ineffective. The violence, porn and nudity censors are overworked and traumatized by the recycled depravity they face daily. In both cases, when identified, the propagandists can resume activities under a new name, in minutes.

    This is made all the easier by a lack of a moderation/reputation scheme: Such a scheme will, twitter-storm excepted (which should cause a drop in their reputation) allow gullible people to see the level of disbelief caused by fake news.

  17. Good point, and testable by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    Automatically believing something that the left-wing AND right-wing biased outlets report on is still unwise, as it just means that outlets that lack critical reporting and are willing to publish regardless of truth merely have to agree to prioritize profits.[...]

    How about if, say, The Atlantic, BBC, Al Jazeera, and Christian Science Monitor all agree on something?

    That's a very good point.

    It would seem that Scott's idea is testable. Perhaps instead of using the top 4 networks, the idea should be studied over the course of a few months using all the major networks, and see if a combination - *any* combination - works as a fake news filter.

    It shouldn't be too hard to find, in retrospect, blatant mistakes like the Covington students, and then see which outlets got it right.

    1. Re:Good point, and testable by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

      "Blatant video editing" != "Blatant mistakes". Any one (with a neutral mind) would have not come up with the reported conclusion if they had seen the entire video. And responsible reporting would have watched the entire video.

  18. Leave Facebook, Twitter, and Google by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

    Problem solved.
    So-called 'social media' is CANCEROUS to our society. Get it out of your lives and profit thereby.

  19. IMHO: It isn't their job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It isn't always clear what articles are fake and what articles are real, regardless of what site the content is hosted on.

    I want an internet where all sides can be heard. If users want to comment that they think the article is fake, then go for it, but these sites are not and can-not be considered "fact checkers." Even Snopes sucks at it.

  20. Anabolik Steroid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.steroidybk.com

  21. Re: Also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    USsr matches better.

  22. Web is full of disinformation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The web is a haven for disinformation, I think that its up to every user of the web to decipher the facts. Maybe if mainstream media did a better job of journalism in the first place the crackpot's would be less legitimate. This is why the flat Earther's still exist, and the Alex Jones's and the anti Vaccine people. Bad Apple's exist because there is nobody who can find any good ones.

  23. yeah.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-02-26

    1. Re:yeah.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When it comes to delusional incel assholes, Adams is right up there. A useless Salford aggrandising nobody.

  24. Freedom is being killed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are watching freedom and reason being destroyed through the white world. The end game, in the distant future, is the enslavement of white people for the use of barbarians.

  25. Re: Breitbart faggots will never matter, lol. Sor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi friend, there are bo faggots on Breitbart since Milo was forced to resign by smear campaign. This is your final warning.

  26. censorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's only called disinfo when it's the other side trying to use their free speech. are people really so stupid they can't see what's being built here? slavebook/twatter + mac/windows users...yeah, we're fucked.

  27. Re:mentil = fake name massive human fail... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ooh look, the fat incel virgin APK is off his meds and having delusions of adequacy again.

  28. They learned their lesson after Iraq by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    The Bush Administration made very specific claims about Iraq that could be falsified, eventually. With Russiagate, it's a bunch of Gish Gallop bullshit that sees it's True Believers hop back and forth between debunked talking points, like climate changers. Put the high priests of Russiagate on the spot and they quickly lose their shit when pressed. Adam Schitt loses his shit when asked to look into the camera and say, on the record, that Russia was behind the phishing of the Podesta emails.