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Massive Database Leak Exposes China's 'Digital Surveillance State' (eff.org)

Long-time Slashdot reader retroworks shared this EFF article: Although relatively little news gets out of Xinjiang to the rest of the world, we've known for over a year that China has been testing facial-recognition tracking and alert systems across Xinjiang and mandating the collection of biometric data -- including DNA samples, voice samples, fingerprints, and iris scans -- from all residents between the ages of 12 and 65... Earlier this month, security researcher Victor Gevers found and disclosed an exposed database live-tracking the locations of about 2.6 million residents of Xinjiang, China, offering a window into what a digital surveillance state looks like in the 21st century...

Over a period of 24 hours, 6.7 million individual GPS coordinates were streamed to and collected by the database, linking individuals to various public camera streams and identification checkpoints associated with location tags such as "hotel," "mosque," and "police station." The GPS coordinates were all located within Xinjiang. This database is owned by the company SenseNets, a private AI company advertising facial recognition and crowd analysis technologies. A couple of days later, Gevers reported a second open database tracking the movement of millions of cars and pedestrians. Violations like jaywalking, speeding, and going through a red-light are detected, trigger the camera to take a photo, and ping a WeChat API, presumably to try and tie the event to an identity.

China may have a working surveillance program in Xinjiang, but it's a shockingly insecure security state. Anyone with an Internet connection had access to this massive honeypot of information... Even poorly-executed surveillance is massively expensive, and Beijing is no doubt telling the people of Xinjiang that these investments are being made in the name of their own security. But the truth, revealed only through security failures and careful security research, tells a different story: China's leaders seem to care little for the privacy, or the freedom, of millions of its citizens.

EFF also reports that a Chinese cybersecurity firm also recently discovered 468 exposed MongoDB servers on the internet, including databases containing detailed information about remote access consoles owned by China General Nuclear Power Group.

Meanwhile, ZDNet suggests that SenseNets may actually be "a government contractor, helping authorities track the Muslim minority, rather than a private company selling its product to another private entity. Otherwise, it would be hard to explain how SenseNets has access to ID card information and camera feeds from police stations and other government buildings."

72 comments

  1. Degenerates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Communists. Nuke em.

    1. Re:Degenerates by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      There are no communists.

      Try dictators.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:Degenerates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We could start with russia.

    3. Re: Degenerates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they will make a hot or not page with filters such as age, vender, current score etc :)

  2. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The glorious People's Republic and its loyal Communist Party has to keep track of all those evil conservatives somehow. We should learn from this.

    1. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Conservatists in China actually Maoists. The people that they worry about are the ones that push for liberal reforms. The terms conservative and liberal are relative to what is in place already.

    2. Re: Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The terms conservative and liberal are relative to what is in place already.

      Indeed. I learned this in 1991, when the attempt by hard-core communists to seize power in Russia was widely described as a "right wing" coup.

  3. Compete with North Korea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    China is really on its best way to get better than North Korea.

  4. I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    of how China oppresses it's people in creepy ways. I'm actually a bit surprised this didn't make /..

    One thing I haven't seen is so much as a peep about this from main stream media or a single politician. Calling out China's gov't is up there with showing a picture of Mohammad or pissing off Vladimir Putin in the list of "Shit you don't do".

    What annoys me is seeing folks call for "Regime Change" in Venezuela and Iran while they ignore China (and Saudi Arabia while we're at it). Hell, Xi has basically declared himself emperor for life and Trump didn't just say it was OK, he said we should do that too. Not a peep I tells ya.

    I know it's all about money (oil and cheap labor), but damn it pisses me off. Not the hypocrisy (pay a man that much and he doesn't care if you call him a hypocrite), but how they always get away with it.

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    1. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There has been but not in such direct ways. We've backed politicians in such a hole there isn't a response they can give that won't piss someone off. Trump is no exception. Had he come out against China it would have "offended" Chineese living in the US and seen as racist. See Mexico as an example.

      The only way to deal with it is by consiously refusing to accept it. Stop watching, reading, consuming media from organizations who insist on perpetuating the brainwash. More importantly TELL people why you're turning off the TV. Stop making bullshit reasons.

      There are people who stream on twitch from within countries like China, it's quite sad how careful they tiptoe around discussing what happens in China.

    2. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Informative

      What annoys me is seeing folks call for "Regime Change" in Venezuela and Iran while they ignore China

      China is a superpower. America is responsible to a large extent for what is happening in Venezuela and has long been the driving force in regime change in Iran, often through extremely direct intervention. We can't fix China (although we could stop enabling them so much) but we are responsible for much of the mess in the other countries you mentioned.

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    3. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by thomst · · Score: 4, Informative

      drinkypoo opined:

      America is responsible to a large extent for what is happening in Venezuela and has long been the driving force in regime change in Iran, often through extremely direct intervention. We can't fix China (although we could stop enabling them so much) but we are responsible for much of the mess in the other countries you mentioned.

      Let's see now:

      According to Wikipedia, venezuelanalysis.com has been funded by the Venezuelan goverment since it was founded in 2007 (when Hugo Chavez was president), despite claiming on its website since 2014 (after Maduro took over) that it is funded exclusively via donations from its readers. And the wife of its founder, Greg Wilpert, was appointed Consul General of Venezuela's New York consulate in 2008. So, it's hardly an objective or disinterested source.

      Wikipedia's article on mintpressnews.com highlights several ongoing controversies over issues of journalistic integrity (including falsely attributing co-authorship of an article on nerve gas attacks on Syrian citizens to a respected journalist who denies having co-written that article, and who has repeatedly demanded her name be removed from it, as well as falsely reporting an annual Shiite religious pilgrimage to Kerbala as a "march against ISIS"). The publication's masthead prominently features conspiracy mongers (including a strident proponent of the false and defamatory claim that the Sandy Hook shooting was staged, with actors hired to play the part of grieving parents, and that no children were actually killed there). Its sources of funding are undisclosed, although Mnar Muhawesh, its editor, now claims to be its sole investor, and that it is self-financing, via ad revenue (an extremely dubious claim, as anyone who is familiar with the paucity of legitimate advertising income available for online-only journalism ventures will attest). Her claims in this regard are impossible to verify, because, since 2015, she's made it impossible to contact her.

      The only even-faintly-legitimate source you cite is cepr.net, which is a self-described "progressive" think tank. But the actual link you provide is to an editorial piece, which is, by definition, an expression of the author's personal opinion, not actual reportage.

      In sum, you give us two propaganda outlets and an opinion piece in support of your argument that the USA is the party most responsible for "repressing" the people of Venezuela.

      Now, I'll grant you that we embargo oil imports from Venezuela, in continuation of a policy that dates back to the G. W. Bush administration. That, in itself really doesn't affect the country's economy, because it has plenty of other customers elsewhere. What does, very much, affect it is the crash in world oil prices over the past 3 years or so - and that is entirely due to Arab countries (led by Saudi Arabia) overproducing. So, supply and demand is the cause of Venezuela's financial woes.

      Well, that, and Maduro's insistence on printing money in an attempt to make up for the revenue shortfall, which has resulted in a disastrous hyperinflationary spiral that rivals Weimar Germany or modern Zimbabwe.

      Chavez was a charismatic charlatan, who was able to provide Venezuela's poor with a whole range of "free" benefits only because oil revenues were at historic highs during his reign (again, driven purely by supply and demand - although rampant speculation by commodity traders had a significant hand in that). Maduro, by contr

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    4. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back when S. Arabia was pumping out oil dropping oil to less than $30 a barrel, there were many foreign analysts who opined that the reason they were pumping out so much oil wasn't to harm US oil industry, but at the direction of the US to ultimately harm Venezuela and Russia.

      The whole point though is that inflation didn't run out of control until FURTHER US sanctions were placed such that Venezuela wasn't able to recover after oil prices had recovered.

    5. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let China be China.

      Worry more about America. Facebook is slowly boiling the pot across the globe and no one's doing anything about that.

      Trump tells outright lies and no one's doing anything about that.

      You're worrying about something that most people don't care about.

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    6. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wouldn't being seeing nearly as much coverage of China if the right wing of the west hadn't decided to take up Steve Bannon's ideology which points at China. We need an enemy and the old one is paying for right's bills so...we've always been at war with Eastasia.

    7. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by wwphx · · Score: 1

      Rats. I knew about Devotion a few days ago and forgot to try and buy a copy then, it's now not available in the USA. *sigh* I really wanted to buy a copy before it was "fixed".

      --
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    8. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people don't worry about 1.4 billion people living in a dictatorship with a growing surveillance state so the people in power can remain in power?

      Does slashdot even try anymore looking to out state-sponsored disinformation campaigns? Did they ever?

    9. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Funny

      Does slashdot even try anymore looking to out state-sponsored disinformation campaigns? Did they ever?

      I love this question and you know why?

      Because I know the answer: /. is not what you think it is. It's a news aggregator. It posts "News for nerds, stuff that matters."

      After a cursory glance you'll discover that members and AC, like yourself, comment on the news articles and stuff. /. is not a political investigative reporting site.

      That's the answer to your first question.

      The answer to the second is, "No, they never did."

      We here at /. are very aware that we have inconvenienced you and we sincerely apologize for your lack of understanding as to how this goddam motherfucking site works.

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    10. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook is slowly boiling the pot across the globe and no one's doing anything about that.

      Everyone knows global warming is a hoax. /s

    11. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      It's China: RED DANGER! COMMIES! (cold war feelings...)

    12. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hypocrisy you say? The most hypocritical country is definitely USA; the one country that commits various evil deeds under the guise the "freedom and democracy" If you are not a paid troll you really should read some real histories.

    13. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's China: RED DANGER! COMMIES! (cold war feelings...)

      You are a fool.

    14. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Can'tNot · · Score: 1

      The only even-faintly-legitimate source you cite is cepr.net, which is a self-described "progressive" think tank.

      I'm shocked. I know that the Center for Economic and Policy Research has been described by others as progressive, but I can't imagine them describing themselves that way. That just isn't done.

    15. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know damn well this 'news' is just carefully selected propaganda - oh im sorry, whats that - you expected objective reporting? Sure, if i own newspaper i will let my journalists write bad things about me or my 'friends' - of course - hahaha.. Amazing how naive (stupid?) people can be.

      'Powers that be' in China just do what they please and there is not a damn thing other countries can do about it - they don't depend on you.

      About regime changes - you really need to read more about history - i recommend 'regime changes' and need for 'liberation' in korea/south america - mysterious ways how elected representatives who weren't friendly died - and for more recent years of course 'regime changes' around middle east.

      And what is wrong with getting away with it? The 'top dog' always gets away with it - are you saying you are sorry you are not them or what precisely are you saying? The only way to stop this is stop pretending and buying into bullshit and tell everyone you know about it. But that would make you wacko or worse and you won't do that yes? So what exactly will you do? My guess is nothing.

    16. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Compare how careful politicians in power needed to be in the past (for example Nixon's checkers speech) to what is today - the game of corruption and plutocracy has advanced so much they don't really need to make an effort anymore. You just tell blatant lies and there is nobody stopping you in any way.

    17. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let China be China.

      No let's not.

    18. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by thomst · · Score: 1

      I averred:

      The only even-faintly-legitimate source you cite is cepr.net, which is a self-described "progressive" think tank.

      Prompting Can'tNot to object:

      I'm shocked. I know that the Center for Economic and Policy Research has been described by others as progressive, but I can't imagine them describing themselves that way. That just isn't done.

      Technically speaking, you are correct. However, On CEPR's About us page, under the heading Affiliations, they list only one link, to EARN, which describes itself as "a nationwide network of research, policy, and public engagement organizations fighting, state by state, for an economy that works for everyone."

      So, although you're correct that CEPR does not explicitly describe itself as a progressive organization, the fact that their only affiliate link is to an organization whose mission statement is an unqualified commitment to one of the key goals of U.S. progressives (and one that is absolutely not shared by any rightist organization), that seems to me to be a sufficiently-clear statement of an underlying progressivist philosophy on CEPR's part to leave no doubt about their willingness overtly to embrace it.

      But, you are correct that they don't explicitly state that they consider themselves to be a progressive organization, so, in fairness, I'm compelled to withdraw that statement, and I thank you for pointing out my overreach in that regard.

      FWIW - I identify as a "radical centrist" - and given that, when I lived in the SF Bay Area, I was called a fascist on more than one occasion, yet, now that I live in the heart of Trump country, I've been called a commie more than once, I think that self-ascribed "radical centrist" label is pretty much bang on ...

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    19. Re:I've been seening a lot of these stories lately by Can'tNot · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing with you, but... man. The idea that "an economy which works for everyone" would be such anathema to the entirety of the American right-wing... that's just sad.

      For your note at the bottom: I had a conversation with someone who was absolutely insistent that communism and fascism were effectively the same thing, and could not be convinced otherwise. I think there's a talking point going around trying to equate them. Regardless: you don't have to be radical, you just have to be in the outgroup.

  5. "Security state"? by Indiana+Joe · · Score: 0

    More like, "Insecurity state."

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  6. The most disgusting part... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    The most disgusting part, other than the fact that most people don't realize that the very same thing is happening "over here", is how you don't even need to be a brainwashed moron who walks around with a surveillance device anymore -- now it's all facial recognition, identifying your walking style and stuff like that. Things you cannot control without extreme measures. You simply cannot escape all these fucking cameras everywhere. It's literally making life a living nightmare. I cannot believe that so few of you care about this. It's completely beyond my comprehension.

    1. Re:The most disgusting part... by AlanObject · · Score: 3, Informative

      I cannot believe that so few of you care about this. It's completely beyond my comprehension.

      Actually there are a lot of people who care and and the ones that don't seem to care are not incomprehensible. Just stupid.

      Most people don't have the time to fight to try to roll back the security state. It is very easy to slide into complacency and shrug it all off (for now) with two bromides: 1) I'm a law abiding citizen so I have nothing to hide and 2) it is just bits in a computer somewhere that no human will look at anyway.

      I know from your post that you know why this shouldn't be acceptable but the vast majority of people crave security. They want the government to take care of them and be a force for "good" against the "bad" guys. To them this is just the police being better, higher-tech police.

      I'll bet that anyone reading this could not recite all the titles of the movies, TV shows, thriller novels they have seen where the hero caught the bad guy with some high-tech data system run by the government. Something that would totally appall the founding fathers of the U.S. who created laws against anyone opening your mail.

    2. Re:The most disgusting part... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I bet you have seen "Enemy of the State," which captures this future (and present) beautifully. Highly recommended.

    3. Re:The most disgusting part... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That captures the past, and it's a shit dreck movie lol. "Highly recommended" lol, gee, sorry anonymous tasteless Kendall, there are far better movies on the topic. I'm embarrassed for you.

    4. Re:The most disgusting part... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you offer a better one, then. As you responded, you look like a state-sponsored troll trying to dissuade posters from posting again.

      I'm embarrassed for you...if you could be embarrassed.

  7. Better than Blighty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    W0t? The Chinese has a better surveillance system than the UK? Better get Crapita to do an upgrade, stet.

  8. Damn! I am in it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Searched on "cool mofo" and up I popped!

  9. Um... America's a super power too ya know by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not saying we can fix China (as you point out we haven't exactly done gangbusters "helping" Venezuela) but we can give them a nudge in the right direction. That's what diplomacy is for. As it is we're ignoring that responsibility for the sake of a fast buck.

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    1. Re:Um... America's a super power too ya know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There has been a nudge in the right direction....capitalism says we need cheap labor and resources so carry on.
      As for diplomacy - corrupt to the core. Numerous examples out there. Diplomacy is now wholly about interests.

    2. Re:Um... America's a super power too ya know by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As it is we're ignoring that responsibility for the sake of a fast buck.

      That's how it works everywhere, which is why we are having a climate crisis. Cheeto Mussolini is as much a symptom as a cause. Hell, "ignoring responsibility for the sake of a fast buck" ought to be his motto. I bet it sounds better in Latin.

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    3. Re: Um... America's a super power too ya know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they just substitute one form of capitalism for another and give it a different name. Is it not standard procedure over the centuries?

    4. Re:Um... America's a super power too ya know by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      but we can give them a nudge in the right direction.

      You are overestimating American influence on Chinese society. Even nudging is going to have little effect, and will likely do more harm than good by tainting domestic reformers in China as foreign stooges.

    5. Re:Um... America's a super power too ya know by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

      What have we done to help America? It's going through precisely the same process.

      The Trump administration is corrupt and Trump tells outright lies and runs a mafia and no one is doing anything about that.

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    6. Re:Um... America's a super power too ya know by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      You insensitive clod.

      The guy has a goddam purple heart.

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  10. Don't be stupid. Stop being stupid already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    China is just too big to take on, so they can do as they please. And hey, if China can do it, then maybe politicians elsewhere can use that tech to keep the plebes under their thumb, so why pick that fight? There'll be useful cheap surveillance tech to buy later.

    I think we (as in the people living in ostensibly free countries) need to be very wary of what sort of surveillance tech gets rolled out and right now China is leading the pack in sheer scale and pervasiveness. "Our" politicians like what they see, so don't expect them to make a stink, especially not since China's so big and so easily ticked off. "We" shouldn't count on "our" politicians here, we should count on ourselves.

    It's not just Trump. Your elected presidents have been doing the meddling elsewhere thing for the last 80 years or so, and before that you lot already had a habit of doing stupid stuff first, not thinking later. So stop your politician-du-jour-bashing. The maga-hat-man isn't nearly as interesting as you think he is. He'll be gone in at most six years. It's the tech that's the problem. If it's here it won't go away ever, and it's coming to your general location too, and soon.

    1. Re:Don't be stupid. Stop being stupid already. by hey! · · Score: 2

      China may too big to take on, but the Chinese regime is not. If that were not true, then the regime would not be developing systems like this.

      I actually don't think the *intent* is to develop some kind of tyranny, although that may be the effect. The fear of political instability and social unrest runs deep. They are trying to create what in their mind is a better society, one that is safer and more orderly. People behave differently when they know they are being watched -- like drivers entering an area where they know there's a speed trap. When the whole highway becomes a speed trap, soon people will adapt by *internalizing* the speed limits.

      Eventually, the *impulse* to behave in socially or politically disruptive ways will disappear.

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    2. Re:Don't be stupid. Stop being stupid already. by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

      American leaders are not aghast at this revelation.

      They are envious.

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    3. Re:Don't be stupid. Stop being stupid already. by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      China may too big to take on, but the Chinese regime is not. If that were not true, then the regime would not be developing systems like this.

      Have you ever been to China? I've been studying Mandarin and can now speak it somewhat passably. And actual people in China like their government.

      And it's not just propaganda, Westerners grew up with books like "1984" that depict a crumbling bleak society. But that's opposite of what's happening in China - their economy grew by an order of magnitude during the last 30 years.

    4. Re:Don't be stupid. Stop being stupid already. by hey! · · Score: 1

      I am Chinese American, but I have never been. I cancelled my trip there in 1989, for obvious reasons.

      Of course the Chinese people think highly of the their government. Based on what they know, why wouldn't they?

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  11. China Builds Its Doom by sehlat · · Score: 1

    Societies, like any other living thing, must be able to evolve and adapt to new conditions or they die. What China's Big Brother are doing doing gives their powers-that-be all the tools they need to suppress any social change they disagree with. Historically, the powers-that-be see ANY change as threatening to their monopoly on power. Rulers always try to stifle change, but in the long run, it's the ones who fail (cf. American Revolution, 1776) who benefit most. (cf. World War II, Britain vs. Nazi Germany)

    China is putting social change into a deep freeze. In the long run, that will destroy their empire.

  12. JUST ANOTHER PUBLIC MANIPULATION ATTEMPT!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real people of public are NOT obsessed w/ privacy, unlike what EFF & similar self-appointed "Privacy Advocates/Watchdogs" trying to portray!!!
    We live in an age when almost everybody carrying (video) camera/mic built-into their phones everywhere & public is ok w/ that!!!

    Do you know who really really really care about privacy (against government surveliance)?
    Criminals!!! People who are always trying to use internet/smartphones for illegal actions!!!
    & IMHO, those are the real people, ANTI-GOVERNMENT (aka) ANARCHISTS, like EFF & ACLU & similar self-appointed/elected "Privacy Advocates/Watchdogs" trying to really protect always!!!

    (If any public info databases left unprotected by any governmnet, then, that is just a technical problem to fix!!! Private companies also often make similar mistakes; not only governments!!!)

  13. braindead affectation by epine · · Score: 2

    But the truth, revealed only through security failures and careful security research, tells a different story: China's leaders seem to care little for the privacy, or the freedom, of millions of its citizens.

    Wrong bullhorn.

    Apathy is not the issue here. Cynicism is not the issue here.

    The Chinese authorities have an outright death wish for the individual freedoms of China's many citizens.

  14. The benefits weren't free by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Chavez took the oil money and used it to modernize his country instead of pocketing it all for himself. That's up there with George Washington turning down the position of King of America for WTF moments in the history of leadership. And yeah, I'm sure Chavez did a lot of awful things to get in and stay in his position. Venezuela was a hell hole before the oil money, but the fact that he didn't just keep it all for himself and his cronies (they way the Sauds do) deserves praise.

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    1. Re:The benefits weren't free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The problem with that narrative is that it misses the point. Resource rich countries have to, in the long term, not merely modernize their country but diversify their economy to a wide base. A large reason why the USSR collapsed was because of too much reliance on oil sales. Even today, Russia is heavily reliant on natural gas sales, though it's not nearly as bad as it was. Iran learned from this and it's one reason sanctions don't have near the same effect there. North Korea has an absolute brutal regime to suppress people that has basically constantly kept standards to low it's hard to gain a desire for result. Saudi Arabia has such massive amounts of oil and managed to stay on the good side of the EU and the US so it may live off oil for a long while--sanctioned would cripple it. China has heavily focused on diversifying its base, but it's still heavily dependent on outside consumption because it's trying to lift so many people out of poverty/rural farming that internal consumption is not enough to maintain the expected growth and social stability; the USSR proves China's efforts, including talk about internalizing the threat of surveillance, is not effective. Finally back to Venezuela, if Chavez had done a remotely better job diversifying Venezuela then the collapse of oil prices wouldn't had nearly the same effect on the country; he doesn't get bonus points just because he was, by third world countries, not especially a kleptomaniac.

    2. Re:The benefits weren't free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Chavez took the oil money and used it to modernize his country

      No, he took the oil money and used it to fund the same socialist/communist policies that destroyed dozens of economies. He didn't even do anything new. Just the same old crap that has caused failed states all around the world.

    3. Re:The benefits weren't free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At the time of his death in 2013, Hugo Chavez was worth an estimated $1 billion, in known assets. His family is estimated to be worth almost another $1 billion more.

      While that's not a lot of money compared to the economy of Venezuela as a whole, don't pretend for a moment that Chavez and his family (and all their friends) didn't make out like bandits during their time in power.

    4. Re:The benefits weren't free by thomst · · Score: 3, Insightful

      rsilvergun opined:

      Chavez took the oil money and used it to modernize his country instead of pocketing it all for himself. That's up there with George Washington turning down the position of King of America for WTF moments in the history of leadership. And yeah, I'm sure Chavez did a lot of awful things to get in and stay in his position. Venezuela was a hell hole before the oil money, but the fact that he didn't just keep it all for himself and his cronies (they way the Sauds do) deserves praise.

      I think comparing Hugo Chavez with George Washington is just a little off the mark.

      And to say he "modernized" Venezuela is equally wrong. (The Telegraph article I linked to mentions in passing that the streets of the town in which Chavez was born are still paved with dirt, for instance.) What he did do is to subsidize he country's poor - especially their costs for food and fuel - using state oil revenues, which won him their love and undying support. It's probably fair to claim that he was less corrupt than the House of Saud, but, then again, that's not really saying much.

      Chavez was a very clever authoritatian. Maduro is simply a thug - and a particularly dimwitted thug, at that ...

      --
      Check out my novel.
    5. Re:The benefits weren't free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      communist/socialist policies, like Germany under Otto von Bismark? Post-WW2 France? The Alaska Permanent Fund? Finland etc.? The US and its food stamps and Social Security and crap?

    6. Re:The benefits weren't free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Social policies and socialist policies are different things. Are you too ignorant to know the difference or just evil and want the mass murders to start again?

  15. Well, duh! by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

    China's leaders seem to care little for the privacy, or the freedom, of millions of its citizens.

    There's no "seem" about it - they don't care, and everybody and his dog knows it. I'm sure even the most naive of Chinese citizens are under no illusion that their government gives a rat's ass about their welfare at all, much less their privacy or freedom.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    1. Re:Well, duh! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I'm sure even the most naive of Chinese citizens are under no illusion that their government gives a rat's ass about their welfare at all, much less their privacy or freedom.

      I'd have thought the same, but by most eyewitness accounts, people do seem to think that their government has their best interests in mind. Most of them aren't even aware of what's being done to them. To them, Tienanmen square is just a place, because China has been so effective at removing dissent (by removing dissenters.) And they've been raised not to believe in privacy or freedom.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Well, duh! by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      To them, Tienanmen square is just a place, because China has been so effective at removing dissent (by removing dissenters)

      Pretty much all Chinese people (except maybe for really young millenials) know about Tiananmen square rebellion. They just think that the government did the right thing and put down the rabble-rouses.

  16. Haystacks with mainenance costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like there's a kind of like... cost benefit kinda thing that actually makes these things more expensive than the list price, but many times over... and as a bonus none of the population trust you after the tech mistakes start becoming obvious.

    It's not always the edge cases, but damn those edge cases are almost all going to bite them.

  17. China is taking advantage of Trump & Brexit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the U.S., Trump is sucking up all the oxygen into his dumpster fire, and in Europe, Brexit and Syria are dominating international diplomacy.

    And all of these trace back to Russia in one way or another, so people's attention is there.

    When the cat's away, the mice will play.

    China knows an opportunity when it sees one, and it's aggressively using the one it has now to flex its muscles in various ways and establish a new norm for its behaviour.

  18. Forget it, Jake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's China.

  19. I like how an article about Chinese Databases by Jarwulf · · Score: 1

    has somehow devolved into a Trump bashfest.

  20. The West doesn't understand China like they do us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't blame Trump, per se. I blame the ideology that put him in power and the people that promulgate same. Steve Bannon. The anti-tax guy. John Bolton. The absolute hatred the American right has for any semblance of a social safety net. The fact that the US is the only developed nation that has citizens that go broke to get "health care". I grew up in Europe, and while it's not perfect over there, life in Europe has a better and higher quality to it. I live in the US now, and I've seen both sides. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I'll take America's freedoms and Europe's social aspects. If we could only combine the two.

    China is what it is because China specifically, and Asia in general, embrace Confusianism. China's leaders are in love with the legalist philosophers like Han Fei Zi and others, and their leadership reflects this. In fact, Xi is a great admirer of people like Han Fei Zi. Once the west understands the underpinnings, it's easy to grasp. I spend almost 10 years in the American Marine Corps. Sun Tzu's Art of War was required reading in NCO School. The Marines quoted him like Baptists quote the Bible. Norman Schwarzkopf based his battles on elements from the Art of War. The Chinese see the west as weak because we don't hold the the legalism principles they hold dear.

  21. Re: I've been seening a lot of these stories latel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hilary would have had an effective strategy on exactly this.

  22. So they're Google now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something something Don't Be Evil.