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Report Finds Widespread Contamination at Nation's Coal Ash Sites (washingtonpost.com)

Nearly all 250 coal-fired plants in operation in the U.S. have leaked chemicals and contaminated the local groundwater supply with toxins [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; you can check the alternative source, and original report (PDF)], according to a report released this week by environmental groups Environmental Integrity Project and Earthjustice. From a report: The report found that 91 percent of the nation's coal-fired power plants reported elevated levels of contaminants such as arsenic, lithium, chromium and other pollutants in nearby groundwater. In many cases, the levels of toxic contaminants that had leaked into groundwater were far higher than the thresholds set by the Environmental Protection Agency, the groups said.

The examples span the country. At a family ranch south of San Antonio, a dozen pollutants have leaked from a nearby coal ash dump, data showed. Groundwater at one Maryland landfill that contains ash from three coal plants was contaminated with eight pollutants. In Pennsylvania, levels of arsenic in the groundwater near a former coal plant were several hundred times the level the EPA considers safe for drinking. The voluminous data became publicly available for the first time last year because of a 2015 regulation that required disclosures by the overwhelming majority of coal plants.

123 comments

  1. In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Seriously, this is a fact. There is toxic coal ash from coal plants in the groundwater of just about every single state. They claimed this could never happen, we needed to deregulate, now here it is. Prepare for the lies, here they come.

    1. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Who claimed this could never happen? Stop generalizing. Name the Republican.

    2. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "toxic coal ash" is actually trump p00p.

    3. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      https://www.newscientist.com/article/2173680-six-pollution-policies-gutted-by-scott-pruitt-and-what-happens-next/
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-25/here-s-a-scorecard-of-the-scott-pruitt-investigations-quicktake
      https://earthjustice.org/blog/2018-april/scott-pruitt-doesn-t-play-by-the-rules-and-he-still-can-t-win
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/03/09/on-climate-change-scott-pruitt-contradicts-the-epas-own-website/
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/09/epa-scott-pruitt-abandon-clean-power-plan-obama

      https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304360

      "New EPA leadership has thus far aimed at deconstructing, rather than reconstructing, the agency by comprehensively undermining many of the agency's rules, programs, and policies while also severely undercutting its budget, work capacity, internal operations and morale," concluded the study, titled "The Environmental Protection Agency in the Early Trump Administration: Prelude to Regulatory Capture."

      The study, part of the American Journal of Public Health's special issue on climate change, adds to the mounting scrutiny and criticism of EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt's policy, personnel and operational decisions, which sometimes weave together.

      For instance, the study suggests that the undermining of the EPA's public health mission is enabled in part by Pruitt and his aides making policy decisions with little input from longtime staff and scientists.

      Such isolation is cemented by "the extraordinary lengths that Pruitt has [gone to] to preserve secrecy and autonomy from the EPA career staff, such as cordoning his office wing off from career employees, reportedly forbidding note taking at some meetings and employing 24-hour armed guards," the report said. The study was accepted by the peer-reviewed journal in February of this year, before some of the recent scandals around Pruitt had surfaced, including his condo rental from the wife of a lobbyist. He currently faces at least 10 (14!) investigations from his EPA tenure.

    4. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      So what your saying these are all new leaks and didn't happen when Democrats ran the EPA? Gotcha.

    5. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Learn your from you're. I'm saying the Democrats pushed for the EPA to do its job of regulating this, and "deregulate it all" assholes (mostly republicans but there are a few dem morons too, Manchin, etc) won out short-term and sold out our country.

      Coal barons don't care if you have contaminated water, they're billionaires. They import Evian by the truckload, you Republican pawns in West Virginia get to drink the tar for all they care.

      Stop being a (lol, quasi) useful tool of pollution apologists. Stop polluting yourself willfully. There's nothing patriotic about being a sellout or liar, GOP.
         

    6. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's that lying republican. OP didn't even have to say it three times before you showed up.

    7. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Zorro · · Score: 0

      It took years for anything to get down to the groundwater. Likely it has been seeping down since the 1960s to show up now.

    8. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, no. Wrong. It takes roughly 1 year for groundwater to enter the tappable aquifer depending on topography. However it has been going on that long, so that part is not wrong.

    9. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see the problem. Make the companies clean the ground water. If they run out of money, put the owners in jail for attempted murder.

    10. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, most of the really bad pollutants went into the air instead. Check mercury downwind of all these plants....I did.

    11. Re: In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck with your pipe dream.

    12. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nuclear plants = socialism.

    13. Re:In before Republicans lie. by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      No need to lie, without burning that coal we'd be living in poverty and have short lives. the benefits far outweighed the negatives, fossil fuel use built our civilization.

    14. Re:In before Republicans lie. by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 1

      Whoever is screwing the EPA is not getting my vote or anybody I can convince otherwise. Without the EPA we'd all be drinking tar and breathing smog.

    15. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      The "owners" mostly consist of retired people in the form of shareholders. You may get some pushback from that plan when you go to cuff Granny.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    16. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Shotgun · · Score: 0

      There's also nothing patriotic about being an ungrateful ignoramus denying her own role in society. The coal was burned to create electricity that you wanted and society demanded. Your hands are as dirty as the roughest coal miner.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    17. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ungrateful ignoramus denying her own role in society.

      Shotgun has a vagina?

    18. Re: In before Republicans lie. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      I know it may be seen as such a waste of something dense, reactive and dangerous but what if I told you that you could nuke for electricity!?

    19. Re: In before Republicans lie. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Nuclear?

    20. Re: In before Republicans lie. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Or you could had used slaves. Renewable and ecological.

    21. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 2

      Riiiight. So that means we shouldn't regulate it at all. Makes perfect sense.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    22. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Solandri · · Score: 2
      The report is an analysis of data that power companies were required to publish in March 2018.

      EPA in 2015 finalized the first federal regulation for the disposal of coal ash â" often called the âoeCoal Ash Rule.â Among other things, the Coal Ash Rule established groundwater monitoring requirements for coal ash dumps, and it required power companies to make the data available to the public starting in March 2018.

      The nonprofit Environmental Integrity Project (EIP), in collaboration with Earthjustice, the Sierra Club, Prairie Rivers Network, and other organizations, obtained and analyzed all of the groundwater monitoring data that power companies posted on their websites in 2018.

      Unless your claim is that the entirety of this contamination happened in just the 13 months from Feb 2017 to Mar 2018, Trump's EPA appointments and policies have nothing to do with this. Coal ash has always been toxic sludge, and containing it safely has always been a problem.

      IMHO, the real culprit here is the environmental movement. They opposed transitioning from coal to nuclear power in the late 20th century, instead trying to use coal's terrible nature as leverage for switching to renewables. Nuclear provided an alternative to coal, so needed to be vilified to preserve the narrative. In 2016 we burned about 728 million tons of coal per year and generated about 130 million tons of coal ash. (The rest of the mass gets discharged into the air, where lucky you and me get to breathe it.) Coal ash has a density of about 1.6 kg/liter, so this is enough coal ash generated every year to fill roughly 230 oil tankers (at 320,000 m^3).

      The nuclear reactors in the U.S. generate about 2200 tons of spent fuel each year, or about 104 cubic meters. Nuclear generates about 20% of our electricity vs about 30% for coal, so replacing coal with nuclear would've generated about 156 cubic meters of spent fuel. That's about enough to fill two tractor trailers (though you don't want to pack it that closely or it would start fissioning again).

      230 oil tankers of coal ash vs 2 tractor trailers of spent nuclear fuel per year. That's the choice we had, and the environmental movement made us pick the 230 oil tankers of coal ash by forcing nuclear off the table.

      The sum total of nuclear waste the U.S. has produced in 60 years of nuclear power is only about 80,000 tons. About one and a half olympic-sized swimming pools by volume. That's why the nuclear power industry isn't panicking over the lack of a long-term waste storage site. There's so little waste that they're just storing decades worth of it in pools at the plants themselves. And this waste still has most of its energy in it. The U.S. banned reprocessing in the 1970s (one of the byproducts is weapons grade plutonium). As a consequence, our "spent fuel" still has about 97% of uranium's energy still in it. That's why it stays dangerous for tens of thousands of years. Reprocessing can get that energy utilization from 3% to over 60%, resulting in spent fuel which only stays dangerous for centuries. We just have to figure a way to safely control or dispose of the weapons grade plutonium.

    23. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your mother.

    24. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      You can get me some Brontosaurus ribs and drop them off on the way home.

      The Flintstones is NOT a documentary. The world is not flat either. Get your head out of your ass.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    25. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Curious if you're a liar or just stupid? Your links do not support your claims, not... even... close...
      Two links don't address anything you claim, one doesn't work, and two others reference the rollback of the Clean Power Plan.

      What's entertaining is that you obviously believe this meant that some existing restriction was relieved. You would be wrong. If you were less stupid you would know that this rollback just pushed back by 18 months the implementation of coal ash pond restrictions. End result, there's NOTHING that the current EPA has done that would have enhanced coal ash penetration into the water table. MOREOVER you provided ZERO evidence of ANY Republican being responsible for groundwater penetration.

      You are a zealot and an idiot. If you really care about the country and the planet (as is implied in your rant) go find a nice tree and hang yourself from it. That is by far the largest positive impact you could ever hope to have on the world.

    26. Re:In before Republicans lie. by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      You seem to be utterly ignorant of history, engineering and science. You have nothing that supports your sarcastic view while I have centuries of progress and increase in human lifespan, health and happiness on mine.

      You are the one with your head up your ass.

    27. Re: In before Republicans lie. by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Yes civilization recently started using nuclear and other types of power... 80% comes from fossil fuel though.

      I do support moving to non-polluting fuel, that's within our reach now. But I was only speaking of centuries of progress made with fossil fuel power.

    28. Re:In before Republicans lie. by shilly · · Score: 1

      We just have to figure a way to safely control or dispose of the weapons grade plutonium.

      There ought to be some sort of prize for your use of the word "just" in that sentence.

    29. Re:In before Republicans lie. by shilly · · Score: 1

      What you have is all of us selling our birthright for a mess of pottage. The pottage contained longer life for now, better health for now, somewhat greater happiness for now. The birthright was a functioning climate and a planet free of coal ash, mercury, etc.

    30. Re:In before Republicans lie. by necro81 · · Score: 1

      fossil fuel use built our civilization

      I see you used the past tense: "built". Then you would probably agree that, while fossil fuel jumpstarted our technological society to its present state, that is not a justification for its continued use indefinitely (until they run out.) In other words: it's time to move on. Furthermore, while fossil fuels' relative abundance got industrialization rolling at a tremendous pace, it made us complacent and inefficient about how we use energy. Again: we claim to be a smart species, let's wise up and do better.

    31. Re: In before Republicans lie. by aliquis · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      All our nuclear power plants was made 1972-1985, so there's been none for made for the last 34 years and they started showing up 47 years ago.

      (That power do pollute too but less, then again wind- and watermills are older, and we still make almost half of our electricity using hydro power.)

    32. Re:In before Republicans lie. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Your hands are as dirty as the roughest coal miner.

      Yes and No. In general, it was not civilians that decided on Coal for electricity.
      However, it was foolish far lefties that screamed against Nukes.
      Then they screamed against Coal.
      Now they will scream against nat gas, since Nat gas, semi-trucks and planes are America's growing sources of CO2/pollution (interestingly, as I pointed out before, automotives did NOT cause America's CO2 increase this last year).
      And all of that with EVERYBODY esp the far righties, scream that the costs are too high, OR that they oppose one form or another.

      Fact is, if we want CLEAN energy/air/water, then we need to stop all fossil fuels. We can not stop them overnight, BUT, we can and more importantly SHOULD stop adding fossil fuel plants. For electricity, that means, wind/solar (up to a point), Nuclear, hydropower (which America has almost maxed out), geo-thermal (which America has loads of and really needs to implement SOON), and of course, MORE Nuclear power. problem is, wind/solar can NOT do 100% (in spite of the far left lies), and in fact, should not be allowed past 1/3 of our energy matrix. And ideally, this should be on buildings covering their HVAC and more.

      Who is ultimately responsible? The energy ppl and gov that decided to go with 1 form or another of energy, but all of our hands are dirty.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    33. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking as someone who has lived in WV for my entire life, most of these redneck fuckers around seem to be born with severe lead poisoning.

    34. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " they're just storing decades worth of it in pools at the plants themselves"

      This sounds a lot like the problem we have now but only worse. Aren't these coal fired plants just storing decades worth of coal ash in pools at the plants themselves.

    35. Re:In before Republicans lie. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep your government forced you to be so dirty. Much more powerful than weak European governments that didn't force their populations to be as dirty.

      interestingly, as I pointed out before, automotives did NOT cause America's CO2 increase this last year

      Where did you point this out?
      Based on what evidence?
      We have to ask, since you bullshit and make up things all the time. Were you honest this one time?

    36. Re: In before Republicans lie. by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      Sweden isn't the norm though, I was speaking of planet earth, which gets 80% its power from fossil fuel, centuries into the industrial revolution. Sure, I'd like that to change but reality can't be denied.

  2. Lithium? by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    We need to dig this stuff up and extract that vital resource.

  3. Trump will fix it, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He will just repeal the act making them publish the data.

  4. Extra info by Vanyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here is a link to a website by the company that did this report https://ashtracker.org/ Cool stuff.

  5. Isn't this covered by clean coal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or did the companies use the wrong soap to clean their coal?

  6. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    True. But Fukushima isn't the water table in 48 states, from which we are now drinking. Coal contamination is a big problem, assuming you don't want a nation of Mercury/Lead contaminated Republican blank-shooting retards exclusively.

  7. Blame the green lobby by Ashthon · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    The green lobby is so fanatically anti-nuclear they'd prefer we continue burning coal than switch to nuclear. We could have stopped burning coal decades ago if it weren't for them standing in the way of progress.

    Now they want us to switch to expensive, inconsistent, polluting renewable. I say polluting because renewable cause significant pollution during mining of the vast resources required to construct of large wind/solar farms, cause further pollution during manufacture and then yet more during disposal after their short lifespan is up.

    Despite the obvious benefits of nuclear, the green lobby continue with their irrationality. A quick google search reveals an anti-nuclear article by Earthjustice, who carried out this study:

    https://earthjustice.org/blog/2009-september/renewable-nuclear

    The green lobby's anti-nuclear stance has done massive damage to the environment, and for that reason alone we should ignore them. We need an adult debate based on rational decision making, not fanatical, tree-hugging hippies.

    1. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now they want us to switch to expensive, inconsistent, polluting renewable.

      Electrical supply from renewables need not be consistent when electrical demand isn't consistent.

      The other issues (expensive and polluting) are not unique to renewables, especially when you factor in environmental cleanup costs!

    2. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative


      We could have stopped burning coal decades ago if it weren't for them standing in the way of progress.

      This is utterly ridiculous. Existing nuclear plants are closing left/right because it's not profitable to keep them open. This has nothing to do with the "green lobby", which has so little power it can't even stop crap like coal ash contamination. Nuclear can't compete with cheap natural gas right now.

      The real reason Nuclear didn't take off was economic. The plants are crazy expensive, take decades to build, and nobody wants to fund them. The idea there's some "green lobby" with magical powers that's stopping it all is laughable.

      Oh, and you left out the fact that coal plants are ALSO closing left/right because of natural gas and phracking!

      You pro-nuclear people think the only power source in the world is either Coal or Nuclear.

    3. Re:Blame the green lobby by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      We need an adult agreement based on rational decision making...

      Alas, the type of get-together required will be deemed illegal by the current powers that be.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    4. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The resistance of nuclear power is complicated bunch of historical and ideological reasons. Unraveling some of that might help to convince the fanatics of their misplaced fervor. Some of it is anti-big government, some of it is cold war communist infiltrator seeded propaganda, some of it is Rousseauist feelings of returning to nature, with sometimes much darker murderous, nihilistic and apocalyptic undertones, some of it is nimby from previous accidents, and so on and on.

    5. Re:Blame the green lobby by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      ...The green lobby's anti-nuclear stance has done massive damage to the environment

      since we're all seemingly stuck in over-exaggerate mode ....
      Compare the actual physical damage done by dumping 110 million tons of coal ash into our back yards vs a few lobbyists sitting around chatting about nuclear power with congressional staffers over expensive lattes.
      Interview the people who lived near Fukushima Daiichi and Chernobyl for a human perspective on nuclear power. Maybe concentrate on the survivors, as the dead tell no tales.

      The Nuclear biz more or less shot itself in the foot. It doesn't take any effort to point out the hazards of a nuclear accident, which is a real shame as some countries have used nuclear power safely for years. The US could too if we'd all just take a deep breath and evaluate modern nuclear generation technology vs 70 year old technology.

      I can't dispute "polluting renewables" since I don't have any actual facts on the "significant pollution" incurred along the solar-cell supply chain. Personally, I've always suspected the squeaky-clean facade that solar claims. IMHO that's denial of what happens in the manufacturing cycle. I wonder if some of that could be factored out of the equation because competing energy sources will have similar problems.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    6. Re:Blame the green lobby by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      We need an adult agreement based on rational decision making...

      Alas, the type of get-together required will be deemed illegal by the current powers that be.

      The powers that be are out to exterminate each other. Rationality is dead and buried. The adults are suffering from Alzheimers.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    7. Re:Blame the green lobby by lgw · · Score: 0

      Compare the actual physical damage done by dumping 110 million tons of coal ash into our back yards vs a few lobbyists sitting around chatting about nuclear power with congressional staffers over expensive lattes.
      Interview the people who lived near Fukushima Daiichi and Chernobyl for a human perspective on nuclear power. Maybe concentrate on the survivors, as the dead tell no tales.

      Yes, let's compare nuclear and coal.

      Per Wikipedia there were fewer than 10,000 deaths from Chernobyl.

      Per the US Dept of Labor2016 was the first year with fewer than 100,000 coal miner deaths in the US. The peak 100 years ago was nearly 1 million per year.

      So, yeah, lets compare 10,000 deaths from nuclear power to 10,000,000 deaths just from coal mining alone. I just can't believe how irrational people are about this topic.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    8. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not particularly a friend of the green lobby, and in fact a nuclear worker. But no one entity is at fault unless that entity is "all of you wanting a higher living standard via the use of more energy than anywhere else on the planet, by a huge factor, per capita". Not one erg of energy is generated by whatever means without demand for it. If you conserve, they burn less of whatever fuel. It's been in everyone's hands all along, just vote with the off switch. But no, that would mean you can't blame it on someone else! We can't have responsibility either in ourselves or our governance if it doesn't fart rainbows and give us a pony - this much is obvious.
      Once the plebs learn they can vote themselves bread and circuses, particularly on "other people's money" eg generations yet unborn being taxed with out representation, it's over for your society. Stick a fork in it, people.

    9. Re: Blame the green lobby by Shotgun · · Score: 0

      If there weren't all these poor brown people like me, the rich white men wouldn't burn the coal to make the electricity that we're both using to run these computers to have a discussion about how evil these rich white men are for providing us with the privilege.

      Quit trying to put the blame for your own actions off on somebody else. The coal plants were built and operated, because WE, as a society, WANTED them built and operated. I bet you're even using electric to heat your home and cook your food. What do you think the world would look like if we were all still using wood stoves for the same?

      Fucking ingrates.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    10. Re:Blame the green lobby by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Interview the people who lived near Fukushima Daiichi and Chernobyl for a human perspective on nuclear power. Maybe concentrate on the survivors, as the dead tell no tales.

      Hmm...survivors of Fukushima: everyone who was there, but for one guy who died last year. Okay, should be pretty easy to talk to the survivors, since pretty much everyone over eight is still doing fine.

      Survivors of Chernobyl: that one is a bit harder, what with the Soviet Union not liking to admit errors. That said, two immediate deaths in the plant (well, nearly immediate - one guy took the best part of a month to die), plus a hundred-odd people with some level of radiation poisoning, of which 28 died within a few months, and another dozen or so within ten years.

      In addition, there have been FIFTEEN (15) more childhood deaths have occurred than expected among the five million+ people in the areas affected by Chernobyl.

      So, the two worst nuclear accidents in history have, so far, produced in the range of 60 deaths. For reference, there were 46000+ motor vehicle deaths in the USA the year of the Chernobyl incident. An average of about 130 per day.

      So, for all that Chernobyl and Fukushima were the worst nuclear power disaster in the history of the world (to date, the only ones that produced any fatalities), they suffered fewer deaths than happened on the roads in the USA any random day in 1986. Or, in fact, any random day in any year since I was born.

      An interesting bit of trivia: in the five years after Chernobyl, more people died on the roads of the USA than died in all the nuclear power accidents in history, even if you count the atom-bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as "nuclear power accidents".

      Of course, in the 20th century, more Americans died on the highways than died in WW1 & 2 combined (more than in all the wars we were involved in in the 20th century, in fact).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:Blame the green lobby by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Green energy has the DNA of fossil fuels.

      We don't use green to extract, process, maintain, repair, and recycle green.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    12. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, I've got a Great Idea. Let's deregulate nuclear energy so it gets cheaper! I am sure the billionaires would not cut corners or equipment or maintenance, would they?

    13. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you like the government version? Cause enviros have been bitching about it for years.

      Take your pick - government run hell or corporate run hell. You don't get another choice here.

    14. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nuclear is the only viable long-term power source that doesn't run on something black that comes out of the ground. It simply was killed by the environmentalist movement with the help of general technophobia and the failures of antique technology, which was kept around largely due to regulation making replacing it impossible.

      Stop lying.

    15. Re: Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We use to throw shit out the window too. We have advanced since then. Maybe you can too.

      The coal barons should be forced to pay for the cleanup from the profits they have accumulated. If that leaves them broke, so be it. Most people would love to have had a few generations of billionaire lifestyle and connections before they are broke. Beats the regular kind of broke.

    16. Re:Blame the green lobby by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Nuclear can't compete with cheap natural gas right now.

      No, it's wind and solar subsidies killing nuclear power right now. Here's just one of many recent articles discussing the issue:
      https://www.city-journal.org/a...

      Nuclear and natural gas don't really compete with each other. Nuclear is a base load electrical source, and that's about all it can do. Natural gas is far more versatile, being used for base load power in combined cycle power plants, peaking power in single cycle power plants, as heating for industrial and residential spaces, cooking fuel, vehicle fuel, feed stock for a number of chemicals, and I'm probably missing a lot. The one other place that nuclear power is used with any regularity is a very small market, naval propulsion.

      Because of the "cheap" wind and solar we are seeing natural gas power plants being predominately the quick to cycle on and off single cycle type. These are not cheaper than nuclear power. Even the combined cycle plants aren't all that cheap compared to nuclear, the margin between the two is small and it would likely take just a small shift in the energy markets to flip the two.

      I keep being "corrected" on how wind and solar are the cheapest energy sources we have available to us. Okay then, what's stopping them from dominating the market? Why do they continue to demand government subsidies? Why did I see on the news tonight that a local utility was hiking their rates to pay for more wind and solar? If wind and solar is cheaper than everything else then the utilities would not be raising rates. If it's cheaper then the utilities should not be forced to raise their rates by government mandates to use more wind and solar.

      Nuclear and natural gas don't compete, they overlap a bit but that doesn't define competition. Solar and wind doesn't compete with natural gas either. If it wasn't for cheap natural gas then we wouldn't even be considering solar and wind, we need that natural gas to provide power when the wind is calm and the solar panels are under 2 feet of snow.

      Nuclear is being legislated out of existence. It won't work. In the end we need energy and when the promise of a solar and wind powered future fails then we will build more nuclear power plants again. We have already seen it fail to launch, even with the path cleared of the competition as best they could.

      You pro-nuclear people think the only power source in the world is either Coal or Nuclear.

      Given that the world has been powered by coal and nuclear for nearly a century now it's kind of difficult to imagine otherwise. Solar and wind has promised to replace both for 50 years or more. When can we expect this transition to actually happen?

      If "you solar and wind people" actually believed what you claim, that solar and wind are cheaper than nuclear, then why the mandates for subsidies and bans on new nuclear? Let the market play out. If you believed what you say then why the need for slanting the playing field in your favor through legislation?

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    17. Re:Blame the green lobby by notaspy · · Score: 1

      You've misread the DOL chart.
      2016 was the first year with fewer than 100,000 coal miners.
      There were 8 fatalites in 2016, down from a high of over 3,000 in 1907.

      --
      hi!
    18. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a lovely collection of outright bull shit. Nuclear is nothing but subsidies. Always years behind schedule and billions over already bloated budget. Then if they are ever completed the operational costs are so high the plants are unable to provide power at anything near competitive costs.
      That is the singular reason for nuclear powers failure to be relevant.
      And this is all before dealing with the toxic residue and leaks which weirdly always get the same, "riSK iS OvEr bLOwN!11!!!1!!!1", as coal.

    19. Re:Blame the green lobby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China and Russia can and do build nuclear plants in a reasonable timeframe for a reasonable cost. The US and UK are having difficulties doing that lately. The reason is red tape. Environmentalist absolutely can and do bog down the process so much that it becomes extremely expensive. Time is money, and delays cost massive boatloads of both.

    20. Re:Blame the green lobby by mnemotronic · · Score: 1
      As noted, you've mis-interpreted the DOL table. The "Miners" column is the total number of workers; not the number of fatalities.

      So, yeah, lets compare 10,000 deaths from nuclear power to

      10,000,000

      10,000,000

      10,000,000

      104,866 deaths just from coal mining alone. I just can't believe how irrational people are about this topic.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    21. Re:Blame the green lobby by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      ignore that .... accidentally hit submit prematurely.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  8. Easy way to fix by Ogive17 · · Score: 0

    Just lower the regulations. They clearly have been over burdensome to business and a ploy of the socialist Democrats that want to ruin this great country.

    Make coal great again!

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  9. That's why I only use organic coal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Organic coal is made from all-natural ingredients without chemical toxins like arsenic, lithium, and chromium. Energy made from organic coal has a positive aura and with some added essential oils, can brighten your day.

  10. A better study by bobstreo · · Score: 2

    would also have checked all the coal plants that have been shutdown. If you add all them in, you could get closer to 100% contaminated.

    1. Re:A better study by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Maybe the investigators didn't want to perish in the study.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:A better study by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Most coal plants that were shut down were converted to natural gas.

    3. Re:A better study by bobstreo · · Score: 1

      Most coal plants that were shut down were converted to natural gas.

      And the piles of coal ash from as long ago as 1882 just magically disappeared when they were converted?

  11. We should be happy by fustakrakich · · Score: 0, Troll

    Lots of contamination (like a messy desk) means business is good, and what's good for business *Makes America Great Again*! All you little snowflakes can wear a gas mask and drink bottled water if you don't like it. The rest of us breathe deep all that carbon to make our lungs big and strong, and drink lots of water to condition our stomachs. See, pollution is like a vaccination, builds resistance, right?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:We should be happy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I shall ignore the "Troll" moderators for their lack of humor. They are idiots, and suffer greatly, even if they don't know it. Such is the life of the fool...

  12. SHOCKED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shocked I say!!!

  13. Easy way to fix pollution apologists - kill em. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the solution is to give the Republicans coal slurry to drink, and clean drinking water goes to people who value that. Problem solved. Everyone gets what they wanted.

    Republican cowards want environmental segregation, let's give it to them - in a tall glass.

  14. Chrome by darkain · · Score: 0

    I think Google has contaminated more of the planet than just coal power plants with Chromium...

    1. Re:Chrome by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      OK, it's modded to just 1, but I think it's funny.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    2. Re:Chrome by darkain · · Score: 1

      Which is really sad, because I start with a +2 score. So SOMEONE didn't like it. OH WELL!

    3. Re:Chrome by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      It's am inside joke and we're the only ones who got it.

      "News for nerds, stuff that matters."

      We're the cool kids.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  15. Find, and murder, the propagandist Assthong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's running distraction for coal intentionally. This is the GOP playbook under Trump - everything that happens is everyone else's fault but the Republicans doing it deliberately in front of your eyes.

    No quarter. Kill the propagandist faggot Assthong.

    1. Re:Find, and murder, the propagandist Assthong by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Huh? What are you even talking about? Hillary is still on her lame excuse tour, and every article on the Democrats constant string of screw-ups is a new "Republicans Pounce". I'm sure you will be one of the first propagandist to go when the revolution happens.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    2. Re:Find, and murder, the propagandist Assthong by aybiss · · Score: 1

      Excellent. Keep talking about Hillary. Keep coming back to that while Bernie wins the next election. Keep talking about her emails even after the win.

      --
      It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
  16. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These places literally glow in the dark and will kill life within minutes.

    What a load of shit.

    Plenty of people have investigated the "ghost town" of Chernobyl since 1986. There are people alive today who returned to areas near Chernobyl shortly after the accident, so it's hardly as deadly as you claim.

  17. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's actually worse than any nuclear accident.

  18. easily resolved with "science" by wardk · · Score: 1

    just need a crack crew of trump golf club members to publish a 'scientific' study showing that coal ash is healthy.

    problem solved.

  19. Karma Whoring Shill Alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck off, Coal Shill. Your UID is Ash - Ton. How fucking stupid do you think we are?

  20. "Tainted"? One man's trash.... by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    ....Lithium shortage expected...
    (https://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/17068/Lithium-Shortage-Expected-Due-to-Lack-of-Mines.aspx) ...Chromium prices jump on severe supply shortage....
    https://www.metalbulletin.com/...

    Sounds like that's not an ash pile, it's a gold mine.

    --
    -Styopa
  21. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

    These places literally glow in the dark and will kill life within minutes.

    More radioactive material is emitted by coal plants than by nuclear plants worldwide. Does spreading out the health consequences over the nation, rather than having a really bad problem in one area, make it better? Oh, coal also has really bad problems in specific areas: the various "mouth of Hell" sites where a mine caught fire, and the site will keep burning for decades, perhaps centuries.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  22. Re: Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Che by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A foreign agent is introduced to our water supply to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. I realized this after shooting blanks... How do you know it was republicans? That's the way your hard core commie works.

  23. Nuclear power is a socialist endeavor at this time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The problem with nuclear is that if they do it on a market budget, they risk more dangerous pollution than 100 years of coal ash, and it would last ~10,000 years. And they do it on a market budget, because otherwise it's "socialism" right?

  24. Re:"Tainted"? One man's trash.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason for those supply shortages are probably the same reason ash piles won't help much--dealing with all the toxic leftovers from the extraction process. To that end, coal ash is probably about the same as electronics as a gold mine: technically true because of the relatively density, but most anyone who does it does it in a third world country to avoid having to actually pay for any of the required environmentally mandated containment regulations. I'm actually sort of surprised that these places haven't sent all their coal ash to China. I mean, they too have tons of coal plants, and they really don't seem to give a shit about poisoning their own people with a government that generally prevents any dissent.

  25. Re:So environmentalism caused the coal ash disaste by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 2

    If you had left out the insults I might have modded you up.

    Next time keep it short, simple and non-toxic:

    "The green lobby is so fanatically anti-nuclear" - That doesn't have anything to do with coal ash over the last 50 years, which the "green lobby" has fought the entire time.

    At least he said "lobby" and didn't accuse all environmentalists. I'm as much of a tree-hugging dirt-worshiper as the next hippy which is why I've always thought we should have more nuclear power. There are too many extremists among us and in many ways they are just as idiotic as the people "rolling coal" in their over-sized pickup trucks.

    Some "environmental activists" are just terrorists and those who aren't need to start thinking beyond bumper-sticker slogans and panda bear pictures, especially if they want to be taken seriously.

    "NO NUKES" isn't exactly a very persuasive argument. I don't think trying to discredit the source is very persuasive either. Even if Earth Justice is anti-nuclear does that mean there isn't contamination from coal ash sites all over the place?

  26. Easily mitigated ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... by altering the "safe," levels of contamination. [/s]

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  27. Re:Trump will fix it, by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    No need for Trump to get involved.

    No one cares about the problem.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  28. Gutting Retirement Funds is The Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's the plan. If you gut the pension funds, then the pensioners are forced to vote Democrat to get SS increased to cover the theft from the leftists.

  29. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    85% of the cost of nuclear construction is due to malicious "environmental" lawsuits and ensuing delays. Just the ongoing regulatory paperwork cost ... just the paperwork ... is on the order of $30M/year per plant in costs and fees to the NRC. That's paperwork, not engineering or design or fabrication or maintenance.

    Think about this: Only nuclear has the externalities built in. Every kwh of power produced by a nuclear plant has money going into the shutdown and cleanup of the plant. Coal? Nope. Gas? Nope. Wind? Nope. Nuclear is "unaffordable" because it's been regulated and sued to death, not because it's "unaffordable". Stop lying.

    1. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      85% of the cost of nuclear construction is due to malicious "environmental" lawsuits and ensuing delays.

      Not quite. About half of the cost of construction is just paperwork. It is a consequence of the requirements when something is deemed "safety related." There is a minimum pedigree required to meet those standards, and it's not available in bulk. You end up with custom runs of material (basically the same as everything else), but you have the paper and inspections and the testing to show it is exactly what it is said to be. Then you still have a safety margin of at least three times. So now you have three times the material you need which is at least an order of magnitude more expensive than the standard stuff. That's where the costs are.

  30. Redefining pollution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In many cases, the levels of toxic contaminants that had leaked into groundwater were far higher than the thresholds set by the Environmental Protection Agency, the groups said.

    The EPA thresholds are clearly too strict. Never fear, Trump will get that changed, and then the pollution will be gone, and America will be great once again.

  31. Re: Nuclear power is a socialist endeavor at this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some forms of contamination is mining like heavy metal pollution has no half life its just permanent. People think of radioactivity as the worst pollutant while regularily polluting with even more permanently toxic materials

  32. Re: Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Che by aliquis · · Score: 1

    Both disasters together are better than one week of coal burning contamination?

  33. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by sjames · · Score: 1

    Actually, they do NOT glow in the dark. While not recommended, there are people living in the Chernobyl exclusion zone eating food they grow and hunt in the area..

  34. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And have broken children.

  35. Re:Nuclear power is a socialist endeavor at this t by sjames · · Score: 1

    About that 10,000 years thing, it's FUD.

    If we actually reprocess the "waste", we get mostly fuel ready to use and a small amount of actual waste that needs to be contained for 200-500 years depending on how cautious you want to be.

    The part that lasts 10,000 years is the same stuff found in naturally occurring rocks, but we can get rid of it by "burning" it in a reactor.

  36. Re: Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Che by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such is life in the Zone. As they say, you gotta fight with what you've got.

  37. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Helen Caldicott? Is that you?

    I'm thinking a village in Australia is missing their idiot.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  38. Drill, baby, drill! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi, USians! You are through rough times, currently. Nevertheless, I do appreciate you, a diverse, creative bunch (no shit!). The home to Martin Gardner, Don Knuth. The home to many who were evicted from their original homes by racist and identitary scum -- to get a wonderful second chance (look up Andrew James Viterbi to see what I mean). The home to Noam Chomsky. And many others. I love you.

    But... please get your act together and tar & feather the Koch brothers, will you?

    1. Re:Drill, baby, drill! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right after you tar and feather George Soros, kiss kiss, love you too!

  39. Weapons obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where do I pick up my prize?

  40. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pure bullshit.
    Fukushima radiation is now barely over the average US background radiation in most places.
    The dammage is very local and will be gone within 10-15 more years.
    This shit however will persist for centuries.

  41. Re:Nuclear power is a socialist endeavor at this t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is FUD on many levels.

    Radioactive waste doesn't stick around for 10000 years and then *poof* is gone.
    It decays in a 1/t manner.

    It is physically impossible for something to be both highly radioactive and stick around for a long time.
    For something to be dangerous a long time you need it to be less radioactive but have a lot of it.

  42. It's not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People don't pollute, it's all corporations and governments.
    Anyway I blame China
    --
    WindBourne

  43. "south of San Antonio" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's okay, San Antonio gets their drinking water from an artesian aquifer to the north! (which is also uphill)

  44. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    These places literally glow in the dark

    These places literally do no such thing.

  45. Re:Not nearly as comtaminated as Fukishima or Cher by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually the wildlife around Chernobyl is doing better than before the disaster. While radiation is bad for the wildlife, people inhabiting the area is far more deadly to them.

  46. want to remove this? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Time to build Nuclear power plants that have temps of 800C or so. That can be used to efficiently melt and separate the elements in the ash. IOW, using nuclear power, we can mine the ash and clean it up. Any waste elements such as mercury, lead, etc should be put in designated mines that can handle 1 type of element. IOW, 1 mine just for mercury. Another for lead. Another for tungsten. etc. etc. etc. Like Helium, these can then be sold at global market prices, or sold locally at 10% below global.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  47. Re:"Tainted"? One man's trash.... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    correct. If we will get nuclear power plants with 800C or above, we can actually separate those elements out FISCALLY and environmentally sounds. Ideally, we would then use old mines for storage of separated elements.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  48. That ain't English Ivan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That ain't English Ivan