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How 'SimCity' Inspired a Generation of City Planners (latimes.com)

Jessica Roy, writing for LA Times: Thirty years ago, Maxis released "SimCity" for Mac and Amiga. It was succeeded by "SimCity 2000" in 1993, "SimCity 3000" in 1999, "SimCity 4" in 2003, a version for the Nintendo DS in 2007, "SimCity: BuildIt" in 2013 and an app launched in 2014. Along the way, the games have introduced millions of players to the joys and frustrations of zoning, street grids and infrastructure funding -- and influenced a generation of people who plan cities for a living.

For many urban and transit planners, architects, government officials and activists, "SimCity" was their first taste of running a city. It was the first time they realized that neighborhoods, towns and cities were things that were planned, and that it was someone's job to decide where streets, schools, bus stops and stores were supposed to go.

128 comments

  1. Cities Skylines is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Grew up on Sim City. Started on C64.

    Thank you Maxis, and screw you EA.

    1. Re:Cities Skylines is better by grasshoppa · · Score: 4, Informative

      No mod points, but I absolutely agree. Skylines is the spiritual successor to SimCities of old, and it's amazing.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    2. Re: Cities Skylines is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is correct. The AI is a little wonky but simulating 50,000 citizens is no easy task

    3. Re:Cities Skylines is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a little bit torn on Cities Skylines. It is the modern Sim City, but it kind of devolves into Sim Traffic. (And ambulance drivers really want to drive across the entire city.)

  2. Central Planning doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No wonder cities suck ass.

    Any sufficiently complex system is too unwieldy for a god-like would-be Intelligent Designer.

    The only workable solutions (let alone the best solutions) must emerge through evolution by variation and selection, the most robust and humane form of which is voluntary interaction between individuals (i.e., a free market).

    1. Re: Central Planning doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would like to give mod points to my AI. My AI has an autotype feature on forms that can predict what I will type in every field without any context whatsoever. Kind of a miracle!

    2. Re: Central Planning doesn't work by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

      Lenin and Stalin disagree. It's not only possible, but the best system.

    3. Re:Central Planning doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in the US, we have cities that evolved with no planning other than what money developers were spending. The result? Miles of suburbs, no real feasible way to commute in most places other than by car, few public parks, few amenities.

      In fact, what the US used to have all over the place, rest stops, have all but vanished due to budget cuts and crime.

      Master planning would be nice. Had this been done, US cities wouldn't be crime-infested ratholes that they are now.

    4. Re:Central Planning doesn't work by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. It's the "master planners" who decided to create zoning prohibiting mixed use building which led to the change into carefully segregated industrial, commercial and residential areas and the inevitable need to drive in and out of the first two from the third. As a bonus, they also decided they knew better than builders how many parking spots were needed, so we also have a vast landscape of unused asphalt with white markings on it.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
  3. How the hell did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "For many urban and transit planners, it was the first time they realized that neighborhoods, towns and cities were things that were planned."

    You must be one dumb ass urban planner to not know towns, cities, and neighborhoods needed to be "planned."

    1. Re:How the hell did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone you know was once too dumb to know how to feed themselves.

      That includes your "dumb ass" self.

    2. Re:How the hell did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Answer me this, wise guy - if it's not urban planners unleashing UFO's on the populace, then who is huh?

    3. Re:How the hell did by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      > You must be one dumb ass urban planner to not know towns, cities, and neighborhoods needed to be "planned."

      True. And the cities they didn't know how to plan speak for themselves.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    4. Re:How the hell did by careysub · · Score: 1

      "For many urban and transit planners, it was the first time they realized that neighborhoods, towns and cities were things that were planned."

      You must be one dumb ass urban planner to not know towns, cities, and neighborhoods needed to be "planned."

      When they were children oh dumb ass AC.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    5. Re:How the hell did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      “Everything around you that you call life was made up by people that were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can influence it, you can build your own things that other people can use. Once you learn that, you’ll never be the same again.”
        – Steve Jobs

  4. missing one thing by supernova87a · · Score: 0, Troll

    Unfortunately, the SimCity designers forgot to code the module for old rich people (and their counterpart, misguided pseudo-liberals) who accuse you of gentrification any time you try to make enough room for new people to move into their cozy neighborhoods.

    1. Re:missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They got the eminent domain thing right - >>BOOM

    2. Re:missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Old rich people don't worry about gentrification. They worry about being forced to pay for subsidized housing that only serves to import crime into their once safe and comfortable neighborhoods and schools.

    3. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And rich leftists don't care either - they not only need to live in ethnic (re: cheaper) areas of SF, gosh darn it, they deserve to.

      Gentrification is a concern of the poor, and for good reason: it fucks them out of their homes.

    4. Re: missing one thing by sinij · · Score: 2

      This is much more complex problem. Poverty and crime are linked. While it is taboo to directly discuss this and you have to coax it in terms of broken windows or stop and frisk, this doesn't change the fact that one very effective and inexpensive (tax-wise) solution to crime is to just drive out the poor.

    5. Re: missing one thing by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      this doesn't change the fact that one very effective and inexpensive (tax-wise) solution to crime is to just drive out the poor.

      That's not a solution as it doesn't solve crime, it merely transports it (and most likely you will have increased net crime at the new location as compared to the original location due to lack of contacts/support/job prospects/housing/etc for the displaced).

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    6. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Another solution would be to stop subsidizing poverty through welfare and housing vouchers. Subsidize what you want to grow, not what you want to go away. If the poor were working instead of living off of taxpayer money, they would have less time and incentive to commit crime.

    7. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ugh.
      This is actually how SimCity 1 calculates crime.
      (15-land value nibble) + density nibble - (4 * police nibble)

      Low land value plus high population density automatically equals crime.

    8. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they're poor because they cannot work?
      That through illness, injury, psychological issues, or childrearing, that the market will not pay the cost of employing these certain people?

      If you reward money to a successful business, because they are successful, what use is that? You just amplify the inequality.

    9. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not just kill everybody making less than $100,000/year? No more problems with those filthy poor people ruining the lives of wonderful rich folk.

    10. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of site, out of mind.

    11. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ahh, good old NIMBY ism

    12. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      this doesn't change the fact that one very effective and inexpensive (tax-wise) solution to crime is to just drive out the poor.

      That's not a solution as it doesn't solve crime, it merely transports it

      It does solve crime locally and if you are honest this is exactly approach used everywhere. "Location, location, location" is rarely about vistas or you would have a lot more rural living, but about other people living in the area. Solving crime globally is an orthogonal problem to making sure you are not a victim of crime.

    13. Re: missing one thing by lgw · · Score: 1

      Gentrification is a concern of the poor, and for good reason: it fucks them out of their homes.

      Correction: it fucks them out of the place their renting. The poor who own their house (more common than you may think) benefit from rising prices, and proportionally more so.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    14. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      or childrearing

      Compulsory sterilization is the solution here.

    15. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the old rich people own the construction companies that build subsidized housing. They love helping poor people. By helping poor people, I of coarse mean helping old rich liberals.

      The people who hate subsidized housing are poor and middle class people. Poor people because they have to live in crappy crime filled high rises. Middle class people because they are giving money to rich old people to build housing for poor people.

      Helping poor people is a trillion dollars business. All the billionaires spend most of their time doing it. That is how they got so rich

    16. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's such a small percentage it isn't even worth talking about.

      Let's displace 4000 people, but 100 of them will be home owners so they will benefit.

      And they don't really benefit, they got bought out of their homes and have to relocate which is a huge inconvenience. For what? A 25% increase in a house that you still have 25 years to pay off?

    17. Re:missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are confused, as most people are, about the tag "rich people".

      The rich are not simply people who have more money than you do and who live in nicer houses and drive nicer cars than you do. The rich are people who do not need to worry about subsidized housing of any sort because they live in enclaves surrounded solely by other rich. Together, these people control every single inch of property around their properties, generally for tens of acres surrounding their neighborhoods which, as a bonus, are usually built in areas surrounded by natural barriers limiting further development. Lakes, deep ravines, mountains and rivers: these are great places to find the truly rich. On top of all this the truly rich will control the local city planning board, mayor's office, city council or other political body designated to "plan" communities. This ensures no one ever suggests anything be built in their neighborhoods.

      The merely well-off are generally used as a buffer for the rich, sopping up the housing for the needy.

      As a thumbnail test to see if the people you consider rich truly are, simply see if there is any development crowding their homes. If the answer is yes then these are not rich people.

      Glad I could help.

    18. Re: missing one thing by lgw · · Score: 1

      That's such a small percentage it isn't even worth talking about.

      Let's displace 4000 people, but 100 of them will be home owners so they will benefit.

      Depends where you live. I've been through plenty of very poor neighborhoods that were all houses. Tiny houses built long ago, but still. That includes parts of the SF Bay Area.

      For what? A 25% increase in a house that you still have 25 years to pay off?

      More like 5x in some places. And you pay it off the moment you sell and pocket the difference. Still sucks to have to move, but if your $80k house becomes a $400k knockdown and you keep the $320k, that does soften the blow.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    19. Re: missing one thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solves my crime. You crime is your problem ... I chased out these bitches . Please, have a pack of nibbers, beaners, Somalia, wetttbakkks and wogs. Wait for the rapes & gunfire to start.

  5. NEWSFLASH is a little out of date. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cool game came out over 25 years ago. News at 11.

    1. Re:NEWSFLASH is a little out of date. by DickBreath · · Score: 2

      Will SimCity let you create a busy street suitable for playing a violent video game such as Frogger?

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:NEWSFLASH is a little out of date. by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      Streets of Sim City does...

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
  6. I learnt a lot from Sim City by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Funny

    I learnt a lot from Sim City, I know all cities on earth will inevitably get destroyed when the town planners get bored and call on all sorts of disasters to wipe the slate clean and start again.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:I learnt a lot from Sim City by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I learnt a lot from Sim City, I know all cities on earth will inevitably get destroyed when the town planners get bored and call on all sorts of disasters to wipe the slate clean and start again.

      When you combine this observation with the Simulation Hypothesis, the world starts to make a lot more sense.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

    2. Re:I learnt a lot from Sim City by The+Snazster · · Score: 1

      It's all fun and games until Godzilla shows up!

    3. Re: I learnt a lot from Sim City by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I learned that you could make an entire city with double width columns over the enire map. That you could have all rails, served by ONE tiny train. Power plants can be connected with just a telephone power line. Also, if you build just one patch of road, there will be a traffic jam on it.

    4. Re:I learnt a lot from Sim City by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      but it takes so much longer to instantiate the disaster when the only buttons you can press are "release more greenhouse gases", "let the miners frack the ground", and "clear the land"

  7. Skimming the headlines by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Funny

    How 'SimCity' Inspired a Generation of City Planners

    (Player adds infinite cash) Mmmmmm...gonna get me some kickback action!

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Skimming the headlines by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      You do realize that you couldn't handle even a tiny fraction of that much cash, right?

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  8. Uh huh... by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

    and influenced a generation of people who plan cities for a living.

    Then why don't they turn off disasters IRL?

  9. Godzilla by mattdunelm · · Score: 1

    Thats why modern cities are designed with long straight boulevards. Not to be architecturally pleasing, but to give the kaiju a clear run across the landscape without running into buildings.

    1. Re:Godzilla by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

      I thought it was for efficient transportation.

    2. Re:Godzilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thats why modern cities are designed with long straight boulevards. Not to be architecturally pleasing, but to give the kaiju a clear run across the landscape without running into buildings.

      Joseph Smith Jr used the grid system in Nauvoo in the 1830s. Brigham Young continued it in Utah Territory in the 1840s, but the stipulation he wanted the streets wide enough that an ox cart could do a U-turn. I think both these example predate SimCity. The grid system used by Smith and Young make navigation super easy: chose the city center, street numbers increase by 100 as you move away from the center and include the direction (200N 300W is 2 blocks north and 3 blocks west of the center point); 8 blocks to the mile. If this were combined with the proper layout of residential, commercial, industrial, and recreational use and you could avoid a lot of gridlock.

    3. Re:Godzilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to talk about the origin of broad, straight boulevards, you should look up Haussmann's renovation of Paris. He wanted to break up the dark, diseased, crowded neighborhoods of Paris with wide streets that would bring in light and air and, if necessary, troops. It's a bit later than the Mormon examples you cite, but Haussmann's boulevards are more than wide enough for Godzilla rather than an oxcart to make a U-turn.

    4. Re:Godzilla by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      Actually, it was to imitate Paris. And Paris did that so that the army had nice long firelanes for their cannon when they were suppressing riots.

    5. Re:Godzilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > He wanted to break up the dark, diseased, crowded neighborhoods of Paris with wide streets that would bring in light and air and, if necessary, troops.

      They did...only the troops were German!

  10. And if you enjoy the transport network part by jabberw0k · · Score: 1

    Give the open-source Simutrans a try. As "public player" you can redesign cities and networks of farms, resources and factories; then let the game engine take things from there, while you (and perhaps your friends in network mode) serve the cities and factories with carriages, trucks, ships, trains, or aeroplanes in the timeline.

  11. City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Where I live, city planners seem to be certifiably crazy. It is harsh winter 5 out of 12 month here, yet they keep eliminating lanes by adding bike lanes. This results in more traffic congestion and road sections that are unused for significant part of the year.

    1. Re:City Planners are crazy by laxguy · · Score: 1

      we must live in the same city. better yet are the new "no parking" barriers (because a sign isnt good enough, lets phyiscally take that space away) that stick into the road and force cars to go 1 at a time down a 2 lane road.

    2. Re:City Planners are crazy by mwfischer · · Score: 2

      there is no such thing as parking in sim city. therefore there is no such thing as parking in urban planning

    3. Re:City Planners are crazy by Whatsisname · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, city planners have just realized what you have failed to realize: we can't solve traffic unless we get rid of the cars. You can't build enough highway lanes to solve traffic congestion. Building wider streets and bigger highways just ends up spreading everything out more and more, and thus necessitating more and more car travel. It's a positive feedback system.

      Planners have realized that we need to go back to building cities for people, not for cars. Bike lanes are just one part of that. Slowing down traffic is another.

    4. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you live in Ottawa

    5. Re:City Planners are crazy by thegarbz · · Score: 0

      It is harsh winter 5 out of 12 month here, yet they keep eliminating lanes by adding bike lanes.

      I don't understand. Do they not sell studded or winter tires for bicycles in your country? Or do you not own jackets? Or do you just not put the maintenance in? I mean where I live the ploughs ensure the cycle paths are done before the roads. I don't quite understand your problem.

    6. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, city planners have just realized what you have failed to realize: we can't solve traffic unless we get rid of the cars.

      Citation?

      Planners have realized that we need to go back to building cities for people, not for cars. Bike lanes are just one part of that. Slowing down traffic is another.

      While all of these planning moves are clearly anti-car, it doesn't lead to "building cities for people". It just leads to more misery, short and long term. The least affected population by this is childless single hipsters working in tech, who can afford in both circumstances and income to live in a tiny condos downtown.

    7. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      I think they should add waterways and canals next to all roads, because I prefer to commute via gondolas to work.

      My problem is that I view bike commuting as impractical and unsafe in good weather, and outright idiotic in the winter. I don't have a death wish and don't appreciate you trying to dictate how I should live, you righteous SJW dipshit.

    8. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taking away someone's bike lane sounds like dictating how they should live.

    9. Re:City Planners are crazy by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      No, city planners have just realized what you have failed to realize: we can't solve traffic unless we get rid of the cars.

      Citation?

      First hit on Google - plenty of supporting information and real science out there if you are actually interested:

      https://usa.streetsblog.org/20...

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    10. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't choose to understand the problem. That's not the same as being incapable of understanding. Where you live has no problems with this. Apparently everything is in easy biking distance, and you're all equipped and able to ride in the snow. Where he lives, that is clearly not the case. Is your point just an attempt to signal your city or country's superiority to his?

    11. Re:City Planners are crazy by Kevin+Stevens · · Score: 1

      A better way to put this IMHO is that automobile transportation just isn't scalable enough.

      I came to this realization that this is really a scale problem a few months ago. I generally citibike (bike share) to work, and was feeling pretty smug about it for a period of time. I still use mass transit on occasion though, and one time I was on a packed train and some dude comes on with a bike. It took up the space of about 4, maybe 5 people. Biking, while far better than a car-which I also noticed that 5 bikes took up the space of 1 car, while taking up a space of approximately 5 cars, which clogged 3 lanes for almost the entirety of 2 rows, still just did not have anywhere near the density or scale of mass transit. Getting the entirety of the population on a bike isn't going to work either (at least not for megascale cities like NYC). A typical subway train can and does, fit about 1200 people on it during rush hour. Next time you are stuck in traffic (or just look on google images for pictures of traffic jams: https://daily.jstor.org/wp-con... ) try and count the number of cars you can see in front of you. For me it was about 200-250. At least when I was driving, it was safe to assume that most of these were only singly occupied, some had 2, a few had more in them, but the vast majority of these cars had only a driver. That means that this massively expensive piece of infrastructure, for as far as the eye could see, still did not have the capacity of a single NYC subway train. That blew my mind a bit.

      I am not saying that we need to ban cars, or bikes, but we certainly need to encouraging and *improving* mass transit.

    12. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 4, Informative
      From your own link:

      They found that for every 1 percent increase in highway capacity, traffic increases 0.29 to 1.1 percent in the long term (about five years out), and up to 0.68 percent in the short term (one or two years).

      The reported data clearly indicates that building more highway capacity is both short and long term effective solution to traffic.

    13. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      I traveled internationally and seen various degrees of success with motorized scooters driving on segregated lanes/roads. Biking is too slow and too physically intense for it to be an effective solution for anyone but young, healthy and very fit people, a minority of population.

    14. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, what's clearly indicated is that induced demand can more than use up the extra capacity in as little as 5 years.

    15. Re:City Planners are crazy by Sandarin · · Score: 0

      If only we could attach a small electrical engine to a bike and power it was some sort of battery..

    16. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      It does no such thing. It indicates that even biased sources could provide data that shows that highway capacity increases exceed traffic growth. Meaning the whole premise that "build more roads results in more traffic" (and never mind causation fallacy) is not true even when taken at face value using data provided to justify it.

      So building more roads solves traffic issues. Reducing lanes increases traffic. Who knew, right?

    17. Re:City Planners are crazy by Pauldow · · Score: 1

      Connecticut legislators don't seem to have ever used SimCity. They still think that if you quadruple the tax rate, it will bring in 4 times the money to the State

    18. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1.1% > 1%. So it does show exactly what I said it shows.

    19. Re: City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not, they are still free to ride their bikes. Just keep them off the roads with 2 ton vehicles for Christ sakes.

      Bikes and cars don't mix like two dicks, with no chicks, find yaself in some serious shit.

    20. Re:City Planners are crazy by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      I played way too much SimCity and I'm scared that this post will have me playing it again. In SimCity4 (which I played the most), at least, an all-car transportation system actually worked fairly for transportation. The only situation where roads didn't work well was if you had low-wealth tenements because they were just too dense. But if you avoided those (don't zone anything medium-density until it's already medium-wealth) and if you had some mix of residential and commercial it worked really well. The inconvenience of the traffic density for the commuters was offset by the extra business for the commercial zones. The downside was that the pollution was awful. But you could make creative use of toll booths to fund parks. Its only when I tried to keep pollution down that my cities went bankrupt!

    21. Re:City Planners are crazy by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      I posted my SimCity experience earlier. But yes you can certainly build enough highway capacity in the game. And in (most) real life situations the easiest thing to do is to just build more roads! However there are also some pretty-good counter-examples. Look at Los Angeles where 65% of surface area is dedicated to cars and its not enough! You can't put in more roads there although I'm sure there are people advocating for it. Similar for New York City although I'm sure there is some demand in both locales for underground highways.

    22. Re:City Planners are crazy by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      It's one of many studies. Do the searching and read up please. You are forcing an interpretation that matches your incorrect perception, not the actual facts.

      I understand it's counter-intuitive, but more roads and lanes leads to more traffic congestion, not less. The primary reason is because more road capacity encourages people to increase the number of trips they make and to do so in a car instead of other modes of transportation, thereby negating the very short term capacity surplus that was introduced.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    23. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      You omitted it was stated a range, as in "traffic increases 0.29 to 1.1 percent in the long term". Without attribution to other causes, you know, like population growth over long term period.

    24. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      You are asserting something that you want to be true without providing any facts to back it up. I don't have to accept this without proof, and I don't have to do research to prove anything to contrary.

      We can agree that original claim is BS, or you can provide some evidence that could survive even superficial critical reading.

    25. Re:City Planners are crazy by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      I gave you a link with proof, and a google search reveals many more similar studies (this is an area I someone actively maintain an interest in).

      You are the one who needs to prove their unsupported claim at this point.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    26. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used contingent language like "can" and "as little as", while you failed to acknowledge even the possibility that capacity increases can worsen congestion. Point being, we can both twist the data, but I can do it without having to lie.

      The scientific fact is that induced demand is a real thing, that at best reduces the effectiveness of capacity increases, and at worst can mean that it can create more congestion problems than it solves.

    27. Re: City Planners are crazy by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

      You from Pittsburgh?

    28. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Building wider streets and bigger highways just ends up spreading everything out more and more, and thus necessitating more and more car travel. It's a positive feedback system.

      Prove it. I say this is nonsense, whatever math you dreamed up to make this point is bogus.

    29. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BEEP BEEP. Stay out of my way. BEEP BEEP. Oh damnation, solly ....

    30. Re:City Planners are crazy by Whatsisname · · Score: 1

      It's really not terribly complicated to figure out. Roads and highways have a non-zero width. Space occupied by the highways is space that isn't being used for productive uses. Some parts of the interstates through major cities carve canyons through the area that are between 350 and 500 feet wide. Parking lots needed to store all the cars on those highways create endless expanses of paved areas. With more and more lanes and wider roads, it means destinations are farther apart because there is more paved space in between them. Compare historic, even rural downtowns, to more auto-centric design that is inhospitable to anyone not in a car: https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

      Additionally suburban cul-de-sac style, single use residential planning forces commercial and other areas far away from where people live, also requireing more car travel. Said developments usually have winding one-way and non-thru streets which dump all traffic onto already overused arterial feeders.

      Just try using your brain for once.

    31. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are not getting rid of cars ever.

    32. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we can't solve traffic unless we get rid of the cars.

      Autonomous cars that communicate with each other + no intersections (tunnels and bridges, as applicable) + specially designed parking lots + accident/debris-clearing drones = traffic basically solved.

      Of course, this would cost tooons of money, and road-faring cars would have to be hyper regulated (e.g., autonomous only, mandatory software updates, regular vehicle inspections, etc.)

    33. Re:City Planners are crazy by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It just leads to more misery, short and long term.

      Driving a car in a city is about the single most miserable experience imaginable. Free youself from your car and bask in a world free from undiagnosed clinical depression.

      live in a tiny condos downtown.

      Huh? What does a tiny condo downtown have to do with anything? We living in a sensibly designed cities where this isn't a requirement to not own a car would love to know.

    34. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like a train network in fact ^^

    35. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      Link you provided did not contain proof AND was shown to be internally inconsistent. Their own unsubstantiated data didn't show what they were claiming it was showing.

    36. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      No, you made absolutists statements like "clearly indicated" when no such thing was clearly indicated. "0.29 to 1.1" is not > 1.0 for any kind of reasonable to assume distribution.

    37. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "clearly indicate" are your words, which I merely echoed back at you, and your statement was the absolutist one, not mine. You're working hard to accuse me of your sins.

    38. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      I didn't put words in your post when you stated:

      Actually, what's clearly indicated is that induced demand can more than use up the extra capacity in as little as 5 years.

      So turns out it isn't at all clear that "demand can more than use up the extra capacity".

    39. Re:City Planners are crazy by sinij · · Score: 1

      I also assume at this point that pedantism here is fully consensual.

    40. Re:City Planners are crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but no. You're actually being obtuse, which I'm afraid is not the same thing as pedantry.

  12. That's a straw man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The OP didn't say they aren't functioning; the OP said they suck ass.

  13. We need SimResources too by wcrowe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wish there were also SimFood, SimEnergy, SimWater etc. Maybe it could all be covered under SimResources. Perhaps it would give millennial urbanites, who think that food, water and energy just magically show up at their local Starbucks, Trader Joes and so on, a clue as to where that stuff comes from and that the values and livelihoods of the people in other parts of the country who provide their food and energy actually matter.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:We need SimResources too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I miss SimAnt. Ants actually matter, most of this people stuff is silly.

    2. Re:We need SimResources too by totallyarb · · Score: 1

      SimEnergy and SimWater, sure, but SimFood? You'd end up with a generation of people who think it's a good idea for a city's food supply to be centrally planned. Enjoy your breadlines. ;)

      --
      -- Note to Mods: There is a good reason there's no "-1 Disagree" option. --
    3. Re:We need SimResources too by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      SimFood was actually called Sim Farm, it was released in 1993. It taught me that the best profit results were to be had by filling up square miles with storage silos, then filling them with strawberries. Once the market for strawberries spiked you sold the entire stockpile all in one go and then had the funds to do absolutely whatever you wanted to the rest of the map.

    4. Re:We need SimResources too by matthewd · · Score: 1

      In the real world of course you can't stockpile strawberries in silos.

    5. Re:We need SimResources too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of "values" are you talking about?

  14. And before Sim City, there was CLUG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Community Land Use Game. We played it in my high school econ class.

    http://www.cluginfo.org/

  15. SimCity taught me an important lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I was young and playing SimCity 3000, I loved building up cities and solving all of the problems. So after a while I had built up a "Utopia" city, virtually no crime, close to zero pollution, parks everywhere, rails to take you anywhere, etc... And to top it all off I had taxes set at 1% across the board, I even had a surplus of cash being generated at 1%. So I checked the city for complaints (Shouldn't really be any), and I found that people were telling me taxes were too high. Since I couldn't go any lower but 0%, I decided to set it at that for a year to see what would happen. After one year in game passed I checked it again and guess what, the people still said that taxes were too high! They were paying no taxes and living in a damn perfect city and still wanted more.

    That game taught me that no matter how good you do something or how perfect it is, people will still complain.

    It was a great lesson to learn.

    1. Re:SimCity taught me an important lesson by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      How did you do this and not go bankrupt. In Simcity 3k, I think you had to pay operating expenses on all of that stuff.

    2. Re:SimCity taught me an important lesson by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      In the 2013 Sim City game the zero tax trick actually works. You can create a libertarian paradise with no electricity, no water, no roads, no refuse collection, no services at all and 0% tax. People will be 100% satisfied.

      It really wasn't a very good game.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  16. City Planner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing is higher than an architect!

  17. Learning Consequences and Balance. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    One of the biggest learning experience from Sim City is the idea of balance, and consequences. This is a lesson that a lot of people really don't get anymore, they are so stuck on a theory that they want to Min/Max their lives to fit their social/political ideas.
    Sim City really prevented the ability to Min/Max game play and forced a balanced approach.
    Those Industrial zone which pollute and lower the nearby Residential value, however they are needed to support the Commercial districts, and if they are too far away from the Residential areas, then they will not be utilized thus lowering commercial value.
    Your choices have a trade off, but not making a choice is often worse, then when you have your consequence in action, you will need to then see if there is a way to mediate it, and then have its own sets of trade offs.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Learning Consequences and Balance. by xleeko · · Score: 1

      Sim City really prevented the ability to Min/Max game play and forced a balanced approach.

      This fellow disagrees with you, and min/maxed his way to a 9+million person city.

      https://youtu.be/NTJQTc-TqpU

    2. Re:Learning Consequences and Balance. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i came here for magnasanti and was not disappointed

  18. City planners - ha! by juniorkindergarten · · Score: 1

    In my city (London Ontario), the developers decide everything and the planners rubber stamp what they want. With a population of 400k we have no ring road or high speed traffic route through any part of the city. Its painful to drive across the city. Guaranteed 30-45 minutes in rush hour.

    --
    "Every security scheme that is based on secrets eventually fails." - Steve Jobs
  19. Food is already Centrally Planned by ghoul · · Score: 2

    No Developed nation would be able to grow its own food without centrally planned subsidies. Farming is simply not that high value , the land and people can be used for something more economically viable . Food would all be imported from the third world if we didn't have central ministries of agriculture centrally planning we nned to have this much corn production capability in case of war hence we need this much subsidy.

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
    1. Re: Food is already Centrally Planned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's communism! Central planning is evil, only free markets are endorsed by God.

    2. Re:Food is already Centrally Planned by totallyarb · · Score: 2

      Food would all be imported from the third world if we didn't have central ministries of agriculture centrally planning

      And the problem with this would be...? Higher employment rates leading to higher wages in the third world, lifting people out of poverty there while delivering cheaper food here? And a world less likely to go to war since the potential disruption to the food supply makes the prospect more dangerous to governments? How terrible.

      Anyway, the subsidies you're talking about refer to NATIONAL food supply planning, not city-level.

      --
      -- Note to Mods: There is a good reason there's no "-1 Disagree" option. --
  20. UNPLANNED vs PLANNED by gDLL · · Score: 2

    In my city everybody who wants to spend a night out and all the tourists visit the old tiny cramped UNPLANNED historical centre. Not the wide rectangular centrally planned and fugly PLANNED boulevards which are pretty much deserted in the evening.

  21. Nobody mentions Tropico? by WolfgangVL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real successor to Sim-City.

    Secret police, wiretaps, and rigged elections! Art imitates life, eh Presidente?

    --
    You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
    1. Re:Nobody mentions Tropico? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'll be seeing you down at the Jolly Roger! Aye!

    2. Re:Nobody mentions Tropico? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tropico was great, I agree. The gameplay was good, and the display scaling of the hud UI was really slick. I remember an article or interview about it from the past but cannot find it now.

  22. THAT explains... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A generation of City Planners inspired by SimCity. That explains all the strange "solutions" that break towns and cities wherever I go. These people need to get proper training, not SimCity.

  23. If this is true... by LordHighExecutioner · · Score: 1

    ...I wonder who got his inspiration from PacMan.

  24. Let's anniversary play the DOS version by ReneR · · Score: 1

    On a real i486 no less: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  25. Wasn't this a joke? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember an argument against video games causing violence being a joke
    "If violent video games are causing kids to be violent then where are all the city planners who played SimCity?"

    So this means that violent video games ARE making kids violent

  26. Godzilla mode rocked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Build lots of tiny parks in cities to make people believe that you are doing something about environmental issues, even though it does next to nothing.

    That's what I learned.

    And Godzilla mode rocked!

  27. Bunch of a$$holes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate the zoning commission. They don't let people in my neighbourhood do anything with their properties.

  28. It truly is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tropic is a downright hilarious game. However it is more like a freeform simcity 1 rather than a sim city 2k or later game. You only have limited control over infrastructure. No control over citizens, roads start as dirt or gravel and only in the later games can they be concrete (unless they upgrade along the way, tropic 2 seemed to stay dirt roads your citizens walked along forever.)

    Between the US/Russia/Military coups, the rebellion by other political classes you weren't keeping happy, the tropical storms, etc, it was a huge pain in the ass to manage and play. SimCity 2k is downright easy in comparison.

  29. Square cities with straight roads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SimCity taught me that every single thing in a city is square and that roads are always straight.

  30. SimCity only tied with Ultima 5 as far as favorite by goodgame · · Score: 1

    Used to start it on my Herc monocheome while I ran windows 3.1 on my vga. I'd just set it up and let it go.