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Chelsea Manning Jailed For Refusing To Testify On WikiLeaks (apnews.com)
The Associated Press is reporting that Chelsea Manning, the transgender former Army private who was convicted of passing sensitive government documents to WikiLeaks, "has been sentenced to jail for refusing to testify to a grand jury investigating Wikileaks." From the report: U.S. District Judge Claude Hilton ordered Manning to jail for contempt of court on Friday after a brief hearing in which Manning confirmed she has no intention of testifying. She told the judge she "will accept whatever you bring upon me." Manning has said she objects to the secrecy of the grand jury process, and that she already revealed everything she knows at her court martial. The judge said she will remain jailed until she testifies or until the grand jury concludes its work. Manning's lawyers had asked that she be sent to home confinement instead of the jail, because of medical complications she faces. The judge said U.S. marshals can handle her medical care. Prosecutor Tracy McCormick said the jail and the marshals have assured the government that her medical needs can be met.
I think it's very telling that both under a strident Democratic administration, and now a Republican one, that the investigation and hatred for Wikileaks is exactly the same. This is why I often maintain there is really very little difference between the two parties...
I do feel sorry for Manning though, sending her to jail and not even letting her be confined to home is bullshit. As Wikileaks has said on Twitter, this is simply an effort to coerce Manning to testify. I think it's sad they can get away with this.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Help me out here. IANAL, so I don't really know for sure. But she was pardoned. That means she can't take the fifth in any deposition related to her Wikileaks actions, but she is immune. I don't think it would matter if new information came out. So why is she refusing to talk to the Grand Jury?
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
She is a Traitor to the country. This isn't because of any party loyalty. These were classified documents which she was working on as a member of the military. She chose to be in the military, and work in an area that had such access. This is different then Snowden who was a civilian consultant and wasn't given a way to report illegal actives. Or Assange who isn't an American Citizen.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
They diverge in some regards but it pretty much any way that matters, both sides look out for power in DC.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Technically any German that sent classified documents to the Allies would be a Traitor. What's more important, loyalty or morals?
I don't really care for Manning but history will look fondly on this.
piece of trash why? by providing evidence of the crimes against humanity and the ACTUAL COST OF WAR to all involved? ...if you're struggling with that, i think you're suffering from cognitive dissonance from being so thoroughly brainwashed.
Genocide? Of whom? And the video Manning leaked was deliberately misrepresented by Assange to boost his own ego, as others in WikiLeaks have stated.
What's particularly bad about this is Manning was leaking information with the specific intent to cause harm to the Army, (possibly leading to the deaths of US soldiers) without being aware of its contents at all. Manning did this purely out of spite; it had nothing to do with whistleblowing. The reason he did this goes back to his early days in the Army. Read on:
https://huwieler.net/2017/01/1...
Nothing would make Manning more happy than to see his comrades die simply because he was deliberately an asshole in basic. As an Army veteran myself, I have zero sympathy for that stupid fuck.
" As an Army veteran myself, I have zero sympathy for that stupid fuck." - Ok, so how do you feel about a coward who lied 5 times to stay out of his duty to country, and looks down on those who enlisted to serve? (Drumpf the traitor)
She is a Traitor to the country. This isn't because of any party loyalty. These were classified documents which she was working on as a member of the military. She chose to be in the military, and work in an area that had such access. This is different then Snowden who was a civilian consultant and wasn't given a way to report illegal actives. Or Assange who isn't an American Citizen.
Yes, and the Holocaust was both legal and mostly secret too. Your rhetoric discards all morality in favor of laws that corrupt people wrote to give their blood-soaked oil war cover. Every organized atrocity happens because someone carried out orders. You're hounding for people to just do as their told, no matter how blatantly evil it is.
The Iraq war murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians, displaced over a million, and created gulags where torture and rape were carried out in malice by American soldiers against those rounded up indiscriminately in an occupied country. The American people were broadly deceived about the cause of the Iraq War, as they have been for many previous wars waged on behalf of rich people's interest abroad, and our soldiers in particular were lied to about what they put their lives on the line for.
That is morally treasonous, and anyone who disobeyed an order from an official to restore basic human rights is a hero.
I will not hear of traitor from you sadistic authoritarian psychopaths. You're a traitor to humanity regardless of borders. Full stop.
She was pardoned by Obama. This is Trump/Republicans trying to go barround it. Most likely denied questioning to protect herself.
Her sentence was commuted. Obama specifically said he wasn't pardening her, he felt that her sentence was out of proportion to what others had received. He didn't even commute the whole sentence.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
So you are so incredibly insecure in your identity that you fear nothing more than a person that has made the decision to switch genders? You have a serious problem.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
he US is in the same category ad China, Russia or Nazi Germany.
You're delusional. I suggest you talk to people who lived under the nazi flag. Talk to those who first-hand fought the fights, flew the raids, occupied Germany at the end. I suggest you educate yourself on what WWII Germany was doing, how they did it, and the sheer scale of what was done. Every country has blood on its hand, but WWII Germany was something else. Russia, too. Stalin offed twice as many Russians -- his own people -- than what Hitler did to the Jews and others Not Like Him.
We're not running a machine of death where we feed body upon body by the thousands into the furnaces. No, we just knock over dictators to put another dictator in, one friendly to our interests.
All we have here is a few minor inconveniences. For fuck's sake we can still buy guns with relative ease. And drugs. And cars, bikes, etc etc. We're a fucking paradise, my commie-pinko friend, even when compared to places in the Carribean.
I will fight people like you in the voting booths, now and until I die. You cannot be allowed to win. You have your right to say it, but we have the right to vote your people into oblivion.
And who the fuck modded you +1 anyway? Your post smacks of arrogant ignorance!
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
You can be compelled by the court to testify in a case unrelated to you (other than you being a witness). Refusal to do so is contempt of court, and can result in jail time (not prison). Your desire to protect someone does not override the court's responsibility to get at the truth.
This seems like an odd reason to refuse to comply with the court. Grand jury hearings (they determine if there's sufficient evidence for a case to go to a real trial) act as a shield against government harassing innocents by constantly sending them to trial on frivolous charges. They are frequently held in secret so as not to prejudice potential future jurors, and not to prejudice the public in case there's a determination that there's insufficient evidence (people have this bad habit of assuming that being accused = guilty).
The only other notable case I can think of where someone refused to testify was a reporter who was ordered by a court to give up the name of his anonymous source, and was jailed (for years) under contempt of court. But in that case, the principle of freedom of the press was at stake - people wishing to inform the press anonymously would no longer do so if their anonymity could be stripped by a simple court order.
Question: What would history label a German who sent information to the allies about the Nazi extermination camps?
(We know the German high command would probably label them a traitor and jail them, I'm asking about "history")
No sig today...
... certain matters at her trial.
There are other matters that the feds thought were unnecessary to pursue because they already had enough to put her away.
Even the Obama decision did not upset prosecutors. However, the US is gearing up for an Assange trial once Ecuador releases Assange to London.
For that reason, additional actions by Manning, declared moot at the time, are now important to the Assange trial.
Those same facts would also incriminate Manning and expose her to possible further litigation. I predict an immunity deal for her.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Not a she. Just saying.
Any time you see someone say "just saying" it's because they have nothing useful to say. Any time you find yourself say "just saying", just STFU.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
not even in the legal sense. Traitor has a very, very specific legal meaning. It means treason, and good luck proving that. It's got the highest bar for anything in our legal system (and for damn good reason).
In the metaphorical sense she's anything but a traitor. She did what she felt was right to expose horrible things being done in my name and yours. Things done to protect the interests of the ultra-wealthy and powerful at the expense of everyday working Americans.
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From a legal standpoint Hitler was duly elected and became the dictator of Germany via legal means. He then instituted an immoral but totally legal program of attempted genocide of a whole people.
Moral and legal are often not only the same thing but contrary.
However, as everyone from Emerson to King understood, being morally right does not provide legal protect from the consequences of your actions. So when you act on your morality be ready to accept the consequences. The concept that you should not have to accept the consequences of your actions just because you are doing the right thing is a particularly modern notion and unrealistic in the extreme.
Here's a quote from Adrian Lamo on exposing Manning:
âoeHad I done nothing, I would always have been left wondering whether the hundreds of thousands of documents that had been leaked to unknown third parties would end up costing lives, either directly or indirectly.â
In case you're not familiar, Lamo was the person who Manning was passing these documents to in order to have them made available via WikiLeaks.
I don't care if you want to say bad things about the military or the US government; hell, I've done it plenty of times. But deliberately trying to get your battle buddies killed? What a miserable psychopathic piece of shit.
Not a She. His XY Chromosomes says he's a male. That is how science classifies him.
Better? Or are you "just saying" that "just saying" something doesn't make it so. He can call himself a girl all s/he wants I don't give a shit about whatever gender they think they are, but saying something ("just sayin") doesn't make it so, even according to your own logic. S/He could call themselves the Queen of England for all I care, it doesn't make it so.
You're not entitled to your own facts. Objective Reality Hurts
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Not a She. His XY Chromosomes says he's a male. That is how science classifies him.
Actually not quite. Classification is based on external appearance at birth, which is determined by the effect of androgens during pregnancy.
Even if a baby is known to be XY, phenotype trumps genotype.
Though somehow nowadays, we have people denying any biological basis to gender differences, and claiming things like occupation preference and aggression are purely cultural. So the logical conclusion is that you can be whatever sex you want. :-)
This makes perfect sense if you believe sex is a social construct
S/He could call themselves the Queen of England
NOT the same. Gender self-identification, unlike say racial or political identity, has a genuine, well-documented biological basis. Gender dysphoria in young children is a real thing, but usually resolves itself. In some cases it does not, and many people feel the best path is to live as the other sex.
Yeah exactly. To my mind, no one from the west has been held accountable for the iraq war. Certainly not the american executive at the time. People forget about wars and the guilty go unpunished. George w bush is still living it up playing golf and shit.
If people don't get punished, bad behaviour continues and the imperialists keep going with tacit approval.
-
If i want the societal role of a god
There's a well-respected societal role for a God, but you have to turn water into wine and give away fish and bread, and in the end I warn you it doesn't turn out well. Although you get resurrected.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The "two party system" is better described as "one party, two faces".
Does Manning have any of those conditions?
Utterly irrelevant.
The original claim is XY means male. The existence of those conditions proves beyond any doubt that XY is not the same as male, because there exist cases of XY where people are clearly, indisputably not male.
What you're trying to do is muddy to waters so the original claim of "XY is male" stands while hedging like hell.
Allowing people to live a lie that they are some other gender than what they were born is not good for their own mental health
Allowing people to not believe in Jesus will make them go to hell. We must convert them for their own good.
Thing is you're stating an opinion as if it were fact because you WANT to believe it's true, not because it is true. The evidence is very mixed. you claiming it as a known fact is you imposing your considerable biases.
What I want to know is why you care so much?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
He didn't; he gave away sensitive information which very well could have gotten plenty of good men and women killed
You say "plenty". Do you have any evidence that a single person did get killed?
Have you forgotten Abu Ghraib? That's the true face of the USA. The USA would be a very different place if not for people like Chelsea Manning who are willing to go to prison for their belief in justice.
No sig today...
While you're there you could comment on the US prison system.
I don't mean the sheer number of people in there, I mean the way that it's a place for institutionalized rape and that most Americans seem to be perfectly OK with that.
The two things (Abu Ghraib and federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison) seem related to me. The idea that there's whole classes/races of people who somehow "deserve" to be tortured, abused and shot at seems to be prevalent in the USA.
No sig today...
War crimes.
Give me a specific example of a war crime which occurred and for which "no one from the west has been held accountable".
Methed-up helicopter pilots who can't tell the difference between a fucking camera and a rocket launcher, killing journalists before confirming their targets are hostiles.
Give me an example of this occurring. No, the Bradley Manning video doesn't show that, no matter how much you would like to pretend that it does.
Abu-ghraib prisoner abuse and torture.
Plenty of people were held accountable for this, which directly contradicts the original claim.
Robert Bales. Kandahar massacre.
Got life in prison. Again, what kind of retard thinks this is an example of westerners not being held accountable?
The puppy pitcher. Don't look it up.
He was booted out of the marines, and his buddy was disciplined. Strike three, you're out!
Shall I continue?
If you're going to provide more of the same, then no, you certainly shouldn't. If you have some legit examples then please start.
I had hoped we were living in a society that could recognize the difference and be BETTER about how we treat those that buck the system for a greater cause. Silly me.
And why the general public wouldn't care about what criminals do to each other?
No, I want you to explain why the general public thinks they're all "hardened criminals" (they aren't) and (b), why even "hardened criminals" deserve that.
(Conversely, why should the other hardened criminals be allowed to have "fun" doing it? The very worst of society seems to have great fun in prison)
For you to single out the USA says far more about your biases than it does about the actual character of the United States as a nation.
I single it out because a) America makes more noise about being decent and upstanding, and b) Because people in other countries see it as a genuine problem and try to do something whereas it's on the rise in the USA.
No sig today...
This panicked claim again. What is your problem? Male/Female is not nearly as definite as you insecure idiots claim.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
There is an attack on masculinity, and men are choosing to hand in their "man card" and get "reassigned". For every woman that decides to get "reassigned" there are 9 men that do the same, so this is largely a matter of men allowing themselves to be castrated.
Ah, _that_ is your defect. And, not surprisingly, you have no understanding of what the facts actually imply. The simple reason female to male is much rarer is that it does not really work well surgically. This has absolutely nothing to do with "an attack on masculinity". If that one is real, it is happening somewhere else.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
"Classified" is just a statute construction only in effect since 1917. While it's the single best tool the power brokers have to subjugate the masses, it has no moral authority. You certainly won't find it as a power listed in the Constitution (because the founders knew the dangers of a secret government).
Manning may be a violator of statute but she's a patriot to the Constitution.
My God, it's Full of Source!
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