Slashdot Mirror
Coders Used Ham Radio To Send Bitcoin From Canada To San Francisco (coindesk.com)
"In what appears to be a first-of-its-kind transaction, two developers working in separate countries have successfully sent a bitcoin lightning payment over radio waves," writes CoinBase.
An anonymous reader quotes their report: The completed payment effectively moved real bitcoin from Toronto, Canada, to San Francisco, California... But sending bitcoin over radio isn't just fun. Some researchers argue it actually has a necessary use case... The idea is that, while the internet can potentially be censored, it's not the only form of technology that can be used to send data from one part of the world to another, "in case China decides to censor bitcoin via the Great Firewall, or places like North Korea where there is no internet at all," as Bloomberg columnist Elaine Ou put it in an email to CoinDesk.
Technology infrastructure startup Blockstream licensed satellites that beam bitcoin to users around the world for similar reasons.
An anonymous reader quotes their report: The completed payment effectively moved real bitcoin from Toronto, Canada, to San Francisco, California... But sending bitcoin over radio isn't just fun. Some researchers argue it actually has a necessary use case... The idea is that, while the internet can potentially be censored, it's not the only form of technology that can be used to send data from one part of the world to another, "in case China decides to censor bitcoin via the Great Firewall, or places like North Korea where there is no internet at all," as Bloomberg columnist Elaine Ou put it in an email to CoinDesk.
Technology infrastructure startup Blockstream licensed satellites that beam bitcoin to users around the world for similar reasons.
Perfect, now the sneaky tax auditors won't have a clue when I move my money out of the high taxed state of NY! They've been auditing me and have asked for my boarding records for my dog, since I boarded her while I was in Florida for 7 months. They told me I'm still a primary NY resident since I boarded her here in Long Island. What a bunch of crap to steal my money.
Radio waves exist, can be used to send information! May have potential uses, to be determined.
betcha there's a few million bitcoins in those moist grooves
Nerds were excited, nobody else cared.
The article isn't saying people have started using radio waves to communicate; rather, it's saying BTC enthusiasts are serious about communicating in decentralized ways, especially ways that don't depend on the increasingly centralized Internet proper.
The endless logical fallacies of you and your ilk are why we can't have nice things.
Wait until someone does this via moon-bounce. I can see the headline now: "Bitcoin coming from the Moon."
Also since this is Lightning network aka off-blockchain, I'm wondering if the ham transmissions work with transaction disputing (which causes the Lightning transactions up to that point to go on-blockchain).
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Dog just hungry. Dog just want food. Now.
how to start a riot at a Ham Radio convention?
>ask which type of antenna is best.
See RFC 1149 or RFC 2549
TFA is experimenting with using radios to transmit information long distances because they fear repressive regimes censoring data passed through the interwebs.
This makes me wonder about why repressive regimes would allow the use of a communications mechanism that can't be censored in the first place.
TFS mentions North Korea, well the magic interwebs have this to say about North Korea Licensing of Ham Radios:
Only North Korea and Yemen do not issue amateur radio licenses to their citizens, although in both cases a limited number of foreign visitors have been permitted to obtain amateur licenses in the past. HamCall.Net lists 19 amateur stations in North Korea assigned in the P5 series, although the specific call signs themselves remain unknown.[6] A Serbian amateur writes that he was "licensed" as P5A, but that he was not allowed to operate on either occasion he was in the country.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Smoke Signal
or Jungle Drums
At least these would be interesting and somewhat novel ways to convey wireless data. It
Wireless digital data is old hat, look at your cell phone, or just about anything else.
"Das ist verboten!" is hardly the point.
Are you surprised the people still use guns in jurisdictions that outlaw them?
Let's say That I somehow have the ability to Make It Rain Bitcoins in North Korea. Now what? They have no internet. The government will just take it. Good luck with that.
You could also try using two midgets with tin cans and a string. They could shout ones and zeros at each other transmitting digital data.
Bitcoin/crytocurrencies couldn't handle it, when there were large numbers of trans, even using way faster internet!!! :-)
& they think a global cryptocurrency trade could worked using ham radio???
Imagine, in post-apocalyptic world (?), people buying anything & waiting for weeks (months?) for transaction to be authorized!!!
They go together like coffee and donuts.
"But sending bitcoin over radio isn’t just fun. Some researchers argue it actually has a necessary use case." Fun it may be, even 'necessary', but sorry, it isn't legal. FCC rules (97.3) forbid using amateur radio for pecuniary interests. Probably illegal in Canada and most other countries too.
... as a "shadow," Internet.
We need a do-over. The current Internet sucks tater toes.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
That kind of violates 2 legal requirements for amateur radio... The FCC regulations for amateur radio, part 97 specifies amateur (HAM) radio must be Non-commercial & encrypted. Sending money is inherently commercial which is prohibited on amateur frequencies & is pretty clearly a violation. Encryption vs signing arguments could be made, but it's a bit murky at best.
Section 97.113 (4) “messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein”
Part 97.3 (4):
(4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
Part 97.113 (3) about explicitly prohibited activities:
(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;
I can't speak for the lesser countries of the world (like Canada), but in the U.S., the Constitution forbids governments from restricting the free speech of The People; a government cannot outlaw one person communicating with another person.
All such cases to the contrary (including the ol' "Yelling 'fire' in a crowded theatre" scenario, or gag orders) are either popular myth are actively a matter of legal debate about constitutionality.
This is all well and good, as long as you have electricity. But as Venezuelans are finding out as we speak, you can't very easily transmit bitcoins over radio if you don't have any electricity to power your radio in the first place. North Korea? Most don't have electricity to speak of either.
Ham Radio is USA and Canada does not permit communications that are encrypted. Can't use Ham Radio for this application as the laws are written.
is that, while the internet can potentially be censored, it's not the only form of technology that can be used to send data from one part of the world to another, "in case China decides to censor bitcoin via the Great Firewall, or places like North Korea where there is no internet at all
Countries that regulate the Internet ALSO regulate radio operators, and have been doing so long before the PARENTS of whomever came up with this scheme were born. Radio transmission as a means of communicating with people living in an oppressive government, and bitcoin... as if transferring currency is the most pressing concern people face in a country you might need to resort to radio to reach the outside world.
North Korea would murder you for operating the radio equipment.
China, IDK, your BEST case might be some money transmitter or anti laundering regulations and re-education camp if they didn't go straight for espionage related charges, and why wouldn't they.. clandestinely transferring international funds into the country.. think about it.
There are better above board ways of transferring money anywhere you can run a radio transmitter without going to prison.
If nobody else has paid you to transmit that signal, then you don't trigger those regulations; you're not selling your transmissions.
You would have to send it encrypted which isn't allowed over amateur radio. You're also not allowed to use amateur radio for commercial purposes either and each station in the contact must identify themselves at the start and end of the "conversation" and periodically usually every 10-15 minutes. So you'd not be able to send it encrypted nor be able to send it anonymously without BOTH parties breaking the terms of their licence. Depending on how well the respective country enforcement is it could mean fines or worse. Certainly the FCC would investigate.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
Announcing to someone "I'm hungry. I'd love to eat a pepperoni pizza right now." is perfectly legitimate.
If a recipient of that message then shows up at your doorstep with a pepperoni pizza and says "Hey. I'll give you this pepperoni pizza if you give me $17", then that's also legitimate.
In any case, hunger can be an emergency.
Moral of the story: Government is a stupid idea.
In order to have case laws, you need a case.
In any case, Bitcoin doesn't require encrypted communications; neither does the Lightning Networking, fundamentally. In fact, Bitcoin has very little to do with cryptography.
It demonstrates objectively that there are people in the world who don't care what paper-pushing bureaucrats write on paper; they're going to do what they're going to do.
It creates a real-world case that can now be tested in a court of law; legal questions can be asked and answered, including future cases regarding the constitutionality of restricting the content of transmissions, the nature of borders, abstractions of the right to assemble peaceably, and so forth.
You dumbfucks and wring your hands or wave away these developments until the cows come home, but the cows are coming home. This is happening; the actual people of the world (as opposed to the braindead NPCs) are going to move forward with their plans. The game is getting increasingly interesting; interesting times are coming. That is a very meaningful message.
Like writing a wallet address on a piece of paper and sending it in an envelope?
Without independent access to the blockchain however, you can't verify your transaction. You'd have to trust the other party is being honest.
The use-case of being in a country where your internet access is cut off, you need to put your trust in someone else to verify transactions.
* We're talking about the content of communications, not the method of communication.
* Ultimately, the same stupid arguments and regulations could be constructed around another shared medium, such as sound waves. I'm not saying that a government won't try to crush you for ignoring it, but rather that a government and its regulations have no logical foundation whatsoever. I'm laughing at the absurdity of your/their conviction.
I love how you cling to that word like it means something. Everything is "indirect", which means no communication is allowed whatsoever.
This is the nature of government: The only thing you know for sure is that you should do what you're told in this exact moment. As an authority when something is "indirect", and he'll tell you quite directly: "I know it when I see it."
Controlling the medium of communication is a possible role for government. In the U.S., however, the government has no role when it comes to regulating the content of said communication; any existing laws to the contrary are actually not very settled law.
It's certainly not illegal to "send an obscure message" you idiot, lol. I love pseudo-authoritarians, they're always surprised when it happens right in front of their face. People have been doing this for decades, sorry kiddo.
Before people start getting amateur licenses to transmit blockchain information, please note that doing so almost certainly violates FCC regulations in the U.S.
The FCC is very specific with respect to ham radio: transmissions must not involve "pecuniary interests" for any of the parties involved in the message. That includes parties that may indirectly benefit from the message.
Note the following from http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-s...:
There are a very few instances where transmissions of "pecuniary interest" are permitted (e.g. teachers with ham licenses can demonstrate amateur radio to students while being paid their salaries, and hams can advertise sales of personal radio equipment on local nets), but I can just about guarantee that sending blockchain information would not be one of them.
Don't be so self-absorbed.
Your comment was merely the scaffolding on which to hang a much more important comment; it's not about you or directed at you in particular.
About the censored network use case: radio can be triangulated, If you use it for an activity that upsets a totalitarian regime, they will find you to make it stop. It may be an unpleasant exprience.
47 CFR Â97.113(a)(2) prohibits American amateurs' use of amateur radio for communications related to pecuniary interest. You can't even order a pizza via #hamradio. @eiaine KM6NCF may find herself in hot water if FCC are paying attention.
The FCC dictates one mustn'ttrade via ham radio
The frequency shown on the bandscope is not within authorized ham radio frequencies. The people mentioned are not licensed radio amateurs. The communication would have been illegal under two different Amateur Radio rules, one regarding encryption for the purpose of obscuring the meaning of a communication, and one regarding communications for remuneration.
Bruce Perens.
Encryption, on amateur radio, is completely forbidden except for a few times where it’s completely mandatory.
Controlling remote hardware, for one - especially model aircraft! There’s also some compelling arguments to be made about control of remote radios, such as repeaters. In this case, encryption isn’t being used to obscure the content of the message, but to authenticate the message and prevent spoofing.
Participating in a search-and-rescue operation, or any other time you have cause to transmit someone’s medical records or other PII. In radio, rules tend to (formally, even!) stop mattering, being enforced, etc. Even statute and regulation says they have to stop being enforced, when violating rules is necessary to protect life, limb, or property.
Anarchy means "without rulers". You can have rules or rulers, but not both. Radio was developed by individuals engaging in voluntary interaction, and works today despite government, not because of it.
Government is a stupid idea; it should be replaced with capitalism—law by contracts, not law by decree.
Contractual negotiation and enforcement is a service like any other, and doesn't fundamentally depend on violent imposition; law by contracts is an iterative process.
Afaik you can't censor ham radio, but you can definitely track down the people sending signals and disappear them, and if you're really desperate you can jam the signal. How long until China determines ham is the devil and needs gone?
becauuuuuussssseee....he/she didn't actually move to Florida. Trying to claim residency in another state with no income or estate tax to avoid paying it in NY, yet still wanting all the benefit of living here.
Being of humble means to barely afford only one residence I don't begrudge another's ability to have properties anywhere they choose, but you have to pay your taxes. Want the no tax life of Florida, then move there.
This transaction was not legal. if the FCC is monitoring Slashdot the team that operating the US end of this transaction will be screwed. Fines up the whaazoo.
Business transactions over Amature Radio are banned. Even ordering a Pizza over 2m radio through a phone autopatch is banned.
I only use Amature Radio for testing my SDR confiurations and flying FPV.
According to the article, the team on the US side didn't have an Amature License. If they get found they could face fines and penalties, a cease and disist order, and all hardware siezed.
If you are intent on using this particular medium, then it should be trivial to add steganography to the equation and get past the "no encryption (as far as anyone could prove)" part. There are way to do that, where it would be impossible to prove stego was being used--as long as they don't have access to the software at either end.
Not to mention the fact that while the article pretends that sending Bitcoin via radio somehow removes government's ability to censor you, in order to legally use that spectrum, you need to first obtain a license from same government, which is revocable at any time. This is true in more countries than just the US.
You can also send it with flag signals, smoke signals and torches, it's data!
Call me when they send some Montreal Smoked meat, from Montreal to San Francisco. This ham business is for amateurs!
That's a major fine at the least, if not a revoked license.
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
Adam Curry posted this on Feb 13:
https://mobile.twitter.com/adamcurry/status/1095736282158907393
The frequency IS within amateur radio frequencies: 20 Meters (14.0-14.35 MHz), the screenshot shows them at 14.200Mhz, USB.
The people mentioned ARE licensed amateur radio operators: Elaine Ou, KM6NCF; Rodolfo Novak, VE3NAK.