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Is Believing In Meritocracy Bad For You? (fastcompany.com)

An anonymous reader quotes Fast Company: Although widely held, the belief that merit rather than luck determines success or failure in the world is demonstrably false. This is not least because merit itself is, in large part, the result of luck. Talent and the capacity for determined effort, sometimes called "grit," depend a great deal on one's genetic endowments and upbringing.

This is to say nothing of the fortuitous circumstances that figure into every success story. In his book Success and Luck, the U.S. economist Robert Frank recounts the long-shots and coincidences that led to Bill Gates's stellar rise as Microsoft's founder, as well as to Frank's own success as an academic. Luck intervenes by granting people merit, and again by furnishing circumstances in which merit can translate into success. This is not to deny the industry and talent of successful people. However, it does demonstrate that the link between merit and outcome is tenuous and indirect at best. According to Frank, this is especially true where the success in question is great, and where the context in which it is achieved is competitive. There are certainly programmers nearly as skilful as Gates who nonetheless failed to become the richest person on Earth. In competitive contexts, many have merit, but few succeed. What separates the two is luck.

In addition to being false, a growing body of research in psychology and neuroscience suggests that believing in meritocracy makes people more selfish, less self-critical, and even more prone to acting in discriminatory ways.

The article cites a pair of researchers who "found that, ironically, attempts to implement meritocracy leads to just the kinds of inequalities that it aims to eliminate.

"They suggest that this 'paradox of meritocracy' occurs because explicitly adopting meritocracy as a value convinces subjects of their own moral bona fides."

36 of 480 comments (clear)

  1. Slashdot promoting SJW agendas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Next on Slashdot.. how merit is racist and sexist. /s

  2. Fortune favors the well prepared by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a really really old saying. So yes luck bestows merit but the important part isn't that. True Merit is needed to take advantage of Luck. Nearly every experimental graduate student will tell you it takes 2 weeks of work to get a PhD but it takes 5 years to find be prepared to recognize the 2 weeks.

    It's also slightly like the repairman called in to repair the machine after the comapny techs have exhausted themselves with no success. He just taps it with a hammer on the side, it works, and he sends a $1000 bill. When they company thinks the hourly rate for just a single tap can't justify the bill they denad he itemize it. So he sends the new bill. $1 tapping in side, $999 knowing where to tap.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Fortune favors the well prepared by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The grand flaw in the whole original premise is the idea that all that Bill needed was to know how to code. Building a successful business takes a bit more than that. The ivory tower nit wits don't understand what they are supposed to be measuring so they declare that it doesn't exist at all.

      The entire narrative plays great with people who don't want to take any kind of responsibility for themselves. They can easily externalize their own failings.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  3. What is a meritocracy anyway by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Meritocracy is a concept so nebulous that it's hard to say much about because "merit" is a very nebulous concept. I can feel the downmods already.

    The thing is very very few careers and jobs are solo ones. Engineering in particular is a team sport. Even the very best 10x engineers cant build the entire system all by themselves; there are too many niche areas of expertise and just too much stuff to get done.

    The thing is once you are in a job with other people, merit isnt just about *technical* merit. Metit is about your ability broadly speaking to generate value for the company you work at.

    Now here's where it gets trickier still: good people generally find it easier to move between jobs. Bad people cling on to their job like a life-raft because they don't know where the next one is coming from. Bad working environments tend to concentrate bad people because the good people cycle out faster and the bad people stay.

    We have all (well probably many of us) been in or seen situations where that's happened. Even something as neutral as "attrition" where the budget is cut and they stop hiring new people (even replacements) and rely on natural cycling to redcue the workforce. As the project tems get strained the working environment gets worse until the good people start to leave.

    Well, toxic individuals are part of it. A great programmer who causes other pretty good programmers to leave is not a net asset. Unless that programmer can do everything (which we know isnt the case), the company would be better off with someone with les sharp techincal skills who doesn't cause all the other techincally skilled people to leave.

    And the thing is good people do leave. You spend a lot of your life at work. You've only got one life and there's a ton of interesting stuff to do in it, so why waste any time on arseholes?

    And that is the point where merit becomes a whole load more than "can code well" and so on. Engineering is a team sport and teams do not work well with lone wolves no matter how skilled.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
    1. Re:What is a meritocracy anyway by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Gates didn't get rich because of his programming skills, he got rich because of his business skills

      Its a mix: he happened to need both to capitalise on that opportunity. Once the money started coming in its clear which skillset took the front seat. Its the business skill that took him from selling a successful product to mega rich.

      and he got lucky, but his business skills were good enough he would have gotten rich even without the IBM mistakes. Just not as rich

      And he got lucky in being born into a rich family. Its astonishingly hard to get rich without a hefty dose of working capital: its glibly said that its easier to make two million dollars from one million than two dollars from one.

      Generally you need to be smart, hard working and lucky to strike it rich.

      On the other hand there are a lot of people here who fetishise a narrow view on technical skills to the point where they believe a "true" metriocracy is concerned only with that, which is why my post is getting downmods.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:What is a meritocracy anyway by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its astonishingly hard to get rich without a hefty dose of working capital

      If you know how to use money to make more, people will be falling over themselves to give you capital. Getting money isn't a problem in the real world.

      Generally you need to be smart, hard working

      That's conventional wisdom, right? "Gotta work ten hour days at your startup to make it a success." Interestingly it's not true, some startups succeed without overworking themselves. Really though, what are you going to do in those extra two hours that you can't hire someone to do? Working long hours is just penny-pinching and inefficient unless you are working to overcome a temporary crisis or something.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:What is a meritocracy anyway by phantomfive · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How do you demonstrate that you can do more than talk a good game?

      You don't. All you have to do is talk good game.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:What is a meritocracy anyway by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      None of what you wrote isn’t true outside of some struggle you seem to have with the notion of merit or meritocracy. I’ve only pointed out that you shouldn’t be as confused as your are or consider it to be as nebulous as you do.

      Difficult to measure doesn’t mean it isn’t useful or practical. You probably can’t define exactly what constitutes “quality” either, but I still bet you use it as a factor when deciding what to purchase.

      It seems like you can fathom the idea of merit being tied to value generation which is maybe the fairest way to measure it. Value generation doesn’t care where you’re from, who your parents were, where you went to school, or anything else that might bias a person against you. So why are you so hung up about using that as the basis for hiring or firing decisions? You might argue that a person merely got lucky as the article does, but if someone has heads come up twenty times in a row, there’s a better explanation than luck.

      Similarly, people who ignore anything but technical skills will be limited just like a team that only values offense isn’t guaranteed to win any championships. People make poor decisions all the time. A meritocracy ensures that over a long enough period of time, good behavior is rewarded. Maybe you think it takes too long for people to get their just deserts, but the average person can’t run around being a prick all day without it catching up to them.

      Based on your signature my only real guess is that meritocracy is a dirty word for you because the kind of people you don’t agree with politically always bag on about it. Guess what, they drink water and breathe air as well. You’re not going to start shunning those activities are you? Even if you don’t agree with someone due to ideological differences, it doesn’t mean that they’re wrong about everything. You likely use a merit based approach in your own daily decision making. If you aren’t, what are you doing that you think is a better approach?

    5. Re:What is a meritocracy anyway by CronoCloud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Didn't you know? Bill Gates got EARLY access to computers at his high school. It's easy to get a head start as a programmer who later starts a business when 99 percent of high schools didn't have access to a computer.

      Also when he met with IBM, one of the IBM execs said to him: "Aren't you Mary Gate's boy?"

      Gates was appointed to the board of directors of the national United Way in 1980, becoming the first woman to lead it in 1983. Her tenure on the national board's executive committee is believed to have helped Microsoft, based in Seattle, at a crucial time. In 1980, she discussed her son's company with John Opel, a fellow committee member and the chairman of International Business Machines Corporation (IBM). Opel, by some accounts, mentioned Mrs. Gates to other IBM executives. A few weeks later, IBM took a chance by hiring Microsoft, then a small software firm, to develop an operating system for its first personal computer.[2]

  4. Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, stop equating money with success. There are truly outstanding people out there who eschew money, use it to achieve better things (hoarding money isn't success... spending it to help things get better for everyone might well be!), or who don't value it enough over other things to bother to "succeed" in making more than they need. There are Nobek prize winners who rejected the prize or donated it.

    Don't equate celebrity with success. The most successful people don't seek celebrity and often died in obscurity (famous scientists among them).

    A meritocracy, like democracy, isn't a bad thing to strive for, but impossible to achieve with human nature. But you have to judge by actual merits.

    Though Gates has his foundation he still has more money than he could ever reasonably use for his entire family and friends for generations to come. Is that a merit? I'm not sure.

    Like evolution, merit is not about every outlier on the scale... it' s about pushing the average upward overall over time. There will always be freaks of nature and 'the lucky' who thrived by chance rather than their genes or outlook (e.g. living in an enclosed valley witg no predators, ot literally avoiding every predator, or living in a food-rich environment from birth, etc.) That doesn't mean that how they operated was what made them successful... merely chance.

    People win the lottery or inherit fortunes and then buy manors and act like lords. They always have. It doesn't mean *they* are inherently more successful.

    Put Trump back in the streets, penniless, without contacts or influence, or inheritance and see how well he does.

    But, if anything, it means we should all strive for success and should spread the luck we do have around. Because singular examples of success are far outweighed by multitudes of examples of failure despite enormous hard work and efforr and determination.

  5. Re: More Like Idiocracy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Meritocracy is about identifying merit, not punishing those who lack merit in some way. Everybody lacks merit in some way. If you want the best answer, use a meritocracy. It doesn't mean you throw the losers off the lifeboat. The losers may very well win the next round. I find the people who eschew meritocracies generally enjoy some sort of secret advantage that would disappear if truth came out and the best solution were found. Ultimately trust makes meritocracy work best as the ultimate win in a meritocracy comes from putting yourself out of a job by training and encouraging those who seem to have more talent than you at different tasks. Winning by losing is a standard tactic in merit-oriented organizations.

  6. Finding the right people ... by Qbertino · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... to be successful with is a large part, among with avoiding people who waste your time being a code second.

    I've spent 20 years working for countless projects and 10 years meeting a variety of women and only now, in my late 40ies am I finally bearing the fruits of my lessons. I see idiots, timewasters and opportunists coming from miles away and see my sexual interests plummet in seconds when I come across a latently schizophrenic chika, no matter how hot she may look.

    On the plus side my relationship now is not only fun but actually productive and my career is starting to pick up simply because I've learned not to waste a single second on opportunites that aren't any or don't advance my own development. Out on people that talk bullshit and only claim to know more than I do but really don't.

    Knowing to see through the fake is something people like me have to learn the harder way. I presume that accounts for many differences in the way things go for people.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  7. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's not an example of meritocracy, it's one of nepotism. Affirmative action is another.

    Societies that can't handle reality are doomed to fail. Some people are better, faster than others. Deal with it. People are tribal and place undue value in charismatic leaders. Deal with it. If you can't, there's always Sally Struthers' offer of TV/VCR repair and auto mechanic training. In the meantime, focusing on merit helps mitigate these tendencies.

  8. Missing factor by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although widely held, the belief that merit rather than luck determines success or failure in the world is demonstrably false. This is not least because merit itself is, in large part, the result of luck. Talent and the capacity for determined effort, sometimes called "grit," depend a great deal on one's genetic endowments and upbringing.

    Those of us who have "underclass" relatives, no matter our race, have also see how black, white, etc. they almost always dismiss the role that hard work plays in others' success. Most of the time "life just happens to them." Drugs, booze, kids out of wedlock? Shit happens. Little concept of "damn, I did this to myself."

    It's conveniently fatalistic and ignores the fact that yes, you can make your own luck in many cases even if it's not the level you would like to have.

  9. No. by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What a load of horseshit. In all my years, I have never come across a situation where I couldn't prove my worth to an employer or client through hard work.

    I'm not particularly intelligent. I'm not good looking, nor am I all that charismatic. What I am is persistent, and I have an understanding of what it takes to succeed ( it may sound cliche, but "never give up" ).

    Oh, I've had set backs because of nepotism. Idiot managers and bosses surely have gotten in my way. I don't let that slow me down, however; I keep pushing through it.

    Meritocracy isn't perfect, but it works when you do that one thing; don't give up. What more could you ask for?

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
  10. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A central tenet of post-modernism is that "there is no such thing as merit". Anyone who succeeds can only do so because privilege, as there is no such thing as merit. Every successful person is an oppressor, as there is no such thing as merit.

    Meritocracy, the idea of meritocracy, is the very antithesis of post-modernism. And post-modernism is the most evil philosophy that has ever been conceived.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  11. Article is bunk by SirAstral · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Meritocracy is NOT the problem. The problem is what kind of controls are in place to ensure that Meritocracy continues to exist when those in power begin to find way to abuse the system. This argument goes to everything in existence.

    Every system is fine so long as it is run by benevolent actors... any malevolent actors will cause damage... be it meritocracy or otherwise. The ONLY system that is the best system is one that creates controls for the "ocracy" to overcome the inherent corruption that humans will bring as they institutionalize the practice being used. This argument is at the core of our very political beings and everyone is missing that key important factor in favor of their political dogma..

    Any "ocracy" you create will work well when it is run by benevolent actors. any "ocracy" you create will fail when it is run by malevolent actors. You must always count on a malevolent actor gaining a position of power and controls must be in place to treat that as a certainty, otherwise the system fails because there will be no control to remove malevolent actors without resorting to methods that are likely considered chaos.

    Meritocracy is fine, the problem is when a person merits their way to the top and stops being meritorious of that position and finds a way to remain at the top despite no longer meriting this. So really the problem is closer too... how to start being a Meritocracy and STAYING a meritocracy.

  12. With that argument, almost anything is 'luck' by PuddleBoy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Genetics = luck?
    Great teacher in school = luck?
    Choosing to follow intuition = luck?

    Seems to me that, with a sufficiently large value of 'luck', you could encompass almost all circumstances. And I mean ALL.

    How about;

    Genetics at birth = luck, but study and intellectual exploration = merit
    Great teacher = luck, but putting forth the effort to learn and developing your intellect with challenges (from the teacher) = merit
    And I can't even touch the third one: if you develop the ability to use intuition to solve problems and choose the 'best' option, that's merit.

    In other words, luck is a circumstance, but merit is the result of a series of choices.

    And with that, my PhD thesis is complete.....

  13. Not a programmer, author is an idiot by raymorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That sentence demonstrates without requiring much thought what the article demonstrates if you think about it -
    the author is an idiot.

    Bill Gates isn't a successful programmer, he didn't write DOS. He's an incredibly successful business person, he bought and sold DOS and managed a company to turn it into billions.

    Here's a little story about luck. I recently got lucky and got a new high-paying job. Maybe my dream job. Lucky for me, the hiring managers were looking for someone to do the types of things I have been doing at work lately, such as teaching a CISSP course. My class consisted of about 50 employees ranging from our head of internal security to recently hired engineers. The reason I volunteered to do such a class was precisely to raise my profile as a security expert - to put self in front of these managers while I filled the role of security expert. If you want to eventually have options of good security jobs, it doesn't hurt to have the head of security see that you are an expert, I figured. Twice per month I attended a meetings of security groups like OWASP and ISC2. At those meetings I talked to dozens of people about the companies they worked for and which skill sets they were hitting for. I kept on eye on the open positions at three local companies I was interested in. I tried to learn more about the skills they were looking for. I kept my LinkedIn updated with accomplishments and fielded calls from recruiters several times per week - mostly pointless calls. I kept a copy my resume in my car and gave it to someone who might be able to hire me. I did a good job at my current role, asking my co-workers and my boss how I could improve. I struggled to actually be *nice* to co-workers, although my natural state is asshole.

    Overall I did hundreds of things to increase my odds of landing a great job. Hundreds of things "didn't work" immediately, yet I kept doing them. Eventually I "got lucky" and two of the things I was doing aligned with what a company was looking for and I landed the great job. How lucky.

    It's like wearing a seatbelt. 99.9% of the time, if you don't wear a seatbelt nothing bad will happen. But eventually there will be an accident, so if you don't wear a seatbelt 99.9% of the time, you're probably going to end up hurt.

    A large percentage of people who found very successful businesses first started several businesses that were not successful. They learned from their failures and kept trying. Eventually they learned enough and try enough things to find one that worked well - they "got lucky" and did tell right things, by trying a lot of things that seemed likely to be right.

    We all make a hundred decisions every day. Starting with whether to hit the anooze button and ending with going to bed in time. Do we stop to help the person on the aide of the road while we're on the way to work?

    We have a hundred "luck" situations every day - the stranded motorist could be the president of our company, could be our future spouse, who knows. That's luck. When we cut someone off in traffic, or get cut off, the person we flipped the bird to might be in a rush to get to an interview on time - them interviewing us. In the elevator when we smile at someone oe don't, who that person is depends on luck. In any given year we have thousands of "luck" possibilities. Some will be great opportunities, some won't be.

    Success and failure happens when our thousands of choices each year meet our thousands of lucky opportunities. Someone who is habitually rude will, by chance, end up being rude to the written person, eventually. Someone who is always helpful will, by chance, eventually be helpful to the right person.

    Luck determines whether our fate happens on Wednesday or on Thursday. Our habits determine whether we'll be doing to right thing or the wrong thing when those opportunities come by.

    1. Re:Not a programmer, author is an idiot by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't forget confirmation bias. The lucky business success does all the things you said and then the right things happen at the right time and he is successful. The unlucky one does the same things until he is out of money and out of time. Then he takes whatever work he can get to not end up on the street and he is tioo busy punching the clock to be there to shake the right hand at lunch or because he is a 3rd level flunky, the right person doesn't actually listen to the revolutionary idea he has over lunch.

      You'll never hear about that guy. Nobody invites 3rd level flunkies to do interviews.

      Skill, good decisions, and a willingness to work certainly can increase your odds, but they are not sufficient.

    2. Re:Not a programmer, author is an idiot by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, it's weird but preparation often seems to be a super-strong magnet for "luck".

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re:Not a programmer, author is an idiot by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This reminds me of when my son was young and we'd fix something together.

      I miraculously always had the tool(s) we needed and my son would say, "It's lucky we had that (insert name of tool), huh dad?"

      "Yes, very lucky," I would say, "very lucky that daddy just happened to go out years ago and buy it, huh?"

      He got it after a couple of those go-arounds.

      Yes, sometimes you do just have blammo-out-of-the-blue luck, but most of the time it's just being prepared.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    4. Re:Not a programmer, author is an idiot by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is nothing "long shot" about Gates.

      Bingo.

      Gates had the backing to succeed pretty much no matter what he did. He had the resources to leverage (connections, money, etc), which most of us don't.

      He was born a poor white millionaire and parlayed it into something bigger.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    5. Re:Not a programmer, author is an idiot by vix86 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hence, the quote: "Success occurs when opportunity meets preparation."

      There is also the similar quote supposedly attributed to Seneca: "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."

  14. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While much of what you wrote is true, you clearly didn't RTFA.

    A few quotes that demonstrate what they are referring to:

    The most common metaphor is the “even playing field” upon which players can rise to the position that fits their merit. ... wealth and advantage are merit’s rightful compensation, not the fortuitous windfall of external events. Most people don’t just think the world should be run meritocratically, they think it is meritocratic. In the U.K., 84% of respondents to the 2009 British Social Attitudes survey stated that hard work is either “essential” or “very important” when it comes to getting ahead, and in 2016 the Brookings Institute found that 69% of Americans believe that people are rewarded for intelligence and skill. Respondents in both countries believe that external factors, such as luck and coming from a wealthy family, are much less important. While these ideas are most pronounced in these two countries, they are popular across the globe. ... Where success is determined by merit, each win can be viewed as a reflection of one’s own virtue and worth.

    Thus their conclusions and the title. If you believe the world IS driven by merit, if your own actions and efforts alone can transform you into a C-suite executive or billionaire, the result ranges from being an unrealistic optimism about work, to a self-destructive attitude, to confusion and delusion about why their hard work is not being rewarded.

    The belief is also why so many people tend to be self-praising, they write about that belief, "It licenses the rich and powerful to view themselves as productive geniuses.", and when used by the poor, destroys morale and self worth.

    While it is valuable to put people in charge of projects because they have a demonstrated ability to get things done, hence meritocracy, the article is declaring that the world does not work that way and many other factors like family wealth, race, luck, nepotism, and good old fashioned boot-licking are the way a large part of how the world actually works.

    --
    //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
  15. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by CronoCloud · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's not an example of meritocracy, it's one of nepotism.

    Which proves that true meritocracy is a pipe dream believed in by people wanting to ensure themselves they're smart or whatever and earned their success instead of benefitting from the status quo/race/family money

    Affirmative action is another.

    Say you applied for a job and the employer threw away the applications of minorities...which has been known to happen and has been caught on camera, YOU just benefitted from racism. You didn't know it, but you did. And then if you say "I earned my sucess" you're wrong, you didn't earn it fairly. You didn't have to compete on a fair playing field. The deck was stacked in your favor, you were rolling attack rolls in the RPG of real-life with a D20 modified to roll 20's more often.

    Sure, guys like you believe that we live in a Meritocracy, it makes you feel better about your selfishness bigotry and racism: "Why those ghetto people are undeserving, they should do what I did. They're just lazy" But society as a whole was giving you XP boosts, extra loot, early access, and you didn't even know it.

  16. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by lgw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While much of what you wrote is true, you clearly didn't RTFA.

    must be new here.

    If you believe the world IS driven by merit, if your own actions and efforts alone can transform you into a C-suite executive or billionaire, the result ranges from being an unrealistic optimism about work, to a self-destructive attitude, to confusion and delusion about why their hard work is not being rewarded.

    Which is just post-modernism light.

    If you demonstrate merit you're going to be more successful than otherwise. We don't need to reduce the world to childish black or white, all or nothing. Live as if it were true that merit is rewarded, and you will be happier and more successful. That doesn't mean that's your only consideration in life, but don't simply be bitter and cynical and never try.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  17. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Does it make you feel good to call people who disagree with you Nazis?

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  18. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Everybody else is bad!" - What a convenient excuse for your abject failure in life.

  19. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by sfcat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does it make you feel good to call people who disagree with you Nazis?

    Of course it does. The GP's entire psychology is based up it. When you see a messed up situation you can do one of two things: 1) Separate yourself from it, 2) try to help. Trying to help is hard. You have to work with people already in the situation. You need to understand the issue, have a solution and then implement it. Separating yourself from the situation and blaming others is easy. And we have been teaching complaining as some sort of social good in the school system for the last 10 or 15 years. Turns out, when you teach people to complain instead of help, you end up with a situation where nobody helps, everyone complains about everything and things gets worse consistently. Sound familiar? The GP probably has probably never done anything remarkable their entire life but has been told consistently how great they are despite all evidence to the contrary. So someone else who actually does remarkable things must be bad because they disprove the GP's worldview.

    The real problem is that we see self-esteem as some sort of good by itself instead of something to be earned by mastering some other task or skill. This causes Trumpism (ignoring of experts) and this sort of post-modern anti-merit idea at the same time. Turns out, artificially created and unearned self-confidence is bad for kids and society. Who knew?...Probably every generation of parents before us

    --
    "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
  20. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by sfcat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Say you applied for a job and the employer threw away the applications of minorities...which has been known to happen and has been caught on camera, YOU just benefitted from racism. You didn't know it, but you did. And then if you say "I earned my sucess" you're wrong, you didn't earn it fairly. You didn't have to compete on a fair playing field. The deck was stacked in your favor, you were rolling attack rolls in the RPG of real-life with a D20 modified to roll 20's more often.

    Sure, guys like you believe that we live in a Meritocracy, it makes you feel better about your selfishness bigotry and racism: "Why those ghetto people are undeserving, they should do what I did. They're just lazy" But society as a whole was giving you XP boosts, extra loot, early access, and you didn't even know it.

    So your company will be hiring programmers to your team by lottery then? Let me know how that goes for you...

    --
    "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
  21. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For example, if an employer throws away the applications of minorities, then it's not a level playing field is it. And that HAS happened. Heck it's even been caught on camera. YOU just benefitted from racism. You didn't know it, but you did.

    You might think so at first, because hey, you got a job you might not have otherwise received, but in reality you haven't benefited. You now work at a company that is willing to reject hiring talented employees because of skin color or some other characteristic that isn't meaningful to performance. That means you're going to be working with less skillful co-workers and that the competition is going to have a leg up on the company you work for because they hire more skilled employees. I would not want to work at such a place or be dragged down with it. Would you?

    Sure, guys like you believe that we live in a Meritocracy, it makes you feel better about your selfishness, bigotry and racism: "Why those ghetto people are undeserving, they should do what I did. They're just lazy" But society as a whole was giving you XP boosts, extra loot, early access in the RPG of Life and you didn't even know it.

    Now it's your bigotry that's showing. I'd look very carefully at the attitudes that lead to people living in ghettos and keeping them there. You'll find that there are plenty of people who manage to escape the unfortunate environment or situation that they were born into and that the poor attitudes and life choices that lead to ghettos don't care whether you're black or white. I'm sure that you're familiar with people who are referred to as trailer park trash. A pejorative typically used for white people, but essentially it's just a way of saying white ghetto. Why did they fail to receive all of these benefits, boosts, etc. that you think everyone else received? Black or white, ghetto or tailer park, it doesn't matter. One set of beliefs will keep you trapped where you've started, the other will allow you to escape and ensure a better start for your own children.

    If you work hard and seek to create a world where merit is more important, then you will be more successful than when you started. Those who sit around blaming others for the world being unfair aren't going to improve and unfortunately they'll come to believe that their continued misery is only a manifestation of their beliefs and trap themselves further. Those people aren't undeserving, but they deserve exactly what they got. Perhaps you'll have an easier time in life because your parents worked hard to improve their own lives and by extension yours, but there's no shortages of cases where children squander all of the opportunity they're given and it amounts to nothing. Perhaps they're so wealthy that it's almost impossible for them to destroy the advantage that they had in their own lifetime, but given long enough to live and they would.

    America is built on people rising far above their birth conditions, and as a result is one of the most prosperous nations on the planet. We've limited our potential as a nation only to the extent that we've failed to act as a meritocracy. If a close family member of yours needed surgery, would you not try to find the most qualified doctor you possibly can to perform it? Or would you base your selection on whether or not that person comes from some group that you consider more deserving? The problem isn't that meritocracy is bad, it's that we don't have enough of it. Do you think fighting inequality with inequality will help anything?

  22. Re:You're strawmaning by sfcat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But those aren't what anyone thinks about when they hear the phrase "meritocracy", especially in a context critical of the concept.

    No, that's what you think about when you hear "meritocracy". The rest of us use the dictionary and realize that when you hear that word you think it means cronyism. Which is what you are railing about. But the rest of us think of meritocracy as hiring someone who can do the job and rewarding them when they do well.

    I will say that bad corporate management rarely rewarding merit is the real problem. To add insult to injury they then hide behind the word "meritocracy". That's why you are mad at this word.

    But you have to understand that the world runs in cycles and that hack they promoted over you then gets the VP in trouble because they did someone dumb or at least didn't do the smart thing the company needed them to do. Bad management decisions often come home to roost but it just takes time. There is a huge pile of failed companies in the past to prove that. The problem is a bit of survivor bias, you don't think or see those companies that failed due to bad management because they don't exist anymore and you may not have even heard of them. Running your company the way you ideas seem to argue for, would likely end in everyone losing because whether you like it or not, customers will reward merit if they can. And usually they can somehow...

    --
    "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
  23. Re:You're strawmaning by WaffleMonster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But those aren't what anyone thinks about when they hear the phrase "meritocracy", especially in a context critical of the concept.

    The context of TFA is pretty clear on what "meritocracy" is:

    "Meritocracy has become a leading social ideal. Politicians across the ideological spectrum continually return to the theme that the rewards of lifeâ"money, power, jobs, university admissionâ"should be distributed according to skill and effort. The most common metaphor is the âoeeven playing fieldâ upon which players can rise to the position that fits their merit. "

    "In the U.K., 84% of respondents to the 2009 British Social Attitudes survey stated that hard work is either âoeessentialâ or âoevery importantâ when it comes to getting ahead, and in 2016 the Brookings Institute found that 69% of Americans believe that people are rewarded for intelligence and skill. "

    Also pretty clear in context of TFA being against meritocracy is the equivalent of being FOR straight up socialism.

    What we're all thinking about are two things:

    Who is we? The term Meritocracy is obviously totally meaningless in the absence of specific context. The context TFA provided is clearly not the same as the one you are working under.

    a. People who coast to wealth on the backs of actual hard working folk. The Paris Hilton's the world. The Prosperity Gospel and the Divine Right of Kings.

    Nearly every rich person on earth has done exactly this. They have all extracted value from those hired to labor for their benefit. What specifically is the problem?

    b. People given a leg up in the world who act like they earned it all themselves. There's a phrase for this behavior: Pulling the ladder up behind you.

    LOL... I wrote this program all by myself.

    No no no! You didn't write the compiler or operating system stacks it has to call to operate. Nor have you designed or produced the hardware necessary for it to execute. You didn't develop the lithography devices making it possible to fabricate integrated circuits nor the enabling mathematics allowing for its development. You didn't mine raw materials nor develop processes for refining and processing them. You didn't develop the underlying models of governance that provided services necessary for any of these things to be developed.

    Who fucking cares? What difference does it make how much credit or deference someone feels like belching out so long as you are not making fraudulent claims? Credits for every conceivable thing go back to the beginning of civilization.

    You've set up your strawman (the hardworking PhD/repairman) and knocked him down, while completely ignoring people's real concerns over how the concept of meritocracy is abused to excuse wealth inequality, uphold a ruling class and punch down on the lower castes.

    Seriously TFA is a subjective house of mirrors. It asserts "grit" is a function of genetics and upbringing explicitly dismissing all personal endeavor as "luck".

    TFA also isn't so much about Meritocracy itself as it is a citation of a study of how internal perceptions of (nebulous) it as an ideal causes people to become full of themselves:

    "Yet Castilla and Benard found that, ironically, attempts to implement meritocracy leads to just the kinds of inequalities that it aims to eliminate. They suggest that this âoeparadox of meritocracyâ occurs because explicitly adopting meritocracy as a value convinces subjects of their own moral bona fides. Satisfied that they are just, they become less inclined to examine their own behavior for signs of prejudice."

    "However, in addition to legitimation, meritocracy also offers flattery. Where success is determined by merit, each win can be viewed as a reflection of oneâ(TM)s own virtue and worth. Meritocracy is the most self-congratulatory of distribution principles

  24. Re:Believing in meritocracy is bad for you by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem comes when we mis-measure merit. The CEO makes a pile of money and is a CEO, therefor we bump up his measure of "merit", the bright kid cleaning toilets and cleaning toilets, so we bump down his measure of "merit".

    Then, having thumbed all the scales to fit the outcome, we proudly proclaim that merit is a useful measure and that we are obviously a meritocracy. Then, based on the pre-fudged values of "merit" we perpetuate the situation. The CEO gets more chairs pulled out and more golden parachutes, the bright kid gets more toilets to clean followed by more pink slips.

    Occasionally (VERY occasionally), luck on the same level as winning the big lotto jackpot twice strikes and the toilet cleaner gets a real shot at the brass ring. Very occasionally, the CEO and his massive "merit" screw up so bad and so often that no amount of blinders, ear plugs and looking the other way can allow the board to ignore the lack of merit.

    Actual merit is a useful thing, but our means of measuring it produce a largely useless and often harmful metric.

  25. Re:Lots of lawyers, 1 Bill Gates. I was homeless by djinn6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So your theory that Gates' trillion dollar company is the result of having a successful parent doesn't quite work out, because 99.9999% of people who have successful parents do not build huge companies.

    Can you back up your number with facts?

    There are only 1.1 million lawyers in the US. So unless there's only one "huge company" in the US founded by a child of a lawyer, your number cannot be right.

    Moreover, founding one of the largest companies in the world is an unreasonable standard for success. There are many children of lawyers who have multi-million dollar businesses, most of whom you've never heard of. That's still a huge privilege compared to most other people.