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U.S. Students Have Achieved World Domination in Computer Science Skills -- For Now (ieee.org)
When it comes to computer science skills, U.S. students approaching graduation have a significant advantage over their peers in China, India, and Russia. Tekla Perry shares a report: That's the conclusion of a study published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. The study was put together by a global team of researchers led by Prashant Loyalka, an assistant professor at Stanford University. The team constructed a careful sampling mechanism to select senior (typically fourth year) computer science or equivalent students in each of the four countries, making sure that both the educational institutions and students enrolled at those schools were statistically representative of schools and computer science students throughout the respective nations. The sampling also ensured that study participants represented both elite and non-elite universities.
The final selection included 6847 students from the U.S., 678 from China, 364 from India, and 551 from Russia. Once the students were selected, the researchers then administered the Major Field Test in Computer Science, an exam that was developed by the U.S. Educational Testing Service and is regularly updated. The exam was translated for the students in China and Russia. When the researchers tabulated the results, the U.S. students came out ahead in every category. U.S. seniors outperformed their peers overall; students from elite U.S. schools outclassed their counterparts at the other countries' elite institutions; and the same was true for students at non-elite universities. (The differences among the scores of students in China, India, and Russia were not statistically significant, the researchers indicated.)
The final selection included 6847 students from the U.S., 678 from China, 364 from India, and 551 from Russia. Once the students were selected, the researchers then administered the Major Field Test in Computer Science, an exam that was developed by the U.S. Educational Testing Service and is regularly updated. The exam was translated for the students in China and Russia. When the researchers tabulated the results, the U.S. students came out ahead in every category. U.S. seniors outperformed their peers overall; students from elite U.S. schools outclassed their counterparts at the other countries' elite institutions; and the same was true for students at non-elite universities. (The differences among the scores of students in China, India, and Russia were not statistically significant, the researchers indicated.)
If US students have achieved world domination, why are there such a high demand for H1-B Visa's?
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Shouldn't they also test how everyone passes Russian, Indian and Chinese tests ?
Because maybe US program is aligned with US tests.
Something tells me a study put together by academics may not match real-world effectiveness. Skills related to teamwork social dynamics, understanding the business domain, and communication often have at least as big an impact as raw academic prowess, especially early in one's career where one has to pretty much shuddup and do what the boss asks.
Table-ized A.I.
The team constructed a careful sampling mechanism to select senior (typically fourth year) computer science or equivalent students in each of the four countries, ... The final selection included 6847 students from the U.S., 678 from China, 364 from India, and 551 from Russia.
By the typical fourth year (or equivalent) the US students were still in school while the Chinese students were hacking US companies, the Indian students were answering US help-desk calls and the Russian students were hacking US elections... Be sure to statistically adjust for that.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
It's good to be number one in something.
It is not just computer science.
America also won the International Math Olympiad, beating out the Chinese.
Here is a photo of the American team.
"But if HR can shop the world, the chance of a statistical fit goes up. Whether that's a rational way to pick a tech worker or not is moot, it's the way HR/recruiters typically think."
Not at all, those listings are in some cases designed to match exactly the person the manager wants to promote but they are required to post the position for "fair access" or more commonly to screen out U.S. Applicants. There is nothing saying the person they hire actually has to meet those requirements so they can screen out US applicants and then hire an H1B who doesn't meet them.
H1Bs are about dillute the labor pool in order to stagnate wages. There are other advantages, salary is usually part of it but a small part. The h1b is required to keep working there for a period before they can get another job. The H1B usually has no issues with infiltrating the position and then training replacements, developing automations, or assisting the company in preparing to outsource.
After many years of experience I'm the tech industry, I'm of the sound theory that the "combo matching" you refer to is used more as a way to indirectly justify the other real reasons you mentioned: salary, culture, ageism, or politics.
If I make a position nearly impossible to fill by never endingly increasing specificity of minimik requirements, I can explain away any candidate of my choosing. Now that I've established a way to exclude all candidates, I can look at the viable candidates who applied and discriminate however I choose: salary, age, sex, whatever. Should any sort of discrimination lawsuit arise itll be quite easy to justify why I hired the other person unless they match the specificity of the other candidate exactly (pretty impossible). I get to do all this while still advertising position openings through all the typical mediums without worry of legal discrimination liabilities.
I know this because at least two positions I've worked have used this very practice and explained to me this is quite normal procedure to guarentee my spot for the opening. Often if its political (like those cases) they'll even have you send a copy of your resume where they tailor the specificity off your resume.
The summary does say the exam was translated. There's a set of example questions for the exam available online from the group that creates the test: https://www.ets.org/Media/Tests/MFT/pdf/mft_samp_questions_compsci.pdf
In looking at some of the questions, it doesn't appear as though there should be any cultural barrier, unless they don't have stacks in Russia or recursion in China or some such nonsense. Maybe you could argue that the test is designed with the assumption that the ACM or IEEE curriculum guides are followed, but those aren't just some standard for or set by the U.S., though they may be more likely to follow it.
I won't assume that the U.S. has better students, or we'd be kicking ass in other fields as well, unless all of the really smart kids are going into CS, whereas this isn't the case in other countries. There's probably a very good explanation for the results, but I don't believe that it's a result of the test design. The U.S. is generally recognized as having some of the world's best universities. It's entirely possible that this is especially true of computer science. Maybe the standards are higher and the weaker students are culled before their fourth year. It could be a lot of things, but I doubt culture or language barrier is one of them.
I wouldn't put much stock into your common on hacking either. The reasons for that have more to do with economics and law enforcement than anything else. The authorities in Russia won't give a fuck if someone there is scamming wealthy Americans or Europeans. The same isn't true for people within those countries (and they're much easier to arrest if operating within their own country) and there's less financial incentive to try hacking people in a country a lot less well off than your own.
Bill, you gotta tell me if this is a joke. If it's real, my math professor wife is going to get a kick out of it.
However, she has said that in the past 2 years, she's seen an improvement in the quality of the non-Asian American students. They seem to be better prepared, but that's just anecdote. I was talking to a high-school teacher who said they're trying to teach math more like other places in the world. For example, instead of making Calculus a semester-long course, with Calc I, II, etc, they're teaching it more simply as a set of tools that you look up when you need them. So, they give it several weeks during other math courses and that's it. A lot of kids get hung up on Calculus and if they could just get through it and move on, they'd be better off.
You are welcome on my lawn.
No, it's the 11th. HOWEVER: the top 9 are all tiny Pacific island nations like Samoa or Tonga where they typically get very big, but because of the type of diet they still stay pretty healthy. Have you noticed how many NFL linemen are from Samoa or Tonga or Cook Islands? Guys that look like big fatsos but can do a standing jump onto a table and dunk a basketball and run a 40-yd dash in the 5's.
Here is the list of the most obese nations. You will see that among industrialized nations, United States is first. You could argue that Kuwait is fat because they're all rich royalty and probably just sit and stuff themselves all day. Unlike Americans, who are not rich royalty, and probably just sit and stuff themselves all day.
Here is the list for those of you who really want to deny that the US is very close to the fattest nation on earth.
http://worldpopulationreview.c...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Bill, you gotta tell me if this is a joke. If it's real, my math professor wife is going to get a kick out of it.
I don't know if the photo is legitimate or not. My daughter (half Asian, and very mathematically capable) forwarded it to me.
If a photo is funny enough, does it matter if it is true?
instead of making Calculus a semester-long course, with Calc I, II, etc, they're teaching it more simply as a set of tool
This is much better than the normal "theory first" method. When you start with limits and infinitesimals, the students get confused and lose interest, because they don't see where it is headed. It is also historically inaccurate, because that is NOT how calculus was developed. Both Newton and Leibniz developed calculus as a tool, and the rigorous theory didn't come until a century later.
Most students in a calculus class are going to be scientists and engineers, not mathematicians. They have no need to learn the theory. If they are really interested, they can learn it in a more advanced course, or from self-study.
Mathematicians often make poor math teachers.
Then why do we need all those highly skilled H-1Bs?? If US students are the most skilled in the world, then other countries should be begging for them. America should not be wanting for highly trained computer specialists.
In fact doesn't this undermine the whole H-1B concept?
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The CS dept of my local university is filled with folks on visas. They go to school while also working for a company that sponsored them. It lets the company do an end run around H1-B limits because they're not "work" visas they're "student" visas. The "students" already know the material (they were trained overseas) so they can keep up with a full time job + school.
It kinda sucks. It displaces an American student and a job...
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I'm not sure what year your photo is supposed to be from, but a photo of the actual U.S. team in the 2018 International Mathematical Olympiad, led by coach Po-Shen Loh, leads one to a similar conclusion.
https://www.cmu.edu/news/stori...
It's fake news. Here is an article with a better photo of the whole team: https://www.cmu.edu/news/stori...
As you can see, the team is more diverse than your image suggests.
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