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8chan Criticized By Its Founder, Blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs (marketwatch.com)
Several major ISPs in Australia temporarily blocked access to 8chan, along with "dozens" of web sites that hosted video of last week's mass shooting in Christchurch New Zealand, Ars Technica reports -- noting that the ISPs acted on their own in response to "community expectations."
Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reports that 8chan founder Fredrick Brennan (who "cut ties" with the site in December) is now criticizing 8chan moderators for their slowness in removing posts inciting violence, including last week's post from the Christchurch shooter Brenton Tarrant: Their reluctance to do so, along with the proliferation of posts on 8chan praising Tarrant's actions, have persuaded Brennan that the toxic, white-supremacist culture that lives on parts of the site could someday be linked to another mass shooting....
Brennan, 25 years old, expressed regret that the site had consumed so much of his life. "I didn't spend enough time making friends in real life," he said. High-school events and classes in upstate New York didn't matter to him at all. What mattered was the community of like-minded provocateurs, trolls, libertarians and conservative thinkers he discovered online as a boy and that formed his identity as a young man. "I just feel like I wasted too much time on this stuff," he said.
Washington Post reporter Drew Harwell (in a Post video) argues that 8chan "has grown from this central place for tech libertarians, trolls, just people looking to get a rise out of other people online, and it's really radicalized into this place of overt neo-Nazi, white supremacist, racist, sexist, anti-everything discourse...
"We haven't really reckoned with how to deal with the negative parts of easy and free and anonymous connectivity around the world, and there's no real good mechanism for solving a problem like that."
Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reports that 8chan founder Fredrick Brennan (who "cut ties" with the site in December) is now criticizing 8chan moderators for their slowness in removing posts inciting violence, including last week's post from the Christchurch shooter Brenton Tarrant: Their reluctance to do so, along with the proliferation of posts on 8chan praising Tarrant's actions, have persuaded Brennan that the toxic, white-supremacist culture that lives on parts of the site could someday be linked to another mass shooting....
Brennan, 25 years old, expressed regret that the site had consumed so much of his life. "I didn't spend enough time making friends in real life," he said. High-school events and classes in upstate New York didn't matter to him at all. What mattered was the community of like-minded provocateurs, trolls, libertarians and conservative thinkers he discovered online as a boy and that formed his identity as a young man. "I just feel like I wasted too much time on this stuff," he said.
Washington Post reporter Drew Harwell (in a Post video) argues that 8chan "has grown from this central place for tech libertarians, trolls, just people looking to get a rise out of other people online, and it's really radicalized into this place of overt neo-Nazi, white supremacist, racist, sexist, anti-everything discourse...
"We haven't really reckoned with how to deal with the negative parts of easy and free and anonymous connectivity around the world, and there's no real good mechanism for solving a problem like that."
It is the solution...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
...what's underground gets drudged back up into the open. In late 2014 discussions of run-of-the-mill internet drama regarding ideologues and he-said, she-said stories was unexpectedly banned from multiple websites, so it moved to 4chan. And then, in an unprecedented move, it was mass-banned from 4chan as well.
So, what happens then? The conversation doesn't stop; it moves to the venue which is least likely to inhibit it, which ended up being 8chan. The Streisand Effect was strong. As soon as it happened I knew that it'd be some kind of turning point.
All politics aside (jokes! I know that's impossible), the dynamics of crowds and movement on the internet seem to be something woefully misunderstood by the people who positioned themselves - through venture-capital funding and fuck-you money, I'd reckon - into power over moderation of the internet. Any long-time netizen could have predicted this would happen. Drama plays itself out in a matter of days or weeks if you don't take drastic steps to squelch it.
Silicon & Charybdis McLuhan Kildall Papert Kay
Quelle surprise. It's almost like mainstream media has an agenda to push or something.
Brennan/Hotwheels does not support or advocate censorship:
https://twitter.com/HW_BEAT_THAT/status/1108729831703769088
You 8chan edgelords who think death threats, racism, child porn, etc are the height of clever discourse can only blame yourselves for this. At some point, people will say, "enough" and just shut you the fuck down. So now you spoil things for the rest of us who believe in free speech.
Good job. You run with scissors, don't cry when someone gets their eye put out.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Brennan, 25 years old, expressed regret that the site had consumed so much of his life.
You're 25 ding-dong. You (probably) have many, many more years ahead ...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
The most Mordorish thing going on in NZ these days would probably be the mass indiscriminate killings. But no, the real tragedy here is that people who incite violence are being silenced.
What would we do without Kendall's superb sense of perspective and surface-level LoTR analogies?
Community once expected that black people sat in the back of the bus.
Community once expected that women did not get involved in politics.
As a company it is a perilous task to hinder people in what they want to do based on "community expectations". Especially when it is quite clear that expectations are not uniformly shared across the community, which is almost always true when it concerns which information should be available to the public.
Facebook alone has deleted 1.5 million uploads of this video in the fist 24 hours. It is their site, they get to decide what they want on it, but it cannot be denied this indicates people want to see this video.
So why then block access to the likes of liveleak, 4chan and 8chan, if not only to impose your will on others? The content on those sites was just as gruesome and appalling before, so why now? It smells like censorship and virtue signaling.
It is moral corruption of the worst kind, because it hides behind the facade of decency.
This is why free speech laws exist, not for speech you agree with. And this is why information carriers should be bound to free speech laws in the same way governments are.
They delete the copy/paste spam posts all the time now. I actually had my account suspended a number of years ago.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
The perp live-streamed the whole thing on Facebook, and yet FB has not been banned...
regular folk. Get a room full of 100 random people and I'd be surprised you could find one who's heard of 8chan before the shootings. If you did, it was probably because of that stunt THQ Nordic pulled with them (no such thing as bad advertising...).
And if I may, censorship has it's up side, especially when it's not done by the government. It makes content creators work harder to get their message out because they can't just rely on shock value. It discourages writers from relying on sex and violence and bigger and bigger explosions. The 70s and 80s were pretty well censored and they were a golden age for films (Star Wars, the Mel Brooks films, The God Father).
Take all the breaks off and you don't get a "free marketplace of ideas", you get a bevy of trolls and their shit posts. And as the discourse gets more and more toxic you get this.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Because using a tragedy to destroy the rights of everyone else in the country is completely on the up-and-up.
If you lose a right every time something horrible happens in the world, you will soon find yourself without any rights at all. Ask people who lived under communist regimes how life was.
I always wondered how such governments could be allowed to exist by the people. How did things get that way? How could the people let that happen? I'm seeing it now. It makes sense. The propaganda infiltrates their minds and convinces them to throw away their liberty in the name of false safety and, like cultists, attack anyone who doesn't see things the same way.
the only reason anyone can read your post but you is that /. is censoring the "Natalie Portman Hot Grits / Greased up Yoda Doll / GNAA" trolls. I can't be the only one old enough to remember the time before when /. was rendered useless by trolling efforts.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
free and anonymous connectivity is not the problem
When it comes to psychologically stable and educated individuals, this is correct. However, this is a significant contingent of humanity that is unstable and/or impressionable. With this segment of the population, free and anonymous connectivity can be weaponized to amplify their misinformation/disinformation. It can be used to rally people to focus their feelings of living an unfulfilling life on to a scapegoat.
Scapegoating has in fact been a highly successful engagement strategy for media outlets and politicians, which have in turn convinced many that education is elitist and to distrust experts thus further exacerbating the issue.
The question is really, how do we protect our society from those who would take advantage of these people?
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Is this all that happens - people inciting violence are being silenced? I hear Jordan Peterson's had his invitation of a visiting fellowship at Cambridge University rescinded." I have seen quite some videos of JP but none advised violence. OTOH when a group of white boys from a catholic school has been doxed and received death threats everybody (at least most of media and political class) found this jolly good..I wonder why the discrepancy?
There is more - every time a person starts shouting in German 'alles machbar' there is nothing to see - it is usually a deed by a single disturbed person etc. Here we do not even know for sure who this guy in NZ was - he used language that could be seen as left wing radical, certainly eco-fashists (this is what he called himself) are green and left in my country. Yet we all have to wear headscarf as a sign of solidarity? I do not have anything to do with this guy even if I am a white man. I do not subscribe to acts of senseless violence against other people. I may have a different view when it comes to politicians - after all attempt to kill Adolf is celebrated in some places. What I mean is this: we have a lot of lunatics on the right wing side of political spectrum. We have significantly bigger group of lunatics on the left side however. Plus the violence loving radicals of religion of peace variety do have significant support in their communities - nobody seems to be addressing this issue. Or rather - some people do and get banned. Quite frankly I do not care about chan or whatever the site in question is called. I think however that erosion of our free speech rights have to be discussed. While we are at it we shall also discuss the spread of Marxist ideology in politics, media and academia and we can also touch the problems that love of violence among certain religious community causes.
If you want to block all sites that incite violence go ahead and do Please be consistent while doing so!
First thing you learn about Trolls, they no nothing about the truth and care even less about it.
New Zealand is ranked higher than the USA for free speech, for freedom of the press, and democracy, honesty.
New Zealand told the world that it will not accept nuclear weapons or nuclear powered ships into its waters way back in the 1980s, and no government has been brave enough to try and change that law, because unlike the USA the government is actually accountable to the people, not the corporations.
The USA talks a big game, but when you look deeply you see its actually a shit hole, violent, dishonest, racist, scared.
It is the solution...
I reluctantly agree, but only to a point.
For an alcoholic, alcohol is not the solution. But neither is prohibition.
People who cloister themselves in the toxic world-views of sites like 8chan may be heavily conditioned against considering facts from other sites. Free and anonymous connectivity probably will not help such people. But I don't think ISPs banning 8chan will help either. Some other site will take its place, or the 8channer can switch ISPs.
Another topic is whether ISPs should be able to do this in the first place. I think they should not. IMHO, ISPs are common carriers. They provide a connection service, not a content service (like cable or satellite TV, that choose which content to provide.)
I think the solution is to teach young people how to spot false arguments and misinformation, as well as the history of the world, and the harm that extremist groups have caused.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Banning is effective. It makes it harder to draw new people in and radicalize them, because you can't just post a link. Of course they can get around the block with some work, but that barrier means there will be a lot less casual/blind clicks through to that content.
It censorship wasn't effective it wouldn't be so popular and people wouldn't get so upset about it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Strange how often that icon goes missing when it's leftist totalitarians doing the censoring.
This.
you're not seeing them because the Mods shut them down before you do. Both the human ones and the automated ones.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
New Zealand just demonstrated that they have no 2nd Amendment and no 1st Amendment...in the same week.
Don't worry, folks. Just because we have no historical proof an unrestricted legislative system can survive "emergency legislation" to restrict freedom in the long run doesn't mean we shouldn't try it yet again.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
It is the solution...
Anonymity did not solve any problem. If you can't put your name on it, it's not worth fighting for, and not worthy of respect.
(Said the AC, ironically.)
There are many problems that anonymity can help to solve. For example:
- it allows whistle-blowers to report crimes without fear of reprisal
- it can encourage candor when people express concerns or opinions
- it allows someone to share non-identifying personal information (health issues, etc.)
- and so on.
Of course, it's a two-sided coin. Anonymity has disadvantages. I leave a listing of them as an exercise. But it's not true that "Anonymity did not solve any problem."
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
But lets be real, 8chan was founded because 4chan wasn't "free" enough.
I mean the only things banned on 4chan are doxing, specific threats and CP, so what exactly do you expect 8chan to attract?
Two of those three are actually illegal. Doxxing, as long as you didn't participate in illegal activity to get the info, is not, though lousy behavior.
So...doxxing?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
people can say what they want! Kill it with fire!
Meanwhile, in the United States of America, a long-running experiment in having a heavily armed population is going just swimmingly...
http://www.centerforsecuritypo...
#notallmuslims, but a whole fuckin lot of 'em.
It is the solution...
I take it you don't browse at -1, or don't browse 8chan ... or 4chan ... any other examples of free anonymous forums you want to talk about? I mean they are all so lovely, filled with loving level headed people.
But it's antifa who are the dangerous ones, right?
Or may some of you will try to argue the neo-Nazi is somehow also an antifa.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Of course they don't have a 2nd or 1st Amendment. There is a world outside of the USA.
The idea that because you have guns you could stop a tyrannical government is so deluded.
Ya'll are loaded to the teeth and can't even get the government to prove you with decent health care.
You'll be blocked for certain comments. Certain common troll posts won't be allowed. I've tried to do a few parody troll posts where I'm calling out to old trolls and gotten blocked until I modified the post substantially and added a bit more content than just a call out to the old post.
I'm not sure, but I'm guessing they did it to prevent folks from wasting all their Mod Points on modding down trolls.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I take it you don't browse at -1
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
... for solving a problem like that.
It came to us from the movie War Games.
Joshua: "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Considering there are as many guns as people, it's astonishing how few gun crimes there are in the US...
It's effectiveness of censorship was never in doubt. The simple and necessary goal is to make it as difficult as possible.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Solution to what? This is not sufficient, the point of the article is that free and anonymous connectivity has caused a problem. Saying that the same thing which caused this problem "is the solution" is not a contradiction, or even an argument, and doesn't address anything that the article said.
I think the solution is to teach young people how to spot false arguments and misinformation, as well as the history of the world, and the harm that extremist groups have caused.
Unfortunately, academia - which is entrusted with education of the young - is infested with extremists. The bigotry in an average sociology department would not be out of place on 8chan, although the targets are different.
(I say this as an academic who has heard an officemate voice some appalling bigotry, including repeated explicit calls for discrimination, directed at "white males".)
the point of the article is that free and anonymous connectivity has caused a problem.
Yes, and that is bullshit. It has not caused a problem, except to the people who want to control communications and information. The rationale is simple to understand. So, leave it to them to make up stories to justify their existence, and sell their snake oil. The most important thing right now is to develop the tech that can route around all attempts at censorship instead of arguing about it. The tyrants can whine about our horrible freedom amongst themselves.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
for the love of god mod this man up - information isnt the weapon - it is the restriction of information that is the weapon
"His name was James Damore."
The rationale is simple to understand.
... And? What rational? Why has it not caused a problem? In what way are their conclusions bullshit? You continue to say nothing.
I'm not asking for a lot here, the "article" in this case is just a crappy little video. It's really not worth even this much attention, but your "+5 Insightful" response amounts to "Nuh-uh."
8ch is not purely about freedom of speech, that's only in aggregate. Neither all of 4chan or 8ch is /b/, a board owner can ban you on a whim.
I'd say the bigger freedom 8ch exemplifies is freedom of association. A freedom modern liberals find even more problematic than freedom of speech.
You cannot justify censorship.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”