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Hackers Hijacked ASUS Software Updates To Install Backdoors on Thousands of Computers (vice.com)

ASUS is believed to have pushed malware to hundreds of thousands of customers through its trusted automatic software update tool after attackers compromised the company's server and used it to push the malware to machines. From a report: Researchers at cybersecurity firm Kaspersky Lab say that ASUS, one of the world's largest computer makers, was used to unwittingly to install a malicious backdoor on thousands of its customers' computers last year after attackers compromised a server for the company's live software update tool. The malicious file was signed with legitimate ASUS digital certificates to make it appear to be an authentic software update from the company, Kaspersky Lab says. ASUS, a multi-billion dollar computer hardware company based in Taiwan that manufactures desktop computers, laptops, mobile phones, smart home systems, and other electronics, was pushing the backdoor to customers for at least five months last year before it was discovered, according to new research from the Moscow-based security firm.

The researchers estimate half a million Windows machines received the malicious backdoor through the ASUS update server, although the attackers appear to have been targeting only about 600 of those systems. The malware searched for targeted systems through their unique MAC addresses. Once on a system, if it found one of these targeted addresses, the malware reached out to a command-and-control server the attackers operated, which then installed additional malware on those machines. Kaspersky Lab said it uncovered the attack in January after adding a new supply-chain detection technology to its scanning tool to catch anomalous code fragments hidden in legitimate code or catch code that is hijacking normal operations on a machine. The company plans to release a full technical paper and presentation about the ASUS attack, which it has dubbed ShadowHammer, next month at its Security Analyst Summit in Singapore.

114 comments

  1. Step 1 by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 4, Funny

    Give ti a cool name:

    The company plans to release a full technical paper and presentation about the ASUS attack, which it has dubbed ShadowHammer, next month at its Security Analyst Summit in Singapore.

    Check.

    --
    I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
    1. Re:Step 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The TrojanASUS.

  2. Why? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Why don't they hire people who know what they are doing?

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Why? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Answer: Those people are expensive.

      Question: Why doesn't ASUS build their computers so the standard Microsoft Updates would fix most of the problems, and not deal with their own update tool.
      Answer: Because using certified parts is expensive too.

      So use cheap parts + cheap labor and sell their systems at market price = profit.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Question: Why doesn't ASUS build their computers so the standard Microsoft Updates would fix most of the problems, and not deal with their own update tool.
      Answer: Because using certified parts is expensive too.

      And because every company wants branding and analytics, and are more focused on marketing than security.

      I assure you, the marketing department had more input on this platform than the technical people.

      Based on the rest of consumer product security we see these days, any security was added as an afterthought or by sheer dumb luck.

    3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Question: Why doesn't ASUS build their computers so the standard Microsoft Updates would fix most of the problems, and not deal with their own update tool.

      Answer: Microsoft Updates create their own set of problems. Here are a few from the past six months...

      https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/01/31/1921211/many-windows-10-users-unable-to-connect-to-windows-update-service

      https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/01/10/1640232/windows-7-users-who-installed-january-update-report-network-issues-some-say-the-update-has-also-incorrectly-flagged-their-os-license-as-not-genuine

      https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/01/08/140220/windows-10-will-reserve-7gb-of-your-computers-storage-in-its-next-major-release-so-that-big-updates-dont-fail

      https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/11/26/2147225/latest-windows-10-update-breaks-windows-media-player-win32-apps-in-general

      https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/11/13/199211/microsoft-resumes-rollout-of-windows-10-version-1809-promises-quality-changes

      https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/10/22/1638257/microsofts-problem-isnt-how-often-it-updates-windows----its-how-it-develops-it

    4. Re:Why? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      If we update through MS Update, how do we get the telemetry from your computer?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Why? by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      Answer: Those people are expensive.

      Question: Why doesn't ASUS build their computers so the standard Microsoft Updates would fix most of the problems, and not deal with their own update tool. Answer: Because using certified parts is expensive too.

      So use cheap parts + cheap labor and sell their systems at market price = profit.

      That post is a microcosm of why I never buy Asus -> Mod this guy up.

    6. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What h/w supplier does this not apply to?

    7. Re:Why? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I am positive that you can and will provide us with a company that has a better security record where we should get our hardware instead from now on.

      Right?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Question: Why doesn't ASUS build their computers so the standard Microsoft Updates would fix most of the problems

      Maybe because Microsoft Updates introduce so many problems?

    9. Re:Why? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Because "managers" cannot do simple math. They do not understand that people who are cheaper per hour but produce a lot of problems are much more expensive than people who are more expensive per hour but produce far less problems. They also have no clue that writing software is anything but easy.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    10. Re: Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple ;)

    11. Re:Why? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Cost.
      Complexity to user.
      Complexity to support user.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    12. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Answer: Those people are expensive.

      Question: Why doesn't ASUS build their computers so the standard Microsoft Updates would fix most of the problems, and not deal with their own update tool. Answer: Because using certified parts is expensive too.

      So use cheap parts + cheap labor and sell their systems at market price = profit.

      That post is a microcosm of why I never buy Asus -> Mod this guy up.

      I usually buy Asus hardware these days, but never experience this sort of problem. The key difference: I don't use Windows. This implies that the problem is in the software stack, not in the hardware.

  3. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Learn to code

  4. Herro Wercom to Chinee Motherbode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Hackers" did this, did they?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder

  5. ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by ctilsie242 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now this is something scary. Any company that takes security seriously uses a HSM to ensure that at worst, bad guys have to compromise the HSM specifically to generate signatures.

    At the minimum, and this is a MS recommended practice, the cert signing computers should be air-gapped to require a physical presence to sign something. The fact that this isn't done for a critical hardware company is extremely worrisome.

    For something as critical as updates, it is actually shocking that a HSM isn't used. These are not expensive... YubiKey sells a HSM for $650.

    1. Re:ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      You *assume* they gave a fuck in the first place. No fucks given.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is a HSM?

    3. Re:ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hardware Security Module

    4. Re:ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      YubiKey does not sell HSMs. If you go with a cheap real HSM, you are paying at least $50'000.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by chrish · · Score: 1

      Actually, you're off by an order of magnitude; you can buy an HSM for $5000-ish.

      [Citation: I work with HSMs at the office.]

      --
      - chrish
    6. Re:ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Have the snake-oil vendors gotten into the HSM market after all? Care to share a reference to a product?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:ASUS doesn't use a HSM for their signing? by chrish · · Score: 1

      I don't think I can, sorry; nobody seems to publish their pricing, presumably because they want to harass you with sales goons. We're also under NDA.

      I can tell you that one vendor, who didn't give us special pricing on hardware, sold us an HSM for around $5k US. This is a PCI-e card model, not an appliance, so it's probably much cheaper... there's no intrusion detection or anything like you'd get with a 1U rack mount or something like that.

      --
      - chrish
  6. Don't get software from hardware vendors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    WTF, it's 2019. Doesn't everyone know by now, that you never, ever want to get your software from the same people you get your hardware from? It sucks that with phones, most of us still have little choice. But for desktops?! Preloaded software is so 1980s.

    1. Re:Don't get software from hardware vendors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you think everyone should be using 3rd party drivers & BIOS for every piece of hardware in their computer?

    2. Re:Don't get software from hardware vendors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think hes talking about branded software.

      Like, not drivers, firmware or bios

      But, fan monitors, temp monitors, power monitors, one click overclocking programs, cloud shit, auto updater of drivers. That kind of crap. If youre gonna overclock do it the old fashion way by understanding how it really works and doing it in the bios. Get drivers from the companys website instead of using a autoupdate tool. 'If it aint broke dont fix it' applies greatly to drivers. A driver isnt going to get you pwned.

      The only software I would use by the hardware manufacturer is software that enables the physical hardware to be used to its fullest eg mouse software that controls the extra buttons on a mouse

  7. So how do I tell if I've been infected? by the_skywise · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What files should I check for? How can I remove it myself? All this hue and outcry about hundreds of thousands of installed backdoors but Kapersky won't say what files to look for?

    1. Re:So how do I tell if I've been infected? by Merk42 · · Score: 5, Informative

      What files should I check for? How can I remove it myself? All this hue and outcry about hundreds of thousands of installed backdoors but Kapersky won't say what files to look for?

      https://shadowhammer.kaspersky...

    2. Re:So how do I tell if I've been infected? by the_skywise · · Score: 4, Informative

      Thanks - I did a search and this didn't turn up - just lots of articles re-reporting Vice' story here and saying Kapersky had no comment.
      Also interesting that this headline says "thousands", the article says hundreds of thousands and the Kapersky link says more than a million. :)

    3. Re:So how do I tell if I've been infected? by thomst · · Score: 2

      the_skywise inquired:

      What files should I check for? How can I remove it myself? All this hue and outcry about hundreds of thousands of installed backdoors but Kapersky won't say what files to look for?

      Kaspersky has made available a downloadable tool to determine whether the MAC address of your machine is on the list of addresses this malware targets:

      https://kas.pr/shadowhammer

      What you have to understand about Advanced Persistent Threat malware in general is that it is all designed to be exceedingly hard to detect, and as difficult as possible to remove, so there aren't any files you can "check for," nor is there a real possibility that you can remove it yourself.

      Although Kaspersky has attributed this particular piece of nastiness to a "hacker" (which is very probably a whole team of nation-state programmers, rather than a single individual) code-named BARIUM (the all-caps designator leads me to suspect that the name was bestowed by the NSA), who has been responsible for creating other, successful APT attacks in the past, the good news is that, although the original infection module was apparently very-widely-distributed (I'd go so far as to predict that every ASUS computer that was connected to the Internet prior to its discovery was infected), it was actually targeted at a specific set of around 600 MAC addresses. If your machine was not on that list, that piece of code might still be lurking on it somewhere, but it will not have downloaded and installed the really nasty back-door downloader and additional modules intended for the machines which it targeted.

      As the owner of an ASUS Zenbook, this is a threat I take seriously - but the fact that it seems to have actually been aimed at a specific set of presumably-high-value target machines indicates that mine was most probably not among them. (I'm just a novelist, without any connections to the intel community, or any community likely to be of interest to such a penetration campaign - and I sure as hell don't have enough money to make it worthwhile to target me for financial reasons!)

      We will learn more next month, when Kaspersky will release their full report on what it's calling ShadowHammer at an international security conference in Singapore. (That delay is likely to allow ASUS and/or Microsoft time to develop and distribute countermeasures, since the full report will, as is typical of Kaspersky's reports on APTs, undoubtedly include a sufficiently-detailed analysis of this malware to allow other bad actors to duplicate it, and/or create variants of it that could widen its reach to machines from other manufacturers.)

      Unless you're a spook or a diplomat who drives an ASUS machine, it's probably not a direct threat to you, personally, though ...

      --
      Check out my novel.
    4. Re:So how do I tell if I've been infected? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't just make the MAC list public? It is already compromised nevertheless.

      Why give Kaspersky more information?

    5. Re:So how do I tell if I've been infected? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What files should I check for? How can I remove it myself? All this hue and outcry about hundreds of thousands of installed backdoors but Kapersky won't say what files to look for?

      For to discover infection, be installing Kaspersky not-malware malware remover. Also opening all ports on laptop, router, and posting current IP to grobinyedishnaboorsh.co.uk.ru. Having good day.

    6. Re:So how do I tell if I've been infected? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://kas.pr/shadowhammer

      A zip file from "kas" in Puerto Rico. Yeah, I'm totally going to run whatever EXE is inside there. No worries, "thomst" on Slashdot says it's probably 100% legit.

  8. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Yes, but we designed RAD tools that convinced even the most illiterate dumbass that he can write code. Everyone can copy/paste from stackexchange and that's what doubles as "coding" today.

    I call it "total job security". Yes, I'm in IT security.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. Moscow-based? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I thought Kaspersky changed it's base of operations to Switzerland because of the recent problems with the US Government?

  10. Has anyone else's home networks been knocked out? by kushks · · Score: 2

    My primary device is an asus laptop I bought for school a few years ago, over the course of the past week or so my home network has been losing internet (no connection available across multiple devices, but the wifi is live). I've been going back and forth with my ISP about it, first replacing the modem my next step being to replace the router. Has anyone else with an asus device noticed issues like this? Could this be the issue? Ive even tried loading centos and tails just to get the same the "no internet connection available"

  11. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Leftist?

  12. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  13. Not a big a deal by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

    And, as usual, nothing much will happen. The vast majority just pay lip service to security, but don't really put their money where their mouth is. Why? Because it is not worth their while. It is far easier, and better for their bottom line, to talk big about security, than actually taking the necessary security steps. Because when the inevitable security "disaster" occurs, nothing much happens. And that is the case because it is not in the interest of any of the major players for anything much to happen. Which is why this really is a nonevent, and why ASUS will carry on selling their stuff pretty much as though nothing had happened, without having to compensate anyone for the damage inflicted by - in this case - ASUS's lackadaisical approach to security - in a few weeks time, somebody else will be in the hot seat anyway.

    Until security issues have serious repercussions (not Mickey Mouse ones) on those responsible, nothing will change.

  14. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The AC is referring to the people who prefer the use of the left hand for fun and profit. They've got mythical powers to confuse the rightist handshakers everywhere.

  15. Further evidence ASUS is all about the $'s. by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I forked over all the money about a year ago for an ASUS ROG Zephyrus gaming laptop, mainly because it was the first to market using the new nVidia standards that let a 1080 series video card run in a slimmer laptop while still getting adequate cooling.

    Well -- I woke up one morning to find my keyboard bulging upwards around the S, D and F keys.

    The battery in it blew up like a balloon, to the point it's deforming the keyboard on top of it. A quick search on the net reveals a bunch of complaints about the exact same issue, mostly on the ASUS forums. Not a single word from ASUS support acknowledging the problem. Several people got their batteries replaced under the 1 year factory warranty, but that required sending the whole machine in to be serviced (at your own expense for the postage) and long delays to get it back. Outside the warranty, they quoted people over $400!

    I was rather shocked at their unwillingness to try to proactively address what could really become a fire hazard.... but now, seeing this mis-use of their update service too? I'm convinced ASUS just wants to maximize profit margins while doing things the cheapest way possible. I think far less of the brand than I used to.

    1. Re:Further evidence ASUS is all about the $'s. by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 2

      Yeah, when they only did motherboards they had that great reputation. I've seen at least 4 out of 4 of their laptops over the last few years that were pretty bad on overheating and reliability. I wouldn't buy another ASUS laptop for gaming.

    2. Re:Further evidence ASUS is all about the $'s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I forked over all the money about a year ago for [something], mainly because it was the first to market using the [new hotness]

      Well there's your problem right there...

    3. Re:Further evidence ASUS is all about the $'s. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just that but wanting slim, cool and top of the range performance. He'll never get all 3 things together. Anycomputer maker that says that can achieve all 3 things atthe same time is selling snake oil

  16. Don't be raining on the clickbait parade now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's hackers that did done hacking with hacks!

  17. Re:Has anyone else's home networks been knocked ou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My primary device is an asus laptop I bought for school a few years ago, over the course of the past week or so my home network has been losing internet (no connection available across multiple devices, but the wifi is live). I've been going back and forth with my ISP about it, first replacing the modem my next step being to replace the router.
    Has anyone else with an asus device noticed issues like this? Could this be the issue? Ive even tried loading centos and tails just to get the same the "no internet connection available"

    I don't currently use asus devices, but it doesn't make sense for this to be your issue. Installing a backdoor on your Windows OS would not affect a TAILS bootup. In your case, I'd suspect the wifi adapter itself, first. Do you have a USB wifi you can plug in for testing? Or ethernet cable? When the internet connection goes out, can you still access your router?

  18. Re:Has anyone else's home networks been knocked ou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My primary device is an asus laptop I bought for school a few years ago, over the course of the past week or so my home network has been losing internet (no connection available across multiple devices, but the wifi is live). I've been going back and forth with my ISP about it, first replacing the modem my next step being to replace the router.
    Has anyone else with an asus device noticed issues like this? Could this be the issue? Ive even tried loading centos and tails just to get the same the "no internet connection available"

    Whoops, missed the "across multiple devices" part -- which would point more towards an issue with either router or modem...

  19. Just got new Asus Laptop .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First thing I did was pull the win10 HDD, put in a 500G EVO SSD and loaded Ubuntu.

    Serious question - am I safe or will my BIOS update get me the firmware?

    I only kept the Win10 HDD to use if any warranty support is needed. In a few years, I'll probably wipe it and put it into a USB enclosure to be used for a 3rd backup copy of things-that-would-end-my-marriage-if-lost files.

    1. Re:Just got new Asus Laptop .... by cdsparrow · · Score: 2

      Sounds like this is installing software through the windows asus software update program. Not to say that they couldn't have signed some bios files that were then installed, but if you aren't running the update tool in windows probably good.

      Some EFI stuff can actually update independently now, but would have to boot into EFI config and update firmware there pretty sure.

  20. Re:Has anyone else's home networks been knocked ou by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Most likely this has nothing to do with network connectivity issues. The malware took very great care to be invisible unless activated, and the server where the second payload should have come from has been down since at least November 2018. In other words, anything happening to you for the last 2 weeks is most likely not due to this.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  21. Stories show Microsoft's VERY poor management. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    The links above, live:

    Many Windows 10 Users Unable To Connect To Windows Update Service.

    Windows 7 Users Who Installed January Update Report Network Issues; Some Say the Update Has Also Incorrectly Flagged Their OS License as 'Not Genuine'.

    Windows 10 Will Reserve 7GB of Your Computer's Storage in its Next Major Release So That Big Updates Don't Fail.

    Latest Windows 10 Update Breaks Windows Media Player, Win32 Apps In General

    Microsoft Resumes Rollout of Windows 10 Version 1809, Promises Quality Changes.

    Microsoft's Problem Isn't How Often it Updates Windows -- It's How It Develops It.

    More links to stories showing that Microsoft is VERY poorly managed:

    Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC." (Aug. 4, 2015)

    Windows 10 shows you ads while you are trying to work. But, at least at present, you may be able to stop at least some of the advertising: 7 ways Windows 10 pushes ads at you, and how to stop them.

    Microsoft's Intolerable Windows 10 Aggression (May 27, 2016)

    Microsoft is infesting Windows 10 with annoying ads (March 17, 2017)

    Microsoft, stop sabotaging Windows 10. (March 21, 2017)

    Bill Gates still manages Microsoft: Two years ago, during a Jan. 17, 2017 discussion with Charlie Rose, Bill Gates said he spends "15 percent" of his time managing Microsoft. I interpreted that to mean that Gates is still extremely involved and very influential. Did Gates want the mess that is Windows 10?

    From the transcript at that Charlie Rose web page:

    08:42
    "Bill Gates: I'm there about 15 percent of the time. And I get to work just on the R and D part, brainstorming with people, thinking, OK, how are we going to take this artificial intelligence and make it understand, help you use your time better. It's a very exciting time in software. There's five companies that are, you know, in a really strong position. Microsoft is leading in some really cool stuff so --"

    It seems obvious that Bill Gates still has a huge amount of overall influence on the management of Microsoft, even if he mostly focuses on other subjects.

    1. Re:Stories show Microsoft's VERY poor management. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally, someone else who knows bill gates is still controlling microsoft.

      When microsoft wanted to buy slack for$8 billion, a BIG reason why they didnt do it was because bill gates said no. https://www.engropartners.com/articles/bill-gates-talked-microsoft-out-of-trying-to-buy-3-8-billion-slack-so-now-microsoft-is-trying-to-kill-it/

      People who say microsoft has moved on from its evil ways with bill gates gone are deluded. He never left and theyre still practicing EEE.

  22. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wtf? Why do you bring the left into your argument?

  23. NOT WITOU MY ANUS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No way, no way, not witou my anus.

  24. High level hacker by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Insightful
    After getting through ASUS server compromise, they just targeted 600 computers with hard coded MAC tables?

    It could be a high level state actor looking for high value targets.

    Or this is the test exploit verifying the ability for field testing. Subsequently they might have installed other back doors, and erased those operations from the update process. They forgot to clean up the original test code.

    Given the level of persistence these things can have, it would be really impossible to clean up the infected ASUS machines.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:High level hacker by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      Someone really wanted a longer term way in and to stay in with lower risk.
      The chart on Operation ShadowHammer https://securelist.com/operati... lists nations by (% by country) as
      Russia, Germany, France, Italy, the USA, Spain, Poland, the UK ...
      The page also has a MAC addresses online tool and an email if a MAC is detected.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:High level hacker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The chart on Operation ShadowHammer https://securelist.com/operati... [securelist.com] lists nations by (% by country)

      Right, but as Kaspersky mentions that chart reflects the distribution of only its users rather than the distribution of ASUS customers. As other ASUS customers check their devices, the country distribution may change.

  25. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Awesome!!!

  26. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by gweihir · · Score: 1

    There are software engineers. There are people that are well trained as engineers in the real of producing software and have been selected for talent and insight. There are also gifted amateurs that are almost as good. But these people are a small, small minority in the coder population.

    It is time to require that engineering degree and have the self-taught people come in and prove they can do as well. (Little known fact: You can get almost any academic degree without going to university by proving equivalent skills and a few years real-world experience in the field. At least in Europe you can.) And then degrade the rest to technicians and prevent them from designing anything and from working on software unsupervised by engineers. Have any company that does produce software and does not follow this be liable for any and all damage caused to an unlimited degree.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  27. So why update anything? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PC's, tablets and phones which have Never been updated have been working smoothly for many years at my house.

    We never update, and block most traffic at the router in and out.

    Can't get infected by anything if you don't update anything and use an ad-blocker.

    Seems like everyone else is doing it wrong.

    Don't be sheep. You do not have to put up with companies like microsoft which prey on you.

  28. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by gweihir · · Score: 2

    I am also in IT security and I cannot say I disagree. Although as part of my job I do security coding at full consulting rates. That is about 3 times what our customers pay for regular coders and it is eminently worth it for them. I mean, "senior web developers" with > 5 years of experience that do not even know what a HTTP request looks like? These people are worth worse than nothing. They would be very expensive if they were free. It is utterly pathetic. And this is from a Fortune-500 company that critically depends on its IT.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  29. Re: There are no "Software Engineers". by houghi · · Score: 1

    I agree, except for the political bullshit part.

    There is a reason why there are only amateurs in IT. For bridgebuildibg there is accountavility if you do it wrong. If you hired people who are unqualified, you are held accountable.

    All political parties have decided that such a thing is not needed in IT, so nno laws in that direction exist.

    Just only now have they started this in lefist Europe with GDPR and this kind of thing is not even really included.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  30. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There will always be a certain percentage of people in *any* population that have what it takes to be great programmers. You catch those stars by giving basic computer courses to everyone. Not everyone is suited of, course, but a basic course in computers (and online security, etc.) isn't a bad idea anyway.

  31. Stars are spotted because they shine on their own. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your logic is broken; if there's a star out there, you can see it. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT A STAR.

    Such people know who they are and what they want, and they find a way; by their very nature, they don't require hand-holding—they don't require special ignition by some intelligent designer.

    Indeed, such people are usually restrained by the kind of intervention you're proposing, because such intervention tends to be conventional and mundane, just like most of the students.

  32. You don't need "laws". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need contracts. "Law" by contracts is far superior to law by legislation.

    1. Re:You don't need "laws". by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually, you need laws. Otherwise,all liability will land on the developers while they get no authority to withhold sign-off until they're actually satisfied.

      At the same time, many of the security issues actually do exist in more conventional engineering fields. How many bridges do you suppose are resistant to multiple attempts to bring it down every day? If someone did get a key support to fail, by cutting it or blasting it, do you really think the designer would bear responsibility?

      Bank vaults are't graded on breakable/unbreakable. They're rated in hours and minutes because they can ALL be broken in to given sufficient time. Makers of cheapie door locks DO routinely make wild boasts about security that don't hold water at all.

      Major manufacturers of "security panels" produce units that all have the same key (on sale now on ebay) and are trivially hotwired with a paperclip.

      ALL security sucks donkey balls. It's just more apparent in software because the relatively rare non-dumb crooks don't have to actually travel to attack it and because they're safely tucked away in some other jurisdiction, they're rarely tracked down.

  33. Re: There are no "Software Engineers". by Type44Q · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    You're clearly a fucking douche but I'll bite: the physiological differences between Sub-Saharan Africans (i.e. pureblooded CroMag-type Homosapiens) and the rest of us [bastard Neanderthal halfbreeds] are so irrelevant that it's ridiculous: any statistically-noticeable differences in performance, physical or cognitive, are entirely explained by culture/upbringing/nutrition/etc.

  34. If you think that is scary... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start thinking about how the signing for Microsoft Windows updates, or Linux updates is handled.

    Hint: The day to day packages are NOT signed by an HSM release key, even if they are available for actual numerical releases. Update packages or dev packages however....

    And you only need to be infected once for it to persist, potentially forever.

  35. Re: There are no "Software Engineers". by Type44Q · · Score: 0

    Furthermore, this completely explains why yhe behavior of poor whites is usually indistinguishable from that of [poor] blacks.

  36. Can you say NSA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha, ha, ha! The National Security Administration has been exposed AGAIN!

  37. Automated updates only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article makes it sound like this only affected those who trust ASUS's automated updated. I despise these third-party automatic update utilities and always go looking for BIOS/driver updates myself every few months.

    So the question is - is this affecting *only* binaries that were pushed out through this automated system, or does it also affect other updates that have to be retrieved manually?

  38. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Yes. I know. I currently have the (questionable) pleasure of being in charge of IT security for such a company. What really ticks me off is when people get detailed information on what security flaws exist and they "fix" it in a way that betrays that they don't even remotely try to understand the underlying issue. Look, I don't even expect a web developer anymore to know what a HSTS header is. But that they can't even be assed to at least take a look at what it is when the pentesting team pretty much rubs their nose in it really pisses me off.

    As an example from a few years ago, the test reported a missing HSTS header. One should assume that it's an easy fix (provided that the certificates are ok, which they are). What did the geniuses do? Set a HSTS Header with a max-age of 0, of course. I have rarely seen a more blatant example of tick-box fixing than that. They very, very obviously did not even attempt to understand just what that effin' header is here for. The train of thought was very obviously a) Header is missing, b) we set the header somehow, preferably in a way that doesn't require me to test it (I still presume ignorance. It IS the lesser crime) c) I can close the fucking ticket.

    THIS pisses me off. I don't even expect programmers anymore to know shit about security. Even after weekly training courses. But what I still DO expect them is to think when implementing something. Else I can get cheaper code monkeys from India.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  39. Use a better contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's a straw man; the contract in your scenario just needs improvement—no need to wait for politicians to agree on legalese.

    1. Re:Use a better contract by sjames · · Score: 1

      "So quit my job and hold out until an employer is willing to sign a contract that no employer of software developers has signed before? And they'll do it because it's more expensive and gives them less control because they love those things?

      SUUUUUUUUUre.

  40. Censored comments in this thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are no "Software Engineers" [slashdot.org]:

    The computing industry is still firmly in the clutches of amateurs.

    A precocious 14-year-old won't ever be found designing a real-world bridge from his bedroom, but he might be found programming a computer; and, he might be found hacking into the servers that were set up by people who no better qualified than precious 12 year olds.

    Folks, despite what the leftist powers that be want you to believe, instructing computers what to do is difficult to do well.

    Re:There are no "Software Engineers". [slashdot.org]

    Leftist?

    TLDR; Coding camps and affirmative action for girls/minorities won't work.

    Coding well requires a certain degree of autistic analysisâ"a penchant of excruciating nuance, especially of an impersonal, technical nature.

    In practice, this means most females are unsuited to the task, because most females totally lack this personality; same goes for most "minorities" (who, on global terms, are actually enormous populations; white people comprise only 11% of the global population).

    Unfortunately, the leftists don't want people even suggesting these things.

    Re:There are no "Software Engineers". [slashdot.org]

    Meanwhile, where are the basketball camps for whites? How come the NBA doesn't institute some affirmative action for Whitey?

    Either diversity is our strength, or it ain't.

    I think it is our strength: Blacks are good for sports; whites are good for thinking.

    You're clearly a fucking douche but I'll bite: the physiological differences between Sub-Saharan Africans (i.e. pureblooded CroMag-type Homosapiens) and the rest of us [bastard Neanderthal halfbreeds] are so irrelevant that it's ridiculous: any statistically-noticeable differences in performance, physical or cognitive, are entirely explained by culture/upbringing/nutrition/etc.

    Furthermore, this completely explains why yhe behavior of poor whites is usually indistinguishable from that of [poor] blacks.

    When you normalize for IQ, the differences do go away.

    Poor whites and Poor blacks have the same Poor IQ.

    While higher IQ is not well correlated to "success" (after all, smart people may choose to live as childless hermits because they understand that nothing matters), it is absolutely established fact that low IQ predicts (to the point of causation) criminality and poverty.

    The ethnic difference is proportional: The proportion of blacks that is poor is larger than the proportion of whites that is poor (this is a fact); the proportion of blacks that have a low IQ is larger than the proportion of whites that have a low IQ (this is a fact). There is a causal relation between these facts (this point is the actual debate, but I say many research results prove it).

    Put another way: The average IQ of black people is significantly less than the average IQ of white people; the average black is dumber than the average white. This explains literally everythingâ"in the West, where massive Welfare States handle nutrition, the only part culture plays is that it might be tailored to the more intelligent average white, and thus the average black flounders inherently, and no amount of affirmative action or special instruction (beyond genetic manipulation) will fix that.

    When you understand this, you'll stop fucking around with code camps and socialist programs, because they WILL NOT WORK. All they do is sew the seeds of violent conflict, because they tell a horrible lie: The whites Have and the blacks Have Not only because Whitey is an evil asshole w

  41. I thought Kaspersky Lab had been banned already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought Kaspersky Lab had been banned already for making Merican AV companies look bad by actually finding exploits, hacks and security breaches and most importantly publishing details about so people can take steps to protect them selves against the likes of the NSA with the unlawful spying.

    1. Re:I thought Kaspersky Lab had been banned already by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Get the Kaspersky support needed at https://securelist.com/operati... for Operation ShadowHammer AC.
      Also has an email if MAC addresses are detected.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  42. Entitlement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What makes you so entitled to someone else's resources?

    1. Re:Entitlement by sjames · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about entitlement. With responsibility must come authority or the responsible party is merely a scapegoat.

      What's so entitled about not accepting the role of scapegoat?

    2. Re:Entitlement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing is wrong with not accepting that role. Maybe we agree.

      However it has seemed that you are implying the "solution" is to force certain people (e.g., "factory owners") to give you resources at the point of a gun (e.g., to employ you under certain legislated conditions).

    3. Re:Entitlement by sjames · · Score: 1

      Only if they expect me to bear responsibility as a PE would for a bridge (for example).

      If they want to keep the authority, they get to keep the responsibility.

  43. Re:Has anyone else's home networks been knocked ou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would you blame your laptop when the problem is occuring over multiple devices. Even if your laptop is messing with your router you can easily rule out the laptop by having it switched off.

  44. Contracts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such relationships can be handled by contracts; there is no reason for legislators to be involved.

    If you don't believe that your society's system of contract negotiation or dispute resolution is adequately sophisticated to handle the situation, then the correct response is to spend time thinking about how to make this system more robust; the wrong response is running to the men with guns, begging them to save you, because that is a devil's bargain.

    1. Re:Contracts by sjames · · Score: 1

      The law is the only reason PE's have final authority to sign off now and it's the only reason firms must hire them in spite of the expense.

      You DO realize that the only reason the civil courts have any authority is those same men with guns, don't you?

  45. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it is our strength: Blacks are good for sports; whites are good for thinking.

    As demonstrated by Trump vs Obama. One ran a country properly, the other disappeared for golf at every opportunity.

  46. Re: There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Furthermore, this completely explains why yhe behavior of poor whites is usually indistinguishable from that of [poor] blacks.

    Uhm, what? It most certainly does not. Not in any important way.

    According to FBI crime stats over 50% of all solved murder cases have a black male perpetrator. Blacks are about 13% of the US population. Black males are about 6.5%. That is just staggering. There is no shortage of poor whites.

  47. Re:Has anyone else's home networks been knocked ou by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would you blame your laptop when the problem is occuring over multiple devices. Even if your laptop is messing with your router you can easily rule out the laptop by having it switched off.

    Because a little basic reasoning might not be so effective at getting attention.

  48. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by gweihir · · Score: 1

    The max-age of zero is nice! "Zero-insight coding" is what I call that. I have seen such things as well.

    I do strongly recommend against the code monkeys from India though. They will make things even worse. All the competent people from India are not cheaper than western devs. The others are really, really bad. The made the all-time worst implementation of a feature (that still worked, somewhat) that I have seen: A piece of code that was used to remove duplicated from an SQL-query result. They used a manually coded bubble-sort, i.e. O(n^2) for that. In Java. In a situation where you could have a lot of results. The code was too slow (500ms mainframe limit) even with test data that was nowhere near production-sized. Of course, Java has better sorting in O(n log n). Of course Java has hash-tables which give you close to O(n) for this task. Of course, they could just have told the DB engine to remove the duplicates. Oh, and variable names were > 80 characters with sometimes only 1 char difference. And some other things. If found this while doing an interface review and I was not even looking at the code. But that double-loop just looked immediately wrong.

    Needless to say, the project failed. But here it comes: This was the second time this failed and the project "leader" that screwed the outsourcing up had already killed the first attempt by the same mistake. India both times. Each time this took something like 3 years. And he did not get fired the second time either. It is absolutely no surprise that with corporate culture being this bad (i.e. it matters who you are in bed with, not what you can and cannot do) things are completely messed up.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  49. A better system. Iteration, not Recursion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    * Laws as you describe them are a dumb man's game; rather than construct a system of well-defined interfaces for facilitating interaction among people, the powers-that-be just say "Fuck it! Do as your told!" That's an ancient and downright dumb approach that has many awful ramifications. We have to escape it.

    * Enforcing contracts is a service; there's no requirement that this service be provided by a monopoly, let alone a monopoly that grew from imposition rather than from providing a voluntary service.

    Contract negotiation and enforcement is an iterative process, not a recursive process; there is no infinite regression that needs to be solved by having The One True Authority.

    1. Re:A better system. Iteration, not Recursion. by sjames · · Score: 1

      Sorry, no. It's turtles all the way down.

      Consider, your rent-a-court Says you're right (SURPRISE!) and I should pay you $100. I say no. rent-a-court does what?

  50. re: snake oil by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Actually, not quite .... The whole innovative thing with the ROG Zephyrus was the idea the laptop would be slimmer, like a typical laptop, when you carry it around with the lid closed But when you open its lid, the bottom cover also lifts up in back, creating a bunch of extra airflow in and out of the case.

    It's kind of a smart concept, IMO. A lot of people were buying various laptop stands to tilt their laptops forward at an angle while using them anyway... This just does the same thing without needing any extra equipment, and makes it functional at the same time.

    (It's also smart enough so if you want to run it with the lid closed, using only an external monitor? It auto throttles the GPU so it won't overheat in that scenario.)

    Only real issue I have with it is the poor quality and odd-shaped battery they used. It's nearly impossible to locate replacements for it and who knows if the current versions are less likely to blow up?

  51. Re:There are no "Software Engineers". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did very poorly in my basic classes. I'm an inverted person. The more difficult a problem, the better I do at it. Many gifted people are inverted. Then there's the issue of creativity in software engineering. There is no generally accepted way to measure creativity, which is a core skill of problem solving. Essentially, there is no standardized or "basic" test to discover "great programmers" with a low false negative rate or false positive for that matter.