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Oculus VR Founder on Recently Unveiled Oculus Rift S: I Can't Use it, and Neither Can You. (palmerluckey.com)

Palmer Luckey, founder of Oculus VR and designer of the Oculus Rift, shares his thoughts on the recently unveiled Oculus Rift S: Rift S is very cool! It takes concepts that have been around for years and puts them into a fully functional product for the first time. Sure, sure, I see people complaining about how Rift S is worse than CV1 concerning audio quality, display characteristics, and ergonomics -- some of the tradeoffs are real, some are imaginary, and people should really wait for it to come out before passing final judgement. [...] My IPD (interpupillary distance, the distance between my eyes) is a hair under 70mm and slightly skewed to the right side of my face. One of my best friends has an IPD of 59mm. I don't know what your IPD is, but both of us were perfectly served by the IPD adjustment mechanism on Rift CV1, a mechanism that was an important part of our goal to be compatible with male and female users from 5th to 95th percentile. Anyone within the supported range (about 58mm to 72mm) got a perfect optical experience -- field curvature on the focal plane was matched, geometric distortion was properly corrected, world scale was at the right size, and pupil swim was more or less even.

Sharp imagery from edge to edge of your field of view was the norm. The small handful of people with an IPD outside that range would not get a perfect experience, but at least they would be in the right ballpark. IPD skews in different directions by gender, race, and age, but we managed to cover almost everyone, and we were proud of that. This is not the case with Rift S. Like Oculus Go, it uses two lenses that are set about 64mm apart, perfect for a perfectly average person. Everyone who fits Cinderella's shoe will get a perfect experience, anyone close will deal with minor eyestrain problems that impact their perception of VR at a mostly subconscious level. Everyone else is screwed, including me. Imagery is hard to fuse, details are blurry, distortion is wrong, mismatched pupil swim screws up VOR, and everything is at the wrong scale. "Software IPD adjustment" can solve that last bit, but not much else -- it adjusts a single variable that happens to be related to IPD, but is not comparable in any way to an actual IPD adjustment mechanism. This is the main reason I cannot use my Oculus Go, even after heavy modification on other fronts.

55 comments

  1. weren't we supposed to have 100 million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    VR headsets in use by now?

    https://slashdot.org/comments....

    better start thinking about what seasoning goes best with shorts

    1. Re:weren't we supposed to have 100 million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure there are some pre-seasoned edible shorts on Amazon.

    2. Re:weren't we supposed to have 100 million by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the best are from creimer's spring collection
      he wore them all winter on the bus
      not only do you get his yogurt fragrance but also he picks up all the odors from the previous commuter
      the pressure sucks it all in

    3. Re:weren't we supposed to have 100 million by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      With all the nerds out there purchasing multiple headsets there could actually be close to 100 million VR headsets in the wild.

      The only company to release actual sales numbers so far is Sony and they've sold 4.3 million PSVR headsets. PSVR certainly isn't great, either, so I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers have sold many more than that.

  2. Holy shit, autistic word salad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didnâ(TM)t read it, and neither did you.

    1. Re:Holy shit, autistic word salad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He never went to college, and it shows. I guess they can't all be Steve Jobs.

    2. Re:Holy shit, autistic word salad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I spent a few years in collage, and all it taught me was cut and paste.

    3. Re:Holy shit, autistic word salad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you did get the gist that the minimum viable VR product has the adjustable IPD as an Ursus arctos horribilis minimum?

  3. In before desperate victimgirl Kendall's cries.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "They see people almost being denied an oculus rift s because they once had a beer while in school, it's unfair!" (sobbing sounds)

  4. Have you forgotten how to use quotes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Oculus VR Founder on Recently Unveiled Oculus Rift S: I Can't Use it, and Neither Can You."

    This "headline" means that somebody (supposedly the article author) is telling the Oculus VR founder that "I Can't Use it, and Neither Can You". That's hardly what was intended. Learn basic English.

    (And this is ignoring the whole Confusing Issue of Typing Texts Like This...)

    1. Re:Have you forgotten how to use quotes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous Coward on Slashdot Editorial: Learn Basic English

      Is that hard to understand?

      No? Good. Now, take your own advice.

  5. A damned shame by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would really like to know the reasoning behind that decision. It's not like a lens-adjustment mechanism is going to be break the bank, though I suppose it might cut into profits a bit to maintain that psychologically magical "less than $400" price tag.

    I mean, you take a product that works perfectly for 90% of the population, and then make the next otherwise-upgraded version and make it only work properly for 1% of the population? While everybody else has to deal with degraded visual quality. That's pure stupidity, and Palmer speaking out would seem to suggest that it was a corporate decision that he strongly disagrees with as well.

    Reminds me of ergonomic chairs on planes, buses, etc. Without the ability to adjust the settings you end up with a chair that's quite comfortable for the few percent of the population that happens to be almost average-sized, while being a torture device for anyone sized substantially differently. What was wrong with a boring, flat chair? It's not perfect for anybody, but it's a huge improvement over improperly-sized ergonomics for almost everyone.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    1. Re:A damned shame by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Years ago I worked for a company that built embedded systems that ran for a few thousand dollars apiece, and there were arguments about changes in washers or screen padding that changed the price by maybe a dozen cents. Hardware designers and the people who approve the designs for manufacturing can be surprisingly pennywise and pound foolish.

      Though to be fair, there were other things that seemed tiny (like placement of a support or a cable length) but could produce multi-hundred dollar differences in manufacturing cost due to how it would change things like logistics or tooling, so sometimes stuff that seems like it should be cheap can make huge differences.

    2. Re:A damned shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You've already answered your own question, I am sure. Bean-counting,

      I'm quite sure that this decision has already lead to another HR decision too. When the CEO of a company that specializes in only one line of products cannot use the brand new "for-the-masses" product, and warns that many other people cannot then you know there is a problem.

      They should scrap this product and come back with v2 with the required adjustments. They're going to get owned in product return costs otherwise.

    3. Re:A damned shame by Immerman · · Score: 1

      He was the founder, but don't think he was ever CEO. He hired Brendan Iribe for the job in 2012, when his kickstarter exceeded $1million, and long before the buyout by Facebook. And Iribe stepped down last year when the CEO of Oculus position was replaced by a Facebook VP of VR

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    4. Re:A damned shame by Junta · · Score: 1

      . It's not like a lens-adjustment mechanism is going to be break the bank,

      Well there's the lense adjustment, but more critically those headsets have two smaller panels instead of one big panel, which is presumably more expensive than the single panel. Of course a Quest is going to have two panels and a 'flagship' mobile processor and still be under $400....

      At this point I'm ignoring Oculus software. Not only is it lockin, it is lockin to an ecosystem that *explicitly* doesn't want a high end device. If they don't want to do the better hardware, they should just open up support for industry headsets. Of course their problem there is complete lack of differentiation from Valve, but they are now only differentiated in bad ways.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    5. Re:A damned shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A friend of mine works in aerospace and he frequently complains about how manufacturing will regularly try to sneak components sourced from uncertified suppliers passed his department. We're talking saving a couple of bucks on multi-million dollar airplanes, with the added bonus that failures can be catastrophic.

    6. Re:A damned shame by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I go with VR should be fitted by an optometrist, zero adjustment in the device, the lenses et al, all ground and set by the manufacturer before it gets to you, just like any other specifically fit glasses. People might think that is all too expensive but, it means the glasses can be as compact and light as possible, all the bulk required for adjustment mechanisms gone. You pay once for a fitting done by a professional and those settings recorded and used next time. VR by default should also turn off motion control and simply focus on a better 3d experience. You could put the controller in the VR visual space so you can virtually see what it is doing and which buttons et al are active, set real low in the visual space.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    7. Re:A damned shame by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Utterly unworkable because most of these HMDs are going to be used by families.

    8. Re:A damned shame by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      You pay once for a fitting done by a professional and those settings recorded and s/"used next time"/lost/

      FTFY, HAND. Personally, I always offend these professionals by insisting on getting these settings (e.g. my eyeglass prescription) written down on their headed note paper (so I've got their phone number too) then keep them in the spectacle case with my old pair old specs - which is now my spare pair.

      To further annoy them, I use metal frames which I can re-glaze when I've got 2 spare pairs. Which means they can't sell me another pair of frames. (After about a decade, the hinges and springs wear out, but that's on the third glazing.)

      They tried to sell me a pair of prescription-lens diving goggles. I save nearly £200 on those - and got better goggles by going to a specialist.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    9. Re:A damned shame by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Excellent strategy - I've got nothing else to say about your post, but apparently it's time for my semi-annual dig at your sig:

      Birds are dinosaurs in exactly the same way that humans are small rodents. Both our family lines have gone though some pretty major changes in the last 66 million years, and it makes no sense to say that we are now what we were then. Heck, why stop at what we were a few tens of millions of years ago? By the same logic both humans, birds, and trees, etc. are all single-celled organisms from the primoridal ooze.

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      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    10. Re:A damned shame by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Inaccurate.
      Birds are dinosaurs in exactly the same way that rats are small rodents.
      Bird-like dinosaurs existed in the Cretaceous.
      Humans did not.
      Small rodents did.

    11. Re:A damned shame by Immerman · · Score: 1

      There were certainly similarities to modern birds, but they were decidedly NOT birds yet. The differences between them and modern birds are on the same order as the difference between those rodents and modern humans. Larger actually - humans are pretty much the same the exact same body plan as those rodents, just distorted. Birds evolved beaks, lost their teeth, developed hollow bones, and many more such drastic changes over the same time period. We both mostly lost our tails, so I think we can call that a draw.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    12. Re:A damned shame by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      No. That's simply patently wrong.
      Birds did evolve beaks, and lost their teeth. That's hardly a large-scale morphological difference.
      Some "dinosaurs" (vernacular, not scientific) aren't very closely related to birds at all. Some, like the Dromaeosauridae would be identified as a flightless bird, if you ignore the teeth. Some later ones weren't even flightless.
      Beyond that, the divergence between avians and theropods happened during the time when theropods were still extant. So morphologically modern birds coexisted with dinosaurs. Including the beaks.

    13. Re:A damned shame by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sure, it's only ever one very narrow family line that evolves into any particular descendant species. But Dromaeosauridae would hardly be considered a bird - it had teeth, no beak (it had a narrow snout), and no hollow bones, for starters. It was a feathered dinosaur of the branch from which birds probably evolved, but it wasn't especially similar to modern birds. The basic body layout was there, mostly, but most of the distinguishing features of birds had yet to evolve. It had feathers, but those appear to have evolved almost 200 million year ago - sauropods probably benefited from "fur" almost as much as mammals did.

      Now compare that to the difference between the pseudo-rodents of the time and modern mammals (humans included) Pretty much all our defining features were already present, only the morphology and more subtle details have changed.

      We could argue all day about exactly when the "magic threshold" between theropods and birds was crossed - but in the end it's a fairly arbitrary linguistic distinction. My point is that the actual biological differences between those late theropods and modern birds are far larger than the differences between the pseudo-rodents of the same period and modern mammals such as humans. And thus claiming "birds are dinosaurs", rather than dinosaur-descendants, is a much less well-founded claim than "mammals (humans included) are pseudo-rodents".

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  6. Number of variables by sgunhouse · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Any good pair of binoculars will have three adjustments - you can bend the hinge to adjust IPD, you can adjust focus, plus a diopter on one eyepiece (to adjust for your eyes focusing at different distances). But binoculars don't rest on your nose. If you broke your nose as a kid the goggles may not line up correctly. Since they expect you to wear your own glasses we could drop the focus and diopter, but that still leaves at least 3 adjustments.

  7. Rift S has a purpose, and it's feature parity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Certainly the non-adjustable IPD is giving some people headaches and is viewed as a step back. This was likely a necessary move on Oculus' part to achieve some level of fulfillment with the Oculus Go panel used in the Rift S.

    The decision to partner with Lenovo may in part have something to do with it's right to use a PSVR Halo-strap
    https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/30/18043112/sony-playstation-vr-lenovo-mirage-solo-daydream-vr-headset-license-patent-deal

    But the bigger question of why a Rift S, is likely answered by the up-coming inside-out Oculus Quest and achieving feature parity with the tracking system. CV-1 Rift is now 3 years old and Oculus want's studios to embrace Quest with the option of also reaching the Rift S market. By launching the Rift S this year alongside the Quest studios are encouraged to create content that reaches both.

    1. Re: Rift S has a purpose, and it's feature parity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rift S is just bad. Not that CV1 was good, but CV1 has specific goals to make it accessible.

      The Rift S is basically the equivalent of wearing another persons prescription glasses, and most of the shitty VR kit out there is like this. You need to be able to both adjust IPD and focus so that you do not need to have glasses on while wearing the HMD. Figuring out a way to do that automatically would increase VR adoption rates to a level where people might try it and not simply dismiss it as stupid as it is now.

  8. Race is a social construct, so is gender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    >IPD skews in different directions by gender, race, and age

    What does he mean is skews by gender and race? Everyone knows these are constructs made up by white christian males to oppress the world!

    1. Re: Race is a social construct, so is gender by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

      White Christian males? Sorry, buddy, but you're late to the party. Inclusion is all the rage, so let's blame all males instead (to be fair).

    2. Re:Race is a social construct, so is gender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it no surprise that the alt-right supporter Palmer Luckey would confused Gender and biological sex. Race is a social construct, but biology based on genetics however are not. Nobody seriously debates this. Polish people and German people are very biologically similar as a whole, but don't tell the Germans that in the early 1900s. "Race" and "Gender" here however are clearly being used colloquially to represent biological diversity. So you're not particularly funny, you're just "edgy."

    3. Re:Race is a social construct, so is gender by PPH · · Score: 2
      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Race is a social construct, so is gender by timeOday · · Score: 1
      Well, I doubt anybody would argue that interpupillary distance is a social construct, which is the actual issue. Can you imagine the interpupillary distance options on the Rift being labelled "30 year old white guy" or "60 year old latina"? No. Not (just) because of PC, but because interpupillary distance varies within any group defined on those constructs, so they aren't helpful.

      Usually information about group averages is not useful if you have direct information about the individual in question, yet our mind persists in biasing the specific information towards the (perceived) subpopulation norm anyways, and that's the problem.

    5. Re:Race is a social construct, so is gender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would explain a lot of things.

  9. gushathon blues by epine · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been reading about VR for years, and this is the first time I've ever read anything that cut to the chase. Awesome! Now I can die happy, in my own bed, surrounded by ordinary walls, covered with drab wallpaper.

    1. Re:gushathon blues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of you has to go (it's either you or the wallpaper).

  10. Oculus no longer relevant by WaffleMonster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Oculus has always been twofaced about specs. Palmer and crew went on and on about how important minspec was so people wouldn't get "sick" and end up hating VR.

    Yet the very first product Oculus did was 3DOF VR in form of a plastic box that clipped on to cell phones where any head translation results in instant nausea.

    Now after THREE YEARS they are releasing an inferior product lacking the very features they previously touted as necessary.

    HP Reverb is bare minimum of what Rift CV2 should have been and best of all it's not tied to FACEBOOK.

    I'm still waiting for Nvidia or someone to release a serious next gen VR HMD. What is needed is at least 32k display with eye tracking and custom foveated display driver to make using it feasible. Bonus points for light field / dynamic focus depth.

    It's pretty clear Oculus is out of the VR hardware business which is fine with me.

    1. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can choose Oculus Quest, that headset is relevant.
      I have had Oculus go for 6 months, and the experience is enough for me to buy the Oculus Quest.
      Just a tip fpr you.

    2. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worldwide, PlayStation VR is #1, Oculus is #2, and HTC Vive is #3.

      This new Rift S appears to have a number of design decisions that were made purely to pad profit levels, but they did a number of other things well. Specifically, they made it much more comfortable and they created a version of inside-out tracking that works very well. The LCD panel resolution is just okay and seems to be chosen for a combination of cost and the ability to have it work with 3-year-old graphics cards.

      The HP Reverb has much better visual clarity, but it requires a high-end graphics card and the controller tracking is problematic since it only has 2 front-facing cameras.

      It appears that Oculus is subsidizing the price of the Quest and *not* subsidizing the price of the Rift S. One reason could be that they expect to have a walled-garden for the Quest driving revenue, while games for the Rift are available from numerous stores that they don't control.

    3. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nvidia won't release a VR headset because they don't care about it. They care about AI.

    4. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Whatever happened to John Carmack? Didn't he get enslaved by Facebook?

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Nvidia won't release a VR headset because they don't care about it. They care about AI.

      https://research.nvidia.com/re...

    6. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by vadim_t · · Score: 1

      32K display!?

      A 4K display is 4X of 1080p pixels.

      8K is actually 2x2 4K displays, so 4X the amount of pixels again.

      So correspondingly, 16K is 4X 8K, and 32K is 4X 16K. You're asking for a display with a resolution of 530 million pixels. At 8 bit color, you need 1500 MB of memory just to buffer one single frame. And then to transfer 133 GB/s just to display at the Oculus' 90 FPS.

      Sure, nVidia is just a week from announcing that they've completely revolutionized several fields in one go.

    7. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I assume you're also waiting for Nvidia to release the super computer to go with this 32k helmet so it can have sufficient FPS to not make you evacuate contents of your stomach on your keyboard within second of putting the helmet on?

    8. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it say that Nvidia is releasing a VR headset in there somewhere? Only two of the articles are less than a year old.

    9. Re:Oculus no longer relevant by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Does it say that Nvidia is releasing a VR headset in there somewhere? Only two of the articles are less than a year old.

      You misunderstand.

      I said "I'm still waiting for Nvidia or someone to release a serious next gen VR HMD. "

      Parent AC replied "Nvidia won't release a VR headset because they don't care about it."

      I merely offered evidence to suggest NVidia DOES care about VR in order to refute parents assertion. Never said anything about NVidia actually bringing a product to market. I have no idea if they are even considering it. Simply expressed hope they or someone with comparable R&D resources would.

  11. I won't use it anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They crowd funded a product which was expected to have permanent Linux support but dropped Linux soon after. Then they sold out to Facebook who have already started spamming it.

    I think I'll be avoiding occulus anyway Tbh.

  12. actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some of the dumbest people I know have advanced degrees. I once had a Masters in math, yet could not compute a basic percentage. I've know people with degrees in stuff like Lit, whove not read most of the Classics (this is, admittedly, a problem with grads with more recent degrees).

    Drop the college degree snobbery.

    Abraham Lincoln lacked the degrees many today worship, yet he was a far more literate and well-read man than most Americans today. Lincoln had no speech writers and personally wrote and delivered some of the most elegant and famous addresses ever delivered.

    Many degrees are a waste of the sheepskin they're written on, and are little more than certifications that a student has properly regurgitated the drivel that an earlier student, who stayed on the campus until he became a professor, spewed.

    1. Re:actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, clearly, have a degree in English.

  13. whoops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do not have a Masters in math, I once has a co-worker with a Masters in math who couldn't compute percents. My fingers were not keeping up with my brain.

    1. Re:whoops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My fingers were not keeping up with my brain.

      That's what she said.

  14. Palmer Luckey dabbling with VR again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Palmer Luckey's days dabbling with VR are over and he has made his money and should stop wasting his time. He should focus on politics and other things he is probably better at.

  15. There goes any interest I had in it. by timrod · · Score: 1

    I own an HTC Vive, and while I really like the VR experience I don't exactly have space to dedicate a room to VR. I can still do standing/sitting games but I can't do roomscale at all. The Rift S actually was an exciting prospect to me because it purportedly had no need for external sensors.. but my IPD is definitely not in that golden "average" spectrum, so I guess I'll be sitting the Rift S out and hoping HTC comes out with something.

  16. Yawn, left-hander here. Yawning. by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    Subject pretty much says it all. Not being average is bad for your health.

    The furore about NASA not having enough medium-size space suits reflects on the same problem - many devices are only designed to fit a certain, small, part of the population.

    Not that it matters, but my IPD is 72 mm - as I've known from having set up hundreds of binocular microscopes over the years.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"