US Lawmakers Propose Allowing Prisons To Jam Signals From Smuggled Cellphones (apnews.com)

An anonymous reader quotes the Associated Press: Federal legislation proposed Thursday would give state prison officials the ability they have long sought to jam the signals of cellphones smuggled to inmates within their walls... The legislation could help provide a solution to a problem prison officials have said represents the top security threat to their institutions.

Corrections chiefs across the country have long argued for the ability to jam the signals, saying the phones -- smuggled into their institutions by the thousands, by visitors, errant employees, and even delivered by drone -- are dangerous because inmates use them to carry out crimes and plot violence both inside and outside prison.

Comments

Jam a cellphone up my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

and wiggle it around real good

Re:Jam a cellphone up my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

You are really dumb.
Just set it to vibrate.

Re: Jam a cellphone up my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy enough to fix. Go right into the cell an take the cell phone away.

Re: Jam a cellphone up my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

That phone will get shitty reception.

Re:Jam a cellphone up my ass

[Joce640k]

The phone is the easy part. Try getting the charger up there as well.

They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Prisons have no need for wifi or cell phone signals. Anything that isn't DOC approved should be blocked and it should have been done since this was possible. There is virtually zero downside here. Prisons are prisons.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is actually a terrible idea, but it takes the perspective of having been a felony inmate for a multiple-year bid.

What really happens with prisons is that there's a financial incentive to encourage recidivism. This means providing only enough services to receive state and federal money, but not enough to actually lower the recidivism far enough to put the prisons out of business.

If it weren't for an illegal cell phone, I would have been unable to keep my finances squared away and get out with a solid base of support, ready to work and meet my obligations--because I'd been meeting them all along. I experienced first-hand the difference that effective communication makes to staying out of the system: it's of paramount importance.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Before cell phones there were letters. Seemed to work fine. Also, there are approved phones available in every prison. I see no need for a prisoner to have a way to bypass prison restrictions on communication. In fact, I see a lot of downsides to it.

But, congratulations if you got your life together.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is quite expensive to jam a whole prison without service degradation outside the walls. You need many small jammers with only a few tens of mW output power, preferably reactive ones.

Some prisons here have it and although you see the signal with an sdr it doesn't seem to significantly impact anything outside the prison (though thankfully I don't know how well it works on the inside, maybe it doesn't do anything there either :) )

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

"If it weren't for an illegal cell phone, I would have been unable to keep my finances squared away" - 100% separate issue. Financial repercussions from confinement are not solved with illegal cell phones.

Your case does not make a mandate for all prisoners having access to illegal cell phones even if in your case as you claim it reduced your inclination. It's not a general rule, cell phones reducing recidivism.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Says the guy whose never interacted with the system. Lawyers will advise you to take care of your finances before incarceration because you generally can't do it while incarcerated. The explicitly prevent you from doing so. For those who might have child support or other legal obligations they don't disapear just because you have been incarcerated. When you don't pay that child support they will take away your passport and your drivers license which then makes it even more difficult to get a job. Not to mention most employers won't hire an ex-con to begin with. No. The system is designed to ensure the existence of an underclass for the benefit of a few. It's called the prison industrial complex. Slavery was not entirely abolished. There is an exception for prisoners and some states even rent out there prison labor. Until fairly recently that was the solution to the problem created by abolishing general slavery and unlike the prior system the new system didn't protect the prisoners. Those who worked the prisoners didn't care if they died so they'd overwork the prisoners. Unlike in the old system where a slave owner had an interest in that slave continuing to produce the rental of the prison population had no incentive to treat the prisoners adequately.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's very apparent from the statistics that prisoners with access to outside communications (and the more the better) are less likely to commit further crime upon release. Which is no surprise considering that those who have a place to stay after release and people to support them (which is a result of being in contact with family and friends while in prison) end up in a better position and more able to cope with a really bad situation. If you are on the street with no place to go and nobody whom will hire you and nobody to support you until you get on your feet and a system that ensures you can't get back up on your feet (particularly without money) then you going to commit crimes out of desperation. You might think that means steal, but it may not. It may even mean something as insignificant as driving without a license for a while. That sort of thing then can lead to arrests, court hearings, fines, and so on. All of which you probably don't have the cash for. Which can lead to a cycle of in-and-out of jail which further reduces any chance of getting a job. You can't even get a basic minimum wage job if your so unreliable due to your government-created circumstances.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[ShanghaiBill]

There is virtually zero downside here.

Actually, there is. The prisons make it difficult for inmates and families to use the legal phone system.

The charges are exorbitant, and the hours and rules are burdensome.

The phones are usually controlled by a for-profit contractor, looking to squeeze out every cent they can.

The contractors, prison system, and guards unions actually benefit from increased recidivism that is strongly correlated with weaker bonds between inmates and their families.

Prisons are prisons.

Most inmates will eventually be released. They may even be your neighbors someday. So social alienation may not be the best policy.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the incentives were correct, we would have very few prisoners. Spot on!

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

What statistics? Have you got actual sources?

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

" it's very apparent from the statistics that prisoners with access to outside communications (and the more the better) are less likely to commit further crime upon release" Oh? Then cite 5 comprehensive studies saying so.

You don't cite anything, yet you say it's "very apparent" - well, no. It isn't at all, that's a ridiculous assertion. Recidivism is a complex behavior based on a lot of things and cell phones sure as fuck don't stop all of that.

I agree it's tough to get back on your feet and the prisons systems for helping are not anywhere near adequate. Funding is required, programs are required. Personally I think a military tie-in program could do a lot.
There's a lot of overlap between prison program adherence and military protocol adherence. I'm biased but I think it could be a good fit. The program could then act as a recertification of employability for the individual.

"It may even mean something as insignificant as driving without a license for a while" - Again, if you're unable to get a license, cell phones don't change that.

"That sort of thing then can lead to arrests, court hearings, fines, and so on. All of which you probably don't have the cash for." - Don't do it. Take the bus. Walk. I don't drive when I'm not allowed, you shouldn't either. Basic.

Cell phones don't change that.

" You can't even get a basic minimum wage job if your so unreliable due to your government-created circumstances. "

= THAT SAYS TO ME YOU ARE FAILING TO TAKE ANY PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR SITUATION. That may or may not be realistic, but either way it's irresponsible of your own outcome.

You got yourself into prison by your actions and if it's "unfair" or "not your fault" that may well be, but you're there. You need to focus on following the rules and following the program. Not driving without a license.

There is no excuse, you need to do 100% of what is in your power to avoid getting in a position where you're breaking the law and can be sent back. That's on you. Society wants to help but ultimately will not succeed,
this is your responsibility even if it's "unfair" or difficult.

My life isn't always a cake walk either. It would be easier if I took illegal shortcuts. To allow yourself to do that is to willingly take a risk - and I don't. I'd rather starve a free man than eat prison food myself.

Is it always easy? No. Is it always ultimately your own responsibility? Yes. Can the government be relied upon to help? Not really, not without a funding mandate and attention paid.

NONE OF THIS is solved by allowing unsecured cell phone use in prison. You're entirely failing to make that case, and I call BS on your "apparent" statistics claiming cell phones reduce recidivism a la carte.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

While I'm glad you were able to make things work out well for yourself, I don't think having contraband phones in prison is good in the larger scheme of things.

You may have been among the 1% that used a contraband phone for positive purposes but the rest of the crew were mostly committing crimes with them, running gangs, giving orders for whatever, all sorts of things.

I'd be fine with blanking out the space inside prisons with cellphone jammers.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

A prison unit with 75 to 150 inmates will have maybe 5 phones available. Usually at any given time 1 to 3 of those phones will be damaged and repairs might take a month or two to get authorization because it's not a priority. Then you have the fact that inmates can't just use those phones whenever they want, they are given blocks of time during the day/evening that the phones are turned on. You might have phones available from 1pm until 8pm and everyone has to use the very few phones available during that time. Prisons have an internal inmate hierarchy and if you are way down the list the prisoners running the show may or may not let you use the phone.

When or if you do get to use the phone you better hope the person you are trying to call will be in their office and available to talk to you. If not there is no system for them to call you back on, those phones are outgoing calls only. You can't do many of those things through the mail because it would take a week to ask a question and get an answer, then your follow up question based on the first reply will take another week and cost money for postage. Friends can't handle your private business for you even if they wanted to. Most of the time family can't unless it's your spouse or you have given permission legally for another person to take care of things for you. That is pretty complicated and not free in any way.

Being in prison is the punishment. You are locked up for X months or years and can't leave. You are told when to go to bed and get up. You don't get to decide what you eat for your meals. You don't get to make any real decisions about your day to day life during the time you are imprisoned. That is the punishment handed down by the courts.

Prisoners should have access to prison installed land line phones when they need them to handle personal business. It should be monitored and recorded just like all communications in and out of the prison unless it's with a lawyer. But they should be able to handle their financial obligations and take care of the things they need to keep up on in order to have a chance at springing back to a normal crime free life after they are released. Anything else should qualify as cruel and unusual punishment. It's setting them up for failure and that is the opposite of what temporary incarceration is for. Also once a person serves their time, including parole, they should not have to tell potential employees or anyone else they were convicted of a crime. If they have paid their debt to society for their past criminal activity it shouldn't follow them around.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

First if all, it's a prison, not a resort. No cellphones. As for your financial status, who gives a shit. You are going to prison. Fuck your financial shit.

I have a better incentive to keep felons out of prison. My version of the three strikes and your out.

First time through we focus on rehabilitation. Classes where you are taught a skill, rehabbed to get you off drugs, basically what needs to be done for you to become a model citizen.

If you are locked up for a felony the second the second time we focus on punishment. Hard labor and corporal punishments, the works. Plus on release we take away your reproductive rights, snip snip. That way you won't breed another generation of criminals.

On the 3rd we deem you a lost cause and put you down. Hanging, gas chamber; all is good with me. No point is continuing to spend good money after bad.

That should provide some encouragement to stay out of prision.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[ShanghaiBill]

Oh? Then cite 5 comprehensive studies saying so.

Here you go:
1. Lowering recidivism through family communication
2. The family and recidivism
3. Family ties during imprisonment
4. The effect of family visits on inmates
5. Rethinking recidivism: A communication approach

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[ShanghaiBill]

You may have been among the 1% that used a contraband phone for positive purposes but the rest of the crew were mostly committing crimes with them

Not true. Most inmates use cell phones to keep in touch with their families and friends.

running gangs, giving orders for whatever, all sorts of things.

Do you really believe that 99% of prison inmates are Mafia kingpins and druglords?

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Smallpond]

Financial repercussions from confinement are not solved with illegal cell phones.

They are when the phone company charges $2.80/minute for collect calls. Oh, and the prison gets a cut, which is the real reason why they crack down on personal cell phones.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[cheekyboy]

cant wait for a riot and disaster , and no guards can use a phone to call for 911 help. HAAHHAHHA

besides 4G/5G will use such a wide range of freqs, you cant block them all.

some people are in prison due to technicalities or divorce payment issues or debt or simple pot possession.

Prisons are NOT prisons.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

All of the above, and if memory serves the law against cell phones in prisons was pushed by lobbyists for the companies that operate inmate phones and gouge inmates.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

You got yourself into prison by your actions and if it's "unfair" or "not your fault" that may well be, but you're there. You need to focus on following the rules and following the program. Not driving without a license.
There is no excuse, you need to do 100% of what is in your power to avoid getting in a position where you're breaking the law and can be sent back. That's on you. Society wants to help but ultimately will not succeed,
this is your responsibility even if it's "unfair" or difficult.

This is such a stupid set of statements. It clearly comes from a point of ignorance and lack of real world experience. Please go educate yourself on the basics.

Life isn't so easy for most as it is for you. Most people know life is "unfair" before they can speak words. You aren't educating anyone. And society does little to help. Else we would not ask if you have priors. Nor jail people for doing harmless crimes or not being rich enough to pay fines or the interest on such.

Your statements are not that far off from saying: too bad you aren't born with a silver spoon; just learn your place next to be hogs and deal with living in the mud.

BTW, some of the greatest and most distructive criminals in human history got there by doing everything in their power to avoid going to jail. Society has never benefitted from a no forgiveness or no tolerance stand point.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

F your financial shit?

So bankruptcy? That would be great if there weren't a whole TON of debt/bills/fees/fines that aren't cleared. Especially the stuff that came up around the legal matters of your incarceration.

Your post talks about a total overhaul of our justice system. Given the current system, the majority of inmates would happily agree with your idea. Good luck convincing all the folks in charge and making money that would lose most of what they have.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

All incarnation costs and inmate debts should be handled by tax payers within the jurisdiction of the broken laws.

Get that through and when people see the costs of keeping a safe, well oiled society, it will get optimized for the best bang for the buck. Which is very little incarceration and lots of rehabilitation.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[LynnwoodRooster]

So making phones more available to inmates would solve the issue. Do they need their own cellphone for whatever purposes they choose, to use whenever they want? Including organizing murders of prosecutors?

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

You may have been among the 1% that used a contraband phone for positive purposes but the rest of the crew were mostly committing crimes with them, running gangs, giving orders for whatever, all sorts of things.

Just think about that statement for a minute. Crime is a business intent on making money. So what you are implying is that we have the middle and upper management decision makers locked up. They aren't stocking illegal goods or hosting a expos in prison. With the vast majority of their reports and workers out in our society running around following orders to actually commit crimes!!

So our society is full of criminals and our protection services woefully inadequate!

Or more likely most inmates are people too whose life just doesn't end upon incarceration and they still have societal obligations that we hold them accountable for and haven't provided a way for them to meet the obligations we force on them?

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of good reasons to not allow unmonitored cell access in prison. While I'm against lobbyists and regulatory capture of course, and I'm 100% agreeing they're being gouged, this is not how to solve it.

They HAVE TO monitor them. If the prisons ran their own towers and only allowed cripple-able prison-issued phones and accomplished it that way, fine - but that's an investment of taxpayer money, realize.

The budgets are strained. There's no big public push to invest in better incarceration outcomes unfortunately. So they kick it off to for-profit gap fillers to gouge, which I agree is a mistake. Gouging inmates is unethical.

But you don't just "solve" that by allowing whatever goes, either, this is STILL a prison!

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Ogive17]

Guards likely have those things called radios for communication.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[ShanghaiBill]

So making phones more available to inmates would solve the issue.

Partially yes. Illegal cell phones are a bad solution to the problem of social alienation. But they are better than NO solution, and turning them off while the larger problems with our prisons haven't been fixed should NOT happen.

America's prison system is completely dysfunctional. We spend far more than any other country on prisons. Per capita, America imprisons more than four times as many people as China, Russia, or Iran. Yet we have far higher recidivism rates. Our prisons are factories for crime, and the people running them are actually incentivized to make them worse.

Even within the US there are dramatic differences, with the states spending the most having the worst outcomes. This cell phone jamming is just more knee jerk "get tough" nonsense that has been an unmitigated failure.

Let's fix the prison phone systems, so any prison who has not abused the privilege can have unlimited access to phones and internet. Once that is in place, sure, ban the cellphones.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Having deployed 11 times, I have no sympathy. You don't go to prison without legal representation. Every lawyer in the country knows what power of attorney is. It's trivial to get a specific power of attorney to handle finances. Not a big deal. I've done it dozens of times.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[SuricouRaven]

It depends on country, but in the US it's common practice for prisons to charge seriously excessive prices for even those basic services. Phone calls can cost a few dollars per minute, depending on prison.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Skilling, is that you?!

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Lesrahpem]

Before cell phones there were letters. Seemed to work fine. Also, there are approved phones available in every prison. I see no need for a prisoner to have a way to bypass prison restrictions on communication. In fact, I see a lot of downsides to it.

But, congratulations if you got your life together.

You have a point, letters do work fine for most things. However, the GP is also correct it might take the perspective of someone who has been an inmate to understand this issue. Let me try to elaborate on the real issues surrounding phones in prison.

The phones inmates have access to aren't very useful, and can actually be dangerous. In a typical situation, there may be 4 phones for 400 inmates. They're first-come, first-serve so there is usually a line or crowd around them. Other inmates can and will use things they overhear against you, so it's not safe to discuss anything you wouldn't feel comfortable having written on your shirt. This also means making a call at any specific time or date isn't practical, and calls are frequently cut short by others.

Like everything else in prison, this creates a black market. Groups will camp the phones and sell time-slots and privacy to other inmates. The amounts they charge can be exorbitant, and are far too expensive for an inmate with a regular prison job to afford. Just for example, I knew a guy who liked to call his wife and kids every day. He worked in the prison kitchen making $18 a month, but the phone crew charged him $1/minute to use the phone. He stole food and condiments from the kitchen and sold them to other inmates to pay for his phone use.

Most people who use a smuggled phone in prison aren't using them to commit or plot crimes. It's more often about having privacy communicating with family, friends, etc. I've known a few people who had legitimate businesses on the outside, and used a smuggled phone to continue running their business.

Rather than blocking phones it might make more sense to issue each inmate a phone the prison can monitor. The whole situation around the payphones they provide drives a lot of violence and crime simply because there aren't enough of the phones.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Do you really believe that 99% of prison inmates are Mafia kingpins and druglords?

No, I do not.

The point is that you don't have to be a kingpin to be part of the hustle.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Schools have no need for wifi or cell phone signals. Anything that isn't Board of Education approved should be blocked and it should have been done since this was possible. There is virtually zero downside here. Schools are schools.

Sadly, we often cater to spoiled little shits we shouldn't be catering to.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to be completely ignoring that financial matters affect more than the inmate. Do you actually think that, if the inmate wants to pay child support, or pay back money that they owe to lenders, etc. that those children and lenders should just be left high and dry? The inmate committed a crime, so you want to apply scorched earth collective punishment to anyone nearby. I assume you probably deserve it for knowing a criminal.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Before cell phones there were letters. Seemed to work fine. Also, there are approved phones available in every prison. I see no need for a prisoner to have a way to bypass prison restrictions on communication. In fact, I see a lot of downsides to it.

But, congratulations if you got your life together.

Google how difficult it is to make a phone call in prison. Now think about how hard it can be to get a bank or other institution to do something reasonable when they are being particularly thickheaded. These are unmixing things.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[rtb61]

You have been isolated from the rest of society because of your problematic behaviour and isolated to a controlled environment the purpose of which should be you rehabilitation. That isolation includes communications, you should not be able to communicate with anyone without their prior approval and the approval of correctional services and those communications should be monitored to ensure rehabilitation is occurring. You are in, what is meant to be, a school for delinquent adults, where you will be treated like an irresponsible child and taught to behave like a responsible adult, you have zero right to initiate communications without supervisions with those outside the correctional facility and they have every right to be protected from your communications, just as they are now protected from direct phsyical constant with your person.

Jamming would be bad because the correctional services facility has no right to interfere with communications outside of it walls. So prisons walls need to be rendered and in that render a wire mesh to disrupt all communications, no need for mobile in prison at all, land line serves fine and not privatised either but part of the rehabilitation process.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cell phones in prison are used to:

Look up other inmates, to see what was their crime

Track inmate transfers. They hunt inmates they want to harm/kill and then phone contacts in the destination institution to perform hits on inmates that were moved for their own safety (often there isn't enough room for all of these people to be in PC)

Hustle money from people. Plenty of inmates get into contact with fat women with poor self-esteem to romance them over the phone for green dots. Then they dump the women like a bad habit once out of prison, or once they run out of money

Conduct in-prison business, usually via green dots.

Waste time on the Internet. Plenty of inmates post to Facebook from their cells. A few get caught doing it. There are more than a few inmates that sell decoration services (usually using print mag pages wallpapering part of a cell) for posting selfies. Sometimes this is done to enhance the image, and sometimes this is done to obfuscate where the pic was taken

There are some inmates that use them as a way around the lousy prison phone system, but let's face it: the lousy prison phone system exists for a reason. The law has approved such things. If anyone really wanted inmates to have frequent, cheap phone time with people on the outside, they wouldn't set things up that way. Feel free to try to change that LEGALLY instead of just having inmates smuggle in phones, sold to them by corrupt guards.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Kjella]

You have a point, letters do work fine for most things. (...) Rather than blocking phones it might make more sense to issue each inmate a phone the prison can monitor. The whole situation around the payphones they provide drives a lot of violence and crime simply because there aren't enough of the phones.

Well, monitored voice calls means somebody has to be on call to monitor. You also need to deal with all the accents and lingo to know whether they're talking about something they shouldn't or if they're talking in code. Seems like email would be a much more optimal solution, technically you just run all incoming and outgoing mail through a review process. Skimming a text is a lot quicker than listening to a conversation, you can escalate funny stuff for more thorough review and the inmates can spend however long they want formulating it. Reverse the payment scale so they get the most money for reviewing it within X hours, otherwise they get less for providing sloppy service. It won't help the guy who wants to talk to his kids live, but it'd probably make using the phone less attractive.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll devils advocate on this idea for just a moment.

Jamming signals is not the "right" solution but it's the cheapest one, and if it's deployed to prisons, it then gets deployed to government offices and schools for the same reason, and then pretty soon you can only use your cell phone in less places than you can smoke.

The right solution is to require cell phone carriers to geofence the prison's so that they provide no coverage to the prison, and the prison provides it's own pico cell that covers just the prison, and all traffic is decrypted and monitored, or only authorized IMEI-ICCID pairs are allowed through (eg prison staff while on shift.) VPN software is blocked. But this is not a cheap solution. A cheaper solution is to just operate a pico cell on the known carriers ID's (AT&T/Verizon/T-Mobile/etc) that any data/cell phone access is blocked because it can't make contact with their carrier HLR.

The jammer solution isn't the right solution largely for a safety reasons and the slippery slope it creates.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[ixuzus]

Zero downside - really? I thought this was a tech site. Do we now have miracle jammers which stop at property boundaries now? I drive past a jail with a jammer fairly regularly and it will kill phone calls from a kilometre away. Beyond that there's an area where calls will get through but the signal is definitely degraded. It's a big problem when you have a minor accident and an older driver who is having bad chest pains. I had to flag someone down and ask them to drive up the road a little bit to call for an ambulance and then I had no idea whether they had bothered to make the call. I hate to think what it would be like with a severe accident where minutes counted.

Unless the jail is in the middle of nowhere jammers are a bad idea. You don't get to screw with people who aren't incarcerated because you can't handle your contraband problem. If they're smuggling phones in that's not all they can smuggle in.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Prisons are prisons.

ie: Hurt those people so I can feel better about my own shitty life.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not privatized....? Sweet summer child, who do you think wants to fund the equipment required to do this kind of jamming? Itâ(TM)s not the state.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/phones/

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

If by legal representation, you mean pleading guilty in 98% of cases without proper due process, then yes.

There is no way that out justice system is accurate 98% of the time.

Wake up, sheeple.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

A prison unit with 75 to 150 inmates will have maybe 5 phones available. Usually at any given time 1 to 3 of those phones will be damaged and repairs might take a month or two to get authorization because it's not a priority.

OK, it's either a highly profitable phone system in place that won't change because it's highly profitable, or it's not.

Which is it, because failing to repair the devices that allegedly rake in mountains of cash for the providers doesn't make financial sense, nor does it re-affirm the theory of its existence.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[c6gunner]

Groups will camp the phones and sell time-slots and privacy to other inmates. The amounts they charge can be exorbitant, and are far too expensive for an inmate with a regular prison job to afford. Just for example, I knew a guy who liked to call his wife and kids every day. He worked in the prison kitchen making $18 a month, but the phone crew charged him $1/minute to use the phone.

This isn't a phone issue; it's an extortion issue. Take away the phones completely and that same "crew" could just charge your buddy $50 a month for continuing to breathe, or $1 per meal for not having his food stolen, or whatever. The solution for this is not "hey just let everyone have phones"; the solution is for the prisons to do a better job of preventing that type of abuse.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Usually at any given time 1 to 3 of those phones will be damaged

Wonder why? If phones are so valuable to prisoners, how about not smashing them up. Oh right, there is a reason they are prisoners.

I don't have much sympathy - don't get into prison in the first place. If anything, the fact that you'll fail to maintain important contact is another reason why you don't want to go there. So don't take those chances that, while profitable in the short run might land you in prison in the longer run.

And while there are some somewhat nice guys in prison, there are plenty who will abuse the opportunities a phone gives. Such as maintaining criminal operations (as well as keeping normal affairs in order) or make nasty calls. They are already in prison, it can't get worse right?

If an 'inmate hierarchy' is a problem, and 'prisoners running things' is a problem - then work to solve those problems instead of asking for more phones. Because there doesn't have to be an inmate hierarchy, with inmates 'running things and thereby controlling access'. Seems like a fault in that prison system, and certainly not something you find everywhere. Bullies will always try to 'run things' and 'own places', but a prison don't need to let them do that. Some don't - go for a prison reform. You apparently have bigger problems than 'too few phones'

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't really have to jam. Have a base station in the prison. All phones in the prison will then prefer it over other more distant base stations. But this base station doesn't forward calls - it only pretends to maintain a cell. (or optionally, allow the call but with someone listening in as usual for prison phones.)

And it can notice if it accidentally picks up a phone outside the prison - because the protocol measures distance through delay & signal strength. The base station can then punt that phone to some other base station (which is part of the protocol), or service it in the usual manner.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because having the book thrown at you (if you weren't summarily executed by a police officer for being the wrong skin color) for minor possession is a brilliant idea.

Don't you get it? They just make up a laundry list of charges and force you to spend money you probably don't have to defend yourself because the public defenders are overworked, underpaid (capped maximum yearly billings to the state), and don't give a fuck.

I hope you land in prison. I guarantee you're committing felonies every single day. Just wait until you're the out group du jour.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

So here's a thing about payphones. The shitty ones installed in many prisons are extremely susceptible to water damage.

Water damage, you ask?

Yeah, water damage. Because people are germophobes in jail. Because the COs require that the phones be cleaned daily. And guess what? The turnover ensures that the new guy will spray cleaner into the fucking earpiece and then the phone is out for a month until the repair guy comes by with a new board.

This was the #1 cause of dead phones. Not beating them like you'd suggest--because that would actually piss off other inmates and they'd be immediately aware of who did it.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

The COs aren't going to prevent that kind of abuse. They sponsor and encourage it. My experience was that they directed the most egregious illegal activities in prison.

Even on a more general daily level, there's an unspoken expectation that inmates will police themselves (despite that actually being against the rules-as-written). When inmates fail to police themselves, everyone gets punished because the COs have to do their job for a change. When inmates police themselves, people get beaten up, extorted, sent to the hole, have their property stolen (oh yeah, if you go to the hole, everyone will raid your property as fast as possible to get it before the COs collect it up for you), and so on. That's if you don't die.

You have zero experience with the practical day-to-day reality of continuing to breathe and function in a prison environment, and it shows.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

When you say "crew" I assume that means you have no idea who is charging the $1/minute....

This isn't a prison gang, it's the DOC/phone company.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Says the guy whose never interacted with the system. Lawyers will advise you to take care of your finances before incarceration because you generally can't do it while incarcerated. The explicitly prevent you from doing so. For those who might have child support or other legal obligations they don't disapear just because you have been incarcerated. When you don't pay that child support they will take away your passport and your drivers license which then makes it even more difficult to get a job. Not to mention most employers won't hire an ex-con to begin with. No. The system is designed to ensure the existence of an underclass for the benefit of a few. It's called the prison industrial complex. Slavery was not entirely abolished. There is an exception for prisoners and some states even rent out there prison labor. Until fairly recently that was the solution to the problem created by abolishing general slavery and unlike the prior system the new system didn't protect the prisoners. Those who worked the prisoners didn't care if they died so they'd overwork the prisoners. Unlike in the old system where a slave owner had an interest in that slave continuing to produce the rental of the prison population had no incentive to treat the prisoners adequately.

So... not only are people in prison bad criminals because they got caught, but they're also bad because they failed to stash away the proceeds of their crimes so they'd have something to start with when they are released?

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

A prison unit with 75 to 150 inmates will have maybe 5 phones available. Usually at any given time 1 to 3 of those phones will be damaged and repairs might take a month or two to get authorization because it's not a priority. Then you have the fact that inmates can't just use those phones whenever they want, they are given blocks of time during the day/evening that the phones are turned on. You might have phones available from 1pm until 8pm and everyone has to use the very few phones available during that time. Prisons have an internal inmate hierarchy and if you are way down the list the prisoners running the show may or may not let you use the phone.

All this is easily fixable!

There can't be much drive-by vandalism inside a prison, so just monitor the phones with cameras and bill the persons breaking the phones for the damage. Make it a priority repair and bill the vandal for the deluxe repair. That'll stop the vandalism pretty quick.

Keep the phones turned on 24/7 and make sure everybody gets access. Squash the hierarchy and put anyone thinking they're somebody special in solitary for a few months. Turn off the light or keep it on at all times, cut back on food etc. Absolutely no recreation time or communication with guards, other inmates or the outside. If that doesn't break the morons thinking they have special rights, just make it even harsher. Repeat with any 'second in command' that moves up and so on. Put gang kingpins nude in rubber cells together and let them beat each other up by hand 24/7. Yes, it is possible to wipe any and all hierarchy out, including gang divides. Just turn the thumb screws even more if necessary.

The inmates that play by the rules and behave properly gets benefits and privileges.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[c6gunner]

You seem to have zero experience with reading comprehension; I was commenting on how to fix the issue which he outlined, not explaining "how things are".

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Lesrahpem]

When you say "crew" I assume that means you have no idea who is charging the $1/minute....

This isn't a prison gang, it's the DOC/phone company.

I'm not sure what you mean. I say crew because they are a group of inmates, who I wouldn't necessarily term a gang in a real sense. Sometimes it's a gang, other times it's just a group of people who have bunks near the phones.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Had the thought of âNOTâ(TM) committing a crime ever occurred to you?

And, if you do commit a crime, , hire an attorney or give someone you trust power of attorney to carry out your âoelegalâ affairs in the event you are released someday.

There is no reason that prisoners need cell phones or WiFi while serving their time - it isnâ(TM)t Panera Bread, Starbucks, or a resort.

The entire area within a mile around the facility should be jammed and a no-fly zone.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Lesrahpem]

Groups will camp the phones and sell time-slots and privacy to other inmates. The amounts they charge can be exorbitant, and are far too expensive for an inmate with a regular prison job to afford. Just for example, I knew a guy who liked to call his wife and kids every day. He worked in the prison kitchen making $18 a month, but the phone crew charged him $1/minute to use the phone.

This isn't a phone issue; it's an extortion issue. Take away the phones completely and that same "crew" could just charge your buddy $50 a month for continuing to breathe, or $1 per meal for not having his food stolen, or whatever. The solution for this is not "hey just let everyone have phones"; the solution is for the prisons to do a better job of preventing that type of abuse.

You're absolutely right, it's an extortion issue and the phones are just one aspect of it. Let me explain something.

Many things in prison are "official" on paper but not actually enforced. The guards are supposed to ensure everyone has equal access to the phones, as well as the laundry and everything else. They are supposed to stop extortion and things like that. However, it's kind of an unspoken rule that inmates are supposed to police themselves. The guards typically only get involved when that fails, and then everyone is in trouble. This is where many of these "crews" come from.

This double standard is where a lot of these crews come from. Many of them are malicious and dangerous, while others are more like defacto peacekeepers.

Typical example is the laundry. In the institute where I served my time there were washers and dryers inmates are supposed to have free access to. The inmates all encountered problems with this (in my block). The laundry room was a frequent place of violence and theft, among other things. The guards solved it by banning everyone from doing laundry each time anything happened in there.

Some guys got together and proposed the idea of a laundry crew. The idea was we would all agree to let these 4 guys into the laundry room, and we'd just pay them to do our laundry. It worked pretty well and more or less solved the problem, except for people who couldn't afford it. The guards knew about this, and even though is was totally against the prison's rules, they allowed and encouraged it.

What this does is encourage criminal behavior and thinking, as well as instill a distrust of authority and the law. Is that really the kind of environment we think, as a society, will encourage these people to re-enter society as productive, law abiding citizens?

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Ronin Developer]

The military makes sure you have your affairs in order before you deploy. In the Navy, any lieutenant commander or above is a notary. They have notaries on base to help you get your will, post, etc, squared away.

Prisons could have similar services and programs in place.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no, no, you don't want 24/7 access.

Pro-tip: prisons are LOUD. And you can't get away from noisy assholes who already leave their TV on after quiet hours (at full volume). The COs don't give a fuck.

You don't want to add to the range of psychological harassment for those trying to just do their bid. You know what's fucking great? They don't even sell earplugs on commissary, so you gotta buy them from a guy in the shop on the black market. Or stuff rolled up toilet paper in your ears. Or crank up your radio, but that's not great for sleeping. None of them work super well.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[lessthan]

Skipped right over the issues and went with condemnation. I'm sure that helps the situation.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

So while you may have been perfectly above board in "keeping your finances straight", for many in prison it means "continuing to run the criminal enterprise" while at the vacation prison.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point. I'd hate to think of someone in a boat not being able to call 911 because their friend is drowning a bit too close to Rikers.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those phones are busy on every available minute, but brain-damaged policies and inmates (germophobes) result in them frequently being out of commission. Spraying the earpiece or buttons with cleaner had about an 80% success rate in destroying that phone.

My cellphone was a much better way to read the site. I actually had it printed out for me for a while.

Yes, I still read Slashdot in prison. Better news than I'd get otherwise.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Explain to me how you plan on fixing a system rigged with financial incentives to do the exact opposite of what you propose?

The abuse starts at the top, with the people we pay to watch others. Moreover, if you're an inmate, they control your ability to report violations of the rules. They are aggressor, officer, prosecutor, jury, and judge all rolled into one?

How exactly do you report a CO stealing shit when they can simply refuse to give you a form for it? When they can take away your phone arbitrarily, throw you in the hole, deprive you of any income to buy stamps, paper, and pen?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

You don't know shit, because you haven't been there. I have, so fuck off with your head-in-the-sand idealism.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just you wait till all this UNBRIDLED POWER SURVEILLANCE SPYING CONTROL TAXATION FORCE you keep giving to these fucks turns against you, arbitrarily or not.

You'll FUCKING WISH you weren't such a GODDAMNED DISGUSTING STATIST and APOLOGIST for SAME when you're ROTTING in the DEEP DARK HOLE of YOUR OWN CREATION.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

The system DOES NOT want people out. The Government wants people IN. So that it can CONTINUE its POWER and CONTROL and TAXING over people... and now SPYING and CENSORSHIP as well.

All analysis in, people are not in control anymore, it's time for another revolution.
This time, do not replace it with anything, as NO system of Government has ever worked.
Go with the Voluntaryism of Self and Non Government instead.
Don't worry... thieves, murderers, roads, defense will all be managed just fine therein, by each of you, together.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[MooseTick]

So if I'm up for my 3rd strike and have no options, I might as well go balls out. No need to reserve myself and not kill cops/children/little old ladies/Chihuahuas/etc. If I get caught I'm getting executed, so no reason to restrain myself.

You know 30% of jobs now require some state "certification" to perform (https://capx.co/5-jobs-that-inexplicably-require-a-licence-in-the-us/). You have to get a license to sell used cars, cut hair, teach, serve alcohol, sell real estate, drive a school bus, and even apply shampoo in 5 states. Guess who is almost always blocked to "protect the public"? With that the case, it shouldn't be a surprise that someone that got caught doing something stupid at 19 can never recover and be a productive member of society. They are being set up to fail over and over.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[DaveV1.0]

Bullshit.

You were incarcerated as punishment. That means you look access to things like cell phones. Cell phones are used to continue criminal activity from within jail and prison.

If you wanted to keep your finances squared away, you should have thought of that before your felony. If you had the ability to take care of your finances without earning a living, then you should have provided someone a power of attorney or hired an accountant to take care of it for you.

By the way, what exactly did you do to keep your finances squared away? Were you continuing to engage in criminal activity to put money in the bank to pay bills?

All you have done is convince me you should be back behind bars because you broke the law while you were being punished for breaking the law.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[pnutjam]

I don't have an accountant, planner, or lawyer out of prison and neither does the majority, especially poor majority, in America.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention the fact that they charge you for the phone time, which is limited. You can work a "job" for $0.30 an hour, if you are lucky, but then you spend it on the requisite $3 per day fee (for the privilege of being incarcerated) along with phone charges and anything else they can bilk you for.

I was fortunate enough to not have this experience first hand, but I have a friend that wasn't quite as lucky. Prisons are absolutely for the financial benefit of the operators, whether the money comes from the government or the inmates.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

So if I'm up for my 3rd strike and have no options, I might as well go balls out. No need to reserve myself and not kill cops/children/little old ladies/Chihuahuas/etc. If I get caught I'm getting executed, so no reason to restrain myself.

You know 30% of jobs now require some state "certification" to perform (https://capx.co/5-jobs-that-inexplicably-require-a-licence-in-the-us/). You have to get a license to sell used cars, cut hair, teach, serve alcohol, sell real estate, drive a school bus, and even apply shampoo in 5 states. Guess who is almost always blocked to "protect the public"? With that the case, it shouldn't be a surprise that someone that got caught doing something stupid at 19 can never recover and be a productive member of society. They are being set up to fail over and over.

If you think all that government "help" is a problem, I sure as shit hope you don't vote for the party that wants the government to solve even more of your problems...

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Wonder why? If phones are so valuable to prisoners, how about not smashing them up. Oh right, there is a reason they are prisoners"

Smashing up a prison phone usually ensures that YOU will be smashed up by 15 other prisoners out of sight of the C.O. Especially if the phones are claimed and access controlled by the gangs.

  They break because of improper maintenence, the prevailing "we don't give a fuck, after all, they're criminals", so it takes a long time for any of them to get repaired when something goes faulty, etc, etc.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[c6gunner]

I am familiar with the issues you've outlined. I think most of us realize that there are aspect of the prison system which need improving. The kind of problems you've laid out here don't exist in allprisons, but they shouldn't exist in any prisons. Obviously any reasonable person would be in favour of fixing it, but that's a whole seperate issue from the question of inmates having their own cellphones.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[kenh]

Yup, your case sounds like a very typical example of the average convicted felon serving time. /Sarcasm

I'm sorry you were picked randomly and put behind bars without cause. /sarcasm

It's prison, you're being punished, and cellphones are prohibited. That prison is interfering with your ability to manage your affairs while behind bars isn't really the primary concern of the jailers.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[kenh]

No, install the 'fake cell tower', capture all calls, forward them to phone system (let calls go through) and record them.

The technology is available off-the-shelf, and the information gleaned could help prison better manage population.

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[kenh]

Guards have walkie talkies, and pretty sure prisons have hardline phones

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[kenh]

You ever heard of VHF marine radio?

Re: They should have been doing this all along.

[kenh]

Any reasonable jammer can have its signal reduced to minimize the area affected... a product that spills out a kilometer past the targeted area is pure garbage.

Re:They should have been doing this all along.

[MooseTick]

" I sure as shit hope you don't vote for the party that wants the government to solve even more of your problems..."

Like building a wall?
or locking more people up?
or being hard on drugs?
or telling women how their health care should go?
or making sure you can sell guns to anyone?

You're right. I won't be voting for a government that will solve those problems.

Track and sieze

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just track them or stingray them? We do it to legal citizens but not prisoners?

Re:Track and sieze

[Anonymous Coward]

So the phone contractor for the prison can charge $5 per call, regardless of how long it went? Oh, and oops, you got disconnected after 30 seconds.

Yeah, this is a CONSTANT problem in jails. Inmates get charged rates up to $10/minute effectively. A cell phone from outside can save thousands of dollars a year and allow you to spend that money on your family, child support, etc..

Re:Track and sieze

[No Longer an AC]

Why not just stop contraband from getting into prisons in the first place? I realize it's not an easy problem, but getting rid of corrupt prison guards would be a good start.

Re: Track and sieze

[kenh]

Fix the hardline phone system, don't tolerate cellphones.

Their own cell tower?

[Anonymous Coward]

They should just put up their own cell tower and intercept all calls and triangulate the call and go get the phones.

Re:Their own cell tower?

[fahrbot-bot]

They should just put up their own cell tower and intercept all calls and triangulate the call and go get the phones.

Um... Wouldn't that need three towers? :-)

Re: Their own cell tower?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they're jamming then they would need more

Re:Their own cell tower?

[ShanghaiBill]

Um... Wouldn't that need three towers? :-)

No. You could put multiple antennas on one tower. You don't need much spatial separation.

Re:Their own cell tower?

[fahrbot-bot]

Um... Wouldn't that need three towers? :-)

No. You could put multiple antennas on one tower. You don't need much spatial separation.

Thanks; I did not know (or think of) that. I imagine, though, that the greater the antenna separation, the greater the accuracy (precision? both?).

Re:Their own cell tower?

[Freischutz]

They should just put up their own cell tower and intercept all calls and triangulate the call and go get the phones.

Um... Wouldn't that need three towers? :-)

No, they know which antennas on the cell tower the call is being routed through and they can calculate the distance and direction, but I don't think that is precise enough. If it was they'd have done this already.

Re:Their own cell tower?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wider antenna spread reduces the timing precision you need.

Re: Their own cell tower?

[kenh]

Triangulation isn't necessary, cellphones have GPS.

Also most pernicious of all

[Anonymous Coward]

These phones prevent corrections officials from overcharging inmates for telephone services far in excess of any costs.

This shall not stand! I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow!

they should all be supermax

[Anonymous Coward]

23 hours a day in your cell. 1 hour of exercise.

Re:they should all be supermax

[Anonymous Coward]

23 hours a day in your cell. 1 hour of exercise.

So like you in your Momma's basement but with exercising?

Re:they should all be supermax

[JaredOfEuropa]

Why? A prison should serve several functions, only one of them being punishment. How about rehabilitation? Very few prisoners deserve life imprisonment, and it is in everyone's best interest to do what we can to have prisoners re-enter society as best they can when their time is up. You will not accomplish that by treating them like animals.

Re:they should all be supermax

[Anonymous Coward]

remember this is the US.

Re:they should all be supermax

[AHuxley]

Re How about rehabilitation?
The US has found rehabilitation does not work on superpredators.

Re:they should all be supermax

[SuricouRaven]

"Superpredators?" How do you even define that? If such a thing is even a valid classification, it's going to be a tiny part of the prison population. We all like to think that the prisons are full of murderers, rapists and pedophiles, but it's just not true. Drug offenses make up the largest proportion.

Re:they should all be supermax

[AHuxley]

The term superpredators was used to keep the rest of the USA safe for years.
By keeping superpredators in prison for longer.

Re: they should all be supermax

[kenh]

Hillary has a definition of 'super predator', ask her.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...

Pointless

[Anonymous Coward]

The prison guards are the ones bringing in and allowing the cell phone use.

If you want to fix the prisons, allow cell phones. Allow computers. Teach the inmates how to program.

Russia, Chaina, and Mexico have thousands of hackers that are trying to undermine the USA by infiltrating our computer and media networks.

Give the Gang-Stars in prison carte blanche to any money they get from compromising foreign nations. Just let them know hacking on USAian soil against USAians or her business is a death sentence.

When will America stop torturing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you want to breed crime?
Cause this is how you breed crime!

Will American ever get, that there is no such thing as just punishment?
That there is no difference between the one who did harm and the one who did harm as punishment/revenge?

That all it does, is grow the exact traumata that turned those people into criminals.
And teach them that not harm itself is the bad thing, but that they did not say "but he deserved it!" and convince others of it.

Oh, wait, I forgot! Law enforcement is a *business* over there! A *for-profit* business! With shareholders... demanding growing growing growth growth... shall grow!
Nevermind then.
We'll just wait until the wasteland becomes habitable to humans again. (Those unlizardly-brained things with empathy and common sense.)

Re:When will America stop torturing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wastelands are exciting places. This is evidenced by the fact Holywood is always making movies about them. They are also always making movies about crime. I think the system really does want turn the country into a wasteland filled with crime. Face it, peace is boring. War and crime on the other hand are exciting. Women want to be with soldiers, or criminals. They do not want to hang out with boring salary men.

The planet could be a Utopia if we all would just get along and support one another. However we do not. That would be boring as fuck.

So bring on the WAR. We need excitement, that can not be gained by playing Fortnight. We need real war, real injustice, and real blood

Well I'm off to jail. I want to start a few prison riots. When I get out all the chicks will be falling all over my penis.

When your run out of injustice to fight, you are left with creating more injustice in the world to give the liberals something to crusade against.

$1 per minute from Payphones

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop charging the inmates exuberant fees to call their family and the smuggling problem will likely go away.
If you ever had a collect call from someone in Jail you will know that 10-20 dollars don't take you long where a prepaid phone will,
Organized crime will always find a way to communicate via visitors , coded letters, etc

Re:$1 per minute from Payphones

[Hognoxious]

Exuberant fees? They dance around and sing or something?

Geofencing

[Anonymous Coward]

Jammers are messy. Why not just have wireless providers geofence prisons and deny service. They already have triangulation capabilities.

Re:Geofencing

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just a faraday cage the place? How hard can it be?

Re:Geofencing

[SuricouRaven]

They don't have triangulation. They have cell identification. Easy enough if the prison is in the middle of nowhere, but a surprising amount are within cities* - cut them off that way and you also cut off all the surrounding buildings.

*Often they were build just outside of the city, and the city then grew.

Re:Geofencing

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just a faraday cage the place? How hard can it be?

Wrong question, silly taxpayer.

You meant to ask how expensive can it be.

And the answer is obvious.

Re:Geofencing

[Anonymous Coward]

That would probably be the best policy. They could whitelist certain devices (namely. phones owned by prison administrations/guards) and block everything else.

No need for actual jammers.

Re:Geofencing

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but they CAN geofence the prisons by positioning their towers facing away from the prison, and any signals that reach the prison (which can be from miles away, literately you can get roaming charges by being within line of sight of a tower 100 miles away.)

They should take a page from convention center's poor signal coverage and just run their own pico cells inside the prison that overpower the the surrounding towers and send those signals to monitoring equipment, or throw them away.

But I digress, I don't want to make prisoners lives worse, but if it's pretty clear that crimes are being committed from inside the prison using cell phones, then the phones need to be whitelisted and matched with prisoners, and any unidentified cell phone inside the prison area gets blacklisted from registering on the cell network. Prisoners have no right to privacy if their use their phones in the prison, and the cell carrier can explicitly send them log files of sites accessed, texts sent and phone calls made on a daily basis.

Don't forget, smart nerds can defeat even the "smartest" electronics, so the only people you don't want having a cell phone are the ones that are in prison for a crime that involves computers.

The real danger

[sjames]

The prison payphones charge $10/minute to whoever accepts the call. They don't want to lose those sweet sweet kickbacks.

Re:The real danger

[alvinrod]

The other part of it is that there are people in prison with serious ties to criminal enterprise and the authorities want to be aware of anything that they're saying over the phone. It's a lot easier to spy on everything when it's done through the prison's phone system.

Re: The real danger

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, why are they fighting. You may have uncovered the real reason under the moral high ground. Nice

Re:The real danger

[sjames]

They could start with reducing the rates for prisoners talking with family on the outside to normal levels to reduce the non-criminal incentive to smuggle cellphones (including probably many thriving discount phone call businesses run by prisoners).

Ideally, they'd let prisoners freely make monitored calls and set up their own mini-tower to monitor. After all, if the goal is ACTUALLY successful re-integration into society, fostering family ties would be an important step.

Re:The real danger

[guruevi]

The goal of jail is to keep dangerous people away from society, not integrate or become an extension of it. If I go to jail and call on the phone, watch tv, see loved ones, surf the web all while getting a roof, heat, medical care and regular nutritious meals then what's the incentive of staying out?

You get your time, your visitors, phone calls should be part of the visitation times you get. Rest of the time should be reflection in your cell on the decisions made.

Re:The real danger

[sjames]

Gee, that works so well! At some point, most people in prison are to be released. They will either re-integrate into society or they will be forced to turn back to crime to survive. Most of us would prefer the former to the latter.

Re:The real danger

[SuricouRaven]

By punishing prisoners in the way you seem to propose, you worsen reoffending rates. Deliberately and intentionally making them suffer sends them a very clear message: "Society has no place for you, and we all want to see you in pain and misery." Eventually those prisoners usually get released. Do you expect them to feel any loyalty to a society which has made it quite clear they will never be accepted, and that actively wants to hurt them?

Re:The real danger

[mlyle]

Yah, what a ridiculous idea he offers. If I can call on the phone, watch TV, and surf on the web, I *totally* want to go to prison.

Re:The real danger

[Anonymous Coward]

There are already those who prefer life inside. They've traded their economic value for life (remember, they still work--if you want TV, you'd better have a job) for that set of room, board, and medical/recreational services.

Instead of, say, earning 160$/day and spending 140$ of it, they get only $1 at most--so it can be argued they spent 159$ of their economic potential (and are thus more stimulating to the economy).

So why DON'T we offer better services? Sign up more people? It's UBI in action, right now, but with horrible mistreatment of human beings who might want to do better in life.

That would be unamericanly Christian!

[Anonymous Coward]

And you're not a Jesusmmunist, are ya?

If only you could block without jamming!

[Gravis Zero]

It's too bad there's no way to block a cell phone signal without flooding the frequency range it uses! Strangely, I haven't heard Warden Faraday complain about rogue signals. I'm sure he just has the nicest inmates. ;)

Re:If only you could block without jamming!

[fustakrakich]

Warden Faraday

Exactly, jamming is stupid.. I believe the idea is to justify something much worse on the "outside"...

Re:If only you could block without jamming!

[SuricouRaven]

Cell phones are high enough frequency to leak through holes. You'd need to retrofit the entire prison, which is going to mean lots of construction work. Expensive.

Re:If only you could block without jamming!

[geekmux]

It's too bad there's no way to block a cell phone signal without flooding the frequency range it uses! Strangely, I haven't heard Warden Faraday complain about rogue signals. I'm sure he just has the nicest inmates. ;)

Strangely I haven't heard one taxpayer volunteer to raise their taxes to pay for your "easy" solution. I'm sure we would have the nicest prisons if money was no object.

Unfortunately, we live in the real world.

Re:If only you could block without jamming!

[Anonymous Coward]

There's another easier way, the prison should just setup a stingray cell tower. All the cell phones connect to it. Several advantages over jamming:
1) Your not screwing up the airwaves
2) You can monitor the phone calls and find out what the inmates were trying to hide, which might be more useful than just blocking
3) You can cross reference legit cell phones and then know how many illegal cell phones are in your prison, and track 'em down one by one if you want based on usage time and signal strength to the stingray tower

ABSOLUTELY A GOOD IDEA!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

IMHO:

Jamming all cellphone signals should/must be just a start!

Using tech to locate each phone & add more prison time to its user, would be even better!

Do prisoners have a right to cheap phone service?

Absolutely no!!! These are people who betrayed their society & absolutely do not deserve any freedoms/conveniences!

Not to mention, no doubt, many of them would use any cheap phone service to run their "business"/gangs, or, make threatening phone calls to public!!!

Re: ABSOLUTELY A GOOD IDEA!!!

[WindBourne]

This is a whole other issue. And no. Communications with loved ones, esp on first conviction, can turn ppl.

Give them access

[Anonymous Coward]

Give them recorded access without forcing their families to pay out the ass. Or give them cell phones where you're already recording everything. Stop making them need contraband.

people, process, technology.

[pointbeing]

You don't deploy technology to address a people issue.

Re:people, process, technology.

[Anonymous Coward]

prison guard unions won't let them fix the actual problem. corrupt guards that let drugs & contraband inside.

Re:people, process, technology.

[ShanghaiBill]

You don't deploy technology to address a people issue.

Why not? People are notoriously hard to change. Deploying tech is almost always a better solution.

Re:people, process, technology.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. People don't change. This is why technology exists.

Wasted opportunity

[MikeRT]

Instead they should put a custom-built tower on site that would capture the voice traffic of all phones there and do full tracking and MITM attacking on encrypted coms.

Re:Wasted opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually that would be really smart... let them think they are sneaking in cell phones and having private convos.... inside directional frequency counters can pinpoint exactly who was one the phone as well.

Re:Wasted opportunity

[AHuxley]

They know of voice prints and collect it all systems.
The communications still gets out.
Messages still get in.
The problem is instant the US wide and global communications.
Not who is talking, the location and what is been said.

This is a bad idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

This means people in prison can't report the atrocities happening within the prison from other inmates or from prison staff. A lot people people would be silenced, and could end up dead.

Cell phones aren't the only means of communicating

[Anonymous Coward]

Cell phones aren't the only means of communicating with outsiders. The idea that you will not be able to communicate through unapproved means is a fantasy of prison wardens. Even if you block cell phones there are other sorts of radios which can be smuggled in. I have a bunch of $20-40 baofeng radios that reach across town. I can't conceive of any prison being able to prevent those with substantial criminal enterprises from being able to communicate with outsiders using unapproved communications mechanisms.

Way to segregate the "bad people" even further

[Anonymous Coward]

This is stupid, we're literally talking about ensuring we've properly walled off a small city.
The US prison system contains 2.3 million people. That's around five times the population of the entire state of Wyoming.

These people are exploited as part of a for-profit prison system, with no real expectation of rehabilitation. If they were somehow rehabilitated, they would impose a negative impact on future profits; so of course this system is built to ensure a speedy return after release.

We've already physically segregated them from the rest of society. What the hell does it matter what phone calls they make? Do you think they're all making calls to stage jail breaks? They most likely just want to talk to their families and friends, trying to keep in touch with life on the other side.

Even if they did break out, what are they going to do? Get caught again shortly after? Maybe not get caught again by adjusting to society and living a low-key life within the rules. If they did the latter, would anyone really care?

Re:Way to segregate the "bad people" even further

[geekmux]

This is stupid, we're literally talking about ensuring we've properly walled off a small city.

The only thing stupid here is using sheer size in an ignorant attempt to dismiss the justification.

The US prison system contains 2.3 million people. That's around five times the population of the entire state of Wyoming. These people are exploited as part of a for-profit prison system, with no real expectation of rehabilitation. If they were somehow rehabilitated, they would impose a negative impact on future profits; so of course this system is built to ensure a speedy return after release.

Oh, so all those "people" behind bars are actually victims of the prison system? What kind of idiot are you? They don't randomly pluck people from the street and put them in prison simply because "profits". You earn your way in.

We've already physically segregated them from the rest of society.

Yeah, logic tends to dictate that when you're dealing with murderers, rapists, and other psychopaths. Go figure.

You keep referring to them as "people", but many of them aren't. They're twisted animals who barely deserve to be locked up in a cage and fed. Amazing how we've eradicated the death penalty on moral grounds as society defends other rights. Fact: You can kill an unborn child far easier than a convicted mass murderer.

What the hell does it matter what phone calls they make? Do you think they're all making calls to stage jail breaks? They most likely just want to talk to their families and friends, trying to keep in touch with life on the other side.

They have a regular phone system in place for that, but hey, let's just assume that a population of 100% criminals is honest and trustworthy. I'm sure that'll work out well.

Even if they did break out, what are they going to do? Get caught again shortly after? Maybe not get caught again by adjusting to society and living a low-key life within the rules. If they did the latter, would anyone really care?

Let me know how you feel when one of them breaks out and kills a loved one. Obviously you need a reminder of exactly what the worst-case scenario is here.

Re:Way to segregate the "bad people" even further

[Anonymous Coward]

These people are exploited as part of a for-profit prison system

Only 8.4% of State and Federal prisoners in the U.S. are in private prisons.

You probably think local schools in the U.S. also have problems because they're all for-profit, right?

Re:Way to segregate the "bad people" even further

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, so all those "people" behind bars are actually victims of the prison system?

Statistically, yes. Or are you suggesting that our criminal justice system is so accurate that the 98% of cases plead out guilty without full due process are all correct?

I'm glad you trust the cops so much.

Re:Way to segregate the "bad people" even further

[geekmux]

Oh, so all those "people" behind bars are actually victims of the prison system?

Statistically, yes. Or are you suggesting that our criminal justice system is so accurate that the 98% of cases plead out guilty without full due process are all correct?

I'm glad you trust the cops so much.

I don't trust cops as much as I trust myself to follow the damn law, which is the easy way to avoid prison. The definition of victim is rather clear, and if you truly believe that the majority of people behind bars didn't earn that trip inside, you are seriously delusional.

It's rather clear how you end up in prison, and when the other 99.99% of the human race can manage to avoid it, it's hardly a system designed to entrap people unfairly. The main way you end up finding yourself on the bad end of a plea bargain is if you fucked up enough in the first place to get arrested.

Needless to say, my sympathy wanes.

Re:Way to segregate the "bad people" even further

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just the private prisons who profit. Judges, lawyers, prosecutors, cops, lenders, tabloid journalists and a whole lot of other people have a personal interest in making money off this revolving door system.

Every time a person is up on charges, a lawyer earns a nice, fat retainer. Cops get bonuses and accolades for acts of "heroism" even before a guilty verdict is reached. Banks make money off the interest from the borrowing that a lot of people require for a legal defense. Judges owe their entire careers to the system being so clogged up as to require so many judges in the first place. Journalists get rewarded for dragging people's names through the dirt and taking unflattering photographs of them going through the most frightening chapters of their lives.

Now, throw all that in with a society that still has a medieval obsession with tossing prisoners in torturous dungeons (only with less Iron Maidens and more gang rapes), run by a system that paints murderers with the same brush they'd use for a teenager with some weed in his pocket. That's a recipe for one hell of a dysfunctional system where corruption and profiteering are a foregone conclusion even when looking at such a system on paper, let alone in practice.

Even if 0% of prisons were private, we'd still have a lot of problems with collusion between many related professions and industries gaming the system to create as many criminals as possible. It's no wonder only the rich manage to dodge prison. What's needed is a complete teardown and reform of the entire penal system, from the ground up, to ensure true justice for all, not just for those who can afford it.

one major problem

[renegade600]

jamming phones in prison also means phones are jammed outside the prison too. cell phones in prison is a problem and a way to stop them is needed but punishing those who live, work close or driving down a road beside the prison is wrong. True the distance from the prison would be limited but still...

Re:one major problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Put prisons in the middle of Bumfuck, Nowhere. Inadvertent jamming of the public 'just driving by' is minimal.

Absolutely

[WindBourne]

Look, the prison has a responsibility to prevent just this situation. Let them kill the signals.

Give them the phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a great way to keep them in jail longer and take down their co-conspirators. What a great way to keep the corporate incarceration business flush with government cash.

"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill got caught lying 12-25 times repeatedly stating "Blood plasma is sterile" and then later that "The Chinese Govt does not directly censor Chinese citizens" and other absolute bullshit head-in-ass retard-level lies. You're not trustworthy.

You are not a source of information that anyone should or even could trust, knowing your dishonest history. Sorry. That's what accountability means when you get caught lying repeatedly, over and over, even after directly corrected.

You're a liar, Bill. I hope you try it under oath and get thrown in the slammer you patently dishonest cunt.

Re:"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over

[Anonymous Coward]

your a knob

local tower with $1/min roaming and $10 meg will

[Joe_Dragon]

local tower with $1/min roaming, $10 meg + $1 text each way will stop there use.

You're a liar, Bill.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're essentially saying "more communication is better" - that's fine. What OP said was inmates having ILLEGAL CELL PHONES reduced recidivism. None of your unrelated links go anywhere close.

You're a liar once again of hundreds of times, Bill.

Re:You're a liar, Bill.

[dryeo]

The problem that the AC seems to state is a shortage of legal phones, thus making illegal phones more important.
There's been multiple stories here about how prisons handle phones, they charge a fortune and have a shortage of phones.
Better would be reasonable access to phones for the prisoners.

Re:You're a liar, Bill.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no actual "shortage" of legal phones, he's decrying the draconian pricing and extremely limited access most prisoners experience. Those are valid problems that need to be fixed institutionally. You can't get around that.

This isn't solved by allowing illegal unmonitored cell phone communication between prisoners, people court-determined to lose their right to that for xyz reasons.

Obviously there are A LOT of considerations, prisons have a lot of valid issues to solve and phone access for low-risk individuals is entirely solvable with minimal investment over existing.

But just allowing "whatever goes" for cell phones as a Dept of Corrections policy? Lol, no. It will never happen, it's a bad idea on a lot of levels too long to get into here. They have their rules for good reasons.

Some of them do need tweaks, all of them need oversight and investment, and nobody but nobody wants to spend more money on prisons than we are now. That's WHY for-profit prisons exist in the first place!

But again, none of this is solved with some willy-nilly cell phone free for all IN A PRISON, the idea is just batshit insane as a general policy. Could 'good behavior' programs allow something? Sure. Even then, monitored.

Re:You're a liar, Bill.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, there is an actual shortage of legal phones. I've done a bid, so I know first-hand, and I'm going to explain it to you real simple-like. Let's do the math.

Phone calls are allowed from 9 AM to 10 PM, except during mandated activities (work, rec, and so on). That's 13 hours. In practice, an inmate might work 4 hours a day, have 1.5 hours a day of meals, 4 hours of groups, and 1 hour of rec--during those phone hours. 4 + 1.5 +4 + 1 = 10.5 hours. So an inmate has 13 - 10.5 = 2.5 hours in which to compete with every other inmate in their pod (who share their schedule, so there's typically very little way to spread out the phone time) for phone time in a day.

Say your pod has 50 people in it. (Please, try to remember that these are people we're talking about. Conscious, feeling, thinking beings.) 2.5 hours for 50 people to make calls on 3 phones, 1 of which is broken because the fucking new guy sprayed it with cleaner and damaged the board (they're highly susceptible to water damage).

2.5 hours for 50 people to make calls on 2 phones, or equivalently, 2.5 hours for 25 people to call on 1 phone. That gives each person 2.5 * 60 / 25 = 6 minutes a day.

You just don't have any fucking clue, and it shows.

Entitlement

[Ann Coulter]

Why do prisoners get to have contact with the outside at all? Ban all phones, televisions, radios, visitors, letters, and the like from prisons. The prisons can still profit from the friends and families of the prisoners by allowing them to pay for their stays and meals.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

More than one lawyer estimates that 70% of us are guilty of some Federal felony or other. The other 30% could be put away by pressured testimony from 70 percenters. The reason you are not in prison is that no prosecutor ever got interested in you. "There but for the grace of God go I" is a good saying to remember.

Then there's my safety to consider. I'm safer if there's less recidivism. Visits and outside contact are proven to reduce recidivism.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the point of prison if they have the same life inside that they have outside?

Cut em off.

Re:Entitlement

[SuricouRaven]

Because making prisoners suffer is a great way to win votes, but a terrible way to rehabilitate prisoners. The more you isolate them from the outside world, the most they will connect with their new friends inside. You just end up making a system where people can enter prison for petty theft or possession, and leave with an invitation to join one of the local gangs and no hope of a legitimate job.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do prisoners get to have contact with the outside at all? Ban all phones, televisions, radios, visitors, letters, and the like from prisons.

Why do you have to get in contact with the outside at all? You should be banned from using phones, televisions, radios, going outside, and the like.

Prisoners are still people. They may have (or not) wronged society, but that doesn't mean we have to sink down to the level of animals and make them lose hope in the system and deprive them of everything. Those communications are already monitored, what's the problem?

I thought we were all civilized here, but apparently that's not the case.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny you should mention this.

I knew very few people in the criminal community, outside of my own niche activity, until I was incarcerated. Suddenly, I have access to a world of contacts with a skillset crossing the entirety of society--and they don't particularly care for legal niceties because they've seen the reality of them up close and very personally.

If you keep radicalizing people, eventually there will be more gangs and independent criminals than "honest" folk. I suspect things will get pretty entertaining at that point.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

As the Reich v3.0 put it, "arbeit macht frei".

We're still just animals.

Re:Entitlement

[eaglesrule]

Authoritarians don't care if their 'solution' makes the problem worse. There's almost no consideration beyond the first immediate and easy answer, as if the inevitable unintended consequences is just impossible for them to comprehend.

It's not surprising that the prison system would follow the same pattern that brought us the drug war.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

YOU are a complete fucking retarded asshole.
Die in a fire you fucking anti human freak.

Re:Entitlement

[SuricouRaven]

Authoritarians need someone to have authority over. Some sort of legitimate victim, who it is socially acceptable to persecute, and who their supporters feel little or no sympathy for. Prisoners are just about perfect for that. Most of society hates them already, and feels more confident in their own moral superiority because they feel such hate.

Re:Entitlement

[eaglesrule]

I'm not sure it's about the need for authoritarians might feel to exert dominance over prisoners in particular, or just the casualness in which they wield power without due consideration for the consequences. Think of 'zero tolerance' and 'tough on crime' policies that might seem at first glance to be useful actions to solve a problem, but really just amount to maintaining the appearance of 'doing something' to satisfy a demand. Much like the question the OP posed.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

The only people who would sympathize with prisoners are criminals themselves. They only want to escape the full punishment of their crimes in case they get caught. All of their supposed arguments for prison reform and leniency are shams. The proper course of action would be to investigate them and prosecute them for their crimes.

Re:Entitlement

[Anonymous Coward]

There are very simple ways to reduce the number of criminals out in society.

APK To The Rescue!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Prisons would not have problems with inmates using illegal cell phones if prisons had used APK's wonderous HOSTS file hacks!

APK solves EVERYTHING! It will even solve problems like TRUMP, OBAMA, and CLINTONS!

"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill got caught lying 12-25 times repeatedly stating "Blood plasma is sterile" and then later that "The Chinese Govt does not directly censor Chinese citizens" and other absolute bullshit head-in-ass retard-level lies. You're not trustworthy.

You are not a source of information that anyone should or even could trust, knowing your dishonest history. Sorry. That's what accountability means when you get caught lying repeatedly, over and over, even after directly corrected.

You're a liar, Bill.

My question too. Why not a Stingray?

[Anonymous Coward]

They could get even more control than they have over the landline phones.

"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill got caught lying 12-25 times repeatedly stating "Blood plasma is sterile" and then later that "The Chinese Govt does not directly censor Chinese citizens" and other absolute bullshit head-in-ass retard-level lies. You're not trustworthy.

You are not a source of information that anyone should or even could trust, knowing your dishonest history. Sorry. That's what accountability means when you get caught lying repeatedly, over and over, even after directly corrected.

  You're a liar, Bill.

What is the issue here?

[Anonymous Coward]

Prisons are prisons. The only obligation to the prisoners is to make sure they have sufficient food and clean conditions. Fuck all the luxuries! It's too bad there is even an argument over this. We are so fucked!

Need for cell access

[BankRobberMBA]

I agree, but I would point out that many of the administrative staff would bring their phones in and play with them at Mainline (Mainline is the name for the dining hall in most federal prisons). So, those people will be pissed when they can no longer use them, but they aren't supposed to have them anyway. There is always the very real risk that one of us would steal the phone.

The bigger problem is that the current federal law forbids use of devices to block cell signals. Oddly, it is not illegal to have cell phone jammers, just illegal to use them. The current proposed legislation I presume is cutting out an exemption for correctional facilities.

Not everyone's best interests

[rsilvergun]

if you run private prisons it's not in your interest. You want them back.

about 9 years in a federal Low

[BankRobberMBA]

MOST of the cellphones in my prison were used to have phone sex without the guards listening in and for downloading pornography.

Theoretically, every minute of every phone call from inmate to the outside world is surveilled by the guards. In reality, the guards are really lazy, and they discovered they were allowed to fast forward through the dull parts, so not all of it gets listened to. Still, it's more comfortable to be able to talk to your woman while lying in bed after lights out, rather than standing in the common area on the pay phone during phone hours.

Additionally, in the feds we were given (I think) 300 minutes of phone time a month. When you're through, you're through. A cellphone lets you talk as much as you want.

Also, when I first got in, long distance was around 60 or 70 cents/minute, don't remember exactly. Later they reduced it to about 10 cents/minute. that was a huge relief for a lot of people that had good family connections who were using the full 300 minutes a month.

So, at least in my prison, not much gang-running. YMMV, of course.

cripple-able prison-issued phones

[BankRobberMBA]

I said for years this was a win-win solution. And it isn't tax-payer money at all. The prisoners would buy the phones at the commissary, just like they buy mp3 players and radios. There is a regulation right now that commissaries cannot sell inmates anything that costs over $100, so that might need to be addressed.

All calls can still be recorded and monitored. Inmates can receive incoming calls, so staff don't have to forward messages to 'please call home'. Prisons no longer have to maintain the current payphone hardware (or rather, not as much of it.) Best of all, from the prison perspective, almost all of the inmates will be carrying a locator device at all times, and probably a remotely activated microphone as well.

Is this a violation of prisoner rights? Maybe, but 80% or 90% of the inmates at my prison would have lined up for the privelege of buying one.

On the other hand, most prison staff actively hate inmates and want to make their punishment more severe. You should have seen how pissed off they were when we got mp3 players on commissary.

Re: cripple-able prison-issued phones

[Anonymous Coward]

"Is this a violation of prisoner rights? Maybe," You're damned right it is, that wouldn't be allowed and you'd get shut down in weeks or days. It has to come from the top down and only after DOC-level Judiciary-level considerations.

Cell phones in the commissary would be fine for the country-club private prisons maybe. Real prison? Oh fuck no.

the deuces

[BankRobberMBA]

A radio on the waist with a red button to sound a 'body alarm'. Also if the radio hits the ground (like being dropped, or the guard trips) it sounds an alarm. Also all of the landline phones are set so that if they hit the 2 button more than twice in a row (called "hitting the deuces") it sounds an alarm.

More time

[BankRobberMBA]

Actually, if an inmate is caught with a cellphone, he is guaranteed to lose good time, which will extend his stay in prison. In the feds, anyway.

Not by that much, though.

Texting

[BankRobberMBA]

Odd you should mention texting.

There are services that will provide inmates an outside telephone number and will conduct text messaging communication through the CorrLinks system (this is the inmate email messaging system in the feds (I think also in some state prison systems, but I'm not sure)). CorrLinks charges 5 cents a minute for email access and the outside service converts from text to CorrLinks and vice versa.

"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill got caught lying 12-25 times repeatedly stating "Blood plasma is sterile" and then later that "The Chinese Govt does not directly censor Chinese citizens" and other absolute bullshit head-in-ass retard-level lies. You're not trustworthy.

You are not a source of information that anyone should or even could trust, knowing your dishonest history. Sorry. That's what accountability means when you get caught lying repeatedly, over and over, even after directly corrected.

You're a liar, Bill. Cellphones are already banned you fucking moron.

Prison-owned cellular provider

[DesertNomad]

Yet another incredibly unthinkingly lame idea from those who don't understand technology.

Far better to put a captive cell network in the confines of the prison and capture the cells inside the compound. If it's a friendly cell, and one known to be that of a worker, who can be checked for possession at any time (like send a text that has to be replied to with a specific, changing personal code), let the call go through, maybe. Or it gets routed to the prison IT group. If it's an unknown cell, or otherwise suspicious, let the call go to /dev/null, or maybe even better yet, have it go to a random robocall center!

Re:Prison-owned cellular provider

[PPH]

If it's an unknown cell, or otherwise suspicious,

Track the call to its destination. Turn that information over to law enforcement for further investigation.

All calls to/from prisons may be monitored for security purposes. So extend this to calls involving contraband cell phones in prisons. And make a few organized crime, gang and drug busts on the outside.

The prison is causing it for profit you idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you actually this stupid?

ABSOLUTELY no IDEA!!! WindBourne

[Anonymous Coward]

Can turn people what?
Good?
Bad?
Gay?
Straight?
Into liars like you?

Re:Cell phones aren't the only means of communicat

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd need a pretty cavernous butthole to get those baofeng radios into a prison.

Re:"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but he;s not wrong though...

Better solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Setup cell towers at the jail that will get all of those phones' signals, then record every conversation and prosecute people

Alternative solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember those sticks you were supposed to put under your cell phone's back cover, intended to boost signal strength? Well, they "worked"... causing the phone to think it had a good signal, but often completely breaking the cellular connection. Start covering all interior surfaces with those, and the problem could be solved without jammers.

Re:"Shanghai" Bill is a known liar many times over

[Anonymous Coward]

your

yo'ur'e

He's part of the problem, he has no solutions

[Anonymous Coward]

He doesn't care, doesn't want to care, and won't care if his life depended on it. He has no sypmathy for you. He doesn't care because he's part of the problem and profits from the way things are. Arguing with C6Gunner about anything that isn't 100% conservatard asskissing biblethumping circlejerking is an effort in futility. You'll get that prison reform you want before you get an ounce of sympathy from him.

No Rehabilitation

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? A prison should serve several functions, only one of them being punishment. How about rehabilitation? Very few prisoners deserve life imprisonment, and it is in everyone's best interest to do what we can to have prisoners re-enter society as best they can when their time is up. You will not accomplish that by treating them like animals.

To my knowledge, no modern scholar seriously contends that rehabilitation is actually a purpose of prison.

There are some pretrial diversion programs, etc..., that do aim to lower recidivism rates, but prison itself is really there as a deterrent and a punishment, not a rehabilitation.

Re:No Rehabilitation

[JaredOfEuropa]

That really depends on your prison. If you just lock up people, and turn them out with the suit they came in with and a bus fare, then you're right. But if you add a library, access to education, family visits, help with psychological issues, phone calls, or the occasional furlough, you're already improving the odds of rehabilitation. Many prisons in Europe specifically aim to help prisoners adjust to a normal life, with a regimen that provides jobs or stuff to do as well as things that help (re)build necessary social skills that most of us take for granted. For instance, the Dutch Ministry for Justice explicitly states 3 goals of prison sentences: retribution (punishment), security (locking up people prevents them from committing more crimes), and prevention of recidivism by preparing prisoners for life after prison.

This doesn't end crime; recidivism remains high, though not nearly as high as in prisons without any rehabilitation program. Rehabilitation works poorly, but it does work.