Machine Learning Is Making Pesto Even More Delicious (technologyreview.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from MIT Technology Review: Machine learning has been used to create basil plants that are extra-delicious. While we sadly cannot report firsthand on the herb's taste, the effort reflects a broader trend that involves using data science and machine learning to improve agriculture. The researchers behind the AI-optimized basil used machine learning to determine the growing conditions that would maximize the concentration of the volatile compounds responsible for basil's flavor. The study appears in the journal PLOS One today.

The basil was grown in hydroponic units within modified shipping containers in Middleton, Massachusetts. Temperature, light, humidity, and other environmental factors inside the containers could be controlled automatically. The researchers tested the taste of the plants by looking for certain compounds using gas chromatography and mass spectrometry. And they fed the resulting data into machine-learning algorithms developed at MIT and a company called Cognizant. The research showed, counterintuitively, that exposing plants to light 24 hours a day generated the best taste. The research group plans to study how the technology might improve the disease-fighting capabilities of plants as well as how different flora may respond to the effects of climate change.

Comments

Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an indoor greenhouse/garden but pretty much every book I've read says you should at least give plants 2-4 hours of darkness.

This study says 24 hours of non-stop "sunlight" is the way to go.

Can anyone confirm if this is healthy for plants generally? I might have to switch my light timers.

Re: Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

It said the plants taste better. It didn't say it was good for them.

Re: Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

How can that be good for them? They'll never get to sleep!

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

I've tried 24 hour lighting before and it sucks ass. After a while, my plants started looking droopy like they're exhausted and needed sleep. They also don't grow very much at all when you give them non-stop sunlight. Growth seems to predominantly occur during dark hours, using energy that was stored up during daylight hours.

I got the best results by tweaking on/off cycles such that I had two effective days/nights during one 24 hour period. I could grow plants this way significantly faster than anything grown outside in the sun. Think of plants as little solar battery powered machines. They store up energy during the day and then spend that energy growing new tissue at night. Like batteries, there is only a limited capacity for storing so much energy at once, so it makes sense to create shorter artificial days/nights to speed up growth, especially for small young plants that have very limited storage capacity.

Basil that I grew indoors made huge leaves that tasted better to me than outdoor grown basil.

Strawberries grown indoors, unfortunately, taste like watered down crap. Apparently, strawberries need a lot more time and environmental stressors (UV, hot/cold cycling, water limiting, etc) to develop high quality tasting berries.

Re: Hmm

[lsllll]

Is doesn't matter if it's good for them or not. They're slave to us!

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, and as far as this article is concerned, I think they're full of crap. I didn't notice any Basil taste differences when increasing (or decreasing) the lighting hours. The taste improvements of Basil all seemed to stem from the lack of stresses when growing Basil indoors vs outdoors.

Basil seems to love having unlimited water in a hydroponic environment vs growing in comparatively dry soil. Growing Basil in hydroponics outside was good, but still not as good as Basil indoors under less abusive temperature fluctuation than I have outdoors in the hot, dry Arizona desert climate. Indoors temperature was maintained around 60F to 80F, while outdoors can vary between 49F to 96F.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

It probably depends on the plant. This brings to mind caraway, quote from Wikipedia:
"Finland supplies about 28% (2011) of the world's caraway production.[12] Caraway cultivation is well suited to the Finnish climate and latitudes, which ensure long hours of sunlight in the summer. This results in fruits that contain higher levels of essential oils than those produced in other main growing areas which include Canada, the Netherlands, Egypt, and central Europe"

Machine Learning

[Anonymous Coward]

Can it grow romaine lettuce without the E.coli?

Re:Machine Learning

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, but if you want E. coli, you can always get some off of frist poster's dick.

Re: Machine Learning

[Anonymous Coward]

You're two hours later than the post you're replying to. How does that taste?

Re:Machine Learning

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you stop crapping in your vegetable garden.

sustainable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay so to "revolutionize farming" what percent of crops need to be grown indoors under artificial light and what is the financial and environmental cost of that? I support progress and things like geothermal greenhouses if they reduce energy used in shipping. If you put a greenhouse partially in ground and use an air intake buried underground you can grow things that would be otherwise shipped in. Even if you supplement the lighting a bit that might be a win but I don't see how this revolutionizes agriculture in a sustainable way.

https://www.usatoday.com/story...

Re:sustainable?

[alvinrod]

If you've got a completely controlled environment, herbicide and pesticide become unnecessary, which would be an immense change. If you're also using other techniques to maximize the yield, nutrition, or other properties while doing that you can probably cut down on waste as well. There are some crops where some of it's left unharvested or just tossed if it doesn't meet some quality characteristics. Being able to localize food production is also something that's fairly important and helps provide jobs in those communities as well. People are pretty disconnected from where their food comes from these days, hence the meme of city kids thinking that meat comes from the grocery store.

Re:sustainable?

[Anonymous Coward]

I almost entirely agree with you but I think you should look into sustainable orchard and food forest practices as they keep the need to spray down too. Like I said I support geothermal greenhouses, because they can be local and less seasonally dependent. As the story about the guy in Nebraska points out the operating costs can be quite low and the way he puts the system together I would think the carbon cost wouldn't be that high. You are right other than some mint, blueberry, strawberries, etc in the window I am way more disconnected from nature than I'd like to be right now, but hopefully not for that long...

Re: sustainable?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a company in Finland that competes with traditional farms even when the farms get government money and they dont . So I would assume it works at least on North with certain plants.

Re:sustainable?

[del_diablo]

Now there is a lot of interesting things here, for academia and research.
But for long term real world usage you will eventually erode the soil, since there isn't a really really big ecosystem supporting it. So then you break the cycle to get more fertile soil. What is useful information will be how soil behaves in a closed system, and what data you can gather that will end up having useful real world applications.

But there is also another use for this: A lot of food is tasteless when you accelerate its growth and then harvest it too early. Lets say herbs like Dill or Ruccola.
Part of the reason why its tasteless is that there is a mismatch between the processes that happens, the day/night cycle plants experience, and how the nutrients are used.
This can be said for all monoculture or industrial agriculture. Or even livestock production.

Re:sustainable?

[TheCastro1689]

This will work in those super towers they'll build in the future where people live and work and do everything inside a building they never leave.

Re:sustainable?

[Aighearach]

The "revolutionary" aspect is that they did a farming experiment where they tried to maximize taste.

Normally farming experiments only try to maximize yield, durability, and resistance to toxins.

Re:sustainable?

[Aighearach]

It is a bit hard to stay alive if you leave the bubble. Are you sure you didn't just sneak in this morning? Wait right here while I have security scan your ID implant.

Basil

[Dunbal]

All the basil plants I ever buy end up dying. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe try watering them?

Re: Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't need water.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

Plants would rather die than serve brainless Republican scum.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the opposite problem: mine refuse to die, even though they are in a large container sitting in the middle of a sun-drenched paved patio.

They grow faster than I can use it. Same with the chives I have in the adjacent pot and the rosemary bush in my front garden. I have oregano growing out of control around the base of my rose bed - smells wonderful.

I've been trying for years, but haven't had any success with coriander (cilantro as you yanks call it).

Re: Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct, they require Gatorade.

Re:Basil

[jemmyw]

Same. I love oregano but its a weed and grows everywhere. I let it flower this year and the bees love it. Basil and thai basil both producing more than I can use. Basil, dill, thyme, sage, marjoram, tarragon, I started from seed and once they germinated planted in the garden and they required no real care except trimming for use.

I've made pesto with basil, thats quite fun. Drying it isn't as fun, you have to plan ahead a little because the best result was height of summer. And then I was too lazy to go outside and get fresh stuff and used all the dried stuff up instead of saving it for winter.

Re: Basil

[sodul]

like out the toilet?

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

Cilantro is coriander leaves. Coriander is the plant. Coriander spice is usually only the ground seeds. Cilantro is a Spanish word, not a "yanks" idiosyncrasy and quite ignorant of you to assume so.

All the herbs you listed are often treated as edible ground cover, so your result is no surprise. Others include lavender and thyme. The last is the most virulent to competitors.

Re:Basil

[religionofpeas]

Start with rosemary, much easier to keep alive (plenty of sun, let it dry before watering). Then try thyme and oregano.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

this is actually so silly that is becoming funny. Is this your goal?

Re:Basil

[_merlin]

Are they getting enough sun and water? Is the climate suitable? I found that on the north coast of NSW (high humidity, hot summers, mild winters, no frosts, high rainfall) I could grow basil effortlessly. The plants thrived and grew huge with minimal care. However in Melbourne (less humidity, less rainfall, colder winters, occasional frosts) the basil plants wouldn't grow anywhere near as big and required a lot of care or they'd die.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

Try to water the plant from below, putting the water not in the earth but in the container below the vase.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

The Basil plants you get at the grocer's is made to be turned into food rather quickly. It's been very quickly grown and has filled out it's pot and you'll struggle giving it sufficient water because of that. Either thin the plant considerably after buying or split it into different pots. You'll still need to water it pretty much every day.
 

Re:Basil

[Krakadoom]

Rosemary is not easier, unless you have very specific environmental conditions where you live. Ie. hot and dry mostly. Rosemary hates getting it's roots wet and will die quickly that way. Which applies to most temperate areas.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

trying planting outside and doing nothing. I have a few that are super hardy, can't kill them.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

All the basil plants I ever buy end up dying. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Mine did well and thrived so far. The trick is plenty of sunlight. In winter they do rather poorly and shed all their leaves and die out because of lack of it. So use the plant lamp (blue and pink LEDs), as bright a one as you can afford and give it during daytime. I have an automated switch with a timer for daytime lighting.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

We have the same problem with our basil. Grows way too fast to use it all, so we make pesto and freeze cubes of it that we can break out all winter.

Cilantro is easy once you realize it needs constant harvesting. The second it starts to get leafy, start cutting. If you don't, it will start to flower. If you see flowers, unless you want to get the actual coriander seeds, cut that stem. It'll grow back with more leaves. It's an immensely fussy plant unless all you want is the seeds for spice production. That's way too easy to achieve.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

Don’t pick the biggest leaves near the bottom of the plant. It uses these to stay alive. Most people tend to pick the biggest leaves thinking the smaller ones will grow more.

Re:Basil

[Aighearach]

I love oregano but its a weed

I love oregano, but my wife thought it was a weed and plucked it, so now I'm eating it dried from a plastic can.

I'm just glad the thyme was too difficult to pull up.

Luckily she's Thai so I can at least grow basil safely.

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

OP here. I lived in the US for a few years and it was always called cilantro, even when buying live plants from greengrocers. Always puzzled me why you call the seeds coriander, but not the plant.

It's you yanks have it all messed up, just like with your pronunciations of basil and oregano. Can you imagine Fawlty Towers re-dubbed with "Bayzil!"?

Re:Basil

[Anonymous Coward]

The correct way to harvest basil is to pick the stems off just above where you see two other stems starting to grow.

This forces the plant to put more energy into growing new stems and leaves as the tip of the stem grows into a flower head if left alone and the plant will die after flowering and growing seeds.

Basil is a quick turnover plant. You generally pick three stems off then harvest the whole plant because it will spread too wide and you do succession planting so you've always got new plants coming along.

Tastes better?

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw nothing in the links that showed the plants were *tasted* to see if they were better. Taste is a blend and highly subjective. Run those plants by some professional chefs so we can read their responses.

Re: Tastes better?

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Typical âoeAIâ nonsense story

Re:Tastes better?

[omnichad]

They should have just said tastes "stronger." It would be less false, less controversial, and not all that compelling either.

Re:Tastes better?

[Anonymous Coward]

There was this Florida producer saying that tomatoes does not taste because he was missing of methodology for defining taste.

A simple sandwich should suffice. Some big super-tomatoes from super-markets are juste a representation of it. (Food Inc. film)

Re: Tastes better?

[Aighearach]

Typical âoeAIâ nonsense story

Kids these days with their funny words. I don't even know what âoeAIâ means! And honestly, I'm not even sure how many syllables it has.

Re: Maximize

[Anonymous Coward]

I keep rereading this but I only see three ... ?

Re: Maximize

[Anonymous Coward]

Segregate jewggers.

Verified?

[Anonymous Coward]

This has been confirmed? Or is this just more machine learning is magic stuff.

Re: Maximize

[Anonymous Coward]

Grow more dope!

AGW is the opposite of ML?

[bradley13]

Gee, I never realized that AGW was the opposite of machine learning (ML). Everything bad that happens is blamed on AGW, whether or not it makes any sense. Meanwhile, anything good can be made better with ML.

Burned your hamburger on the grill? Darn that AGW! Enjoyed a good beer with your burnt hamburger? Imagine how much better that beer would taste with a little ML.

Stupid hype is stupid, news at 11:00.

Re: AGW is the opposite of ML?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post is sponsored by AGW

Re:AGW is the opposite of ML?

[Aighearach]

Everything bad that happens is blamed on AGW, whether or not it makes any sense.

Oh, great. Thanks Obama!

(/s)

Pesto? Disgusting but fashionable.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have jet to meet a single person who actually LIKES pesto. Everyone loves it until you ask them one on one. They only "like" it because it is expected of them.

Re: Pesto? Disgusting but fashionable.

[illiac_1962]

I grow basil specifically to make pesto.

Re: Maximize

[Anonymous Coward]

That's only acceptable if you're a Palestinian. Fake news doesn't report on what's happening in the Gaza concentration camp.

Strange tasting process

[sad_]

"The researchers tested the taste of the plants by looking for certain compounds using gas chromatography and mass spectrometry."

instead of really tasting it? it only should taste better theoretically, there aren't any real taste test results that confirm the actual taste is actually better (even though, this is a very subjective thing).

Re:Strange tasting process

[Anonymous Coward]

Because nothing says deliciousness like gas chromatography and mass spectrometry.

Re:Strange tasting process

[Ol Olsoc]

"The researchers tested the taste of the plants by looking for certain compounds using gas chromatography and mass spectrometry."

instead of really tasting it? it only should taste better theoretically, there aren't any real taste test results that confirm the actual taste is actually better (even though, this is a very subjective thing).

Yeah, looks like we have some bullshit going on here. Just because there is more of a compound that has been determined to taste good doesn't mean that it wouldn't be overbearing in larger amounts, or a different ratio to other compounds.

Taste is subjective, but we gotta admit that someone has to taste something to tell what the taste is.

Here's a cooking tip:

If you are wilting cilantro in a saucepan, add a little coconut oil to it. This makes it easier to scrape that crap into the trashcan.

This also works for kale.

Re:Strange tasting process

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have coconut oil or cilantro, but my advice for cooking anything would be : if you're unsure, add oil.

Re:Strange tasting process

[Can'tNot]

Think about that for a minute. Machine learning requires a tremendous number of iterations, with only very small changes between each one. You could do this with human tasters, but in order to measure those small changes accurately you would need a huge number of tasters and plants in order to get your error down to something reasonable.

By first identifying which chemicals tasters want, and then measure those through far more precise means, you can go through those iterations much faster and more efficiently. And then presumably you verify with tasters every once in a while that you're headed in the right direction.

Can it make pasta even more...

[cemysce]

AI-dente?

Re:Can it make pasta even more...

[Aighearach]

No. Corn starch.

Just wait

[jfdavis668]

Soon the pesto will rise up and takes over.

Optimizing thing "improves" thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Because, you know, they might have chosen the worst point the algorithm found instead of the best.

Chef Vs Science

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of the short documentary film on Netflix Chev vs Science: The Ultimate Cooking Challenge (2016). Pits a scientist vs a two Michelin star chef.

Spoiler Alert: The chef made the better food.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80212222

Still IMPERSONATING me JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie"

[Anonymous Coward]

u IMPERSONATE me & also ADMIT u have a /. acct & STALK me by UNIDENTIFIABLE ac https://hardware.slashdot.org/... - YOU got ISSUES.

That's "best ya got"?

u WISH u were ME (as ur POOR imitation = the sincerest form of flattery) WASTING ur life STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anon OR IMPERSONATING me!

APK

P.S.=> I BLOW U AWAY https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... + https://it.slashdot.org/commen... + https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...

Re: Still IMPERSONATING me JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie"

[Anonymous Coward]

Version 3.0++ of APK Hosts File Engine for MacOS and Linux/BSD is coming NEXT WEEKEND!

Machine learning will be used to detect new threats such as trackers. Users will also have the option to report malicious content and update a list of newly identified sites that should be blocked. All of this will be stored in the cloud and distributed to all users with automatic updates. A list of DNS hardcodes will also be stored on the cloud and distributed to all users to maintain a non-poisoned list of frequently used hosts.

Version 3.0++ will be a major step forward for APK Hosts File Engine.

title is inappropriate

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot needs to implement a feature like Reddit where we can add "flair" to the title. In this case [MISLEADING] would be appropriate.

Not much of a bar to cross.

[Anonymous Coward]

Pesto is disgusting.

Great big DUH

[AnalogDiehard]

We needed a special research team and all that computer equipment to tell us what gardeners have known for DECADES? CENTURIES?

When I buy a potted basil plant, there is a tag encouraging plenty of light. Gardening books spell out the care and feeding of all kinds of plants.

Seriously, ALL THAT MONEY AND TIME was spent to do nothing more than reaffirm what we already know. Great big DUH!

I wish I was APK and could host unlimited dicks

[Anonymous Coward]

APK is right
I wish I was him so I can become a professional cum dumpster for truckers and host unlimited dicks.
He can teach me how to write like a serial killer and how to buy derelict houses in the ghetto for a $1.
I desperately need to know how to keep from being institutionalized while suffering from several different mental illnesses.
These are all areas where he is an expert and I want to learn from a true master of these skills.

Genomic selection

[hAckz0r]

Genetic selection with reanimation, rather than just growing conditions, should be worked on as well. Once a plant is sitting on your dinner plate its evolutionary future is very bleak. That plant, no matter how wonderful it tastes to you, is simply an instance in history. A one-off thing of the past. If however, the genomic material could be sampled, saved, and reanimated in the form of a seedling, then the food industry could transform itself from serving the current tasteless cardboard, where every plant is a genomic clone of a single fungal disease resistant plant.

Ever wondered what happened to the best-tasting bananas? Basically, they bread the taste out by breeding fungus resistance in. The growers and marketers let the taste take second place over 'production and packaging'. Once they find a resistant strain that packs and ships well (thick skin) they genetically remove the seeds, clone it in large numbers, and every plant on the plantation becomes an identical-twin seedling. Being able to select even the minor variations in taste, and positively selecting for it, could bring the natural taste back to the gastronomic marketplace.

Ceaseless ignorance spreading...

[argStyopa]

First, every semi-automatic gun = machine gun.
Then every r/c aircraft = drone.
Then everyone claims AI systems when in fact they're just bog-standard (albeit-complex) if-then trees.

Regarding the OP: just crunching data is NOT "machine learning".
(RTFA and even they shorthand 'machine learning' into AI which it truly, truly isn't. Not even CLOSE.) This article fails to explain in any way how this experiment actually uses 'machine learning'. As far as I can tell, it's merely a broadly automated testing system where targeted variables are increased according to a pretty linear relationship of results. Essentially, it's just plain old Gregor Mendel's work, automated. THAT'S NOT MACHINE LEARNING, and it's absolutely nothing to do with AI.
(I've tweeted to Will Knight asking him about both of these questions, and will reply here with whatever he responds.)

Give more Pesto to the People!

[Anonymous Coward]

All we have to do is to genetically modify the sun to shine for 24 hours a day to make more pestio, great tasty pesto.

Re:Give more Pesto to the People!

[bugs2squash]

if it's going to shine all day may as well make them 36 hour days, get 50% more pesto per day.