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Ethiopian Airlines Crew Followed Procedures Before Boeing Max Crash, Early Report Says (latimes.com)
The pilots of a doomed Ethiopian Airlines jet followed all of Boeing's recommended procedures when the plane started to nose dive but still couldn't save it, according to findings from a preliminary report released Thursday by the Ethiopian government. From a report: The plane crashed just six minutes after taking off from Addis Ababa, killing all 157 people on board. The report, based on flight data and cockpit voice recorders on the Boeing 737 Max 8, was not released in full. Boeing declined to comment pending its review of the report on the March 10 crash. The Max 8 has been under scrutiny since a Lion Air flight crashed off the coast of Indonesia under similar circumstances in October. Thursday's revelations raise questions about repeated assertions by Boeing and U.S. regulators that pilots could regain control in some emergencies by following steps that include turning off an anti-stall system designed specifically for the Max, known by its acronym, MCAS. Investigators are looking into the role of MCAS, whose functions include automatically lowering the plane's nose to prevent an aerodynamic stall. The Max has been grounded worldwide pending a software fix that Boeing is rolling out, which still needs to be approved by the Federal Aviation Administration and other regulators. Further reading: Flawed Analysis, Failed Oversight: How Boeing, FAA Certified the Suspect 737 MAX Flight Control System.
should have bought AirBus
Remove regulations and let the free market manage itself. Gotta make profits next quarter!
They find out that some completely different bug causes the MCAS override to stay on even if you shut it off.
Either that or that it is susceptible to external control.
If you're a Boeing shareholder, I'd advise to get out now, or prepare to bend over and grab your ankles. This will be the biggest lawsuit and settlement ever seen in the country. And due to the broad mix of people slaughtered on the doomed plane thanks to Boeing's poor management decisions, they probably will be coming in from all over the globe.
Boeing should have been more honest and named and sold this plane as the 737 Deathtrap. At least potential customers would have known what they were getting into.
So, to summarize:
1. Boeing self-certified that pilots certified in type did not require additional training. (Prior to the recent deregulation, they weren't allowed to self-certify.)
2. Pilots had to break out the manual during an emergency to properly control a system they were not trained to use.
3. The system either did not disengage properly, or else it reengaged automatically, contrary to well-established norms for this aircraft type.
Boeing screwed up, but it also happened because of relaxed oversight. The previous level of oversight seems more appropriate.
Perhaps the FAA Administrator who made these changes should be forced to resign. This administration has had enough turnover that the President should be capable of appointing new leadership quickly.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
I'd like to RTFA, but there's no link to it. There's no link to the source of the quotation.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
The word "Report" has such an authoritative tone. According to the report...
And then you read who wrote the report. Of course they would conclude that their country, their people, their pilots were not at fault.
You see this legal positioning stuff play out over and over.
And all you can do is try to backpedal and say, no, the Ethiopian government isn't a reliable authority on the correct operation of a Boeing airplane. Then the argument goes to, well then who is?
The AD which went out after the Lion Air Crash said disable the MCAS using cutoff switches. What it did not consider is that if the plane is already nose down then the aerodynamic forces are too strong to use the manual wheels to make it nose up. The AD should have specified use your electric trim yoke switches to make the trim up and then cut out the electric trim so MCAS cannot make it nose down again.
Also why is the MCAS triggering 6 minutes into a flight. Takeoff by definition is close to stall. It should be off during takeoff. If this plane cannot takeoff without MCAS then this plane is not safe. This is not a fighter jet where the pilot can eject if the software screws up or the plane goes unstable.
**Life is too short to be serious**
I was in the Navy aboard an aircraft carrier. I worked on the avionics but never serviced or knew about the anti-stall systems.
That said, I do not recall two blades on either side of the nose cones.
It sounds clunky to me. Shit that sticks out is subject to damage. Apparently, the two blades could be out of sync. There is a "double-vote yes," system that indicates when the blades are not reporting the same conditions, and a "disagree," warning light Boeing apparently provided as an "in-app," purchase.
Small-revenue airlines did not opt for the expansion pack and didn't get the fucking memo as to how to deal with a cray cray "AI" system that can fly the goddam plane better than a human.
"Stall," has a well-established definition and whatever method of detection works on other airlines is not the one Boeing uses.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Yeah, next time make sure you only have poor idiots that can't afford good lawyers in the crashing planes. In other words, if you skirt the security regulations, build all-coach planes.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Nah, that's just a side effect of profit maximization. Corporations don't want to kill people. That's bad for business. There's fewer customers, and what's worse, fewer people competing for jobs so you might have to pay a living wage at some point even if you kill too many of them.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
U.S. Air Force rejects Boeing's KC-46A aerial tankers
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019/04/03/US-Air-Force-again-stops-acceptance-of-Boeings-KC-46A-aerial-tankers/6401554265675/
The reason? The planes had foreign object debris in closed compartments.
If a Boeing assembler dropped a tool or peice of trash and couldn't reach it - no problem. Just cover it up and pretend you never saw it. It's just a military fuel tanker.
This is the second time. The 1st time, Boeing said they put corrective action in place, but trash/tools are still being found sealed in the body of the plane.
Maybe Boeing is trying to imitate Harbor Freight. Free Tools with every KC-46A.
Increased mortality is not how I want to improve the job market, maybe at the executive level...
c6gunner?
full plane of UN staff this time around.
Wow, you sound like a big gay baby.
Nah, that's just a side effect of profit maximization. Corporations don't want to kill people. That's bad for business. There's fewer customers, and what's worse, fewer people competing for jobs so you might have to pay a living wage at some point even if you kill too many of them.
Corporations don't care if they kill people, nor do they care if they break the laws, if the dollar costs are less than the revenue gained. That said, killing people does impose a cost on the corporation, especially if the corporation is found to be at fault.
APK made you EAT YOUR WORDS in 100's of upmods on hosts and slashdot users liking his program https://games.slashdot.org/com...
ATTEMPTED TO RAPE A CLASSMATE
FFS, Ford wasn't his classmate, her accusation was messy at best and have changed over time on top of it.
It's a shame that the market position of Boeing and Airbus has very little to do with capitalism and everything to do with cronyism.
It could be argued that problems like this are a lack of competition. What else are you going to fly, a Yugo?
If you're a Boeing shareholder, I'd advise to get out now, or prepare to bend over and grab your ankles.
This is going to end Boeing as a corporate entity. There is simply too much gross negligence on too many levels, and too much willful lying to get a new aircraft to be accepted as the former type to avoid re-certifying pilots.
This is going to take the company down. However, the remainders may be picked up by someone for pennies on the dollar.
apk must be on break from slobbing trucker knob
You trumptards will not stop lying. Jesus makes you evil.
All Slashdot articles place the link to the right of the headline, next to the little icons.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
It's a shame that the market position of Boeing and Airbus has very little to do with capitalism and everything to do with cronyism.
You say that like "cronyism" sprang up all by itself from the vacuum. Cronyism is the expected result of the operation of a capitalist economy without effective and strong oversight, the result of which operation is always and invariably capitalism taking over politics, democratic or otherwise. The economic mechanisms are also well understood by the economic theory: when investing in bribes and government subversion creates better returns than investing in production, a capitalist will invest in bribery and not in production. This case is a perfect illustration of the phenomenon - it was a lot more effective for Boeing to subvert the certification process than to ensure quality aircraft design. Boeing boss even had the temerity to call Trump and ask that grounding of the dangerous planes be delayed for PR reasons.
The result of the right-wing(nut) policies of oversight removal in the US are well known. Corporations have for a long time had a say over politics that the ordinary citizens don't. Even science says so:
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.
The worst part is that US is exporting this model worldwide, damaging and weakening democratic governments all over the place.
Why is the MCAS needed now? I understand it was there to avoid pilot training, but we are way passed that.
If it can cause issues and you have to turn it off at times why not just remove it and let the pilots do what they are supposed to and push the nose down themselves of they have to.
Of it can stall way too easily and pilots are not enough then still it would mean you have to discontinue the plane not enable MCAS.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Nobody is questioning the real reason why all the recent fatal accidents happen in the third world. It's a whole left brain - right brain thing. People that operate a machine have to think like the machine, not be prayin' to their superstitious golden calf when the galley coffeemaker quits working.
Regardless, Boeing fucked up big time. They suffer all the same management problems responsible for so many disasters, like the space shuttle. And yet, once again, nothing will be learned, and we have the overused *rinse-repeat*. Oh well... c'est la vie.
when investing in bribes and government subversion creates better returns than investing in production, a capitalist will invest in bribery and not in production.
Please be more specific. It's only bribery and corruption when it it is paid to a foreign official. It is protected speech when paid to a domestic politician.
Congress voted itself a monopoly in the taking of graft.
Have gnu, will travel.
They turned it off. Then they turned it on again. Did they get tech support on the line or what?
Have gnu, will travel.
The first link in TFS has me stuck in an infinite loop!
APK's idea of fun is licking the toilet seat at truck stops and standing in front of the mirror naked and punching himself in the balls hoping that he will turn into a real man.
-subie
Please provide factual evidence that ford's testimony was true in anyway considering that no witnesses backed up her claims and her story change more than twice. Also notice that all the other women disappeared afterwards without further investigations.
-Subie
Hyello - dis is Bo-ink technical support.
Vee are calling because airplane is messaging out many nose dive error.
Are you in front of control so that vee can show you deese error?
That wasn't AoA, that was the pitot tubes, which are a completely different system.
Unless there is some tiny print on all those tickets that say, "We're not responsible for crashing planes" or "Liablitily limited to $1M(US), collectible at Boeing Headquarters."
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
No, it was AOA probes. You're thinking about AF 447 which was a pitot problem.
Here's a description of one of the events.
And there never has been any major catastrophes in socialist countries (other than the socialism itself). Sure thing, bud. Just keep smokin' what your smokin' as we watch the Venezualans cooking their pets over trash fires.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
First you argue that oversight will be subverted by cronyism.
Then you claim that oversight is removed by cronyism.
In neither case is capitalism the problem. The problem is businesses seeking to subvert the concentration of power within government.
The worst part is your wilful ignorance that despite some major flaws, the US has been the biggest exporter of democratic governments and liberty that the world has ever seen.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Oh wow, I hadn't heard about that one. Thank you.
Water drowns people. Let's ban it.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
to optimize the system for maximum profit, compromising on safety. Maybe those procedures should be reviewed as well, not just the MCAS specific documentation.
Paying damages for the immediate accidents won't be a big problem. However, the prospect of losing thousands of future orders could be a significant blow to both Boeing and the US economy.
Japan Airlines Flight 123 - a boeing 747 that crashed killing 520 people - remains the deadliest single-aircraft accident in aviation history.
The official cause was botched maintenance by a team of technicians sent to Japan by Boeing.
JAL paid a total of $7.6 million to the victims' relatives in the form of "condolence money".
JAL president, Yasumoto Takagi, resigned.
A JAL maintenance manager and an engineer who had inspected and cleared the aircraft as flightworthy, both committed suicide.
Did you read the preliminary report?
THE PILOTS TURNED THE STAB TRIM BACK ON. The MCAS was unable to do anything for several minutes because the motor that moves the stabilator was TURNED OFF. The preliminary report states that MCAS tried to command nose-down trim, but the stab did not move. Once they turned it back on they put in some nose-up trim. But when they stopped pushing the manual trim switches, the MCAS waited 5 seconds and did what it was programmed to do.
Had they hit the damn trim switches again, IT WOULD HAVE STOPPED. Earlier in the flight, the pilot had overridden MCAS commands by doing precisely that- manual trim stops MCAS commands, and the system pauses 5 seconds, then evaluates again.
the US has been the biggest exporter of democratic governments and liberty
LOL. You must be as indoctrinated as you're stupid and ignorant.
The question whether a corporation cares about a law can be answered by a simple equation: If the revenue for breaking the law is higher than the chance of getting caught times the fine to pay when caught, ignore the law. Then it's just part of the operating cost.
People dying isn't necessarily a no-go either. If you can somehow turn it into a "regrettable oversight", maybe add some human error and then threaten to dump a few thousand unemployed on the streets if you're fined more than the equivalent of a finger waggling and a "no, no, no, naughty corporation!", why bother caring about human lives?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
- No one told them to firewall the throttles. Excessive speed made trimming more difficult.
- No one told them to turn the malfunctioning MCAS back on, which put the aircraft into its final fatal dive.