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Are Phone-Addicted Drivers More Dangerous Than Drunk Drivers? (axios.com)

After crunching data on 4.5 billion miles of driving, road-safety analytics company Zendrive concludes there's a new threat which just last year claimed the lives of 6,227 pedestrians: drivers "under the influence of a smartphone."

The study points out that drunk driving fatalities peak after midnight, while distracted driving happens all day, conluding that distracted driving is now a bigger threat than drunk driving. schwit1 shares this report from Axios: "Phone addicts are the new drunk drivers," Zendrive concludes bluntly in its annual distracted driving study. The big picture: The continued increase in unsafe driving comes despite stricter laws in many states, as well as years of massive ad campaigns from groups ranging from cell phone carriers to orthopedic surgeons. "They hide in plain sight, blatantly staring at their phones while driving down the road," Zendrive says in the study.

And it's a growing problem. Over just the past year, Zendrive, which analyzes driver behavior for fleets and insurers, said the number of hardcore phone addicts doubled, now accounting for one in 12 drivers. If the current trend continues, that number will be one in five by 2022.

The report concludes drivers are 10 percent more distracted this year than last -- and that phone addicts have their eyes off the road for 28% of their drive. Yet when asked to describe their driving, 93% of phone addicts said they believed they were "safe" -- or "extremely safe" -- drivers.

One even insisted that they never texted while driving, "but I like to FaceTime my friends while driving since it makes time go by faster."

170 comments

  1. Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The idiots who cannot let go of their fondleslabs should not be allowed to drive.

    1. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I only look at my texts while stopped at a stoplight, with my phone is a mount not in my hands, and even then I make sure I'm ready to go when the light turns green. Too many people can't even handle that, I've sat through extra lights because of idiots on their phones too many times.

    2. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a dangerous idiot who is putting people at risk with your reckless driving, then. We can only hope you die in an accident sooner, and without harming other people.

    3. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never text and drive. I don't even text from my desk. I literally have to tell people I'll talk to them later. Even then, people still try to get you to text them when you are focusing on important things.

    4. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who were raised to believe they could have and do anything they want without giving anything in return feel entitled to text, drink, and drive.

    5. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In Ontario you'll get ticketed or worse for your behaviour.

      And I'm thankful for that.

    6. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, these people are useful.

      Need a new bumper? Wait at an intersection, where they are supposed to yield. Drive in front of the phone idiot, get free bodywork on their insurance...

    7. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly how is briefly looking at my phone, in a mount, while fully stopped, putting people at risk?

    8. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is there to gain by "briefly looking" that just can't wait until later? What's the likelihood of reading a text that requires immediate action on your part? And if it does, then the 'look' isn't so brief anymore. Isn't it better to just remain alert and observant at intersections even if it's extremely boring; what's the harm in that?

    9. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So you are the problem. Thanks for outing yourself. Just because you are stopped does not mean you can ignore the need for situational awareness.

    10. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is there to gain by "briefly looking" that just can't wait until later? What's the likelihood of reading a text that requires immediate action on your part? And if it does, then the 'look' isn't so brief anymore. Isn't it better to just remain alert and observant at intersections even if it's extremely boring; what's the harm in that?

      So, you can't answer the question? I can remain alert enough to be safe an briefly look at my phone while at a complete stop at an intersection. You don't seem to have a reason to claim it puts myself or others in danger.

      What I 'gain' is the information in that text. I could wait, but there is no reason not to.

      Do you ever read billboards while driving? That would be a whole lot more dangerous a distraction than looking at my mounted phone while at a complete stop. Do you ever adjust your radio or air controls while driving? That also would be a whole lot more dangerous simply because you are doing it while in motion.

    11. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is to be gained is possibly getting a message that changes where he needs to drive.

      A msg "come back, you forgot your" is a lot more important at the beginning of a 1 hour drive than at the end. You can think of many more that is incredibly useful without requiring a reply, if you just thought about it.

      --XYZZY--

    12. Re: Yes. by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      If you phone pivots away or blanks as soon as the car is in motion, it sounds safe enough.

    13. Re: Yes. by dryeo · · Score: 2

      There's still the problem of misinterpreting light changes and such. Common thing I see here is left turn light turns green, traffic in left turn lane starts to move, idiot in next lane also moves straight ahead as he thought the light had turned green. Luckily traffic is usually slow enough that no accident results, just a traffic jam.
      Too often traffic doesn't move on a green as well, due to people not paying attention. Once again more of an irritant which leads to traffic jams.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    14. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, buy blocking the light when it turns ... yes, I know you ignorantly believe you're not ... you're causing traffic problems behind you.

    15. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry but you aren't that important. Any messages for you can wait for when you aren't behind the wheel of a car.

      If you were caught doing what you do here, you would get a large fine and have your licence taken away.

    16. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iâ(TM)m not directing this at you specifically, but one of the things that drives me batshit crazy are the folks who now seem to hope to get stopped at the light so they can look at their phone. They start slowing down slightly even when the light is green, and god forbid it actually turns yellow, then they stop as fast as they can, often too short of the intersection to even trip the sensor that lets the light know there is traffic waiting in that lane. Itâ(TM)s not until they finish looking at their phone and then eventually pull up another 20 feet that the sensor will trigger the light to eventually turn green.

    17. Re:Yes. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      According to the National Safety Council, reading/texting at a stoplight will degrade your attention on the road for the next 30 seconds. So you are more of a danger as you start to move forward when the light turns green.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    18. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you die from cancer you goddamned piece of shit.

    19. Re: Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      insurance has to like you for you to get paid
      some of us here are politically incorrect according to them

    20. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly how is briefly looking at my phone, in a mount, while fully stopped, putting people at risk?

      Since GenY/Z is bit too pretentious to drive stick, you're sitting at a stoplight constantly holding back 2,500 pounds of steel with a few pounds of pressure on a brake pedal. Pedestrians. Cyclists. Emergency vehicles. The plain old unexpected random person walking and looking at their smartphone.

      I can think of a lot of reasons no one needs to be distracted at any time while in control of a car, but hey let's hope your excuses don't harm or kill anyone. Yes dear, I'm sure you're really good at it, and it's just everyone else that sucks and hurts people.

    21. Re:Yes. by Calydor · · Score: 1

      You are failing to keep attention on whether someone is slow to get through the crosswalk, for instance. If all you see out of the corner of your eye is the light turning green and you instantly hit the gas you are going to hit the old lady with the walker right in front of you.

      Drive when you're driving. Keep your eyes on the road, NOTHING on your phone is important enough to take your attention while you are controlling a car. If it is, PULL OVER.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    22. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So let me get this super straight:

      We are assigning responsibility to the driver, and not the vehicle or phone.

      Good.

      Because the vehicle and phone are just lumps of metal, plastic and glass, and are never "bad", but they can be used by a person for actions, purposeful or negligently, that are bad.

    23. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't drive much but this is what I did when I had my car. I've started watching drivers closely since I was hit by a sober driver while on the sidewalk.
      Many drivers who do this take their foot off the break as soon as their eyes are off the road. They start rolling forward into the crossing.
      So make sure that's not you.

    24. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your are just as 'unimportant'. Where I live, I won't get my license taken away, and what your laws state is also unimportant, as well as irrelevant to actual danger imposed, which is essentially none. You can't even come up with a single basis for your argument.

    25. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are failing to keep attention on whether someone is slow to get through the crosswalk, for instance. If all you see out of the corner of your eye is the light turning green and you instantly hit the gas you are going to hit the old lady with the walker right in front of you.

      Meanwhile you who were paying attention to your surroundings and instantly hit the gas when the light turned green still hit the old lady, only they were at the corner of your vehicle instead of right in front. Because hitting the old lady has nothing to do with seeing a green light out of the corner of your eye and everything to do with instantly hitting the gas as soon as the light turns green.

      Take a second to ensure that the intersection is indeed clear and then gradually begin to go through, in case the little old lady happens to be in front of the car to your left/right and is just about to come into your view.

    26. Re:Yes. by Ranbot · · Score: 1

      ...What's the likelihood of reading a text that requires immediate action on your part? And if it does, then the 'look' isn't so brief anymore....

      So, you can't answer the question? I can remain alert enough to be safe an briefly look at my phone while at a complete stop at an intersection. ...

      That's the crux of people's problem with your statement. We have no proof beyond your [AC] word that your admitted distractedness at a stop light would NEVER spill over into distractedness while the car is moving - that an important message you choose to look at when safely stopped would NEVER make you continue reading or respond while the car is unsafely moving. We have no reason to trust your self-diagnosis of your safety, because individuals are terrible at self-diagnosing their own bad habits, as shown by the article where clearly distracted drivers (like FaceTime while driving) think they are very to extremely safe drivers. If you choose to walk on that slippery slope, then others are justified in questioning it that choice.

      That said, I sincerely hope that what you say is true and if it is, then thank you. Drive safe... we all depend on it.

    27. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's extremely boring; what's the harm in that?

      For generation ADHD, a moment of boredom = death.

  2. Yes by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At lease the drunk drivers are doing their best to look at where they are going

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Yes by Snotnose · · Score: 2

      Considering how often during my MERE 10 minute commute from home to work and back again, and I see people screwing with their phones at nearly every light.

      I fail to see the problem with this. The car isn't moving. It's the perfect time to read a message. Assuming of course you put the damned phone away when you start moving again.

      How is it any different from reading a magazine, or turning around to talk to people in the back seat?

      That said, if you get caught texting while the car is moving you should lose your license for a few months. Fark you inconsiderate assholes.

    2. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also depends on how you define drunk. To spot drunk drivers using the legal blood alcohol content limit, you actually need to pull them over and test them. The majority of legally "drunk" people are far from dangerous. In contrast, people screwing with their phones are even easier to spot than moderately drunk drivers. I rarely run across a very obvious drunk, with the slow weave, and other dangerous signs, despite knowing there are plenty of legally drunk people on the road (especially weekend nights). But you can't leave your house without finding erratic phone induced driving.

    3. Re: Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not the perfect time for you to read a message. It's an appropriate time for your car to read it to you in voice however.

    4. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I fail to see the problem with this.

      The problem is that "inconsiderate assholes" fucking with their phones while stopped at a light typically fail to notice when said light changes.

    5. Re:Yes by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Maybe a truly devastating fine of some ferocious amount will get people to think twice.

      You really don't need to make randomly devastating fines. You need consistent reasonable fines. If most intersections had cameras that could catch people with a phone in their hand, and send them a $50-$100 fine, things would change rather quickly.

    6. Re:Yes by epine · · Score: 1

      Considering how often during my MERE 10 minute commute from home to work and back again, and I see people screwing with their phones at nearly every light.

      Few pedestrian fatalities happen with the car at a complete stop.

      I've been known to text "ten mins" to someone I'm about to meet while stopped at a red light (where I arrived early) with my foot firmly planted on the brake pedal.

      I would resent anyone making the presumption that I'm "screwing around" because I glanced down for 5 s. It takes more total attention to break open the spout part of the white plastic lid on most take-out coffee cups (which I've also done while stopped at a red light with my foot firmly planted on the brake pedal).

      Screwing around with your phone after the light has changed can cause others around you to behave differently and this can lead to accidents that wouldn't otherwise occur.

      Do just about anything with your phone while in a moving vehicle is asking for trouble, but then again, once you get into your later years, merely adjusting your focal distance long enough to read any instrument on the dashboard is also asking for trouble (focal length adjustment gets way slower as you age).

    7. Re:Yes by dasunt · · Score: 1

      Few pedestrian fatalities happen with the car at a complete stop.

      How many collisions would be avoided if the driver was alert and checking nearby traffic (including foot traffic) instead of reading or composing a message?

    8. Re:Yes by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      You're affected for up to 27 seconds after you put down the phone. Yes, there is a problem with screwing with your phone at a red light - it impairs you, short term, when the light switches. Which is also a relatively dangerous time (everyone accelerating, potential for late intersection runners, etc).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    9. Re: Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue isn't when they're stopped, so much as going from stopped to going that's an issue.

      They can mistake a green turn arrow for a green light. Or not notice a pedestrian that's illegally still in the crosswalk.

      One time when I was stopped behind a bicyclist he fell over. Had I been on my phone I might have not noticed he was there and run him over.

    10. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see lots of "traffic jam users" they think they're moving as soon as the car in front of them moves. Their reaction time is actually very slow if you watch them and there is a whole line of these fucks going up the onramp and into the street every rush hour.
      There is a good stretch of i5 that is like this every day too. They could play on their phone all the way to work on the trains that pass by several times during their commute.
      I personally think these guys hate their home lives I had a boss who had serious people problem and his home life was a mess. He was always playing it up like he was so proud of his kids and super involved in church. But he never spoke of friends and spent all day buried in the internet at home. Ironically one of his phases was to go home and blog about being a dad.

      He often said his commute was the favorite part of his day.

  3. Texting while driving is not dangerous by JoeyRox · · Score: 4, Funny

    In fact I'm driving to the grocery store as I type this. One thing people fail to reali

  4. Distracted driving is a red herring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Distracted driving gets blamed for all sorts of things. Many accidents are just that: accidents.

    Humans are fallible. We can't be expected to drive 100% of the time "in the zone" like we're piloting an F16 through a hostile airspace. Just not going to happen. So we all have to make reasonable concessions to divide our attention among all the things that matter.

    Myself, I never write texts or respond to emails while driving, I only read them. That kind of thing is a reasonable concession and keeps me and my family/friends safe while allowing me to stay in the loop with work and whatnot. More people need to maintain reasonable concessions.

    1. Re:Distracted driving is a red herring by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Myself, I never write texts or respond to emails while driving, I only read them

      You are part of the problem

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    2. Re: Distracted driving is a red herring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Reading emails just as bad as writing them..
      And apparently in my country having earbuds in connected to a dead phone counts as distracted driving.

      If you can't focus on driving and feel the need to read emails and texts while ferrying your family around, maybe your s.o. should be the one driving

    3. Re:Distracted driving is a red herring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about the other people on/near the road? Are they part of your "reasonable concessions" calculation?

    4. Re:Distracted driving is a red herring by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Myself, I never write texts or respond to emails while driving, I only read them

      You are part of the problem

      Or better stated:

      "Most of the time you are somebody else's problem"

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re:Distracted driving is a red herring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, there's no such thing as an "accident." There's generally a number of factors that contribute to a crash and if any of them were properly addressed you wouldn't have a crash.

      This is why it's so important to not just keep the car properly maintained, but to be a defensive driver that's using good road strategy to see what could happen in the future down the road. And take steps ahead of time to reduce the risks.

      This is something they taught some of when I got my drivers license decades back and it's something that they really focus on when teaching people how to ride motorcycles. The reality is that crashes are rarely, if ever, unavoidable. There's pretty much always something that could have been done to prevent the crash.

    6. Re:Distracted driving is a red herring by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      You don't have to be "in the zone", just keep your eyes on the road where they belong.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    7. Re: Distracted driving is a red herring by dryeo · · Score: 1

      That's how I use my phone when driving, tell the passenger to take care of it. Do need a passenger though.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    8. Re:Distracted driving is a red herring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and, maybe even more important, keep their mind on the road, where it belongs.

  5. How dangerous is that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the standard for "drunk drivers" so close to sober and unimpaired that we criminalize behavior that isn't dangerous? Or less dangerous than tuning the radio or having a conversation with the passengers?

  6. Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck Yes

  7. Of course they are. by rnturn · · Score: 1

    I can get in an accident with someone who's texting -- or otherwise fiddling with their phone -- at any time of day. Drunks drivers are mainly a problem at night. That there are almost certainly many more texters behind the wheel than drunks makes the problem even worse.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    1. Re:Of course they are. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drunks drivers are mainly a problem at night.

      Check out the mid afternoon rush of tipsy housewives trying to make it home from a cocktail lounge lunch during the weekday.

    2. Re:Of course they are. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drunk MILFs you say? Where do all these drunk housewives go to drink? I'm, uh, asking for a friend...

  8. Compared to the other drivers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    E.g. the one's who feel entitled to just keep going even though the light turned yellow and even red well before they entered the intersection? But they're special, and in a hurry, so they just keep going.
    The light's been green for the other direction for a good few seconds but the twits are still sailing through in a parade of three or four red light runners. You don't need a phone to be a menace to other drivers.

  9. Attempting to Drive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Drunk drivers are at least attempting to drive and pay attention.

  10. What about ... by PPH · · Score: 2
    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:What about ... by Misagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pedestrians with their eyes and mind in their phones are mostly a danger to themselves.
      Drivers with their eyes and minds in their phones are a danger to also everyone around them: passengers, other drivers and pedestrians alike.

      --
      "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
    2. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 1

      ... zombie pedestrians?

      Darwinian forces will take care of that.

    3. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 2

      Pedestrians with their eyes and mind in their phones are mostly a danger to themselves.

      I understand your sentiment, but in spite of the laws of physics, in most of USA drivers are crucified (sometimes literally) for hitting a pedestrian.

      As a driver, I can be sent to prison for hitting a pedestrian, therefore pedestrians have a lot of power over me. I fear them, their unpredictability, and disobedience of pedestrian laws.

      It's one of the major factors in why I (finally) got a dashcam.

    4. Re:What about ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In spite of the laws of physics?
      Maybe you want to do the math again for F = m * a and compare the results with the mass and acceleration of a car and that of a human. (spoiler: F_car >> F_human)

      The point being that someone driving a car can send a pedestrian pretty much straight into a coffin. Therefore cars have a lot of power over pedestrians.
      In the light of this it's only fair that those operating heavy machinery ought to have to pay attention to what they do with said machinery in any case.
      Of course there can be some situations where there was no wrong doing on their part and people got hurt.
      So good for you that you got that dashcam.

    5. Re:What about ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > in most of USA drivers are crucified (sometimes literally) for hitting a pedestrian.

      uhhhh... what? A motorist kills a pedestrian & the assumption is that it's an accident.

    6. Re:What about ... by Enigma2175 · · Score: 4, Funny

      in most of USA drivers are crucified (sometimes literally) for hitting a pedestrian.

      Can you show a single instance where a driver was literally crucified for hitting a pedestrian?

      --

      Enigma

    7. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 1

      > in most of USA drivers are crucified (sometimes literally) for hitting a pedestrian.

      uhhhh... what? A motorist kills a pedestrian & the assumption is that it's an accident.

      A huge problem with Internet conversations relates to grandiose thinking, grandiose writing, and grandiose perception. I never said that ALL cases were X or Y. Many ACs read into things, then attack based on their misconceptions.

      Not sure where you live, or what info. you get, but it doesn't sound like you read / watch US news.

      Police frequently charge drivers with vehicular homicide.

      Watch youtube videos of a driver hitting a pedestrian in a city neighborhood, and people coming out in droves to drag the driver out and beat him to death. It happens. I never wrote _ALL_ the time.

      And, pedestrians often get hit by cars, get up, and walk away. Again, youtube is your friend.

      All that said, your post isn't clear so I'm commenting on what I perceive you meant, but by all means, please clarify if I've misunderstood.

    8. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 1

      The point being that someone driving a car can send a pedestrian pretty much straight into a coffin. Therefore cars have a lot of power over pedestrians.

      Pretty obvious to everyone, right? All the more reason I take more care when pedestrian.

      In spite of the laws of physics?

      Maybe you want to do the math again for F = m * a and compare the results with the mass and acceleration of a car and that of a human. (spoiler: F_car >> F_human)

      Specious. Time is the factor. A pedestrian can stop forward motion in less than a second, and/or accelerate out of the car's path MUCH faster than the car can slow down. Try to remember, brakes do not STOP a car- they slow it. It takes time to eventually stop, and it may be too long of a time and the pedestrian gets hit.

      I'm both driver and pedestrian. I do not EVER put my safety in the hands, feet, and attention (or mental state) of a driver.

      In the light of this it's only fair that those operating heavy machinery ought to have to pay attention to what they do with said machinery in any case.

      I just don't understand where you and others like you are going with this. Of course people should take great care. But the greatest care can not save a pedestrian who steps out from behind an opaque object, right into the path of a moving vehicle. Watch youtube vids- hopefully you'll start to understand the timing, mass, momentum, etc.

      Stated another way, all people should take the greatest care to guard their own safety, right?

      Of course there can be some situations where there was no wrong doing on their part and people got hurt.

      I'm not so sure. I think anyone who steps out into the path of moving machinery is stupid. They're risking horrible injury or death, hoping the driver is paying attention, and that they (pedestrian) have judged the vehicle's stopping distance correctly, WITHOUT knowing the stopping distance of said vehicle.

      AND, they're putting drivers at risk of causing sometimes HUGE accidents when trying to avoid hitting pedestrians. Many are dying in those accidents, including many innocent bystanding pedestrians. Again, youtube is your friend.

      I'd bet you drive a fairly small car that stops very quickly If so, that's great, but try driving a box truck in city traffic loaded with bottled water and you might get a feel for the scale of what we're talking about.

      And I can hear your argument now- the trucks need to go slower, and you're right, but when you drive one, you'll realize the trucks would have to go 7 MPH. Spend some time thinking about THAT scenario in a busy city.

      Somewhat sad story: guy ended up okay eventually, but the son of some friends of mine was in college in SC and got hit by a car, broke some bones, in hospital for days, etc., and, somewhat cruelly, got a citation for causing the accident, and had to pay for the damage to the car. I don't know if they took it to court- I would hope a judge would say he's suffered enough. Point is, not all states have the same pedestrian laws. My state's lawmakers need physics (motion dynamics, not statics) lessons.

      Right now, the laws are ridiculous, at least in my state. If a pedestrian is in the marked crosswalk, cars must yield. Makes sense, right? But life is NOT a static picture. It's dynamic- things moving- a timeline. If a car is doing the speed limit of 35 MPH and is 20 feet from a crosswalk, and a pedestrian suddenly decides to step into the crosswalk, the car obviously can not stop in time, so who's at fault?

      So good for you that you got that dashcam.

      Yeah, and I think everyone should have them. On a more personal note, it has given me great peace when driving.

    9. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 1

      in most of USA drivers are crucified (sometimes literally) for hitting a pedestrian.

      Can you show a single instance where a driver was literally crucified for hitting a pedestrian?

      No. I meant it symbolically- a horrible death by an angry mob, no trial. It was a literary enigma. English was always my weakest subject.

    10. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 1

      PS: online people will find ANYTHING they can to pick you apart, including pedantry, even when you're trying to make a really good thought-provoking philosophical point. Please stop the nit-picking.

    11. Re:What about ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean you don't remember drunk Jesus from Alabama? At least I think that's where he was from. Tried to pretend he was drinking water, but it turned out to be wine.

    12. Re:What about ... by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

      Pedestrians with their eyes and mind in their phones are mostly a danger to themselves.

      I think this is part of the reason motorcycle insurance is so much cheaper than that for a car....the rider is more of a risk to himself than someone in a standard vehicle.

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    13. Re:What about ... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Pedestrians with their eyes and mind in their phones are mostly a danger to themselves.

      As are drivers who refuse to wear seat belts. And yet we make it an offense not to wear one.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    14. Re:What about ... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      If you hit them when they have the right of way, yes - you should be fined and go to prison for serious injuries or death. If they step out in mid-block between two parked cars? I am quite confident you will NOT be cited for the accident. The crosswalk is their domain, they rule supreme there.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    15. Re: What about ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having been hit by a motorcycle that was barely moving, I can tell you that they still hurt.
        I had a tire shaped welt on my add for a solid week.

      That being said motorcycle do less damage to other things than a car would.

    16. Re:What about ... by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, speed limits are definitely way too high, you're right about that. 20mph in cities is plenty. Then you have a lot longer in which to notice people walking across the road, your brakes have much less work to do in order to bring the vehicle safely to a stop, and if you still fail to respond in time you'll do much less bodily harm to somebody.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    17. Re:What about ... by ahodgson · · Score: 1

      Motorcycle insurance is way more expensive than car insurance here. Driving a motorcycle is very dangerous, and often ends in expensive injury and disability claims.

    18. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 1

      Please tell me if you're being serious or sarcastic. Sometimes sarcasm is obvious, and I can be as sarcastic / sardonic as anyone, but sometimes it's not obvious, so hopefully you'll clarify.

    19. Re:What about ... by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      Serious? No. I don't seriously expect really safe speed limits to be set up by any democracy that has so many motorists in it. But I do think that's what we ought to do. As a civilisation, we are killing our own children at an appalling rate, just so that motorists can catch up to the back of the next long line of stationary traffic a few seconds faster. In town, slow down.

      Look at the scenario you described. A car doing the speed limit towards a marked crosswalk... it's such a familiar scenario that we forget to be horrified. Think about what we're doing here. We have footpaths across the street specifically for people to walk across. And then we have motorists driving straight at those footpaths, at such speed that it would literally be a crime to go any faster at all, at such speed that they couldn't possibly stop should anyone suddenly walk out on the path. These motorists expect everyone else in the world to pay attention, to stay out of their way. God forbid they themselves should slow down! They're 'doing the limit' and that makes it OK.

      That limit is obviously much too high. It should come down. Twenty is plenty.

      Then let's redesign those footpaths. At the moment there are raised paths either side of the street, and when the path runs across the middle of the street it is lowered. For the convenience of motorists, of course; otherwise they might have to slow down. Well, let them slow down! The path across the street is a pedestrian walkway just like the paths either side, so let's have it at the same height, for the convenience of people using wheelchairs, people pushing infants in prams, people with mobility issues. We'll put a gentle slope to either side of the path so that it isn't a nasty bump for motor traffic. Well, I mean - so that it isn't a nasty bump if the motor traffic is moving at a safe speed.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    20. Re:What about ... by bobby · · Score: 1

      Thank you- great reply. Despite years of trying to accumulate wisdom, I'm torn. You're absolutely correct- it's a complex situation and there are no clear answers.

      I may be one of very few people who notice long-term trends, but I've noticed over the past 30+ years that people are driving faster and faster. 55 MPH 6-lane highway near me is minimum 70 MPH and usually 80+. I'm not saying it's okay; I'm just saying it's fact.

      As I think I wrote above, when I'm pedestrian I prefer being in charge of my safety. I did an Outward Bound years ago and they taught and stressed we need to be in charge of our own safety, pay attention, stay alert, think things through, etc. This was out in wilderness- no cars anywhere around. Also, my mom continually infused in me that cars and streets are not safe, look both ways before crossing the street, never play in the streets, etc. It worked.

      I think allowing people to walk out in front of a moving vehicle, _expecting_ the vehicle to see them in time, see them at all, or to be able to judge the vehicle's stopping distance, is govt. putting people in jeopardy.

      I'm afraid that the only solution is full out traffic signals at all pedestrian crossings.

      That aside, one possibility is some kind of marker on the street that would be at some average stopping distance from pedestrians. But again, that wouldn't account for distracted drivers (a huge problem no matter what), vision blocked by a large vehicle, or a heavy vehicle with a significantly longer stopping distance.

      An afterthought: a govt. can make all the laws it wants to, and some people are going to break those laws- either intentionally or negligently. It doesn't seem right that one has a huge advantage over the other.

  11. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by jhecht · · Score: 2

    Stand at a busy corner and watch the drivers making left turns who are clutching a phone. It's scary how many I see.

  12. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's not what objectively means.

    1/3 of deaths being alcohol related is terrifying. It means that if we could get people to stop drinking and driving the numbers of fatalities would more or less instantly drop by a third. Considering how many different things there are that cause fatal car crashes, having something make up a third of it is a pretty big deal.

    Other common causes are inattention, mechanical failure, animals, weather conditions, exhaustion, other drug impairment and I'm sure there's others.So,even with such a short list, it's fairly clear that driving while impaired due to drunkenness should be a high priority in terms of enforcement.

  13. Standing offer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hands off the phone and you win. Otherwise prepare to get royally ass fucked in court and in jail.

  14. BAN ALL VEHICLES :-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    * They pollute (including production of batteries on pure EVs, which is a very bad one btw)
    * They can kill people inside and outside of the car, including children! Think of the children!
    * Drunks can't drunk drive if you have no vehicles
    * Can't have distracted driving either
    * Robbers use them to ram buildings and get away and things!

    Cars obviously are pretty bad things! And won't politicians think of all the childrens lives that would be saved if they were banned! I'm so glad we have a sensible world! Lets ban cars today!*

    * This is a sarcastic comment. Unfortunately I know people exist that are stupid enough to take the above seriously. Those people shoud consider 're education'.

  15. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's not what related means. You need to understand the difference between "alcohol related" and "caused by alcohol." They are not at all the same thing. Suppose I have a glass of wine with dinner (and am still under the legal limit.) While driving home, I stop at a red light. As I'm sitting there waiting for the light to turn green, someone who has not been drinking plows into my rear end and knocks me into the stream of passing traffic. My car is struck by one of those vehicles and I am killed. They perform my autopsy and detect alcohol in my system. I died in an alcohol related automobile accident.

  16. Especially beware of phone-addicted drivers... by demon+driver · · Score: 1

    ... who are also drunk!

  17. Yes by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Considering how often during my MERE 10 minute commute from home to work and back again, and I see people screwing with their phones at nearly every light.

    It's a major problem. Enforcement of laws needs to take it up a notch and the fines need to be severe. People are not learning a goddamn thing.

    Maybe a truly devastating fine of some ferocious amount will get people to think twice. They're not right not.

  18. It's quantity by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    Generally speaking most people are not drunk all day long. But texting happens all day long

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  19. Makes you wonder about GPS by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative
    If you look at the U.S. traffic fatality rates (orange and red graphs are the relevant ones), the recent big decreases in fatality rate coincided with:
    • Making seatbelts mandatory equipment on all vehicles (1968).
    • Decrease in travel due to the Arab oil embargo and recession (1973-1975).
    • Making seatbelt use mandatory (late 1980s to early 1990s)).
    • Decrease in travel due to the recession following the housing bubble burst (2008-2009).

    Since 1995, if you factor out the 2008-09 recession, there's been a continued slow decline in fatality rate. The dip during the 2008-09 recession also seems disproportionately large compared to past recession-linked dips. The 1973-75 recession happened at nearly 2x the fatality rate, so you would expect its dip to be 2x as large. But the 2008-09 dip is nearly the same absolute size. (The post-recession rebound after 1973-75 is nearly 2x as large.)

    NHTSA has been claiming credit for this decrease, citing improved crash safety testing and standards. But I wonder if it's more the effect of GPS becoming commonplace to where it's now ubiquitous in all new cars, and people whose cars don't have GPS navigation just use their phones. In the days before GPS, it was common to drive with a folded map on your steering wheel, trying to figure out where you were and how to get to your destination. Way more dangerous than texting while driving IMHO.

    1. Re:Makes you wonder about GPS by geekmux · · Score: 2

      I'm sorry, but you cannot accurately measure this problem with mere fatalities.

      Seat belts. Air bags. 5-star safety ratings on smaller cars because of doors being more metal than glass. We've come a long way with car safety, which is exactly why fatalities should not be the lone metric to determine if we've managed to get better with our overall safety.

      The "paper map" problem was restricted to the fraction of people on the road who were using one. Most drivers knew where they were going most of the time. Today we use mapping software and GPS just to show us traffic, so even those who know where they're going are using smartphones behind the wheel. As a result, we will ultimately kill more people trying to open and program navigation apps than paper maps ever did. Did we have some magazine readers behind the wheel before? Sure. Do we now have the majority of drivers distracted with some form of social media or streaming entertainment behind the wheel? Yes, we do. This isn't just about numbers. It's about public acceptance of dangerous behavior, as in the old "everyone is doing it" bullshit excuse.

      And we're sitting here talking about how distracted driving is eclipsing drunk driving. I'd hold off on those "way more dangerous" comments regarding the past. We may not be as deadly on the roads today, but that is not because the idiot behind the wheel is acting any safer. Look at the other traffic metrics to see how bad we really are now.

    2. Re:Makes you wonder about GPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you explain the 2015 (10%) and 2016 (5%) increase in fatalities?

    3. Re:Makes you wonder about GPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We may not be as deadly on the roads today, but that is not because the idiot behind the wheel is acting any safer.

      I've seen someone drive while eating a plate of spaghetti and meatballs with a fork.

  20. Prediction: We're in the 1960s again on this by bjdevil66 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Except instead of willful ignorance on drunk driving ("Get off our backs - everybody does it, and it's not that dangerous,"), it's the selfish "phone drunks".

    Like drunk drivers, they're really easy to spot. They subconsciously drive a little slower while (in any lane). They fade in and out of their lanes - especially on freeway curves. They do it with extra good posture (perhaps they think that helps them navigate safely?) The worst ones are the ones holding their phones up in front of their faces and talking at them, trying to watch the road with peripheral vision - with no shame.

    After a few more high profile deaths and political pressure, and a few of those "after school special" movies about cell phone driving killing children, we'll see an overly strict set of punitive laws that nail cellphone users while they drive (by the 2030s).

    Maybe driverless technology will finally be the real solution for those who have to be able to "to FaceTime my friends while driving since it makes time go by faster." (Oh man... And least she was honest. And yeah, $100 says it was a she (under 25). Most dudes would never admit to that, and only someone that young would be that vain and foolish about life...)

    1. Re:Prediction: We're in the 1960s again on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its a sign of the times. People can't curb their "smart" phone addiction for a short while.

  21. No.... because phones can be used hands-free by mark-t · · Score: 2

    And at least in principle, talking on a hands-free phone is not going to be *significantly* different from talking with a passenger in the back seat of car. Some differences may exist due to a passenger possibly being able to react to what is going on around the car as well, but I expect that these would be relatively minor, particularly since visibility from the back seat is generally reduced compared to where the driver sits.

    1. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by DCFusor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are wrong about this, sorry. There's a huge difference between a hands-free phone and someone in the vehicle, whose own life is at stake and who has at least a little situational awareness. A sales droid pretending to be in his office while actually at a dangerous intersection can't say "hold on a sec" - while with a passenger, there is simply no need for that. When driving around with some of my employees, they even developed a system to help the driver at dangerous spots, say turning left across traffic at a nearly blind intersection. The person in the passenger set would monitor traffic coming from that direction and say "green, green green" or "red red red" - idea borrowed from one of the hotshots movies - as it was his own butt on the line if the driver missed a suddenly appearing car from that direction while trying to also look the other way.
      I have a car with a built in hands-free phone. I learned this quickly, the person on the other end can't see you and doesn't know when to shut up, at the very least, or why you might suddenly need to pay full attention. I quit using it other than to order pizza from a custom place I'd be passing on my way home.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    2. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

      If you've ever dialed in to a meeting where most of the other people are together in a conference room, you'd realize that there is in fact a HUGE difference between physical presence and a phone link.

      To compensate for the disadvantage of getting only few percent of the bandwidth and visual cues that the others have, you have to use a large amount of mental energy to construct and maintain a model of what's going on. (Even so, you usually end up being the low man on the totem pole in the meeting.)

      The same applies to any phone call, whether on speakerphone or not. Much of the extra mental energy used to maintain the phone communication gets deducted from your driving ability

    3. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by DCFusor · · Score: 1

      I'd mod this up had I not posted as myself already. Thanks for adding to and helping make my point!

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    4. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by mark-t · · Score: 0
      Perhaps you had failed to notice that I said "in the back seat".

      Often a person in the back seat has a negligible view of what is in front of the vehicle.

      And of course, it is particularly unlikely that children are going to be paying much attention to the road either.

      Or do you think that a parent shouldn't ever talk to their children while they are driving?

    5. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have personally noticed that when entering fast-moving and/or contested traffic area where I need to make critical decisions about how close to follow, which late to be in, while talking on the phone (always hands-free via car audio), my ability to process the conversation and think critically is noticeably impaired. Sometimes I have to just tell the other person "hold on, I have to change lanes, get off at this exit, etc". Maybe I'm just dumb though... :)

    6. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      Or do you think that a parent shouldn't ever talk to their children while they are driving?

      I know I have used the words "keep quiet for a minute, I need to concentrate" to my kids in the back seat. You can't say that as easily when you're talking to your boss on the phone.

    7. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When my wife and I were dating, she got rear ended by someone yelling at her kids in the back seat. Totalled her car. Trunk ended up in the back seat.

    8. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by mark-t · · Score: 2

      Actually, yes you can... or else your boss is a dick. Maybe not using those exact words, but something just as communicative can still be effective. Presumably, you have a boss that wants you to continue to be alive, so I'm not sure why telling your boss you need to concentrate on driving due to some presumably atypical road or traffic conditions should be a problem. Something like "hold on a sec, I need to concentrate" isn't disrespectful at all. If you let the person on the other end know at the beginning of the call that you are driving, they should already be clued in to the possibility from the beginning that you may need to disengage from the conversation without prior warning because of something that is happening on the road, and so this kind of terseness should not be an issue.

      Sometimes, I might also add a "I'll call you back when things settle down" if things are really bad and I don't know how long it will take to get back to normal.

      If your boss can't handle the fact that you can't necessarily talk to him while you are driving, you need to find another job because that boss clearly does not care if you are dead or alive.

    9. Re:No.... because phones can be used hands-free by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Leaving aside that I'm pretty sure I said "talk to", not "yell at"... in your particular case, and do not take this in any way to mean that I diminish it or absolve the driver of the vehicle behind you of any responsibility, it was not actually fact that the driver was saying something. regardless of the decibel level, to somebody in the back seat that caused any significant interference with her concentration, but really her emotional state that did so.

  22. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

    Over here accidents are considered to be alcohol-related if the driver is over the legal limit, and if the accident is deemed to be caused or exacerbated by the intoxication (in order words: not an accident that would have happened if the driver were sober). Of course the latter point isn't always clear, in which case they'll err on the side of it being DUI-related.

    As for phone use while driving, statistics do show that hey have caused a massive increase in accidents, but the actual accidents in this case are almost all rear-enders and other more or less serious fender benders; deaths caused by driving while on a cellphone are rare. I see most distracted drivers on the highways rather than in areas with cyclists or pedestrians, so I wonder how they arrived at this figure.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  23. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you totally banned Alcohol, that would still leave 66% (the vast majority) of traffic deaths.

    Banning alcohol would ot stop people from drinking and driving. It would stop them from drinking legally, and then driving.

  24. Not Just Dangerous by kackle · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sometimes dangerous, but frequently "in the way". I can tell a phone user as I approach from behind before I can directly see them using it: He's the one who's driving slower than everyone else, weaving out of the lane, or who doesn't see that the light has turned green, causing others to get caught by the red light - basically wasting everyone's time due to their selfish habit.

    Fed up one day, I held the horn at one before she finally looked up at me (ignoring horns, really?). I pretended to text in midair so she could see me - she flipped me off... At least I know she can use more than her thumbs.

    1. Re:Not Just Dangerous by bobby · · Score: 1

      Yup, similar experiences and observation for me. They get very zoned-in to the phone. I'm too focused on driving and always have been, so I don't even understand how someone can focus _more_ on something else.

      Besides wasting time (and essentially confining a person in traffic), the green-light sitters are adding to atmospheric carbon (although many cars and hybrids are shutting the engine off at stops, and electric cars obviously cause minimal carbon sitting still.)

      What I observe is very slow reactions when people are on phones. And it's not necessarily texting- some are just swiping through facebork, twitter, instagram, or whatever.

      I'll usually first give a very short toot on the horn, but many don't respond, so then it's going to be a much longer one, which usually causes a "flip off".

      Someday I might have the opportunity to use my dashcam video in court, so idiots, be careful who you "flip off". Lewd gesture added to inattentive driving, impeding traffic, and whatever else I can think of.

    2. Re:Not Just Dangerous by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

      > basically wasting everyone's time due to their selfish habit.

      Yep, it can be especially harrowing if you're waiting for them to get out of the way so you can take a shot at that M4A2E8 that's just sitting in the open.

      Oh, wait, that's World of Tanks. Sorry.

      That extra second or two at a light (even multiplied by 5 or 8) doesn't seem that critical most times. Often, I'll wait that extra second or two myself, just to be sure no bozo on a cell phone is going to run the recently-changed light.

    3. Re:Not Just Dangerous by kackle · · Score: 1

      It's often a few seconds from what I've seen.

      There's a short light at our industrial park - a few seconds is about half of the green arrow time, and that is more than a few cars that can get through or not get through the 2-minute light. (And this is how we get more road rage too.)

  25. Explicit straw man. You left out "totally". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The OP's point is predicated on "totally" banned alcohol, yet you are talking about an unqualified banning.

    Do some introspection: Why did your mind feel comfortable to remove this word?

    1. Re:Explicit straw man. You left out "totally". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The OP's point is predicated on "totally" banned alcohol, yet you are talking about an unqualified banning.

      Do some introspection: Why did your mind feel comfortable to remove this word?

      Because it is irrelevant. A "total" ban doesn't stop people from illegally making and illegally consuming alcohol.

  26. distracted driving of all sorts is a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People focus on phone usage and the mind boggling edge cases where people were caught doing things like watching TV while driving, but really a huge percentage of accidents overall are caused by other, far harder to police, causes of distraction.

    For example one study found that monkeying with the radio, climate and other car controls is the leading cause. That was followed by distractions from passengers, particularly when a parent has kids in the car. For all the push to use wireless headsets or in-car phone audio systems (instead of talking on the handset), just plain talking on the phone, regardless of method, was also near the top. IIRC, texting was actually fairly far down the list.

    On a similar counter-intuitive note, multiple studies have found that driving while sleep-deprived, even people that have had only one "bad night" and missed a few hours off their regular sleep schedule, suffer a drop in driving performance equal to someone just over the legal limit for alcohol in the USA (0.8).

    These things are why regardless of whether a society of nothing but fully autonomous vehicles is possible, I am totally behind the idea of having a society of nothing but vehicles with crash avoidance/warning systems, automatic braking, automatic lane maintenance, rear obstacle detection and so on. Those things are absolutely achievable with the current state of technology at a reasonable cost and even if they aren't "perfect', any significant reduction in accidents would be worth it.

  27. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2

    As for phone use while driving, statistics do show that hey have caused a massive increase in accidents, but the actual accidents in this case are almost all rear-enders and other more or less serious fender benders;

    Well, except for my previous vehicle...t-boned by a teenage texter cruising through a red light at ~60mph. Rolled me right over on the roof, totaled truck.
    And it wasn't a 'last second red thing. Rather, she had a full 10 seconds of red light, with no one looking out the window.

    Luckily, neither of us were seriously hurt. The only real damage was to my wallet, for a replacement vehicle.

  28. No by vipvop · · Score: 1

    I'm reading this on my phone as I'm driving right now, pretty easy to multi-task actually

  29. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by Christopher+Fritz · · Score: 4, Informative

    I won't even cross when there are cars in the right-hand lane at a corner unless the driver has fully stopped at the corner and looked right at me (so I know they know I am there). This even applies to when I have the signal light to cross (as opposed to no traffic lights), because I could be stepping out into the street and still have someone speed up to the corner, slow a little, then turn and pass right in front of me.

    Plenty of people slow down as they reach the corner, while looking at the phone by their lap, glance up to the left to ensure there's no oncoming traffic, then look back down and make their right-turn without looking for pedestrians. Since I don't drive, I get in a lot of walking, and see this all the time.

  30. No! by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    First reason is that Betteridge's law of headlines says so
    Second reason, you can't reason with drunks, they are either tired or aggressive and can't follow directions.

    Also, phone-junkies can follow a conversation an don't go ballistic if you tell them that they just Instagrammed one too much. If all else fails, you can send him a message on his phone, that will get his attention.

  31. No. What a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not even close.

  32. Mythbusters already tackled this by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    The Mythbusters did an episode on this several years ago. The short answer is yes, futzing around on your phone is just as dangerous (or close to it) as driving drunk. So don't do it, moron.

    And also, on a related note, to my old roommate: No, weed doesn't make you a better driver. That's why we always hid your keys, idiot.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Mythbusters already tackled this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It got a lot worse with touch-screen smartphones (iPhone and later). With a dumb phone I was able to type SMS while looking at the road (multi-tasking, but still far less distracting). Calls could be answered without taking eyes off road. Now, for answering, you need to slide some crap on the screen. This is very bad for road safety.

  33. Try Guys Test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Try Guys did a series that involved driving drunk, high, sleep deprived, and while using their phone. Sleep deprived and using their phones were the worst.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSpF9abRmFbZumbvzc3arbDxi5lQjyMB7

  34. No way by DogDude · · Score: 1

    In the days before GPS, it was common to drive with a folded map on your steering wheel, trying to figure out where you were and how to get to your destination. Way more dangerous than texting while driving IMHO.

    I don't know a lot of people who stared at paper maps while driving. You'd look at it, figure out where to go, and then drive.

    I do see people staring at their GPS while driving every single day.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:No way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, with a map, you figured out where you were going, could see the big picture at once, and maybe referenced it here and there while driving. One would actually look at the road signs for where to go. Now people have no idea where they are going and pay more attention to their little phone or navigation unit than the signs on the road. That alone causes them to do all sorts of stupid and dangerous stuff.

    2. Re:No way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd be surprised. My mother insisted on looking at a map instead of writing down exit numbers, thus we missed our intended route and had to take another.

    3. Re:No way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know a lot of people who stared at paper maps while driving. You'd look at it, figure out where to go, and then drive.

      ... step 17: The third road left after that small town.
      Oh crap, what was step 12 again?

      Before I had a GPS, I used to print out pages with parts of the route. Somwhere between siz and ten pages with about three turns on each page, so I could reference them quickly.

  35. Re: Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you are ignoring pedestrian accidents that are mentioned prominently in this article. Yes rear enders have increased but so have car person and car bike accidents. Those are obviously much more dangerous.

  36. Re: Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My brother almost lost his leg to some idiot unlicensed, uninsured driver looking at his phone on a right turn. Didnâ(TM)t even see my brother walking just plowed over him and then tried to run. Good thing he was so confused by his phone dropping and reached for it which caused him to hit a pole.

  37. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get everybody drunk before they drive so they won't be able to use their goddamn smartphones while driving.

    I got hit once while walking in South Florida. The driver was not on his phone but rather was making an illegal last-second turn, which happens all the time in the lawless state of Florida. But I did notice other times a lot of people would text and drive. Maybe 40-50% of the drivers on the 30 mph streets. Then I moved to California, and I saw far fewer drivers using their phones while driving. Now I live in the Netherlands. I never see anyone texting while driving, and I rarely see anyone holding their phone on a call while driving. Much safer here.

  38. Motorcyclist Perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a motorcyclist, the task is intrinsically dangerous, by some estimates I am about 34x more likely to die per mile driven than a person in a car. Accordingly, I am VERY aware of what other drivers are doing, and those most dangerous to me are the ones who are NOT PAYING ATTENTION. I'll take a drunk driver anytime over a kid staring at a phone. I have been driven of the road, into the center median at 70 miles per hour by a idiot staring at a screen on the expressway.

  39. Comparing polonium with cyanide... by ClarkMills · · Score: 1

    ...well I was going to say apples with oranges but it doesn't suit this site. They both negatively affect you, some people have a higher threshold for alcohol, some people have spare cycles to spare while doing multiple complex things. At the end of the day if you see someone weaving and jerking on the road then they are obviously over their limit and ability to drive safely and should be pulled up and straightened out.

  40. Not accident. Negligence. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If my wife or child were killed in an accident, I would be devastated. An accident is an accident.

    If I found out that it was the result of drunk driving or some idiot on a cell phone, then as far as I am concerned, it's not an accident. That person might find themselves getting really intimate with a wood chipper feet first.

  41. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by dryeo · · Score: 1

    Even rear-enders can cause injury. Shit, I barely got bumped once unexpectedly, my neck was achy for a couple of days. Others I know off suffered much more after being rear-ended.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  42. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by dryeo · · Score: 1

    Even when paying attention, I've almost hit pedestrians a couple of times. It's easy to miss something while trying to look everywhere, especially if there are blind spots, caused by passengers head or another vehicle.
    Pedestrians who blindly walk into traffic are asking for a Darwin award, even if they are in the right.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  43. Dumb Question by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

    They are both equally bad and dangerous. This is like asking, "Which is deadlier, death by hanging or death by boonga-boonga?"

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    This space unintentionally left blank.
  44. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 2

    Your abuse and/or ignorance of statistical analysis is staggering.

    Due to the nature of driving, many accidents are simply not preventable. Everyone is doing everything correctly, nothing in the cars fails, but accidents still happen. This is why people designing self-driving cars have to deal with the moral quandary of what the car should do when an accident is unavoidable.

    Accidents caused by drunk drivers are 100% preventable. It doesn't matter that they comprise a minority of overall accidents. Also, your assertion that 66% is the "vast majority" is an overstatement. This isn't politics. 2/3 is a significant majority, but 1/3 is also a significant minority. In fact, it is likely the largest single factor that contributes to car accidents. (With a bit of arithmetic, you can easily deduce it must be at least 1st or 2nd.)

    Why don't you ask some of the best predictive statisticians in the world about the significance of 30%.

    --
    Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
  45. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    Found the drunkie!

    The reason that they decided the accident was alcohol-related was that you were over the legal limit, and you're lying about that part of your story.

    Probably what happened is that your lawyer argued the test was unreliable, and you've been method-acting that story ever since. But no, you were not under the legal limit. That is why you got in trouble.

    You're probably even drunk right now!

  46. Self-driving cars don't get distracted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's to the all of the nutters who chime in at every opportunity to say self-driving cars are inherently unsafer and more unreliable than people live-streaming, texting, putting on makeup, eating breakfast, watching movies, drunk, high, or simply exhausted while attempting to pilot their 2-ton wrecking ball with little regard to others.

    1. Re:Self-driving cars don't get distracted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we would just argue that your self-driving car is really a fancy cruise control and does not have the proper sensors to fulfill the utility that was marketed to a certain company's moronic users.

  47. Phone Drivers are Way Worse! by I75BJC · · Score: 1

    Yes, Phone Drivers are [Way] worse [and more dangerous] than drunk drivers!

    There are more Phone Drivers on the road! And, the Phone Drivers are at all hours -- morning, lunch time, afternoon, evening, early morning. Drunk Drive are few and far between for me and are generally limited to late night and early mornings in my locale.

    The most horrifying sight is to look in my rear view mirror and see the driver or the driver and passenger texting away on their phones while their car is creeping toward my car. God, I avoid the times when local high schools let out and these types of misfit drivers are released in mass onto the streets!

  48. That's not at all the point of the argument. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're engaged in a red herring.

  49. Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you totally banned Alcohol, that would still leave 66% (the vast majority) of traffic deaths.

    What does "alcohol-related" mean, anyway? The driver was the designated sober driver ferrying his drunk buddies home? There was a six pack someone purchased on his way home from work? You had a pint an hour ago? What?

    I bet the number of people who drive under the influence regularly and yet never cause any problems is frighteningly enormous.

    Driving drunk is stupid, but it's objectively a scapegoat.

  50. Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I text or drive drunk pretty regularly and I have far more close calls texting than I ever do while drunk

    1. Re:Yep by beep54 · · Score: 1

      Remind me not to know you.

  51. Texting while driving is only part of it by thomst · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to the National Safety Council, texting while driving is by far the most dangerous way to use a phone while driving - but even talking on the phone distracts drivers so badly that they can miss up to half of hazards as important as red lights and pedestrians crossing the road in front of them.

    Note, too, that their tests have established that texting only while stopped at red lights still leaves drivers distracted for nearly half a minute after they put their phones down and resume driving.

    That's why I only use my phone for turn-by-turn navigation by voice when I'm behind the wheel - and I input my destination and start the directions before I leave my driveway or the parking space from which I depart.

    When I'm driving, I let all calls go to voicemail, as well, because none of them can possibly be as critical as the task of driving defensively. I take my responsibility for controlling a ton or more of mass moving at high velocity among other such vehicles (that I always assume are being driven by irresponsible cretins) as seriously as if my life, and the lives of my passengers, other motorists and their passengers, and pedestrians and bystanders depended on it.

    It's also the reason I merge onto highways at the current speed of traffic on that road - because entering a freeway at a lower speed than the vehicles already on it is dangerous. That's why I survey traffic conditions on the road I'm entering as I'm negotiating the onramp, rather than blindly assuming that the other drivers will courteously leave me room to merge and graciously adjust their own speed to accomodate mine.

    They won't.

    You should always assume that every other driver on the road is actively suicidal - and determined to take you with him. It's the only way to be even marginally safe.

    Other than taking off and nuking them from orbit, that is ...

    --
    Check out my novel.
  52. assault rifles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So cellphones kill more people by far then "assault rifles."

  53. Not surprising. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 0

    Groups like MADD are actually modern day prohibitionists. We now haveillegal levels at a point where a person actually isn't under the influence. But don't worry folks, if a Drunk driver kills you you re much more dead that if Chad kills you whie LoL'ing his friends.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  54. Wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you mean to tell me that people driving and not watching the road are a problem? Double check your math on that one buster.

  55. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by KingMotley · · Score: 2

    With a bit of arithmetic, you can easily deduce it must be at least 1st or 2nd.

    Not quite. It is common that an accident has multiple "related" issues (alcohol related, speed related, driving related, weather related, seat belt related, poor car maintenance related, etc.). As such, you can not deduce it must be at least 1st or 2nd. In fact, you can absolutely assume it isn't 1st, because 1st would be "driving related". 100% of all driving accidents are driving related, and 100% preventable by not driving.

  56. Weird by beep54 · · Score: 1

    Back in the day, I had to be REALLY comfortable with the car I was driving before I would even try listening to the radio.

  57. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    1/3 of deaths being alcohol related is terrifying.

    This factoid, in isolation, means nothing.

    How many people drive after drinking? If it is 1/3, then alcohol is having no effect on accidents. "Alcohol related" doesn't mean "drunk", just some amount of alcohol.

    There are about 30k traffic fatalities in America. If 10k are "alcohol related", that is about 1 for every 30,000 people. You are a hundred times more likely to die from heart disease. So exercise and a better diet will have way more effect than driving sober.

  58. Re: Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related by Lenny369 · · Score: 1

    No, he was correct. Alcohol related only means someone had alcohol in their system - not that it was a major or even minor factor in the crash. That also means the number of alcohol related accidents is inflated because of the simple fact that a drunk person stopped at a stop light is often found at fault in an accident, when the other sober person violates traffic laws and causes the accident. They say it's the drunk person's fault for simply being on the road. When in reality it wasn't. Happened to my cousin.

  59. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

    How many people drive after drinking? If it is 1/3, then alcohol is having no effect on accidents. "Alcohol related" doesn't mean "drunk", just some amount of alcohol.

    By that, I'm assuming you meant to say that if a third of drivers on the road have recently consumed alcohol, then it is having no effect. It seems unlikely that the percentage of drivers who have recently consumed alcohol is anywhere near that high, so it is pretty likely that alcohol caused some percentage of those accidents, though determining precisely what percentage is challenging.

    By contrast, only about 7% of fatal accidents in people under 35 test positive for THC. Yet about 13% of U.S. adults used marijuana in 2017. This suggests that perhaps pot smoking makes you a safer driver — probably because it's hard to have a fatal accident when you're only driving 5 MPH. :-D

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  60. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by dasunt · · Score: 1

    Who would ever expect a pedestrian would be in a crosswalk?

  61. Re: Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol relate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, he wasn't right. Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant. The legal limit is the point where they consider the danger to be so high that they will no longer accept your personal judgment on the matter.

    Having any alcohol in your system is going to impact how you drive and your reaction time to some extent.

    It's dishonest to suggest that it's arbitrary or inconsistent. The same thing happens if you're sleep deprived or appear to be distracted.

  62. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by dryeo · · Score: 1

    It would help if they stuck to the crosswalks and even then the city has added flashing lights to the ones in the middle of the block to help with the lack of visibility caused by parked cars.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  63. Re: Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is dishonest. Any amount of alcohol in your system is going to impact your judgment and reaction time to some extent. The reason why they call it alcohol related is that you can know for sure what would have happened without the alcohol.

    I'm practice the are always multiple factors that lead to a crash, suggesting that alcohol didn't play a role just because something else was the last straw is rather ridiculous.

  64. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

    We do not know the context in which the OP stated the 33%, so I took it at face value. You bring up a good point about multiple causes not being mutually exclusive.

    In fact, you can absolutely assume it isn't 1st, because 1st would be "driving related". 100% of all driving accidents are driving related, and 100% preventable by not driving.

    I disagree. We're already talking about car accidents, so that comes as a prior, and the goal of the analysis is specifically to discriminate that prior from other causes. Basically what you're saying is that car accidents are car accidents. True, but meaningless and uninformative.

    --
    Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
  65. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Crosswalk, right of way, you turning - yeah, those pedestrians are walking into traffic! You're 100% at fault in all States, guaranteed. If you're not sure it's clear - then slow down and confirm. YOU have the yield to pedestrians legally in the crosswalk. YOU have the ability to maim and kill. YOU are the only solution. Slow down, confirm. A few seconds won't kill you - but it could kill someone else.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  66. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by dryeo · · Score: 1

    I never mentioned crosswalk or turning, more like pedestrian stepping out from behind parked vehicle into traffic. Intersections are usually easy as you're moving slow though a pedestrian going against the light can still be an unexpected nightmare.
    And yes, on top of hitting someone, there's the legal shit.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  67. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Hit someone stepping out between cars, in the middle of the block? You're not going to go to jail...

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  68. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by dryeo · · Score: 1

    Still not good and probably need a lawyer and possibly witnesses to avoid the worst of the legal stuff.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  69. Re:Yes Stand at a busy corner and watch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can expect adults to not step out like that.
    You can't expect teenagers and children to do the same.
    So unless you think the smaller ones are irrelevant the only solution is that the one in the car has the responsibility to not run people over and if the sight is obstructed by parked cars they have the responsibility to drive slow enough to be able to stop anyway.

  70. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope. Been driving, texting, and talking for nearly 20 years. Zero accidents because I pay attention. But most people are idiots. Here's a novel idea though: stop with the pre-crime bullshit. If someone gets into an accident and they were on their cell phone, *then* charge them with a crime. Stop allowing the government to line their pockets when no one was harmed and no property was damaged.

  71. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, no. If you're doing something that is statistically very likely to cause someone death or serious injury, it's important to dissuade you before that happens. Stop being a selfish moron. The only thing you should be doing while driving is driving.

  72. Re: Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any amount of alcohol in your system is going to impact your judgment and reaction time to some extent.

    No. That is not how drugs interact with humans. Under a certain amount drugs will have no therapeutic effect (and over a certain amount they become toxic).

    So relatively small amounts of alcohol (relative to body mass, and your CYP2E1 gene expression, etc.) will have no impact on judgment or reaction time whatsoever.

  73. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    If Vito the Mobster kills Paulie the Snitch by drugging his scotch then shooting him, and decapitates him and puts him in the trunk. While driving to the new stadium to put him in the foundation, he stops at a red light. Gramps is on the same road. He falls asleep and hits Vito in the back. The police show up. The causes listed for the crash will be "Alcohol involved, speed related, and following too closely" The statistics are lies.

  74. Re:Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    Accidents caused by drunk drivers are 100% preventable.

    All accidents are preventable. But if I drive to the store, buy pretzels and beer, then forget to take the beer out. My sister drives the car tomorrow, and an old person falls asleep and runs the red, killing both. The beers will likely rupture in such a violent crash, so the "cause" on paper will be recorded as "alcohol involved" even with both drivers testing at 0.0% BAC. Open container and smells of alcohol are sufficient.

  75. Re: Only 1/3 of traffic deaths are Alcohol related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have definitely seen cars swerve into the bike lane with nary a backward glance. The last guy to do it was driving one-handed with his eyes on the phone in his other hand.