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Amazon and Google Fight Bill That Prohibits Secretly Recording You (vice.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the hear-hear dept.

An anonymous reader quotes Vice: On Wednesday, the Illinois State Senate passed the Keep Internet Devices Safe Act, a bill that would ban manufacturers of devices that can record audio from doing so remotely without disclosing it to the customer. But after lobbying from trade associations that represent the interests of Google, Amazon -- makers of the microphone-enabled Google Home and Alexa smart speakers, respectively -- and Microsoft, among other companies, the interests of big tech won out... In its current, neutered form, the bill provides exclusive authority to the Attorney General to enforce the Act, which means regular citizens won't be able to bring forward a case regarding tech giants recording them in their homes.
Ars Technica notes the move comes after Amazon admitted thousands of their employees listen to Alexa recordings -- "something not mentioned in Echo's terms of service or FAQ pages."

Vice points out that sometimes those recordings are shared "even after users opt out of having their data used in the program."

56 comments

  1. and in the trump universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is supposed to be a bad thing? or no? barr? spying bad?

    1. Re:and in the trump universe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erste pregunta

  2. Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does this prevent people from opting out by not buying these devices, not using these devices, and not allowing these devices in their homes or places of business?

    1. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by darkain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You mean like your cell phone? Because these have always-on listening capabilities too, now. How about laptops with built in microphones? It is seriously getting harder and harder to NOT have these devices, and that's the point of passing laws.

    2. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have chosen an individualist, market oriented approach to combating surveillance capitalism.

      Here's why it won't work:
      Atomized individuals in aggregate, lack the requisite variety to match a global mass surveillance apparatus so vertically integrated with the state.

      Other notes:
      Sleep well little sheep. Everything you love will burn to ash.

    3. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is seriously getting harder and harder to NOT have these devices

      No, it is not harder to NOT have these devices (don't buy them, don't use them). It is, however, getting more attractive to have them than not. That is how it always starts, as you don't realize you are living inside the surveillance state until it is too late.

    4. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's literally a telescreen
      BUT
      It's also a market commodity (with nice aesthetics) so that's ok.

    5. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How does this prevent people from opting out by not buying these devices, not using these devices, and not allowing these devices in their homes or places of business?

      Wrong question.

      How does this prevent people from being recorded without their consent when they do not buy or own these devices, and yet damn near every home and place of business does.

      Let's wake up to the real issue; the majority of citizens own these fucking things, and don't care about your privacy.

    6. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by DogDude · · Score: 1

      You mean like your cell phone?

      Yes. You're not required to use a cell phone, believe it or not.

      How about laptops with built in microphones?

      If you're running Windows or Linux, or OSX, you have control over your own microphone on your computer.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    7. Re: Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha. U mean the free version of Windows 10 that they give u? Don't believe it, u ARE the product

    8. Re: Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pliers work well for permanent disablement of camera's and microphones.

    9. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sue. Recording audio on private property without consent of the owner or occupier thereof is Trespass.

    10. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      How does this prevent people from being recorded without their consent when they do not buy or own these devices, and yet damn near every home and place of business does.

      We already have wiretap laws for that and if they will not protect you, neither will these.

    11. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will not buy any IoT spy devices, including these voice recording systems. As to my laptops, I can disable the microphone and camera easily. Cameras get covered with black electrical tape. Microphones get disconnected from the motherboard. My flip phone does not have GPS, and is mostly kept in a shirt pocket. If I really want to be private, I can remove its battery.

    12. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Tape over a webcam. Don't buy any always on microphone product.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    13. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already have wiretap laws for that and if they will not protect you, neither will these.

      Absolutely. This political posturing is merely an attempt to prop these crown corps up as long as possible. They are the enemy of the people, and if there were any justice in the world, people like Eric Schmidt would find their heads in a guillotine.

    14. Re: Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by javaman235 · · Score: 2

      Youre not required to have a car either, but the state still has the power to protect consumers of cars with things like safety laws that specify design. Remotely recording customers without their knowledge or consent is insane. Of course it should be illegal.

      --
      -The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
    15. Re: Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by javaman235 · · Score: 1

      Youre not required to have a car either, but the state still has the power to protect consumers of cars with things like safety laws. Remotely recording customers without their knowledge or consent is sleaze.

      --
      -The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
    16. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a choice with cellphones. You know who you call, and expect them to listen. Others listening is illegal wiretapping - and carry heavy punishments.

      As for smartphones, you have choice too. Don't install anything with voice commands - voice commands are for fools who cannot even press buttons, and you look stupid repeating orders to a phone that didn't hear you properly over the ambient noise. Avoiding always-on microphones is easy enough.

      If you worry about laptops, get a librem with the hardware killswitch for mike+camera. Malicious apps can't get around a hw switch. Uninstalling sound drivers is another cheap trick. As always, stay away from anything microsoft.

    17. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turn the tables.

      Always-listening mikes are a surface of attack. At the lowest level, you just mumble "Siri/Alexa, order 200 pizzas" now and then. To the detriment of anyone with such a device nearby. At the hacker level, play messages hidden in various ways. Too low for people to notice. Or modulated/noise added so people hear the noise but a microphone filtering out "uninteresting bands above 10kHz or so" will get the message.

      Order the devices to do anything to embarass owners (or make them sue providers). Order them to transfer money to your gang. Or just order them to turn themselves off for that microphone-free zone around you. Or change language to Finnish.

    18. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buy a cell phone on which you can install your own OS and have at least some control over it.

    19. Re:Opt out by not buying and using these devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virtually EVERY product has a microphone, sometimes for ''environmental' reasons these days. It tries to establish what environment it's in, even a thermostat....

  3. Eavesdropping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Shouldn't Jeff Bezos, Sundar Pichai, and other managers at Amazon and Google face jail time already for their crimes?

    1. Re:Eavesdropping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't Jeff Bezos, Sundar Pichai, and other managers at Amazon and Google face jail time already for their crimes?

      Jeff "Dick Pic" Bezos will just escape in his dick shaped rocket that goes nowhere!

    2. Re:Eavesdropping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't hold your breath. The wealthy are immune from prison until 2020.

    3. Re:Eavesdropping? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      There was a case on Slashdot a few years ago where someone had a camera and microphone in their porch, which they used to record the police. They were charged under wiretapping legislation. I don't know what happened to the case in the end, but if they were successfully prosecuted then I can imagine that Bezos and Pichai would be liable for a few million counts of the same.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Eavesdropping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you have any electric chairs left over there?

    5. Re:Eavesdropping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guillotine is better, at that point, cephalectomy is the only sensible surgical action.

    6. Re:Eavesdropping? by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Difference:
      Bezos and Pichai are rich.
      The guy who recorded the police, not.

  4. Google will bribe Congress. by WCMI92 · · Score: 2

    And this bill will quietly die.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
    1. Re:Google will bribe Congress. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And this bill will quietly die.

      We need to somehow convince big telco and big cableco that this bill helps to go against net neutrality, then they'd out-lobby both Google and Amazon to get it though.

  5. National bill, please by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's nice to see individual states trying to step up and pass this sort of bill, but I can't see those laws being very effective. This has to be a national effort, and an issue in the 2020 election. Politicians respond to pressure, and I'd like to see every Democratic candidate asked about this issue at town halls and debates.

    I don't think it would matter if Donald Trump was asked about it, because, honestly, what are the odds of him giving a coherent answer, and what are the odds of his answer mattering one little bit anyway? You might as well ask my 8 year-old labrador retriever.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:National bill, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He will give an answer that satisfy his supporters. Would a federal privacy act be a high priority for those supporters? I suspect that answer is no for at least a generation of voters, unless a new way of looking at the constitution is somehow assimilated within the US legislative bodies within their current term.

    2. Re:National bill, please by qwerty+shrdlu · · Score: 1

      But it would be fun to ask Trump about Jeff Bezos wiretapping people's homes. His answer is sure to be full of sound and fury.

    3. Re:National bill, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      lol. democrats are king of spying on people...

      even spied on the next president.

    4. Re:National bill, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I knew there'd be a typical inane Trump Derangement Syndrome nugget in your post. You cuck useful idiots can't help yourselves can you? Suck that glass dick!

    5. Re:National bill, please by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Trump's derangement has an impact on a lot of things.

  6. rode my bike uphill without pedaling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    30mph+ warm breeze ride.. no gadgets. it is possible to turn those things off? cease fire stand down.. there's moms & babies in every town.. truth+mercy=justice.. conspire to occupy the truth..

  7. So page scrolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    open client code and or local firewall tarpit, I won't lie the web is ahead of this but apps have a problem.

  8. That is not already illegal? by gweihir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because in any sane legal system, it is.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:That is not already illegal? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Not for the ads?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  9. Did they at least call ii the "Big Brother" Act? by Grog6 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Someone to claim us, someone to follow
    Someone to shame us, some brave Apollo
    Someone to fool us, someone like you" - Bowie

    âoeBig Brother is Watching You.â

    âoeWar is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.â

    âoeThe best books... are those that tell you what you know already.â

    âoeNow I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.â
    â George Orwell, 1984

    Truth isn't Truth. - Rudy Giuliani, speaking of Trump's Lies to America

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  10. Doesn't make sense by jetkust · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Didn't they already consent to being recorded by buying a device that's entire purpose is to record them?

    1. Re:Doesn't make sense by pauljlucas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Didn't they already consent to being recorded by buying a device that's entire purpose is to record them?

      No. It's right there in the summary (emphasis mine):

      ... the move comes after Amazon admitted thousands of their employees listen to Alexa recordings -- "something not mentioned in Echo's terms of service or FAQ pages."

      There's a difference between Amazon recording you for the purpose of Alexa (a computer program) listening to those recordings and employees (humans) listening to those recordings --- the latter is not disclosed.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    2. Re:Doesn't make sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of Googles products is "Nest Secure" an internet connected security system that a few months ago was updated to directly support voice commands. Until then the microphone in it wasn't listed on any page of the product documentation.

    3. Re:Doesn't make sense by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      Except the summary is patently false.

      It is in fact very clearly outlined in the service agreements for Alexa - JUST AS IT IS FOR Siri (Apple), Google (Assistant) Microsoft (Cortana). It is also very clearly labeled how to opt-out, although it will out of necessity make your experience WORSE because if recordings can't be learnt from then the service will go nowhere.

    4. Re:Doesn't make sense by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
  11. And so, of the four US political parties ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

    ... comprised of Republicans, Democrats, Evangelical Christians and Capitalists, chalk one up for that last one.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:And so, of the four US political parties ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, but sad.

  12. Pass the bill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Secret recordings are eavesdropping

  13. PRIVATE companies are doing this, not Big Brother. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PRIVATE companies are doing this, not Big Brother.

  14. You mean the US Govt doesn't use pvt Co's? by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    Like Halliburton, or the one Ollie North ran to bring in all the cocaine that started Regan's Drug War?

    Lol.

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  15. Just say no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To anything from Amazon or Google.
    Don't buy anything from Amazon.
    Don't use any Google service
    Block them at your firewall (if you have one that can do that)

    They are both EVIL and at the moment poor incarnations of Big Brother but they are trying hard to win the race to worldwide domination and therefore control of everyone.

    I stopped using Google over 6 years ago and have weaned myself off of Amazon so that now they are only used as a last resort. So far this year I've spent exactly $0 with them and hope that it stays that way.

    They want to control every aspect of our lives. Don't let them win.

  16. Summary is false and misleading by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    "something not mentioned in Echo's terms of service or FAQ pages."

    Actually, it is.

    It is also in the TOS and FAQ for Cortana, for Google, for Siri. It is how these services work.

    It is also easy to opt out, although that will make your experience suck because then the system can't learn about you.