Slashdot Mirror
Be Inc. Selects Cygnus Solutions GNUPro Tools
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contacts: Becky Wood DiSorbo (408) 542-9667 bwood@cygnus.com Sara Killingsworth
(602) 961-1515 saralk@home.com
CYGNUS GNUPRO TOOLS POWER BE OPERATING SYSTEMCygnus Solutions Delivers Software Development Tools that Increase Stability and Performance of Be, Inc.'s Media Operating Systems
SUNNYVALE, Calif., January 19, 1999 - Cygnus( Solutions today announced that Be(, Inc. selected Cygnus GNUPro software development tools for the recently shipped Release 4 of the Be Operating System (BeOS*). GNUPro(, the leading compiler and debugger toolchain for native and embedded development, provides BeOS developers with the software development power to work at maximum efficiency, and an open-source code base for greatest flexibility during the design cycle. According to recent tests conducted by Be, GNUPro tools performed 20 percent faster than other software development tools. More detailed information can be found at link "An operating system is nothing without good development tools. Giving our developers the best possible tools to work with helps them to create the fastest, most groundbreaking applications," said Scott Paterson, director of Marketing at Be. "As a leader in open-source software development technologies, Cygnus GNUPro enables Be developers to benefit from improved performance and a broader tool chain, which results in rapid innovation and high quality software." GNUPro provides a single-source toolchain for easy portability and maximum code reuse, and supports more than 125 host-target cross-development environments, covering the vast majority of the most popular host-target platforms. "Providing Be with Cygnus' GNUPro tools is further evidence of the increasing platform success of GNUPro and of open source technologies," said Scott Petry, vice president of marketing at Cygnus. "Cygnus ensures that open standard software development technologies, including GNUPro, are the most powerful resources available for commercial development."
About GNUPro
GNUPro includes ANSI-conforming C/C++ compilers, a macro-assembler, the Cygnus Insight( visual debugger, binary utilities, libraries, and broad support for Windows NT/95 and UNIX hosted toolkits. Users benefit from Cygnus' premier software engineering, availability of tools for a wide range of processors, stringent
testing (more than five million controlled and documented tests against each host-target combination) and custom enhancements.
Cygnus delivers GNUPro through an innovative subscription model that includes regular software upgrades, featuring the latest innovations in GNU technology, as well as mission-critical support services for rapid response and resolution of technical questions or problems. Pricing for a five-user team starts at $7,495 and includes a one-year subscription. For more information on GNUPro pricing and the more than 125 host-target cross-development environments supported by Cygnus GNUPro, contact Cygnus corporate headquarters in Sunnyvale, Calif. at 1-408-542-9600, 1-800-CYGNUS-1, info@cygnus.com, or visit the Web site at link
About Be
Be, Inc., founded in 1990 by Jean-Louis Gassée, is a software company focusing on building new foundations for the next generation of digital content and media design tools. With a team of industry-leading engineers and business executives in the United States and Europe, the company is dedicated to removing the limitations of existing computer architectures and delivering a new level of price performance.
In December 1998, Be published Release 4 of the Be Operating System (BeOS), the core product of this strategy. Additional information on Be and the BeOS is available online at link Be, Inc. is headquartered in Menlo Park, California.
About Cygnus Solutions
The market leader in software development technologies for computing applications, Cygnus( Solutions offers build-time and run-time solutions based on an open-source model. From GNUPro( Toolkit to eCos(, the Embedded Cygnus Operating System, Cygnus' open-source and royalty-free software benefits system developers in a wide variety of market segments, including consumer electronics, Internet, telecommunications, office automation, networking, aerospace and automotive. Cygnus' products, custom engineering services, and world-class support services enable developers to bring products to market faster at reduced system development costs.
Founded in 1989, with headquarters in Sunnyvale, California, Cygnus has sales and engineering offices throughout North America, Japan, and the United Kingdom.
Cygnus GNUPro Powers BeOS Page 2
*Cygnus and GNUPro are registered trademarks, and Sourceware and eCos are trademarks of Cygnus Solutions. Open Source is a Certification Mark of the Open Source Initiative. All other company and product names are trademarks of their respective owners. "
Over $7000 for a 5 user compiler license.
egcs already exists for Be and is free. This is only for those who want the IDE that GNUPro offers.
Does that refer to compile-time or the speed of the compiled program? If it's just compile-time, then it doesn't matter that much.
Can somebody recommend be a good IDE and debugger?
(vi/emacs and gdb is not what I mean by that)
BeOS is good but their product is NOT OPEN SOURCE, so therefore it is CRAP.
Same goes with this compiler. It's not OPEN SOURCE so it must not be any good...
Didn't BeOS Central have this announcement like 3 months ago? Or is this something different? I heard they were movving to gcc and all that... perhaps /me needs to do some more reading.
I think I missed something. When did Cygnus go scum? Not only did they start making completely proprietary software, they also put 'GNU' in the name. It's like the GNUhoo thing. This pisses me off. It's slimy, and its false advertising.
Before anyone tells me to lighten up, I will... AFTER I bitch about this.
Slashdot rules... but this posting sucks. I expected maybe a *link* to the PR, not a Constitution-sized insert of a commercial press release. I expect this kind of stuff from MSNBC...
Besides, Be's dead. Someone should branch WINE into a version that translates BeOS stuff. You wouldn't even need to support PowerPC, because their commitment to PowerPC dropped the second Apple took back Steve Jobs. Be could have been cool, but it's 4 years too-late and Linux is gathering momentum much faster...
Also, whatever happened to using Metrowerks CodeWarrior?
I'm an ordinary user.
I have a Pentium 200 with 64MB of RAM on an Intel Tiger-Eye motherboard, complete with 2GB hard drive, Mitsumi 24X CD-ROM drive, HP 7200i 2x/6x CD-RW drive, 16MB 3D Blaster Banshee PCI video card, SoundBlaster Live! Value PCI audio card, and a generic 56K PCI modem.
I use a variety of software: MS Office 95 for word processing and home budgeting and other tasks, Netscape 4.05 for web browsing and e-mail, Forte Agent for newsreading and heavy-duty MP3 downloading, Winamp for MP3, VQF and MOD/S3M/XM/IT playback, Cakewalk Home Studio 6.0 for MIDI composition integrated with multitrack digital audio, Cool Edit 96 for audio mastering and editing, MP3 Compressor for MP3 encoding, various Adaptec packages for CD-R burning, and MAME32 to play all of my favorite classic games.
When another OS supports all my hardware, has software mature enough to handle all of my required tasks as I've listed above, and is simple enough for an ordinary user such as myself to grasp, then I'll care. Mac requires purchasing a new machine. Linux requires endless tinkering for which I don't have time. BeOS software support just isn't there yet. OS/2 and Amiga are at best hobbyist platforms on life support.
Does that mean Big Bad Bill is winning? For now, yes. Show me a true alternative at a good price, and I'll sign up...
Why does (the average) slashdotter seem to hate Be more than they hate Microsoft?
/.ers were complaining was missing in R3. Their user base has swelled dramaticly as a result--some of my clients are even using it now.
Whenever there is a Be article, we seem to get the same posts:
1) Be is evil because it's not OSS.
Does that mean non-OSS Linux apps are "evil"? Face it, there is room in the world for OSS and commercial software. No one is demanding that all software be commercial, so why demand that it all be OSS? Stop being a slave to your ideology and leave room options that meet other people's needs.
2) Be is "dead"
Well, I guess it's ok to call such comments about Linux "FUD," but when they're used against Be, it's just "the truth"? Needless to say, this is a stupid thing to say after they just released R4, which is the best release yet and fixes most of the things
3) Linux is all we need
Linux may be all *you* need, but many of us like more than one option. BeOS is lean and mean and easy to use. It makes an excellent *complement* to Linux. If you've all decided that Linux is the only solution you'll ever use from now to eternity, maybe you should rename Slashdot to LinuxDot "News for Linux users" and be done with it.
Until then, this nerd would like BeOS coverage to continue, minus the posts from mindless repetetive knee-jerk OSS ideological warriors.
i know alotta 'linux nuts' maybe present the
issue of what OS u use as important.. but
there are alot of linux ppl who dont give a shit
what OS you use, and dont want you to 'come over
to the linux side' , ESPECIALLY if it DOESNT HAVE WHAT U NEED.
to have ppl use linux just to use it is stupid, pepl use computers
to do things, and if linux doesnt do them theres no reason to switch and if someone REALLY cares they will write a program to do that thing.
however, all the great programs come from a user writing a program to suit her own needs, and then having alot of other people
come and add to it.
anyways l8r.
Be is evil because it's not OSS. Does that mean non-OSS Linux apps are "evil"?
free clue: apps != OS. non-OSS apps are, ofcourse, undesirable, but can be acceptable if there's no Free alternative. you're still in control of your system. with a non-open OS, you're not. the higher up the non-openness, the worse.
HTH.
> "Why does the average slashdotter seem to hate Be more than they hate Microsoft?"
One could say "The best is the enemy of the good", but that's not it, exactly.
Thus ..."
> 1) "Be is evil
No, Be is not evil, it's irrelevant. Hype about Be amounts to hype about yet-another Microsoft wannabe. Attention to Be is just wasted if it could be going to strengthen our stable software foundation.
> 2) "Be is dead"
Be is not dead -- they have *lots* of money. If you can get some of it from them before they go poof (in three years, maybe) then _go_for_it_! Their loadable-module interface is more-or-less compatible with Linux's, so if you can get them to pay for driver development it is not wasted.
> 3) "Linux is all we need"
Be advocates like to say that BeOS is complementary to everything -- MS, Mac, Linux -- as a way of avoiding confrontation. They maintain, based on no published evidence, that it's the fastest SMP system around. They pretend it is "more modern" than other systems. Really, though, it brings nothing new, and only steals efforts better placed with a system that cannot itself be stolen.
Objections to BeOS hype on Slashdot are not knee-jerk. Slashdot is supposed to be for announcements of actually-cool stuff, not for wannabe-cool stuff. BeOS is very much in the wish-it-were-cool-but-aint category, and although Be, Inc. has lots of money to spend on hype, paid hype can't buy cool.
I tried BeOS R4 on my old pentium 200 (previously running winblows). They are not kidding about it's speed--I don't notice that it's "just" a pentium 200 because I didn't have to wait for anything! Even when 10 apps are going and I run out of RAM and start using swap, I noticed virtually no slow down--the system "snaps." I don't know if the file system has changed from the compiler changes, but it is so fucking fast. I can query the entire hard drive in under a second or two (hd is 8 gigs, with 1 gig in use). It's painful to boot back into windows...so I'm slowly migrating to BeOS.
1) Hmm funny your title actually contradicts your first point. Slashdotters complaining about Be NOT being OSS proves they are not ideological hypocrites - the ideology of GNU says precisely that ie all software must be free. I hope your not confusing the meanings of free - Open Source if you prefer.
Being a slave to an ideology is a different manner. I think you'll find that while many OpenSource advocates don't demand EVERYTHING be free they do want the OS and the underlying interface to be FREE. I think that this is a pretty fair demand considering the forum ;-)
2) This does seem a little unfair on other OS's. I think most people are interested in other OS's - it's probably just a reaction to long years out there on the fringe. Most people aren't against other OS's - though I suppose I am a little sceptical of another COMMERCIAL OS getting much minstream following while being closed source, seems a little of a step backward!
3) No argument with you there. Linux is ALL I need, but that may not be so for others. I guess one thing you can do is NOT react to mindless invective (I often type out slashdot posts and then delete them to re-type something more positive) and instead EDUCATE us. Post what is good about BeOS when that is suitable!! I'm sure that some of the commentary is just lack of knowledge - and while interested I have too much to do with one OS let alone others, I am sure that is true of many.
When will people get it through their head that almost all of what Cygnus ships is Open Source. Geez, talk about people not engaging the brain before speaking. Check the facts first folx.
and if they are not other brands which provide
the same functionality exist.
Endless tinkering?
No I haven't tinkered (config files) with my Desktop at all
since installing KDE.
I have tinkered with some free programs like
The Gimp that cost suckers like you hundreds
of dollars in Windows land.
The ultimate tinker that suckers like you
have to perform endlessly is "Format. Re-install."
Your toy operating system breaks and you waste
hours on end wondering why it doesnt work or
re-installing it when it breaks.
99% mindshare? Hahaha...
Ahh.. here we go back to all the linux vs be shit again eh. The thing I find amusing is how unsecure slashdot readers are. Maybe it was all the time being classified as a nerd put them to being defensive about everything they have not tried. Its not my damn fault Gnome and KDE are pretty shitty excuses for a GUI.. to be fair, they are mearly noting better than win3.1 with extended theme options...
Going from BAD to not so BAD..
:)
Eventually you'll discover Linux
(right afer you discover that Be, Inc. is just another M$ wannabe i.e. have you by the balls, once you're stuck with their proprietary API)..
It seems to me that there are two types of responses to any post about Be 1 from people who have actually used it and the other from those who haven't.
Almost all of those who actually have used it have good things to say. As for those who slam it as "dead", "irrelevant", "a Micro$oft wannabe", or (gasp) "not OSS" should give it a try and THEN get an opinion. (and in the mean time shut the F**K up, theres nothing so boring as a blowhard who doesn't know what hes talking about)
This OS rocks in terms of performance and useability it blows everything else away (including linux). For me the only way to go is Be on the desktop (and for development) and linux as server (and also some development.
So you're the arbiter of "ordinary uses"! We've been looking for you!
Read the Cygnus web page, and try to find a download for the Insight Visual Debugger provided with GNUPro. It's not there. Cygnus started off as a free software company (hence, cyGNUs). Right now, other than eCos, the only software they make that's free or open is that which is based on the FSF's GPL code. Otherwise, the stuff looks pretty proprietary.
...is lack of hardware support. I would be more than willing to give ti a try if it only supported my hardware. (last I checked, it doesn't support my CS4237B-based soundcard...):
Eventually he'll discover Linux and the speed demon we all call XFree86, and then he'll probably throw himself or his computer out the window. If for some odd reason that doesn't happen, he'll probably want a decent desktop environment, and he'll discover the oh-so-memory-efficient KDE (or GNOME, which is just as bad). Then he'll notice that the performance of X has droped from slightly below that of windows, to slightly below Windows on his old 486 (unless he has 64+ MB of RAM). Then, of course, he will realize the errors of his ways and never boot into Be again.
(Golly, I never tire of skipping the entire software and hardware arsenal of someone's machine. However, there are those who seem to find it therapeutic to write down everything they know about their computers.)
You apparently have never used one of the easy-to-install Linux distributions, e.g. Redhat. While Redhat has drawbacks to the sophisticated user and the free software purist, it does not require "endless tinkering." On the other hand, in my experience Win98 has required more tinkering and reinstalls than any person as busy as you should have to go through.
However, you seem to be stuck with that tinkering burden because you require certain applications which only run on Win95/98/NT. Well, you win some, you lose some.
Oh, by the way, you'll find that OS/2 is used primarily by businesses, not hobbyists. As a result of which there's more life left in it than one might think.
Yeah, X windows is just the ticket to turn an outdated machine into a speed demon. Not.
Before you tell me to mind my own business, I will... AFTER I tell you how silly your imagined magnificently forceful word selection is.
Unfortunately what is obvious to virtually everyone has totally escaped your ken; namely, trashy talk adds nothing to the legitimacy of your viewpoint or to the eruditeness of your reasoning. On the contrary, it exposes you as a jerk. Go brush your teeth and take some alka-seltzer.
>>3) "Linux is all we need"
>Be advocates like to say that BeOS is complementary to >everything -- MS, Mac, Linux -- as a way of avoiding
>confrontation...
You kind of ignored the guys point. He didn't say Be was better at everything, while you say Linux *is* better at everything. Well, from experience, I can easily say that as a workstation, graphics box, or just general purpose desktop OS, Be kicks linux around the block when it comes to ease of use, speed, and damn, I just love watching pulse on my dual PII system as the pervasive multithreading makes the system skate on ice.
That said, there's no way I would use it as an ISP server, web server, file server, or print server. Linux is a fine server OS, but trying to turn it into the premiere desktop OS is, when you come right down to it, a complete kludge. The OS is ancient. BeOS is designed from the ground up. Linux just cannot compete for the workstation market.
So, can't we all just get a long? Be on the desktop, Linux on the server. Heck, you can even remote mount the Linux box with the NFS file system plugin, or use the Linux X apps with the Be VNC client. There is no need for these stupid fights. Both systems rock, but in different areas.
A happy BeOS R4 AND Debian 2.1 user
try it.
chill.
spelling flames are strictly from hunger, and capitalization flames are worse. you write coherently, so you're clearly not an idiot. i really can't see any reason for you to behave like one. why flame the kid? he won't listen anyway.
I'd love to try Be -- it has a lot to offer, and the desktop interface looks Amiga-derived enough to actually be useful -- but the hardware support is nowhere even close to me.
It doesn't have the video support I need, nor the SCSI support (on the other hand, neither does Linux... the WD719x driver project seems to have died some time in the middle of last year).
The only thing that I find surprising about Be is that it doesn't seem to have hooks -- or use hooks, if they exists -- for hardware accelerated 3D. This is incredibly surprising given its bent towards being a "media OS." It's forgivable under Linux, where no such claims are made, but might be a source of concern with Be.
It's the speed of the $$$$ flying out of your wallet ...
Be completely rebuilt the base of BeOS for R4 Intel. The comparisons were made between the Metrowerks IDE on BeOS R3 Intel and egcs on BeOS R4 Intel. BeOS R4 is already approx 20% faster anyway.
An amazing GUI front-end for gdb/dbx
The tooltips in the GUI are way cool. Rivals Visual Studio.
I agree with each and every point you made. It seems that the "if it's not Linux, it's crap and you're a moron and your momma sucks!" attitude has turned Slashdot into a Linux-lovefest. I've almost (not quite) gotten to the point of not reading this site anymore because it takes too much time to get to the diamonds in the rough.
If you believe in freedom of choice amd cutting-edge technology, then cut BeOS some slack. Otherwise, keep working to make Linux the next monopoly OS with its fragmented programming APIs and difficult installation procedures (just to point out a few disadvantages of the platform) and some other OS will come eat your lunch. Speaking from experience with both OSes, the BeOS really is nice and has tons of potential.
Hi,
I'm a happy linux user for 3.5 years now. I'm just curious
as to what Be offers that you can't have with linux.
I hear it is so fast - is it faster of more responsive than
linux?
I bet YOU haven't even tried GNOME and/or KDE lately... Go away troll
I bet YOU haven't even tried BeOS lately.
Recently, I have tried Linux with both GNOME and KDE. Compared to the BeOS, they simply don't compete. First, X and any of the window managers are too complicated and/or time intensive to configure for all but the most technical of users. Second, they simply don't have the GUI performance that the BeOS does. Finally, and perhaps the biggest concern I have, is programming any GUI application for Linux is problematic. The APIs are just horrendous. The most portable solution is still X, and I'd rather cut chunks out of my penis with nailclippers than live that life again! The BeOS API is clean and well-thought out. I love it.
humor is in the eye of the beholder. at any rate i fail to see what he was satirizing. not that it's a major issue either way . . . if i overreacted, i apologize.
. . . and i will briefly suspend my objection to spelling flames wrt my *latin* spelling, 'cause it's probably bad enough to be worth a flame or two . . .
I just bought a new Dell Dimension XPS R400 with an STB nVidia TNT graphics adapter. I was pleasantly amazed that every device in my computer works with the BeOS (ok, the roller ball on my mouse doesn't, but I hate that little thing anyway). No SCSI, though. Personally, I think SCSI is a little over blown these days (let the flaming begin!)
Uh...maybe you should read the FAQs over at Be. Officially, PPC support for for future releases of the BeOS is questionable, considering Apple's `refusal' to release specifications of the new G3 Macs' motherboards. BeOS is commercial, and developing/maintaining an OS for `one-off-generation' hardware doesn't make much sense for a company the size of Be.
Unofficially, I think they are just being fatheads WRT Apple. I just don't buy the `technical issues are keeping us from supporting the new Macs' argument. I don't know how much support the LinuxPPC team received from Apple, but if they can get it to run on the new G3s, why (again) can't Be?
While this may be pure speculation (my favorite kind), I honestly think that they developed their hardware and OS around the PPC first and exclusively for the sole purpose of being absorbed by Apple. Remember what they said WRT to RISC vs. CISC, MP vs. SP, etc.? That all went out the door once they realized that they could make some money by selling BeOS to end-users, who are more likely than not going to have single-processor Intel boxes, if anything. Once Apple acquired NeXT and Intel threw some money Be's way, that sealed their fate as a PPC developer; now they're x86 also-rans. Be is a good company to have around (because, if for only one reason, they are not Microsoft), but they are out of the PPC game as far as OSes go.
Be is just another proprietary software company. Their main product is completely incompatible with Windows. Do you think everyone is going to switch to BeOS overnight, or for that matter, in less than 20 years? And if everyone did switch to BeOS, do you think they'd be any different from Microsoft?
BeOS may indeed be technically superior. But it is not Free Software. Thus, it can't beat Windows. Linux, OTOH, is Free (beer and speech) and that is why Microsoft is running scared. All Linux has to do is get *good enough* - not as good as Windows necessarily, but good enough to appeal to 90% of the computer audience - and that, in combination with its low price will ensure that it can beat Windows.
Most people won't spend extra money for software that's a *little* bit better than what they already have. That's why BeOS will always be a niche OS, and why people will never upgrade from Linux to Windows again once they've switched...
Uhm, what the fuck are you talking about? There was never a time without a non-commercial UNIX: ever heard of AT&T letting universities have UNIX? And the BSD project?
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
GNUPro is still Open Source. Users pay for Cygnus support, NOT the tools. The tools can be had from ftp.cygnus.com.
What version of gcc is this based on? I remember working with GNUPro a couple of years ago. It was great because all of the most recent C++ improvements were incorporated into the tools LONG before the official gcc team was able to make a release. It let me get my work done. This was pre-egcs and was one of the triggers for the egcs project.
Amen, the more competitors we have, the better. That's capitalism -- may the best product win. .. And I have faith that the best product will win, and if it should fall behind, then people will not use it. simple as that.
The GNU tools sold by Cygnus are free software. (I do thing they produce some proprietary things now, but it is a very small part of their portfolio). The money is to pay for support and upgrades.
Apparently you are not aware that the majority of the GNU development tools (egcs, glibc, etc) are largely developed by Cygnus and/or its employees. They have donated a huge amount of code to the free software community.
As for whining not accomplishing anything, you are absolutely right. Unfortunately you were the one who was whining.
If you want people to move from Windows to Linux, you have to offer them alternatives to the software they're using now. Asking them to just quit doing those activities won't hack it. It should go without saying, but calling them names really won't hack it.
I think this whole war against Microsoft attitude people have is a mistake, but that's just my opinion. I'm sure you have your own. Keep this in mind, though. If your only response to someone who points out your weaknesses and the opponents strengths is personal attacks, you've already lost.
and if they are not other brands which provide
the same functionality exist.
That's not the point. People are not going to go out and spend money replacing hardware just because Linux doesn't support it. If my video card doesn't work in Linux, I'm not going to buy a new one, I'll just wait until Linux supports it, or else not use Linux at all.
No I haven't tinkered (config files) with my Desktop at all since installing KDE.
So how exactly did you get Linux installed, or get a kernel compiled? Hell, XF86Setup doesn't even auto-detect my video card or monitor specs.
I have tinkered with some free programs like
The Gimp that cost suckers like you hundreds
of dollars in Windows land.
I've tinkered with some free programs like The GIMP on Windows too. Apparently you're new here, or you would've heard about the Win32 port of GIMP.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I find this becoming an ironic, and unfortunately all too common, event on Slashdot recently - the troll who yells "troll!!!" at everything he sees.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Posted by Soco:
Does that sound familiar... Haven't we heard this one before?
Posted by Pepi:
DDD is an excellent debugger if you don't want to be bothered with the details of gdb.
I can highly recommend Slickedit as an IDE, very very nice product. It's fast, stable, loads of features, etc.
Posted by Wayne Steele:
I've been using/following Linux for years. One thing that's starting to bother me is how its advocates are sounding more like Microsofties all the time.
The fact is that Linux is a great OS and does a lot of things (especially in server space) very well. But it is not and never will be all things to all people.
The recent arguments I've seen used against BeOS are EXACTLY the same ones the Windows crowd has been using against Linux for years.
Guess what? The Windows crowd was/is wrong!
Linux fans all over the world ignored the FUD and in a very short period of time have turned Linux into a stellar platform. I think Be, Inc. and its developer community deserve the same chance with BeOS despite its commercial origins.
I also think BeOS DOES bring some fresh meat to the table. Start with a solid client/server architecture, SMP that works, a clean set of OO API's, a very nice 64-bit File System, a consistent GUI, and free development tools. I concede that none of these ideas are new, but rarely do you find them all in one place, implimented so well, with an easy installation process to boot.
So give Be a chance. If it doesn't interest you, then simply ignore it. I, for one, am a Linux advocate who thinks this small company in Menlo Park, CA is doing a GoodThing(tm).
Posted by Wayne Steele:
Hardware support will come in time. Don't forget that Linux went through the same growing pains at one point.
The fact is that hardware makers cater only to Windows these days. That means it takes time for any of the "alternative" operating systems to incorporate support.
Besides, a lot of the hardware support in Windows is nothing more than a bad joke. It often takes just as long to get a STABLE driver on Windows (if such a thing exists) as it does on anything else. The only difference is that the Windows users had to go through a bunch of updates (and maybe a FORMAT C:) before they had the support they needed. We just had to be patient and wait a little longer.
Have you looked in gIDE or Code Crusader? Look for 'em on Freshmeat.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I hate all flavors of Unix.
I like Be. It is fast and stable (its GUI kicks the snot out of XFree86, that's for damned sure).
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Look, BeOS is interesting, and commercial. You even contridicted yourself in your first sentance, "it's good...it's crap"
Personally, I would love to try out BeOS, and for that matter, QNX. But I can't afford it, so I won't be trying it.
Which brings me to my point, opinions are like a^H^H^H^, everyone has one. What will really matter is how the market treats the OS. Is price a factor? You bettcha. You think Linux would be this popular if it were say, $400 a pop, with $25 per user licence tacked on?
If it's worth the price, someone will pay it, if it's not, it will die. Then, there will always be people like me that just go with what they can afford and try to make the best of it... ;-)
BTW, your troll is sooo far off base. You ever really benchmarked preformance of apps with open source versus commercial compilers? I have seen quite a few comparisons between open source and commercial C and Fortan compilers, and believe me, some people out there pay the money, and are glad to do it for good reason.
Anybody know which version of EGCS this refers to? I'm particularly impressed since graph-colouring for register allocation is patented by IBM and therefore cannot be used in EGCS, while Metroworks might have a license for it. It's important for register poor architectures such as the x86. How does EGCS get around this?
I bet YOU haven't even tried GNOME and/or KDE lately... Go away troll!
/. has become so bad lately. I wish that people could learn to control their mouths (fingers) a little better sometimes. It would make the world a better place.
Replys like this are the reason why
Cygnus is probably the oldest provider of *Open Source* commercial software. They maintain egcs and release it under GPL. What that $7000 buys is the sort of support that makes PHBs feel all warm and fuzzy inside - better than the support you'd get from most vendors, i might add. The pricing reflects Cygnus' primary market, which is commercial Unix developers. In that rarified world, compilers always cost that much. And, given the effort involved versus the size of the market, it makes sense. Microsoft charges what, two grand for a copy of Visual Studio Enterprise? And they'll move hundreds of thousands of copies.
Don't worry about that $7000. If you're not selling your software for money, you can get the tools for free. And if you want to run quality Open Source development tools at work, it's a lot easier to convince the PHB to pay $7000 than it is to convince him that free tools could possibly be as good as the $7000 stuff!
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
If Cygnus is scum because they use GPL software to make money, it means also Sendmail and Red Hat is scum too.
Besides, BeOS Release 4 comes with a full-featured, free compiler called EGCS (Pentium-optimizing GCC). This port was developed by Cygnus for Be, Inc., AFAIK.
I hate to say it, but idiotic generalizations and misinformation are crap.
First of all, the compiler *is* open source. It's based on gcc and therefore *must* be. It's the development environment that may not be. However, as was previously mentioned, Be has included an IDE based on Metrowerks product bundled with R4, and it uses gcc for compiling.
Second, didn't you just contradict yourself? You called BeOS both "good" and "crap" in the same sentence. I'd love to hear justification for the crap statement, but I fear that you might have trouble sorting out some personal issues on your own opinions.
Just because there are many non-OSS projects that aren't overly great doesn't mean that all OSS is crap. Every company or individual should have the right to choose what license or terms to release their product under, otherwise you lose another freedom.
If you don't have some moral\social\personal problem against using a product that is based on Motif (but works excellently under LessTif), I'd suggest checking out Data Display Debugger (DDD) for a debugging solution. I've found it fairly useful while sorting out problems.
Scary for a home user bu nothing in the corporate scheme of things. ;-)
---- Backwards compatible -- If it's not backwards it's not compatible
Hey look all of you slashdot guys.
Write code.
Linux is a great OSS OS with a lot of kewl features and lots of great plans ahead. I have been using Linux for years, but it for the average user at home with Win95, it is still easier to use the programs they know under that and install programs than under Linux.
Do your part. BeOS is easy to install and is simple to use. Help out with GNOME or other projects like KDE and make Linux worth using for not just yourself, but for other users out there who know less than you.
-Alan
-- Man was created on the seventh day when god was tired. --
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
What he said sounded like a troll, but think about it. Commercialisation of any OS surely will lead to a monopoly. Whether the monopoly will necessarily be as evil as Microsoft is an open question, but there's no reason for it not to be.
The only hope for the future of computing is for proprietary OSs (libraries, basically) not to exist. Any standalone product is probably OK, but as long as you can wield monopoly power, someone will.
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
heheh... there is no Banshee PCI cards just AGP.
Let me guess... this is a troll.
"Think of it as evolution in action."
It would be great if there was a C/C++ IDE for linux out there. I work with Visual C++ 6 alot, and the IDE is actually quite good. IMHO it is one of the few solid products that M$ offers. XEmacs with gdb just doesn't cut it for me.
...therefore YOU must be crap.
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
Well, I'd just like to say I haven't seen anything like the BeOS since the Amiga days with its crowd.
People find developing for the BeOS to be very euphoric. Out of all the C++ APIs out there, its probably got the least amount of "base class fragility" in it. The whole API is threaded out the wazoo, and the "responsiveness" of the system is testament to how well the light processes work when used with a proper process model. I know that they are the first to bring to market a system with as much evolution in the OS. And I really don't have to know jack about deadlocks/staravation to make a multithreaded app.
And it doesn't stop just there. The file system is actually designed to not just store files, but also metadata about those files for the user to use.
And what about the BeOS developer community? They are an active bunch who do things like write drivers, port Mozilla, and write all sorts of software to make their experience better. And Be is thier in their cathedral, taking the BeOS in the direction of their vision, while being actively involved in assisting the developer community and incorporating their needs into that vision.
BeOS developers don't fuss about not having the source for their software. They know that, right now, they are the ones who make the BeOS a success. And Be treats them like gold as a sign of that respect.
That's the situation right now, and that's the only thing that really matters. All else is speculation. I use GNU/Linux and feel like information should be free, but I repsect the autonomy of Be Inc. to choose whatever liscense they please.
It amazes me how so many people can comment
on Be who have not run it.
My initial introduction to Be was at a macworld
a few years back. Being the weenie I am, I like
to break demo systems by pushing them a bit.
So I walk up to the BeBox (dual 603e at the time)
and go, "well this looks nice, but does it really suck less?", and start up a few demo apps.
I eventually find a movie and start it up.
Plays nice at full screen, but im wondering if
this new OS can deal with memory management and
scheduling.
So I start up 10 more windowed ones.
To my amazement they all run simultaneously
with NO slowdown.
At this point the demo guy walks over and scoffs
"Thats ALL you can do?" and proceeds to start
up about 40 more.
Observe my evil grin as they not only run
but run fast! I swear if I had the money to
fork out for one of those boxes I would have
singned up on the spot.
Try that in windows, or Linux (heh xanim),
or anything other then a highend SGI and tell
me what happens. (As if you dont already know)
Moral? Dont knock it till youve tried it.
Chris
this 31337 abbreviation used around? (I'm not a native English speaker. Guess it some slang?)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
But it is not Free Software.
Well, yes and no. The OS is (as has been exhaustively researched) not Open Source, nor Free as in Beer. But there are many apps that have been made and are being made for Be that are both Speech and Beer. And the demo CD is pretty cheap as far as Beer goes.
All Linux has to do is get *good enough*...
Ah, the clarion call of the mediocre. Now THAT'S a standard to strive for. I understand your point that "Even though Linux rocks ass, it wouldn't even need to, to beat Windows, since it's free" but you seem to be giving Linux the short end of the stick with your point.
And I laugh out loud thinking of my next trolling response (in this forum) to:
Most people won't spend extra money for software that's a *little* better than what they already have.
Response: Good thing Linux is free, then.
And it's also the reason that BeOS will explode beyond its niche. Because it easily beats Windows for price/performance. Hardware support is coming along nicely (it's The Big Priority), and apps are beginning to pop up all over the place. It's a fun place. And we'd love to have you stop by sometime.
Work is for people who lack the imagination to play.
Is this what we'll see in the future for client/server apps and corporate LANs?
Maybe that's what the folks at Be have in mind.
The gIDE project for GNOME looks very promising. I think the url is http://gide.pn.org
The real question is: Why would any Windows users want to use the Gimp when they can use Photoshop 5, which makes the Gimp look like a bad joke? I guess it's nice that Windows users actually have that choice, though.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
I have to say this:
BeOS is *mainly* free, compared to other OSes (besides linux), has saved me and many others quite a bit of money. Be isn't dead and Linux isn't dead. I'm willing to shell out $10,000 instead of $50,000.
Just a little logic.
John Hancock ->
I have to say this:
BeOS is *mainly* free, compared to other OSes (besides linux), has saved me and many others quite a bit of money. Be isn't dead and Linux isn't dead. I'm willing to shell out $10,000 instead of $50,000.
Think about it, people make GOOD products because THEY can invest money in new technology, THEY can find a better use of intelligence. Just a reminder, parallel ports came out in the 70s. Linux still can't handle USB. Thats OSS for you.
Just a little logic.
John Hancock ->
CodeWarrior is still the toolset that Be includes for doing development on PowerPC BeOS machines.
Of course, the way things are currently heading, it looks like the PowerPC machines will be a declining percentage of BeOS machines.
I would've like to see Be use a more recent version of CodeWarrior's x86 compilers for the BeOS, but then again, I'm biased.
Mark
didnt you get, hes got everything he wants in windows ?
im sure youre one of those windows users, who realized theres something out there called linux
which is kewler than windows and are now bashing on windows in favor of linux without knowing anything of it. are you a developping hero ?
or just a downloader ?